So, the reason, in my opinion has already been stated here, it would have taken more work and or more time to program the game to make children Non MiniMe's of the adults. Because that has been the complaint since day one, kids in the game are just shorter adults.
This is one of my main problems too. Children (and teens for that matter) just feel like adults with less actions they can perform. Some understandably, others not so much [Kids not being able to do magic, not being able to walk dogs (even though they can train them), barely being able to become famous etc.]
It feels like they literally took an adult model, shrunk it down, removed some things and said, "bam, those are kids". There's barely anything unique to children outside of being able to play with toys (most of which is all just one animation). Kids to me should not just feel like shorter adults with less things to do. When I think of kids, I think of things like playing dress up and pretend with friends/siblings. Being silly and jumping on the bed. Playing catch and running around the house. They sort of did something like this with parents being able to play pretend with toddlers with the giant jungle gym from toddler stuff, but it could have had more more depth. It would have been great to able to be do those games without the jungle gym, not to mention letting kids do that with each other. (Pretend to be pirates, but only the children can see the costumes/swords from their imagination).
Things like that would add so much depth and make children feel more like actual children.
I want things like "Mary Mack" or hand games back, jump rope and hopscotch and tag. I guess I'm old fashioned and want things that I did when young in the game. They would also be nice for those that don't play in the current time or that play in off grid or other situations.
I'd also like a rocking horse... or those standing rockers that parks have also see-saws even if I smashed my finger in one when young .
So, the reason, in my opinion has already been stated here, it would have taken more work and or more time to program the game to make children Non MiniMe's of the adults. Because that has been the complaint since day one, kids in the game are just shorter adults.
This is one of my main problems too. Children (and teens for that matter) just feel like adults with less actions they can perform. Some understandably, others not so much [Kids not being able to do magic, not being able to walk dogs (even though they can train them), barely being able to become famous etc.]
It feels like they literally took an adult model, shrunk it down, removed some things and said, "bam, those are kids". There's barely anything unique to children outside of being able to play with toys (most of which is all just one animation). Kids to me should not just feel like shorter adults with less things to do. When I think of kids, I think of things like playing dress up and pretend with friends/siblings. Being silly and jumping on the bed. Playing catch and running around the house. They sort of did something like this with parents being able to play pretend with toddlers with the giant jungle gym from toddler stuff, but it could have had more more depth. It would have been great to able to be do those games without the jungle gym, not to mention letting kids do that with each other. (Pretend to be pirates, but only the children can see the costumes/swords from their imagination).
Things like that would add so much depth and make children feel more like actual children.
My main issue with what the children can't do, is that they can't water plants or harvest them! I love gardening in The Sims, I remember that in The Sims 1 I downloaded and installed a mod that even made their grades go higher when they worked in the garden (I think the site was called C & C Enterprises, it had great mods). I understand if kids can't plant them, but they should be able to water them or at least pick tomatoes of a bush! So I definitely think they should be able to participate in more activities that the rest of the family does (walk dogs and water plants).
And yes, why can't they play catch? I thought it was just me not finding it in the pie menue. There are almost no games to play if you don't have the gym or toys. In The Sims 2 even the adults could play games.
I want things like "Mary Mack" or hand games back, jump rope and hopscotch and tag. I guess I'm old fashioned and want things that I did when young in the game. They would also be nice for those that don't play in the current time or that play in off grid or other situations.
I'd also like a rocking horse... or those standing rockers that parks have also see-saws even if I smashed my finger in one when young .
Hide and go seek. The toy oven. A kid size woodworking bench. Dolls and strollers that the kids could push.
Supernatural players? We got Ghosts with the pool patch and Aliens in March 2015. Then, we had to wait from 2015 to 2017 to get Vampires (with Plant Sims added in "Cool Kitchen Stuff" as nothing more than a temporary status effect, mind you), then from 2017 to 2019 for Mermaids (frickin' Mermaids, instead of a core supernatural, like Werewolves or Zombies), and we can count ourselves lucky to finally be getting Witches/Casters/Mages this year too after little Susie finally got her wish to make a proper Disney Princess household granted!!
You're forgetting skeletons, and rightfully so - plantsims (nvm, you mentioned in next comment) . Though I do agree with you, that fantasy theme is much neglected in comparison to family play.
I want all of this in my game so much. Why does a mobile game have so much gameplay in their DLCs and TS4 doesn't?
I have no idea. Maybe with some of the mobile game Gurus coming back to the Sims 4, something can be done with the main series for family play and other playstyles that are still badly lacking.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I want all of this in my game so much. Why does a mobile game have so much gameplay in their DLCs and TS4 doesn't?
They have this much gameplay but even less personality for Sims (think: zero). While I do absolutely adore parts of the Freeplay gameplay, it's simply a different game on a different platform. (also, microtransactions. let's never, ever)
I don't know why you feel this way, with Parenthood for example you can have that family gameplay.
I didn't dispute that family gameplay was possible, but it feels like every pack these days is geared towards YAs who don't have families; and simply ignores anyone younger than teen.
...did y'all not get a whole pack (Parenthood), a free toddler update, Kids Room & Toddler Stuff, Backyard Stuff & Seasons (which imo have loads of child-friendly stuff in them), holiday events for families in Seasons & family camping spots in Outdoor Living, etc?
I love to play families and feel like there is an abundance of things to do with each of my kids & with the parents. Sure, there could always be more, and I'll get excited for more things tailored to family game play - but I think we are spoiled for choice at the moment!
@Babykittyjade seconded. the gameplay is simply not there. im okay with people using poses for photoshoots and stuff but feel so sorry for those who need to use poses and imagine for story telling purposes.
...did y'all not get a whole pack (Parenthood), a free toddler update, Kids Room & Toddler Stuff, Backyard Stuff & Seasons (which imo have loads of child-friendly stuff in them), holiday events for families in Seasons & family camping spots in Outdoor Living, etc?
I love to play families and feel like there is an abundance of things to do with each of my kids & with the parents. Sure, there could always be more, and I'll get excited for more things tailored to family game play - but I think we are spoiled for choice at the moment!
Players shouldn't have to pay extra to be able to simulate a basic life stage properly in a life simulator. All of these features that people have mentioned should have been present and then the packs you mention should have added to them. They are expansions, not requirements.
Considering they're trying to sell this game to people who may fall in a particular stereotype, considering the stereotype, it's not all that surprising family play would feel lacking. And it isn't just family play but like someone else said life experience in general, well, unless you live that stereotyped life. There isn't even a wide array of different times one can play in anymore because everything is heavily reliant on technology instead of providing options to play like technology isn't a big deal or certain technology doesn't exist.
I told someone asking if they should play TS3 or TS4 that if they want a more hands on game to play then play 3 but more hands off then 4 but all of the older games I think require a more hands on approach, they're more challenging and for some people that's the draw. They like the difficulty, the challenge, having to find balance to run the household or even multiple households they're playing whether big or small, everything not always being perfect, just the life simulator experience in general. I like the life simulator aspect as well and also the sandbox. I think the game is best when it balances those aspect.
I also think after reading through this thread and others along with posts on social media that a difficulty level option might be good. I see the comment a lot about toddlers being too needy in the previous games where these are more independent and therefore easier. I loved teaching toddler how to walk and talk and helping them grow in the previous game and prefer the "needy" ones more but I think in this instance we're kind of talking about two, possibly three different stages of toddlers. Maybe there should be an age between toddler and child or improved progression as toddlers grow and learn because while Sims 2/3 toddlers and Sims 4 toddlers are all indeed toddlers a toddler who is 1 is totally different than a toddler who is 3.
I looked up toddlers just to back up my thinking and somewhat limited knowledge having not dealt with a toddler in a while.
Developmental Milestones
Skills such as taking a first step, smiling for the first time, and waving “bye-bye” are called developmental milestones. Developmental milestones are things most children can do by a certain age. Children reach milestones in how they play, learn, speak, behave, and move (like crawling, walking, or jumping).
During the second year, toddlers are moving around more, and are aware of themselves and their surroundings. Their desire to explore new objects and people also is increasing. During this stage, toddlers will show greater independence; begin to show defiant behavior; recognize themselves in pictures or a mirror; and imitate the behavior of others, especially adults and older children. Toddlers also should be able to recognize the names of familiar people and objects, form simple phrases and sentences, and follow simple instructions and directions.
Toddlers (2-3 years of age)
Developmental Milestones
Skills such as taking turns, playing make believe, and kicking a ball, are called developmental milestones. Developmental milestones are things most children can do by a certain age. Children reach milestones in how they play, learn, speak, behave, and move (like jumping, running, or balancing).
Because of children’s growing desire to be independent, this stage is often called the “terrible twos.” However, this can be an exciting time for parents and toddlers. Toddlers will experience huge thinking, learning, social, and emotional changes that will help them to explore their new world, and make sense of it. During this stage, toddlers should be able to follow two- or three-step directions, sort objects by shape and color, imitate the actions of adults and playmates, and express a wide range of emotions.
But also there's a life stage that would be before what Sims 4 and the previous games would consider child but likely fall within toddler range as well. Preschooler.
Preschoolers (3-5 years of age)
Developmental Milestones
Skills such as naming colors, showing affection, and hopping on one foot are called developmental milestones. Developmental milestones are things most children can do by a certain age. Children reach milestones in how they play, learn, speak, behave, and move (like crawling, walking, or jumping).
As children grow into early childhood, their world will begin to open up. They will become more independent and begin to focus more on adults and children outside of the family. They will want to explore and ask about the things around them even more. Their interactions with family and those around them will help to shape their personality and their own ways of thinking and moving. During this stage, children should be able to ride a tricycle, use safety scissors, notice a difference between girls and boys, help to dress and undress themselves, play with other children, recall part of a story, and sing a song.
Actually on the site what The Sims fits into four different life stages they've split developmentally into eight life stages, what would be considered toddlers in the game having the most at three different stages.
And on this site I got from a Wikipedia page they also show the differences depending on the age of the toddler.
Some of us prefer toddlers in the 1-2 yo stage and some prefer toddlers in the 3-4 yo stage. I don't know if a difficulty setting would necessarily help with that after reading it all, but better progression with the life stage maybe. They shouldn't come fresh off blowing out the candles being independent miniature adults but after learning and developing skills they shouldn't be completely dependent either. Of course personality traits, environment, and how their raised would also play a part. Some may be quicker and some may take more time but also depending on their personality some will probably be fussy, some will be more quiet, some more accident prone, some more cautious, some will magically appear at the sound of a potato chip bag opening, etc..
Also babies and elders get ignored a lot and need more things in general. Some of the liveliest people I know where I live are elderly. They go shopping with their adult children and bicker with them. They help out their kids and grandkids from time to time by babysitting, housesitting, helping with chores around the house and stuff. They may desire to move in and be close with one of their children. Some will make up false aches and pains to get attention or goodies they likely shouldn't be eating. Some elderly people become like teenagers all over again while their children suddenly find they're in the parental role trying to deal with them. They tell the best stories about their kids to their grandkids sometimes shattering illusions. They ask inappropriate questions, say inappropriate things, play matchmaker. Any night to possibly win money at the casino or bingo is the night. Some in retirement homes and take part in group activities like water aerobics or ceramics. Some live at home still and the grandkids come to stay during the summer.
A lot of stuff elders typically do are things Adults and YA can do too but as an Elder more options should be unlocked in certain areas, fewer limitations with certain things depending on their personality. There's fun to be had, they just have to add it. But the considered Parenthood a risk so I don't know if they'll actually do something about Elders.
Babies I think need better development than what they've had in the past too. In real life babies don't just lay there after a few months they start to develop along to toddlers eventually. They start turning over, sitting up, scooting, crawling, it'd be nice to see that development too. And since I did it for toddlers I decided to look up 0-12 months development too.
Baby Development: One to Three Months
During this first development stage, babies’ bodies and brains are learning to live in the outside world. Between birth and three months, your baby may start to:
Smile. Early on, it will be just to herself. But within three months, she’ll be smiling in response to your smiles and trying to get you to smile back at her.
Raise her head and chest when on her tummy.
Track objects with her eyes and gradually decrease eye crossing.
Open and shut her hands and bring hands to her mouth.
Grip objects in her hands.
Take swipes at or reach for dangling objects, though she usually won’t be able to get them yet.
Baby Development: Four to Six Months
During these months, babies are really learning to reach out and manipulate the world around them. They’re mastering the use of those amazing tools, their hands. And they’re discovering their voices. From 4 to 6 months old, your baby will probably:
Roll over from front to back or back to front. Front-to-back usually comes first.
Babble, making sounds that can sound like real language.
Laugh.
Reach out for and grab objects (watch out for your hair), and manipulate toys and other objects with her hands.
Sit up with support and have great head control.
Baby Development: Seven to Nine Months
During the second half of this year, your little one becomes a baby on the go. After learning that he can get somewhere by rolling over, he’ll spend the next few months figuring out how to move forward or backward. If you haven’t baby-proofed yet, better get on it!
During this time period, your baby may:
Start to crawl. This can include scooting (propelling around on his bottom) or “army crawling” (dragging himself on his tummy by arms and legs), as well as standard crawling on hands and knees. Some babies never crawl, moving directly to from scooting to walking.
Sit without support.
Respond to familiar words like his name. He may also respond to “No” by briefly stopping and looking at you, and may start babbling "Mama" and "Dada."
Clap and play games such as patty-cake and peekaboo.
Learn to pull up to a standing position.
Baby Development: 10 to 12 Months
The last development stage in baby’s first year is quite a transition. She isn’t an infant anymore, and she might look and act more like a toddler. But she’s still a baby in many ways. She’s learning to:
Begin feeding herself. Babies at this developmental stage master the “pincer grasp“ -- meaning they can hold small objects such as O-shaped cereal between their thumb and forefinger.
Cruise, or move around the room on her feet while holding onto the furniture.
Say one or two words, and "Mama" and "Dada" become specific name for parents. The average is about three spoken words by the first birthday, but the range on this is enormous.
Point at objects she wants in order to get your attention.
Begin “pretend play” by copying you or using objects correctly, such as pretending to talk on the phone.
Take her first steps. This usually happens right around one year, but it can vary greatly.
I'm actually not all that surprised we haven't seen this kind of detail in the game or even half of that detail but I am a bit disappointed they haven't fleshed out Elders and Babies much more. Not having deeper, more fleshed out life stages ultimatley doesn't just affect family players though they'll likely feel it the most. It affects most players who play in live mode and look for more meaningful and detailed gameplay. I could name a lot more things for all the lifestages and types of relationship (platonic, romantic, familial) that I'd love to see them do.
...did y'all not get a whole pack (Parenthood), a free toddler update, Kids Room & Toddler Stuff, Backyard Stuff & Seasons (which imo have loads of child-friendly stuff in them), holiday events for families in Seasons & family camping spots in Outdoor Living, etc?
I love to play families and feel like there is an abundance of things to do with each of my kids & with the parents. Sure, there could always be more, and I'll get excited for more things tailored to family game play - but I think we are spoiled for choice at the moment!
Funny thing is even with those packs babies and elders are highly neglected. I mean this iteration has the laziest Sims I've ever seen. If it wasn't for Fitness and Island Living and Seasons and Outdoor Retreat, Sims would just be stuck at home gaining weight. So yes I do want more group activities than YA Sims just being obsessed with electronic devices and being shallow with their looks all the time and caring about fame and blowing money to your hearts content. Sims community is diverse and in order for it to be inclusive towards all Simmers, it needs to be inclusive to more than just YA female Sims. True it was a trend with past Sims games too, but if the Sims 4 is truly going to be different, shouldn't it break and improve on that instead of just repeating past mistakes?
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I don't know why you feel this way, with Parenthood for example you can have that family gameplay.
I feel this way because Parenthood should have been part of the base game's gameplay. Instead we had to wait three years to buy it..when it should have been a great deal of the core of the game. Prooving children, and family are afterthought. It is part of the other games' gameplay.
Lecturing, encouraging, grounding, curferws (going to find the kid or worrying (actual animation) where is the kid, why have they past out on the floor etc. Wishes about the kid instead of a new toy. Family wishes, not fortune wishes such as buy something as fortune Sims did.
Family Sim in TS4 wishes for a toy, even if no children....why improve that, when they can just hide personality wishes now by default, to hide how badly they didn't understand family Sims.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I enjoy family play as it is now, but I also think it could be improved. I can't complain about the toddlers. I think the skill levels do a good job of simulating the growth stages in toddlerhood. My only complaint there is that I have to go and redesign community lots to include them. Every time I buy a new pack, this is one of the first things I do. And this isn't my strong point. It would be nice if Maxis could offer some redesigns of parks, libraries, and recreational facilities on the gallery that use base game and toddler pack items only. Most of the player made revisions use packs I don't own yet.
The two age groups I most want to see updated are babies and teens. The babies are sad. If the babies in Sims Freeplay could be improved, I have to think they could be better in Sims 4. If we could carry them, have a changing table and stroller, and a playmat on the floor, it would be a tremendous improvement.
Teens should not be young adults with mood swings. Could they not be a little shorter? Would that mess up clothes animations too much? Maybe, but they are a bit disappointing to me.
And can elders please exercise without dying?
I would also like to see more group activities such as playing board games or charades. Things that show family interactions.
I am grateful for what we have, but I am always going to hope for more.
I always see people bring up Parenthood to suggest that there is "plenty" of "family gameplay". But if you just stop and look at the actual pack for a second, you'll realize that Parenthood is still another pack focused primarily on adults. Plumbella made this point in one of her videos recently, the pack is called "Parenthood", not kidhood, teenhood, or toddlerhood. The major focus was once again the adults with the new parenting skill. Some younger lifestages got more interactions, yes, but very little of it is what I'd call "new" or "deep".
Babies of course got nothing. This would have been a nice pack to give them further gameplay and new features, maybe free them from the bassinet prisons, but as usual, they were ignored. Toddlers got very little, just the character values which in my experience don't effect them as much as they do children or teens. Children got the mood swings/phases along with the character values, but in my experience those rarely actually have a major effect on the gameplay; just making them have some specific emotion for a short period of time. Maybe it's different for other players and I'm just unlucky, but these rarely seem to do much for me. The school projects are okay, but there's not much to them other than "do them and your grades will go up". They got a few new interactions (most of which are just talking), no new games like tag, nothing like being able to play dress up, no pranks or anything. There's the building blocks thing which is...not gonna lie, pretty lame. And teens are kind of in the same boat as children. And elders didn't get anything new other than the parenting skill by virtue of being adults.
No new aspirations for children or teens, no new traits (except the reward traits which can only be unlocked as young adults). They got a lot of new CAS yeah, but CAS isn't gameplay. Most BB isn't gameplay, it's just decorative. Stuff, while nice to have, is not gameplay.
Did toddlers-teens and elders get some new things? Yes, no one can deny that. But it really is not as much as people seem to think it was and really isn't what I'd call deep family gameplay. Nothing about parenthood makes kids feel more like kids, teens more like teens, or elders more like elders for me.
Supernatural players? We got Ghosts with the pool patch and Aliens in March 2015. Then, we had to wait from 2015 to 2017 to get Vampires (with Plant Sims added in "Cool Kitchen Stuff" as nothing more than a temporary status effect, mind you), then from 2017 to 2019 for Mermaids (frickin' Mermaids, instead of a core supernatural, like Werewolves or Zombies), and we can count ourselves lucky to finally be getting Witches/Casters/Mages this year too after little Susie finally got her wish to make a proper Disney Princess household granted!!
You're forgetting skeletons, and rightfully so - plantsims (nvm, you mentioned in next comment) . Though I do agree with you, that fantasy theme is much neglected in comparison to family play.
I tried playing with skeletons. Figured they'd make great toddler parents with no needs to keep filled. But like the Plant Sims who constantly stop to show surprise at the fact that they have leaves, skeletons have a couple animations they do a lot and they'll often do it right before a queued action. Aka: "My toddler is wailing and might be taken away if I don't do something soon! Lemme just spin my skeletal arm around first, 'cause that's funny!"
Watch me mash together Sims and Pokémon to tell a story about battling glitches in Penny Saves Paldea. Updated every other Thursday.
Do what modern parents do: Give your kid a tablet.
Honestly this made me think of something I neglected to mention in my original post. Even the little family play does exist is so barebones. All you need to do is give toddlers the wabbit tablet and they can fully max 4/5 of their skills without ever interacting with anyone else, and that annoys me. I know this is a game, but that's just not realistic. There's so little depth to parenting and often times it feels my kids can pperfectly survive on their own while their parents do their own thing. Parenthood added a bit more, but not nearly enough imo.
My toddlers do take care of themselves. Ever since the high chair was broken, I just have the toddler click on the fridge and grab a meal out and then slide it back into the fridge. I miss feeding them in the highchair and actually taking care of them.
@Sindocat There are some nice things for kids and organising a family can be fun - I tried to show a different perspective on family play back in the early life of TS4 here - but the issue is that nothing new is being added for younger Sims/families and they are still lacking so many basic things with things like Get Famous and Strangerville being produced instead. And in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.
Gay families can make for good gameplay -- I've played couples who adopted children, and shortly after Seasons release I had a Sim who had twins with Father Winter, then married her high school best friend and the two of them had a toddler from scientific experiment (aka took them into CAS and created a toddler with both of them as parents).
I have no issues with promoting LGBT Sims because there's still a lot of homophobia out there and a lot of people need that boost to feel part of society.
And EA can't please everyone -- I've seen threads like this complaining that there's too much family play and not enough for single Sims. It's hard to [/b]find that balance. I've enjoyed both playing with single Sims and with families, especially since 2017 with the addition of toddlers and the Parenthood game pack.
I wonder why I'm under the delusion they found that balance in TS2? I don't recall anyone back then saying to player base, it's too hard and too expensive. It probably was with everything having to be associated and animated, but some how they found that balance and I never once thought to myself, gee, there is too much for a single Sim and not enough for a family. I played both in that game and was never thinking that.
Sims 2 is in perfect balance for just about everything in my opinion. Perfect cooking time, eating time, raising children time, teens coming home from school earlier, dine-out time(played sims served first no matter what), bowling and conversing time, time stopped when you went left the lot so you could really enjoy your time out and not feel rushed, etc
I always see people bring up Parenthood to suggest that there is "plenty" of "family gameplay". But if you just stop and look at the actual pack for a second, you'll realize that Parenthood is still another pack focused primarily on adults. Plumbella made this point in one of her videos recently, the pack is called "Parenthood", not kidhood, teenhood, or toddlerhood. The major focus was once again the adults with the new parenting skill. Some younger lifestages got more interactions, yes, but very little of it is what I'd call "new" or "deep".
Babies of course got nothing. This would have been a nice pack to give them further gameplay and new features, maybe free them from the bassinet prisons, but as usual, they were ignored. Toddlers got very little, just the character values which in my experience don't effect them as much as they do children or teens. Children got the mood swings/phases along with the character values, but in my experience those rarely actually have a major effect on the gameplay; just making them have some specific emotion for a short period of time. Maybe it's different for other players and I'm just unlucky, but these rarely seem to do much for me. The school projects are okay, but there's not much to them other than "do them and your grades will go up". They got a few new interactions (most of which are just talking), no new games like tag, nothing like being able to play dress up, no pranks or anything. There's the building blocks thing which is...not gonna lie, pretty lame. And teens are kind of in the same boat as children. And elders didn't get anything new other than the parenting skill by virtue of being adults.
No new aspirations for children or teens, no new traits (except the reward traits which can only be unlocked as young adults). They got a lot of new CAS yeah, but CAS isn't gameplay. Most BB isn't gameplay, it's just decorative. Stuff, while nice to have, is not gameplay.
Did toddlers-teens and elders get some new things? Yes, no one can deny that. But it really is not as much as people seem to think it was and really isn't what I'd call deep family gameplay. Nothing about parenthood makes kids feel more like kids, teens more like teens, or elders more like elders for me.
I completely agree with this. Excellent post.
@JoAnne65 Sims 4 toddlers still need to be taught to use the potty, unless they have the independent trait- then they can go themselves right away as soon as they age up. I have to admit I prefer the sims 2 and 3 toddlers as they behave more like toddlers. I think sims 4 toddlers are more like pre school- what toddler ages straight from a baby to walking, babbling and being taught to potty? I like the younger toddlers in previous games. Toddlers in sims 4 are easy.
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This is one of my main problems too. Children (and teens for that matter) just feel like adults with less actions they can perform. Some understandably, others not so much [Kids not being able to do magic, not being able to walk dogs (even though they can train them), barely being able to become famous etc.]
It feels like they literally took an adult model, shrunk it down, removed some things and said, "bam, those are kids". There's barely anything unique to children outside of being able to play with toys (most of which is all just one animation). Kids to me should not just feel like shorter adults with less things to do. When I think of kids, I think of things like playing dress up and pretend with friends/siblings. Being silly and jumping on the bed. Playing catch and running around the house. They sort of did something like this with parents being able to play pretend with toddlers with the giant jungle gym from toddler stuff, but it could have had more more depth. It would have been great to able to be do those games without the jungle gym, not to mention letting kids do that with each other. (Pretend to be pirates, but only the children can see the costumes/swords from their imagination).
Things like that would add so much depth and make children feel more like actual children.
I'd also like a rocking horse... or those standing rockers that parks have also see-saws even if I smashed my finger in one when young
My main issue with what the children can't do, is that they can't water plants or harvest them! I love gardening in The Sims, I remember that in The Sims 1 I downloaded and installed a mod that even made their grades go higher when they worked in the garden (I think the site was called C & C Enterprises, it had great mods). I understand if kids can't plant them, but they should be able to water them or at least pick tomatoes of a bush! So I definitely think they should be able to participate in more activities that the rest of the family does (walk dogs and water plants).
And yes, why can't they play catch? I thought it was just me not finding it in the pie menue. There are almost no games to play if you don't have the gym or toys. In The Sims 2 even the adults could play games.
Hide and go seek. The toy oven. A kid size woodworking bench. Dolls and strollers that the kids could push.
They have this much gameplay but even less personality for Sims (think: zero). While I do absolutely adore parts of the Freeplay gameplay, it's simply a different game on a different platform. (also, microtransactions. let's never, ever)
I didn't dispute that family gameplay was possible, but it feels like every pack these days is geared towards YAs who don't have families; and simply ignores anyone younger than teen.
Ugh and this one.
I love to play families and feel like there is an abundance of things to do with each of my kids & with the parents. Sure, there could always be more, and I'll get excited for more things tailored to family game play - but I think we are spoiled for choice at the moment!
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Players shouldn't have to pay extra to be able to simulate a basic life stage properly in a life simulator. All of these features that people have mentioned should have been present and then the packs you mention should have added to them. They are expansions, not requirements.
I told someone asking if they should play TS3 or TS4 that if they want a more hands on game to play then play 3 but more hands off then 4 but all of the older games I think require a more hands on approach, they're more challenging and for some people that's the draw. They like the difficulty, the challenge, having to find balance to run the household or even multiple households they're playing whether big or small, everything not always being perfect, just the life simulator experience in general. I like the life simulator aspect as well and also the sandbox. I think the game is best when it balances those aspect.
I also think after reading through this thread and others along with posts on social media that a difficulty level option might be good. I see the comment a lot about toddlers being too needy in the previous games where these are more independent and therefore easier. I loved teaching toddler how to walk and talk and helping them grow in the previous game and prefer the "needy" ones more but I think in this instance we're kind of talking about two, possibly three different stages of toddlers. Maybe there should be an age between toddler and child or improved progression as toddlers grow and learn because while Sims 2/3 toddlers and Sims 4 toddlers are all indeed toddlers a toddler who is 1 is totally different than a toddler who is 3.
I looked up toddlers just to back up my thinking and somewhat limited knowledge having not dealt with a toddler in a while.
But also there's a life stage that would be before what Sims 4 and the previous games would consider child but likely fall within toddler range as well. Preschooler.
Actually on the site what The Sims fits into four different life stages they've split developmentally into eight life stages, what would be considered toddlers in the game having the most at three different stages.
And on this site I got from a Wikipedia page they also show the differences depending on the age of the toddler.
Some of us prefer toddlers in the 1-2 yo stage and some prefer toddlers in the 3-4 yo stage. I don't know if a difficulty setting would necessarily help with that after reading it all, but better progression with the life stage maybe. They shouldn't come fresh off blowing out the candles being independent miniature adults but after learning and developing skills they shouldn't be completely dependent either. Of course personality traits, environment, and how their raised would also play a part. Some may be quicker and some may take more time but also depending on their personality some will probably be fussy, some will be more quiet, some more accident prone, some more cautious, some will magically appear at the sound of a potato chip bag opening, etc..
Also babies and elders get ignored a lot and need more things in general. Some of the liveliest people I know where I live are elderly. They go shopping with their adult children and bicker with them. They help out their kids and grandkids from time to time by babysitting, housesitting, helping with chores around the house and stuff. They may desire to move in and be close with one of their children. Some will make up false aches and pains to get attention or goodies they likely shouldn't be eating. Some elderly people become like teenagers all over again while their children suddenly find they're in the parental role trying to deal with them. They tell the best stories about their kids to their grandkids sometimes shattering illusions. They ask inappropriate questions, say inappropriate things, play matchmaker. Any night to possibly win money at the casino or bingo is the night. Some in retirement homes and take part in group activities like water aerobics or ceramics. Some live at home still and the grandkids come to stay during the summer.
A lot of stuff elders typically do are things Adults and YA can do too but as an Elder more options should be unlocked in certain areas, fewer limitations with certain things depending on their personality. There's fun to be had, they just have to add it. But the considered Parenthood a risk so I don't know if they'll actually do something about Elders.
Babies I think need better development than what they've had in the past too. In real life babies don't just lay there after a few months they start to develop along to toddlers eventually. They start turning over, sitting up, scooting, crawling, it'd be nice to see that development too. And since I did it for toddlers I decided to look up 0-12 months development too.
I'm actually not all that surprised we haven't seen this kind of detail in the game or even half of that detail but I am a bit disappointed they haven't fleshed out Elders and Babies much more. Not having deeper, more fleshed out life stages ultimatley doesn't just affect family players though they'll likely feel it the most. It affects most players who play in live mode and look for more meaningful and detailed gameplay. I could name a lot more things for all the lifestages and types of relationship (platonic, romantic, familial) that I'd love to see them do.
I feel this way because Parenthood should have been part of the base game's gameplay. Instead we had to wait three years to buy it..when it should have been a great deal of the core of the game. Prooving children, and family are afterthought. It is part of the other games' gameplay.
Lecturing, encouraging, grounding, curferws (going to find the kid or worrying (actual animation) where is the kid, why have they past out on the floor etc. Wishes about the kid instead of a new toy. Family wishes, not fortune wishes such as buy something as fortune Sims did.
Family Sim in TS4 wishes for a toy, even if no children....why improve that, when they can just hide personality wishes now by default, to hide how badly they didn't understand family Sims.
The two age groups I most want to see updated are babies and teens. The babies are sad. If the babies in Sims Freeplay could be improved, I have to think they could be better in Sims 4. If we could carry them, have a changing table and stroller, and a playmat on the floor, it would be a tremendous improvement.
Teens should not be young adults with mood swings. Could they not be a little shorter? Would that mess up clothes animations too much? Maybe, but they are a bit disappointing to me.
And can elders please exercise without dying?
I would also like to see more group activities such as playing board games or charades. Things that show family interactions.
I am grateful for what we have, but I am always going to hope for more.
Babies of course got nothing. This would have been a nice pack to give them further gameplay and new features, maybe free them from the bassinet prisons, but as usual, they were ignored. Toddlers got very little, just the character values which in my experience don't effect them as much as they do children or teens. Children got the mood swings/phases along with the character values, but in my experience those rarely actually have a major effect on the gameplay; just making them have some specific emotion for a short period of time. Maybe it's different for other players and I'm just unlucky, but these rarely seem to do much for me. The school projects are okay, but there's not much to them other than "do them and your grades will go up". They got a few new interactions (most of which are just talking), no new games like tag, nothing like being able to play dress up, no pranks or anything. There's the building blocks thing which is...not gonna lie, pretty lame. And teens are kind of in the same boat as children. And elders didn't get anything new other than the parenting skill by virtue of being adults.
No new aspirations for children or teens, no new traits (except the reward traits which can only be unlocked as young adults). They got a lot of new CAS yeah, but CAS isn't gameplay. Most BB isn't gameplay, it's just decorative. Stuff, while nice to have, is not gameplay.
Did toddlers-teens and elders get some new things? Yes, no one can deny that. But it really is not as much as people seem to think it was and really isn't what I'd call deep family gameplay. Nothing about parenthood makes kids feel more like kids, teens more like teens, or elders more like elders for me.
I tried playing with skeletons. Figured they'd make great toddler parents with no needs to keep filled. But like the Plant Sims who constantly stop to show surprise at the fact that they have leaves, skeletons have a couple animations they do a lot and they'll often do it right before a queued action. Aka: "My toddler is wailing and might be taken away if I don't do something soon! Lemme just spin my skeletal arm around first, 'cause that's funny!"
and we wonder why teen suicide is up, school shootings, etc, social media\tablets raising kids..NICE
My toddlers do take care of themselves. Ever since the high chair was broken, I just have the toddler click on the fridge and grab a meal out and then slide it back into the fridge. I miss feeding them in the highchair and actually taking care of them.
Sims 2 is in perfect balance for just about everything in my opinion. Perfect cooking time, eating time, raising children time, teens coming home from school earlier, dine-out time(played sims served first no matter what), bowling and conversing time, time stopped when you went left the lot so you could really enjoy your time out and not feel rushed, etc
I completely agree with this. Excellent post.
@JoAnne65 Sims 4 toddlers still need to be taught to use the potty, unless they have the independent trait- then they can go themselves right away as soon as they age up. I have to admit I prefer the sims 2 and 3 toddlers as they behave more like toddlers. I think sims 4 toddlers are more like pre school- what toddler ages straight from a baby to walking, babbling and being taught to potty? I like the younger toddlers in previous games. Toddlers in sims 4 are easy.