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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old

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  • SeloBeeSeloBee Posts: 177 Member
    Iguess66 wrote: »
    Very little progress has been made in 4 years. Unless they start focusing on what really needs attention like traits and personalities, TS4 will always be one of the worst in the series.

    Sadly, I completely agree.
    The world is quiet here
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited May 2019
    I just thought about something, in four months I will have to change the title from TS4 four years to five years. Pitiful. ETA: And what's even worse is I'm still here...waiting.......
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • luvdasims55luvdasims55 Posts: 14,645 Member
    Ya, I was thinking about that awhile back. :(
  • Evil_OneEvil_One Posts: 4,423 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I just thought about something, in four months I will have to change the title from TS4 four years to five years. Pitiful. ETA: And what's even worse is I'm still here...waiting.......

    It wouldn't matter if it were 500 years, assuming any fans were left by then... They'd still be waiting.
    raw
  • ShadowmarkedShadowmarked Posts: 1,054 Member
    edited May 2019
    Ah I remember when this first started up, it was right around when I left this place for the most part. It is closer to five years old now than four isn't it.

    I still check in every once and a while too. Part of having grown up with the game, its hard to let it go. I suppose us fans will be waiting until this series is put solidly in the ground. For the next DLC or base game, we are always waiting.
  • Adria22Adria22 Posts: 16 Member
    Yea I agree with you guys. I have played The sims 2,3 and now 4 but let me tell you it IS the real step back. Maybe I am in minority but I really could see this coming way before release. It was so obvious that this iteration would be lacking in almost every way.

    Todllers were missing! Open world was missing, pools, create a style, proper memories...and what actually WAS in the game? I can see only one improvement - graphics. I really hated The sims 3 plastic sims and ok optimalization is also somewhat better but certainly not perfect.

    They took everything and gave nothing back. I hoped that this iteration will be over soon but it is actually the opposite. Oh well...
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    Adria22 wrote: »
    Yea I agree with you guys. I have played The sims 2,3 and now 4 but let me tell you it IS the real step back. Maybe I am in minority but I really could see this coming way before release. It was so obvious that this iteration would be lacking in almost every way.

    Todllers were missing! Open world was missing, pools, create a style, proper memories...and what actually WAS in the game? I can see only one improvement - graphics. I really hated The sims 3 plastic sims and ok optimalization is also somewhat better but certainly not perfect.

    They took everything and gave nothing back. I hoped that this iteration will be over soon but it is actually the opposite. Oh well...

    I know that sometimes people have a hard time seeing the benefits that Sims 4 brought, so I'm going to point them out because there are actually some things I hope are carried over to the next in the series and it's just as important to point out the things they did right as it is to criticize the things they did wrong.

    1. The return of rotational play - This is the number one most important feature to my personal play style, and it was originally eliminated from Sims 3, which is what made me dislike that game so much and ditch out after the base game. When it was shoehorned back in, it was clunky and conditional and complicated because the game was never intended to have it in the first place. Sims 4 brought it back, and although I still have some issues with some loss of player control (births happen on their own, Sims are chosen by the game for jobs against the player's wishes) I still see it as a huge improvement because I can actually play the game again.

    2. The ability to travel between any and all worlds and relocate Sims without penalties - This feature is absolutely an improvement over previous games. If we lost this feature to return to single world play, I would riot. Moving forward, the series should always include this, even if it means a loading screen between worlds. Being able to change environments, or move our Sims to a new world/neighborhood when an expansion comes out, while maintaining relationships, careers, etc, is progress.

    3. The ability to edit and delete townies and played households with ease - I love this feature and I use it all the time. It is so convenient to be able to just go through and delete the excessive pear-shaped townies or weird game-generated npcs. Sometimes I'll just jump in and update some of my households, like when Seasons came out and I had to give everyone Summer and Winter outfits. Just being able to do that from the map view and not having to jump into each and every household first is a godsend. This needs to carry over so the player retains the ability to edit the townies as we see fit.

    4. The Gallery - This isn't really part of the game itself, but the accessible Gallery is an extremely helpful feature to those of us who can't build worth a penny and don't like the Maxis builds. I used to have to go to external websites to find builds that I liked, download them, and then make sure I put them into the appropriate game folder while my game was closed. Now, being able to just open up the Gallery and grab builds to change a segment of the neighborhood in game to suit my preferred theme is very handy. I've seen people who love to download Sims because they don't want to take a lot of time to make specific faces or they have trouble making unique Sims. Plus, it allows people to share their creations with other players with ease. I love, love, love the Gallery.

    5. CAS - The CAS in Sims 4 is the best so far. There are so many different parts of a Sim that can be adjusted that, for the first time, I've been able to make really good likenesses of real life people and celebrities without any CC. The addition of cultural varieties in the hair and clothing and added skin tones have really branched out the selections so that Sims actually have a diversity that is distinguishable. Thick hair, curly hair, and wavy hair in varieties are finally a Thing. And the Unisex patch was one of the best additions to the base game they've ever done. I have wanted unisex clothing and hair since Sims 2 but the games have always been limiting in that way. This is a giant leap forward and I love it.

    I'm going to leave it at the top five, but some honorable mentions that have been added to the base are first person camera and toddlers, of course (which should have been in the base at release). Now, the things I've listed don't actually address much of the gameplay itself, (save for rotational play,) and that is where the big problems lie, particularly in the actual Sim personalities, or lack thereof. So it's easy to overlook the good things that were brought to the game because those things aren't enough to resolve issues that go so deep in a shallow game execution.
    #Team Occult
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,974 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    1. The return of rotational play - This is the number one most important feature to my personal play style, and it was originally eliminated from Sims 3, which is what made me dislike that game so much and ditch out after the base game. When it was shoehorned back in, it was clunky and conditional and complicated because the game was never intended to have it in the first place. Sims 4 brought it back, and although I still have some issues with some loss of player control (births happen on their own, Sims are chosen by the game for jobs against the player's wishes) I still see it as a huge improvement because I can actually play the game again.

    If I want to play rotationally, I go back to TS2. TS4 has shoehorned in rotational play as births, promotions, job choices are all chosen at random while you are not playing.
    LiELF wrote: »
    2. The ability to travel between any and all worlds and relocate Sims without penalties - This feature is absolutely an improvement over previous games. If we lost this feature to return to single world play, I would riot. Moving forward, the series should always include this, even if it means a loading screen between worlds. Being able to change environments, or move our Sims to a new world/neighborhood when an expansion comes out, while maintaining relationships, careers, etc, is progress.

    It's not really a "world" world. It's a very tiny map. We exchanged actual space and customization for a variety in backdrops.
    LiELF wrote: »
    3. The ability to edit and delete townies and played households with ease - I love this feature and I use it all the time. It is so convenient to be able to just go through and delete the excessive pear-shaped townies or weird game-generated npcs. Sometimes I'll just jump in and update some of my households, like when Seasons came out and I had to give everyone Summer and Winter outfits. Just being able to do that from the map view and not having to jump into each and every household first is a godsend. This needs to carry over so the player retains the ability to edit the townies as we see fit.

    Yet we need this, because we have ever generating townies every 1 simweek rather than having stable faces in the neighbourhood.
    LiELF wrote: »
    5. CAS - The CAS in Sims 4 is the best so far. There are so many different parts of a Sim that can be adjusted that, for the first time, I've been able to make really good likenesses of real life people and celebrities without any CC. The addition of cultural varieties in the hair and clothing and added skin tones have really branched out the selections so that Sims actually have a diversity that is distinguishable. Thick hair, curly hair, and wavy hair in varieties are finally a Thing. And the Unisex patch was one of the best additions to the base game they've ever done. I have wanted unisex clothing and hair since Sims 2 but the games have always been limiting in that way. This is a giant leap forward and I love it.

    We paid for this by losing easy modding with bodyshop and create a style from The Sims 3.


  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,470 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    1. The return of rotational play - This is the number one most important feature to my personal play style, and it was originally eliminated from Sims 3, which is what made me dislike that game so much and ditch out after the base game. When it was shoehorned back in, it was clunky and conditional and complicated because the game was never intended to have it in the first place. Sims 4 brought it back, and although I still have some issues with some loss of player control (births happen on their own, Sims are chosen by the game for jobs against the player's wishes) I still see it as a huge improvement because I can actually play the game again.

    If I want to play rotationally, I go back to TS2. TS4 has shoehorned in rotational play as births, promotions, job choices are all chosen at random while you are not playing.
    LiELF wrote: »
    2. The ability to travel between any and all worlds and relocate Sims without penalties - This feature is absolutely an improvement over previous games. If we lost this feature to return to single world play, I would riot. Moving forward, the series should always include this, even if it means a loading screen between worlds. Being able to change environments, or move our Sims to a new world/neighborhood when an expansion comes out, while maintaining relationships, careers, etc, is progress.

    It's not really a "world" world. It's a very tiny map. We exchanged actual space and customization for a variety in backdrops.
    LiELF wrote: »
    3. The ability to edit and delete townies and played households with ease - I love this feature and I use it all the time. It is so convenient to be able to just go through and delete the excessive pear-shaped townies or weird game-generated npcs. Sometimes I'll just jump in and update some of my households, like when Seasons came out and I had to give everyone Summer and Winter outfits. Just being able to do that from the map view and not having to jump into each and every household first is a godsend. This needs to carry over so the player retains the ability to edit the townies as we see fit.

    Yet we need this, because we have ever generating townies every 1 simweek rather than having stable faces in the neighbourhood.
    LiELF wrote: »
    5. CAS - The CAS in Sims 4 is the best so far. There are so many different parts of a Sim that can be adjusted that, for the first time, I've been able to make really good likenesses of real life people and celebrities without any CC. The addition of cultural varieties in the hair and clothing and added skin tones have really branched out the selections so that Sims actually have a diversity that is distinguishable. Thick hair, curly hair, and wavy hair in varieties are finally a Thing. And the Unisex patch was one of the best additions to the base game they've ever done. I have wanted unisex clothing and hair since Sims 2 but the games have always been limiting in that way. This is a giant leap forward and I love it.

    We paid for this by losing easy modding with bodyshop and create a style from The Sims 3.


    THIS!
    "Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    mirta000 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    1. The return of rotational play - This is the number one most important feature to my personal play style, and it was originally eliminated from Sims 3, which is what made me dislike that game so much and ditch out after the base game. When it was shoehorned back in, it was clunky and conditional and complicated because the game was never intended to have it in the first place. Sims 4 brought it back, and although I still have some issues with some loss of player control (births happen on their own, Sims are chosen by the game for jobs against the player's wishes) I still see it as a huge improvement because I can actually play the game again.

    If I want to play rotationally, I go back to TS2. TS4 has shoehorned in rotational play as births, promotions, job choices are all chosen at random while you are not playing.
    LiELF wrote: »
    2. The ability to travel between any and all worlds and relocate Sims without penalties - This feature is absolutely an improvement over previous games. If we lost this feature to return to single world play, I would riot. Moving forward, the series should always include this, even if it means a loading screen between worlds. Being able to change environments, or move our Sims to a new world/neighborhood when an expansion comes out, while maintaining relationships, careers, etc, is progress.

    It's not really a "world" world. It's a very tiny map. We exchanged actual space and customization for a variety in backdrops.
    LiELF wrote: »
    3. The ability to edit and delete townies and played households with ease - I love this feature and I use it all the time. It is so convenient to be able to just go through and delete the excessive pear-shaped townies or weird game-generated npcs. Sometimes I'll just jump in and update some of my households, like when Seasons came out and I had to give everyone Summer and Winter outfits. Just being able to do that from the map view and not having to jump into each and every household first is a godsend. This needs to carry over so the player retains the ability to edit the townies as we see fit.

    Yet we need this, because we have ever generating townies every 1 simweek rather than having stable faces in the neighbourhood.
    LiELF wrote: »
    5. CAS - The CAS in Sims 4 is the best so far. There are so many different parts of a Sim that can be adjusted that, for the first time, I've been able to make really good likenesses of real life people and celebrities without any CC. The addition of cultural varieties in the hair and clothing and added skin tones have really branched out the selections so that Sims actually have a diversity that is distinguishable. Thick hair, curly hair, and wavy hair in varieties are finally a Thing. And the Unisex patch was one of the best additions to the base game they've ever done. I have wanted unisex clothing and hair since Sims 2 but the games have always been limiting in that way. This is a giant leap forward and I love it.

    We paid for this by losing easy modding with bodyshop and create a style from The Sims 3.


    I think you're just trying to be contrary here, which I see a lot when people don't want to like anything about Sims 4. There's really no need. I give it plenty of criticism.

    1. I already addressed those rotational issues in my post. I also preferred Sims 2 rotational play, but I don't see them returning to time stop households. I would love it, but I don't think they'd do it.

    2. "Tiny" maps or not, the feature itself is awesome. If Sims 5 has large worlds or open worlds or whatever worlds they come up with, they still need to carry over this feature. Criticising the maps themselves is irrelevant to this. Open world in Sims 3 gave some extra space and creative ability, but it had to because it limited the player to a single static environment, albeit a larger one. Even Sims 2 gave more linked world/neighborhood options. I don't want to have to choose this world or that world for each save because by now, the player should be able to continue to have the choice of any world that is offered, without penalties.

    3. Again, it doesn't matter why. We just need to continue this feature because it is a progressive feature that puts townie control in the player's hands.

    4. We paid for Create a Style by losing the Bodyshop features and decent Sim creation. Choosing a million colors and patterns are no good to me when I can't even make a Sim's features the way I want them to look. It's superficial. I think for Sims 5 they should bring back the Bodyshop external program for additional customization and put Create a Style in there so it doesn't bog down the game, then add an easier, user-friendly way to import/export, and also add even more to the CAS customization we have now and improve on it, like height sliders and hand sizes, makeup opacity, etc.
    #Team Occult
  • mirta000mirta000 Posts: 2,974 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    2. "Tiny" maps or not, the feature itself is awesome. If Sims 5 has large worlds or open worlds or whatever worlds they come up with, they still need to carry over this feature. Criticising the maps themselves is irrelevant to this. Open world in Sims 3 gave some extra space and creative ability, but it had to because it limited the player to a single static environment, albeit a larger one. Even Sims 2 gave more linked world/neighborhood options. I don't want to have to choose this world or that world for each save because by now, the player should be able to continue to have the choice of any world that is offered, without penalties.

    you know how Cats and Dogs gave us a neighbourhood with nearly no lots? And how the biggest complaint is lack of lots? They could add new worlds a lot easier when the only sims in the world and the only lots in the world that mattered was in the world that you selected. If your PC could handle more, you could make a CUSTOM map, or add on to an existing map.
    A system like this also means that you can't run a custom themed world very well because all sims will mix everywhere.

    I honestly think that as a feature this cost us too dearly.
    LiELF wrote: »
    4. We paid for Create a Style by losing the Bodyshop features and decent Sim creation. Choosing a million colors and patterns are no good to me when I can't even make a Sim's features the way I want them to look. It's superficial. I think for Sims 5 they should bring back the Bodyshop external program for additional customization and put Create a Style in there so it doesn't bog down the game, then add an easier, user-friendly way to import/export, and also add even more to the CAS customization we have now and improve on it, like height sliders and hand sizes, makeup opacity, etc.

    I did not struggle with TS3 CAS. I got to say that likely what you disliked was the art style rather than CAS itself as you had the ability to make very unique looking sims, just like in TS2.
  • Adria22Adria22 Posts: 16 Member
    > @JoAnne65 said:
    > @Adria22 Plastic sims? That would be Sims 4.

    Yes I know what you mean. Sims 4 sims are also stylized but I don't mind that as much as in Sims 3. Maybe better word would be wax. Sims in 3 looked like from wax. It was horrendous. :smiley:
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    LiELF wrote: »
    mirta000 wrote: »
    LiELF wrote: »
    1. The return of rotational play - This is the number one most important feature to my personal play style, and it was originally eliminated from Sims 3, which is what made me dislike that game so much and ditch out after the base game. When it was shoehorned back in, it was clunky and conditional and complicated because the game was never intended to have it in the first place. Sims 4 brought it back, and although I still have some issues with some loss of player control (births happen on their own, Sims are chosen by the game for jobs against the player's wishes) I still see it as a huge improvement because I can actually play the game again.

    If I want to play rotationally, I go back to TS2. TS4 has shoehorned in rotational play as births, promotions, job choices are all chosen at random while you are not playing.
    LiELF wrote: »
    2. The ability to travel between any and all worlds and relocate Sims without penalties - This feature is absolutely an improvement over previous games. If we lost this feature to return to single world play, I would riot. Moving forward, the series should always include this, even if it means a loading screen between worlds. Being able to change environments, or move our Sims to a new world/neighborhood when an expansion comes out, while maintaining relationships, careers, etc, is progress.

    It's not really a "world" world. It's a very tiny map. We exchanged actual space and customization for a variety in backdrops.
    LiELF wrote: »
    3. The ability to edit and delete townies and played households with ease - I love this feature and I use it all the time. It is so convenient to be able to just go through and delete the excessive pear-shaped townies or weird game-generated npcs. Sometimes I'll just jump in and update some of my households, like when Seasons came out and I had to give everyone Summer and Winter outfits. Just being able to do that from the map view and not having to jump into each and every household first is a godsend. This needs to carry over so the player retains the ability to edit the townies as we see fit.

    Yet we need this, because we have ever generating townies every 1 simweek rather than having stable faces in the neighbourhood.
    LiELF wrote: »
    5. CAS - The CAS in Sims 4 is the best so far. There are so many different parts of a Sim that can be adjusted that, for the first time, I've been able to make really good likenesses of real life people and celebrities without any CC. The addition of cultural varieties in the hair and clothing and added skin tones have really branched out the selections so that Sims actually have a diversity that is distinguishable. Thick hair, curly hair, and wavy hair in varieties are finally a Thing. And the Unisex patch was one of the best additions to the base game they've ever done. I have wanted unisex clothing and hair since Sims 2 but the games have always been limiting in that way. This is a giant leap forward and I love it.

    We paid for this by losing easy modding with bodyshop and create a style from The Sims 3.


    I think you're just trying to be contrary here, which I see a lot when people don't want to like anything about Sims 4. There's really no need. I give it plenty of criticism.

    1. I already addressed those rotational issues in my post. I also preferred Sims 2 rotational play, but I don't see them returning to time stop households. I would love it, but I don't think they'd do it.

    2. "Tiny" maps or not, the feature itself is awesome. If Sims 5 has large worlds or open worlds or whatever worlds they come up with, they still need to carry over this feature. Criticising the maps themselves is irrelevant to this. Open world in Sims 3 gave some extra space and creative ability, but it had to because it limited the player to a single static environment, albeit a larger one. Even Sims 2 gave more linked world/neighborhood options. I don't want to have to choose this world or that world for each save because by now, the player should be able to continue to have the choice of any world that is offered, without penalties.

    3. Again, it doesn't matter why. We just need to continue this feature because it is a progressive feature that puts townie control in the player's hands.

    4. We paid for Create a Style by losing the Bodyshop features and decent Sim creation. Choosing a million colors and patterns are no good to me when I can't even make a Sim's features the way I want them to look. It's superficial. I think for Sims 5 they should bring back the Bodyshop external program for additional customization and put Create a Style in there so it doesn't bog down the game, then add an easier, user-friendly way to import/export, and also add even more to the CAS customization we have now and improve on it, like height sliders and hand sizes, makeup opacity, etc.

    1. They don't have to return to time stop mechanics, but in TS4 the baby still grows up without my input, and the game names the kids. That's a big no from rotational players. We don't even get a notice that hey they are about to be born (even with aging off btw), so we can rotate back to that family to name that baby. Not very much rotational support for Sims taking jobs we didn't asign them. Yes, it was patched years ago, but it still happens. Like my Dr. Who was working as a vendor (or dressed like one) at a festival...that got a grade of F from me. He was unemployed, (before any self employment careers) and there he was dressed in apron etc. The outfit wasn't even in his closet. Just crazy stuff like that. Got a D from me. Mr. and Mrs. Jetson (yes, I'm weird) were bombarded by her game given boyfriends, when I returned to them. So old gents she obvivously met while I wasn't playing her, who came by the house every night to see visit...they were in 'love'. Very little rotational play supported there. It's one thing to flirt when you see your own Sim out in the world but quite another to put them in relationship in TS2 vs TS4, which doesn't happen TS2. They may flirt in TS2, too, but they aren't in the panel as a romantic interest and breaking up my Sims' relationships I built for them.

    2. Small worlds is not a blessing, it's a step backwards to The Sims original map. In TS2 I had over one hundred of my own Sim homes in one 'world'. Don't fence me in. Then with more than fifteen added sub hoods. I don't like games that cramp my imagination of what to build, how much to build, and where they can go. I can't even dig a hole in TS4 to build an Indian Jones' dig site for my Sims to visit and discover things that I put down there for them to interact with and or for them to dig up. Crystals aren't my idea of finding needful or useful things.

    A game from 2004 had limitless ideas and imagination opportunities. TS4 is like MySims watered down version compared to TS2. It's like playing monoply on half a board. Sure, there is a Park Place but half the board is missing. And that Park Place can't be altered, that's not sandbox, that's control of the map. What TS2 and TS3 did was give the control to the player. Move this lot, bulldoze and change this vacant lot, heck put this vacant lot on the most distant corner...TS4 is like sorry, we went back to TS1 and decided we like the way we devs build worlds and no you can't move a vacant lot or a tree. Even TS1 gave players the ability to decorate some of the map.

    3. I had no problems changing Sims in TS3 to look differently than the game generated Sims. All these games generate maybe the same twelve faces on everyone. Because there is an old saying that there really are only twelve faces in the world. But when I used TS3's CAS to build Sims I wasn't affraid to change their features. It's not any easier in TS4 to me. Because a hook nose (small one) doesn't look any different in the TS4 game once you put that Sim in the game. The animations suddenly turn them into any other Sim's facial expression, and that hump in their nose can't really been seen as it fades with the facial expression into the same Sim the game generates. If any Sims look more alike I would say it is TS4 Sims no matter how differently you build them in TS4.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,114 Member
    If Sims 4 had solid gameplay then I think a lot of frustration with features wouldn’t be as bad. However IMO the gameplay is so bland and repetitive that it makes the lackluster features and missing features more annoying. They have barely touched the base features, we haven’t seen new improvements to multitasking or emotions. We’ve gotten some new stuff for CAS, and build mode but at this point I would have hoped we would have a much better, filled out game. I just don’t think this game has much potential and if it does then they haven’t done enough with that.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited May 2019
    If Sims 4 had solid gameplay then I think a lot of frustration with features wouldn’t be as bad. However IMO the gameplay is so bland and repetitive that it makes the lackluster features and missing features more annoying. They have barely touched the base features, we haven’t seen new improvements to multitasking or emotions. We’ve gotten some new stuff for CAS, and build mode but at this point I would have hoped we would have a much better, filled out game. I just don’t think this game has much potential and if it does then they haven’t done enough with that.

    What is annoy is the word potential. It was o.k. to say it in the first six months of it's release, however, I see it here every day by those who really like it, that is has so much potential. It's five years old, how many more years can TS4 players keep using that word before they notice it's as old as the hills and time to build a new iteration. ETA: I agree with you, it's a wasted potential. It's like they didn't understand what players were talking about at all.

    Example in my head today...we want a new career..ok. here, and here are the tasks, exercise, paint and use the pc....over and over and over and over again.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,114 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    If Sims 4 had solid gameplay then I think a lot of frustration with features wouldn’t be as bad. However IMO the gameplay is so bland and repetitive that it makes the lackluster features and missing features more annoying. They have barely touched the base features, we haven’t seen new improvements to multitasking or emotions. We’ve gotten some new stuff for CAS, and build mode but at this point I would have hoped we would have a much better, filled out game. I just don’t think this game has much potential and if it does then they haven’t done enough with that.

    What is annoy is the word potential. It was o.k. to say it in the first six months of it's release, however, I see it here every day by those who really like it, that is has so much potential. It's five years old, how many more years can TS4 players keep using that word before they notice it's as old as the hills and time to build a new iteration.

    Don’t get me wrong they definitely over-sold people on what the game would be able to do given the capabilities of the studio. That doesn’t mean it never had potential, or doesn’t have any at all now. There are things that the studio did good with this game, there’s also things I feel they missed their mark on - by a long shot, but that doesn’t mean the entire game has zero potential to do something cool.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited May 2019
    Cinebar wrote: »
    If Sims 4 had solid gameplay then I think a lot of frustration with features wouldn’t be as bad. However IMO the gameplay is so bland and repetitive that it makes the lackluster features and missing features more annoying. They have barely touched the base features, we haven’t seen new improvements to multitasking or emotions. We’ve gotten some new stuff for CAS, and build mode but at this point I would have hoped we would have a much better, filled out game. I just don’t think this game has much potential and if it does then they haven’t done enough with that.

    What is annoy is the word potential. It was o.k. to say it in the first six months of it's release, however, I see it here every day by those who really like it, that is has so much potential. It's five years old, how many more years can TS4 players keep using that word before they notice it's as old as the hills and time to build a new iteration.

    Don’t get me wrong they definitely over-sold people on what the game would be able to do given the capabilities of the studio. That doesn’t mean it never had potential, or doesn’t have any at all now. There are things that the studio did good with this game, there’s also things I feel they missed their mark on - by a long shot, but that doesn’t mean the entire game has zero potential to do something cool.

    But look at the last two packs. Get Famous (an EP ?) are they kidding? One career. And linear. And from what I have read very, very buggy. And then Strangerville. Nothing anyone was demanding that I have ever read, like omg, please build this next! EPs are now being built as small as GPs in this fourth year and being passed off as EPs. And any new careers Free Lance and that other self employment (in Seasons?) didn't bring anything new to game, just exercise, use the Sim pc (again) and paint and write which are already in game. Recycling over and over and over. ETA: Freelance, um, no, a Sim who wants to bake cakes all day can not sell those under a freelancer career can they, nope, you have to paint, write and use the pc over and over.

    Freelance Nanny for a day, nope, Freelance Butler for a day, nope but use Sim pc or write or paint....nothing new here to see.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,470 Member
    Adria22 wrote: »
    > @JoAnne65 said:
    > @Adria22 Plastic sims? That would be Sims 4.

    Yes I know what you mean. Sims 4 sims are also stylized but I don't mind that as much as in Sims 3. Maybe better word would be wax. Sims in 3 looked like from wax. It was horrendous. :smiley:

    I think at the end of the day each game style varies based on the individuals likeness. Both the sims 3 and 4 have different styles so I try to look at them differently. The sims 4, for me, tries to go back to the cartoony look the sims 2 had, but with an "upgraded technology" approach. I say this lightly as the sims 2 sims textures are much better in the game, but I digress. The sims 3, imo, is more mature looking. I just feel it looks more realistic. But that's the style they were going for and why the open world looks so great because it looks so realistic. Where as the sims 4, again imo, just doesn't do the realistic look for me, however I beliece the style isn't supposed to be realistic. At the end of the day the style for either one is not a bad thing. It's just varies on what style the individual player enjoys. I like them both in their own way, but if I were to have to pick I like a more realistic looking game so I'd pick 3 even over the sims 4 and 2.

    "Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
  • TechbiltTechbilt Posts: 258 Member
    Get Famous should have been Game pack imho. AT least with strangerville they admitted no one wanted it, the devs wanted to try something new and honestly I don't really enjoy the story laid out for me, I feel strangerville should have been a spin off like Castaway or the urbz or something, I don't think I want to do the strangerville story over again. I want to make my own stories with the sims. It feels so limiting. At least with Jungle adventure and outdoor adventure its open enough to make you want to come back so you can mold your stories on your own. I really hope they stay away from doing something like strangerville again.
  • nickibitswardnickibitsward Posts: 3,115 Member
    Adria22 wrote: »
    > @JoAnne65 said:
    > @Adria22 Plastic sims? That would be Sims 4.

    Yes I know what you mean. Sims 4 sims are also stylized but I don't mind that as much as in Sims 3. Maybe better word would be wax. Sims in 3 looked like from wax. It was horrendous. :smiley:

    I find the Sims 4 Sims the "smiley" ones, they all have that same turned up at one corner smile. I never seemed to be able to get rid of it in CAS. I may be good at editing the town and building but when it comes to making Sims, not so much.

  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited May 2019
    Adria22 wrote: »
    > @JoAnne65 said:
    > @Adria22 Plastic sims? That would be Sims 4.

    Yes I know what you mean. Sims 4 sims are also stylized but I don't mind that as much as in Sims 3. Maybe better word would be wax. Sims in 3 looked like from wax. It was horrendous. :smiley:

    I find the Sims 4 Sims the "smiley" ones, they all have that same turned up at one corner smile. I never seemed to be able to get rid of it in CAS. I may be good at editing the town and building but when it comes to making Sims, not so much.

    The problem with the CAS is the pulling and pushing of facial tissue doesn't matter. Once in game, someone with an overly tiny mouth can still have that wide, annoying grin (seen on all of them). The facial bone structure doesn't affect the smile and honestly it should. In life a tiny mouth isn't going to have a very wide grin, nor is everyone going to look up to their right and do that turned up, one corner smile. So, bone structure in this game doesn't affect it like it did in older games. It's one blanant animation for everyone and that is the whole problem with Sims looking the same in TS4. No matter the bone structure of the face, or muscle placement, they all look exactly alike once they move any part of their face.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    If Sims 4 had solid gameplay then I think a lot of frustration with features wouldn’t be as bad. However IMO the gameplay is so bland and repetitive that it makes the lackluster features and missing features more annoying. They have barely touched the base features, we haven’t seen new improvements to multitasking or emotions. We’ve gotten some new stuff for CAS, and build mode but at this point I would have hoped we would have a much better, filled out game. I just don’t think this game has much potential and if it does then they haven’t done enough with that.

    My issue is that The Sims 4’s core gameplay is incredibly barebones. It’s almost as if they had developers from mobile gaming background try to design PC-level gameplay. Which is basically what happened.

    The game doesn’t recognize or reward the many different mainstream playstyles such as legacies, rotational play, rags to riches, etc. Instead, it tells you to pick 3 traits for your Sim and sends you out into the world.

    The aspirations are the only system that seem to be the “main” goal of the game, and they’re repetitive, grindy, and boring. They lack replayability. Their rewards are almost meaningless. And whims are so useless they don’t even enable them by default now.

    Really, I think the game would be substantially better if we had an improved, redesigned, or overhauled aspirations system which made no two experiences alike. The Sims’ strong suit has always been its replayability and unique gameplay. It’s sad to see that thrown out the window with packs like Strangerville, which make everyone's game alike. It’s against the spirit of the game, IMHO.
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Adria22 wrote: »
    > @JoAnne65 said:
    > @Adria22 Plastic sims? That would be Sims 4.

    Yes I know what you mean. Sims 4 sims are also stylized but I don't mind that as much as in Sims 3. Maybe better word would be wax. Sims in 3 looked like from wax. It was horrendous. :smiley:

    I find the Sims 4 Sims the "smiley" ones, they all have that same turned up at one corner smile. I never seemed to be able to get rid of it in CAS. I may be good at editing the town and building but when it comes to making Sims, not so much.

    The problem with the CAS is the pulling and pushing of facial tissue doesn't matter. Once in game, someone with an overly tiny mouth can still have that wide, annoying grin (seen on all of them). The facial bone structure doesn't affect the smile and honestly it should. In life a tiny mouth isn't going to have a very wide grin, nor is everyone going to look up to their right and do that turned up, one corner smile. So, bone structure in this game doesn't affect it like it did in older games. It's one blanant animation for everyone and that is the whole problem with Sims looking the same in TS4. No matter the bone structure of the face, or muscle placement, they all look exactly alike once they move any part of their face.

    That's not a CAS issue though, it's an animation issue. The CAS itself is great, (though it could use a better variety of presets) but, like you said, in the gameplay the animations are exaggerated and the emotions are cookie-cutter to all Sims so it makes them all cycle through the exact same animations for the exact same circumstances. This, I agree, is a problem.

    @mirta000 Although it's true that I hate the Sims 3 art style, that is definitely not what the problem was/is. Sure, maybe you could make unique looking Sims, but I can say with certainty that I could not/cannot create specific Sim likenesses without CC. That is my point. I could do this in Sims 2 with Bodyshop, and I can do it in Sims 4 with the push/pull mechanics. No matter what I do in Sims 3, the Sims retain a specific facial type that prevents the ability to create likenesses.

    @JoAnne65 I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say about rotational play, except that it's not your preferred play style. That's fine. I would think, then, that you're probably not the most informed person to criticize it. But Sims 4 rotational play is easier and more improved over Sims 3, it's the Story Progression that interferes with it.

    There is a sort of half-implemented Story Progression in Sims 4 that doesn't do a whole lot except interfere with the rotational play, and I can only surmise that this was the developers way of finding common ground between rotational and single household players. Neither style feels wholly satisfactory in Sims 4 because this compromise makes both play styles end up kind of lame and shallow. This is one of Sims 4's greatest mistakes; trying too hard to be a little bit of everything instead of dedicating to a specific design. But if that SP didn't exist in Sims 4, the rotational play itself would be pretty smooth. Sims 4 is also designed in a backwards way to effect played households when we don't want, and then take away our choice to use them when we want them working in restaurants or retail. That's probably the result of being initially designed as an online multiplayer. Regardless, the specific rotational aspect and the ease of which we can switch households within a save is, in my opinion, still an improvement from Sims 3. But with the aforementioned influencing factors in addition to the statements brought up by others regarding Sims 2, I will concede that it still leaves room for overall improvement for Sims 5.

    @JoAnne65 I'm not going to address your other comments individually because you're bringing mods into it, which have nothing to do with my initial statements. The chain of conversation referred specifically to vanilla games. If we wanted to debate modded games, we'd be here all week and it would be senseless because mods aren't part of official game creation and not everyone will have them. That said, I'll state that I love mods. I adore the modding community. I've used mods and CC since Sims 2. But no game should be dependent on mods to function properly or to implement decent features. This, unfortunately, became a necessity once EA took over the franchise because they know nothing about actual game development yet they make unrealistic demands from developers.

    @anyone People keep harping on this "small world/map" debate that I did not make. Seriously guys, read what I'm actually trying to say, don't make quick assumptions just because I dared to say something positive about Sims 4, lol.

    So, to clarify again, I think that the ability to allow our Sims to travel and/or move to any world or neighborhood, without penalty, is a progressive feature that should be carried forward. Even if they return to open world maps. Even if they just do open neighborhoods. Even if they do an archipelago of a gazillion regions, I think this feature follows a natural progress of the game's development. It offers new options and choices, which are good for players, and allows us to utilize the worlds that come with EPs without having to start a whole new game or disrupt the things we've worked for in our households. Maybe next time they can fine tune it a little more so that only townies who live in that region will be seen wandering around that area, which would make more sense. They should also return to non-static, editable towns because it's baloney that we can't change the environment, and I'm saying that as someone who actually likes the backdrops because they really fill out the background. But the areas around our lots seriously need to be editable. We would also probably need a loading screen between world maps, but that's to be expected to reduce the weight on playability. And like Joanne said, although there is a mod for Sims 3 to allow changing maps, EA didn't include it and I think they should have. But they did put this in Sims 4, and now it should carry over to Sims 5.
    #Team Occult
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