Personally I'd rather they spend time updating or adding a new attraction/chemistry/relationship system (then new flirting animations) that is more realistic then simply clicking 3 buttons over and over until that total stranger is woohooing my sim in the bushes...
It seems to me that OP has a specific (personal) view of what "masculine" and "feminine" are, and that may not be universally the same.
Even though Sims is an American game and thus based in many American traditions and behaviours, which do seem more polarised when it comes to gendered behaviour, it is also trying to cater to the rest of the world.
So really, the key issue would actually be how to define what OP is asking for without using the word "masculine", since it may mean different things to different people.
Personally, the animations never bothered me for reasons others have expressed; they are cartoonish and funny. The whole concept of flirting and wohooing in the game is in itself very unrealistic, so I don't expect my Sims to behave like real life humans. More variation would be great, for the sake of having my Sims behave more in line with their general traits. I'd love for my butch lesbian to be really awkward at flirting and my romantic straight male Sim to be over the top, for example.
You make an astute point! Masculinity and Femininity are quite different, and perceived differently depending on the culture you are speaking about, so defining the two is quite difficult, especially when it's a concept created from societal pressure towards males and females to act in their stereotypical fashion - The man has to act in this way, and the woman in the other way.
The definition of the word should be the same though. The perception is what is different.
Masculine personality traits can go with any gender as can feminine. But the definition of the word is the same.
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Chip Sorris is one of my latest. He is more likely to tear your arms off if you get in his face! He is a strong tough type, but not overly emotional except when people get in his face and has a hell of a temper. Now it would be silly if he started doing flirty animations. However if he ended up in a relationship with a female sim, he is more likely to protect her from harm as he'd want to impress her with his masculinity.
Charles Schwindt is on the opposite end of the spectrum. He gets very emotional and likes to carry on in that flirty pose as it suits his character. He is a homosexual and married to another man. He has more femininity to him than you would expect.
Robin Angeles (Bethany's new wife) is very feminine even if her dress sense hints at a masculine personality trait. Robin doesn't wear dresses and the like, she prefers a straight up casual approach to herself.
Claire Manderbrook has more masculine traits than any of her sisters and even her brother, she dresses as such. She loves all those things guys love, sports, drinking beer and having a good time with the guys and being competitive with them. Claire dislikes that her sisters are in her opinion a bit naive about the world because of their feminine traits.
Charles and Claire are telling that they don't follow typical behaviour and it can happen as much in the real world as well.
I just hate the interaction where the man jumps in the woman’s arms and not the other way around. Very unrealistic.
Well I’ve played the Sims for yearsssss, so I guess I’m just used to this by now? But there were always a couple of animations that were suited more to females, you just switch Sims and they switch animations..? Simple, usually the one doing the flirting has more “masculine” animations. I think it’s more of a saving of resources/laziness situation, rather than some nefarious agenda to feminise all male sims lol We already know by this point TS4 is far less bulky than previous games, so it’s not surprising they ditched seperate animations (if they’ve ever really been a thing?)
Plus hello, it’s the Sims, When has this game EVER been about “realism”?? 👀 i get the whole “it’s my game, my rules etc” speech, but this game has Santa Claus and cow plants. I don’t understand where these “realism” players come from??? Like sorry huns you’ve walked onto the wrong set lol
Don't know about flirting, but I'd like for guys to have more guy specific interactions. I want my male sims to watch a sports game with their friends, root for a team, and swear etc stuff like that.
Don't know about flirting, but I'd like for guys to have more guy specific interactions. I want my male sims to watch a sports game with their friends, root for a team, and swear etc stuff like that.
The bro trait??
In practice the bro trait is really annoying, no matter what is happening on a lot if you have multi sims with bro traits they will keep moving into the same "corner" and just chatting or standing. Its rather annoying because it will literally break or override other actions just to do this until a sim needs to go to the washroom or eat.
I would like some animation updates, but I'd prefer the animations not to be different according to sim gender, but more dependent on personality. The idea of matching flirting to walk styles was really good, as both guys and girls can be shy, confident or flirty flirts irl, independent of their gender or sexuality. The same goes with actions like sport watching, which I don't want to see coded based on gender either.
Don't know about flirting, but I'd like for guys to have more guy specific interactions. I want my male sims to watch a sports game with their friends, root for a team, and swear etc stuff like that.
The bro trait??
In practice the bro trait is really annoying, no matter what is happening on a lot if you have multi sims with bro traits they will keep moving into the same "corner" and just chatting or standing. Its rather annoying because it will literally break or override other actions just to do this until a sim needs to go to the washroom or eat.
Bros being annoying by ignoring everything else to talk to each other about sports? Probably the most realistic thing that happens in The Sims! <-- JOKE
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Bros being annoying by ignoring everything else to talk to each other about sports? Probably the most realistic thing that happens in The Sims! <-- JOKE
Honestly when I first really tried to implement the bro trait into my gameplay, I was hoping they would do something like this. More or less act like a clique or stand around talking about hobbies or simply mingle together. In practice though what they often would do is break any interactions they have even if its chatting with another bro and walk off to (what often appears) a far off corner and simple stand there without any form of interaction.
It almost looks more like a bug effect. It would have been cool instead if say your at a venue and sims with bro traits would seek each other out and provide social bonuses when they interact instead of just pushing them into a corner where they aren't allowed to talk.
So really, the key issue would actually be how to define what OP is asking for without using the word "masculine", since it may mean different things to different people.
Why go to all that trouble? It’s a perfectly good word and it fits what the OP is asking for.
Definition: having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness.
What you are defining here is a societal norm. I personally don't associate those qualities with men, unless they are violent and abusive. The men in my country are generally not aggressive or even particularly forward when flirting.
Again, I think Sims4 in general needs more varied types of animations that can be used for different types of Sims of any assumed gender.
Well it doesn't bother me that much because some flirty animations look more suited for men and some flirty animations look more suited for women and you are free to mix them however you want.
Well it doesn't bother me that much because some flirty animations look more suited for men and some flirty animations look more suited for women and you are free to mix them however you want.
Don't know about flirting, but I'd like for guys to have more guy specific interactions. I want my male sims to watch a sports game with their friends, root for a team, and swear etc stuff like that.
The bro trait??
In practice the bro trait is really annoying, no matter what is happening on a lot if you have multi sims with bro traits they will keep moving into the same "corner" and just chatting or standing. Its rather annoying because it will literally break or override other actions just to do this until a sim needs to go to the washroom or eat.
I like the bro trait because it actually changes a bit of a sim's behavior. That's what I want to see with every trait. You can always tell when a couple of bros greet each other.
Also, there's a lot of things that break conversations or override actions. It's not just the bro trait. Teens showing a video, a celebrity (anywhere), suddenly needing to drink 5 gallons of water, washing hands, etc, etc.
I haven't really experienced that "chatting in the corner thing". I'll have to mess with my game and see what happens.
Well it doesn't bother me that much because some flirty animations look more suited for men and some flirty animations look more suited for women and you are free to mix them however you want.
Does the woohoo fist bump fit both?
I literally smh every time I see that. They totally go overboard with some behavior and completely ignore others. lol
Oh, well. I'll continue to enjoy my games. Eye rolling and all.
Don't know about flirting, but I'd like for guys to have more guy specific interactions. I want my male sims to watch a sports game with their friends, root for a team, and swear etc stuff like that.
The bro trait??
In practice the bro trait is really annoying, no matter what is happening on a lot if you have multi sims with bro traits they will keep moving into the same "corner" and just chatting or standing. Its rather annoying because it will literally break or override other actions just to do this until a sim needs to go to the washroom or eat.
That's like an Aussie BBQ, all the guys down one end, and the girls up the other end! It happens
I like the bro trait, too.
Omg the whole entirety of relationships and flirting in this game needs a serious overhaul in general.
It really does. Flirting in general is completely broken.
For example: If you are playing a sim and their spouse, and are sitting at a restaurant table and a another sim approaches and starts flirting; even if the the sim you're playing rejects the advancement, your spouse will still consider it flirting on your part and get sad or angry.
I actually wish the flirting was more subtle. I wonder why there isn’t a simpler flirting animation where a sim leans in and whispers something on the down-low. Kind of like the whisper sweet nothings animation, but subtler and not requiring a romantic relationship. The wave and the blown kiss is too silly.
"Silly" is the focus purpose of this game. I've often heard SimguruRomeo laugh at the features and call them silly with a joyfull smile, and lately SimguruGrant was asking himself (on a tweet) what silly feature could be added to this game?
Too bad silliness overcomes deep and fully developp gameplay. The animations are also very ordinary to say the least. I like the game but it could have been so so much more. I hope they'll wake up before the end of it.
I forgot to say, the first kiss animation is so…not cute. It tries to be cute but it’s just sad, not even awkward. It’s not even just about men anymore, but all around every sim. They look like hapless kids, not even teenagers with a shred of forethought or confidence, so YA and Adults look silly.
The Sims 4 is not just a simulation of real life, it is also a parodic simulation of real life. So the actions and reactions are supposed to be unrealistic, mayne even unsettling. If we're looking for totally realistic human behaviour, maybe we're looking for a different game.
That said, I would love to have more romantic animations where different kinds of gender and sexual identities can be expressed, even if the touch of silliness remains.
"Express Fondness" is a solid interaction without any silly animation. It improves Romantic relationship like Flirt. Choose your interaction to reflect how you want your Sim to interact. "My big, burly MAN with two Y chromosomes don't do that SISSY STUFF". Well, fine. Tell him to do something else.
Flirtation in the Sims breaks from reality because it has to meet certain in-game needs. 1. It needs to be communicated nonverbally. Already this contrasts with the real world, because often flirtation is subtle, contextual language choices. 2. It needs to be visible from a moderate distance, so you can identify what is happening from the standard isometric view. Again, there are few sincere flirtatious gestures that are so "theatric," especially ones Americans would consider masculine. 3. It's designed to be a "ranged" activity in this game, so sims can complete it whether they're on opposite sides of a room or standing next to each other. There are other romantic gestures that are more realistic because they involve touching or getting close.
I would also like to point out that The Sims is a high-tech dollhouse. If you're a straight guy playing it you are inherently checking some of your more rigid definitions of masculinity at the door.
Comments
The definition of the word should be the same though. The perception is what is different.
Masculine personality traits can go with any gender as can feminine. But the definition of the word is the same.
Chip Sorris is one of my latest. He is more likely to tear your arms off if you get in his face! He is a strong tough type, but not overly emotional except when people get in his face and has a hell of a temper. Now it would be silly if he started doing flirty animations. However if he ended up in a relationship with a female sim, he is more likely to protect her from harm as he'd want to impress her with his masculinity.
Charles Schwindt is on the opposite end of the spectrum. He gets very emotional and likes to carry on in that flirty pose as it suits his character. He is a homosexual and married to another man. He has more femininity to him than you would expect.
Robin Angeles (Bethany's new wife) is very feminine even if her dress sense hints at a masculine personality trait. Robin doesn't wear dresses and the like, she prefers a straight up casual approach to herself.
Claire Manderbrook has more masculine traits than any of her sisters and even her brother, she dresses as such. She loves all those things guys love, sports, drinking beer and having a good time with the guys and being competitive with them. Claire dislikes that her sisters are in her opinion a bit naive about the world because of their feminine traits.
Charles and Claire are telling that they don't follow typical behaviour and it can happen as much in the real world as well.
Well I’ve played the Sims for yearsssss, so I guess I’m just used to this by now? But there were always a couple of animations that were suited more to females, you just switch Sims and they switch animations..? Simple, usually the one doing the flirting has more “masculine” animations. I think it’s more of a saving of resources/laziness situation, rather than some nefarious agenda to feminise all male sims lol We already know by this point TS4 is far less bulky than previous games, so it’s not surprising they ditched seperate animations (if they’ve ever really been a thing?)
Plus hello, it’s the Sims, When has this game EVER been about “realism”?? 👀 i get the whole “it’s my game, my rules etc” speech, but this game has Santa Claus and cow plants. I don’t understand where these “realism” players come from??? Like sorry huns you’ve walked onto the wrong set lol
The bro trait??
In practice the bro trait is really annoying, no matter what is happening on a lot if you have multi sims with bro traits they will keep moving into the same "corner" and just chatting or standing. Its rather annoying because it will literally break or override other actions just to do this until a sim needs to go to the washroom or eat.
Bros being annoying by ignoring everything else to talk to each other about sports? Probably the most realistic thing that happens in The Sims! <-- JOKE
Honestly when I first really tried to implement the bro trait into my gameplay, I was hoping they would do something like this. More or less act like a clique or stand around talking about hobbies or simply mingle together. In practice though what they often would do is break any interactions they have even if its chatting with another bro and walk off to (what often appears) a far off corner and simple stand there without any form of interaction.
It almost looks more like a bug effect. It would have been cool instead if say your at a venue and sims with bro traits would seek each other out and provide social bonuses when they interact instead of just pushing them into a corner where they aren't allowed to talk.
What you are defining here is a societal norm. I personally don't associate those qualities with men, unless they are violent and abusive. The men in my country are generally not aggressive or even particularly forward when flirting.
Again, I think Sims4 in general needs more varied types of animations that can be used for different types of Sims of any assumed gender.
Does the woohoo fist bump fit both?
I like the bro trait because it actually changes a bit of a sim's behavior. That's what I want to see with every trait. You can always tell when a couple of bros greet each other.
Also, there's a lot of things that break conversations or override actions. It's not just the bro trait. Teens showing a video, a celebrity (anywhere), suddenly needing to drink 5 gallons of water, washing hands, etc, etc.
I haven't really experienced that "chatting in the corner thing". I'll have to mess with my game and see what happens.
I literally smh every time I see that. They totally go overboard with some behavior and completely ignore others. lol
Oh, well. I'll continue to enjoy my games. Eye rolling and all.
That's like an Aussie BBQ, all the guys down one end, and the girls up the other end! It happens
I like the bro trait, too.
Enjoy my creations!
It really does. Flirting in general is completely broken.
For example: If you are playing a sim and their spouse, and are sitting at a restaurant table and a another sim approaches and starts flirting; even if the the sim you're playing rejects the advancement, your spouse will still consider it flirting on your part and get sad or angry.
It's just stupid and It's a broken game mechanic.
"Silly" is the focus purpose of this game. I've often heard SimguruRomeo laugh at the features and call them silly with a joyfull smile, and lately SimguruGrant was asking himself (on a tweet) what silly feature could be added to this game?
Too bad silliness overcomes deep and fully developp gameplay. The animations are also very ordinary to say the least. I like the game but it could have been so so much more. I hope they'll wake up before the end of it.
That said, I would love to have more romantic animations where different kinds of gender and sexual identities can be expressed, even if the touch of silliness remains.
1. It needs to be communicated nonverbally. Already this contrasts with the real world, because often flirtation is subtle, contextual language choices.
2. It needs to be visible from a moderate distance, so you can identify what is happening from the standard isometric view. Again, there are few sincere flirtatious gestures that are so "theatric," especially ones Americans would consider masculine.
3. It's designed to be a "ranged" activity in this game, so sims can complete it whether they're on opposite sides of a room or standing next to each other. There are other romantic gestures that are more realistic because they involve touching or getting close.