I want to hear some opinions. I personally think it's bunk that they gave Max the Evil trait, he has it as a Child, and first of all, my opinion is that no child is truly evil. Secondly, Max has obviously been subjected to some trauma with his mother having died. I personally feel like his acting out is as a result of this. Not to mention I doubt Jacques sought out mental health support for Max during this time (Jacques himself is insane at this point). I truly feel like Max isn't an evil or "bad" child, he's a child who is probably hurting, traumatized, and emotionally neglected (his father is a big wig in the mafia and also insane, how could he provide Max with the nurturing and parental support he needs)?
The other thing is that Max has been nothing but nice to any of my sims in any of my saves. I've even had some of my sims become romantically involved with him in baby challenges, and again, he was nothing but sweet and romantic toward them.
All of this makes me feel like Max isn't truly Evil, but rather has some mental health needs that don't get met, and his actions relate back to that and to his probable desire for attention from his neglectful father (how better to get a criminal father's attention than to try to show him you're as bad as bad comes)? It really makes me wish they included more mental health related traits in the game. I actually now have a soft spot for Max having considered all this and really feel for him. He just always strikes me as someone who just wants someone to love him (as a little boy and as an adult).
I'd be interested to hear what all of you think!
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Over all nice theory, it got me thinking.
also just saying an evil person being nice doesn't exactly mean they aren't bad, same with a good person being rude. Some villains can generally be great people that won't hesitate to hold the door open for someone or help an elderly person cross the street.
I got two tv tropes if you want to read more on friendly villains and terrible heroes
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodIsNotNice
At least in my game, he has the Evil trait, but is a young adult now with no known enemies. He even has the Good Manners trait.
Agree to disagree:
Now if we're talking about the Mean trait, those sims I like to delete out of my game because they can't get along with anyone and they put my played sims in a bad mood.
So in short, I don't think Max is evil in IRL terms. In game terms...it's fuzzy.
Correct. The question at hand is whether or not this fictional character would be classified as evil or not.
He has the evil trait. So he’s evil. I don’t know what’s so hard for the OP to understand lol
In my game (anything goes in anyone else's), I've had a lot of fun with the Villareals. My back story is that they are wealthy half-Spanish, half-French aristocrats. (The French fled into Spain in the revolution). Madness runs in the family. Jacques's mother was a fashionable Parisian socialite who didn't have much time for him. His father was a Spanish aristocrat. Jacques was a complete lunatic due to something genetic that pops up every now and again, not each generation. (He's now passed on in my game). The Villareals are an aristocratic family in my game.
The three children - Hugo, Luna and Max - had the bonding experience of growing up by raising themselves with butlers. The mother died mysteriously when Max was a baby, so yes, there's definitely a sympathetic element there and I haven't made him as evil as the few other evil characters in my game. Those with that trait are inherently manipulative and unsympathetic, but I keep them to a small number in the community. It's not always readily apparent that they are evil and I think that's more realistic. I don't like having many of them in the game.
Back to the Villareals, I really went back and forth about what to do with Max and how he would be with his brother who is the heir to the fortune. I did decide that Max bonded with his siblings as a child. He also fell in love with Elsa Bjergsen as a teen but abandoned her because he became a vampire and didn't want her to see what he has become. He is always in love with her but he lives on the plasma of beautiful women. Ironically, Elsa is a doctor and dedicated to healing people. She was so sad that Max disappeared (to Forgotten Hollow) but she ultimately moved on and is happily married with a child. Max lives in darkness but has never forgotten about her. Yes, he's jealous of her mortal husband.
So that's it, I turned him into a vampire the day after his teenage years ended. I downloaded a beautiful Victorian house with a swimming pool that he enjoys at night. He lives alone but he loves bringing in lady sims. He's still a wealthy aristocrat but he's the second son.
Hugo basically raised his brother and was not shy about providing for the boy with wealth. Max does spend time with his adult brother and sister who haven't figured out the explanation for why he doesn't age or eat and only visits with them at night.
I've actually had fun with Hugo as well. He inherited his father's fortune but is not mad. He's married a beautiful sim that he fell in love with when she played chess with him. She never tried to catch him for his wealth and is very down-to-earth. She reminds him of their lost mother that he does remember.
Luna married Sergio who is essentially a wealthy Wall Street type and fastidious Italian. Sergio thinks that Luna is the perfect woman and is dutifully married to her but has lately taken a strange interest in messing around with a woman "from the wrong side of the tracks". He doesn't love her or want Luna to find out, he just likes escaping from responsibility.
I've played Max a bit less than the others because he doesn't age so I haven't resolved what will happen as he outlives the others that he knows. I don't think he will soften as time passes. He's a cold-blooded vampire which is why Vlad Straud turned him. So far, he's the only one that Vlad was willing to make into a vampire. They're both aristocratic and Vlad finds him to be one of the only sims that he can tolerate in occasional social visits. Vlad remembers his family well from prior centuries. To become a vampire, Vlad has to want to keep you around.
So yes, I think he is "evil", in that sense that as a kid he is a troublemaker and it is up to the player if that leads to him becoming an evil sim when he grows up.
...Kind of OT, but Elsa in my game also grew up to be a doctor. Interesting...
As for evil, I explored what Max was like, and also Wolfgang Munch, and compared that to other characters I had made and played, who were Evil or Mean, or both, and what I found was, an Evil character isn't necessarily Mean. They can be polite, sweet, tender, loving to their children, great spouses...but if they don't have a Mischief aspiration or Criminal career, all their Evilness really amounts to, is occasionally breaking into "Maniacal Laugh...MANIACAL LAUGH!" and getting happy when near someone who is sad or upset or otherwise miserable. So I think of it like the hollywood depictions of mobsters: perfectly nice people so long as you're not their target, and if you are, it's just business, nothing personal.
After his makeover, I thought he'd make good boyfriend material for my teen Bad Girl Tempest Piper Rich (I included Piper as a throw-out to Rowdy Roddy Piper in They Live, because her byline was "I came to chew bubblegum...) but was startled to find Max so...nice.
So he eventually had a few lovers and a few children, married and then eventually buried, his beloved Morgan Fyres (who was Good, but seemed to have a thing for trying to save Lost Causes, and perhaps wanted to walk on the wild side), and in his old age, newly a widower, sought some comfort from his old compatriot Tempest, who wasn't yet an elder. And they conceived. And it killed Max.
But his grown son was in the house and pleaded successfully with the Reaper (who was married to Cassandra Goth and had a teen son with her plus another on the way, but that's another interesting story of getting around a patch-out for a desired result), so Max was back, but I am still waiting to see if he survives long enough to see the birth of his child with Tempest Piper Rich. Still on the fence as to whether to give him a Potion of Youth, but it may already be too late as I type this, because I played another household without checking, and he may have died in the meantime.
Sorry to write so much, but Max Villareal really is a fascinating character, and I'm glad you saw something special in him, too!
Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
>... The last save I had, Jacque was constantly fighting with his children and finally kicked the bucket. ...
So good that you rescued the kids that way, and nice to hear what a difference it can make! I was afraid to look at how things went for poor little Max in a family headed by Jacque, without intervention. Though I can tell you from having had a Sim go in to meet Max kind of late in the game for Max (he was an elder by then) that the life he seems to lead on his own with no intervention is bleak indeed. Another game, I found Luna regressed (was Childish), Hugo was Mean, and Max was evil but cheerful. The walking wounded, anyway.
Let's make Liberty and Justice For All a reality.
@Nushnushganay I loved reading what you wrote, and see that lines up perfectly with what my impression of him has been in my sims' encounters with him. He just always comes across as someone who just wants someone to love and care about him.
@sarabeth2984 that's awesome, I do believe Max needs something like that to happen, to be taken in by people who will parent him correctly. Luna and Hugo too, but as teens I feel they are a little less vulnerable than Max.
I really wish the game included more mental health related traits, I really feel something like that would be a more appropriate trait for Max.
I loved reading that some others don't just look simplistically at him and his family. I definitely feel there's more than meets the eye with the Villareal family!
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