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For those arguing why the Hijab & whatnot are not in a seperate pack:

Comments

  • LogisitcsLogisitcs Posts: 1,156 Member
    To be honest, rather than separating the stuff into a pack I would prefer it so that ye made it that we could turn off any item we don't want and stop it from showing up. It takes me forever to find my favourite items scrolling through all the other stuff sometimes because I always forget what pack everything's from. and there's so many things from other packs or the base game that I would never ever ever use that I would like to just turn off completely and make it easier to find the stuff I would use. Have it so that it'll show up if I download a SIM from the gallery wearing it, but it just doesn't show in my Cas items and random townies wouldn't generate wearing the items that you turn off either.

    I’d take this compromise. Some tool they provide that says “Would you like to remove this from your game?” - Yes.

    Gone hijabs. Gone turbans. Gone any religious inspired wear. Gone stupid Star Wars. Gone any real world influence.
  • SimChiSimChi Posts: 143 Member
    XxAirixX wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    XxAirixX wrote: »
    XxAirixX wrote: »
    It doesn't matter what you say as you aren't going to change people's mind.

    Now that they brought a religious item in, they need to bring in more or people will feel excluded (now I am fully expecting a cross for my goth and other sims or won't feel included. Already have no Native American items that I need as part Native American. I always feel sort of forgotten). Not everyone wants that in their game at all, so an optional pack would be a better option and please everyone instead of forcing it into games as people need to update the games. It does take up space in the game even if not used. It should be the players choice.

    I still feel they should of gone with something that represents the whole culture or country in order to be fair, stay neutral and show different cultures without exclusion. Not everyone in Middle Eastern countries wears that or are Muslims. There are quite a few different countries.

    I am also part Native American and you are right, there is nothing to represent this culture at all. Not even a dreamcatcher. So now I guess they will have to consider adding more tribal stuff, too. Who knows if they will get around to it. I hope so. Also, in the Island Living there is the Kava Bowl but I have been actually waiting for a Wok to be added in a patch or pack for a while now.

    Those items would be cool, especially since City Living brought in some Chinese dishes, so it makes sense to have a wok. I like the kava welcome welcome wagon as it was a nice cultural touch and they even added some Filipino decor which people are happy about.

    It would be nice to have some pottery, kachina dolls and some beadwork, etc...



    Couple things here need to be brought up. For education sake, not contention.

    There are many 'Native" (North American) tribes, not all of whom believe in,or use, dreamcatchers. There are Many tribes, who have different practices and beliefs, and many individuals within those groups who do not subscribe to all practices either... But if you do want a dreamcatcher, there are CC ones available.

    2: Not all islanders agree with the use of drugs/alcohol (Kava), and it is offensive to them to have that stereotyped into the game. Just as not all islanders agree with playing with spirits.

    Hope this informs (rather than angers) people a little more.

    I am well aware, I never said there was just one tribe. Please don't treat people like we don't know, that itself is offensive. I can't discuss every single tribe though as there are like 500.

    Also I didn't bring up the dreamcatchers, someone else did. I bring up the little Hopi dolls.

    My apologies, I was addressing a couple things, to a couple people (because you had the other person's quote within yours). I should have addressed each individual with a tag. I thought I was being clear when I said that I wanted to address a couple things, but I guess not :)

    But, I was under the impression, based on you saying "I like the kava welcome welcome wagon as it was a nice cultural touch", that you thought Kava represented a whole culture... Which is does not (and I wanted to clarify- because it is offensive to those individuals within that culture, friends of mine, to see Kava as their "culture"- rather than Kava being specific to those who indulge in the practice).

    To @MsKatieRose which tribe, and what practices would you like that represents what you feel represents your native heritage? And what specific thing is it about those items that you like? Asking because I am curious what your heritage (which tribe, specifically) uses, and for what?
  • nerdfashionnerdfashion Posts: 5,947 Member
    I understand why people don't want religion in their game.

    What I don't understand is why people have to be rude about it. There are lots and lots of Muslim people, and I'm sure plenty of them play the Sims 4. I don't understand much about Muslim culture, but I do know that they deserve the same representation as Christians and Jews and all the other religions and religious groups out there. If you don't want it, that's fine, that's up to you. But you don't have to insist that it should have never been in the game in the first place!
    funny-gifs20.gif

  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    keekee53 wrote: »
    MadameLee wrote: »
    Logisitcs wrote: »
    I’m stunned by 2 things:

    1.) People seem to think a HIJAB is cultural wear woman wear in the Middle East and elsewhere. No. It is not. It is religious. And a symbol of oppression. Women are jailed for refusing to wear hijabs in Iran.

    2.) That the mods here are closing threads because they’re discussing religion... WHEN THE DEVS HAVE INTRODUCED A RELIGIOUS SYMBOL IN THE GAME!!!!

    Yes, the Hijab is religious wear, but it is not solely that anymore. Many wear their Hijab, not just for religion anymore. A girl from my university wore a Hijab despite not following any religion, she did it because it created a special relationship with her family where only they could see her entirely. Of course, this does not mean her idealization of the Hijab is not sprouted from the oppression of women in those countries, but is not the only reason anymore.

    Yeah and we have to remember one time until 70s Christan women had to cover their heads- hence why we see hats in stuff like Pollyanna (Hailey Mills version) and Anne of Green Gables

    Huh? Where do you get this stuff?

    look up Pollyana.. and look up Anne of Green Gables it wasn't acceptable for women until the 70s or 80s to have our head uncovered in church.
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  • MelmackMelmack Posts: 212 Member
    I wonder if this had been in the base game from the beginning if any one would have cared/noticed.... I wonder what this outrage war would have been about instead?
  • izecsonizecson Posts: 2,875 Member
    edited September 2019
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.
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  • RobinGreenthumbRobinGreenthumb Posts: 237 Member
    edited September 2019
    Really, the fact that people throw such a big fit over differences existing in their game, honestly disturbs me. They just basically want a game that not even for 10 seconds before they swap a sim’s clothes doesn’t even remind them that people outside their narrow beliefs exist.

    In a life simulator.

    Ah well.

    Geeze though. It does crack me up a bit to think how much they would flip out if religion WAS actually added to the game in a cohesive level in a game pack. I mean, I would love it because as a filthy Heathen I could pagan it up to my heart’s content, but I wonder how many statues of Norse deities or African Traditional religions’ gods it would take to have people REALLY clutching their pearls?
  • keekee53keekee53 Posts: 4,328 Member
    MadameLee wrote: »
    keekee53 wrote: »
    MadameLee wrote: »
    Logisitcs wrote: »
    I’m stunned by 2 things:

    1.) People seem to think a HIJAB is cultural wear woman wear in the Middle East and elsewhere. No. It is not. It is religious. And a symbol of oppression. Women are jailed for refusing to wear hijabs in Iran.

    2.) That the mods here are closing threads because they’re discussing religion... WHEN THE DEVS HAVE INTRODUCED A RELIGIOUS SYMBOL IN THE GAME!!!!

    Yes, the Hijab is religious wear, but it is not solely that anymore. Many wear their Hijab, not just for religion anymore. A girl from my university wore a Hijab despite not following any religion, she did it because it created a special relationship with her family where only they could see her entirely. Of course, this does not mean her idealization of the Hijab is not sprouted from the oppression of women in those countries, but is not the only reason anymore.

    Yeah and we have to remember one time until 70s Christan women had to cover their heads- hence why we see hats in stuff like Pollyanna (Hailey Mills version) and Anne of Green Gables

    Huh? Where do you get this stuff?

    look up Pollyana.. and look up Anne of Green Gables it wasn't acceptable for women until the 70s or 80s to have our head uncovered in church.

    My grandmother born in 1928 in the South and a Christian all her life has never had to cover her head in church for religious purposes. They sure wore a lot of fancy hats but it was not for religious reasons, it was definitely for fashion..LOL I will take a look at your suggestions tomorrow morning. I am heading to bed.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 4,845 Member
    Pollyanna and Anne were both set between 1900-1910, well before the 70s. There are plenty of movies and books after them depicting woman without hats...
    And while there is a part in the Bible that says that women should have their hair covered in church, those were supposed to be for a particular culture in a particular time period. These early 1900s style hats or for fashion, not religion. The hair covering thing for religion is supposed to cover all of the hair and these hats did not do that.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    edited September 2019
    I really don’t care if the content is there, I just think EA would’ve been wiser to make this its own pack (as well as the other free CAS items they’ve included such as “It’s On Us,” pride content, etc.).

    It’s a far better way of delivering this content to players who desire it.
  • doedeardoedear Posts: 303 Member
    Wulfsimmer wrote: »
    *sigh* Surprised people have to explain this but here goes:

    Are you seriously comparing the amount of content in the Holidays pack to this patch which has "Islamic" (even though, it is more cultural than anything but let's go with how the community is describing it) content which can be counted on your fingers? Are you genuinely convinced that they should make packs for EVERYTHING remotely representative? Because if so, that means the LGBTQ+ content should've had a pack and it didn't and we are all fine with it.

    Simple, don't use it. "But BUT BUT TOWNIES WILL BE GENERATED WITH THESE OUTFITS Dx!!!" We don't know that yet, they may have unique tags, so chill.

    uh no people weren't lol

  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 612 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.

    Certainly no hate speech.

    I didn't know women could wear crop tops with low-rise jeans in Islam, I guess that's something. Or must they cover that too? Cover as much as men and then some?

    This sounds ancient to me, and almost trying to make men and women seem like aliens to each other, not one human race.

    I don't care what Mary wore, if she existed, I don't care about her or her book. Her story isn't exactly feminist, anyway, so I don't see a defense there. I'm not pro-Christian or any theism.
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  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 612 Member
    Really, the fact that people throw such a big fit over differences existing in their game, honestly disturbs me. They just basically want a game that not even for 10 seconds before they swap a sim’s clothes doesn’t even remind them that people outside their narrow beliefs exist.

    In a life simulator.

    Ah well.

    Geeze though. It does crack me up a bit to think how much they would flip out if religion WAS actually added to the game in a cohesive level in a game pack. I mean, I would love it because as a filthy Heathen I could pagan it up to my heart’s content, but I wonder how many statues of Norse deities or African Traditional religions’ gods it would take to have people REALLY clutching their pearls?

    That's true but I don't want to be triggered while playing and I like to "paint" my world to be somewhat better than ours.

    People could really abuse such a pack, also throw in some villains.
    "Challenge everything"
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  • PlayerSinger2010PlayerSinger2010 Posts: 3,267 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.

    Certainly no hate speech.

    I didn't know women could wear crop tops with low-rise jeans in Islam, I guess that's something. Or must they cover that too? Cover as much as men and then some?

    This sounds ancient to me, and almost trying to make men and women seem like aliens to each other, not one human race.

    I don't care what Mary wore, if she existed, I don't care about her or her book. Her story isn't exactly feminist, anyway, so I don't see a defense there. I'm not pro-Christian or any theism.

    Have you met any Muslims? Genuine question.

    I have. Many of them in fact. I work with them, I live among them. Yes, some Muslims wear crop tops and short shorts, bikinis, and other such "revealing" clothing, especially in the summer. Some of them have been in plays that the school does that involves things like uhhhh woohoo to put it mildly. It's all very risque stuff.

    Like any religion, there are some that ascribe to a strict adherence of the Quran, and others that are more lenient when it comes to things like clothing.
  • DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,472 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.

    Certainly no hate speech.

    I didn't know women could wear crop tops with low-rise jeans in Islam, I guess that's something. Or must they cover that too? Cover as much as men and then some?

    This sounds ancient to me, and almost trying to make men and women seem like aliens to each other, not one human race.

    I don't care what Mary wore, if she existed, I don't care about her or her book. Her story isn't exactly feminist, anyway, so I don't see a defense there. I'm not pro-Christian or any theism.

    No, Muslim women cannot wear crop tops to show their belly. I mean technically, they can, but it is a sin. So if they want to get a sin, they can wear that. LOL.

    And yes, it's a bit ancient but there's also a lot of modern Muslims nowadays who don't follow that such as myself. I don't wear the hijab but I do try to be conservative else where, I won't wear a crop top. :sweat_smile:

    And are you quoting yourself as a feminist? Cuz if you are, you need to stop. Cuz I'm also consider myself a feminist (more for equality) and my head hurts reading what you have to say.
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  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 612 Member
    izecson wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.

    Certainly no hate speech.

    I didn't know women could wear crop tops with low-rise jeans in Islam, I guess that's something. Or must they cover that too? Cover as much as men and then some?

    This sounds ancient to me, and almost trying to make men and women seem like aliens to each other, not one human race.

    I don't care what Mary wore, if she existed, I don't care about her or her book. Her story isn't exactly feminist, anyway, so I don't see a defense there. I'm not pro-Christian or any theism.

    Have you met any Muslims? Genuine question.

    I have. Many of them in fact. I work with them, I live among them. Yes, some Muslims wear crop tops and short shorts, bikinis, and other such "revealing" clothing, especially in the summer. Some of them have been in plays that the school does that involves things like uhhhh woohoo to put it mildly. It's all very risque stuff.

    Like any religion, there are some that ascribe to a strict adherence of the Quran, and others that are more lenient when it comes to things like clothing.

    I think so. I don't really talk to people. "No peopling allowed." I read instead.

    And I meant to say by suggestion of the Islamic teaching, are women not told to cover up more than men? For those who follow the more conservative ways, do they wear the belly tops? That is actually what I meant.

    "Like any religion" ... don't assume I respect other religions. But yes, I was asking about the somewhat more strict adherence, at least ones that would make men cover their navels and knees.
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  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 612 Member
    DeKay wrote: »
    izecson wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.

    Certainly no hate speech.

    I didn't know women could wear crop tops with low-rise jeans in Islam, I guess that's something. Or must they cover that too? Cover as much as men and then some?

    This sounds ancient to me, and almost trying to make men and women seem like aliens to each other, not one human race.

    I don't care what Mary wore, if she existed, I don't care about her or her book. Her story isn't exactly feminist, anyway, so I don't see a defense there. I'm not pro-Christian or any theism.

    No, Muslim women cannot wear crop tops to show their belly. I mean technically, they can, but it is a sin. So if they want to get a sin, they can wear that. LOL.

    And yes, it's a bit ancient but there's also a lot of modern Muslims nowadays who don't follow that such as myself. I don't wear the hijab but I do try to be conservative else where, I won't wear a crop top. :sweat_smile:

    And are you quoting yourself as a feminist? Cuz if you are, you need to stop. Cuz I'm also consider myself a feminist (more for equality) and my head hurts reading what you have to say.

    So what was the point of bringing up that men have to cover stuff? Don't they have to cover less? So it is a moot point?

    I wasn't quoting myself as anything there, there I was referring to the topic. However, I won't "stop:" I am a raging feminist, always have been, always will be through changing times. I am also for equality, not LESS for equality, I don't know if that's what you referred to. We can call ourselves feminists and still disagree on points. We come from very different lives with different teachings and views, it's normal to not see things the same way. It's offensive to tell someone to "stop." Perhaps you misunderstand what I type because I can't see the fuzz.

    For the record, as a reminder, I've been saying that men and women should wear the hijab equally. Before then I'm sometimes uncomfortable with it and I don't want to see ONLY female SIMS wear it, that hurts. I don't like the implications I'm reminded of by it. Our society is poisoned by the world's past, we can't unsee things. We're all products of our upbringing, of the Hollywood/TV of our youth (if we have such things - In America it's been in abundance, very psychologically imposing), of the advertising we've had blasted at us our whole lives, society telling us what we must and can't be ... our choices aren't always really ours. Some people don't even believe in free will (that it truly exists for us).
    "Challenge everything"
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  • DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,472 Member
    edited September 2019
    DeKay wrote: »
    izecson wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    🔪🔪🔪 Get back at them. LET'S GO.

    Uhmm... What's with the violence? I think people have concerns, which this doesn't help with... Especially since you said you are a Muslim.

    It would be nice to hear what the Muslim people in the forums (simmers) feel that the Hijab is, for them, personally. And, to hear from Muslim people if this actually is a religious item (and if men wear it- or why not, if they don't?).

    There are many people who speak for others, and it is not always accurate... But, we have so many issues that really ought to be talked about. Those who said they don't support having something (clothing/religious item?) which is seen as an oppression of women- Do you support cheating spouses in your game (because lolz?), or do you support overtly sexualized clothing on women (there are some women who have experienced the oppression of that over-sexualization and disrespect).



    LOL, I'm not being violent. It's just an emoji. 😂 😂 I'm not gonna kill you all. Calm down. Sorry if it offended you. 🙈

    I can't remember if it was in this thread or not, but I said I don't see the hijab as a religious clothing. Now, where I come from, we are not being oppressed to wear hijabs. It's actually a choice. 😁 But I cannot speak for other countries that are more strict.

    Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves.

    "Oh and also men don't wear hijabs. Hijabs are worn by women to "cover" themselves to "conserve" themselves."

    That's the problem. Why should women conserve themselves? Why shouldn't men conserve themselves? This is the pointing to the main problem.

    That's why I want to flip it.

    Why are you asking me this? I'm not God or the Prophet. Don't question people's religion. The only thing I know is that they do that cuz sometimes men tend to oversexualize women or stare at them (and they get a sin when they do), and that's why they make that rule. 🤷‍♀️

    I wasn't asking you but asking in general, although you seem to be fine with it, sadly. I'm not, not even a bit. It's based on stereotypes and lies, by the way. Men have been socialized to act that way, they're not any lustier than women, really. I stare at hot people (I'm a woman). Some women are very visual, some men aren't. Religion built up these gender lies. Our society is still poisoned by this.

    "they get a sin when they do" according to that religion, NOT a fact.

    Asking in general, is it OK for women to "get sins" when they objectify men (or other women)? I suppose Islam assumes women don't. What a laugh! How sad. And this burden is on the women to protect men from this sinning. Wrong.

    And I will always question people's religions every day.

    ETA: I was also "asking" as a thought-exercise thing. We humans should think deeply about everything. Ponder and question WHY.

    Hate speech right here. please educate yourself before posting anything that you dont know about. men and women in Islam have different awrah (body part they have to cover from opposite sex that are not related to them) Men also need to cover their entire belly button up to knee even to another men. if you think hijab is only for Islam then you're wrong. even virgin mary wore it.

    Certainly no hate speech.

    I didn't know women could wear crop tops with low-rise jeans in Islam, I guess that's something. Or must they cover that too? Cover as much as men and then some?

    This sounds ancient to me, and almost trying to make men and women seem like aliens to each other, not one human race.

    I don't care what Mary wore, if she existed, I don't care about her or her book. Her story isn't exactly feminist, anyway, so I don't see a defense there. I'm not pro-Christian or any theism.

    No, Muslim women cannot wear crop tops to show their belly. I mean technically, they can, but it is a sin. So if they want to get a sin, they can wear that. LOL.

    And yes, it's a bit ancient but there's also a lot of modern Muslims nowadays who don't follow that such as myself. I don't wear the hijab but I do try to be conservative else where, I won't wear a crop top. :sweat_smile:

    And are you quoting yourself as a feminist? Cuz if you are, you need to stop. Cuz I'm also consider myself a feminist (more for equality) and my head hurts reading what you have to say.

    So what was the point of bringing up that men have to cover stuff? Don't they have to cover less? So it is a moot point?

    I wasn't quoting myself as anything there, there I was referring to the topic. However, I won't "stop:" I am a raging feminist, always have been, always will be through changing times. I am also for equality, not LESS for equality, I don't know if that's what you referred to. We can call ourselves feminists and still disagree on points. We come from very different lives with different teachings and views, it's normal to not see things the same way. It's offensive to tell someone to "stop." Perhaps you misunderstand what I type because I can't see the fuzz.

    For the record, as a reminder, I've been saying that men and women should wear the hijab equally. Before then I'm sometimes uncomfortable with it and I don't want to see ONLY female SIMS wear it, that hurts. I don't like the implications I'm reminded of by it. Our society is poisoned by the world's past, we can't unsee things. We're all products of our upbringing, of the Hollywood/TV of our youth (if we have such things - In America it's been in abundance, very psychologically imposing), of the advertising we've had blasted at us our whole lives, society telling us what we must and can't be ... our choices aren't always really ours. Some people don't even believe in free will (that it truly exists for us).

    Weren't you the one who asked me why men don't need to cover themselves? I've already explained myself and I don't want to explain again. And if you're gonna ask me why there is no set rule that Muslim men don't need to wear a hijab to cover themselves, I suggest you visit a mosque or a Muslim education center and talk to an Ustaz. Cuz I don't think I have the "credentials" to talk about these things either cuz I'm not highly religious. :grimace: I merely know the basic stuff and sometimes I like to question some stuff to my mom too and she gets mad about it and gives a whole lecture on the religion. LOL.
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  • simmerLellasimmerLella Posts: 612 Member
    @DeKay Yes. Well, OK, but it was also a general question and such. (And yes, trying to make a point AKA "arguing," shock shock.)

    I'll probably Google some books or something.
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  • logionlogion Posts: 4,712 Member
    Because some people don't want the sims to be a choice about these things.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,997 Member
    I think it’s disgraceful to the gaming community as a whole that all this fan base wants is more DLC to pay for. We got this for free. As much as I critique The Sims 4 for what it is, it’s ridiculous with what some of you complain about.

    This is why we can’t have nice things for The Sims 4.
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  • SimChiSimChi Posts: 143 Member
    edited September 2019
    DeKay wrote: »
    Weren't you the one who asked me why men don't need to cover themselves? I've already explained myself and I don't want to explain again. And if you're gonna ask me why there is no set rule that Muslim men don't need to wear a hijab to cover themselves, I suggest you visit a mosque or a Muslim education center and talk to an Ustaz. Cuz I don't think I have the "credentials" to talk about these things either cuz I'm not highly religious. :grimace: I merely know the basic stuff and sometimes I like to question some stuff to my mom too and she gets mad about it and gives a whole lecture on the religion. LOL.

    This is why people are getting confused... You said that asking why men don't wear hijab needs to be asked to someone else (besides you)- because it's religious. I hope this is making more sense as to why people are saying they don't want hijab (because it is a religious item) in their game... You are actually saying it is religious (saying one needs credentials to discuss it, and that you can't because you're not highly religious).

    This next part is not directed at you DeKay, it is to address others...

    Again (for others) what hijab, or any other thing, means to one person is not (necessarily) what it means to another. And, just because someone does not want it (or other things) in their game ... it does not make them racist (or ___phobic). People not wanting (whatever thing) in their game have reasons (some of which you may not want to hear, or some people may be ignorant to, or some people may be thoughtless about, or .....). There are even some people screaming "inclusivity and tolerance", but those (some) people sure don't have any when it comes to actually listening (and respecting) why another person doesn't want ____ in their game (and many of those people get mocked when they try to explain that they had a serious traumatic experience/s with ____).

    An example, less contentious, though sometimes heated with rudeness and name calling.... I have tattoos. I have had numerous ignorant comments about them (and people assume way too much about me, based on them). I also (as an individual) can understand that seeing someone who is covered in tattoos may cause trauma on some other folks (who have had only experienced tattooed people = gangs, or other things- like drugs). I don't want those people (who are afraid) to be forced to be around me... Why would I want my presence to create trauma? Though... It could be said (by some people) that those (who are afraid) should "get over it". I would say that those people are rude, thoughtless, and not empathetic. Am I like those gang folks? No. Do I think my tattoos should be accepted? No.. Though I wish they didn't cause fear in someone else- but forcing that on someone (who is deeply afraid) is not at all what I want. I understand fear (and yes, it can be what some people think is irrational- mainly people who don't talk to, or understand, the trauma of another).

    The same goes for a situation in which my very best friend (who was more akin to a brother that I always wanted) got a new girlfriend and she didn't want him around me - because she had trust issues. It was really difficult for me to "lose" that best friend (he was the only 'safe' male in my life, sadly)... But I respected that his gf came from the trauma of having been cheated on, and I wanted her to heal- as did he (how amazing is he, in my eyes, even more so because he loved that woman so much that he respected her request, and never made fun of her for it!). Neither of us blamed her for her trauma, nor did we add to her pain by dismissing her and calling her jealous... We moved to a different space in our lives (and yes, it was sad, but worth it- he married her, and then after 15 years she was comfortable enough to trust him). She healed- because we gave her that space (respected her trauma).

    Anyway.... Force is not the way to create anything good. But I think if EA wants to do this 'representing life' (or controlling your own world) then they maybe need to realize what an enormous task that is... And should actually ask themselves if it really is (truly) possible, and how, exactly, they can accomplish such a task... Personally, I think having the ability to turn off things (like violence, certain clothing, certain behaviours, ect., is a start).

  • DeKayDeKay Posts: 81,472 Member
    edited September 2019
    SimChi wrote: »
    DeKay wrote: »
    Weren't you the one who asked me why men don't need to cover themselves? I've already explained myself and I don't want to explain again. And if you're gonna ask me why there is no set rule that Muslim men don't need to wear a hijab to cover themselves, I suggest you visit a mosque or a Muslim education center and talk to an Ustaz. Cuz I don't think I have the "credentials" to talk about these things either cuz I'm not highly religious. :grimace: I merely know the basic stuff and sometimes I like to question some stuff to my mom too and she gets mad about it and gives a whole lecture on the religion. LOL.

    This is why people are getting confused... You said that asking why men don't wear hijab needs to be asked to someone else (besides you)- because it's religious. I hope this is making more sense as to why people are saying they don't want hijab (because it is a religious item) in their game... You are actually saying it is religious (saying one needs credentials to discuss it, and that you can't because you're not highly religious).

    [...]

    Gawd, I am not saying the hijab is religious. I'm simply telling simmerLella to ask someone more religious cuz she's asking me why men don't wear hijabs or cover themselves which is totally out of the question and topic.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again, HIJABS ARE NOT RELIGIOUS but they are worn to cover the skin!! Other pieces of clothing also cover the skin but you all don't see it as religious and neither do Muslims.

    It needs to be asked by someone else cuz simmerLella over here keeps on questioning my religion and I may not have the answers to everything. Cuz when I was younger, we were not told to ask questions like this and just learn to accept it. I never had to ask any of my elders why men don't wear hijabs, therefore, I don't have the correct answer for that and that's why I suggest she asks someone who actually knows more about the religion.

    I'm not asking her to ask someone more religious because hijab is a religious thing but rather, I would want them to hear it from a more 'professional' person. Makes sense?

    It's like you are asking someone why is it so important to eat vegetables and exercise; I can give you some reasons that I've learned but it's always better to ask a nutritionist this question rather than just some random person online.

    I only tell you all what I know and believe in. That's all. But if you want to dig deep into my religion, this is where I would have to ask you go to someone who has studied and understood the rules and laws of this religion.

    That being said, I don't know why the heck EA decided to add headscarves like this in the game cuz I just know people are gonna be super sensitive about it. And I wish they would just take it out. Cuz seeing all the hate here is really saddening.

    Just to make myself clear:

    Hijabs are not sacred objects (which is why I say it's not religious per se). They only serve a purpose. Our religion doesn't actually mind others who aren't Muslims to wear headscarves as long as they respect it. :)

    Religious objects to me would be crucifixes, cross necklaces, the Bible, Quran, prayer mats etc.

    I hope I make myself clear, just in case.
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  • i really don't care about the hijab being put into the basegame, what angers me is the hypocrisy of the devs.
    they told us for so long that they would never include religion, but of course that doesn't matter when they can use said religion to collect their woke points.
    b0xOjnQ.png
    i'm waiting for my church lot, maxis.

    "It isn't our place to discuss religion as game developers."

    *puts content that could be construed as religious in the game*
    Madotsuki-Chair-Spin.gif
  • SimmyFroggySimmyFroggy Posts: 1,762 Member
    For any of those arguing that women in Christian culture never had to cover their hair and that hats in churches were just a fashion choice: untrue. While some wore hats as just a pretty accessory and still do, you’ll definitely find more traditional people even nowadays who think women should wear some sort of head covering, at least once they’re married. Parts of Eastern Europe even have a wedding tradition called capping where the bride has a cap/hat put on that she is then expected to wear when she’s in public.
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