Rather than participate in this TS3 Store vs TS4 DLC debate, my opinion is neither is better than the other.
TS3’s Store was overpriced and TS4’s packs are often poorly conceptualized, with zero thought on how many people enjoy The Sims because of its replayability. Gladly awaiting a middle ground.
@Naus. It's obvious you love the Sims 3. I had little to no performance issues with it. But for me, it just plain plum out of the 4 editions. It was ugly. The sims were ugly. It didn't come NEAR to the play of 2. It doesn't come NEAR to the look and feel of 4.
I don't know what you expect? Some of us just. didn't. like. 3. Just like you don't like 4. Give it a rest.
I get what he was saying and it is true Sims 4 will never win in comparison due to its lack of tools. Sorry it has to come down to what is better than another version but everything is coming to an head and is it going to get better? Maybe and maybe not.
Yeap. Ultimately we'll have to agree The Sims 3 is objectively a better game. Is it perfect? Far from it. Is The Sims 4 without redeeming qualities? Not at all. But when it comes down to the tools each game provides, the depth of content, the complexity of AI, etc. The Sims 3 reigns supreme.
You can't force us into ultimately agreeing that The Sims 3 is a better game. You clearly don't understand the concept of subjectivity and personal taste. Maybe things you value in a game are not the same things another person values. It all comes down to opinion and I don't understand why you seem to get so upset when people disagree with you.
I agree. I missed that comment. I will NEVER agree that the Sims 3 reigns supreme. Imo, it was the worst of the 4 iterations.
On topic, I never bought Lucky Palms because I looked at what was offered and having been burnt by too many of the offers on the sims 3 store, I decided no. Hidden Springs was a rip off. Roaring Heights was a rip off. Monte Vista was a rip off. I learned my lesson with those 3.
@LiELF Whereas I present empirical information to support my claims, all you do is user your personal preferences as supporting evidence.
"the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful."
That's factually incorrect. The Sims 3 has a consistent standard of mask size (250 pixels per square grid). What means is that a pattern (which can be 256 or 512 pixels) will be repeated 1 time per square grid. The Sims 3 doesn't really have textures. Objects have presets (pre-selected styles) but you can change them into whatever you want. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim textures are mismatched. Textures are created dynamically in-game and it's up to you to select the patterns and colors you want. It cannot be mismatched unless you mismatch textures on purpose.
"As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me."
And I have presented what prices are showing for me. They're equally as valid. Lucky Palms SE is cheaper than StrangerVille for me. The Gold Edition is only $4.5 US dollars more expensive. I already own Lucky Palms and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. It's one of the worlds I use the most, I love the way it looks, I love the amount of space I have to add community lots from other EPs, and I love the new gameplay added with the Gold Edition. The Casino has infinitely more value (in my opinion, of course) than StrangerVille's 2-hour linear storyline, 3 gameplay objects and a career (that has always been part of the base game, BTW) with 5 new interactions.
"Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20."
No. Both Sims 2 and 3 offered a bunch of HIGH QUALITY items for $20. I could start breaking down the number of FUNCTIONAL items you get in each pack, which is less subjective than saying I prefer one or the other, but I let an image speak for itself. This is what you get in BB mode in the first Stuff Pack for each game:
It's not just about the quantity of items. You're also getting more functional objects, like beds; which, if you know anything about rigging and animations, you must know how difficult is to animate bed sheets. And both games, TS2 and 3, gives you more options when it comes to customizing furniture. Beddings in TS2, for example, all share the same textures, so you don't have to struggle to find the bed sheets you want unlike TS4, which has swatches combining both bed frames and bedding.
"one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price"
You're paying what you're getting: lower price, for lower quality items. Do I have to keep bringing up the poor quality of meshes in The Sims 4? The fact that TS2's meshes have a higher polycount. A game released ten years before has higher quality meshes; let that sink in for a second.
"Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs."
Except that they include content that had previously been part of expansions but you have to pay EXTRA money now.
- Spa day and dine out include features from The Sims 2 Open for Business and Bon Voyage. Meditation was a base game skill. Owning a restaurant is better in The Sims 2 OFB. You can even work as a chef, which Dine Out doesn't give you the option to do.
- Outdoor Retreat added a single destination to vacation, whereas Bon Voyage added three for $30 USD ($40 taking inflation into account).
- Jungle Adventures added a single location with a single adventure (only thing that changes is layout) for $20. World Adventures added THREE locations with dozens of quests and almost 40 tombs as well as the option to create your own through powerful triggers.
- Parenthood adds a tiny bit amount of gameplay compared to Generations for half the price (besides, Generation also adds an insane amount of gameplay objects like spiral stairs, bunk beds, sleeping bags, playground equipment, tree houses, etc, etc, etc).
- And I won't even talk about StrangerVille. I think everyone already knows what I think about that pack.
- Vampires is probably the only Game Pack that actually EXPANDED a feature from previous games and I think it was justified as its own separate pack. So out of 7 Game Packs, only one feels like it was worth to be released as a separate pack.
Stuff Packs, as I said many times, they mostly include gameplay items that would've been included in EPs in the past like buffet tables (base game), bowling alleys (Nightlife, UL), butlers (Superstar, Apartment Life, Late Night), slip 'n' slide (Generations), laundry (Ambitions), etc. And they barely add any new gameplay to justify these features being their own pack.
"You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?"
Except I didn't have to pick and choose in the past. Buying EPs would give me all the gameplay Stuff Packs and Game Packs have now. The only exceptions, as I said, are Vampires and Kids Room. The first actually expands a feature enough to be worth being its own pack; the second one has new gameplay (never featured in the series) and it actually has a good amount of replayability.
"You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered."
I prefer the way Expansion Packs actually expanded the game in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3. EPs feel like they barely add anything new now. Why? Because a lot of content is being sold as separate packs.
@Pegasys
"the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story."
Oh, yeah... right. That's the excuse they're using now. Not even James Turner, aka The SimSupply, believed that excuse if you watch his reaction to the empty houses with SimGuruRomeo. I guess next time a game-breaking bug occurs they can use the old meme: "it's not a bug; it's a feature."
"As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag."
The same way they got rid of open world, create-a-style or a color wheel, story progression, complex simology like in 2, limit the amount of lots, etc. all to cut down lag???? What kind of game needs to do so many sacrifices to cut down? We're talking about a FACT and it's that objects in TS2 and 3, games released 10 and 5 years before TS4, have a higher polycount and their 2014 sequel.
So...this conversation is going in circles and I'm just getting bored now at your desperation to "win". But a few final things...
First... polycounts. Who cares? Do you really think most players give a hoot how many polys, faces or pixels make up an object? Most people look at the game and decide if it's aesthetically pleasing or not. Do they prefer style A or style B? That's it. Subjective. Simmers can look at a low poly style and like it better than the high poly one and it's perfectly valid. So that's a useless argument.
Second... This weak argument about breaking up expansion packs and selling them "piecemeal". This is a closed perspective resulting from game bias. In order to determine that an EP has been "broken up", we have to have concrete evidence that there is a specific way to create and sell that pack to begin with. Which would mean that there is only one way to develop a pack theme, which, of course is completely false. Say, for example, you are a developer who wants to do a theme in the city. You then have to decide what you want the central basis of that theme to be so that the things you put in it are cohesive. Do you want it to focus on swinging single life and dating? Do you want it to be day to day life and personal encounters? Do you want it to be what night life in the city is like? And what kind of city are you basing it from? Etc, etc. You see, players have been exposed to previous packs and sometimes feel that those packs have to be created the exact same way, with the exact same themes and items included. This is what makes people upset when the next iteration releases something and it doesn't match item for item. But if you limit your thinking to only what has existed before, you are always going to be dissatisfied because you are really only looking for an exact replica of the past. But that's not how it works, and frankly, that would be boring. Themes are updated to match the present day, and new things are tried to keep things fresh and different and interesting. What's the point of making the same exact thing over again the exact same way you did it before? It makes the series stale and predictable. Now, with all of that said, I do think that many of the earlier EPs of Sims 4 fell very flat and should have had more to them. But what they needed were not necessarily the things that were in Stuff Packs. The Stuff Packs should have been in addition to complete and satisfying EPs, even if those EPS were done differently than previous games, which would be acceptable. Also, things like Vampires would never have been expanded on the way they were if they were part of an EP. They would have been, like in the past, just another same-'ol life state with barely a new twist to matter.
So, because I'm probably going to start phasing out of this discussion since you are unable to concede that your opinion is just that - an opinion, and using all the "facts" and skewed perspective you can dream up isn't going to change that ultimate truth - I'm going to wrap this post up with a final word.
No matter how many paragraphs or spread sheets or charts or poly counts or presentations you make to try to prove that one game is "objectively" better than another, you will always fail. Because there is no such thing. That is the real fallacy. I can trash talk Sims 3 until the cows come home and nitpick and make an example with gathered evidence for every single bad choice that was made, but it won't make someone who loves it see my way. The same principle applies here. I don't even know why you are on such a desperate crusade to prove your opinion to be "the right one", or why you have such a difficult time accepting that players just prefer different things. In the end, all feedback matters to the company. So you can present a post with 17 paragraphs of why you believe StrangerVille is so "inferior", and the next Simmer could write one sentence saying they enjoyed the story and the town and the items that came with it, and you know what? Both posts are equally valid. Your use of manipulative debate tactics to try to out-argue people into a corner to get them to back down just to prove yourself "right" are transparent, a little bullyish, and totally unnecessary. It might benefit you to learn how to agree to disagree and accept that there are people who just like things that you don't. It's just a game. If people are entertained by it, that's all the argument they need.
@LiELF Whereas I present empirical information to support my claims, all you do is user your personal preferences as supporting evidence.
"the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful."
That's factually incorrect. The Sims 3 has a consistent standard of mask size (250 pixels per square grid). What means is that a pattern (which can be 256 or 512 pixels) will be repeated 1 time per square grid. The Sims 3 doesn't really have textures. Objects have presets (pre-selected styles) but you can change them into whatever you want. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim textures are mismatched. Textures are created dynamically in-game and it's up to you to select the patterns and colors you want. It cannot be mismatched unless you mismatch textures on purpose.
"As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me."
And I have presented what prices are showing for me. They're equally as valid. Lucky Palms SE is cheaper than StrangerVille for me. The Gold Edition is only $4.5 US dollars more expensive. I already own Lucky Palms and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. It's one of the worlds I use the most, I love the way it looks, I love the amount of space I have to add community lots from other EPs, and I love the new gameplay added with the Gold Edition. The Casino has infinitely more value (in my opinion, of course) than StrangerVille's 2-hour linear storyline, 3 gameplay objects and a career (that has always been part of the base game, BTW) with 5 new interactions.
"Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20."
No. Both Sims 2 and 3 offered a bunch of HIGH QUALITY items for $20. I could start breaking down the number of FUNCTIONAL items you get in each pack, which is less subjective than saying I prefer one or the other, but I let an image speak for itself. This is what you get in BB mode in the first Stuff Pack for each game:
It's not just about the quantity of items. You're also getting more functional objects, like beds; which, if you know anything about rigging and animations, you must know how difficult is to animate bed sheets. And both games, TS2 and 3, gives you more options when it comes to customizing furniture. Beddings in TS2, for example, all share the same textures, so you don't have to struggle to find the bed sheets you want unlike TS4, which has swatches combining both bed frames and bedding.
"one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price"
You're paying what you're getting: lower price, for lower quality items. Do I have to keep bringing up the poor quality of meshes in The Sims 4? The fact that TS2's meshes have a higher polycount. A game released ten years before has higher quality meshes; let that sink in for a second.
"Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs."
Except that they include content that had previously been part of expansions but you have to pay EXTRA money now.
- Spa day and dine out include features from The Sims 2 Open for Business and Bon Voyage. Meditation was a base game skill. Owning a restaurant is better in The Sims 2 OFB. You can even work as a chef, which Dine Out doesn't give you the option to do.
- Outdoor Retreat added a single destination to vacation, whereas Bon Voyage added three for $30 USD ($40 taking inflation into account).
- Jungle Adventures added a single location with a single adventure (only thing that changes is layout) for $20. World Adventures added THREE locations with dozens of quests and almost 40 tombs as well as the option to create your own through powerful triggers.
- Parenthood adds a tiny bit amount of gameplay compared to Generations for half the price (besides, Generation also adds an insane amount of gameplay objects like spiral stairs, bunk beds, sleeping bags, playground equipment, tree houses, etc, etc, etc).
- And I won't even talk about StrangerVille. I think everyone already knows what I think about that pack.
- Vampires is probably the only Game Pack that actually EXPANDED a feature from previous games and I think it was justified as its own separate pack. So out of 7 Game Packs, only one feels like it was worth to be released as a separate pack.
Stuff Packs, as I said many times, they mostly include gameplay items that would've been included in EPs in the past like buffet tables (base game), bowling alleys (Nightlife, UL), butlers (Superstar, Apartment Life, Late Night), slip 'n' slide (Generations), laundry (Ambitions), etc. And they barely add any new gameplay to justify these features being their own pack.
"You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?"
Except I didn't have to pick and choose in the past. Buying EPs would give me all the gameplay Stuff Packs and Game Packs have now. The only exceptions, as I said, are Vampires and Kids Room. The first actually expands a feature enough to be worth being its own pack; the second one has new gameplay (never featured in the series) and it actually has a good amount of replayability.
"You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered."
I prefer the way Expansion Packs actually expanded the game in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3. EPs feel like they barely add anything new now. Why? Because a lot of content is being sold as separate packs.
@Pegasys
"the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story."
Oh, yeah... right. That's the excuse they're using now. Not even James Turner, aka The SimSupply, believed that excuse if you watch his reaction to the empty houses with SimGuruRomeo. I guess next time a game-breaking bug occurs they can use the old meme: "it's not a bug; it's a feature."
"As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag."
The same way they got rid of open world, create-a-style or a color wheel, story progression, complex simology like in 2, limit the amount of lots, etc. all to cut down lag???? What kind of game needs to do so many sacrifices to cut down? We're talking about a FACT and it's that objects in TS2 and 3, games released 10 and 5 years before TS4, have a higher polycount and their 2014 sequel.
So...this conversation is going in circles and I'm just getting bored now at your desperation to "win". But a few final things...
First... polycounts. Who cares? Do you really think most players give a hoot how many polys, faces or pixels make up an object? Most people look at the game and decide if it's aesthetically pleasing or not. Do they prefer style A or style B? That's it. Subjective. Simmers can look at a low poly style and like it better than the high poly one and it's perfectly valid. So that's a useless argument.
Second... This weak argument about breaking up expansion packs and selling them "piecemeal". This is a closed perspective resulting from game bias. In order to determine that an EP has been "broken up", we have to have concrete evidence that there is a specific way to create and sell that pack to begin with. Which would mean that there is only one way to develop a pack theme, which, of course is completely false. Say, for example, you are a developer who wants to do a theme in the city. You then have to decide what you want the central basis of that theme to be so that the things you put in it are cohesive. Do you want it to focus on swinging single life and dating? Do you want it to be day to day life and personal encounters? Do you want it to be what night life in the city is like? And what kind of city are you basing it from? Etc, etc. You see, players have been exposed to previous packs and sometimes feel that those packs have to be created the exact same way, with the exact same themes and items included. This is what makes people upset when the next iteration releases something and it doesn't match item for item. But if you limit your thinking to only what has existed before, you are always going to be dissatisfied because you are really only looking for an exact replica of the past. But that's not how it works, and frankly, that would be boring. Themes are updated to match the present day, and new things are tried to keep things fresh and different and interesting. What's the point of making the same exact thing over again the exact same way you did it before? It makes the series stale and predictable. Now, with all of that said, I do think that many of the earlier EPs of Sims 4 fell very flat and should have had more to them. But what they needed were not necessarily the things that were in Stuff Packs. The Stuff Packs should have been in addition to complete and satisfying EPs, even if those EPS were done differently than previous games, which would be acceptable. Also, things like Vampires would never have been expanded on the way they were if they were part of an EP. They would have been, like in the past, just another same-'ol life state with barely a new twist to matter.
So, because I'm probably going to start phasing out of this discussion since you are unable to concede that your opinion is just that - an opinion, and using all the "facts" and skewed perspective you can dream up isn't going to change that ultimate truth - I'm going to wrap this post up with a final word.
No matter how many paragraphs or spread sheets or charts or poly counts or presentations you make to try to prove that one game is "objectively" better than another, you will always fail. Because there is no such thing. That is the real fallacy. I can trash talk Sims 3 until the cows come home and nitpick and make an example with gathered evidence for every single bad choice that was made, but it won't make someone who loves it see my way. The same principle applies here. I don't even know why you are on such a desperate crusade to prove your opinion to be "the right one", or why you have such a difficult time accepting that players just prefer different things. In the end, all feedback matters to the company. So you can present a post with 17 paragraphs of why you believe StrangerVille is so "inferior", and the next Simmer could write one sentence saying they enjoyed the story and the town and the items that came with it, and you know what? Both posts are equally valid. Your use of manipulative debate tactics to try to out-argue people into a corner to get them to back down just to prove yourself "right" are transparent, a little bullyish, and totally unnecessary. It might benefit you to learn how to agree to disagree and accept that there are people who just like things that you don't. It's just a game. If people are entertained by it, that's all the argument they need.
@LiELF So you're upset because I back up my claims with evidence and facts and you don't, right? The whole entirety of your comments are: "this is a matter of opinion and personal taste." While you're entitled to your opinion, opinions aren't really helpful when comparing and contrasting products. I learned that the first time I wrote an argumentative essay. Opinions are actually discouraged, as you can't disprove an opinion. Facts are facts. And facts don't care about your feelings.
- My saying that objects in TS2 and 3 have a higher polycount and texture frequency isn't an opinion; it's a fact.
- My saying that 10/14 gameplay objects featured in TS4 Stuff Packs were included in expansions in past games isn't an opinion; it's a fact.
- My saying that Lucky Palms SE and Gold Edition cost at the most $17 USD and $24 USD respectively in my region isn't an opinion, it's a fact.
You just don't care about facts. It's all about what you think and what you feel. That's perfectly fine, but I find your rants hilarious when all I'm trying to do is present facts and data to support my arguments.
First... polycounts. Who cares?
Imagine thinking that higher quality meshes don't matter. Might as well keep playing PlayStation 1 games if that's the case. Why did people even try to upgrade Lara Croft's model from 200 faces to 33K if graphics don't matter?
Most people look at the game and decide if it's aesthetically pleasing or not.
Those are two different things. Graphics and aesthetics aren't the same. My argument was about graphical quality, an objective value, yours is about aesthetics, a 100% subjective one. Some people prefer TS1-3 pseudo-realistic art style, others prefer TS4 highly stylized one. Whether something looks pleasing is assessed through a subjective lens (beauty is in the eye of the beholder). The graphics aren't subjective. A vertex, a pixel, a face, keyframes per animations, are quantifiable data. When analyzing the amount of work put into a pack is important to take these things into account. It doesn't take the same amount of work for a 3D artist to model an object with 100 faces than an object with 1K faces.
Simmers can look at a low poly style and like it better than the high poly one and it's perfectly valid. So that's a useless argument.
It's useless because you say so? What? The problem is that you're twisting my argument (straw manning as always). I never say you have to like this because it has higher quality meshes. We're comparing Stuff Packs and pointing out the fact that TS4 SPs feature lower polycounts than objects in TS3 packs is important for this argument.
This weak argument about breaking up expansion packs and selling them "piecemeal."
Again all these qualifiers are laughable when you don't even prove WHY they're weak. The concrete evidence you're looking for is PRECEDENT. Precedent is definied as: "an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances." That's exactly what I'm using when making the assertion that EPs in TS4 are broken up in smaller pieces to be sold "piecemeal" as you put it. The precedent set by all previous games. Something else you're ignoring is that 10 out of 14 packs include gameplay objects that had previously been included in EPs. That's a pattern.
I do agree about vampires and I wish more packs added enough gameplay value to justify the extra price you have to pay for them. Regrettably, Vampires is the exception, not the rule.
So, because I'm probably going to start phasing out of this discussion since you are unable to concede that your opinion is just that - an opinion, and using all the "facts" and skewed perspective you can dream up isn't going to change that ultimate truth
I love how you want me to concede. I'm not going to concede because you want me to. By the way, facts are facts, they aren't "facts" with quotation marks. Skewed perspective because you say so? Ultimate truth? What are you even on about?
or why you have such a difficult time accepting that players just prefer different things
It's not what I'm trying to do and you know it. Stop straw manning my arguments to make them easy to attack. I'm perfectly okay accepting people prefer different things. As a logical person I try to understand WHY. It inevitably leads me to analyze things from an objective point of view, or as objective as possible can. I'm not perfect, but I do make an effort and I don't leave it as "it's a matter of opinion." Liking or preferring one thing over another IS A MATTER OF OPINION. One game/pack being better than another can be assessed with a more objective perspective, and that's why I'm trying to do. The difference between the former and the latter is that your preference or taste will always be subjective because you're a person. Video games are OBJECTS and therefore can be analyzed by facts.
Both posts are equally valid.
Both may be valid, but doesn't mean that one isn't better than the other. If what you're saying were true, academia wouldn't exist. What's the point of an evolutionary biologist publishing a carefully researched paper if their dissertation has the same value than a random person on the internet writing "evolution doesn't exist."
Your use of manipulative debate tactics
Those scary debate tactics.
If people are entertained by it, that's all the argument they need.
Done. Thread should be closed. Heck, Forum should be closed. What's the point of a DISCUSSION forum if we can't discuss things related to the game? Imagine every post being: "I'm entertained by this game/pack" - "I'm not entertained by this game/pack." This is a discussion forum, the point IS to discuss.
You're NOT discussing "the game" though. You're discussing why you think 3 is better. You almost feel like some sort of recruiter or something. lol.
As @LiELF said, just accept the fact that not everyone loves the sims 3 like you do. And accept the fact that there are a LOT of simmers enjoying this pack, and Sims 4.
You're NOT discussing "the game" though. You're discussing why you think 3 is better. You almost feel like some sort of recruiter or something. lol.
As @LiELF said, just accept the fact that not everyone loves the sims 3 like you do. And accept the fact that there are a LOT of simmers enjoying this pack, and Sims 4.
A lot indeed.
I value Strangerville more for many reasons. As a rotational player, I love and need the freedom for my sims to live/visit the different worlds, the different climates without losing friends and family, mod free that is. That freedom wasn't technically there if my sims lived in Lucky Palms or any other sims 3 world. For me, it was weird for my huge family of vampires to live in Lucky Palms. In my mind it was too hot, and too sunny for them. At the end of the day it comes down to people's play style, certain freedoms, you name it. There is no right or wrong comparison between the two worlds. Only what you like.
Me on:
Twitch jovi_jov
Twitter BarbieSimmy
Origin SimsBarbie
You don't seem to be grasping Naus, that this isn't an "evidence and facts" debate. This is entirely down to individual perspective. This is why your graphs and math mean absolutely nothing, to the players.
You could create a flow chart on why pop punk is "objectively" better than hardcore punk, and it would also mean nothing. Because music, art, movies and games are a completely unique, and personal experience.
This is why I have so many issues with certain hardcore sims 3 stans, their narrative begins with their experience as the default, as they try to contort the pieces to fit their conclusion, all while disingenuously calling themselves "objective".
"academia wouldn't exist. What's the point of an evolutionary biologist publishing a carefully researched paper if their dissertation has the same value than a random person on the internet writing "evolution doesn't exist." You conflating biology and video games is intellectually bankrupt, and you know it. Biology is OBSERVABLE, and repeatable, researchers need peer review before any of their propositions are published; the arts (video games) are (pertaining to like/dislike) a preference that can not be quantified with the same measurements- video games/movies/art style have too many varying tastes. Academia will still exist, whether or not we agree with your bloviating, spreadsheets.
You have way too much confirmation bias, to be objective and regurgitating the word doesn't make you more credible; there is a big difference between "facts(tm)" and facts; facts speak for themselves, too many people throw around the word "fact(tm)" to support their personal arguments; all while flamebating, then to try to pass it off as "intellectual curiosity".
@LiELF Whereas I present empirical information to support my claims, all you do is user your personal preferences as supporting evidence.
"the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful."
That's factually incorrect. The Sims 3 has a consistent standard of mask size (250 pixels per square grid). What means is that a pattern (which can be 256 or 512 pixels) will be repeated 1 time per square grid. The Sims 3 doesn't really have textures. Objects have presets (pre-selected styles) but you can change them into whatever you want. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim textures are mismatched. Textures are created dynamically in-game and it's up to you to select the patterns and colors you want. It cannot be mismatched unless you mismatch textures on purpose.
"As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me."
And I have presented what prices are showing for me. They're equally as valid. Lucky Palms SE is cheaper than StrangerVille for me. The Gold Edition is only $4.5 US dollars more expensive. I already own Lucky Palms and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. It's one of the worlds I use the most, I love the way it looks, I love the amount of space I have to add community lots from other EPs, and I love the new gameplay added with the Gold Edition. The Casino has infinitely more value (in my opinion, of course) than StrangerVille's 2-hour linear storyline, 3 gameplay objects and a career (that has always been part of the base game, BTW) with 5 new interactions.
"Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20."
No. Both Sims 2 and 3 offered a bunch of HIGH QUALITY items for $20. I could start breaking down the number of FUNCTIONAL items you get in each pack, which is less subjective than saying I prefer one or the other, but I let an image speak for itself. This is what you get in BB mode in the first Stuff Pack for each game:
It's not just about the quantity of items. You're also getting more functional objects, like beds; which, if you know anything about rigging and animations, you must know how difficult is to animate bed sheets. And both games, TS2 and 3, gives you more options when it comes to customizing furniture. Beddings in TS2, for example, all share the same textures, so you don't have to struggle to find the bed sheets you want unlike TS4, which has swatches combining both bed frames and bedding.
"one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price"
You're paying what you're getting: lower price, for lower quality items. Do I have to keep bringing up the poor quality of meshes in The Sims 4? The fact that TS2's meshes have a higher polycount. A game released ten years before has higher quality meshes; let that sink in for a second.
"Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs."
Except that they include content that had previously been part of expansions but you have to pay EXTRA money now.
- Spa day and dine out include features from The Sims 2 Open for Business and Bon Voyage. Meditation was a base game skill. Owning a restaurant is better in The Sims 2 OFB. You can even work as a chef, which Dine Out doesn't give you the option to do.
- Outdoor Retreat added a single destination to vacation, whereas Bon Voyage added three for $30 USD ($40 taking inflation into account).
- Jungle Adventures added a single location with a single adventure (only thing that changes is layout) for $20. World Adventures added THREE locations with dozens of quests and almost 40 tombs as well as the option to create your own through powerful triggers.
- Parenthood adds a tiny bit amount of gameplay compared to Generations for half the price (besides, Generation also adds an insane amount of gameplay objects like spiral stairs, bunk beds, sleeping bags, playground equipment, tree houses, etc, etc, etc).
- And I won't even talk about StrangerVille. I think everyone already knows what I think about that pack.
- Vampires is probably the only Game Pack that actually EXPANDED a feature from previous games and I think it was justified as its own separate pack. So out of 7 Game Packs, only one feels like it was worth to be released as a separate pack.
Stuff Packs, as I said many times, they mostly include gameplay items that would've been included in EPs in the past like buffet tables (base game), bowling alleys (Nightlife, UL), butlers (Superstar, Apartment Life, Late Night), slip 'n' slide (Generations), laundry (Ambitions), etc. And they barely add any new gameplay to justify these features being their own pack.
"You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?"
Except I didn't have to pick and choose in the past. Buying EPs would give me all the gameplay Stuff Packs and Game Packs have now. The only exceptions, as I said, are Vampires and Kids Room. The first actually expands a feature enough to be worth being its own pack; the second one has new gameplay (never featured in the series) and it actually has a good amount of replayability.
"You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered."
I prefer the way Expansion Packs actually expanded the game in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3. EPs feel like they barely add anything new now. Why? Because a lot of content is being sold as separate packs.
@Pegasys
"the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story."
Oh, yeah... right. That's the excuse they're using now. Not even James Turner, aka The SimSupply, believed that excuse if you watch his reaction to the empty houses with SimGuruRomeo. I guess next time a game-breaking bug occurs they can use the old meme: "it's not a bug; it's a feature."
"As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag."
The same way they got rid of open world, create-a-style or a color wheel, story progression, complex simology like in 2, limit the amount of lots, etc. all to cut down lag???? What kind of game needs to do so many sacrifices to cut down? We're talking about a FACT and it's that objects in TS2 and 3, games released 10 and 5 years before TS4, have a higher polycount and their 2014 sequel.
So...this conversation is going in circles and I'm just getting bored now at your desperation to "win". But a few final things...
First... polycounts. Who cares? Do you really think most players give a hoot how many polys, faces or pixels make up an object? Most people look at the game and decide if it's aesthetically pleasing or not. Do they prefer style A or style B? That's it. Subjective. Simmers can look at a low poly style and like it better than the high poly one and it's perfectly valid. So that's a useless argument.
Second... This weak argument about breaking up expansion packs and selling them "piecemeal". This is a closed perspective resulting from game bias. In order to determine that an EP has been "broken up", we have to have concrete evidence that there is a specific way to create and sell that pack to begin with. Which would mean that there is only one way to develop a pack theme, which, of course is completely false. Say, for example, you are a developer who wants to do a theme in the city. You then have to decide what you want the central basis of that theme to be so that the things you put in it are cohesive. Do you want it to focus on swinging single life and dating? Do you want it to be day to day life and personal encounters? Do you want it to be what night life in the city is like? And what kind of city are you basing it from? Etc, etc. You see, players have been exposed to previous packs and sometimes feel that those packs have to be created the exact same way, with the exact same themes and items included. This is what makes people upset when the next iteration releases something and it doesn't match item for item. But if you limit your thinking to only what has existed before, you are always going to be dissatisfied because you are really only looking for an exact replica of the past. But that's not how it works, and frankly, that would be boring. Themes are updated to match the present day, and new things are tried to keep things fresh and different and interesting. What's the point of making the same exact thing over again the exact same way you did it before? It makes the series stale and predictable. Now, with all of that said, I do think that many of the earlier EPs of Sims 4 fell very flat and should have had more to them. But what they needed were not necessarily the things that were in Stuff Packs. The Stuff Packs should have been in addition to complete and satisfying EPs, even if those EPS were done differently than previous games, which would be acceptable. Also, things like Vampires would never have been expanded on the way they were if they were part of an EP. They would have been, like in the past, just another same-'ol life state with barely a new twist to matter.
So, because I'm probably going to start phasing out of this discussion since you are unable to concede that your opinion is just that - an opinion, and using all the "facts" and skewed perspective you can dream up isn't going to change that ultimate truth - I'm going to wrap this post up with a final word.
No matter how many paragraphs or spread sheets or charts or poly counts or presentations you make to try to prove that one game is "objectively" better than another, you will always fail. Because there is no such thing. That is the real fallacy. I can trash talk Sims 3 until the cows come home and nitpick and make an example with gathered evidence for every single bad choice that was made, but it won't make someone who loves it see my way. The same principle applies here. I don't even know why you are on such a desperate crusade to prove your opinion to be "the right one", or why you have such a difficult time accepting that players just prefer different things. In the end, all feedback matters to the company. So you can present a post with 17 paragraphs of why you believe StrangerVille is so "inferior", and the next Simmer could write one sentence saying they enjoyed the story and the town and the items that came with it, and you know what? Both posts are equally valid. Your use of manipulative debate tactics to try to out-argue people into a corner to get them to back down just to prove yourself "right" are transparent, a little bullyish, and totally unnecessary. It might benefit you to learn how to agree to disagree and accept that there are people who just like things that you don't. It's just a game. If people are entertained by it, that's all the argument they need.
@Eloka Every branch of studies has their own ontological, epistemological, axiological, and methodological assumptions. Exact and natural sciences aren't the only areas of studies which can be researched, intepreted and analyzed. Social sciences, video games, art, etc. can be studied, as long as your research adheres to the aforementioned philosophical assumptions and peer-reviewed criteria.
The fact you're claiming that only exact and natural sciences can be supported by evidence and facts tells me you don't know about research methodology. Furthermore, your claiming that only something observable and "repeatable" (what you probably mean is testifiable, as even within exact sciences many theories aren't "repeatable") can be researched suggests that the extend of your knowledge goes as far as the late 19th century, when Empiricism was the only accepted scientific method.
So you are saying that personal taste, can be quantified; which is the primary issue here. *When the goal posts aren't being moved that is*. Social sciences study cultures, clusters, hierarchies, social norms etc... They aren't in the department of trying to quantify TASTE.
https://www.allaboutscience.org/scientific-method.htm We aren't having a sociological discussion, or analysing the sims series here, you are having a tantrum (because people like something you don't) and you're trying to pass it off as "facts, logic, objective". People have explained why they prefer the sims 4 to you, you not only ignore them you create elaborate reasons as to why they shouldn't think the way they do.
Who said art can not be studied? The point was TASTE IN ART, can't be measured; did you skip the: "pertaining to like/dislike"? You're simply being obtuse.
I'm sorry but coming from a "professor" who "wasn't aware of regional changes", who doesn't understand condensation (to keep posts simple, for everyone to understand); all your blathering about your degree doesn't mean much - even George W Bush has a BA.
The point is to compare the value and quality of each world.
More images of Lucky Palm Lots:
Versus Lots in StrangerVille:
PS: If someone has more pictures of StrangerVille lots, I'll be happy to post them. I just couldn't find better pictures. I'm not trying to be unfair, I think the facts speak for themselves.
What you get with Lucky Palms: Lucky Palms (unless you buy the Gold edition which includes the casino and content), and I think some new B/B and CAS.
What you get with StrangerVille:
StrangerVille
New career
New aspiration
11 new lots (the same number as an expansion like GF) And unlike other GPs like JA or OR, your Sims can actually live in StrangerVille. You don't even have to solve the mystery -- you can leave it with the odd residents and do perfectly well. If your Sims don't eat the strange fruit they won't be infected.
Price: $20 US, similar price as Lucky Palms Gold.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Hmmm... for me, it hasn't made any difference how many Lots are in each world or how empty or full they are.
I bought Lucky Palms and regretted it afterwards. Never liked the world and therefore hardly ever played in it.
Strangerville is appealing to me. I enjoy playing in it and haven't stopped playing in it since its release.
I liked Lucky Palms (though it felt a bit fake with the "houseboats" on the river once we got realy houseboats with IP). The only world I regretted purchasing was Lunar Lakes and I got that on a sale anyway towards the end of the run. I also enjoy Strangerville -- I'm planning once I solve the mystery to move the premades (except for the dude with the crashed plane) to other worlds then use it as a place to house the premades that Maxis has been uploading especially now that we've got the Curious brothers. I'll need to remodel a few of the homes up on the bluff first, and maybe give one of the brothers the Paranoid trait just for fun.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
"First lied about the price, now this." Are you telling me the gold version wasn't $40 AUD, when it came out? Or are you completely unaware of conversion rates?
I have no idea how much was the cost in AUD. But this is what I wrote about pricing:
The conversion 1 SimPoint = 0.01 US dollar is factually wrong, because you can't buy SimPoints individually; only in bundles.
The smallest bundle is 1000 SimPoints for US$ 6.99. That means that 1 SimPoint = 0.00699 US dollars. Lucky Palms costs US$ 17.12 Standard Edition or US$24 the Gold Edition. But it costs less the more SimPoints you buy. The 24360 bundle for US$ 106.99 makes it so each SimPoints costs US$ 0.0043. With this bundle Lucky Palm costs $10 the Standard Edition and $14 the Gold Edition.
Please remember this world didn't cost MONEY. You could only pay it with SimPoints. You could get SimPoints mainly by buying SimPoints bundles. Bundles NEVER had a conversion rate of 1 SimPoint = 0.01, though I can't be 100% certain. This is from February 2012, months before Lucky Palms was released. You could buy 4400 SimPoints for US$40, so 1 SimPoint = US$0.009. Lucky Palms SE: 2450 SimPoints = US$ 22.2. But it's difficult to pinpoint the exact value because the bigger the bundle, the cheaper it gets. The more time passes, the more SimPoints you can get for an X amount of money.
Least laggy doesn't mean zero issues, Roaring Heights has no world fix either; does that mean it's issue free? You seem to be getting upset at people who don't have answers you like, then accuse them of duplicity.
Roaring Heights was released after ellacharmed stopped releasing world fixes. Lucky Palms was released and she decided no to do a world fix because it wasn't AS necesary. Your statement was that it had terrible routing, only second to Isla Paradiso. That's factually wrong. I played many times in Lucky Palms with Overwatch I never got many stuck Sims. In fact I don't remember if I ever had a SINGLE stuck Sim that had to be reset in that world.
According to Ellas Word Press she never bought Roaring Heights - which is why she never did anything to it. All her fixed worlds etc are on her Word Press Pages
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Alright everyone, this has completely run it's course. It's become an entirely circular argument and hasn't remained on topic in pages. I'm closing this down. The discussion was good and I believe there were some valuable points from both sides in here. But to avoid unnecessary arguments and personal attacks it's best that it's closed.
Comments
TS3’s Store was overpriced and TS4’s packs are often poorly conceptualized, with zero thought on how many people enjoy The Sims because of its replayability. Gladly awaiting a middle ground.
THIS!
I agree. I missed that comment. I will NEVER agree that the Sims 3 reigns supreme. Imo, it was the worst of the 4 iterations.
On topic, I never bought Lucky Palms because I looked at what was offered and having been burnt by too many of the offers on the sims 3 store, I decided no. Hidden Springs was a rip off. Roaring Heights was a rip off. Monte Vista was a rip off. I learned my lesson with those 3.
So...this conversation is going in circles and I'm just getting bored now at your desperation to "win". But a few final things...
First... polycounts. Who cares? Do you really think most players give a hoot how many polys, faces or pixels make up an object? Most people look at the game and decide if it's aesthetically pleasing or not. Do they prefer style A or style B? That's it. Subjective. Simmers can look at a low poly style and like it better than the high poly one and it's perfectly valid. So that's a useless argument.
Second... This weak argument about breaking up expansion packs and selling them "piecemeal". This is a closed perspective resulting from game bias. In order to determine that an EP has been "broken up", we have to have concrete evidence that there is a specific way to create and sell that pack to begin with. Which would mean that there is only one way to develop a pack theme, which, of course is completely false. Say, for example, you are a developer who wants to do a theme in the city. You then have to decide what you want the central basis of that theme to be so that the things you put in it are cohesive. Do you want it to focus on swinging single life and dating? Do you want it to be day to day life and personal encounters? Do you want it to be what night life in the city is like? And what kind of city are you basing it from? Etc, etc. You see, players have been exposed to previous packs and sometimes feel that those packs have to be created the exact same way, with the exact same themes and items included. This is what makes people upset when the next iteration releases something and it doesn't match item for item. But if you limit your thinking to only what has existed before, you are always going to be dissatisfied because you are really only looking for an exact replica of the past. But that's not how it works, and frankly, that would be boring. Themes are updated to match the present day, and new things are tried to keep things fresh and different and interesting. What's the point of making the same exact thing over again the exact same way you did it before? It makes the series stale and predictable. Now, with all of that said, I do think that many of the earlier EPs of Sims 4 fell very flat and should have had more to them. But what they needed were not necessarily the things that were in Stuff Packs. The Stuff Packs should have been in addition to complete and satisfying EPs, even if those EPS were done differently than previous games, which would be acceptable. Also, things like Vampires would never have been expanded on the way they were if they were part of an EP. They would have been, like in the past, just another same-'ol life state with barely a new twist to matter.
So, because I'm probably going to start phasing out of this discussion since you are unable to concede that your opinion is just that - an opinion, and using all the "facts" and skewed perspective you can dream up isn't going to change that ultimate truth - I'm going to wrap this post up with a final word.
No matter how many paragraphs or spread sheets or charts or poly counts or presentations you make to try to prove that one game is "objectively" better than another, you will always fail. Because there is no such thing. That is the real fallacy. I can trash talk Sims 3 until the cows come home and nitpick and make an example with gathered evidence for every single bad choice that was made, but it won't make someone who loves it see my way. The same principle applies here. I don't even know why you are on such a desperate crusade to prove your opinion to be "the right one", or why you have such a difficult time accepting that players just prefer different things. In the end, all feedback matters to the company. So you can present a post with 17 paragraphs of why you believe StrangerVille is so "inferior", and the next Simmer could write one sentence saying they enjoyed the story and the town and the items that came with it, and you know what? Both posts are equally valid. Your use of manipulative debate tactics to try to out-argue people into a corner to get them to back down just to prove yourself "right" are transparent, a little bullyish, and totally unnecessary. It might benefit you to learn how to agree to disagree and accept that there are people who just like things that you don't. It's just a game. If people are entertained by it, that's all the argument they need.
I bought Lucky Palms and regretted it afterwards. Never liked the world and therefore hardly ever played in it.
Strangerville is appealing to me. I enjoy playing in it and haven't stopped playing in it since its release.
- My saying that objects in TS2 and 3 have a higher polycount and texture frequency isn't an opinion; it's a fact.
- My saying that 10/14 gameplay objects featured in TS4 Stuff Packs were included in expansions in past games isn't an opinion; it's a fact.
- My saying that Lucky Palms SE and Gold Edition cost at the most $17 USD and $24 USD respectively in my region isn't an opinion, it's a fact.
You just don't care about facts. It's all about what you think and what you feel. That's perfectly fine, but I find your rants hilarious when all I'm trying to do is present facts and data to support my arguments.
Imagine thinking that higher quality meshes don't matter. Might as well keep playing PlayStation 1 games if that's the case. Why did people even try to upgrade Lara Croft's model from 200 faces to 33K if graphics don't matter?
Those are two different things. Graphics and aesthetics aren't the same. My argument was about graphical quality, an objective value, yours is about aesthetics, a 100% subjective one. Some people prefer TS1-3 pseudo-realistic art style, others prefer TS4 highly stylized one. Whether something looks pleasing is assessed through a subjective lens (beauty is in the eye of the beholder). The graphics aren't subjective. A vertex, a pixel, a face, keyframes per animations, are quantifiable data. When analyzing the amount of work put into a pack is important to take these things into account. It doesn't take the same amount of work for a 3D artist to model an object with 100 faces than an object with 1K faces.
It's useless because you say so? What? The problem is that you're twisting my argument (straw manning as always). I never say you have to like this because it has higher quality meshes. We're comparing Stuff Packs and pointing out the fact that TS4 SPs feature lower polycounts than objects in TS3 packs is important for this argument.
Again all these qualifiers are laughable when you don't even prove WHY they're weak. The concrete evidence you're looking for is PRECEDENT. Precedent is definied as: "an earlier event or action that is regarded as an example or guide to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances." That's exactly what I'm using when making the assertion that EPs in TS4 are broken up in smaller pieces to be sold "piecemeal" as you put it. The precedent set by all previous games. Something else you're ignoring is that 10 out of 14 packs include gameplay objects that had previously been included in EPs. That's a pattern.
I do agree about vampires and I wish more packs added enough gameplay value to justify the extra price you have to pay for them. Regrettably, Vampires is the exception, not the rule.
I love how you want me to concede. I'm not going to concede because you want me to. By the way, facts are facts, they aren't "facts" with quotation marks. Skewed perspective because you say so? Ultimate truth? What are you even on about?
It's not what I'm trying to do and you know it. Stop straw manning my arguments to make them easy to attack. I'm perfectly okay accepting people prefer different things. As a logical person I try to understand WHY. It inevitably leads me to analyze things from an objective point of view, or as objective as possible can. I'm not perfect, but I do make an effort and I don't leave it as "it's a matter of opinion." Liking or preferring one thing over another IS A MATTER OF OPINION. One game/pack being better than another can be assessed with a more objective perspective, and that's why I'm trying to do. The difference between the former and the latter is that your preference or taste will always be subjective because you're a person. Video games are OBJECTS and therefore can be analyzed by facts.
Both may be valid, but doesn't mean that one isn't better than the other. If what you're saying were true, academia wouldn't exist. What's the point of an evolutionary biologist publishing a carefully researched paper if their dissertation has the same value than a random person on the internet writing "evolution doesn't exist."
Those scary debate tactics.
Done. Thread should be closed. Heck, Forum should be closed. What's the point of a DISCUSSION forum if we can't discuss things related to the game? Imagine every post being: "I'm entertained by this game/pack" - "I'm not entertained by this game/pack." This is a discussion forum, the point IS to discuss.
As @LiELF said, just accept the fact that not everyone loves the sims 3 like you do. And accept the fact that there are a LOT of simmers enjoying this pack, and Sims 4.
A lot indeed.
I value Strangerville more for many reasons. As a rotational player, I love and need the freedom for my sims to live/visit the different worlds, the different climates without losing friends and family, mod free that is. That freedom wasn't technically there if my sims lived in Lucky Palms or any other sims 3 world. For me, it was weird for my huge family of vampires to live in Lucky Palms. In my mind it was too hot, and too sunny for them. At the end of the day it comes down to people's play style, certain freedoms, you name it. There is no right or wrong comparison between the two worlds. Only what you like.
Twitch jovi_jov
Twitter BarbieSimmy
Origin SimsBarbie
You could create a flow chart on why pop punk is "objectively" better than hardcore punk, and it would also mean nothing. Because music, art, movies and games are a completely unique, and personal experience.
This is why I have so many issues with certain hardcore sims 3 stans, their narrative begins with their experience as the default, as they try to contort the pieces to fit their conclusion, all while disingenuously calling themselves "objective".
"academia wouldn't exist. What's the point of an evolutionary biologist publishing a carefully researched paper if their dissertation has the same value than a random person on the internet writing "evolution doesn't exist." You conflating biology and video games is intellectually bankrupt, and you know it. Biology is OBSERVABLE, and repeatable, researchers need peer review before any of their propositions are published; the arts (video games) are (pertaining to like/dislike) a preference that can not be quantified with the same measurements- video games/movies/art style have too many varying tastes. Academia will still exist, whether or not we agree with your bloviating, spreadsheets.
You have way too much confirmation bias, to be objective and regurgitating the word doesn't make you more credible; there is a big difference between "facts(tm)" and facts; facts speak for themselves, too many people throw around the word "fact(tm)" to support their personal arguments; all while flamebating, then to try to pass it off as "intellectual curiosity".
Great post. Well said.
The fact you're claiming that only exact and natural sciences can be supported by evidence and facts tells me you don't know about research methodology. Furthermore, your claiming that only something observable and "repeatable" (what you probably mean is testifiable, as even within exact sciences many theories aren't "repeatable") can be researched suggests that the extend of your knowledge goes as far as the late 19th century, when Empiricism was the only accepted scientific method.
This conversation is out of control.
This is the person who shows up to a water balloon fight with an artillery tank and wonders why no one wants to play.
https://www.allaboutscience.org/scientific-method.htm We aren't having a sociological discussion, or analysing the sims series here, you are having a tantrum (because people like something you don't) and you're trying to pass it off as "facts, logic, objective". People have explained why they prefer the sims 4 to you, you not only ignore them you create elaborate reasons as to why they shouldn't think the way they do.
Who said art can not be studied? The point was TASTE IN ART, can't be measured; did you skip the: "pertaining to like/dislike"? You're simply being obtuse.
I'm sorry but coming from a "professor" who "wasn't aware of regional changes", who doesn't understand condensation (to keep posts simple, for everyone to understand); all your blathering about your degree doesn't mean much - even George W Bush has a BA.
What you get with Lucky Palms: Lucky Palms (unless you buy the Gold edition which includes the casino and content), and I think some new B/B and CAS.
What you get with StrangerVille:
StrangerVille
New career
New aspiration
11 new lots (the same number as an expansion like GF) And unlike other GPs like JA or OR, your Sims can actually live in StrangerVille. You don't even have to solve the mystery -- you can leave it with the odd residents and do perfectly well. If your Sims don't eat the strange fruit they won't be infected.
Price: $20 US, similar price as Lucky Palms Gold.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I liked Lucky Palms (though it felt a bit fake with the "houseboats" on the river once we got realy houseboats with IP). The only world I regretted purchasing was Lunar Lakes and I got that on a sale anyway towards the end of the run. I also enjoy Strangerville -- I'm planning once I solve the mystery to move the premades (except for the dude with the crashed plane) to other worlds then use it as a place to house the premades that Maxis has been uploading especially now that we've got the Curious brothers. I'll need to remodel a few of the homes up on the bluff first, and maybe give one of the brothers the Paranoid trait just for fun.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
According to Ellas Word Press she never bought Roaring Heights - which is why she never did anything to it. All her fixed worlds etc are on her Word Press Pages
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....