Another thought -- Sims 4 has a very in-depth mechanic for abusive relationships that you just cannot have in previous games. The really only viable way to get to high-romance, low-friendship without cheating is for one or both to be abusive. I played a couple like that once and it was disturbing. I wouldn't do it again.
I'd be far more concerned about THAT dynamic than one of an angry ex confronting either their ex or their ex's new beau in an angry way. But no, let's not even think about the amount of mean interactions that require a drop in friendship that "making up in bed" and some autonomous after-woo chatter doesn't win back.
Now, to be clear, I don't think the abusive relationship mechanic should be removed from the Sims. But I also think there needs to be a lot more consequences for that scenario other than a few new interactions as well.
It's funny how we view teen girls (speaking as the mother of two young women and two young men). Vapid, vain, and stupid. Pumpkin spice lattes become popular with teen girls? It becomes a huge joke, because teen girls like them (they're delicious, btw, but not the point I'm making). A musician becomes popular with teen girls? They must be terrible because, well, teen girls like them. Etc. And I see that attitude from all over the spectrum. If something is popular with teen girls, it must be trash because reasons.
Add to it devs not talking to teen girls, but instead talking to people who talk to teen girls. That's ridiculous. Often people who work with teen girls see the surface pettiness and drama that all teens get involved with (yet only girls are faulted for it).
I absolutely think it's important for video games to have something relatable in them for people. But I think about video games that really have a wide following across all genders -- Mario, Pokémon, Stardew Valley, Dragon Age (really, most Bioware RPGs). The Sims is on that list as well. For most of them, they weren't made with "oh, girls like this, boys like that, yadada" -- they were made to be engaging.
There are people who love playing with dolls and that's great and there should always be that option. But it should be an option, along with other options. I started playing Sims 3 again, and I'm actually a bit dizzy with all the options of various types of gameplay I have.
On another tangent -- one thing gamers from across the board call for is consequences. If you make X choice, there should be some Y reaction. If my Lone Wanderer decides to blow up a city for money from a rich psychopath, my character should be viewed differently and have some things opened up for them and some things closed. And if my Sim decides to break up a family, maybe the ex should hunt down my Sim and beat her up, and maybe the ex's friends should dislike my sim, and maybe there should be a lot of gossip regarding it. Being able to do things consequence free, while fun for awhile, does grow boring. And it's not only sims gamers who feel this. A huge criticism to games that I see is there needs to be more consequences, good and bad.
Isn't there enough violence in Society that you want to get an 'ex' to be beaten by their previous partner in game? You can make that story up yourself if you want but most Simmers are probably playing the game without doing it because they see too much of it in real life.
I was thinking of the scenario in Sims 3 where an ex would show up just looking to get into a fight. It can be avoided, though -- you can book it out of there, you can try to talk them down, etc.
And violence in video games does not reflect on my real life. I LOVE shooting up things in video games. I hope I never have to use a gun in real life.
Edit: And think about it -- you just broke up a marriage and you see the now-ex coming towards you. What is a more immersive reaction? Them yelling at you and wanting to fight? Or them giving you a hug and chatting because the room has nice decor?
And in the midst of all this University will be released and I'll definitely be playing that for a while.
Has EA made any official statements, or is this just rumor being spread by folks desperately hoping that *this* will be the white knight pack to solve all their gaming woes? Going to college, RL or sims, is hardly the ultimate in life fulfillment. Even if true, the pack will be disappointing (as they all have of late), and a bit of a grind if the TS2 (which does a much better job with packs than 4) version is any indicator.
No, nothing official but Target has it as a place holder so it's probably true some sort of education pack coming in Nov. Another store leaked they had IL as a place holder and I bet against that one, but was wrong and it turned out to be true. If anyone finds a place holder in the list if games coming to a store, then I think it's sort of safe to believe it, though the titles may not be the actual word for word titles.
Plus it’s not exactly revolutionary, University being next.
Yeah, and a little late in my opinion. All those home careers and new careers (handful in five years) not needing degrees? Late to me.
Can't speak for TS3, but TS2 launched its university pack as the second one so current careers could be plugged into it. Since it was already in place, plugging new careers in as they came out was easy. Waiting this long, assuming the rumors are true, is bad planning and worse execution.
Sims 3 made it so your degree would place you higher in the relevant field. For instance, a degree in science and medicine would start you as an intern in the medical field. There were also some new jobs, but they were more tied into the social groups, and I felt that was a bad implementation.
TS2 does much the same thing. If a sim gets a job in a career the degree is aimed at they start off at a higher level than a sim with no degree. In addition, your honors (or lack of them) determine how high up that start is. A sim graduating Suma 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Laude gets a much higher boost than one that just squeeks by. 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Laude & Magna 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Laude get boosts relevant to the honor.
And in the midst of all this University will be released and I'll definitely be playing that for a while.
Has EA made any official statements, or is this just rumor being spread by folks desperately hoping that *this* will be the white knight pack to solve all their gaming woes? Going to college, RL or sims, is hardly the ultimate in life fulfillment. Even if true, the pack will be disappointing (as they all have of late), and a bit of a grind if the TS2 (which does a much better job with packs than 4) version is any indicator.
No, nothing official but Target has it as a place holder so it's probably true some sort of education pack coming in Nov. Another store leaked they had IL as a place holder and I bet against that one, but was wrong and it turned out to be true. If anyone finds a place holder in the list if games coming to a store, then I think it's sort of safe to believe it, though the titles may not be the actual word for word titles.
Plus it’s not exactly revolutionary, University being next.
Yeah, and a little late in my opinion. All those home careers and new careers (handful in five years) not needing degrees? Late to me.
Can't speak for TS3, but TS2 launched its university pack as the second one so current careers could be plugged into it. Since it was already in place, plugging new careers in as they came out was easy. Waiting this long, assuming the rumors are true, is bad planning and worse execution.
Sims 3 made it so your degree would place you higher in the relevant field. For instance, a degree in science and medicine would start you as an intern in the medical field. There were also some new jobs, but they were more tied into the social groups, and I felt that was a bad implementation.
TS2 does much the same thing. If a sim gets a job in a career the degree is aimed at they start off at a higher level than a sim with no degree. In addition, your honors (or lack of them) determine how high up that start is. A sim graduating Suma plum Laude gets a much higher boost than one that just squeeks by. plum Laude & Magna plum Laude get boosts relevant to the honor.
*laughing at the censor* I forgot that Sims 3 does the same with GPAs. I liked that.
It's funny how we view teen girls (speaking as the mother of two young women and two young men). Vapid, vain, and stupid. Pumpkin spice lattes become popular with teen girls? It becomes a huge joke, because teen girls like them (they're delicious, btw, but not the point I'm making). A musician becomes popular with teen girls? They must be terrible because, well, teen girls like them. Etc. And I see that attitude from all over the spectrum. If something is popular with teen girls, it must be trash because reasons.
Add to it devs not talking to teen girls, but instead talking to people who talk to teen girls. That's ridiculous. Often people who work with teen girls see the surface pettiness and drama that all teens get involved with (yet only girls are faulted for it).
I absolutely think it's important for video games to have something relatable in them for people. But I think about video games that really have a wide following across all genders -- Mario, Pokémon, Stardew Valley, Dragon Age (really, most Bioware RPGs). The Sims is on that list as well. For most of them, they weren't made with "oh, girls like this, boys like that, yadada" -- they were made to be engaging.
There are people who love playing with dolls and that's great and there should always be that option. But it should be an option, along with other options. I started playing Sims 3 again, and I'm actually a bit dizzy with all the options of various types of gameplay I have.
On another tangent -- one thing gamers from across the board call for is consequences. If you make X choice, there should be some Y reaction. If my Lone Wanderer decides to blow up a city for money from a rich psychopath, my character should be viewed differently and have some things opened up for them and some things closed. And if my Sim decides to break up a family, maybe the ex should hunt down my Sim and beat her up, and maybe the ex's friends should dislike my sim, and maybe there should be a lot of gossip regarding it. Being able to do things consequence free, while fun for awhile, does grow boring. And it's not only sims gamers who feel this. A huge criticism to games that I see is there needs to be more consequences, good and bad.
Isn't there enough violence in Society that you want to get an 'ex' to be beaten by their previous partner in game? You can make that story up yourself if you want but most Simmers are probably playing the game without doing it because they see too much of it in real life.
But that’s the point- there is no consequence. You can’t have an ex beaten by a previous partner as they don’t care.
In sims 1-3 if your sims catches their spouse cheating, the cheated on sim will slap the sim that cheated, sometimes even the “other sim” Sometimes depending on personalities, it can lead to a fight. Either way it will have huge consequences for them as they will fall out. Sims 2 had the most effective consequences as they became furious.
What’s in sims 4 in that scenario? A moodlet. A moodlet that might not even be seen behind all the happy moodlets. It was Will Wright that recognised that players preferred playing with failure states. The sims 4 wants to wash that away- but don’t expect players to not notice or care.
Beating up a partner in real life or a game is repugnant to me and shouldn't be even thought of these days. We have had so many horrific killings and beating up of women lately in the UK with pictures all over the front pages. I don't want it in any game I play and if it was I would like the Simmers who want it to see the results. Leave such stuff to GTA.
Meh, I don’t mind it. There’s a difference between that and two cartoon people slapping each other.
Excessive stuff, such as guns, I’d say belong in GTA.
Thought I was the only one, even felt guilty to see that I was pretry bored even while playing TS3. I used to want to open my game everytime I used the PC but it's not the case anymore. I'm also 16 so it's maybe time to stop playing games lol.
Nah, it's just time to find another game. I'm a little over 30, and I still play plenty of games in addition to The Sims: fighting games, RPG's (single-player and MMO's), Pokemon, Monster Rancher, Stardew Valley, platform games (2D and 3D...especially Sonic games...Fight me...)...Hitting your teens doesn't mean leaving gaming behind. If anything, it just means you have an easier time spotting when a game isn't as good as it could possibly be. If you find yourself finding more flaws in your games as you get older and thinking of ways they could be better, maybe you should consider a career in the gaming industry (just remember your pepper spray, because women in all mostly male-dominated industries need anti-creep measures close at hand...).
I'm a male lol. But no, I'm not interested in gaming industry haha. Yeah, what I meant by saying it's time to quit games is that it's maybe time to focus on my future and let games beside me, by the way now I play like once a week compared to everyday before.
Even if you're a guy, still bring the pepper spray. You never know when you or a co-worker will need it...(There are lots of creeps in the working world, so be safe and bring protection.)
And, it's O.K. to slow down on gaming when you have stuff like school or a job to deal with...just don't think that just because you're getting older that you have to give up a hobby you enjoy. The whole, "Put away childish things" thing is totally outdated. Always stay young at heart, and never forget what it was like to be a kid, even when you're 102. Forgetting what it was like to be a kid is what leads adults to make so many bad decisions on the behalf of kids...
The reactions in Sims 2 were seriously brilliant and so entertaining. All these years later, I can still remember Don flirting with some gal at the H & M store not knowing that a heap of his other romantic interests were shopping there... and suddenly there was a line of females queuing up to slap him. I was laughing my socks off.
As much as I enjoy the Sims 4, the consequences are non-existent and it very much spoils being able to play any misbehaving sims in any way. Romance, kleptomania, evil, mean... all far far too inconsequential and therefore not fun.
HAHAHA wow you made me laugh just with a text. TS2 is amazing haha.
Violence and frustration and pain and sorrow and grieve and also death are part of life and therefore have its place in a life simulation game. If partners get beat up in real life, I’m really sorry but that in itself means it belongs in a game that reflects on life. Not thinking about it won’t make it go away, if only that were true. And as long as I play Sims and follow stories by other simmers, the darker sides of life have clearly played an important role in those stories. I even think this might be one of the reasons why Sims means more to players than just a game. The ability to play with big issues like that in the safe environment of a game. Removing that will take away any form of depth.
There's no consequences. There's no fear, no worry, nothing. Sims don't care if they lose their job since they can get another one instantly just by calling in. You don't get evicted from your house for not paying the bills, but the services do get turned off, eventually. After that nothing else happens.
Children and Teens don't get bullied or have fights with their friends and only come home bored, embarrassed or stressed. I want a kid to come home angry maybe.
Nobody cares or even acknowledges death anymore. They only cry at graves even if they've never met the person. It's just automatic. There's no real care put into the sadness.
Sims who break up in the morning can be back together and engaged by evening. That makes no sense.
Jobs pay too much. Bills take out too little. A sim never has to go hungry to make sure their kids are fed.
A world without negative aspects just brings about a utopia that is never ending and utterly boring. How can you see the good without the bad?
Innovation is definitely what we need. That being said, I don't at all believe its the fault of the team. EA makes the decision, the suits that are delivering the business plan for the game, the profitable trajectory that they have in mind...they are the rope that ties the team's hands. I think everyone who is in this business to create content wants nothing more than to be creative. But in the end, they have to do their jobs within the constraints created by their employers.
And so, there will be innovation when it is most profitable to deliver it which would be in the next iteration of Sims, Sims 5. They'll put out the new base game. Then, they'll begin the long slog of parceling out all of the planned expansion packs right on schedule all over again. The course has no doubt already been plotted. And, when the last one drops, they'll kick off the dust, add one fresh ingredient, and kick-start the machine back into action all over again.
And so we'll rejoin the long slog, dabbing up the crumbs of a similar schedule of dispersed expansions along with a couple of surprises strategically integrated to maintain our interest and perpetuate our purchases.
Here's hoping the new game has exciting and unexpected innovation that will make it worth our while to get back on the merry go round. Shameful, I know, but I'll admit I'm looking forward to it. What a masochist. But, I'm sure I'm not alone and that I'll see most of you right next to me trotting away on the next great hamster wheel of perpetual shakedown. Addicts, all of us.
Hi, my name is Candice and I'm a Simaholic.
All together now, *conducting* "Hello, Candice"
I've been sober for...Aw, who am I kidding? *hands EA her credit card*
There's no consequences. There's no fear, no worry, nothing. Sims don't care if they lose their job since they can get another one instantly just by calling in. You don't get evicted from your house for not paying the bills, but the services do get turned off, eventually. After that nothing else happens.
Children and Teens don't get bullied or have fights with their friends and only come home bored, embarrassed or stressed. I want a kid to come home angry maybe.
Nobody cares or even acknowledges death anymore. They only cry at graves even if they've never met the person. It's just automatic. There's no real care put into the sadness.
Sims who break up in the morning can be back together and engaged by evening. That makes no sense.
Jobs pay too much. Bills take out too little. A sim never has to go hungry to make sure their kids are fed.
A world without negative aspects just brings about a utopia that is never ending and utterly boring. How can you see the good without the bad?
I agree with this. I’ve said this for a long time now. No consequences make it boring. I had to play the game yesterday and I had my sim play hooky from her job for a week. He never lost his job. Nothing happened.
Try that in sims 2 and your sim will lose their job.
Has anyone informed EA that we want more diverse interesting sims on Sims 4 game? What was their answer?
In my opinion their answer has been to ignore these requests and or misinterpret them.
Examples: They added gender patch, as if Sims are no more than a label of sexuality, and nothing more or any deeper than their sexuality, and some ethnic clothes which didn't actually bring any new gameplay to go along or play out why Sims would wear the clothes and or change their gender.
They have never answered why traits don't matter in this game, after 999 request to make it so, or they are under a delusion they actually work (traits) and must think these Sims are 'diverse' but I hate to tell them this, for like the millionth time, but dress up and ethnic clothes or changing genders of a Sim isn't game play... it's dress up. Looking at a body frame, some clothes, and labeling Sims isn't gameplay. (It's only an avatar).
(A good example is the label on the teen Sim, and so what if it says teen, it means nothing).
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Edit: removed a sentence that was none of my business, lol.
Anyway, I do get bored when playing Sims 4. I can have fun, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't engross me as the other Sims games have. I wonder if it's more for story telling instead of just playing the game. I see a lot of people on the threads here that talk about the stories they are going to tell and go really into depth with their story with things that just aren't possible. I love hearing their stories, but it really just doesn't happen when you play.
I don't tell stories. I just play the game. That's why the earlier sims games were better for me, because I could actually play something...the game gave me tools, threw me curves, let me explore, let the stories I suppose come naturally instead of me planning every thing in advance and pretending it's happening in the game? I don't know if it makes sense what I'm trying to convey.
But anyway -- that's why I get bored with Sims 4. I want the game to help me move the story along, I don't want to create something in advance and just pretend it's happening when I play. Maybe if I took dozens of pictures and wrote a blog about a story I created I could see Sims 4 really being a great tool. I just want to sit and play with just a vague notion and see what happens as I play...see what my decisions bring to me. I like the surprises the older games gave me I guess.
I do want to say that I'm impressed with a lot of the stories people tell with their sims, some of them are very creative and I love to read about them. But I don't want to tell stories, I just want to have fun and play a game.
Check out my cooking Youtube channel: Living with Leigh
Thousands of hours on Sims3. Few hundred on Sims4. Pretty much tells it all right there. Hopefully EA learns from the hundreds of thousands of mistakes from Sims4 to make Sims5 a great game. (If the series lives that long. Thanks EA...)
Edit: removed a sentence that was none of my business, lol.
Anyway, I do get bored when playing Sims 4. I can have fun, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't engross me as the other Sims games have. I wonder if it's more for story telling instead of just playing the game. I see a lot of people on the threads here that talk about the stories they are going to tell and go really into depth with their story with things that just aren't possible. I love hearing their stories, but it really just doesn't happen when you play.
I don't tell stories. I just play the game. That's why the earlier sims games were better for me, because I could actually play something...the game gave me tools, threw me curves, let me explore, let the stories I suppose come naturally instead of me planning every thing in advance and pretending it's happening in the game? I don't know if it makes sense what I'm trying to convey.
But anyway -- that's why I get bored with Sims 4. I want the game to help me move the story along, I don't want to create something in advance and just pretend it's happening when I play. Maybe if I took dozens of pictures and wrote a blog about a story I created I could see Sims 4 really being a great tool. I just want to sit and play with just a vague notion and see what happens as I play...see what my decisions bring to me. I like the surprises the older games gave me I guess.
I do want to say that I'm impressed with a lot of the stories people tell with their sims, some of them are very creative and I love to read about them. But I don't want to tell stories, I just want to have fun and play a game.
I agree with this whole thing so much. Just. All of it. This is exactly it, I've never been able to express it. I don't want to have to plan every minute detail in advance just to make it seem interesting when half of what I come up with the game can't even adequately achieve.
The blog thing is so real too--I am in no way a blogger but almost started one (still might lol) just because it seems the best way to utilize Sims 4. But at the end of the day, I just want to be able to play and have it be interesting without me having to help it along so much.
I like creating my own stories, but I shouldn't have to do it to keep it interesting. It's become a crutch in Sims 4 imo. They want you to tell your story so much that the slightest thing out of your control isn't even allowed anymore...
Anyway, I do get bored when playing Sims 4. I can have fun, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't engross me as the other Sims games have. I wonder if it's more for story telling instead of just playing the game. I see a lot of people on the threads here that talk about the stories they are going to tell and go really into depth with their story with things that just aren't possible. I love hearing their stories, but it really just doesn't happen when you play.
I don't tell stories. I just play the game. That's why the earlier sims games were better for me, because I could actually play something...the game gave me tools, threw me curves, let me explore, let the stories I suppose come naturally instead of me planning every thing in advance and pretending it's happening in the game? I don't know if it makes sense what I'm trying to convey.
But anyway -- that's why I get bored with Sims 4. I want the game to help me move the story along, I don't want to create something in advance and just pretend it's happening when I play. Maybe if I took dozens of pictures and wrote a blog about a story I created I could see Sims 4 really being a great tool. I just want to sit and play with just a vague notion and see what happens as I play...see what my decisions bring to me. I like the surprises the older games gave me I guess.
I do want to say that I'm impressed with a lot of the stories people tell with their sims, some of them are very creative and I love to read about them. But I don't want to tell stories, I just want to have fun and play a game.
I agree with this whole thing so much. Just. All of it. This is exactly it, I've never been able to express it. I don't want to have to plan every minute detail in advance just to make it seem interesting when half of what I come up with the game can't even adequately achieve.
The blog thing is so real too--I am in no way a blogger but almost started one (still might lol) just because it seems the best way to utilize Sims 4. But at the end of the day, I just want to be able to play and have it be interesting without me having to help it along so much.
I like creating my own stories, but I shouldn't have to do it to keep it interesting. It's become a crutch in Sims 4 imo. They want you to tell your story so much that the slightest thing out of your control isn't even allowed anymore...
These two things right here are how I feel about this game.
Have a super fantastic awesome splendid amazing day! -TheQxxn
"Without interesting failure states, the success in the game is less meaningful."
- Will Wright
The Sims 4 has always felt sterilised to me when it comes to things like consequences. It tries so, so hard not to get in your way or throw a spanner in your plans and that right there is where it stops being a life simulator, I've said it before and I'll say it again. In life we all have plans and hopes and dreams and all that but more often than not something comes up that prevents us from achieving them. There's so many things that just fall flat.
In the original game back in 2000 fires were utterly devastating. Sure you could get the fireman over pretty quick if you had an alarm, but there was always the chance that when a Sim was extinguishing flames (including a fireman) there would be a bad reaction that would cause the fire to spread to about eight or ten squares instantly, which pretty much meant your kitchen was gone. On top of that fires killed Sims in a matter of seconds, and only another Sim could extinguish them - they couldn't save themselves at that point. In 4 you've got a sprinkler and fires might as well not be in the game, they're so inconsequential. Will had personal experience with fire and so he made sure it was a serious deal.
In 1 and 2 children or teens would lose an entire grade at school if they so much as missed one day. In 4 I've had teens take a week off and not lose a grade. The same goes with jobs for older Sims - in the past if you missed 2 days in a row you were fired outright whereas now it takes ages for the performance bar to drop. Sims who get bad grades in 4 get a sad moodlet. Sims in 1 and 2 who got bad grades were sent to military school and removed from the household.
In 2 and 3 if a partner was caught cheating then they could potentially be kicked out of the house right there and then, boom, gone. Relationships plummeted due to bad events like cheating or fighting because there was the fury system, an actual consequence for these sorts of things. Sims wouldn't be able to have a normal conversation for hours or days depending on the offence. In 4 it's all good, just high five your wife and all that.
In 2 if you had a teen in the house and you didn't look after their needs, aspiration or friendships then there was a chance they could run away. Reporting them as missing to the police within 24 hours made it likely that they would be found but if you didn't then there was a good chance they'd stay gone, only returning the day before their birthday. There were unique failure states for different age groups in that sense.
In 2 a vampire would die within less than a minute if they were so much as awake during the day, it didn't matter if they were indoors or not. Daytime equalled an untimely demise in true gothic fashion. Nowadays having an empty thirst bar won't even kill a vampire. In 3 vampires died by low thirst and had a really neat ghost (black with a visible, beating red heart and veins).
Chance cards in 4 are borderline meaningless little boxes of text that have next to no impact, either giving tiny rewards or moodlets, or moving an arrow a few centimetres along a performance bar. In 2 they had impacts, you could get demoted or lose your job for a wrong choice, or lose a day's pay, or on the opposite side of things, earn an instant promotion or a cash bonus. 3 had opportunities that could be anything from simple tasks like "repair this" or "go to this event" all the way up to going to travelling the world.
The Sims 4 just feels so utterly weak and stagnant. It tries so hard to be inoffensive and unproblematic and as such it's just dull. It hasn't been sterilised for kids, it has been sterilised for sensitive adults. Moving the Tom and Jerry level slap animation from the mean category to the mischief category because it could be construed as abusive? This is a game where you can lock your neighbours in your basement because your vampire doesn't feel like getting a take away.
"Without interesting failure states, the success in the game is less meaningful."
- Will Wright
The Sims 4 has always felt sterilised to me when it comes to things like consequences. It tries so, so hard not to get in your way or throw a spanner in your plans and that right there is where it stops being a life simulator, I've said it before and I'll say it again. In life we all have plans and hopes and dreams and all that but more often than not something comes up that prevents us from achieving them. There's so many things that just fall flat.
In the original game back in 2000 fires were utterly devastating. Sure you could get the fireman over pretty quick if you had an alarm, but there was always the chance that when a Sim was extinguishing flames (including a fireman) there would be a bad reaction that would cause the fire to spread to about eight or ten squares instantly, which pretty much meant your kitchen was gone. On top of that fires killed Sims in a matter of seconds, and only another Sim could extinguish them - they couldn't save themselves at that point. In 4 you've got a sprinkler and fires might as well not be in the game, they're so inconsequential. Will had personal experience with fire and so he made sure it was a serious deal.
In 1 and 2 children or teens would lose an entire grade at school if they so much as missed one day. In 4 I've had teens take a week off and not lose a grade. The same goes with jobs for older Sims - in the past if you missed 2 days in a row you were fired outright whereas now it takes ages for the performance bar to drop. Sims who get bad grades in 4 get a sad moodlet. Sims in 1 and 2 who got bad grades were sent to military school and removed from the household.
In 2 and 3 if a partner was caught cheating then they could potentially be kicked out of the house right there and then, boom, gone. Relationships plummeted due to bad events like cheating or fighting because there was the fury system, an actual consequence for these sorts of things. Sims wouldn't be able to have a normal conversation for hours or days depending on the offence. In 4 it's all good, just high five your wife and all that.
In 2 if you had a teen in the house and you didn't look after their needs, aspiration or friendships then there was a chance they could run away. Reporting them as missing to the police within 24 hours made it likely that they would be found but if you didn't then there was a good chance they'd stay gone, only returning the day before their birthday. There were unique failure states for different age groups in that sense.
In 2 a vampire would die within less than a minute if they were so much as awake during the day, it didn't matter if they were indoors or not. Daytime equalled an untimely demise in true gothic fashion. Nowadays having an empty thirst bar won't even kill a vampire. In 3 vampires died by low thirst and had a really neat ghost (black with a visible, beating red heart and veins).
Chance cards in 4 are borderline meaningless little boxes of text that have next to no impact, either giving tiny rewards or moodlets, or moving an arrow a few centimetres along a performance bar. In 2 they had impacts, you could get demoted or lose your job for a wrong choice, or lose a day's pay, or on the opposite side of things, earn an instant promotion or a cash bonus. 3 had opportunities that could be anything from simple tasks like "repair this" or "go to this event" all the way up to going to travelling the world.
The Sims 4 just feels so utterly weak and stagnant. It tries so hard to be inoffensive and unproblematic and as such it's just dull. It hasn't been sterilised for kids, it has been sterilised for sensitive adults. Moving the Tom and Jerry level slap animation from the mean category to the mischief category because it could be construed as abusive? This is a game where you can lock your neighbours in your basement because your vampire doesn't feel like getting a take away.
Holy plum! I’d forgotten about military school lol and the social worker they didn’t mess around they’d take ALL your kids and teens on the lot iirc.
I’m going to play TS2 later I haven’t for a while.
It's funny to me, I just can't recall any of this selective outrage back in 2000 in The Sims nor in other iterations. Only on forums about this one. Just this game has to be so sanatized and I wonder why that is.
I think it still goes back to reflect the wishes of the people in charge instead of fans. Rachel Franklin who was over TS4 stated they felt the pointing of a finger was abusive. I don't, I think it's just a way to express something you feel deeply about. It's not in TS4 but was in the other iterations. Sort of proves my point those in charge actually make the rules rather than EA or the ESRB which states Teen- Violence.
Concerning me being in that thread about the kids showing up in night clubs. I was only pointing out Sim parents didn't care in TS4. Unlike in The Sims when Mortimor or Bella would show up to take Casandra home no matter where she was. But I don't think she ever showed up in Hot Date, Downtown, in a night club.
My problems with TS4's townie generator is (one) it doesn't send the correct Sims when other games did. Period. Going out is boring, the other games decide why a Sim should show up. Relationship, things in common, recent events, how that Sim would play into the life of your own, if they like the place or not, or they are the type of Sim to be out that late, all those things and many other things in the code are why Sims are sent to community lots in the other games. Even in TS2's character files of predestined townies) Goopy isn't going to show up every where nor just because nor because the game couldn't find someone more relative of why they go there, but as needed and for many different reasons.
If people want children in night clubs more power to them, however, I expect a game that swears it cares, to make a parent show up at some point. Or the whole TS4 is the best game ever statements won't fly with me, because no if it was super good, it would remember that kid has a parent somewhere.
I was like playing where are this kid's parents? No where, because it's just not that deep, since I can just delete that kid right there in the club, and the parent will never even cry because I deleted them. They will never even remember them, ever. Not ever. Shallow tools to tell stories isn't my idea of the best game ever. I can write stories outside of game all day long heck, I can take pictures of Barbie dolls and write captions under them, I expect a game to do more than that. OT, the AI is boring.
Case in point set your camera to the WC portal and watch what type of Sims come through the portals. One time it was all children, the next time it was all teens, and so on. Then you go to community lots to see more kids or more teens etc. Lazy generator filled with code such as recently to just produce one type of surnames. Let's just do it the easy way and no one will ever notice, right? No, hundreds of threads saying otherwise, there was nothing amazing about any of that these past five years.
We wnat to talk best game ever? GTW< I liked that pack up c'mon, shallow programing. Same Sims returning five minutes later the hospital and me screaming at screen, I just cured you! Then if not cured and left the hospital not sick when seen in public. Yeah, that's some deep programming right? To treat the same Sims over and over and no consequence for townies being sick since when they leave they are not. Fans of other iterations wouldn't have put up with such boring gameplay but we do. I have, knowing it was boring.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Not that I want to dive back into the same conversation that happened in a different thread but:
Children are not supposed to show up at nightclubs, especially not late at night, unattended unless the player is the one bringing them there. If they are showing up, then it's a bug that needs to be reported. If a player brings them to a club, then they have the exact same power of bringing their parents there to pick them up and play out the circumstance precisely as they mean to.
Not that I want to dive back into the same conversation that happened in a different thread but:
Children are not supposed to show up at nightclubs, especially not late at night, unattended unless the player is the one bringing them there. If they are showing up, then it's a bug that needs to be reported. If a player brings them to a club, then they have the exact same power of bringing their parents there to pick them up and play out the circumstance precisely as they mean to.
It may have been fixed. But the point I think is why wouldn't the game know that kid has a parent out there like it does in the others? It's just not that deep. Personally, I want the code of this game to be more intericate than things like that since day one, and was only possibly changed after many years of complaints. It went on for years, instead of sending a better selection of a Sim of a different age that may have been an enemy of one of many partners (to cause trouble) and or someone that could have boosted your Sim's life or made them miserable depeding on traits, things in common or not, etc. Sending a child townie (if not intended) should have been patched the first month in my opinion because it's one less slot for Sim that could possibly be a better reason to play out the events of whatever happens there.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Thousands of hours on Sims3. Few hundred on Sims4. Pretty much tells it all right there. Hopefully EA learns from the hundreds of thousands of mistakes from Sims4 to make Sims5 a great game. (If the series lives that long. Thanks EA...)
I have to set an alarm when I play Sims 3. Sims 4 is great for passing an hour.
Comments
I'd be far more concerned about THAT dynamic than one of an angry ex confronting either their ex or their ex's new beau in an angry way. But no, let's not even think about the amount of mean interactions that require a drop in friendship that "making up in bed" and some autonomous after-woo chatter doesn't win back.
Now, to be clear, I don't think the abusive relationship mechanic should be removed from the Sims. But I also think there needs to be a lot more consequences for that scenario other than a few new interactions as well.
TS2 does much the same thing. If a sim gets a job in a career the degree is aimed at they start off at a higher level than a sim with no degree. In addition, your honors (or lack of them) determine how high up that start is. A sim graduating Suma 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Laude gets a much higher boost than one that just squeeks by. 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Laude & Magna 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Laude get boosts relevant to the honor.
*laughing at the censor* I forgot that Sims 3 does the same with GPAs. I liked that.
Meh, I don’t mind it. There’s a difference between that and two cartoon people slapping each other.
Excessive stuff, such as guns, I’d say belong in GTA.
Thank's for the advice.
HAHAHA wow you made me laugh just with a text.
There's no consequences. There's no fear, no worry, nothing. Sims don't care if they lose their job since they can get another one instantly just by calling in. You don't get evicted from your house for not paying the bills, but the services do get turned off, eventually. After that nothing else happens.
Children and Teens don't get bullied or have fights with their friends and only come home bored, embarrassed or stressed. I want a kid to come home angry maybe.
Nobody cares or even acknowledges death anymore. They only cry at graves even if they've never met the person. It's just automatic. There's no real care put into the sadness.
Sims who break up in the morning can be back together and engaged by evening. That makes no sense.
Jobs pay too much. Bills take out too little. A sim never has to go hungry to make sure their kids are fed.
A world without negative aspects just brings about a utopia that is never ending and utterly boring. How can you see the good without the bad?
And so, there will be innovation when it is most profitable to deliver it which would be in the next iteration of Sims, Sims 5. They'll put out the new base game. Then, they'll begin the long slog of parceling out all of the planned expansion packs right on schedule all over again. The course has no doubt already been plotted. And, when the last one drops, they'll kick off the dust, add one fresh ingredient, and kick-start the machine back into action all over again.
And so we'll rejoin the long slog, dabbing up the crumbs of a similar schedule of dispersed expansions along with a couple of surprises strategically integrated to maintain our interest and perpetuate our purchases.
Here's hoping the new game has exciting and unexpected innovation that will make it worth our while to get back on the merry go round. Shameful, I know, but I'll admit I'm looking forward to it. What a masochist. But, I'm sure I'm not alone and that I'll see most of you right next to me trotting away on the next great hamster wheel of perpetual shakedown. Addicts, all of us.
Hi, my name is Candice and I'm a Simaholic.
All together now, *conducting* "Hello, Candice"
I've been sober for...Aw, who am I kidding? *hands EA her credit card*
I agree with this. I’ve said this for a long time now. No consequences make it boring. I had to play the game yesterday and I had my sim play hooky from her job for a week. He never lost his job. Nothing happened.
Try that in sims 2 and your sim will lose their job.
In my opinion their answer has been to ignore these requests and or misinterpret them.
Examples: They added gender patch, as if Sims are no more than a label of sexuality, and nothing more or any deeper than their sexuality, and some ethnic clothes which didn't actually bring any new gameplay to go along or play out why Sims would wear the clothes and or change their gender.
They have never answered why traits don't matter in this game, after 999 request to make it so, or they are under a delusion they actually work (traits) and must think these Sims are 'diverse' but I hate to tell them this, for like the millionth time, but dress up and ethnic clothes or changing genders of a Sim isn't game play... it's dress up. Looking at a body frame, some clothes, and labeling Sims isn't gameplay. (It's only an avatar).
(A good example is the label on the teen Sim, and so what if it says teen, it means nothing).
Anyway, I do get bored when playing Sims 4. I can have fun, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't engross me as the other Sims games have. I wonder if it's more for story telling instead of just playing the game. I see a lot of people on the threads here that talk about the stories they are going to tell and go really into depth with their story with things that just aren't possible. I love hearing their stories, but it really just doesn't happen when you play.
I don't tell stories. I just play the game. That's why the earlier sims games were better for me, because I could actually play something...the game gave me tools, threw me curves, let me explore, let the stories I suppose come naturally instead of me planning every thing in advance and pretending it's happening in the game? I don't know if it makes sense what I'm trying to convey.
But anyway -- that's why I get bored with Sims 4. I want the game to help me move the story along, I don't want to create something in advance and just pretend it's happening when I play. Maybe if I took dozens of pictures and wrote a blog about a story I created I could see Sims 4 really being a great tool. I just want to sit and play with just a vague notion and see what happens as I play...see what my decisions bring to me. I like the surprises the older games gave me I guess.
I do want to say that I'm impressed with a lot of the stories people tell with their sims, some of them are very creative and I love to read about them. But I don't want to tell stories, I just want to have fun and play a game.
I agree with this whole thing so much. Just. All of it. This is exactly it, I've never been able to express it. I don't want to have to plan every minute detail in advance just to make it seem interesting when half of what I come up with the game can't even adequately achieve.
The blog thing is so real too--I am in no way a blogger but almost started one (still might lol) just because it seems the best way to utilize Sims 4. But at the end of the day, I just want to be able to play and have it be interesting without me having to help it along so much.
I like creating my own stories, but I shouldn't have to do it to keep it interesting. It's become a crutch in Sims 4 imo. They want you to tell your story so much that the slightest thing out of your control isn't even allowed anymore...
These two things right here are how I feel about this game.
- Will Wright
The Sims 4 has always felt sterilised to me when it comes to things like consequences. It tries so, so hard not to get in your way or throw a spanner in your plans and that right there is where it stops being a life simulator, I've said it before and I'll say it again. In life we all have plans and hopes and dreams and all that but more often than not something comes up that prevents us from achieving them. There's so many things that just fall flat.
In the original game back in 2000 fires were utterly devastating. Sure you could get the fireman over pretty quick if you had an alarm, but there was always the chance that when a Sim was extinguishing flames (including a fireman) there would be a bad reaction that would cause the fire to spread to about eight or ten squares instantly, which pretty much meant your kitchen was gone. On top of that fires killed Sims in a matter of seconds, and only another Sim could extinguish them - they couldn't save themselves at that point. In 4 you've got a sprinkler and fires might as well not be in the game, they're so inconsequential. Will had personal experience with fire and so he made sure it was a serious deal.
In 1 and 2 children or teens would lose an entire grade at school if they so much as missed one day. In 4 I've had teens take a week off and not lose a grade. The same goes with jobs for older Sims - in the past if you missed 2 days in a row you were fired outright whereas now it takes ages for the performance bar to drop. Sims who get bad grades in 4 get a sad moodlet. Sims in 1 and 2 who got bad grades were sent to military school and removed from the household.
In 2 and 3 if a partner was caught cheating then they could potentially be kicked out of the house right there and then, boom, gone. Relationships plummeted due to bad events like cheating or fighting because there was the fury system, an actual consequence for these sorts of things. Sims wouldn't be able to have a normal conversation for hours or days depending on the offence. In 4 it's all good, just high five your wife and all that.
In 2 if you had a teen in the house and you didn't look after their needs, aspiration or friendships then there was a chance they could run away. Reporting them as missing to the police within 24 hours made it likely that they would be found but if you didn't then there was a good chance they'd stay gone, only returning the day before their birthday. There were unique failure states for different age groups in that sense.
In 2 a vampire would die within less than a minute if they were so much as awake during the day, it didn't matter if they were indoors or not. Daytime equalled an untimely demise in true gothic fashion. Nowadays having an empty thirst bar won't even kill a vampire. In 3 vampires died by low thirst and had a really neat ghost (black with a visible, beating red heart and veins).
Chance cards in 4 are borderline meaningless little boxes of text that have next to no impact, either giving tiny rewards or moodlets, or moving an arrow a few centimetres along a performance bar. In 2 they had impacts, you could get demoted or lose your job for a wrong choice, or lose a day's pay, or on the opposite side of things, earn an instant promotion or a cash bonus. 3 had opportunities that could be anything from simple tasks like "repair this" or "go to this event" all the way up to going to travelling the world.
The Sims 4 just feels so utterly weak and stagnant. It tries so hard to be inoffensive and unproblematic and as such it's just dull. It hasn't been sterilised for kids, it has been sterilised for sensitive adults. Moving the Tom and Jerry level slap animation from the mean category to the mischief category because it could be construed as abusive? This is a game where you can lock your neighbours in your basement because your vampire doesn't feel like getting a take away.
Holy plum! I’d forgotten about military school lol and the social worker they didn’t mess around they’d take ALL your kids and teens on the lot iirc.
I’m going to play TS2 later I haven’t for a while.
—T
I think it still goes back to reflect the wishes of the people in charge instead of fans. Rachel Franklin who was over TS4 stated they felt the pointing of a finger was abusive. I don't, I think it's just a way to express something you feel deeply about. It's not in TS4 but was in the other iterations. Sort of proves my point those in charge actually make the rules rather than EA or the ESRB which states Teen- Violence.
Concerning me being in that thread about the kids showing up in night clubs. I was only pointing out Sim parents didn't care in TS4. Unlike in The Sims when Mortimor or Bella would show up to take Casandra home no matter where she was. But I don't think she ever showed up in Hot Date, Downtown, in a night club.
My problems with TS4's townie generator is (one) it doesn't send the correct Sims when other games did. Period. Going out is boring, the other games decide why a Sim should show up. Relationship, things in common, recent events, how that Sim would play into the life of your own, if they like the place or not, or they are the type of Sim to be out that late, all those things and many other things in the code are why Sims are sent to community lots in the other games. Even in TS2's character files of predestined townies) Goopy isn't going to show up every where nor just because nor because the game couldn't find someone more relative of why they go there, but as needed and for many different reasons.
If people want children in night clubs more power to them, however, I expect a game that swears it cares, to make a parent show up at some point. Or the whole TS4 is the best game ever statements won't fly with me, because no if it was super good, it would remember that kid has a parent somewhere.
I was like playing where are this kid's parents? No where, because it's just not that deep, since I can just delete that kid right there in the club, and the parent will never even cry because I deleted them. They will never even remember them, ever. Not ever. Shallow tools to tell stories isn't my idea of the best game ever. I can write stories outside of game all day long heck, I can take pictures of Barbie dolls and write captions under them, I expect a game to do more than that. OT, the AI is boring.
Case in point set your camera to the WC portal and watch what type of Sims come through the portals. One time it was all children, the next time it was all teens, and so on. Then you go to community lots to see more kids or more teens etc. Lazy generator filled with code such as recently to just produce one type of surnames. Let's just do it the easy way and no one will ever notice, right? No, hundreds of threads saying otherwise, there was nothing amazing about any of that these past five years.
We wnat to talk best game ever? GTW< I liked that pack up c'mon, shallow programing. Same Sims returning five minutes later the hospital and me screaming at screen, I just cured you! Then if not cured and left the hospital not sick when seen in public. Yeah, that's some deep programming right? To treat the same Sims over and over and no consequence for townies being sick since when they leave they are not. Fans of other iterations wouldn't have put up with such boring gameplay but we do. I have, knowing it was boring.
Children are not supposed to show up at nightclubs, especially not late at night, unattended unless the player is the one bringing them there. If they are showing up, then it's a bug that needs to be reported. If a player brings them to a club, then they have the exact same power of bringing their parents there to pick them up and play out the circumstance precisely as they mean to.
It may have been fixed. But the point I think is why wouldn't the game know that kid has a parent out there like it does in the others? It's just not that deep. Personally, I want the code of this game to be more intericate than things like that since day one, and was only possibly changed after many years of complaints. It went on for years, instead of sending a better selection of a Sim of a different age that may have been an enemy of one of many partners (to cause trouble) and or someone that could have boosted your Sim's life or made them miserable depeding on traits, things in common or not, etc. Sending a child townie (if not intended) should have been patched the first month in my opinion because it's one less slot for Sim that could possibly be a better reason to play out the events of whatever happens there.
I noticed mine is gone lol I did try to keep it PG rated, sorry if it was too much. I didn’t want to derail the thread.
—T
I have to set an alarm when I play Sims 3. Sims 4 is great for passing an hour.