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Carl's take of ways for improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O41yW6qlOIM
Still watching before finishing. Hopefully it touches and goes over the popular things players find frustrating or boring about gameplay. Other big Game Changers name Sim to be touching issues either over furniture, builds or clothing. Which really, it isn't where the main issues lies in TS4.
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Comments

  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    I posted on that vid about an hour before I saw this here.
    Was that you that gave Unconsciouzone the thumbs up?
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 20,525 Member
    edited October 2019
    I was coming to find a thread to add his video to. :D
    Its cool that it has its own.
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  • PegasysPegasys Posts: 1,135 Member
    Yes, yes yes. I watched the entire video and agree completely. Carl outlines very clearly what is missing and ideas for improvement.

    I've loved this game, but I'm afraid with the lack of depth (gameplay challenge, consequences, uncertain outcomes) I've getting to (or already reached) the point where I've outgrown it. New DLC does pull me in for a while, but after exploring the new, it's that feeling where there's no excitement about playing. Sigh...
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 3,351 Member
    It's interesting.

    I'm new to the Sims 4, don't care what Sims 1-3 were like, and really get tired of seeing people compare the games. I enjoy playing my Sim family every evening before bed. I have personalities and stories for each member - sometimes including the pets. With the exception of lag (mostly due to playing a large-ish family in a large house with lots of stuff... my bills average 125k per week, and that's with them being cheated down to 25% via MCCC) nothing he mentioned gets in the way of my play.

    And yet I agree completely with everything he said, in that the sims 4 could use improvement in all those areas, and I would welcome those improvements.
  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    DaWaterRat wrote: »
    It's interesting.

    I'm new to the Sims 4, don't care what Sims 1-3 were like, and really get tired of seeing people compare the games. I enjoy playing my Sim family every evening before bed. I have personalities and stories for each member - sometimes including the pets. With the exception of lag (mostly due to playing a large-ish family in a large house with lots of stuff... my bills average 125k per week, and that's with them being cheated down to 25% via MCCC) nothing he mentioned gets in the way of my play.

    And yet I agree completely with everything he said, in that the sims 4 could use improvement in all those areas, and I would welcome those improvements.

    I agree as well. Unfortunately we are very much in the minority for a couple of reasons, resistance to change being chief among them.
    Because the Sims is a legacy game, different people entered at different eras of the experience.

    Every iteration has a very loyal following, but it's impossible to get everyone to agree on one aspect or another based on their own personal filter.
    That's not a bad thing. The heart wants what it wants and there's no harm in asking.

    But if you spend any amount of time here, pay attention to the way they ask.
    You might find it enlightening.
  • FelicityFelicity Posts: 4,979 Member
    I think the one thing he left out is memories. And I'm not talking the nonsense "memories" that is in the Sims 4 which is a screen shot with a mood attached (is that even still in the game?). But I do think all the things he mentioned could vastly improve the game.
  • bixtersbixters Posts: 2,299 Member
    edited October 2019
    Thank you for making a thread about this video! I think he did an excellent job of explaining all of the problems in the Sims 4. Even if you love the Sims 4, you have to admit that at least some of his points are valid. I hope Maxis/ EA are listening!!!
  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    He's hit the nail on the head. I hope they listen, and his changes/improvements are not too far out there or unreasonable and they mirror what a lot of us have been saying/thinking for awhile now.
    Origin ID: Peapod79
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited October 2019
    And yet, Maxis sees absolutely no problem.... probably because they are still getting that hot revenue.
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  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,470 Member
    Im glad he made the video. Hopefully EAxis will make the needed changes there was a time when I enjoyed the game and now it's become hard as I feel a lack of depth when I play.
    "Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
  • Paigeisin5Paigeisin5 Posts: 2,139 Member
    I totally agree with everything he said in his video. I hope EA/Maxis sees this. The whims, traits, friendship and romantic relationships...none of those have any meaning to the Sims. All of it is being drowned in emotions. Emotions that often have nothing to do with whatever our Sims are doing or should be feeling during traumatic situations. There are no consequences, only rewards, and that doesn't challenge us as players. The solution lies in giving us a difficulty option we can control that he proposed as a possible fix. I'd love to see that implemented. Tone down the craziness in the emotions so they don't override everything else. Thanks for posting his video @DragonKat159. Everything I have thought is wrong with Sims4 was just validated, and I was not wrong in feeling the game lacks depth on many levels.
  • ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 2,103 Member
    I like Carl, because he's quick to point out flaws in the new packs. I totally agree with him here as well. We need more base game overhauls over anymore new stuff.
  • telemwilltelemwill Posts: 1,752 Member
    I agree that something is missing from the base game. I enjoy playing my Sims, and they are different for me because of how I imagine them. I am more of a storyteller so I am happy, but still it could be better.

    I particularly agree that traits should be more meaningful. And his suggestions for overhauling emotions and whims are right on. I use Meaningful Stories and that alone makes a big difference, but it is not enough by itself.

    I think the most recent aspirations which are just walk throughs of the new packs are not in depth enough. I don't want every aspiration to be extremely difficult since I would like teens to be able to finish one before adulthood, but there should be some that are truly lifetime goals.

    I don't have a problem with too much money. Maybe since I play rotationally, I haven't had long enough for most of my families to become wealthy. I do wish there were pieces of art that cost 50,000 simoleons or more for when I do save enough to fulfill the dreams of my mansion barons.

    He didn't mention family play, but I think attention needs to be given towards making each of the lifestages more unique. The game has done well with toddlers and adults, but babies, children, teens, and elders need more development.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Interesting video. I don't think adding more dull grinding is going to make the game more difficult, but rather than just another dull chore to do with the work from home and achievement system, so I have to strongly disagree with him on that. It is not what made Sims 1 or 2 challenging. What made them challenging was having a failure system. Sims 2 achievement system was honestly the best and so were the wants and fears. The memory system too was very detailed. Sure these systems still could use improvements, but it saddens me Sims 4 hasn't tackled them even four years later.

    There was a wise quote in Aladdin that said, “There is not enough money and power on earth to be satisfied.” Focusing on just these two things is the Sims 4 main problem and why Simmers are so unhappy and why society is so unhappy too. I agree about the need for student loans and scholarships. I want the Sims 4 to be an actual life simulation game and teaching kids about the realities life even with college will benefit them. I know if it wasn't for the Sims 2 financial system with university I wouldn't have been inspired to attend and it helped teach me even with failure I could complete and pay off all my student loans which I did. University is a premium school and with how much drama that is going on in the entertainment industry about rich parents paying for their kids to get into good schools, if university isn't handled with tact and reality, there is going to be bad consequences from the community on that for example what happened with Lori Loughlin.

    I do agree that money is extremely easy to come by. Whims and traits feel useless to me too. I would like a toggle for the difficulty however like he suggested. For me sandbox isn't about following a single path but several of them. Sims are more than just dolls to me. I don't like to imagine them doing things. I want them to be apart of a life simulation game, not a Barbie doll game. I miss when careers let you risk for losing the job. If careers are tampered with, I want the goals to be more social since a lot of jobs these days depend on how social you are now. The core of the first Sims game was social goals, skill goals, and risk of unemployment. It would help make challenges more interesting too instead of depending on some sort of dice system to input failure into the game.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • CamkatCamkat Posts: 2,329 Member
    I often focus on the problems with the sim's personalities and lack there of that I forget I do agree and think money is way too easy in this game. My gardener sims never go broke and they just have to put in a couple sim hours in the am if you grow the right plants. Never really met any millionaire gardeners before...

    Every single sim family, end up with loads of cash despite my best efforts sometimes, you almost have to cheat money out to get them to be poor. I wish burglars were in the game just so I'd have a reason to re-buy something again and spend some of the money.
    Origin ID: Peapod79
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited October 2019
    The answer doesn’t lie in what can be done to this game, it lies in what can and will be done in the next. Sims 4 = Sims 4 and Sims 4 will always be Sims 4. People seeing it the way described in the video indirectly are just saying this: stop developing for Sims 4 and start developing Sims 5, using our suggestions. And please don’t just listen to gamechangers suggestions, also listen to paying customers that, in spite of not having a huge YouTube following, most definitely are committed to the franchise.
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  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited October 2019
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    The answer doesn’t lie in what can be done to this game, it lies in what can and will be done in the next. Sims 4 = Sims 4 and Sims 4 will always be Sims 4. People seeing it the way described in the video indirectly are just saying this: stop developing for Sims 4 and start developing Sims 5, using our suggestions. And please don’t just listen to gamechangers suggestions, also listen to paying customers that, in spite of not having a huge YouTube following, most definitely are committed to the franchise.

    I understand what you are saying....but I do believe this game can still be updated to be much better and fully enjoyable, the devs just have to want it. A game is a game, it's code, they can add an entirely new wants system to this, they can at least make it work better and change what makes whims pop up, they can make relationships deeper, they can improve the AI, etc.
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  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,896 Member
    Although I don't think this video will cause a change to Maxis has been delivering from five years. I only think if other yibs follow the wagon to make a video about flawed gameplay over whiteshelf or misplace fruit bowl in a kitchen, maybe EA can do changes when these 'cheerleaders' give a voice as a collective mind. Though even then, I have trouble believing in this miracle being start on and be finalized. Felt like I now express every word on the forum, that I feel I done my job here. Now it's, and was, Maxis duty to compile or continue doing with TS5 of bringing lackluster game experience to the player's enjoyment. I just left this thread as possibly my final one, just to invoke dead-beaten discussion over the same thing Maxis doesn't even try on bringing. From now on, it will be entertaining which 🐸🐸🐸🐸 will hit the fan hard and causes it drop. Everybody has a temper, and at some point you can break it that somebody will start giving you 🐸🐸🐸🐸. There will be a point, as I said before, you tamper the water pipes or keep maintaining them with replaced word-down leaking ones. There will be a moment where it will flood the employers house, and they will not be happy and contain their emotional control forever.
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  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited October 2019
    Although I don't think this video will cause a change to Maxis has been delivering from five years. I only think if other yibs follow the wagon to make a video about flawed gameplay over whiteshelf or misplace fruit bowl in a kitchen, maybe EA can do changes when these 'cheerleaders' give a voice as a collective mind. Though even then, I have trouble believing in this miracle being start on and be finalized. Felt like I now express every word on the forum, that I feel I done my job here. Now it's, and was, Maxis duty to compile or continue doing with TS5 of bringing lackluster game experience to the player's enjoyment. I just left this thread as possibly my final one, just to invoke dead-beaten discussion over the same thing Maxis doesn't even try on bringing. From now on, it will be entertaining which plum will hit the fan hard and causes it drop. Everybody has a temper, and at some point you can break it that somebody will start giving you plum. There will be a point, as I said before, you tamper the water pipes or keep maintaining them with replaced word-down leaking ones. There will be a moment where it will flood the employers house, and they will not be happy and contain their emotional control forever.

    That misplaced fruit bowl makes the whole kitchen unusable, it's object placement 101. The world buildings/lots also count for a better or worse game experience, especially when we are talking about an AAA game. It's not to say there are other, perhaps more pressing issues that also need to be voiced and pointed out, but it's still a problem nonetheless.
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  • DragonCat159DragonCat159 Posts: 1,896 Member
    edited October 2019
    It's good to mention it, but they make as if the only and main pinnacle problem. Besides, it seems like GC seem to be showing only that when packs are announced: build mode and CAS. Live mode takes always a back seen when they suppose to do a video about an EP/GM pack. There was an instance with IL, where (I believe was before the released) the coverage of the expansion pack in youtube consisted of just BB or CAS only.
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  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited October 2019
    It's good to mention it, but they make as if the only and main pinnacle problem. Besides, it seems like GC seem to be showing only that when packs are announced: build mode and CAS. Live mode takes always a back seen when they suppose to do a video about an EP/GM pack. There was an instance with IL, where (I believe was before the released) the coverage of the expansion pack in youtube consisted of just BB or CAS only.

    That's because those packs have few to no new gameplay. IL recycled so much and so did RoM. There was nothing really new to see or do a side from a few new animations and small things. And IL didn't brought any new systems to the mix, unless you consider the feature that absolutely no one uses which is the "Oddjobs". A lot of it were just rabbit holes....

    GC's aren't dumb they know this, and they barely even play TS4 anymore if you check their youtube videos. It's mostly just Builds now.
    Post edited by Sigzy05 on
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  • TheSpotted_CTheSpotted_C Posts: 293 Member
    Watched this and I think it’s fair and constructive - no name calling, respectful of those of us who actually enjoy the game as it is and lots of solid reasoning. I appreciate the thought that went into this video and I don’t disagree with most of what he pointed out. I get a lot of enjoyment out of the game personally, but I do think that I would be fine if negative emotions, relationships and interactions hit harder (especially if we still have the moodlet solver reward lol).

    I like the idea of greater increase in random death BUT I would like that to be optional. Maybe give us 3 different options of percentages - 3%, 33%, 50% chance or something. I used to hate it when my family would be on a great track and then that darn rocket ship would crash before I was done with that character so all that work would be made null because I didn’t save periodically lol.

    I like the idea of differentiating relationships but I don't like the idea of bringing chemistry, attraction or the reputation system back. Make that optional. I want to choose exactly who my sims get with, no exceptions.

    I do love the idea of choosing difficulty level for gameplay.
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited October 2019
    Watched this and I think it’s fair and constructive - no name calling, respectful of those of us who actually enjoy the game as it is and lots of solid reasoning. I appreciate the thought that went into this video and I don’t disagree with most of what he pointed out. I get a lot of enjoyment out of the game personally, but I do think that I would be fine if negative emotions, relationships and interactions hit harder (especially if we still have the moodlet solver reward lol).

    I like the idea of greater increase in random death BUT I would like that to be optional. Maybe give us 3 different options of percentages - 3%, 33%, 50% chance or something. I used to hate it when my family would be on a great track and then that darn rocket ship would crash before I was done with that character so all that work would be made null because I didn’t save periodically lol.

    I like the idea of differentiating relationships but I don't like the idea of bringing chemistry, attraction or the reputation system back. Make that optional. I want to choose exactly who my sims get with, no exceptions.

    I do love the idea of choosing difficulty level for gameplay.

    I feel like that's on the player. If you know you are going to do something that has a chance of death save before doing that action, it's such a simple "exploit" yet people complain about the "random" deaths. Should be complaining about yourself not saving the game more often. There are also things that factor into random deaths, like cooking at low level skill on a cheap stove, going to space with a low rocket science skill etc, many of such occasions can be avoided if you know how to actually play the game, and it should be like that for everything. Sims no longer even need to go to the shower to put themselves out when they are burning they can use a fire extinguisher on themselves that's how ridiculously easy TS4 is.

    Random encounters can also make for a challenging more entertaining game, like the burglars that come to your house at night to steal things or the repo man that comes when you don't pay your bills. The repo man should exist in TS4 as a third consequence for not paying the bills, instead of the player barely getting any penalty, and the fact that it's the third one and not the first one is already making it pretty nice. Vampires that come at night to suck sims blood and give a moodlet that can easily be overwritten and doesn't even last that long, doesn't influence the rest of my sims day so it's kind of pointless.
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