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Why isn't TS4 inclusive of family players?

Comments

  • AlbaWaterhouseAlbaWaterhouse Posts: 3,798 Member
    Origin ID is: AlbaWaterhouse
    All my creations are CC free.
  • ChadSims2ChadSims2 Posts: 3,272 Member
    My families swim, dance, read, paint, and travel together. They also play music together and make sand sculptures.
    So your families swim but dont interact together when they do so... your Sims dance in the same area but not together... they paint solo at their own easal next to each other... play music "together" but not really as they're all playing their own song... I guess I'll give you building sand castles with an entire 2 Sims since you cant have a group of 3-4 Sims do that together and they can travel together and do a lot of solo activities
    Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,416 Member
    aprilrose wrote: »
    The team seems to be more focused on keeping up with the time (social media/technology, younger target audience, YouTube & Instagram celebrities) and less focused on what made the previous versions most enjoyable which was depth, personality and connection.

    I agree.
  • TheIntrovertSimmerTheIntrovertSimmer Posts: 589 Member
    aprilrose wrote: »
    The team seems to be more focused on keeping up with the time (social media/technology, younger target audience, YouTube & Instagram celebrities) and less focused on what made the previous versions most enjoyable which was depth, personality and connection.

    seconded.

    take these for instance.
    • strangerville wasn't a 'nostalgia treat' for stranger town players but rather for those who were familar with netflix's stranger things.
    • a family oriented gameplay (parenthood) being squished in a gamepack and a full expansion pack centered around fame and instagram (get famous).
    • sulani focusing more on the pretty looks and instagrammable land scenes for taking photos and shoots instead of having immersion and actual gameplay.
    • and 99% of the worlds focus more on aesthetics and low quality backgrounds and vast amount of invisible walls. we're closing near to 2020 people and we're still dealing with invisible walls within close perimeter.
    y'all got bread?
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,600 Member
    edited August 12
    “As it makes the most sense”. Why.... :| ? Well, I can see the why from their perspective, financially, but I don’t see how it makes sense for players :p
  • darrenfroggydarrenfroggy Posts: 1,310 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    “As it makes the most sense”. Why.... :| ? Well, I can see the why from their perspective, financially, but I don’t see how it makes sense for players :p

    I took it as "it makes the most sense at this point" since they've already released Parenthood, Toddler Stuff, Kids Room Stuff as separate packs. So in that regard, it's a pattern and allows people to pick and choose the packs that *they* want their gameplay to focus on (the same way they can pick and choose the packs focused on other aspects of the game like fame, occults, etc).

    As for the overall conversation the OP started, I have to say I was confused when I first read the topic.

    Most my saves (with the small exception of saves I have specifically for builds (where I playtest with either single Sims or couples), have families. In all of those, including the one Rags to Riches challenge, family play is one of the things that I spend the most time on. I don't find that any of my Sims are particularly obsessed with tech. In fact, in one save where I played through the Get Famous celebrity tree, my Sims have a game room and a video station/computer room and those two are the least used when I leave my Sims to their own devices. I can recall maybe a handful of times when any of the toddlers, kids, and teens in my games have autonomously gone for the tablets or computers. The most tech thing they've ever done was to go watch TV when their fun is super low.

    On the other hand, I have way more trouble keeping parents from being called to play with the dollhouse because one of their kids prompts that interaction, or keeping Sims out of the garden, or away from the painting easels. I do have Parenthood and the kids and teens bring up Ask for Advice, they hug, they make messes, they start conversations with their siblings. Even without Parenthood (aka before I got the GP), they nearly always gathered around each other and always talked during meals.
    The sticky hands bug was a frustrating one, sure, but now that that's fixed - at least it is in my game - toddlers are so much fun to have in games.

    Do I wish there was more than we already have? Oh man, yeah. But then I have a list a mile long for things that I wish for in TS4 in general.

    I'm sorry that for some people the family play feels like it's lacking and doesn't have specific interactions and activities you'd want to have in-game. But I don't think it's fair to say that the entirety of TS4 is unfriendly to family players.

    Also, for what it's worth, I'm nowhere near being a millennial, I don't care for any of the clubs or socializing or fame sides of the game. Still, I have found hours of play that suits me. As did my 12yo kid who finds all the technology only marginally important and her focus in her games is the same as mine: families and legacies.

    At the end of the day, it's a case of YMMW (aka Your Mileage May Wary) and ultimate statements like "TS4 is not inclusive of family players" is simply not true across the board.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 31,029 Member
    edited August 12
    Simanite wrote: »
    @Sindocat There are some nice things for kids and organising a family can be fun - I tried to show a different perspective on family play back in the early life of TS4 here - but the issue is that nothing new is being added for younger Sims/families and they are still lacking so many basic things with things like Get Famous and Strangerville being produced instead. And in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

    Gay families can make for good gameplay -- I've played couples who adopted children, and shortly after Seasons release I had a Sim who had twins with Father Winter, then married her high school best friend and the two of them had a toddler from scientific experiment (aka took them into CAS and created a toddler with both of them as parents).

    I have no issues with promoting LGBT Sims because there's still a lot of homophobia out there and a lot of people need that boost to feel part of society.

    And EA can't please everyone -- I've seen threads like this complaining that there's too much family play and not enough for single Sims. It's hard to [/b]find that balance. I've enjoyed both playing with single Sims and with families, especially since 2017 with the addition of toddlers and the Parenthood game pack.

    I wonder why I'm under the delusion they found that balance in TS2? I don't recall anyone back then saying to player base, it's too hard and too expensive. It probably was with everything having to be associated and animated, but some how they found that balance and I never once thought to myself, gee, there is too much for a single Sim and not enough for a family. I played both in that game and was never thinking that.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • Sofmc9Sofmc9 Posts: 385 Member
    "I am a family player and I love sims 4 families."

    Same here. There are interactions from the other games that I want in TS4 though, but I adore that you can even praise a child for brushing their teeth in TS4 lol.

    h6hra7g.png

    And that you can read toddler books to kids and show them the images, so on.

    Bo44rRY.png

    OKk3UFr.png

    veG0YSJ.png

    She is now writing a children's book that came with the freelancer career.

    Hzcixyj.png

    JGoQ0bc.png
    3kL91m5.png
  • IceyJIceyJ Posts: 3,782 Member

    Awesome. So they'll probably continue improving the life stages. I really hope that elders get some love this time around (in addition to babies.) My fear is that statistics show that simmers don't play with elders, so they'll be ignored. But perhaps few of us play with them because they need more content. Same with babies.

    By the way, if this tweet was linked to support the earlier statements, it still does not match the claim that family play doesn't appeal to simmers so Parenthood was made into a gamepack. :)
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 1,640 Member
    aprilrose wrote: »
    The team seems to be more focused on keeping up with the time (social media/technology, younger target audience, YouTube & Instagram celebrities) and less focused on what made the previous versions most enjoyable which was depth, personality and connection.

    seconded.

    take these for instance.
    • strangerville wasn't a 'nostalgia treat' for stranger town players but rather for those who were familar with netflix's stranger things.
    • a family oriented gameplay (parenthood) being squished in a gamepack and a full expansion pack centered around fame and instagram (get famous).
    • sulani focusing more on the pretty looks and instagrammable land scenes for taking photos and shoots instead of having immersion and actual gameplay.
    • and 99% of the worlds focus more on aesthetics and low quality backgrounds and vast amount of invisible walls. we're closing near to 2020 people and we're still dealing with invisible walls within close perimeter.

    Well said!
    OriginID: hestiah23 | Showcase
    jfIpSFy.png
  • SindocatSindocat Posts: 3,912 Member
    What integral family togetherness play is there? This is an honest question. It feels like all the sims are roommates and not family members, as there is not many fun togetherness activities. There are MULTIPLE single sim activities. I only can assume that you are a millenial and don't get the concept of detailed family gameplay which I am looking to have. I am part of Gen X (entering my 4th decade IRL), right before millenials.

    The gameplay is currently boring for those of us who play long legacies. I have one family I currently play which is on generation 6 (this file is on long lifespan). The gameplay currently caters to the YA, party lifestyle, with only playing 1 to 2 sims. I always play with 4 to 6 sims because otherwise I get bored even faster.

    I am 51 this year. My sister's kids are Millenials. Please don't make assumptions about people you don't know, or sweeping generalizations about what various demographic groups are like.

    Volunteer As A Family is a rabbit-hole activity, but it does spawn chance cards for participants, builds Values for kids and teens, and is a group activity. My families do this to celebrate birthdays, weddings, and other significant milestones.

    Help with school projects is integral family play. I find my kids and teens tend to get school projects on the same day. Usually, I have the parents either split up, and one help each child, have everyone help the youngest first, or have the teen start alone, let the parents help the younger first, then join him to finish up. They gain social interaction all through this, since even if they aren't on the same project, they are in the same space.

    I routinely have a Sim "Call to Meal" everyone for a shared dinner. One kid - whoever needs the most work on Manners - will have set the table. My families seem to enjoy sitting down together, and converse without prompting.

    My kids autonomously play with each other. Adults and teens will spontaneously join a child playing with the dollhouse. Even when adults are pursuing their own activities, their kids seek them out. Maybe a Convivial Lot Trait is driving a lot of this, I don't know. But even without me steering them, my Sims families seem genuinely close.

    As I have said elsewhere, my main standard of comparison for family play is The Sims 3: Generations. I think Parenthood is at least as good at this, and in many respects actually better. Family play is the focus of my Simming, and I find it completely absorbing, heartwarming, and fun.
  • SimaniteSimanite Posts: 4,833 Member
    @Sofmc9 OMG SO CUTE! I didn't know. <3
  • Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 1,593 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Simanite wrote: »
    ...in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

    Oh, dear.

    This is exactly what I was afraid this thread would be when I clicked it.

    Without mods, gay couples have been adopting and raising kids since TS2.

    With mods, my gay couples have been raising biological offspring since TS3.

    Without mods, in TS4, I am finally able to have bio kids with my original (remade) Sims couple, and they are building a legacy.

    Family play is supported. It has options in TS4 that it never has had before. I imagine an education expansion will happen at some point, that will broaden options further. And any game content can enhance family play, if you let it. Laundry Day? More chores! Or what have you.

    Also, I will say this once:

    Gay people have families. Married couples are families. Maxis agrees. If you disagree, this game may disappoint you.
    Gay couples in Sims 3 can have biological offspring without mods, this is not new for Sims 4. I also disagree this feature covers “family play”. It just covers genetics. And yes, gay families have families, but irl not exactly the way they can in the game. I’m glad for those who want it that it is possible in the game (it’s not about reality and genetics are important for many players), but I’ve always provided offspring for gay couples in my game the way real life gay people do that. It definitely can be biological, but a third party is needed, one way or the other.

    This to me is an oxymorom. Its not gay couples that can have bio kids . It sims that are trans that can have bio kids ,In sims into the future you can go to the hostspital.And can einginer a kid .In Sims 4 they have pregancy options .I think its weird to say si,s 4 has rich game play . Because they have an option to men preganant.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,600 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Simanite wrote: »
    ...in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

    Oh, dear.

    This is exactly what I was afraid this thread would be when I clicked it.

    Without mods, gay couples have been adopting and raising kids since TS2.

    With mods, my gay couples have been raising biological offspring since TS3.

    Without mods, in TS4, I am finally able to have bio kids with my original (remade) Sims couple, and they are building a legacy.

    Family play is supported. It has options in TS4 that it never has had before. I imagine an education expansion will happen at some point, that will broaden options further. And any game content can enhance family play, if you let it. Laundry Day? More chores! Or what have you.

    Also, I will say this once:

    Gay people have families. Married couples are families. Maxis agrees. If you disagree, this game may disappoint you.
    Gay couples in Sims 3 can have biological offspring without mods, this is not new for Sims 4. I also disagree this feature covers “family play”. It just covers genetics. And yes, gay families have families, but irl not exactly the way they can in the game. I’m glad for those who want it that it is possible in the game (it’s not about reality and genetics are important for many players), but I’ve always provided offspring for gay couples in my game the way real life gay people do that. It definitely can be biological, but a third party is needed, one way or the other.

    This to me is an oxymorom. Its not gay couples that can have bio kids . It sims that are trans that can have bio kids ,In sims into the future you can go to the hostspital.And can einginer a kid .In Sims 4 they have pregancy options .I think its weird to say si,s 4 has rich game play . Because they have an option to men preganant.
    Males in Sims 3 can get pregnant too, by aliens. Indeed not by other males though, or females for that matter. I like it that is possible now (because players obviously like and want that) but no, I wouldn’t consider that rich gameplay (family play) myself. Just an option. I don’t really have an opinion on that subject as such by the way. I like the examples and pictures that show family play in Sims 4. I have no idea how it works though because I never played a family in the game (and I don’t have Parenthood, that matters I think).
  • fruitsbasket101fruitsbasket101 Posts: 804 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Sindocat wrote: »
    Simanite wrote: »
    ...in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

    Oh, dear.

    This is exactly what I was afraid this thread would be when I clicked it.

    Without mods, gay couples have been adopting and raising kids since TS2.

    With mods, my gay couples have been raising biological offspring since TS3.

    Without mods, in TS4, I am finally able to have bio kids with my original (remade) Sims couple, and they are building a legacy.

    Family play is supported. It has options in TS4 that it never has had before. I imagine an education expansion will happen at some point, that will broaden options further. And any game content can enhance family play, if you let it. Laundry Day? More chores! Or what have you.

    Also, I will say this once:

    Gay people have families. Married couples are families. Maxis agrees. If you disagree, this game may disappoint you.
    Gay couples in Sims 3 can have biological offspring without mods, this is not new for Sims 4. I also disagree this feature covers “family play”. It just covers genetics. And yes, gay families have families, but irl not exactly the way they can in the game. I’m glad for those who want it that it is possible in the game (it’s not about reality and genetics are important for many players), but I’ve always provided offspring for gay couples in my game the way real life gay people do that. It definitely can be biological, but a third party is needed, one way or the other.

    This to me is an oxymorom. Its not gay couples that can have bio kids . It sims that are trans that can have bio kids ,In sims into the future you can go to the hostspital.And can einginer a kid .In Sims 4 they have pregancy options .I think its weird to say si,s 4 has rich game play . Because they have an option to men preganant.
    Males in Sims 3 can get pregnant too, by aliens. Indeed not by other males though, or females for that matter. I like it that is possible now (because players obviously like and want that) but no, I wouldn’t consider that rich gameplay (family play) myself. Just an option. I don’t really have an opinion on that subject as such by the way. I like the examples and pictures that show family play in Sims 4. I have no idea how it works though because I never played a family in the game (and I don’t have Parenthood, that matters I think).

    Just wanted to add that they could also get pregnant through Grim's Manor from the sims 3 store. Just go and ask Grimmy to "simulate genetic meger with" and your male sim could get pregnant with their male partners baby.
    Have a super fantastic awesome splendid amazing day! -TheQxxn
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 31,029 Member
    IceyJ wrote: »

    Awesome. So they'll probably continue improving the life stages. I really hope that elders get some love this time around (in addition to babies.) My fear is that statistics show that simmers don't play with elders, so they'll be ignored. But perhaps few of us play with them because they need more content. Same with babies.

    By the way, if this tweet was linked to support the earlier statements, it still does not match the claim that family play doesn't appeal to simmers so Parenthood was made into a gamepack. :)

    Two years since Parenthood, I haven't seen anyone say family play has improved more since the pack. I guess he meant much, much later down the road.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 1,785 Member
    ChadSims2 wrote: »
    My families swim, dance, read, paint, and travel together. They also play music together and make sand sculptures.
    So your families swim but dont interact together when they do so... your Sims dance in the same area but not together... they paint solo at their own easal next to each other... play music "together" but not really as they're all playing their own song... I guess I'll give you building sand castles with an entire 2 Sims since you cant have a group of 3-4 Sims do that together and they can travel together and do a lot of solo activities

    families do interact went swimming. They Splash each other and stuff like that. And parents can teach toddlers how to dance but the animation of child Sim dancing on his parents feet was better in Sims 2.
  • SimAlexandriaSimAlexandria Posts: 1,785 Member
    It's not like there's NOTHING for families, even if I do want more haha

    Parents playing with kids in the pool
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    Working together on homework
    3ootTSm.png

    Lucy hugs her recently moved out son Mexico who has made it home in time for Easter dinner
    3bOTgQY.png

    Cairo autonomously comforts his little sister Victoria
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    Alexandria encourages her son Jeremiah to blow out his candles, he was feeling a bit down that day
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    Sarah chats with her daughter Connor about life while they build a snowpal together
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    Everyone got up early to open their Christmas gifts in the Quinn household
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    I could post loads more, I take tons of screencaps and play mostly families haha!
  • NorthDakotaGamerNorthDakotaGamer Posts: 1,782 Member
    edited August 12
    Sindocat wrote: »
    What integral family togetherness play is there? This is an honest question. It feels like all the sims are roommates and not family members, as there is not many fun togetherness activities. There are MULTIPLE single sim activities. I only can assume that you are a millenial and don't get the concept of detailed family gameplay which I am looking to have. I am part of Gen X (entering my 4th decade IRL), right before millenials.

    The gameplay is currently boring for those of us who play long legacies. I have one family I currently play which is on generation 6 (this file is on long lifespan). The gameplay currently caters to the YA, party lifestyle, with only playing 1 to 2 sims. I always play with 4 to 6 sims because otherwise I get bored even faster.

    I am 51 this year. My sister's kids are Millenials. Please don't make assumptions about people you don't know, or sweeping generalizations about what various demographic groups are like.

    Volunteer As A Family is a rabbit-hole activity, but it does spawn chance cards for participants, builds Values for kids and teens, and is a group activity. My families do this to celebrate birthdays, weddings, and other significant milestones.

    Help with school projects is integral family play. I find my kids and teens tend to get school projects on the same day. Usually, I have the parents either split up, and one help each child, have everyone help the youngest first, or have the teen start alone, let the parents help the younger first, then join him to finish up. They gain social interaction all through this, since even if they aren't on the same project, they are in the same space.

    I routinely have a Sim "Call to Meal" everyone for a shared dinner. One kid - whoever needs the most work on Manners - will have set the table. My families seem to enjoy sitting down together, and converse without prompting.

    My kids autonomously play with each other. Adults and teens will spontaneously join a child playing with the dollhouse. Even when adults are pursuing their own activities, their kids seek them out. Maybe a Convivial Lot Trait is driving a lot of this, I don't know. But even without me steering them, my Sims families seem genuinely close.

    As I have said elsewhere, my main standard of comparison for family play is The Sims 3: Generations. I think Parenthood is at least as good at this, and in many respects actually better. Family play is the focus of my Simming, and I find it completely absorbing, heartwarming, and fun.

    All the sims still act purely like roommates. There is no meaningful family connections in anything you just posted.
  • ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 1,587 Member
    I mentioned this in another thread, but I think it bares repeating here. The lack of group/family interactions are sad, but the annoying thing is that there are so many small things they could add to make it better.

    Example: Toddlers can't do anything together except talk to each other, hug, and use a dollhouse (and even then, they're just playing by them self with another toddler just standing next to them). Wouldn't it be great if toddlers could actually able to grab some toys and play together, interact, look at each other, babble/talk to each other while playing? Show that they are acknowledging the other toddler's existence. Like in the kiddie pool, let the toddlers splash each other, and have the parents interact with the other toddler and their parent, not just the toddler they are holding. Currently it feels like the 2 groups don't even recognize that there is anyone else using the pool with them. The older life stages can splash each other in the water, so why can't toddlers in the kiddie pool? I get that some kids might act like they're in their own little world, but the option to splash their sibling or play together with pool toys would be nice.

    I'd like to see similar stuff for the ball pit and big toddler jungle gym. Show that the toddlers are playing with others. Give more little interactions that show that these two+ people are aware of the other's existence. And we need more than just a dollhouse in terms of toys for two children (which again, is lacking in portraying two kids playing with each other anyway). Let the toddlers (and kids) play with toy cars or stuffed animals on the floor together or something. Something else that would be nice, would be letting more than 2 kids/toddlers do this. It's sad having triplets when the dollhouse can only be used by 2 sims max, so one will always be left out. It would be great to let many kids play with these toys.

    Small things like that would add so much more to these interactions and make them actually feel closer.
  • ceyricceyric Posts: 1,576 Member
    Probably because they only want to appeal to Gen Z teens, which means nothing but social media, selfies, and parties

    I totally agree with you. It's sad to me that like 95% of this game is dedicated solely to single, young adult gameplay. Babies-kids and elders have barely anything to do or anything unique to them, and teens are just young adults with a slightly difference face. My only hopes for this game are that we can get a baby update and Generations-type pack to improve on the vastly lacking family play and non-YA life stages.

    Yes, all of the celebrity endorsements and game cameos, along with them removing adults and elders from their old cover art and only putting into teenage/YA girls in their new one honestly speaks volumes on their target audience priorities.
    keep on keepin' on
  • ceyricceyric Posts: 1,576 Member
    i remember SimGuruGrant tweeting that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only. he also refused to update the babies when Lyndsay Pearson asked him to do so. he personally believes there's no immersion in playing with families and that directly affects the output of the game. so that explains it.

    it's Grant Rodiek decision why we are left asking for more family interactions.

    a family-oriented expansion pack, aka Generations could have been better than Get Famous..

    most of us obviously need more family oriented game play, a full expansion pack dedicated to that aspect i supposed. but no, they be releasing full expansion packs like get famous to cater more on rich instagram girls with rich daddies and stuff who are willing to throw their money at EA no matter how bad the pack is.

    I'm honestly not surprised. He is the lead developer and he is the reason why TS4 is the way that it is now. Oh well.
    keep on keepin' on
  • telemwilltelemwill Posts: 243 Member
    I forgot about the school projects. Those are fun, but I wish not all the kids in the family brought them home the same day.

  • Sofmc9Sofmc9 Posts: 385 Member
    @Simanite Yeah :3 maybe you can do this if you want, have a sim a parent give a child milk and cookies at night. : 3 You can give it from their inventory or as a present lol

    kRn1e0p.png

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    Then read a bedtime story

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    And random pics ; )

    she has that book since she was a toddler

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    Encouraging child to draw

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    Gave art to parent as a gift

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    Viewing the painting

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