But Jewish attire is not? If pleading for other religious clothing is blocked on the ground that it is religious, then they failed to brand the current update right if they think that it is not religious.
I'd love some Jewish stuff - we already have the menora and stuff. And A LOT of Christmas stuff. So I don't know why you're whining.
Christmas stuff is actually in a separate pack, so that you can avoid downloading it. Other topics asking for religion based outfits in this whole general forum have been closed left and right today, which is my precise issue.
As far as I see, most Christmas stuff is part of the Seasons EP and can hardly be avoided if you want to have weather.
Waiting on the catholic robes and other Christian based attire its never coming EA has an agenda and all these recent forced patch updates are shouting it loudly.
Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
I refuse to believe that people are this stupid - never mind that they used the word 'muslim' - there's nothing specifically religious about the content - it's cultural content that can be used in many different ways. For crying out loud.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
The other threads weren't shut down because they were asking for other outfits. They were shut down because they turned into religious arguments and people attacking EA for this addition. Also, there ARE other cultural outfits. Some outfits are associated with both religion and culture.
I'm locking this discussion here. As you know, we have a rule on the forums against discussing religion because, as it's already happening here, things don't tend to remain respectful and polite.
As it has been commented here already, we've created content inspired by other cultures in the past. We decided to bring Muslim-inspired content to The Sims 4 because we are upholding our values of belonging and inclusivity, and want to provide players with opportunities to accurate represent themselves in game and play with life."
Pardon my English, but this gives me a feeling that we do not have the right to ask for other religious inspired clothing due to it being religious?
People have been asking for hijabs for years, so apparently we do. However, they're also associated with a wider culture than say, a Catholic nun's habit or a clerical collar.
I refuse to believe that people are this stupid - never mind that they used the word 'muslim' - there's nothing specifically religious about the content - it's cultural content that can be used in many different ways. For crying out loud.
I'm sorry, but this is precisely why I'm confused and why I just suggest re-branding it. If it's Muslim, it's religious. If it's cultural, then it wasn't necessary to add a religion onto it.
I refuse to believe that people are this stupid - never mind that they used the word 'muslim' - there's nothing specifically religious about the content - it's cultural content that can be used in many different ways. For crying out loud.
I'm sorry, but this is precisely why I'm confused and why I just suggest re-branding it. If it's Muslim, it's religious. If it's cultural, then it wasn't necessary to add a religion onto it.
You're upset over a wording. The mind boggles.
Allons-y!
---> Afterlife Game Pack Idea - improved ghosts, cemeteries and funerals, psychics, new skills, new career and more! <---
So they can add Muslim-inspired clothing to the game but we can’t make threads or posts on this forum, the forum of the official game, regarding religion?
Are they going to change that rule or what because it sounds extremely hypocritical.
Same here. I don't like this at all. Religion should NEVER be included in a game like the sims. AND monotheistic religions go AGAINST LGBT and gender equality (women = stoned, queer people = hung). The hijab is a symbol of female subjugation. Showing the hair is shameful and a lack of modesty and women who don't wear the hijab are considered haram (impure). Everyone who knows Islam and has read the Quran knows this. This is literary the Middle Ages! And it should never be advocated in a game that makes gender equality their biggest selling point. This is nuts. Wrong move Maxis. Wrong move. What were they thinking. I don't approve. I don't want this in my game. You can't promote Islam (or Monotheistic religions as a whole) and pretend to be LGBT friendly or be for gender equality! It doesn't make any sense!
I don't mean to be disrespectful at all here but political correctness has its limit!
@XxAirixX like someone already said above- we have a Menorah in the downloadable holiday pack and that's Jewish. Everything we associate with Christmas, (The tree, mistletoe, etc) including the week of it were all pagan religious symbols.
Honestly, I can understand people not wanting this content in their game for multiple reasons, but I just think it's so stupid to use the argument that there's no Christian content in The Sims, so there shouldn't be others as well. This is clearly about including the minorities and making them feel represented. Since when are Christians minorities? Christian "culture" is everywhere. Including The Sims. The way marriage is represented, the way death is represented, the very fact that there's thanksgiving in The Sims. The only possible way for EA to represent Christians more would be to add crosses and nuns in the game.
Seriously the biggotry and intollerance of other cultures i am witnessing here and on twitter is frankly despicable.
I agree that there has been some mislabeling here. If there is specifically an existing rule that other religions cannot be named in game and items relating to other faiths are given ambiguous titles and included in holiday packs only then they probably should have followed suit with these items. However, we have recently had updates with carribean and chinese new year themes and nobody had an issue with them at all. I think that choosing to increase the diversity of the base game through including new cultural identities from around the world is absolutely superb and is fantastically inclusive. It allows players a choice of culturally inspired looks for both their sims and their builds and that is something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. If this pack had been rightly refered to as middle eastern it would have been a lot clearer to all that this is about location and cultural identity, not religion. If the clothes and build buy items had been much more specifically religious then i would understand the anger when other religions are not represented in the game. but when we have menorahs and christmas trees in game already i dont really truly understand where this vitrolic anger is coming from. Hijabs and the other clothing items included ARE cultural and worn by non islamic people in middle eastern countries. I know a christian missionary who lives in turkey who wears a head scarf, because that is the cultural norm in the area where she lives.
However i'd love for you to tell me what a christian wears as a cultural clothing item, not a religious symbol? Don't we already have traditional church like windows and build buy decor in game from the vampire and strangerville packs? Please dont tell me that you want dog collars and nun outfits because i simply dont believe you if you are trying to tell me that you, as a practising christian but NOT a religious leader/worker choose to wear a dog collar/nun's habit around town. Jewish Kippah's are a bit different, they are more specifically a religious sign/symbol in the same way wearing a cross is 'a christian thing'. Honestly, i would have no objection to a manger scene, a cross/jesus statue, a cross necklace, a kippah and fedoras and payot curls (as worn by hasidic Jews), and a variety of headscarves and niqabs (to represent the varying religious cultures around the globe that result in women choosing to cover their heads or skin in some way) being added to the game through an optional religion pack, for people to be able to represent religions IF they want to.
Why are we fighting to keep diversity out of a game. Make it so that its only inclusive if you're a white westerner? Why cant people from the middle east and Asia and africa and south america and scandinavia and eastern europe feel like they are represented in this game, that they are seen and heard and EXIST. why should they only be able to achieve their own culture through custom content? Who are we to say that our own faith and our own culture is the only one? We should be encouraging MORE of this type of content, a new cultural identity with each major update would be frankly amazing for me. Let me create an Islamic family if i want to. Let me create a Hasidic 🐸🐸🐸🐸 family if i want to. Let me create a nice little church chapel for my country village in windenburg, let me create an eastern european family to move in next door, Let me create a south american neighbourhood in oasis springs, and Aussie resort island in Sulani. Why is ANY of this taking anything away from a game where the whole point is to create a world through our own eyes, the way we want it to be. If the content is there but its not to your taste or relevant to your personal gaming style you just dont use it!!! How can it be any more simple than that? Adding diversity and cultural identities and new ways to style and create in this game can only ever be a good thing.
And while I’m here, why was a menorah added to the game but they can’t call Christmas, “Christmas”? It has to be called “Winterfest”?
It’s almost like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
Because many religions have a "christmas" tradition, but it's not called like that everywhere. So why don't give it a generic name so everyone would be represented?
@XxAirixX like someone already said above- we have a Menorah in the downloadable holiday pack and that's Jewish. Everything we associate with Christmas, (The tree, mistletoe, etc) including the week of it were all pagan religious symbols.
Downloadable holiday pack was put there and not in a free update in case people didn't want religion in their game. This update is not treated the same way, as it is seen as cultural.
Now to Jewish attire, both of the coats that men wear in those pictures are highly traditional, the haircut with sideburns left long and curled (even children wear that one here), wigs are often used and it's weird to explain because you can tell that they're wigs. It's called a "Shietel" and they often look similar to this:
There are also several different hats for men and headscarves for women.
@XxAirixX like someone already said above- we have a Menorah in the downloadable holiday pack and that's Jewish. Everything we associate with Christmas, (The tree, mistletoe, etc) including the week of it were all pagan religious symbols.
You forget that not every Holiday is celebrated religiously. Christmas is pretty much secular now, so anyone can celebrate it. There is the big difference.
By the way, they call it Winterfest with Santa Claus, which is not religious.
Where are crosses though? I want them for my goth sims at least. It's only fair.
And while I’m here, why was a menorah added to the game but they can’t call Christmas, “Christmas”? It has to be called “Winterfest”?
It’s almost like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
You can just call it Christmas though. Literally change the text.
Irrelevant.
What I’m saying is the game chose not to use the word “Christmas” due to religious connotation but they’re perfectly fine with including a menorah which has religious connotation.
Again, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
This is not meant as an inflammatory post, I just think that the tweet that was delivered on Twitter was done rather wrongly.
Islam is a religion. "Muslim inspired clothing" is religious clothing, not cultural clothing. I don't think that it is fair to keep your fans from asking for "Christian clothing" when the tweet implies that it is religious clothing that you are adding. As if you are choosing to represent religion, I want Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism represented too.
That is indeed correct. Islam is a religion not a culture. If the DEVs are going to bring in Muslim related content so that people can represent themselves in the game, I think it is only respectful and fair that Christian, Jewish, and other religious related content should be added so that others can represent themselves as well.
If they want to open the door up and include religious items from a variety of religions then so be it.
If they want to say “no religious items period” then so be it.
But do not mix the two together and expect for people not to be upset and confused. You can’t have a bit of one but completely cover up another. It’s absolutely ridiculous and offensive.
Honestly, I can understand people not wanting this content in their game for multiple reasons, but I just think it's so stupid to use the argument that there's no Christian content in The Sims, so there shouldn't be others as well. This is clearly about including the minorities and making them feel represented. Since when are Christians minorities? Christian "culture" is everywhere. Including The Sims. The way marriage is represented, the way death is represented, the very fact that there's thanksgiving in The Sims. The only possible way for EA to represent Christians more would be to add crosses and nuns in the game.
Thanksgiving is an American holiday, not part of any specific faith. Personally, I would love a nativity display added to the holiday pack, one that DOES NOT function like a dollhouse (the modded one I found). Marriage in-game is not representation of any faith either as there is no one performing the ceremony. So your examples are debunked. All you mentioned are not based on any faith.
I can understand why this is a controversial subject as the clothing is often associated with if people are forced to wear it or not. So i do find it a little strange that they add it in a free update as some might feel that removes the "optional" part of the clothing with it.
And while I’m here, why was a menorah added to the game but they can’t call Christmas, “Christmas”? It has to be called “Winterfest”?
It’s almost like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
You can just call it Christmas though. Literally change the text.
Irrelevant.
What I’m saying is the game chose not to use the word “Christmas” due to religious connotation but they’re perfectly fine with included a menorah which has religious connotation.
Again, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
There are Christmas trees and Father Winter who brings you presents. You can sing carols. I built a church and made a church club. They give speeches and sing and play the organ.
Here's a theory of mine of why they called it Muslims wear is probably because we as a society mostly connected it to Muslims community either rightly or wrongly thinking of it as a symbol of repression. I mean last summer or 2 summers ago in a town in Ontario, Canada a man tried to rip a hijab off a woman's head who only crime was shopping in the same store with her infant child that the Islamophobic man was in. The only real religious symbol in the whole pack is the man's cap. Since like others said-hijab can used by non-Muslims and it can keep the (fictional) sand out of women's eyes/hair. Go to Egypt and look at Egyptian Christan women.
And while I’m here, why was a menorah added to the game but they can’t call Christmas, “Christmas”? It has to be called “Winterfest”?
It’s almost like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
You can just call it Christmas though. Literally change the text.
Irrelevant.
What I’m saying is the game chose not to use the word “Christmas” due to religious connotation but they’re perfectly fine with included a menorah which has religious connotation.
Again, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
There are Christmas trees and Father Winter who brings you presents. You can sing carols. I built a church and made a church club. They give speeches and sing and play the organ.
You clearly do not understand what I am saying and rather than continue to fruitlessly go back and forth with you on the matter, I would ask that you no longer quote me in this thread.
Comments
As far as I see, most Christmas stuff is part of the Seasons EP and can hardly be avoided if you want to have weather.
People have been asking for hijabs for years, so apparently we do. However, they're also associated with a wider culture than say, a Catholic nun's habit or a clerical collar.
I'm sorry, but this is precisely why I'm confused and why I just suggest re-branding it. If it's Muslim, it's religious. If it's cultural, then it wasn't necessary to add a religion onto it.
You're upset over a wording. The mind boggles.
Are they going to change that rule or what because it sounds extremely hypocritical.
I don't mean to be disrespectful at all here but political correctness has its limit!
@mirta000 what is Jewish attire besides for men that little cap they wear? Are you taking about Orthdox Judaism, or Hasidic Judaism? https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/jewish-clothing/ (Orthdox Jewish women when married hide their natural hair with either a)hat b)a wig or c)a scarf)
It’s almost like the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
look up the Saturnalia the week/day that Christmas "stole".
I agree that there has been some mislabeling here. If there is specifically an existing rule that other religions cannot be named in game and items relating to other faiths are given ambiguous titles and included in holiday packs only then they probably should have followed suit with these items. However, we have recently had updates with carribean and chinese new year themes and nobody had an issue with them at all. I think that choosing to increase the diversity of the base game through including new cultural identities from around the world is absolutely superb and is fantastically inclusive. It allows players a choice of culturally inspired looks for both their sims and their builds and that is something that has absolutely NOTHING to do with religion. If this pack had been rightly refered to as middle eastern it would have been a lot clearer to all that this is about location and cultural identity, not religion. If the clothes and build buy items had been much more specifically religious then i would understand the anger when other religions are not represented in the game. but when we have menorahs and christmas trees in game already i dont really truly understand where this vitrolic anger is coming from. Hijabs and the other clothing items included ARE cultural and worn by non islamic people in middle eastern countries. I know a christian missionary who lives in turkey who wears a head scarf, because that is the cultural norm in the area where she lives.
However i'd love for you to tell me what a christian wears as a cultural clothing item, not a religious symbol? Don't we already have traditional church like windows and build buy decor in game from the vampire and strangerville packs? Please dont tell me that you want dog collars and nun outfits because i simply dont believe you if you are trying to tell me that you, as a practising christian but NOT a religious leader/worker choose to wear a dog collar/nun's habit around town. Jewish Kippah's are a bit different, they are more specifically a religious sign/symbol in the same way wearing a cross is 'a christian thing'. Honestly, i would have no objection to a manger scene, a cross/jesus statue, a cross necklace, a kippah and fedoras and payot curls (as worn by hasidic Jews), and a variety of headscarves and niqabs (to represent the varying religious cultures around the globe that result in women choosing to cover their heads or skin in some way) being added to the game through an optional religion pack, for people to be able to represent religions IF they want to.
Why are we fighting to keep diversity out of a game. Make it so that its only inclusive if you're a white westerner? Why cant people from the middle east and Asia and africa and south america and scandinavia and eastern europe feel like they are represented in this game, that they are seen and heard and EXIST. why should they only be able to achieve their own culture through custom content? Who are we to say that our own faith and our own culture is the only one? We should be encouraging MORE of this type of content, a new cultural identity with each major update would be frankly amazing for me. Let me create an Islamic family if i want to. Let me create a Hasidic 🐸🐸🐸🐸 family if i want to. Let me create a nice little church chapel for my country village in windenburg, let me create an eastern european family to move in next door, Let me create a south american neighbourhood in oasis springs, and Aussie resort island in Sulani. Why is ANY of this taking anything away from a game where the whole point is to create a world through our own eyes, the way we want it to be. If the content is there but its not to your taste or relevant to your personal gaming style you just dont use it!!! How can it be any more simple than that? Adding diversity and cultural identities and new ways to style and create in this game can only ever be a good thing.
You can just call it Christmas though. Literally change the text.
Because many religions have a "christmas" tradition, but it's not called like that everywhere. So why don't give it a generic name so everyone would be represented?
Downloadable holiday pack was put there and not in a free update in case people didn't want religion in their game. This update is not treated the same way, as it is seen as cultural.
Now to Jewish attire, both of the coats that men wear in those pictures are highly traditional, the haircut with sideburns left long and curled (even children wear that one here), wigs are often used and it's weird to explain because you can tell that they're wigs. It's called a "Shietel" and they often look similar to this:
There are also several different hats for men and headscarves for women.
You forget that not every Holiday is celebrated religiously. Christmas is pretty much secular now, so anyone can celebrate it. There is the big difference.
By the way, they call it Winterfest with Santa Claus, which is not religious.
Where are crosses though? I want them for my goth sims at least. It's only fair.
Lets make this a reality!
Irrelevant.
What I’m saying is the game chose not to use the word “Christmas” due to religious connotation but they’re perfectly fine with including a menorah which has religious connotation.
Again, the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing.
That is indeed correct. Islam is a religion not a culture. If the DEVs are going to bring in Muslim related content so that people can represent themselves in the game, I think it is only respectful and fair that Christian, Jewish, and other religious related content should be added so that others can represent themselves as well.
If they want to open the door up and include religious items from a variety of religions then so be it.
If they want to say “no religious items period” then so be it.
But do not mix the two together and expect for people not to be upset and confused. You can’t have a bit of one but completely cover up another. It’s absolutely ridiculous and offensive.
Thanksgiving is an American holiday, not part of any specific faith. Personally, I would love a nativity display added to the holiday pack, one that DOES NOT function like a dollhouse (the modded one I found). Marriage in-game is not representation of any faith either as there is no one performing the ceremony. So your examples are debunked. All you mentioned are not based on any faith.
There are Christmas trees and Father Winter who brings you presents. You can sing carols. I built a church and made a church club. They give speeches and sing and play the organ.
You clearly do not understand what I am saying and rather than continue to fruitlessly go back and forth with you on the matter, I would ask that you no longer quote me in this thread.
Thank you.