Honestly I feel like Sims 4 build mode lacks in so many ways, so I don't view it as its strong point especially with what Paralives is previewing so far. If anything Sims 4 seems CAS focused and mainly towards YA females.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
The build mode certainly looks great, and something that would have been handy to have in the Sims games. But I'm wondering how the avatars are going to interact with it all and how the routing is going to play out. This level of customization makes me a little bit skeptical about the gameplay.
I really can't say I'm excited for this yet or whether I think it's going to compare to The Sims at all, because he hasn't revealed anything about the actual meat of the game. I'm not a builder at all, so my main interest is in the actual gameplay and customization with the avatars.
I admit, I have a few demands to my play style when it comes to these types of games, and there are certain creative freedoms that I need in order to play the game at all. But I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for more information as it progresses.
Yup, a thing some people don't know is that AI is extremely hard to do in games, like, it's not even comparable. One instance of indie game with AI I can think of is Yandere Simulator, and that game is in development hell to this very day and I don't think the game will ever be ready, and it is an extremely slugglish game to play, and the AI is not even that complex. That's one of the problems with developing AI: it's extremely hard to optimize it for performance.
And the worst thing is, it ins't that noticeable for the masses, it doesn't look flashy, most people wouldn't notice. Even those that do feel the difference can't exactly pinpoint what it is, The Sims 2 has the best AI of the franchise, but most people that prefer The Sims 2 don't exactly know why they do, they just "feel" like Sims in that game are better.
What Paralives is doing on the other hand looks much more impressive, but it is actually much simpler to do than what The Sims 4 is doing.
I can see why the developers of The Sims 4 focused on delivering the flashier features first and only then they started working on improving the actual Simulation, yeah it plum for people that have been playing the franchise for a long time and miss those things, but it is actually a smart thing to do. Face it guys, most people don't play this game that seriously, most people create a YA and self-insert, do some partying and that's it, they needed to profit because you know EA, if it doesn't profit it's not improved, it's shut-down entirely.
That's interesting, on the subject of programming AI for games. You would think that if cars can be self-driving, AI for games would be improved. Routing issues are much better in this iteration than in any previous Sims game, though it sometimes requires Sims to drop actions from the queue. (ie, send two Sims to get leftovers at the same time, one will drop the action from the queue. That's preferable to having them stuck forever, as they often were in S3, waiting their turn.)
I can see that AI would be difficult in a game scenario - the more options you have, the more things that are calling for the Sim's attention, and sorting through them and deciding which has the most weight takes some algorithm-crunching. If you've got multiple Sims doing it, I can see how lag would develop. And getting two Sims to come to the same conclusion (required for interaction between Sims) is yet another layer. At some point, developers have to decide which actions are going to take priority, and that might not agree with the player's priorities.
The build mode certainly looks great, and something that would have been handy to have in the Sims games. But I'm wondering how the avatars are going to interact with it all and how the routing is going to play out. This level of customization makes me a little bit skeptical about the gameplay.
I really can't say I'm excited for this yet or whether I think it's going to compare to The Sims at all, because he hasn't revealed anything about the actual meat of the game. I'm not a builder at all, so my main interest is in the actual gameplay and customization with the avatars.
I admit, I have a few demands to my play style when it comes to these types of games, and there are certain creative freedoms that I need in order to play the game at all. But I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for more information as it progresses.
Yup, a thing some people don't know is that AI is extremely hard to do in games, like, it's not even comparable. One instance of indie game with AI I can think of is Yandere Simulator, and that game is in development hell to this very day and I don't think the game will ever be ready, and it is an extremely slugglish game to play, and the AI is not even that complex. That's one of the problems with developing AI: it's extremely hard to optimize it for performance.
And the worst thing is, it ins't that noticeable for the masses, it doesn't look flashy, most people wouldn't notice. Even those that do feel the difference can't exactly pinpoint what it is, The Sims 2 has the best AI of the franchise, but most people that prefer The Sims 2 don't exactly know why they do, they just "feel" like Sims in that game are better.
What Paralives is doing on the other hand looks much more impressive, but it is actually much simpler to do than what The Sims 4 is doing.
I can see why the developers of The Sims 4 focused on delivering the flashier features first and only then they started working on improving the actual Simulation, yeah it plum for people that have been playing the franchise for a long time and miss those things, but it is actually a smart thing to do. Face it guys, most people don't play this game that seriously, most people create a YA and self-insert, do some partying and that's it, they needed to profit because you know EA, if it doesn't profit it's not improved, it's shut-down entirely.
That's interesting, on the subject of programming AI for games. You would think that if cars can be self-driving, AI for games would be improved. Routing issues are much better in this iteration than in any previous Sims game, though it sometimes requires Sims to drop actions from the queue. (ie, send two Sims to get leftovers at the same time, one will drop the action from the queue. That's preferable to having them stuck forever, as they often were in S3, waiting their turn.)
I can see that AI would be difficult in a game scenario - the more options you have, the more things that are calling for the Sim's attention, and sorting through them and deciding which has the most weight takes some algorithm-crunching. If you've got multiple Sims doing it, I can see how lag would develop. And getting two Sims to come to the same conclusion (required for interaction between Sims) is yet another layer. At some point, developers have to decide which actions are going to take priority, and that might not agree with the player's priorities.
But Maxis isn't just a little indie game company just starting out. This all should be old hand to them by now. They have been building AI for twenty years. If anything they should be showing what they have learned and blowing everyone else out of the water. Twenty years of experience On One Genre should have yielded more dazzle and not had to remove markers from objects or drop things from queue. And what's worse a closed world system where the game isn't even rendering all of game, or using telemetry to keep up with all Sims in game. This (AI) should have been a snooze walk.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
EA, if you haven't already seen this video, please take notes. This is the kind of innovation that I had expected to see in a Sims game, twenty years into the series. If Masse's character creation and gameplay are anywhere near as forward-thinking and imaginative as Mr. build mode, the Sims series is already way behind.
Please consider this as you lay the foundation for the inevitable successor to TS4. Please.
I'll buy this just for the building aspect. It looks amazing. Can you imagine how it will progress? It's called Paralives.
According to the developer’s Patreon, he is getting $3,450 a month in donations. Compared to the money that EA has at its disposal, it’s not a lot. Do you think it’s going to be enough money to develop a game which can rival TS4? That’s what worries me. I may have to join his Patreon.
ETA: I just did a quick google and apparently The Sims probably cost between $50 million and $100 million to develop
Then they would tell him all the things he can't do cause it's too expensive.
Yeah I want the competition anyways. Would help keep prices low when competitors break into the market and produce higher quality products. It has done wonders with Indie developers coming in for all the Steam games. Finally big industries are starting to tackle mental illness in games ever since games like Celeste and Gris came in.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
The build mode certainly looks great, and something that would have been handy to have in the Sims games. But I'm wondering how the avatars are going to interact with it all and how the routing is going to play out. This level of customization makes me a little bit skeptical about the gameplay.
I really can't say I'm excited for this yet or whether I think it's going to compare to The Sims at all, because he hasn't revealed anything about the actual meat of the game. I'm not a builder at all, so my main interest is in the actual gameplay and customization with the avatars.
I admit, I have a few demands to my play style when it comes to these types of games, and there are certain creative freedoms that I need in order to play the game at all. But I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for more information as it progresses.
Yup, a thing some people don't know is that AI is extremely hard to do in games, like, it's not even comparable. One instance of indie game with AI I can think of is Yandere Simulator, and that game is in development hell to this very day and I don't think the game will ever be ready, and it is an extremely slugglish game to play, and the AI is not even that complex. That's one of the problems with developing AI: it's extremely hard to optimize it for performance.
And the worst thing is, it ins't that noticeable for the masses, it doesn't look flashy, most people wouldn't notice. Even those that do feel the difference can't exactly pinpoint what it is, The Sims 2 has the best AI of the franchise, but most people that prefer The Sims 2 don't exactly know why they do, they just "feel" like Sims in that game are better.
What Paralives is doing on the other hand looks much more impressive, but it is actually much simpler to do than what The Sims 4 is doing.
I can see why the developers of The Sims 4 focused on delivering the flashier features first and only then they started working on improving the actual Simulation, yeah it plum for people that have been playing the franchise for a long time and miss those things, but it is actually a smart thing to do. Face it guys, most people don't play this game that seriously, most people create a YA and self-insert, do some partying and that's it, they needed to profit because you know EA, if it doesn't profit it's not improved, it's shut-down entirely.
Here’s hoping Paralives will be made for people who do play this game that seriously then. For me that will be the very difference between interested and not interested.
I see Paralives as more of a concept that I see EA using as comparative to improve The Sims, but I don't expect the game itself to be my cup of tea at all, they have shown zero actual Simulation gameplay, I believe the game will be amazing for builders and all but it will have a very shallow simulation, like, IMVU style, and this is the exact opposite of what I want.
He is working on the build mode,and will show the parallels later.We already know they are pets.
I've yet to see anything interesting about this game. They have shown zero images of what their characters are supposed to look like, or what sort of personalities we have. From what I understand, there is also zero interest in giving occults a try.
Hard pass.
The first character creation video is currently in development. It's still early days, we can't expect gameplay videos or demonstrations yet, and the fact that he's taking his time is a plus.
Alex has already confirmed that at least magic will follow the base game release and that he had ideas for it before people started asking about it. More could follow if people are interested.
I’m sold. Makin’ Magic got me into the sims because I like, well, magic., and if he’s said that then I’m interested. I was already but even more so now.
Ahh, what a breath of fresh air this is. Competition is just what we need. I’d like to try somebody else’s version of a life sim for a change. I love the sims, I always will, but it’s gone stale. This will either make it or break it if it does well.
According to the developer’s Patreon, he is getting $3,450 a month in donations. Compared to the money that EA has at its disposal, it’s not a lot. Do you think it’s going to be enough money to develop a game which can rival TS4? That’s what worries me. I may have to join his Patreon.
ETA: I just did a quick google and apparently The Sims probably cost between $50 million and $100 million to develop
Money doesn't actually matter as much for indie game development as it does for 'Triple-A' titles, most of the money that was spent on The Sims 4 goes into marketing it.
That’s good to know.
Yeah, it's strange to think of, but Indie games developers can make games that in some cases are far superior to the 'triple-A' titles with far less. Probably because they don't have big corporations breathing down their necks or stealing diverting money elsewhere... That and they usually have passion for the games they are making.
The Sims was not a triple A game when it came out - keep that in mind and EA did not own it - they financed and published The Sims - that is all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
According to the developer’s Patreon, he is getting $3,450 a month in donations. Compared to the money that EA has at its disposal, it’s not a lot. Do you think it’s going to be enough money to develop a game which can rival TS4? That’s what worries me. I may have to join his Patreon.
ETA: I just did a quick google and apparently The Sims probably cost between $50 million and $100 million to develop
Money doesn't actually matter as much for indie game development as it does for 'Triple-A' titles, most of the money that was spent on The Sims 4 goes into marketing it.
That’s good to know.
Yeah, it's strange to think of, but Indie games developers can make games that in some cases are far superior to the 'triple-A' titles with far less. Probably because they don't have big corporations breathing down their necks or stealing diverting money elsewhere... That and they usually have passion for the games they are making.
The Sims was not a triple A game when it came out - keep that in mind and EA did not own it - they financed and published The Sims - that is all.
That is another good point. A lot of games start off as small indie projects, but then expanded to more bigger projects.
I'm on the discord channel. They keep it up to date, help with problems, ask for suggestions and feedback. It is clear that the developer does care not only about everyone's opinions, but making this as successful as it can possibly be.
When Paralives comes out I will be done with The Sims franchise. They have pretty much signed their death sentence with this iteration.
I can't wait to see what this game has in store. The Sims has been vastly criticized lately and the Sims 4 is a disaster in terms of quality and fan service.
I'm curious to see what the characters will look like.
Let's not forget that City Skylines killed Simcity. So everything's possible. The Sims needs competition.
I can't wait to see what this game has in store. The Sims has been vastly criticized lately and the Sims 4 is a disaster in terms of quality and fan service.
I'm curious to see what the characters will look like.
Let's not forget that City Skylines killed Simcity. So everything's possible. The Sims needs competition.
I don't think that City Skylines killed Simcity. EA killed Simcity.
As for the Paras, I'm anxious to see them as well. So far, what little we've seen have been paddle-handed block figures. Hopefully, those are placeholders.
Mr. Masse is very ambitious. He has this fantastic, grand vision. More importantly, he has an obvious and genuine passion for what he's doing. Even so, he can't do this alone. If he keeps plugging at it and getting the word out, perhaps, he will obtain more substantial investment than what he is currently earning through Patreon. With any luck, that financial help will come from a person (or company) who is just as passionate about making a great game.
That's where people like us come in. Potential customers are the ones who can get the word out, draw more attention to what he is trying to accomplish.
There's always the possibility that EA will sue. They've done it before. Win or lose, they have deep enough pockets to drive out competition that way. I'm hoping they don't do that -- healthy competition is a good thing.
There's always the possibility that EA will sue. They've done it before. Win or lose, they have deep enough pockets to drive out competition that way. I'm hoping they don't do that -- healthy competition is a good thing.
I don't think EA sued the company behind Cities Skylines. You can't legally own a video game genre. That would be like being the only one with the right to write a romance novel. If EA does sue, they'd better somehow prove life simulation isn't a genre and is only possible to make by using the specific, likely copyrighted programming in The Sims instead of original and separate programming. Considering Paralives uses a different engine, that will be difficult for EA.
According to the developer’s Patreon, he is getting $3,450 a month in donations. Compared to the money that EA has at its disposal, it’s not a lot. Do you think it’s going to be enough money to develop a game which can rival TS4? That’s what worries me. I may have to join his Patreon.
ETA: I just did a quick google and apparently The Sims probably cost between $50 million and $100 million to develop
Money doesn't actually matter as much for indie game development as it does for 'Triple-A' titles, most of the money that was spent on The Sims 4 goes into marketing it.
That’s good to know.
Yeah, it's strange to think of, but Indie games developers can make games that in some cases are far superior to the 'triple-A' titles with far less. Probably because they don't have big corporations breathing down their necks or stealing diverting money elsewhere... That and they usually have passion for the games they are making.
The Sims was not a triple A game when it came out - keep that in mind and EA did not own it - they financed and published The Sims - that is all.
It technically still isn't a triple-A game, not that that particular title means much these days... It is and always will be a niche title.
EA didn't own it originally, back when it was good, now they DO own it and current Maxis is just a relabelled office of EA.
There's always the possibility that EA will sue. They've done it before. Win or lose, they have deep enough pockets to drive out competition that way. I'm hoping they don't do that -- healthy competition is a good thing.
I don't think EA sued the company behind Cities Skylines. You can't legally own a video game genre. That would be like being the only one with the right to write a romance novel. If EA does sue, they'd better somehow prove life simulation isn't a genre and is only possible to make by using the specific, likely copyrighted programming in The Sims instead of original and separate programming. Considering Paralives uses a different engine, that will be difficult for EA.
Unless they get gullible judge/jury, like the one in the Katy Perry case where she was sued over "Dark Horse".
Comments
That's interesting, on the subject of programming AI for games. You would think that if cars can be self-driving, AI for games would be improved. Routing issues are much better in this iteration than in any previous Sims game, though it sometimes requires Sims to drop actions from the queue. (ie, send two Sims to get leftovers at the same time, one will drop the action from the queue. That's preferable to having them stuck forever, as they often were in S3, waiting their turn.)
I can see that AI would be difficult in a game scenario - the more options you have, the more things that are calling for the Sim's attention, and sorting through them and deciding which has the most weight takes some algorithm-crunching. If you've got multiple Sims doing it, I can see how lag would develop. And getting two Sims to come to the same conclusion (required for interaction between Sims) is yet another layer. At some point, developers have to decide which actions are going to take priority, and that might not agree with the player's priorities.
But Maxis isn't just a little indie game company just starting out. This all should be old hand to them by now. They have been building AI for twenty years. If anything they should be showing what they have learned and blowing everyone else out of the water. Twenty years of experience On One Genre should have yielded more dazzle and not had to remove markers from objects or drop things from queue. And what's worse a closed world system where the game isn't even rendering all of game, or using telemetry to keep up with all Sims in game. This (AI) should have been a snooze walk.
I'll buy this just for the building aspect. It looks amazing. Can you imagine how it will progress? It's called Paralives.
Looks like the building already does rival it.
Then they would tell him all the things he can't do cause it's too expensive.
He is working on the build mode,and will show the parallels later.We already know they are pets.
I’m sold. Makin’ Magic got me into the sims because I like, well, magic., and if he’s said that then I’m interested. I was already but even more so now.
Ahh, what a breath of fresh air this is. Competition is just what we need. I’d like to try somebody else’s version of a life sim for a change. I love the sims, I always will, but it’s gone stale. This will either make it or break it if it does well.
—T
The Sims was not a triple A game when it came out - keep that in mind and EA did not own it - they financed and published The Sims - that is all.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
That is another good point. A lot of games start off as small indie projects, but then expanded to more bigger projects.
When Paralives comes out I will be done with The Sims franchise. They have pretty much signed their death sentence with this iteration.
I'm curious to see what the characters will look like.
Let's not forget that City Skylines killed Simcity. So everything's possible. The Sims needs competition.
I don't think that City Skylines killed Simcity. EA killed Simcity.
As for the Paras, I'm anxious to see them as well.
Mr. Masse is very ambitious. He has this fantastic, grand vision. More importantly, he has an obvious and genuine passion for what he's doing. Even so, he can't do this alone. If he keeps plugging at it and getting the word out, perhaps, he will obtain more substantial investment than what he is currently earning through Patreon. With any luck, that financial help will come from a person (or company) who is just as passionate about making a great game.
That's where people like us come in. Potential customers are the ones who can get the word out, draw more attention to what he is trying to accomplish.
I don't think EA sued the company behind Cities Skylines. You can't legally own a video game genre. That would be like being the only one with the right to write a romance novel. If EA does sue, they'd better somehow prove life simulation isn't a genre and is only possible to make by using the specific, likely copyrighted programming in The Sims instead of original and separate programming. Considering Paralives uses a different engine, that will be difficult for EA.
It technically still isn't a triple-A game, not that that particular title means much these days... It is and always will be a niche title.
EA didn't own it originally, back when it was good, now they DO own it and current Maxis is just a relabelled office of EA.
And that's perfectly fine, unless they do so under EA's banner... After which they get turned into cash-cows and/or slot machines.
Unless they get gullible judge/jury, like the one in the Katy Perry case where she was sued over "Dark Horse".