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What can be done to fix sims themselves?

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  • SiliCloneSiliClone Posts: 2,452 Member
    edited March 18
    I haven't played the vanilla game for so long, I don't know anymore how the sims behave with no mods. I have a combination of mods that makes the sims more distinct from each other. First I nuked the happy moodlet, I use a mod that replaces it with fine. It makes so that my sims experience a wider variety of emotions for longer times, among other things. For how this sims works, depending on the sum of traits and mood, they have a chance to use a specific interaction.. for example, an angry good sim never uses mean interaction, he uses mischief instead, mean and erratic sims have a chance to use mean interactions regardless of mood, relationship, and conversation's mood, other sims have an higher chance to use mean interactions when angry, a loner sim has a chance to use it when tense.. For how I remember, sims in vanilla game tend to be always happy, this makes so that they all feel almost the same. For me the real problem is the emotion system, it really needs to be reworked. Traits do have a strong impact, my sims are different enough from each other, to the point that I can't use the mean trait for the life of me (since I also have the personality please mod, the conversations tend to degenerate really fast). There are some traits I would remove from cas since they are pointless (dog lover/cat lover for example, they could be reward traits).
  • izecsonizecson Posts: 1,104 Member
    edited March 18
    SiliClone wrote: »
    I haven't played the vanilla game for so long, I don't know anymore how the sims behave with no mods. I have a combination of mods that makes the sims more distinct from each other. First I nuked the happy moodlet, I use a mod that replaces it with fine. It makes so that my sims experience a wider variety of emotions for longer times, among other things. For how this sims works, depending on the sum of traits and mood, they have a chance to use a specific interaction.. for example, an angry good sim never uses mean interaction, he uses mischief instead, mean and erratic sims have a chance to use mean interactions regardless of mood, relationship, and conversation's mood, other sims have an higher chance to use mean interactions when angry, a loner sim has a chance to use it when tense.. For how I remember, sims in vanilla game tend to be always happy, this makes so that they all feel almost the same. For me the real problem is the emotion system, it really needs to be reworked. Traits do have a strong impact, my sims are different enough from each other, to the point that I can't use the mean trait for the life of me (since I also have the personality please mod, the conversations tend to degenerate really fast). There are some traits I would remove from cas since they are pointless (dog lover/cat lover for example, they could be reward traits).

    @SiliClone are these come from the same mod called Have some personality please? or do you use a combination of other mods that I'm not aware of?

  • SiliCloneSiliClone Posts: 2,452 Member
    edited March 18
    Meaningful stories, it changes how the emotions work and add some personality to the sims. For example, an outgoing sims who's feeling confident gets a sad mood when he's alone, that makes the confident mood to last less, on the contrary a loner confident sim gets a tense mood that makes the confidence last less if he's around other people. It does a lot more than this... It removes most of the pointless happy mood from drinking or eating, and makes the uncomfortable mood bost the negative moods.
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    The Sims Studio actially released two patches that gives sims more personality. The first one was in 2015 around october If I recall correctly, in which they dropped the jealousy update which overhauls how sin would react if cought on Cheating, and it even gave us the jealousy trait for those who wanted for more challenge. I remmeber at that time having a sim flirting to a girl at the nightclub while his wife was at the bar. When her wife saw my male sim, she got the angry, and went to the male sim, and slap my sim without my consent and even pushed a lot of mean interactions until theur relationship drops. I was even shocked to see that the wife got a whim to divorse to Joseph(my male sim). Now I can't get it happen again. Actually I feel that his Jealousy system got nerf because of the complaints following the update.

    here is the blogpost
    https://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-4/news/jealous

    The next one was the Reaction to Death and Fire update, still at 2015, which updated reactions o those events. For example if your ss nemesis die and sim is evil, they will actually be happy instead of sad. Duribg a fire, gloomy sims will cry instead of panic. The blogpost discuss all pf the changes here

    https://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-4/news/get-together-reaction-systems-update

    That update, is the last The Sins 4 update to feature overhauls to reactions from sims based on traits. We never got any update that is closed to this two since 2015, and its almost three years since it has done.

    Wow I didn't know this, why did they remove such a good reaction with the Jealousy & cheating!?
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • tommynocker001tommynocker001 Posts: 154 Member
    It's not just the traits that are frazzled, the entire VI that runs the game is knobbled. A lazy sim would complain about having a full time job, currently a lazy sim is the same as any other.
    A good sim would never learn mischievous skill. Does so with impunity.
    Any good person would be up all night fretting about what they'd done...
    There are many, many spanners in the pluming. ;)

    The VI pulls interactions out of a hat at random whether it's conversation or traits or skills and the more stuff they add the worse and more obvious it gets. I'm not sure this is something that will easily be fixed. Maybe that's why they asked us if we want more DLC or a fix for the game. It may require a complete rewrite of thousands of lines of code...
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    It's not just the traits that are frazzled, the entire VI that runs the game is knobbled. A lazy sim would complain about having a full time job, currently a lazy sim is the same as any other.
    A good sim would never learn mischievous skill. Does so with impunity.
    Any good person would be up all night fretting about what they'd done...
    There are many, many spanners in the pluming. ;)

    The VI pulls interactions out of a hat at random whether it's conversation or traits or skills and the more stuff they add the worse and more obvious it gets. I'm not sure this is something that will easily be fixed. Maybe that's why they asked us if we want more DLC or a fix for the game. It may require a complete rewrite of thousands of lines of code...

    When did they asked for more DLC or a fix?
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • tommynocker001tommynocker001 Posts: 154 Member
    edited March 18
    Here; https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/952343/the-sims-4-going-forward-for-the-next-year/p1

    Edit; my bad... I thought it was an official one. But still an idea.
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    Here; https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/952343/the-sims-4-going-forward-for-the-next-year/p1

    Edit; my bad... I thought it was an official one. But still an idea.

    Ok, thank's
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • FreechheitFreechheit Posts: 77 Member
    edited March 18
    Hello,

    a lot of good ideas have been mentioned before, and I wanted to add my thoughts. I love Sims 4 and I try to keep the focus on what actually can be done to improve personalities. I'm no software developer, so I have no idea what acually could be done, but I hope my suggestions are feasible.

    - reduce the impact of the happy mood, "okay" should be the prominent mood
    - add like and dislike options
    - add an attraction system
    - hot headed sims should be angry if something didn't go as planned, not just angry without any reason
    - nature loving sims should love outdoor activities, like gardening
    - the spontaneous behaviour should fit their personality, even if the Sim is unplayed and on a community lot: mean sims should be mean, bookworms should sit on a park bench and read books, ...
    - good Sims should be ashamed, if they leave a restaurant without paying ("Shame on you!")
    - ambitous Sims should tend to accomplish their daily work task autonomously
    - Sims should know who they are. It feels unnatural if they freak out because their "famous" sibling comes home from work... Or getting to know Sims they already know for a long, long time.
    - thoughts should match the personality, wishes and memories ("Your best friend just died? Maybe you want to think about him?")
    - whims should match their personality better

    [...] I just wish my sims will stop smiling like that all the time. It's so creepy and annoying!

    Now you mention it... Maybe Strangerville is just an ironic reference to the always-happy-mood? Weel, it is nicely decorated. :D


    :)
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    edited March 18
    Freechheit wrote: »
    Hello,

    a lot of good ideas have been mentioned before, and I wanted to add my thoughts. I love Sims 4 and I try to keep the focus on what actually can be done to improve personalities. I'm no software developer, so I have no idea what acually could be done, but I hope my suggestions are feasible.

    - reduce the impact of the happy mood, "okay" should be the prominent mood
    - add like and dislike options
    - add an attraction system
    - hot headed sims should be angry if something didn't go as planned, not just angry without any reason
    - nature loving sims should love outdoor activities, like gardening
    - the spontaneous behaviour should fit their personality, even if the Sim is unplayed and on a community lot: mean sims should be mean, bookworms should sit on a park bench and read books, ...
    - good Sims should be ashamed, if they leave a restaurant without paying ("Shame on you!")
    - ambitous Sims should tend to accomplish their daily work task autonomously
    - Sims should know who they are. It feels unnatural if they freak out because their "famous" sibling comes home from work... Or getting to know Sims they already know for a long, long time.
    - thoughts should match the personality, wishes and memories ("Your best friend just died? Maybe you want to think about him?")
    - whims should match their personality better

    [...] I just wish my sims will stop smiling like that all the time. It's so creepy and annoying!

    Now you mention it... Maybe Strangerville is just an ironic reference to the always-happy-mood? Weel, it is nicely decorated. :D


    :)

    Hello, thank you for posting your ideas. :) I would just add : when a sim is pregnant and decide to "announce the big new", the sim should be able to do it just once. It breaks the immersion when they have this interactions all the time, it's just like the sim doesn't remember a baby will come in the household.
    SiliClone wrote: »
    I haven't played the vanilla game for so long, I don't know anymore how the sims behave with no mods. I have a combination of mods that makes the sims more distinct from each other. First I nuked the happy moodlet, I use a mod that replaces it with fine. It makes so that my sims experience a wider variety of emotions for longer times, among other things. For how this sims works, depending on the sum of traits and mood, they have a chance to use a specific interaction.. for example, an angry good sim never uses mean interaction, he uses mischief instead, mean and erratic sims have a chance to use mean interactions regardless of mood, relationship, and conversation's mood, other sims have an higher chance to use mean interactions when angry, a loner sim has a chance to use it when tense.. For how I remember, sims in vanilla game tend to be always happy, this makes so that they all feel almost the same. For me the real problem is the emotion system, it really needs to be reworked. Traits do have a strong impact, my sims are different enough from each other, to the point that I can't use the mean trait for the life of me (since I also have the personality please mod, the conversations tend to degenerate really fast). There are some traits I would remove from cas since they are pointless (dog lover/cat lover for example, they could be reward traits).

    It sounds amazing to play with mods but unfortunately me and a lot of simmers don't really like mods. I also think we should have options in the vanilla game, mods should add extra things and not fix what the devs did wrong.
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    edited March 18
    CeCeDot wrote: »
    I feel that Sims need to be more spontaneous when they have certain traits, especially with autonomy on. Like if a nerd sim is feeling tense because they haven't played a game in a long time they should use their phone to relieve that moodlet. A romantic sim should not just get a 1+ flirty moodlet, but sometimes (when with a lover) a 2+ or 3+ flirty moodlet. Same with gloomy Sims!

    I would also love more spontaneous sims. I would love to have a flirty sim being less tense when kissing another one and do romantic interactions. A bookworm should be less tense/sad/angry/bored etc while reading. Same for every traits related to activities or interactions : a good sim should feel better & have less negative moodlets while doing friendly interactions etc.
    I agree with everything said here! I'll just post what I posted on another similar thread about what I'd like to see done with personalities (with a few changes I added after reading through all the wonderful ideas here).

    It would be awesome if instead of choosing three traits from four categories we instead got to choose one or two personality flavors from multiple categories. For example:

    Hobbies - pick one or maybe two hobbies that your sim would enjoy more than others and perhaps a hobby they can't stand as well. The hobbies they enjoy should be what they autonomously go and do when their fun is low, and these activities should always raise their fun. A disliked hobby when make them board or tense and decrease their fun. Hobby choices should include everything from running to reading, playing chess to gardening (updated with each pack as well).

    Likes/Dislikes - choose one thing your sim particularly likes or dislikes. Things like cats, dogs, outdoors, meat, etc. Interacting with a liked thing would give the sim a boost of some kind, and interacting with a dislike would do the opposite.

    Fears - select a something your sim is particularly afraid of. Could include water, fire, storms, etc. Interacting with a feared item would result in a more extreme reaction. To make it more interesting maybe include the possibility of receiving a phobia from in game play (and maybe overcoming it as well). For instance, if a sim catches on fire they are then afraid of fire, if they almost drown they now fear water.

    Social - this would influence how your sim interacts with others. Include things like self-centered, shy, outgoing, mean, etc. A mean sim would lead with mean interactions and would have a harder time gaining relationships, a shy sim would be less likely to approach other sims and would get embarrassed more easily. Should each unlock unique social interactions.

    Emotional - these would dictate how your sim reacts emotionally in different situations. Include gloomy, hotheaded, sensitive, passionate, etc. A hotheaded sim would respond with anger and yell at those around them when bad things happen while a sensitive sim might get sad or embarrassed and withdraw from the situation. A passionate sim would have more intense emotions and a stoic sim would be less reactive emotionally. These should give your sim a unique idle action so that they behave differently. Gloomy sims would sag and sigh, playful sims would do a happy dance, stoic sims would fold their arms and slightly frown.

    Lifestyle - these can be traits that affect how your sim lives their life. Include lazy, active, slob, neat, proper, rebellious etc. Should unlock unique interactions with people and objects. A proper sim can lecture sims who are mean, a neat sim can can go on a cleaning spree, a lazy sim can take a nap on the ground, etc (would love if they would just do these things autonomously too).

    Skills - this is something your sim is naturally talented in. Could include charismatic, logical, fit, funny, green thumb, handy, etc. This one skill will be more easily learned by your sim. Could also choose a skill that your sim has a hard time learning.

    Of course included in this would be the need to improve traits themselves, but I'll just point to everything said above me in regards to that.

    I realize this would require a huge overhaul that might ruin old game saves, so I doubt they would do this. But even just giving more weight to how traits affect how our sims react to the world around them would be enough. Great thread.

    Like I said before, I prefer loosing my old saves & get better personalities than keep my old saves but always have the feeling the game isn't complete. However I don't think every simmers would like this, but there's always compromises in real life, especially in The Sims lol.
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • jamiebaby212jamiebaby212 Posts: 23 Member
    @SerraNolwen
    It was if they also had compatible star signs :)

    @SimTrippy I actually liked it when they would walk past a Sim or be at a party and they were attracted! It makes it a lot more realistic I mean how many times have we been out and about and gone "oooof' to a hot person :wink:
  • ShaeShae Posts: 159 Member
    SiliClone wrote: »
    I haven't played the vanilla game for so long, I don't know anymore how the sims behave with no mods. I have a combination of mods that makes the sims more distinct from each other. First I nuked the happy moodlet, I use a mod that replaces it with fine. It makes so that my sims experience a wider variety of emotions for longer times, among other things. For how this sims works, depending on the sum of traits and mood, they have a chance to use a specific interaction.. for example, an angry good sim never uses mean interaction, he uses mischief instead, mean and erratic sims have a chance to use mean interactions regardless of mood, relationship, and conversation's mood, other sims have an higher chance to use mean interactions when angry, a loner sim has a chance to use it when tense.. For how I remember, sims in vanilla game tend to be always happy, this makes so that they all feel almost the same. For me the real problem is the emotion system, it really needs to be reworked. Traits do have a strong impact, my sims are different enough from each other, to the point that I can't use the mean trait for the life of me (since I also have the personality please mod, the conversations tend to degenerate really fast). There are some traits I would remove from cas since they are pointless (dog lover/cat lover for example, they could be reward traits).

    Same here. I have a few mods that I use to give my sims distinct personalities, so they aren't all walking around like a bunch of Stepford-sims. I have personality and mood mods from roBurky, PolarbearSim, Sacrificial, and a few others. This combination makes my game a bit more playable, although I wish the gurus would overhaul the personalities and traits system to make them similar to how they were in Sims 2. I'm hoping they will take our suggestions and implement them into Sims 5.
    Just a visually impaired gamer who enjoys taking ordinary Sims and making them extraordinary.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=WbRQP-PXDpA
  • TS1299TS1299 Posts: 967 Member
    A question, this might be complex, but would you like the idea of traits that are changable during gameplay?Kind of like Pets in The Sims 3 where depending on how yout sim handles them, traits will change.

    Currently, when Mean interactions of Mean and Evil Sims are being cancelled by the players so many times, they will stop autonoumusly being mean, despite of having the evil trait. What if Evil sims can be good and vise versa? While this might be good, I think there will be flaws as well
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 6,307 Member
    i will repeat why do you say the sims4 trait system are broken when they are not as a player i would not even usae mention system and i doubt they would add this since no players plays the sims4 the same
    http://friendlysimmers.forumotion.ca/

    http://delightfulsims.net/index.php

    Please note that forums are in maitnance mode



    Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :

    1923-2016 mamie :'(
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    A question, this might be complex, but would you like the idea of traits that are changable during gameplay?Kind of like Pets in The Sims 3 where depending on how yout sim handles them, traits will change.

    Currently, when Mean interactions of Mean and Evil Sims are being cancelled by the players so many times, they will stop autonoumusly being mean, despite of having the evil trait. What if Evil sims can be good and vise versa? While this might be good, I think there will be flaws as well

    I would say this for some traits, such as geek, bookworm but I don't think I would like it for all traits.
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 3,024 Member
    i will repeat why do you say the sims4 trait system are broken when they are not as a player i would not even usae mention system and i doubt they would add this since no players plays the sims4 the same

    People have made many posts in this thread explaining why, so if you go back and read through the posts, you'll get a better idea of what people mean by broken.

    One of the reasons is that emotions override traits every time so that traits don't even seem to matter. Because of the emotion system, all traits feel the same because emotions make Sims all behave the same way. If the traits took priority over emotions, then Sims would have more distinct personalities, like they are supposed to. Some people just want the traits to be tweaked more so that they matter, and so Sims can have more individualistic behaviors.
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 6,307 Member
    @LiELF in my case as a player i find the emotions in the sims4 more acurate than trait for 1 thing i do not let my sims fight i prefer my sims to be nice i mostly use in term of trait the neat trait family orianted trait and good cook i do not use the other traits in game since as aplayer i prefer to see my sims remain happy
    http://friendlysimmers.forumotion.ca/

    http://delightfulsims.net/index.php

    Please note that forums are in maitnance mode



    Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :

    1923-2016 mamie :'(
  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 3,024 Member
    @LiELF in my case as a player i find the emotions in the sims4 more acurate than trait for 1 thing i do not let my sims fight i prefer my sims to be nice i mostly use in term of trait the neat trait family orianted trait and good cook i do not use the other traits in game since as aplayer i prefer to see my sims remain happy

    That's great that the system works for the things you prefer. I honestly don't think your gameplay would be disrupted if the existing traits got tuned to make more of a difference, though. Your neat Sim would continue to tidy up, your family Sim would still love their family and the good cook would still make great meals and enjoy good food if they are a foodie. The emotions would still be there, it's just that the traits that you give your Sims would be a little more noticeable. The emotion system isn't going anywhere, it could never be removed or changed too drastically, I don't think, because the entire game is kind of built around it. (At least I believe it is, but I'm not a game developer.)

    People just want to be able to tell the difference between their Evil Sim and their Good Sim, for example. Right now, the way the traits and emotions are integrated, there is no real difference in behavior, and that doesn't make sense. You would never have to play an evil Sim if you don't want to, but the choice would be there for those who want to have fun with it, and see it make a difference. Even if you just wanted to play a bookworm, if their traits were more prominent, you would notice them spending more time reading than watching TV with other Sims. It's just enhancing what is already in the game so that players can actually see and appreciate a variety of Sim personalities. Otherwise, why give us all of these traits to choose from if they don't actually matter to our Sims' behavior?

    There are many other great suggestions in this thread for improving Sim behaviors and traits, but this tweaking of traits over emotions would be the least invasive to what already exists in the game. Then they could add in more optional systems like preferences, fears, likes/dislikes, etc. The more things that are optional and player controlled, the better. :)
  • SharoniaSharonia Posts: 1,128 Member
    edited March 19
    I miss the memories so much. I remember feeling so sad to see that it wasn't in the game when it released. I would love to see that come back.
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    edited March 19
    LiELF wrote: »
    @LiELF in my case as a player i find the emotions in the sims4 more acurate than trait for 1 thing i do not let my sims fight i prefer my sims to be nice i mostly use in term of trait the neat trait family orianted trait and good cook i do not use the other traits in game since as aplayer i prefer to see my sims remain happy

    That's great that the system works for the things you prefer. I honestly don't think your gameplay would be disrupted if the existing traits got tuned to make more of a difference, though. Your neat Sim would continue to tidy up, your family Sim would still love their family and the good cook would still make great meals and enjoy good food if they are a foodie. The emotions would still be there, it's just that the traits that you give your Sims would be a little more noticeable. The emotion system isn't going anywhere, it could never be removed or changed too drastically, I don't think, because the entire game is kind of built around it. (At least I believe it is, but I'm not a game developer.)

    People just want to be able to tell the difference between their Evil Sim and their Good Sim, for example. Right now, the way the traits and emotions are integrated, there is no real difference in behavior, and that doesn't make sense. You would never have to play an evil Sim if you don't want to, but the choice would be there for those who want to have fun with it, and see it make a difference. Even if you just wanted to play a bookworm, if their traits were more prominent, you would notice them spending more time reading than watching TV with other Sims. It's just enhancing what is already in the game so that players can actually see and appreciate a variety of Sim personalities. Otherwise, why give us all of these traits to choose from if they don't actually matter to our Sims' behavior?

    There are many other great suggestions in this thread for improving Sim behaviors and traits, but this tweaking of traits over emotions would be the least invasive to what already exists in the game. Then they could add in more optional systems like preferences, fears, likes/dislikes, etc. The more things that are optional and player controlled, the better. :)

    Your post is great for players who don't understand why we want better personalities. I hope it's now enough clear for you @friendlysimmers !
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • Vines12Vines12 Posts: 81 Member
    I REALLY miss memories. I loved he whole scrapbook idea from TS3. It really has a great story telling method. You could play as a new family and look at their memories to see what you’ve missed. I would think it’s possible to add that to the game somehow with an update.
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    Vines12 wrote: »
    I REALLY miss memories. I loved he whole scrapbook idea from TS3. It really has a great story telling method. You could play as a new family and look at their memories to see what you’ve missed. I would think it’s possible to add that to the game somehow with an update.

    I think this totally possible, it's just a matter of "priorities".
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,413 Member
    Now that I saw a video about the club system, it really makes me want an attraction system even more! It could be so great. Pick hair/eye/skin colors your sim likes. The body type, the traits the career, the skill etc. There's so much to do. I'm sure they can do it as well!
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • catloverplayercatloverplayer Posts: 85,410 Member
    I may be annoying with my personalities but I think it's crucial for TS4 to keep it interesting at this point.

    1. Memory
    2. More impactful traits
    3. Better whims
    4. Decrease the impact of the happy emotion
    5. Better reactions (don't hug your enemy please)

    You can continue the list with your ideas. Thank's to contribute, if we want to see a change we have to make noise, it's our responsability. 🙏

    An attraction and chemistry system is needed as well and also kissing,spooning and snuggling in bed. I miss sims spooning in bed with their partners.

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