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Devs,please fix the base game before adding more themed packs

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EliharbEliharb Posts: 476 Member
edited June 2019 in The Sims 4 Game Feedback
I reaaally like CAS in TS4, I think it's the best looking and most diverse one yet. The graphics are nice and the loading times are not bad at all. But that's about it... TS4 is a GAME, and it's so lacking 5 years in that it's not even funny:
  • No motivation to keep playing (like wants/fears)
  • No chemistry
  • hideous generated townies that are bugged and ignored since City Living (clothes and names)
  • annoying sims appearing everywhere in random npc jobs
  • no proper NPCs: burglar, repo man, social worker or any sense of humor/risk/challenge
  • no cars (even schoolbuses and carpools and personal cars ts2 style)
  • no proper memories for sims to feel like they have some history, or lived a little.
  • packs are just themes and not expanded meaningful gameplay that builds pack after pack. The only packs that really added a meaningful system are Get Together and Parenthood maybe. And those were the last two where a system outlived the pack.
All of these things can be fixed if they just focus on them now instead of adding meaningless things that bloat the game and keep it super boring. Sure we need university, of course we need beaches and sure you want to try new things with packs like Strangerville. But dropping things that made the game so deep(memories,chemistry,humor in tragedy) and showcased all the things that were being added to the game (wants/fears would suggest things that are available to do), is a HUGE oversight.
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Post edited by Eliharb on

Comments

  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 389 Member
    Couldn't have said it better.

    If the basegame is lacking that spark, good functionality and proper features from previous iterations then no amount of packs is going to make up for that. Something will always feel missing.

    I could play The Sims 2 with no expansions for years (I didn't get my first two expansions until about three years later) and it felt wholesome, whilst The Sims 4 basegame feels like a demo after they removed the things they did.
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  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,918 Member
    That's what I'm saying since 2016. Without intersting sims and a personality overhaul, the game will stay lame and boring. I can already tell IL won't keep me interested that long.
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • rambahadoerrambahadoer Posts: 405 Member
    Yes this exactly i just keep hoping that they hear us ofc the packs are nice but i only get invested for a couple days and then i run in to the same issues i just lose interest while with ts3 i could play for hours on hours and still enjoyed it
  • Renato10Renato10 Posts: 472 Member
    edited June 2019
    This post is a resume of the reason I don't love The Sims 4 like I love the previous three games. All of that and open world and customization all over (not only color wheel but 3D maps with the possibility of editing with objects and more lots). Yeah...I already know its not possible for The Sims 4 but I really hope they would considere to bring that back in The Sims 5. This game needs to return to its routes... The Sims 4 looks like an outsider and even after trying several times in this long five years, I can't love this game... I don't feel the same I still feel even with The Sims 1.
  • nerdfashionnerdfashion Posts: 5,947 Member
    I agree with you on a lot of this, but there are a few things I have to point out.

    First of all, Get Together and Parenthood are the only packs that add meaningful gameplay is an opinion, but I feel you stated it as a fact. I'm an occult player, and not a family player, and as a result I don't even own Parenthood and really enjoyed Vampires. Seasons was an incredible pack, and I seem to be in the minority of people who enjoyed Get Famous.

    Second, cars are extremely unlikely to come to The Sims 4 this late. Sure, we now have boats and jet-skis with Island Living, but we shouldn't get our hopes up.

    Third, making things for games like this take time. You can't expect everything to be perfect, and you can report bugs that need to be fixed. Just because it hasn't been yet, doesn't mean it won't. For example, there is a house in Del Sol Valley that has the most annoying glitch ever, and they still don't know what's happening. They might still be trying to figure out how to fix the townies, we don't know.

    I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just stating my opinion. Sorry if it came across as rude.
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  • ListentoToppDoggListentoToppDogg Posts: 2,103 Member
    I totally agree. We need major updates to the base game to make the game actually enjoyable, because packs just get boring over a while. The sims and their actions and personalities need a major overhaul.
  • BreeNillaBreeNilla Posts: 160 Member
    This is my biggest complaint about the game!! They put graphics over gameplay so much and they pile content on top of a broken foundation. Fans don't even realize it's happening, they just keep asking for more because they get bored so quickly, but if we had a more stable base (like giving the sims more individuality/personality through traits/reactions/animations), I'm sure the fun in each pack will last longer.

    I can't even get excited for the new pack. Yeah, it looks nice, but I'm more excited about the potential bug fixes and updates and hope it makes an impact.
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  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    PREACH!!!

    We need some serious attention dedicated to Sim personalities and balancing the game back out with threat of failures, less happy, more sensible and believable reactions, and fears and flaws. These Sims have no individuality whatsoever.

    I have a feeling that once the initial high of Island Living is over, people are going to be bored and looking for the next thing again, lodging complaints and not quite understanding why the pack burns out so quickly. Well, this is why. The game never should have released in such a sorry, incomplete state. Especially when the prospect of fixing these things seems like such a challenge.

    Personalities should have been improved long ago. It should have been first priority while the game was still small enough to manage. I just can't justify buying this new pack until the actual gameplay exists in the base game.
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  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 11,966 Member
    edited June 2019
    LiELF wrote: »
    PREACH!!!

    We need some serious attention dedicated to Sim personalities and balancing the game back out with threat of failures, less happy, more sensible and believable reactions, and fears and flaws. These Sims have no individuality whatsoever.

    I have a feeling that once the initial high of Island Living is over, people are going to be bored and looking for the next thing again, lodging complaints and not quite understanding why the pack burns out so quickly. Well, this is why. The game never should have released in such a sorry, incomplete state. Especially when the prospect of fixing these things seems like such a challenge.

    Personalities should have been improved long ago. It should have been first priority while the game was still small enough to manage. I just can't justify buying this new pack until the actual gameplay exists in the base game.

    Believe me I feel the same as that how I feel with every pack and for the best pack that I really liked was GT and almost forgot Parent hood.
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  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    edited June 2019
    Unlikely to happen. It's been 5 years, and the base game of The Sims 4 remains just as boring and poorly designed since. The core game simply lacks real life simulation design.

    The Sims 4's core game consists of whims, aspirations, and the reward store. There unfortunately isn't much else to it.

    Whims are a useless re-hash of the wants system of The Sims 2. In fact, they're so much a waste of time, the developers have turned this system off by default now, as of a recent patch.

    They reward your Sim with a measly 25-50 satisfaction points, whereas the decent rewards cost upwards of thousands. So why should I send my Sim to the library to read a book, waste my own time incurring a loading screen, so they get ONLY 50 points? The Sims 2's Wants system was balanced and realistic. If Sims didn't do what they wanted, they'd get depressed. Again, realistic; we all get depressed when we don't go after our wants in life. TS2's Wants were always impacted by the personality, environment, and interests of my Sim. Additionally, it was offset by Fears, adding a layer of depth/challenge to the mix.

    Aspirations are universally the same in everyone's game and have mostly been unchanged since 2014, with the same old linear and specific quest-like commands to achieve meaningless rewards. E.g: My painter Sim has to do things like paint 3 times while inspired, go to a museum and simply look at art, etc. just for a reward trait that doesn't really do much. Nothing else to really say on this topic, it's just a terribly designed system that is the opposite of what The Sims usually provides -- freedom.

    And then we get to the reward system which, to summarize, makes an already terribly easy game even easier. Rewards are mostly "traits" that just delay Sim Needs from decaying quickly. In The Sims 2, rewards were awesome, creatively designed objects that offset a sometimes challenging game, and were fun to play/experiment with.

    You remove these three things from the equation of The Sims 4, and what else do you have? A "life simulator" where you play with an annoying emotion system and grinding careers/skills before your Sim dies. It's like someone thought The Sims 2 and The Sims 3 were neat and tried to design this game in their image, but failed to actually make it fun/unique.
  • PrincipleOfEntropyPrincipleOfEntropy Posts: 389 Member
    @Sk8rblaze Oh wow I miss those reward objects from 2 so much. Every one of them was new and unique. Every career had a unique reward object too once you got to a high enough point, like the speech podium for politics or the mini golf course for business, and they all built skills. In 4 career rewards for base game jobs are just existing objects with different looks, no new functionality, no curiosity, nothing. Dull, dull dull.

    In Sims 4, the culinary career grants a knife rack on the wall as one of its rewards. Purely decorative, no interactivity. Sims 2 had a miniature chocolate factory! New animations, it made money, built the cooking skill and restored some hunger all at once.

    It just feels like 2 had so much more thought put into it. Some of those aspiration rewards were powerful things, like the machine that would refill all of a Sim's needs, but you couldn't just up and use them. Use them with less than gold in terms of aspiration and you risked a negative outcome. Plus many had limited uses; the needs machine would burn out after five uses, the elixir of life would empty after several drinks. They actually felt like amazing rewards you had to earn the right to use.

    Aspirations in 4 are so boring. The same things, over and over again. Once you've completed one once in one file it just feels repetitive when you do it in another. 2's aspiration system, for steering a Sim's wants rather than having set goals, worked much better in my opinion. It required more input, more thought, without being overtly difficult if you played well. That and the fears added a whole new layer of gameplay to consider.
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  • EliharbEliharb Posts: 476 Member
    edited June 2019
    First of all, Get Together and Parenthood are the only packs that add meaningful gameplay is an opinion, but I feel you stated it as a fact. I'm an occult player, and not a family player, and as a result I don't even own Parenthood and really enjoyed Vampires. Seasons was an incredible pack, and I seem to be in the minority of people who enjoyed Get Famous.
    You're missing my point. I'm not saying I don't care for occults. Witches are my absolute favorite thing from TS1 and if you check my posts I've been obsessively demanding they do them justice in TS4. This isn't about that, we all miss things from previous iterations, here I'm talking about the lack of CORE gameplay that they cut out without any understanding of its importance. @Sk8rblaze laid it out quite well in his reply.

    I'm trying to be as constructive as possible in case any devs lurk around here for feedback: the game feels hollow because they cut out these things. Memories, wants/fears, proper risks and rewards at the end of aspirations and careers, etc. Systems that made the previous games have impactful gameplay and less make-believe which the TS4 team is embracing.

    Second, cars are extremely unlikely to come to The Sims 4 this late. Sure, we now have boats and jet-skis with Island Living, but we shouldn't get our hopes up.
    The fact that they added boats and jet-skis should be a sign that cars are coming next.
    Third, making things for games like this take time.
    I know things take time, that's why I'm still here 5 years in. I have hope that they'll prioritize and add these things in as they go forward.
    Post edited by Eliharb on
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  • Remy_GenevaRemy_Geneva Posts: 142 Member
    I agree with op and other posts when it comes to personalities. It is a complete joke that after almost 5 years, the core of the game (the actual sims) is lifeless. I can't create unique sims in the game, they all do the same things. Every sim reads, every sim uses the computer, every sim is obsessed with decor. I would think that something as a simple as likes and dislikes, would be a part of "unique personalities".

    Dating is a simple as spam romantic interactions until relationship bar fills up. I have said repeatedly that an attraction and friendship system of some kind would be game changing, story telling potential would immediately go up.

    I think a big problem is that traits cover personality, likes/dislikes and characteristics. So, if I pick a sim with cat lover, bookworm and foodie traits it doesn't leave any room for, you know the meat, like stubborn, shy, socially awkward or whatever. It's like its trying to do too many things that would have been much better off a separate pieces.

    With the recent news they revealed, it doesn't give me much hope that they'll make changes to the base game. They seem to be focused on adding new packs, youtubers and gimmicks like alexa and such. I don't have a problem with them adding things. However, when they advertise features that clearly are not there, with no improvement in almost 5 years, it makes me wonder if they think it's fine the way it is or that the update wouldn't make them as much money compared to a shiny new piece of dlc.
  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,470 Member
    edited June 2019
    LiELF wrote: »
    PREACH!!!

    We need some serious attention dedicated to Sim personalities and balancing the game back out with threat of failures, less happy, more sensible and believable reactions, and fears and flaws. These Sims have no individuality whatsoever.

    I have a feeling that once the initial high of Island Living is over, people are going to be bored and looking for the next thing again, lodging complaints and not quite understanding why the pack burns out so quickly. Well, this is why. The game never should have released in such a sorry, incomplete state. Especially when the prospect of fixing these things seems like such a challenge.

    Personalities should have been improved long ago. It should have been first priority while the game was still small enough to manage. I just can't justify buying this new pack until the actual gameplay exists in the base game.

    They could have easily delayed the release until the base game was ready and polished and I'm sure we would have been fine with that and they still would have made some great sales, but for some reason they felt they could get away with delivering it half baked and well... they did and they still are. I think, honestly, that's the reason why they aren't going to work on a fix. Its gotten to the point where they think everything is okay and there are a lot of players who have hopped on that bandwagon as well who are still buying and think this game is the absolute bees knees. Which is fine for them. But at the same time to say it has no flaws at all and nothing needs to be fixed well that's just being delusional.
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  • AlwaysTheSunAlwaysTheSun Posts: 388 Member
    Guys it's completely pointless. They won't add it as it probably wouldn't even work right.
    My family has 5 generations and half of Sims have been deleted from the family tree.
  • EnjoyfulSimmerEnjoyfulSimmer Posts: 1,242 Member
    Guys it's completely pointless. They won't add it as it probably wouldn't even work right.
    My family has 5 generations and half of Sims have been deleted from the family tree.

    by the game?
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  • Remy_GenevaRemy_Geneva Posts: 142 Member
    It would be good if they were to address the many issues with the base game, and the many, many bugs and flaws like the seating and stuff. One of the developers did say something about traits recently, but there was no acknowledgment of design flaws. It was more along the lines of "sims only have 3 traits because they trip over themselves if they have more", and something like "they wouldn't be unique with more traits". Which is laughable... I mean do they really believe they're even remotely unique now?

  • EliharbEliharb Posts: 476 Member
    edited June 2019
    It would be good if they were to address the many issues with the base game, and the many, many bugs and flaws like the seating and stuff. One of the developers did say something about traits recently, but there was no acknowledgment of design flaws. It was more along the lines of "sims only have 3 traits because they trip over themselves if they have more", and something like "they wouldn't be unique with more traits". Which is laughable... I mean do they really believe they're even remotely unique now?

    Which sims did you think had the best personalities or uniqueness in the 4 games?
    I think in sims in 1 and 2, where you could fill out personality points into "neat, active, outgoing, nice/mean, etc" worked pretty well. I don't remember if I really liked sims 3 traits since the sims in that one felt really robotic and waxy to me.

    This is why I think that aspirations and their wants/fears have a much more important role in making sims feel different to play with. In TS2, a romance sim is veeery different from a family or fortune sim, for example.

    But ultimately, I think the 3 previous games certainly did a better job with how sims behaved according to those options.
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  • Remy_GenevaRemy_Geneva Posts: 142 Member
    Eliharb wrote: »
    It would be good if they were to address the many issues with the base game, and the many, many bugs and flaws like the seating and stuff. One of the developers did say something about traits recently, but there was no acknowledgment of design flaws. It was more along the lines of "sims only have 3 traits because they trip over themselves if they have more", and something like "they wouldn't be unique with more traits". Which is laughable... I mean do they really believe they're even remotely unique now?

    Which sims did you think had the best personalities or uniqueness in the 4 games?
    I think in sims in 1 and 2, where you could fill out personality points into "neat, active, outgoing, nice/mean, etc" worked pretty well. I don't remember if I really liked sims 3 traits since the sims in that one felt really robotic and waxy to me.

    This is why I think that aspirations and their wants/fears have a much more important role in making sims feel different to play with. In TS2, a romance sim is veeery different from a family or fortune sim, for example.

    But ultimately, I think the 3 previous games certainly did a better job with how sims behaved according to those options.

    Sims 4 is the first sims game I have ever played actually, so I went in blind and optimistic. After doing a little research, it's very clear to me that TS2 has the most unique sims, when you factor in personality sliders, chemistry system, zodiac sign and so on.

    It's embarrassing that TS2 came out 15 years ago and still has better sim personalities than sims 4. There is no way to explain this other than oversight and poor game design, which seems to be a key features of sims 4. What makes it even worse is trying to understand why nothing has been done about it. There are way to many parts of this game that feel like they were rushed out to meet a deadline.

  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 11,966 Member
    Eliharb wrote: »
    It would be good if they were to address the many issues with the base game, and the many, many bugs and flaws like the seating and stuff. One of the developers did say something about traits recently, but there was no acknowledgment of design flaws. It was more along the lines of "sims only have 3 traits because they trip over themselves if they have more", and something like "they wouldn't be unique with more traits". Which is laughable... I mean do they really believe they're even remotely unique now?

    Which sims did you think had the best personalities or uniqueness in the 4 games?
    I think in sims in 1 and 2, where you could fill out personality points into "neat, active, outgoing, nice/mean, etc" worked pretty well. I don't remember if I really liked sims 3 traits since the sims in that one felt really robotic and waxy to me.

    This is why I think that aspirations and their wants/fears have a much more important role in making sims feel different to play with. In TS2, a romance sim is veeery different from a family or fortune sim, for example.

    But ultimately, I think the 3 previous games certainly did a better job with how sims behaved according to those options.

    Sims 4 is the first sims game I have ever played actually, so I went in blind and optimistic. After doing a little research, it's very clear to me that TS2 has the most unique sims, when you factor in personality sliders, chemistry system, zodiac sign and so on.

    It's embarrassing that TS2 came out 15 years ago and still has better sim personalities than sims 4. There is no way to explain this other than oversight and poor game design, which seems to be a key features of sims 4. What makes it even worse is trying to understand why nothing has been done about it. There are way to many parts of this game that feel like they were rushed out to meet a deadline.

    I agree with your post and the lack of personality in Sims 4 has been done by design Imho because EA/Maxis does not want to stress out lower end machines and in turn those that have more than capable systems are effected by it as well as Sims 4 cannot scale to an high end system. All systems are treated the same and the only difference one may see is graphically. For some better features are not necessary because for them Sims 4 runs well even if it does not have many robust features. Also, EA/Maxis is catering to an new generation of players so far as dwvelopers preference goes EA/Maxis is one of the only companies that caters to low and some mid level systems.
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  • EliharbEliharb Posts: 476 Member
    edited June 2019
    Goldmoldar wrote: »

    I agree with your post and the lack of personality in Sims 4 has been done by design Imho because EA/Maxis does not want to stress out lower end machines and in turn those that have more than capable systems are effected by it as well as Sims 4 cannot scale to an high end system.

    That's a tired excuse they're using. I don't believe traits or deeper aspiration gameplay would have made the game run worse *cough* TS2 coming out in 2004 *cough*. The things that make the game run better are an optimized engine which we thankfully have. Loading isn't bad at all, no crashes ever on my end. I don't want to say they sacrificed too much for "performance", because performance is really important, but i feel like it's an exaggeration to hide the fact they're doing alot less with TS4. TS3 churned out content via packs and the store non-stop. But it was an unoptimized 32-bit mess that could have benefited from more ram. If only they found a balance between content/performance in TS4 :(

    We'll see going forward, when the game becomes 64-bit only, if we'll get better updates, bigger worlds, changes to existing things. Then we'll see if performance was really the reason they butchered so many important features.
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  • Remy_GenevaRemy_Geneva Posts: 142 Member
    @Goldmoldar I appreciate your opinion, however I must agree with @Eliharb here. If low end systems were to blame for TS4 having sims with no personality (let alone them being unique), how would we explain TS2 from way back in 2004. Also if we think about it, TS4 has the club system which enables you to modify the behaviour of sims that are part club. This could (theoretically) be applied to individual sims, giving them activities that they like and dislike, e.g. reading or using the computer etc.

    If you are right Goldmoldar, and this has been done by design (regardless of the reason), the developers will be well aware that the core of their game is hollow. Again, this would be yet another example of poor game design. In my opinion, trying to overhaul personalities now would be a very difficult task, even though there's not much there to start with, so they have that going for them I guess.

    I think the best thing they could do is:
    • add in a chemistry system
    • use the club system as a template for sims having activities they like or dislike
    • use the sims having likes a dislikes for relationship and chemistry system for friendship and romances
    • add more relationship types in CAS like aunt, uncle. fiance, girlfriend, boyfriend etc
    • Make whims relevant to what sims are currently doing (like sim in swimming pool wanting to do a dive or sim on a date wanting to kiss)
    • Consequences and memories (probably the most difficult to do)

    There is no way that this can't be done, they aren't trying to sprout wings and fly. It's code, where there's a will, there's a way.

    The question is, is there a will?

  • rambahadoerrambahadoer Posts: 405 Member
    @Goldmoldar I appreciate your opinion, however I must agree with @Eliharb here. If low end systems were to blame for TS4 having sims with no personality (let alone them being unique), how would we explain TS2 from way back in 2004. Also if we think about it, TS4 has the club system which enables you to modify the behaviour of sims that are part club. This could (theoretically) be applied to individual sims, giving them activities that they like and dislike, e.g. reading or using the computer etc.

    If you are right Goldmoldar, and this has been done by design (regardless of the reason), the developers will be well aware that the core of their game is hollow. Again, this would be yet another example of poor game design. In my opinion, trying to overhaul personalities now would be a very difficult task, even though there's not much there to start with, so they have that going for them I guess.

    I think the best thing they could do is:
    • add in a chemistry system
    • use the club system as a template for sims having activities they like or dislike
    • use the sims having likes a dislikes for relationship and chemistry system for friendship and romances
    • add more relationship types in CAS like aunt, uncle. fiance, girlfriend, boyfriend etc
    • Make whims relevant to what sims are currently doing (like sim in swimming pool wanting to do a dive or sim on a date wanting to kiss)
    • Consequences and memories (probably the most difficult to do)

    There is no way that this can't be done, they aren't trying to sprout wings and fly. It's code, where there's a will, there's a way.

    The question is, is there a will?

    This would be great if they added this i really really hope they will this would make the game feel much more alive and interesting to play and i completely agree the sims 2 a game that is 15 YEARS OLD to this day still has so much more to offer much more drama and personality i just wish ts4 will get to this level
  • GosiaWKGosiaWK Posts: 56 Member
    I may be kind of a weird person, but I played the sims 4 before the sims 3... I liked it when I played it, but then I played the sims 3 and now the sims 4 is lacking. It's still an awesome game, but I get bored of it easily. I need challenges or savage things to do to my sims or else I get bored! I agree with everyone on this thread, these things need to implemented, or just add a couple to make the gameplay more immersive (although I gotta admit, when they added terrain tools, I cried watching that video (tears of joy) in TS3 it was fun to use, and I was happy that it made a comeback)
  • drakharisdrakharis Posts: 1,478 Member
    Eliharb wrote: »
    I reaaally like CAS in TS4, I think it's the best looking and diverse one yet. The graphics are nice and the loading times are not bad at all. But that's about it... TS4 is a GAME, and it's so lacking 5 years in that it's not even funny:
    • No motivation to keep playing (like wants/fears)
    • No chemistry
    • hideous generated townies that are bugged and ignored since City Living (clothes and names)
    • annoying sims appearing everywhere in random npc jobs
    • no proper NPCs: burglar, repo man, social worker or any sense of humor/risk/challenge
    • no cars (even schoolbuses and carpools and personal cars ts2 style)
    • no proper memories for sims to feel like they have some history, or lived a little.
    • packs are just themes and not expanded meaningful gameplay that builds pack after pack. The only packs that really added a meaningful system are Get Together and Parenthood maybe. And those were the last two where a system outlived the pack.
    All of these things can be fixed if they just focus on them now instead of adding meaningless things that bloat the game and keep it super boring. Sure we need university, of course we need beaches and sure you want to try new things with packs like Strangerville. But dropping things that made the game so deep(memories,chemistry,humor in tragedy) and showcased all the things that were being added to the game (wants/fears would suggest things that are available to do), is a HUGE oversight.

    I couldn't have said it better myself. I miss the "little things" that Sims 2 and 3 had to enrich the whole gameplay experience. I never once used mods or CC in The Sims, Sims 2 and Sims 3 not even with Medieval.

    Sims with no manners just breaking into your home and going straight for your computer. Not a hey how you doing. I hate most of the premades in San Myshuno. They have no manners, invade your home and are just so plumb annoying. .
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