I think after 5 years some game changers are becoming really tired? In one week James, Lilsimsie, Plumbella,... good constructive criticism videos! But Im honestly waiting LGR because it will be my eternal fave when it comes to The Sims videos.
I saw his video and agreed, but at the same time I thought O..he done told the truth, I won't be surprised if he's some how no longer a game changer.
Nah he will be fine. Silly thing to remove him for. It takes a lot more like death threats to remove someone from the program. He didn't like the ball pit either and helped get that changed for the community. Silly to expect only praise from our game changers don't you think? They are Simmers just like us and honestly Sims 4 is the only game in the market that I have seen some customers demand constant praise for. A game should speak for itself with how good it is or not, not be puffed up with some PR nonsense. I mean how do you think some games like Fornite have thrived so well? They listen to their customers and yes they still get criticism and people that won't play their game like me who prefer Splatoon as a row game. I think people forget how businesses actually run and thrive. It isn't only by praise. I have seen negative consequences by people who only crave praise in their lives. I like how James cares about both the community and the Sims 4. It shows real humanity with him in a society that expects people to be sociopath robots. Will Weight built the Sims and one of the things he said is success isn't as rewarding if there isn't some failure along the way. I think Sims 4 has lost its roots of true success and failure in life.
I have made friends that later became game changers. They are aware the game has bugs and some know the QA Gurus very well. So no I know from personal experience he isn't the only one that knows the game has issues. It is often the larger fan bases of the GCs I have noticed that like to brush the game having bugs to the side. I am apart of Twitch communities that are aware of game bugs beyond just the Sims 4 or Sims community. The problem solver part of me like figuring what causes the bugs.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I studied game development and one of my teachers worked for EA during the end of the sims 2 and most of sims 3. And he told us that EA doesn't care about the sims at all. The sims are mostly their cash cow to finance their other games. But they don't care about the game in itself. They know it will sell no matter what. And it does because there is no other game like the Sims on the market. The sims makes a lot of money but only a tiny portion of that money is kept for the game. All the rest is used to finance EA's other games. The sims 4 budget is actually ridiculous. Which explains the lack of quality. And it's not gonna get better because EA truly doesn't care about this game. It's even a joke in the gaming industry. A "girl's game"....
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
I studied game development and one of my teachers worked for EA during the end of the sims 2 and most of sims 3. And he told us that EA doesn't care about the sims at all. The sims are mostly their cash cow to finance their other games. But they don't care about the game in itself. They know it will sell no matter what. And it does because there is no other game like the Sims on the market. The sims makes a lot of money but only a tiny portion of that money is kept for the game. All the rest is used to finance EA's other games. The sims 4 budget is actually ridiculous. Which explains the lack of quality. And it's not gonna get better because EA truly doesn't care about this game. It's even a joke in the gaming industry. A "girl's game"....
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
Right on! Have been saying the same thing for a long time now, though my info source is the financial statements not someone who was there. War and sports (civilized warfare) are EA's thing, Sims just a revenue source. Probably why they are keeping 4 going on for however many more years, maximize revenue for minimal expendature. Sooner or later it will bite them.
Hestia: I know several folks with a wide range of game involvement, and they refer to EA as the company that puts out broken games and never does anything about it.
I studied game development and one of my teachers worked for EA during the end of the sims 2 and most of sims 3. And he told us that EA doesn't care about the sims at all. The sims are mostly their cash cow to finance their other games. But they don't care about the game in itself. They know it will sell no matter what. And it does because there is no other game like the Sims on the market. The sims makes a lot of money but only a tiny portion of that money is kept for the game. All the rest is used to finance EA's other games. The sims 4 budget is actually ridiculous. Which explains the lack of quality. And it's not gonna get better because EA truly doesn't care about this game. It's even a joke in the gaming industry. A "girl's game"....
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
Because girls don’t deserve quality? I don’t get it.
EA: This game brings in massive amount of cash, has a huge userbase that's been built over the course of almost 20 years, and will always sell due to this dedicated fanbase. It's one of our hottest games, and the only game of its kind and scale on the market to this date.
Also EA: this game is apparently primarily played by women, so we'd rather just funnel all our cash into making a new FIFA every year since mostly men buy that game, which is more important to us as we all know men spend more money on games
Sims 4 players, looking at their game with all DLC installed and a like $600 hole in their wallet: yeah sure.
I studied game development and one of my teachers worked for EA during the end of the sims 2 and most of sims 3. And he told us that EA doesn't care about the sims at all. The sims are mostly their cash cow to finance their other games. But they don't care about the game in itself. They know it will sell no matter what. And it does because there is no other game like the Sims on the market. The sims makes a lot of money but only a tiny portion of that money is kept for the game. All the rest is used to finance EA's other games. The sims 4 budget is actually ridiculous. Which explains the lack of quality. And it's not gonna get better because EA truly doesn't care about this game. It's even a joke in the gaming industry. A "girl's game"....
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
Because girls don’t deserve quality? I don’t get it.
It sadly ties in with the whole idea that girls only play games to impress guys and aren't "true gamers". And that real games are strategy and/or warfare and everything else is for kids or girls because it's not dark and violent.
It's infuriating to see a significant portion of the gaming community and industry think this way. For me especially it's baffling - I've been away from games for years and when I did play more back then, there was next to no division between genders. If anything, most of the guys in our gaming friends circle couldn't keep up with several of the girls. (this was in times of the original Doom and Unreal Tournament lol)
But yeah, it's the attitude that girls aren't the players that are worth the effort and aren't the main target group by far for anything other than money. Sadly, it's probably not gonna change anytime soon.
It sadly ties in with the whole idea that girls only play games to impress guys and aren't "true gamers". And that real games are strategy and/or warfare and everything else is for kids or girls because it's not dark and violent.
It's infuriating to see a significant portion of the gaming community and industry think this way. For me especially it's baffling - I've been away from games for years and when I did play more back then, there was next to no division between genders. If anything, most of the guys in our gaming friends circle couldn't keep up with several of the girls. (this was in times of the original Doom and Unreal Tournament lol)
But yeah, it's the attitude that girls aren't the players that are worth the effort and aren't the main target group by far for anything other than money. Sadly, it's probably not gonna change anytime soon.
Yeah that's a shame. I know quite a few girls that play fps games and quite good at them too. I wish I was, but I do enjoy Splatoon. My days of playing MMOs I just don't have the time or energy to play them like I did even ten years ago. I know one of my friends in the gaming industry said he would pretend to be a girl in MMOs just so he could get help and free stuff, so I think he realizes being a girl does have its perks. But yeah was sad I remember SimGuruSteve was checking out the VRChat stream and asked, "Is this how girls are all treated?" referring to all the demeaning said about her in that game and I responded yep pretty much, welcome to online gaming for girls. I mean it sucks girls are treated like the weaker sex especially in a society that is adapting towards neutral gender labels. Like just because you are married and have follow the marriage vows, it means you are no longer independent to some. Or just because of having a moral code, you aren't considered an independent female.
Segregation and stereotypes really haven't done women a service. I entered into an industry that favors males with accounting. Have I had challenges because of that? Yes I have and then some in additional stereotypes. I feel like women are true gamers regardless of the games they choose to play whether it is a sports game, a first person shooter game, or the Sims. I am just tired that just because I am a female, that is all I want to simulate in my Sims games. No I want to simulate more than that and have the people I care about represented in the game male, female, or gender neutral. Married or unmarried. Modest or not modest. There is just so much more to women than their stereotypes and I hope that they can get a chance to express that in the video games they play. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I want to wear pink all the time or dress in the most frills and Barbie like things for my Sims. I want the Sims to have the choice to dress punk, dress goth, dress like a tomboy, dress in what they want to wear where they live, and have tats and piercings and shoes that aren't just high heels. I also want to dress up my dream guys, dress up elders that were so kind to me as a teenager, and dress up my dream kids and even portray some real family members too. I am more than just me, but I have a whole community that helped shape me to the woman I am today and I am proud of that. I just hope that one day, the Sims can portray that too.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I studied game development and one of my teachers worked for EA during the end of the sims 2 and most of sims 3. And he told us that EA doesn't care about the sims at all. The sims are mostly their cash cow to finance their other games. But they don't care about the game in itself. They know it will sell no matter what. And it does because there is no other game like the Sims on the market. The sims makes a lot of money but only a tiny portion of that money is kept for the game. All the rest is used to finance EA's other games. The sims 4 budget is actually ridiculous. Which explains the lack of quality. And it's not gonna get better because EA truly doesn't care about this game. It's even a joke in the gaming industry. A "girl's game"....
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
My Husband works in the industry and I can believe this, the sims is seen as a bit of a joke (won’t even tell you what they think of EA) in his work place. I’m in many other “hardcore” gaming communities and I don’t often reveal I’m a simmer nor do I often reveal I’m female as that can be held against you. Sad but true.
It’s a fact though that EA have deliberately targeted teenage girls with the Sims 4.
I studied game development and one of my teachers worked for EA during the end of the sims 2 and most of sims 3. And he told us that EA doesn't care about the sims at all. The sims are mostly their cash cow to finance their other games. But they don't care about the game in itself. They know it will sell no matter what. And it does because there is no other game like the Sims on the market. The sims makes a lot of money but only a tiny portion of that money is kept for the game. All the rest is used to finance EA's other games. The sims 4 budget is actually ridiculous. Which explains the lack of quality. And it's not gonna get better because EA truly doesn't care about this game. It's even a joke in the gaming industry. A "girl's game"....
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
Because girls don’t deserve quality? I don’t get it.
Because it's not considered like a real video game worthy of time and financial dedication.
Girl's game = joke
The fact that so many girls play this game has turned against it and ruined its reputation in the gaming industry.
In case you didn't know, all things highly appreciated by a majority of women are considered stupid and unworthy in the society we live in.
I remember during one of my class, our teacher who was one of the very few women teaching (and in the industry) said that nowadays women are up to 50% of the gaming population. She then said that most of those women play mobile games and the males began to laugh, say that mobile games are not real video games (mobile games are actually pretty despised in the gaming industry, especially by hardcore gamers) so women don't "really play video games". They play "Candy Crush" and "The Sims." Not taken seriously.
It's the sad reality and it's not helping the Sims build up in quality because the main public isn't male.
As someone mentioned it, EA focuses its energy on war games and FIFA - games directed at males.
The Sims however, is a little girl's game so not worthy of much.
Sexist but true.
This is all true and very sad. I once tried to do an online game development course and it didn't last long... I felt like I couldn't share my game ideas because they were too girly, I felt that I would be laughed at because my class mates were mostly Male. The teacher was Male too.
I ended up quitting it because it felt rushed and overpriced, much like EAs games these days. But mostly because I was a women with ideas for "silly girls games."
I am an guy that plays on both side of the fence Hardcore games and the Sims for I need an rush when I feel destructive and an game when I destroy too much, Sims game fills the need for me. But yes most guys do not play the game and more women do. I ask some male coworkers do they play the Sims and the response I get What's that? and when asked do you play COD they are quick to say Yes.
Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
I feel like women are true gamers regardless of the games they choose to play whether it is a sports game, a first person shooter game, or the Sims. I am just tired that just because I am a female, that is all I want to simulate in my Sims games. No I want to simulate more than that and have the people I care about represented in the game male, female, or gender neutral. Married or unmarried. Modest or not modest. There is just so much more to women than their stereotypes and I hope that they can get a chance to express that in the video games they play . Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I want to wear pink all the time or dress in the most frills and Barbie like things for my Sims. I want the Sims to have the choice to dress punk, dress goth, dress like a tomboy, dress in what they want to wear where they live, and have tats and piercings and shoes that aren't just high heels. I also want to dress up my dream guys, dress up elders that were so kind to me as a teenager, and dress up my dream kids and even portray some real family members too. I am more than just me, but I have a whole community that helped shape me to the woman I am today and I am proud of that. I just hope that one day, the Sims can portray that too.
I love this, and agree with everything, and I wish more game companies would work on the bolded part.
It's been really sad reading the recent comments on how EA, and other game companies/devs disrespectfully treat the sims, and it's sad that the game is suffering for it. I'm a female gamer, and okay, I do play mobile (anything by rayark is my fave), and the sims, but both those things have great examples of good representation, whereas COD-type games do not. I also love ''''serious'''' games like the witcher series, but sometimes I want a palette cleanser because well, most of these games, no matter how fun, have demeaning moments, so the sims is my go to.
Re the thread topic, I really hope the devs start listening to our concerns, as I want to recommend s4 because it's one of the most inclusive games out there, but atm the quality is not worth the price.
I agree with you all, I'm a woman and I play the sims. But I also love Skyrim and Fable III. Haven't played them in awhile but that's a separate issue, unrelated to the fact that I'm a woman. I would like to get into MMOs but I've heard sooo many bad stories about how women are treated or talked about that I don't feel like it's worth the trouble. I mean, I was harassed back in the early RuneScape days and I was only 12 then...I think this is a very real part of the overall issue with the sims, the main problem being EA, and not taking the game seriously because of the demographic. I hate it so much but it's not the first time I haven't been taken seriously because of who I am or what I look like.
(Side note, the gatekeeping of nonviolent games not being "real games" is SUCH bs. All video games are real games, from there it's just a discussion of quality and personal preference.)
This is all true and very sad. I once tried to do an online game development course and it didn't last long... I felt like I couldn't share my game ideas because they were too girly, I felt that I would be laughed at because my class mates were mostly Male. The teacher was Male too.
I ended up quitting it because it felt rushed and overpriced, much like EAs games these days. But mostly because I was a women with ideas for "silly girls games."
Many guys who play the Sims don't say it because they actually don't want to ruin their reputation as a tough male gamer. It's all the ridiculousness of the manly injunctions. Don't play girls stuff, don't be like a girl, don't be a girl. Be a boy, a man. Be the superior being you're supposed to be... And yeah we are in 2019 and many, many women and men still their raise their boys like that. The fear of the feminine, the fear of being "weak"... It's quite terrible but I don't think it will ever change, not as long as we live in a society that is so se***lly hierarchized and structured with "male" and "female" behaviors kept strictly separate...
It's actually funny in a sad way.
Regarding the Sims, many boys will admit that they enjoyed playing the first Sims game, before it was targeted at girls. The first part of the Sims 2 aswell. And then it shifted. The moment the Sims began to be seen and advertised as a girl's game (end of Sims 2 and Sims 3), it was over, boys kept away from it, not even trying it. I tried to explain to them that there was much more to the Sims than just changing diapers but nope, they won't hear it. And Sims 4 has definitely killed all serious. They advertised to teenage girls who partay and it made the game shallow and silly. Let's remember the Get Together dance... Cringey...
Personally, I'm also a hardcore gamer. I don't like sports games and games like COD (or most Rockstar games because that company is SO sexist, it's ugly, except for RDR2 which was a very nice surprise) but I was into MMOs as a teen and I love strong RTS, Simulation and RPG games. My favorite game is the Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Origins is a close second. But the fact that I'm a girl makes that there are many games that I don't play because of sexism. GTA is a good example.
We need more women in the industry. I have an example why. During a game project, I was the only "girl" of the team. All the rest were male, which is "normal" in the gaming industry. In the pitch of the game, there was only one female character proposed by the guys and, of course, they suggested that this lone female character be the prostitute of the village!!!!!!!! In 2017. I'm not joking. They genuinely began discussing the fact of adding a female prostitute to a game and have the other protagonists be male. Honestly, I don't even think they were aware of how unacceptable this was. Of course, I opened my mouth, I yelled and I passed yet again for the hysterical feminist that ruins all the fun.
This is all true and very sad. I once tried to do an online game development course and it didn't last long... I felt like I couldn't share my game ideas because they were too girly, I felt that I would be laughed at because my class mates were mostly Male. The teacher was Male too.
I ended up quitting it because it felt rushed and overpriced, much like EAs games these days. But mostly because I was a women with ideas for "silly girls games."
Many guys who play the Sims don't say it because they actually don't want to ruin their reputation as a tough male gamer. It's all the ridiculousness of the manly injunctions. Don't play girls stuff, don't be like a girl, don't be a girl. Be a boy, a man. Be the superior being you're supposed to be... And yeah we are in 2019 and many, many women and men still their raise their boys like that. The fear of the feminine, the fear of being "weak"... It's quite terrible but I don't think it will ever change, not as long as we live in a society that is so se***lly hierarchized and structured with "male" and "female" behaviors kept strictly separate...
It's actually funny in a sad way.
Regarding the Sims, many boys will admit that they enjoyed playing the first Sims game, before it was targeted at girls. The first part of the Sims 2 aswell. And then it shifted. The moment the Sims began to be seen and advertised as a girl's game (end of Sims 2 and Sims 3), it was over, boys kept away from it, not even trying it. I tried to explain to them that there was much more to the Sims than just changing diapers but nope, they won't hear it. And Sims 4 has definitely killed all serious. They advertised to teenage girls who partay and it made the game shallow and silly. Let's remember the Get Together dance... Cringey...
Personally, I'm also a hardcore gamer. I don't like sports games and games like COD (or most Rockstar games because that company is SO sexist, it's ugly, except for RDR2 which was a very nice surprise) but I was into MMOs as a teen and I love strong RTS, Simulation and RPG games. My favorite game is the Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Origins is a close second. But the fact that I'm a girl makes that there are many games that I don't play because of sexism. GTA is a good example.
We need more women in the industry. I have an example why. During a game project, I was the only "girl" of the team. All the rest were male, which is "normal" in the gaming industry. In the pitch of the game, there was only one female character proposed by the guys and, of course, they suggested that this lone female character be the prostitute of the village!!!!!!!! In 2017. I'm not joking. They genuinely began discussing the fact of adding a female prostitute to a game and have the other protagonists be male. Honestly, I don't even think they were aware of how unacceptable this was. Of course, I opened my mouth, I yelled and I passed yet again for the hysterical feminist that ruins all the fun.
It's terrible really.
Well, to be fair to EA in some regard, TS1 was originally targeted to teen boys. It is much harder to play and the player has to use a little bit more gray matter to solve problems for the Sim rather than just buying a reward potion and or a mood fixer and things added to later games to make them happier to gain a goal. As time went on their marketing team realised teen boys were not the ones buying the game but housewives, yes a term no longer used.
Now, they openly say the target isn't the long time fanbase (those older housewives? who liked difficulty) anymore but teen girls who use instagram (Their own words). And the games have become way too easy, too much ease on how to solve a Sim's problems and moods, and hardly any impact from low motives. I believe what I read here every day, TS4 players like it that way. So much so they will suggest toggles if anyone wants any more difficulty other than just drinking a potion (so easy to buy) to solve a mood, and really seem to prefer CAS over any part of gameplay.
So, in fairness to EA, I can see how the current fanbase of this series is helping shape it's future into just a little casual game of dress up. Noted players of the current iteration, will buy packs for clutter and clothes even if the quality of gameplay isn't up to expectations. I think marketing knows their market and probably quite happy with it.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Personally, I'm also a hardcore gamer. I don't like sports games and games like COD (or most Rockstar games because that company is SO sexist, it's ugly, except for RDR2 which was a very nice surprise) but I was into MMOs as a teen and I love strong RTS, Simulation and RPG games. My favorite game is the Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Origins is a close second. But the fact that I'm a girl makes that there are many games that I don't play because of sexism. GTA is a good example.
There's actually a fair few games with strong female leads. Like Horizon Zero Dawn, Hellblade - Senua's Sacrifice, Darksiders III (although I guess you need to have loved the first 2 to even want to play that), or AC Odyssey. You'll also have the option of playing a female character in the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077. Honestly, I love gaming too, I really do, but if I were to limit myself to games that are "not sexist" or "not geared towards men" I think I'd have missed out on quite a few excellent games.
I know it's a little OT but I did feel like replying to this since I very often hear this argument in reverse from men who won't play games because there is a female lead or because the game has a "SJW agenda". Games are games, they are worlds, they're fiction. Sure, there needs to be more female representation in the industry as a whole, no doubt about it, but GTA & the old God of War trilogy are 🐸🐸🐸🐸 fine games (the new one too but I wouldn't consider that very sexist anymore compared to the older ones).
Honestly, I'm sure some people find The Witcher sexist as well - not so much because of the story but because it's born out of a typical male fantasy world. I honestly couldn't care less if the protagonist is male/female, or whether the game is a little sexist. Because what matters is that the gameplay is good - at least for me - and that I'm having a good time. And that whatever sexism is there, actually fits the story. That's why it isn't bothersome perse in the Witcher cause .. well it's the right kind of setting for it. And it's why it's not as bothersome as you might think in, especially the newer, GTA games. And honestly, GTA without prostitutes? Yeah it'd be weird because it wouldn't fit the setting at all xD In the end, this mix between the right gameplay and the right atmosphere is what's most important. For any game, including the sims.
I think by playing things we find good, rather than only looking at whatever agenda we think they have, we're actually broadening the horizon of the gaming world. Maybe men would play the sims if we wouldn't stigmatize everything as much as we do - on both sides. A game where you can change diapers, have careers and families isn't in theory anymore "feminine" than a game with prostitutes is "only geared towards males". Sure it might appeal more to women/men (and there's no denying that TS has always appealed more to women - I even find the argument above that it was simplified for the common housewive to be far more sexist than whatever is in GTA V - no offence). In the end, whatever is in a game simply needs to fit the atmosphere and the story, and it needs to have decent gameplay.
This is all true and very sad. I once tried to do an online game development course and it didn't last long... I felt like I couldn't share my game ideas because they were too girly, I felt that I would be laughed at because my class mates were mostly Male. The teacher was Male too.
I ended up quitting it because it felt rushed and overpriced, much like EAs games these days. But mostly because I was a women with ideas for "silly girls games."
Many guys who play the Sims don't say it because they actually don't want to ruin their reputation as a tough male gamer. It's all the ridiculousness of the manly injunctions. Don't play girls stuff, don't be like a girl, don't be a girl. Be a boy, a man. Be the superior being you're supposed to be... And yeah we are in 2019 and many, many women and men still their raise their boys like that. The fear of the feminine, the fear of being "weak"... It's quite terrible but I don't think it will ever change, not as long as we live in a society that is so se***lly hierarchized and structured with "male" and "female" behaviors kept strictly separate...
It's actually funny in a sad way.
Regarding the Sims, many boys will admit that they enjoyed playing the first Sims game, before it was targeted at girls. The first part of the Sims 2 aswell. And then it shifted. The moment the Sims began to be seen and advertised as a girl's game (end of Sims 2 and Sims 3), it was over, boys kept away from it, not even trying it. I tried to explain to them that there was much more to the Sims than just changing diapers but nope, they won't hear it. And Sims 4 has definitely killed all serious. They advertised to teenage girls who partay and it made the game shallow and silly. Let's remember the Get Together dance... Cringey...
Personally, I'm also a hardcore gamer. I don't like sports games and games like COD (or most Rockstar games because that company is SO sexist, it's ugly, except for RDR2 which was a very nice surprise) but I was into MMOs as a teen and I love strong RTS, Simulation and RPG games. My favorite game is the Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Origins is a close second. But the fact that I'm a girl makes that there are many games that I don't play because of sexism. GTA is a good example.
We need more women in the industry. I have an example why. During a game project, I was the only "girl" of the team. All the rest were male, which is "normal" in the gaming industry. In the pitch of the game, there was only one female character proposed by the guys and, of course, they suggested that this lone female character be the prostitute of the village!!!!!!!! In 2017. I'm not joking. They genuinely began discussing the fact of adding a female prostitute to a game and have the other protagonists be male. Honestly, I don't even think they were aware of how unacceptable this was. Of course, I opened my mouth, I yelled and I passed yet again for the hysterical feminist that ruins all the fun.
It's terrible really.
I agree about boys not being allowed to show a feminine side to them. And it is sad... girls can be masculine, or a tomboy if you prefer, and no one bats an eye really. But if a boy likes something that is considered feminine then he must be gay or something... or is told to act like a man.
I have a 2 year old son and I don't plan on raising him that way. He can like whatever he likes, I don't care if it is considered a boys or a girls thing. One of his favorite movies to watch is The Trollz movie which is seen as a girl movie I think...
Wow, I would have reacted the same as you regarding the only female character being pitched as a prostitute. Actually I would have walked out of the room... that's unacceptable. Shows what they think of women. What's wrong with being a feminist anyway. They say it like it is an insult. I can't stand sexist stuff in my games personally. That's just me though...
I agree about boys not being allowed to show a feminine side to them. And it is sad... girls can be masculine, or a tomboy if you prefer, and no one bats an eye really. But if a boy likes something that is considered feminine then he must be gay or something... or is told to act like a man.
I have a 2 year old son and I don't plan on raising him that way. He can like whatever he likes, I don't care if it is considered a boys or a girls thing. One of his favorite movies to watch is The Trollz movie which is seen as a girl movie I think...
Wow, I would have reacted the same as you regarding the only female character being pitched as a prostitute. Actually I would have walked out of the room... that's unacceptable. Shows what they think of women. What's wrong with being a feminist anyway. They say it like it is an insult. I can't stand sexist stuff in my games personally. That's just me though...
That is such a shame. Yeah my nephew gets called gay just for having long eyelashes at school. Both him and his brother loved watching MLP and the Tinker Bell movies. Honestly boys should like what they wanna like and the same for girls. Actually if girls like boy things, they get called things too so it isn't just a one way street. But yes even talking to a good friend that said even in the LGTBQIA+ community they get stereotypes said towards them that is isn't a typical gay man just because they like masculine stuff. So it is like everyone gets stereotypes said about them whether they are male, female, or non-binary.
Yeah would love more lead female character in game that aren't dressed in near to nothing outfits. I used to love that in the old Tomb Raider games she used to be a lot more smart, but these days seems like she is even more sexualized than back then. At least some more girls are coming through some of the indie industry and other games like Celeste, Gris, and Control. Overwatch is pretty cool too.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I agree about boys not being allowed to show a feminine side to them. And it is sad... girls can be masculine, or a tomboy if you prefer, and no one bats an eye really. But if a boy likes something that is considered feminine then he must be gay or something... or is told to act like a man.
I have a 2 year old son and I don't plan on raising him that way. He can like whatever he likes, I don't care if it is considered a boys or a girls thing. One of his favorite movies to watch is The Trollz movie which is seen as a girl movie I think...
Wow, I would have reacted the same as you regarding the only female character being pitched as a prostitute. Actually I would have walked out of the room... that's unacceptable. Shows what they think of women. What's wrong with being a feminist anyway. They say it like it is an insult. I can't stand sexist stuff in my games personally. That's just me though...
That is such a shame. Yeah my nephew gets called gay just for having long eyelashes at school. Both him and his brother loved watching MLP and the Tinker Bell movies. Honestly boys should like what they wanna like and the same for girls. Actually if girls like boy things, they get called things too so it isn't just a one way street. But yes even talking to a good friend that said even in the LGTBQIA+ community they get stereotypes said towards them that is isn't a typical gay man just because they like masculine stuff. So it is like everyone gets stereotypes said about them whether they are male, female, or non-binary.
Yeah would love more lead female character in game that aren't dressed in near to nothing outfits. I used to love that in the old Tomb Raider games she used to be a lot more smart, but these days seems like she is even more sexualized than back then. At least some more girls are coming through some of the indie industry and other games like Celeste, Gris, and Control. Overwatch is pretty cool too.
The gender division and how it's used to bully is so frustrating. Especially to me as a parent. My kid got called out for wearing pants from the boy's section - she was 8, the kid who told her that she shouldn't be wearing them was maybe 6. And I mean, they're pants, it shouldn't be a big deal. It's so disheartening to know how early they learn this from their surroundings.
Even now, she gets crap for being friends with boys (or asked, at 12 years old, if they're her boyfriends ) or not liking to wear skirts.
The gaming community really is a reflection of the world as a whole, just unfortunately the really bad side is very visible there (and a feature, rather than a bug).
All we can do is support the games that don't show those kinda stereotypes and don't make the divide bigger (Overwatch is pretty good with this ) but it's likely a very long road still to go.
Part of why I love Sims is that there isn't this divide: no difference between what kinda jobs male and female Sims can get, the fact that we can play with masculine and feminine appearance (dear devs, please fix the fit of the clothes though, that'd be awesome). It's just unfortunately probably also part of why it's shoved aside as a girl game - no stereotypical builds for men and women like in way too many other games historically.
The gender division and how it's used to bully is so frustrating. Especially to me as a parent. My kid got called out for wearing pants from the boy's section - she was 8, the kid who told her that she shouldn't be wearing them was maybe 6. And I mean, they're pants, it shouldn't be a big deal. It's so disheartening to know how early they learn this from their surroundings.
Even now, she gets plum for being friends with boys (or asked, at 12 years old, if they're her boyfriends ) or not liking to wear skirts.
The gaming community really is a reflection of the world as a whole, just unfortunately the really bad side is very visible there (and a feature, rather than a bug).
All we can do is support the games that don't show those kinda stereotypes and don't make the divide bigger (Overwatch is pretty good with this ) but it's likely a very long road still to go.
Part of why I love Sims is that there isn't this divide: no difference between what kinda jobs male and female Sims can get, the fact that we can play with masculine and feminine appearance (dear devs, please fix the fit of the clothes though, that'd be awesome). It's just unfortunately probably also part of why it's shoved aside as a girl game - no stereotypical builds for men and women like in way too many other games historically.
Awe so sorry to hear about your daughter. Yeah I'm an aunt myself of three soon to be four kids. Schools are really tough these days. As hard as it was for me back in school, there is a whole other level with it now with social media. It does start early. Yes I totally agree with you about the gaming industry being a reflection of the world.
Yeah I love that too about the Sims franchise, any Sim can work any job, love anyone, and chase whatever dream they want. I was thrilled when the gender update got done because I had so many more pant options for my female Sims. Sims has always been called a girl game by Simmers since day one. I remember seeing an interview of Will Wright disagreeing with that which was neat. I think the game that got more boys into it was actually the Sims 3 because of the CAW and story options that game had. It really got guys that were playing MMO games into playing the Sims 3 with the collection system. I really miss the dark humor that was in the Sims too which I think attracted a broader audience into the series too.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Probably in the minority here, but am a guy (and an ancient one at that), and I play the Sims. Mostly 2 because that's the best of the series due to its deeper gameplay, much better developped sims, building tools that are more extensive, and in general is a well crafted game. Fully agree with you ladies that how women are treated in our society is shameful and ought not to be that way. They were made to be fully equal partners with men in taking care of the planet we live on, a calling that's been botched from the get-go.
Was never into sports (real or game), and have so 'had it' with war that can't even attend a July 4th fireworks show (flashbacks). So I play Sims to relax, get creative, vent work pressures in a hopefully constructive way, and sometimes even get/test story ideas. It's a shame that Sims has been so run down due to the stupid and immature attitudes out there, because there is so much potential in it, enough to be the absolute best game ever.
Comments
I have made friends that later became game changers. They are aware the game has bugs and some know the QA Gurus very well. So no I know from personal experience he isn't the only one that knows the game has issues. It is often the larger fan bases of the GCs I have noticed that like to brush the game having bugs to the side. I am apart of Twitch communities that are aware of game bugs beyond just the Sims 4 or Sims community. The problem solver part of me like figuring what causes the bugs.
It's quite sad and I had to pretend I didn't like this game otherwise no one would have taken me seriously.
Right on! Have been saying the same thing for a long time now, though my info source is the financial statements not someone who was there. War and sports (civilized warfare) are EA's thing, Sims just a revenue source. Probably why they are keeping 4 going on for however many more years, maximize revenue for minimal expendature. Sooner or later it will bite them.
Hestia: I know several folks with a wide range of game involvement, and they refer to EA as the company that puts out broken games and never does anything about it.
Also EA: this game is apparently primarily played by women, so we'd rather just funnel all our cash into making a new FIFA every year since mostly men buy that game, which is more important to us as we all know men spend more money on games
Sims 4 players, looking at their game with all DLC installed and a like $600 hole in their wallet: yeah sure.
It sadly ties in with the whole idea that girls only play games to impress guys and aren't "true gamers". And that real games are strategy and/or warfare and everything else is for kids or girls because it's not dark and violent.
It's infuriating to see a significant portion of the gaming community and industry think this way. For me especially it's baffling - I've been away from games for years and when I did play more back then, there was next to no division between genders. If anything, most of the guys in our gaming friends circle couldn't keep up with several of the girls. (this was in times of the original Doom and Unreal Tournament lol)
But yeah, it's the attitude that girls aren't the players that are worth the effort and aren't the main target group by far for anything other than money. Sadly, it's probably not gonna change anytime soon.
Segregation and stereotypes really haven't done women a service. I entered into an industry that favors males with accounting. Have I had challenges because of that? Yes I have and then some in additional stereotypes. I feel like women are true gamers regardless of the games they choose to play whether it is a sports game, a first person shooter game, or the Sims. I am just tired that just because I am a female, that is all I want to simulate in my Sims games. No I want to simulate more than that and have the people I care about represented in the game male, female, or gender neutral. Married or unmarried. Modest or not modest. There is just so much more to women than their stereotypes and I hope that they can get a chance to express that in the video games they play. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I want to wear pink all the time or dress in the most frills and Barbie like things for my Sims. I want the Sims to have the choice to dress punk, dress goth, dress like a tomboy, dress in what they want to wear where they live, and have tats and piercings and shoes that aren't just high heels. I also want to dress up my dream guys, dress up elders that were so kind to me as a teenager, and dress up my dream kids and even portray some real family members too. I am more than just me, but I have a whole community that helped shape me to the woman I am today and I am proud of that. I just hope that one day, the Sims can portray that too.
My Husband works in the industry and I can believe this, the sims is seen as a bit of a joke (won’t even tell you what they think of EA) in his work place. I’m in many other “hardcore” gaming communities and I don’t often reveal I’m a simmer nor do I often reveal I’m female as that can be held against you. Sad but true.
It’s a fact though that EA have deliberately targeted teenage girls with the Sims 4.
This is all true and very sad. I once tried to do an online game development course and it didn't last long... I felt like I couldn't share my game ideas because they were too girly, I felt that I would be laughed at because my class mates were mostly Male. The teacher was Male too.
I ended up quitting it because it felt rushed and overpriced, much like EAs games these days. But mostly because I was a women with ideas for "silly girls games."
I love this, and agree with everything, and I wish more game companies would work on the bolded part.
It's been really sad reading the recent comments on how EA, and other game companies/devs disrespectfully treat the sims, and it's sad that the game is suffering for it. I'm a female gamer, and okay, I do play mobile (anything by rayark is my fave), and the sims, but both those things have great examples of good representation, whereas COD-type games do not. I also love ''''serious'''' games like the witcher series, but sometimes I want a palette cleanser because well, most of these games, no matter how fun, have demeaning moments, so the sims is my go to.
Re the thread topic, I really hope the devs start listening to our concerns, as I want to recommend s4 because it's one of the most inclusive games out there, but atm the quality is not worth the price.
(Side note, the gatekeeping of nonviolent games not being "real games" is SUCH bs. All video games are real games, from there it's just a discussion of quality and personal preference.)
Many guys who play the Sims don't say it because they actually don't want to ruin their reputation as a tough male gamer. It's all the ridiculousness of the manly injunctions. Don't play girls stuff, don't be like a girl, don't be a girl. Be a boy, a man. Be the superior being you're supposed to be... And yeah we are in 2019 and many, many women and men still their raise their boys like that. The fear of the feminine, the fear of being "weak"... It's quite terrible but I don't think it will ever change, not as long as we live in a society that is so se***lly hierarchized and structured with "male" and "female" behaviors kept strictly separate...
It's actually funny in a sad way.
Regarding the Sims, many boys will admit that they enjoyed playing the first Sims game, before it was targeted at girls. The first part of the Sims 2 aswell. And then it shifted. The moment the Sims began to be seen and advertised as a girl's game (end of Sims 2 and Sims 3), it was over, boys kept away from it, not even trying it. I tried to explain to them that there was much more to the Sims than just changing diapers but nope, they won't hear it. And Sims 4 has definitely killed all serious. They advertised to teenage girls who partay and it made the game shallow and silly. Let's remember the Get Together dance... Cringey...
Personally, I'm also a hardcore gamer. I don't like sports games and games like COD (or most Rockstar games because that company is SO sexist, it's ugly, except for RDR2 which was a very nice surprise) but I was into MMOs as a teen and I love strong RTS, Simulation and RPG games. My favorite game is the Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Origins is a close second. But the fact that I'm a girl makes that there are many games that I don't play because of sexism. GTA is a good example.
We need more women in the industry. I have an example why. During a game project, I was the only "girl" of the team. All the rest were male, which is "normal" in the gaming industry. In the pitch of the game, there was only one female character proposed by the guys and, of course, they suggested that this lone female character be the prostitute of the village!!!!!!!! In 2017. I'm not joking. They genuinely began discussing the fact of adding a female prostitute to a game and have the other protagonists be male. Honestly, I don't even think they were aware of how unacceptable this was. Of course, I opened my mouth, I yelled and I passed yet again for the hysterical feminist that ruins all the fun.
It's terrible really.
Well, to be fair to EA in some regard, TS1 was originally targeted to teen boys. It is much harder to play and the player has to use a little bit more gray matter to solve problems for the Sim rather than just buying a reward potion and or a mood fixer and things added to later games to make them happier to gain a goal. As time went on their marketing team realised teen boys were not the ones buying the game but housewives, yes a term no longer used.
Now, they openly say the target isn't the long time fanbase (those older housewives? who liked difficulty) anymore but teen girls who use instagram (Their own words). And the games have become way too easy, too much ease on how to solve a Sim's problems and moods, and hardly any impact from low motives. I believe what I read here every day, TS4 players like it that way. So much so they will suggest toggles if anyone wants any more difficulty other than just drinking a potion (so easy to buy) to solve a mood, and really seem to prefer CAS over any part of gameplay.
So, in fairness to EA, I can see how the current fanbase of this series is helping shape it's future into just a little casual game of dress up. Noted players of the current iteration, will buy packs for clutter and clothes even if the quality of gameplay isn't up to expectations. I think marketing knows their market and probably quite happy with it.
There's actually a fair few games with strong female leads. Like Horizon Zero Dawn, Hellblade - Senua's Sacrifice, Darksiders III (although I guess you need to have loved the first 2 to even want to play that), or AC Odyssey. You'll also have the option of playing a female character in the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077. Honestly, I love gaming too, I really do, but if I were to limit myself to games that are "not sexist" or "not geared towards men" I think I'd have missed out on quite a few excellent games.
I know it's a little OT but I did feel like replying to this since I very often hear this argument in reverse from men who won't play games because there is a female lead or because the game has a "SJW agenda". Games are games, they are worlds, they're fiction. Sure, there needs to be more female representation in the industry as a whole, no doubt about it, but GTA & the old God of War trilogy are 🐸🐸🐸🐸 fine games (the new one too but I wouldn't consider that very sexist anymore compared to the older ones).
Honestly, I'm sure some people find The Witcher sexist as well - not so much because of the story but because it's born out of a typical male fantasy world. I honestly couldn't care less if the protagonist is male/female, or whether the game is a little sexist. Because what matters is that the gameplay is good - at least for me - and that I'm having a good time. And that whatever sexism is there, actually fits the story. That's why it isn't bothersome perse in the Witcher cause .. well it's the right kind of setting for it. And it's why it's not as bothersome as you might think in, especially the newer, GTA games. And honestly, GTA without prostitutes? Yeah it'd be weird because it wouldn't fit the setting at all xD In the end, this mix between the right gameplay and the right atmosphere is what's most important. For any game, including the sims.
I think by playing things we find good, rather than only looking at whatever agenda we think they have, we're actually broadening the horizon of the gaming world. Maybe men would play the sims if we wouldn't stigmatize everything as much as we do - on both sides. A game where you can change diapers, have careers and families isn't in theory anymore "feminine" than a game with prostitutes is "only geared towards males". Sure it might appeal more to women/men (and there's no denying that TS has always appealed more to women - I even find the argument above that it was simplified for the common housewive to be far more sexist than whatever is in GTA V - no offence). In the end, whatever is in a game simply needs to fit the atmosphere and the story, and it needs to have decent gameplay.
I agree about boys not being allowed to show a feminine side to them. And it is sad... girls can be masculine, or a tomboy if you prefer, and no one bats an eye really. But if a boy likes something that is considered feminine then he must be gay or something... or is told to act like a man.
I have a 2 year old son and I don't plan on raising him that way. He can like whatever he likes, I don't care if it is considered a boys or a girls thing. One of his favorite movies to watch is The Trollz movie which is seen as a girl movie I think...
Wow, I would have reacted the same as you regarding the only female character being pitched as a prostitute. Actually I would have walked out of the room... that's unacceptable. Shows what they think of women. What's wrong with being a feminist anyway. They say it like it is an insult. I can't stand sexist stuff in my games personally. That's just me though...
Yeah would love more lead female character in game that aren't dressed in near to nothing outfits. I used to love that in the old Tomb Raider games she used to be a lot more smart, but these days seems like she is even more sexualized than back then. At least some more girls are coming through some of the indie industry and other games like Celeste, Gris, and Control. Overwatch is pretty cool too.
The gender division and how it's used to bully is so frustrating. Especially to me as a parent. My kid got called out for wearing pants from the boy's section - she was 8, the kid who told her that she shouldn't be wearing them was maybe 6. And I mean, they're pants, it shouldn't be a big deal. It's so disheartening to know how early they learn this from their surroundings.
Even now, she gets crap for being friends with boys (or asked, at 12 years old, if they're her boyfriends
The gaming community really is a reflection of the world as a whole, just unfortunately the really bad side is very visible there (and a feature, rather than a bug).
All we can do is support the games that don't show those kinda stereotypes and don't make the divide bigger (Overwatch is pretty good with this
Part of why I love Sims is that there isn't this divide: no difference between what kinda jobs male and female Sims can get, the fact that we can play with masculine and feminine appearance (dear devs, please fix the fit of the clothes though, that'd be awesome). It's just unfortunately probably also part of why it's shoved aside as a girl game - no stereotypical builds for men and women like in way too many other games historically.
Yeah I love that too about the Sims franchise, any Sim can work any job, love anyone, and chase whatever dream they want. I was thrilled when the gender update got done because I had so many more pant options for my female Sims. Sims has always been called a girl game by Simmers since day one. I remember seeing an interview of Will Wright disagreeing with that which was neat. I think the game that got more boys into it was actually the Sims 3 because of the CAW and story options that game had. It really got guys that were playing MMO games into playing the Sims 3 with the collection system. I really miss the dark humor that was in the Sims too which I think attracted a broader audience into the series too.
Was never into sports (real or game), and have so 'had it' with war that can't even attend a July 4th fireworks show (flashbacks). So I play Sims to relax, get creative, vent work pressures in a hopefully constructive way, and sometimes even get/test story ideas. It's a shame that Sims has been so run down due to the stupid and immature attitudes out there, because there is so much potential in it, enough to be the absolute best game ever.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
i guess even the little calves can get bored with such putrid milk