"I can't know the pricing in every region in the US and worldwide." Yet, you feel quite comfortable reiterating your equations based on your circumstances, while disregarding the circumstances of others.
"The 24360 bundle for US$ 106.99 makes it so 1 SimPoints = US$ 0.0043. With this bundle Lucky Palm costs $10 the Standard Edition and $14 the Gold Edition." Again; what good is it, spending $106.99 (to save $10 - $40) if all you want is a world? Do you not see how convoluted this reasoning is? You seem to be ignoring too many factors for your math to have a practical use, especially for those of us who don't live in your region with your pricing.
How many people do you know, that would spend $100 to save $10?
@Eloka I think it's time we stop derailing the thread before it's closed. The price of each product wasn't the central point of this thread. There are too many variables and regional changes (which I wasn't aware of) to take price into account. For me, Lucky Palms SE is cheaper than StrangerVille; for others it may be more expensive. Let's leave at that.
I won't be answering any more questions about pricing, as it has derailed the thing I really wanted to talk about, which is the quality of a desert world for The Sims 3 and a desert world for The Sims 4.
The whole idea behind this thread was to compare the quality of each world. Size was just one element. The other was the interiors and exteriors of premade lots, which everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring. I included more images HERE.
ETA: I'll probably take screenshots of interiors in StrangerVille soon.
I think it is fair game to compare each of the games, they all have something different that they offer. The ultimate idea here I think that was being presented was quality and quantity that changed greatly from Sims 3 to Sims 4. I love each one for its quirks and unique capabilities.
The Sims
Prior to The Sims I was an avid Sims City 2000 player, and still get nostalgic thinking about it. When The Sims was released I bought it immediately, I loved all aspects and possibilities with the game. For me it was the first of its kind and was the only type of game that I really enjoyed on any platform of that time. It was the beginning and in every right it was perfect, because it was the start and there was nothing to compare to at the time.
The Sims 2
This era of the game really was my favorite for a lot of reasons. It was credibly a true enhancement of the game. It took the game into 3D. It had ingenuity and precision detailing. I owned every single thing that came out for The Sims 2. Every expansion blended well with each other and truly brought a whole new level of game play quality. There were new ideas and the additional content was new. The Community at the time was very close knit everyone uplifted each other. It was fun to mod and recolor things in the game, Building was fun, and I distinctly remember working with another blogger about garden design. Again it was really hard to compare this to its predecessor because it really was an enhancement of the game.
The Sims 3
This Era of the game lasted the longest for me. I simply loved the open world format and the detail was divine to me. I loved that it brought with it many of the things I loved from The Sims 2. I enjoyed all of the collecting and some of the new expansions ideas like into the Future, which was one of my favorites and a legacy one of my children continues. The hardest thing about The Sims 3 was the operating system and lagging issues I experienced. To really be able to play for a long time you had to really be selective in which expansions you were going to play with. I mean the game was huge and I was never going to afford a computer that might possibly play the game. The loading screens were daunting and compared to The Sims 2 were much worse.
The Sims 4
This Era took me the longest to get into. Many of the initial reviews did not paint a good picture for the game. It was buggy and stark, seemingly stripped of the Sims Essence. I always intended to get it, I would just give it time to develop more. I have been playing since last Christmas and I have to say, I do like it, but there are things that are very obvious and concerning about it. I love that it plays well on my computer and has an option for laptop. It definitely has limitations, possibly from the underlying operating design that I really have little knowledge about. Other will. For me it was an upgrade from The Sims 3 in the ability to play without lagging or crashing. It has the open neighborhood and I actually am happy with that. I like for what it is. If you compare it graphically to The Sims 3 it certainly cannot compare, but in its own right still beautiful. I miss the quirkiness of the Sims. They seemed more lively in the preceding games. I also wish the story progression would happen. It took me a while to get the hang of build mode, it feels a little rigid to me.
The thing is in many ways the quality of the product is not as great as it once was, I would take quality over quantity at this point. I never really liked the stuff pack content idea, in Sims 3 the stuff packs did lend to the game play. In Sims 4 I feel while a few did bring something to the game, many should have just been included with the expansion they mirror, and others well, they look pretty but the interaction feels lacking. I am overall disappointed with what the Stuff packs for Sims 4 brought and did not bring to the game. I could go on, but I will stop here.
Remember , these are my thoughts and opinions from my experiences with the game alone. I love all the games for their Unique contribution to the franchise.
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For me the question of quantity vs quality is a really important one. TS2 had a lot of quality, but not great quantity. Not every feature from TS1 was implemented in 2 (fame, for example), but there was an insane amount of work put to every feature implemented. TS3 triumphs in quantity, but not everything is of the best possible quality, especially compared to TS2, many features like business, apartments and restaurants left a lot to be desired. There were some things I think TS3 did better. Unique personalities is one of them in my opinion.
TS4 has an insane amount of quantity when it comes to deco stuff, but lacks unique functional or gameplay objects. There's only one type of stairs, no bunk beds or sleeping bags, no pool tables or any type of single player arcade machine, no gambling objects, etc. Some objects have a decent quality, but for the most part quality has decreased compared to Sims 3, and even more so compared to Sims 2.
Every single animation in The Sims 4 has been super simplified. Sims in 4 don't even touch objects when they interact with them. Look at the way they would use faucets when cleaning their hands in 2 and 3. In 4 everything happens via telekinesis or something. And let's not even talk about features from previous packs. Other than vampires, toddlers, holidays and restaurants, every feature is a huge let down compared to TS2 and 3. Businesses, apartments, festivals, pets, weather, etc.
@naus, yes, You have great points, I think for me the fame aspect has always been a dry area. I try to get into it, I just don't love it, it is just too needy for me and like in real life my sims are mostly introverts, lol. I Loved the personalities in Sims 3 and the open world, I liked how the sims interacted with objects and each other. I agree 100% with your thoughts on the Sims 4, the interactions are very lacking, what happened to the actual sims touching stuff, it bugs me out. There is so much quantity but the quality in sims 4 is very different to say the least. I have learned to love it for what it is. This with be the first era of Sims games that I buy considerably less. I feel like the stuff packs should have just been in the game. Some of the game packs are just not of interest to me. I know we all get something and take away something different from the game. For me the Pinnacle was Sims 2. I owned everything, I loved everything. But I am a simmer regardless, and so I love each for what they offer. Totally different game play. If they were to make a Sims 5 what would you want to see combined from all of the games? It seems you have more of an understanding then I do about the technical aspects of the game. I am intrigued.
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I tried to like The Sims 4 for what it is, but it's very difficult. I do enjoy building and CAS. But live mode? I just can't play for more than 1 or 2 hours without being bored to death. If Sims in 4 had a little bit more of personality. They feel more like dolls rather than virtual people and it takes me out of the game completely. Everything, from the way the phase through each other like ghosts, to the way they don't touch anything or interact with the world they live in, to the big pauses in between actions. There's just so much wrong with the game, I can't get into it.
If they were to make a Sims 5 what would you want to see combined from all of the games? It seems you have more of an understanding then I do about the technical aspects of the game.
I wrote some ideas for a possible Sims 5 on another forum. This is what I wrote:
What would you keep from previous games?
The starting point should be The Sims 3: open world, create-a-style, traits story progression, with the same attention to detail TS2 has and the user-friendly tools of The Sims 4. Multitasking should be developed for the ground up. It's a good concept but it wasn't implemented all that well in The Sims 4.
What would you throw out?
Emotions. I think they don't work at all and there's no way to improve them.
Less emphasis on goals and aspirations.
What art style does your game go for? Realistic? Cartoony?
Neither and both. I think The Sims Medieval is the perfect balance between realistic and cartoonish. Definitely try to incorporate the best technology possible when it comes to lighting, shadows, shaders, AA, AF, etc. High-poly meshes (2K-10K for objects, 20K for Sims) and high quality textures (2K with high frequency for objects, 4K with high frequency for Sims). Animations should be done with motion capture technology. Over the top FXs should be kept to a minimum.
What is critical to have in the Base Game?
I think rain/fog should be in the base game. Laundry too as an opt-in feature. Same with cars, restaurants, basic stores (clothing, book and grocery) and nightclubs. All these features could be expanded later.
All life stages from TS2/3 with as many interactions and objects as possible (I'd try to recreate every object for babies and toddles that has appeared in previous Sims games).
All basic NPCs should be in the base game: burglar, firefighter, police officer, etc. All basic objects should be in the base game: dishwashers and trash compactors, video game consoles, laptops, piano, guitar, hot tub, spiral staircase, etc.
Pools, basements, pond tool, terrain tools, all common types of roof should be in the base game.
What would you save for Expansions?
Pets, University and most BIG features. Small pets like fish and rodents could be included in the base game, but cat, dogs and other big pets are too complex and difficult to be part of the base game.
Supernatural creatures / Life states other than ghosts.
What has been missing from the series and should be introduced?
Way too many things to even list, but off the top of my head:
BUILD/BUY:
- Walls shouldn't be ONE tile, but half a tile to allow for more creativity.
- Curved walls. All windows and doors should be made to function on curved walls.
- 7 floors and 5 basement levels by default. A cheat to have infinite levels for those with powerful machines.
- Split Leveling Tool. You can split a level as many times as you want and join all the different levels with stairs. Split levels don't count against the 7 level limit.
- 100% free object placement. No more SLOTS, every object can be placed on surface freely and it gets attached to the object underneath (though this feature can be disable for convenience).
- A tool to automatize tree/flora placement, you select an area, click and it auto places trees at a random distance. There's a slider to control how close to each other trees are placed.
CAS:
- Five traits per Sim. Zodiac signs that affect chemistry. Turn-ons and Turn-offs (since there's a Create a Style tool, you can choose a range of colors using hexadecimal or RGB codes to determine which hair/eyes your Sim prefers).
- Fatal flaws from The Sims Medieval return. You must choose a fatal flaw for every Sim teen or older.
- 3 heights per Sim: short, average and tall starting from teens onwards. A height slider sounds good but it's impossible to implement with our current tech.
- Both the Pull & Push System of The Sims 4 and an advanced mode with sliders for extra precision.
- Clothes can be layered, like in TS2 for PS2.
GAMEPLAY/GENERAL:
- Most of the resources should be spent developing good AI. What made TS2 the best of the franchise (objectively) was how rich and diverse its AI was. It should be taken one step forward and make them smarter than ever. Hire AI engineers and give them as many resources as they need to make a complex human-like AI. It'll be worth it in the end.
- Basic systems improved versions of previous games: chemistry (TS2), gossip (TS2+3), memories (TS2), moodlets (TS3), reputation (TS3). The more complex systems you account for, the more prepared you are in terms of developing a good engine. Other systems could be added later (a more complex fame system for example). Measures to avoid corruption like in TS2 should be taken.
- A hardcore mode for extra realism. You can't buy food from the fridge and bookcases have no books, you have to save money and buy everything at stores. Same with clothes. You only get the clothes your Sim has when you make them, everything else you have to buy, even your work clothes. Add also an option to DISABLE the hand tool in live mode so you can drag objects to your Sim inventory, you have to make them pick those objects up.
- TOGGLES. Hundreds upon hundreds of toggles that function on a per-save basis. Everything you can change now with XML mods, you should be able to change in-game to make the game function exactly as you want. You can also export settings to share or to load in another save. Important to add good descriptions so people know exactly what they're changing. 100% customizable life span (including length of pregnancy).
- Every career should have an exclusive reward item like in The Sims 2 AND some exclusive interactions like in 2 and 3 (and some careers in 4).
- Some active jobs at stores, restaurant (as chef/waiter/receptionist) and nightclub (bartender, DJ).
- All Service jobs can be played as active: maid, gardener, repair technician, exterminator and social worker. You are assigned a schedule every day and you have to go around town completing these tasks. You can't be promoted but can charge more for your service as your skills improve and you become more and more known (word of mouth).
@naus nice, I think you have touched on some good points with that, and I could see myself agreeing with pretty much everything. Nice work and thanks for sharing!
Edited to add: heights such a big thing for me, I do not love all the same height, but maybe that is because I short myself
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This is the cost of the world in US dollars. If you have localized prices, it may be different. But this is the information I have access to. I can't know the price in EVERY country/state/city in the world.
StrangerVille, at $20, which is what the company charged during Sims 3's reign for a Stuff Pack, is by far the better deal.
The quality of Stuff Packs for The Sims 3 was day/night compared to the quality of Stuff Packs for The Sims 4. The Sims 4 offers one or two gameplay object, many of which would've been in a larger EP, but most assets have a VERY LOW graphic quality.
For example, this chair from Cool Kitchen has 110 faces. In contrast, a chair from Outdoor Living has 952 faces.
And if you think I'm being unfair by picking that particular chair, here's a list of some chairs from other TS4 SPs:
- Wicker Whims Dining Chair: 503 faces.
- Formerly Folding Chair: 616 faces.
- My First Desk Chair: 666 faces.
- Nya Desk Chair: 490 faces. Average: 568 faces.
Vs. Chairs from The Sims 3 Stuff Packs:
- Chair Dining Rock (70s, 80s, 90s): 784 faces.
- Chair Dining Movies Curved (Movie Stuff): 950 faces.
- Chair Dining Decades Wedge (70s, 80s, 90s): 954 faces.
- Chair Dining Movies Curl (Movie Stuff): 512 faces. Average: 800 faces.
Not to mention the fact that almost EVERY object for The Sims 3 was FULLY recolarable (Create-A-Style-able), which requires a special UV map, a baked multiplier, a carefully crafted mask and overlays, etc. Much more work than making a simple color swatch. And let's not even talk about the fact that a huge number of objects in TS4 SPs are deco only. That's a discussion for another day.
You're getting what you're paying for. You pay $10, you get non-recolarable lower quality assets with a gameplay object that would've been in an expansion or even the base game in the past.
You are just trying way too hard. How many Simmers are actually counting faces on their Sim objects? Come on, man. And for all of that "high quality" you claim is in Sims 3, the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful. The Sims 4 style is more uniform and I truly prefer it over Sims 3. Sims 3 is not visually consistent and it looks sloppy. I think that's the problem with trying to make a Sims game look too realistic and then putting weird-looking Sims into that environment. But that could also partly be the result of having two separate studios doing content. It's not streamlined.
As for the style tool, I will concede that it's definitely useful enough for build/buy, I will give you that. The customization for furniture makes a lot of sense when wanting to decorate, and the lack of a tool in Sims 4 is something that I see a lot of players struggle with because EA doesn't give enough options for matching furniture styles. Even Sims 2 gave better options there. So I agree with that. But for CAS, the style tool is superficial when the CAS itself is wanting. Make no mistake, things were sacrificed in order to have that tool in there. Look at the general Sim creation. It is so difficult to make a Sim with specific features, even Sims 2 body shop did a better job. And there are so few CAS meshes so the selection is way too limited. I didn't even use the style tool in CAS because what good is it if I can't even get a decent outfit to begin with? The color wheel was okay, but I actually would prefer a large swatch grid to choose from for any CAS item, which is what I'm hoping they do in the next iteration. Anyway, the last thing I'll say about CaSt is that it contributed to performance issues. If there is a Sims 5 in the future, I think they should return to the Body Shop idea and ship an external tool with the game for recoloring/retexturing so that it doesn't bog down performance. But make it smoother and easier to import/export creations.
Anyway, back to the original topic. As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me. They are valid. The world is way, way too overpriced, especially when hardly anything comes with it. I'm not a builder, so what use is having all of those lots? If you enjoy building in sims 3, maybe that cost is worth it for you, but that is ultimately subjective because what about all of the other players who don't? Seriously, the gold edition is the price of an expansion pack if I want to buy it. I can't reiterate that enough.
Furthermore, regarding price points on Stuff Packs, you have got to be kidding me. Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20. Even when I was happily playing Sims 2 I thought they were expensive for what they were. These Stuff Packs cost half of the price of an expansion pack! Surely, you can see how ludicrous that is. They were overpriced from the beginning. So one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price, plus include a little gameplay. Granted, not all Stuff Packs are created equal, but couldn't that be said of all of the Stuff Packs of previous games? I have found that Stuff Packs are generally reasonable for what we get, and if I feel that some are not worth my $10, I wait for a sale. But I'm satisfied with the new Stuff Pack model. The EPs are another thing entirely, but I'm not going to derail by going down that route, that's a whole other can of worms, lol. I'll just say that I think they are finally improving. Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs. You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?
You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered. That's fair. You don't think StrangerVille is worth your money. That's fair too. But that does not mean that StrangerVille is objectively worth less than Lucky Springs. That's coming from a place of personal bias.
Even if you're just comparing the quality of the premade lots, it's an apple to kittens comparison, because, the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story. And it doesn't even matter, because I can easily find amazing builds on the Gallery in the blink of an eye.
As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag.
Even if you're just comparing the quality of the premade lots, it's an apple to kittens comparison, because, the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story. And it doesn't even matter, because I can easily find amazing builds on the Gallery in the blink of an eye.
As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag.
Lag for who I may ask? Not me as I have 6 systems capable of blowing Sims 4 out of the water. If you are saying low end systems that is great but for high end systems not so great. But that is something that was said today that may have lowenders nervous and in an way that may change Sims 4 going forward.
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@LiELF Whereas I present empirical information to support my claims, all you do is user your personal preferences as supporting evidence.
"the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful."
That's factually incorrect. The Sims 3 has a consistent standard of mask size (250 pixels per square grid). What means is that a pattern (which can be 256 or 512 pixels) will be repeated 1 time per square grid. The Sims 3 doesn't really have textures. Objects have presets (pre-selected styles) but you can change them into whatever you want. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim textures are mismatched. Textures are created dynamically in-game and it's up to you to select the patterns and colors you want. It cannot be mismatched unless you mismatch textures on purpose.
"As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me."
And I have presented what prices are showing for me. They're equally as valid. Lucky Palms SE is cheaper than StrangerVille for me. The Gold Edition is only $4.5 US dollars more expensive. I already own Lucky Palms and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. It's one of the worlds I use the most, I love the way it looks, I love the amount of space I have to add community lots from other EPs, and I love the new gameplay added with the Gold Edition. The Casino has infinitely more value (in my opinion, of course) than StrangerVille's 2-hour linear storyline, 3 gameplay objects and a career (that has always been part of the base game, BTW) with 5 new interactions.
"Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20."
No. Both Sims 2 and 3 offered a bunch of HIGH QUALITY items for $20. I could start breaking down the number of FUNCTIONAL items you get in each pack, which is less subjective than saying I prefer one or the other, but I let an image speak for itself. This is what you get in BB mode in the first Stuff Pack for each game:
It's not just about the quantity of items. You're also getting more functional objects, like beds; which, if you know anything about rigging and animations, you must know how difficult is to animate bed sheets. And both games, TS2 and 3, gives you more options when it comes to customizing furniture. Beddings in TS2, for example, all share the same textures, so you don't have to struggle to find the bed sheets you want unlike TS4, which has swatches combining both bed frames and bedding.
"one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price"
You're paying what you're getting: lower price, for lower quality items. Do I have to keep bringing up the poor quality of meshes in The Sims 4? The fact that TS2's meshes have a higher polycount. A game released ten years before has higher quality meshes; let that sink in for a second.
"Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs."
Except that they include content that had previously been part of expansions but you have to pay EXTRA money now.
- Spa day and dine out include features from The Sims 2 Open for Business and Bon Voyage. Meditation was a base game skill. Owning a restaurant is better in The Sims 2 OFB. You can even work as a chef, which Dine Out doesn't give you the option to do.
- Outdoor Retreat added a single destination to vacation, whereas Bon Voyage added three for $30 USD ($40 taking inflation into account).
- Jungle Adventures added a single location with a single adventure (only thing that changes is layout) for $20. World Adventures added THREE locations with dozens of quests and almost 40 tombs as well as the option to create your own through powerful triggers.
- Parenthood adds a tiny bit amount of gameplay compared to Generations for half the price (besides, Generation also adds an insane amount of gameplay objects like spiral stairs, bunk beds, sleeping bags, playground equipment, tree houses, etc, etc, etc).
- And I won't even talk about StrangerVille. I think everyone already knows what I think about that pack.
- Vampires is probably the only Game Pack that actually EXPANDED a feature from previous games and I think it was justified as its own separate pack. So out of 7 Game Packs, only one feels like it was worth to be released as a separate pack.
Stuff Packs, as I said many times, they mostly include gameplay items that would've been included in EPs in the past like buffet tables (base game), bowling alleys (Nightlife, UL), butlers (Superstar, Apartment Life, Late Night), slip 'n' slide (Generations), laundry (Ambitions), etc. And they barely add any new gameplay to justify these features being their own pack.
"You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?"
Except I didn't have to pick and choose in the past. Buying EPs would give me all the gameplay Stuff Packs and Game Packs have now. The only exceptions, as I said, are Vampires and Kids Room. The first actually expands a feature enough to be worth being its own pack; the second one has new gameplay (never featured in the series) and it actually has a good amount of replayability.
"You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered."
I prefer the way Expansion Packs actually expanded the game in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3. EPs feel like they barely add anything new now. Why? Because a lot of content is being sold as separate packs.
@Pegasys
"the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story."
Oh, yeah... right. That's the excuse they're using now. Not even James Turner, aka The SimSupply, believed that excuse if you watch his reaction to the empty houses with SimGuruRomeo. I guess next time a game-breaking bug occurs they can use the old meme: "it's not a bug; it's a feature."
"As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag."
The same way they got rid of open world, create-a-style or a color wheel, story progression, complex simology like in 2, limit the amount of lots, etc. all to cut down lag???? What kind of game needs to do so many sacrifices to cut down? We're talking about a FACT and it's that objects in TS2 and 3, games released 10 and 5 years before TS4, have a higher polycount and their 2014 sequel.
@DeservedCr...I mean, @Naus, you're going on and on trying to be "objective" and "empirical" about the comparisons between the packs, while dismissing the things we're trying to counter with. For example I mentioned the Gallery - which is a HUGE improvement - and basically makes it so it doesn't even matter what the prebuilt lots are - I can easily replace them with one of literally thousands of extremely well-built lots at any time.
In any case, rather than discuss point-by-point as it's rather pointless as you know what you like, and I know what I like, I will leave with this: in the end it is all subjective. I don't care how many polys, or specific objects came with previous packs. I prefer the visual style of Sims 4. And I prefer the sims in Sims 4. No amount of extra lots or textures or price-points will change that. And because of that I welcomed StrangerVille.
If we are starting to juxtapose sims 2, sims 3 doesn't come close either. None of the store restaurant/bakery content for sims 3 compare to the sims 2 OFB; so even bringing that up as a slight against 4 is disingenuous, you couldn't even work in the sims 3 restaurants.
Watch the animations you posted, watch the difference between the sims 2 and the sims 3 for cooking - the sims from 3 just pull a bowl, cookware and utensils out of thin air; the sims from sims 2 opens the cupboards/draws and retrieves bowls, cooking utensils, cookware. The sims 3 cracks eggs onto a cutting board? The sims 3 money is taken from wallet if you don't have the ingredients, sims 2 you have to shop for your food.
Watch the animations of a sim in the sims 2 getting into a car vs the sims 3 getting into a car and ask how they managed to simplify them to such a degree, if they reused the same animations anyway. In the sims 2 they open the door, get in and close door, back out and drive away - in the sims 3 they magically appear in their car on the road.
The sims 2 had hair physics, a game from 2004, has moving hair that 2 newer games, working with better software and still couldn't manage. Those little touches - sims 2 children crying if they see their parents fighting which the parents could then console, you can dance with your children on your feet, cuddle on the couch; the interactions between sims, in sims 2 is much more complex and nuanced.
Fears, wants, personality, chemistry all replaced with moodlets in the sims 3, which only added to their robotic demeanor and lack of unique personalities. Sims in 2 were actually impacted by their personality traits and their memories, if a sim grew up bad it would affect their life; if people had opposite personalities "playful/serious" or "grumpy/nice" it was incredibly hard to make them friends. Sims 2 personality system would impact how a sim approached everything, down to showering. Sims 3 you gave them 5 traits which made most sims act interchangeably (unless it was something like evil) and they barely react to their experiences.
The sims 3 left out so many amazing aspects from the sims 2 that made the sims what it is, it barely qualifies for me. Comparing sims 3 to sims 2 is like comparing a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 to a pearl, sims 3 isn't in the same league.
I agree with some things you pointed out in the first part (restaurant/business system, animations, etc). The Sims 3 definitely simplified a lot of things and Store sets weren't as good as fully fledged EP features in 2. I'm still upset we never got a proper retail system (though retail in 4 isn't much better than the Savvy Seller collection).
However, I strongly disagree about personalities. Sims in 3 have more unique personalities, as traits give them more well definied behaviors (there are only 10 possible behaviors in 2 + combos, only determined by personality points below 3 and above 7). Wishes in 3 are better than wants. They are over 3000 unique wishes in 3 vs less than 500 in 2. Moodlets also give more personality to Sims, as they add temporary behaviors or complement actions happening on screen (as I explained before).
Chemistry is also much better in 3. In 2 chemistry/attraction only took three things into account: zodiac signs, aspiration and turn ons/offs. In 3, there are over a dozen of factors taken into account for attraction: skills (and bonus per level), careers (and career level), traits, occult types, celebrity status per level, zodiac signs, life time rewards, and EVEN some moodlets like: "Fresh Clothing, Minty Breath, Nice Nails, Smooth Skin, Squeaky Clean, Very Fresh Clothing, Eye Candy, Stylin', Stylin' Permanent, Suntanned." Whereas other moodlets actually decrease the level of attraction: "Garlic Breath, Grungy, Singed, Singed Electricity, Smelly, Sunburnt, Spray Tan Bad, Spray Tan Discolored, Spray Tan Uneven." There's no comparison. The Sims 2's chemistry system was extremely basic. *
The only two things TS2 did better when it comes to simology are: interests and memories. Memories in particular I believe were very poorly implemented in 3, though TS2's memory system was far from perfect (like having a memory for burning food or seeing roaches, super mundane things). I wish TS3 had actually improved on TS2's memory system like they did with chemistry.
You can say whatever you want about personalities, but the code doesn't lie. TS3's traits, moodlets, wishers and attraction system are factually superior than TS2 personality points, wants and chemistry.
* ETA: You can retune TS3 attraction system to do exactly what you want. You don't want zodiac signs to be taken into account, just set the kMatchingSignsBonus value to 0 in the ITUN file for attraction. TS2's chemistry system is VERY difficult to change and customize (partially hard coded). In fact, no one has been able to ADD new turn ons/off, only replace existing ones.
As I said before folks the thread was started to compare Lucky Palms vs Strangerville, if you're wanting to discuss the merits of each Sims game and compare them that's fine but you'll need to make a new thread. Keep this on topic please.
Different scope of expansion. Different price point. Etc.
Different scope of expansion??? Both are smaller additions than Expansion Packs but larger than Stuff Packs.
Price points are pretty similar.
Lucky Palms costs US$ 17.12 for Standard Edition or US$24 for the Gold Edition.
But it costs less the bigger the bundle you buy. The 24360 bundle for US$ 106.99 makes it so 1 SimPoints = US$ 0.0043. With this bundle Lucky Palm costs $10 the Standard Edition and $14 the Gold Edition.
I'm not sure where you are getting these price points. Maybe I'm missing something, but right now, when I look it up, if I want to buy Lucky Palms this very moment, just the standard version, I have to spend a minimum of $30 (USD). The cost of Sim Points right now in Origin are:
$10 for 1000 Points
$20 for 2040 Points
$40 for 5000 Points
...And beyond that, it gets really crazy with the costs. And here is the actual point cost listed with Lucky Palms in the store:
Standard: 2450
Gold: 3524
So when I look at this, I have to pay at least $30 for standard edition, and a whopping $40, the cost of an expansion pack, for the gold edition, which only includes a few paltry extra items. (See @Ceres_Meiriona 's post for the scant things you get with this world for both price points.)
No way is it worth this. No way. The Sims 3's store and point system is just one of the several crude choices that were made for Sims 3 that made me turn away from it right after base game release because it was such an insulting, obscene way to clean out players' pockets. Looking at this again just reinforces that. If ever there was an example of EA blatantly making a capitalistic lunge to sell out the Sims franchise, this is it.
StrangerVille, at $20, which is what the company charged during Sims 3's reign for a Stuff Pack, is by far the better deal.
THIS. Sims 3's STUFF packs were 20 dollars AND didn't even include gameplay items. (Except High End Loft Stuff which had an electric guitar and aquarium.) I stand my ground--in every regard--Sims 4's price points and value are beyond superior to me!!
THIS. Sims 3's STUFF packs were 20 dollars AND didn't even include gameplay items. (Except High End Loft Stuff which had an electric guitar and aquarium.) I stand my ground--in every regard--Sims 4's price points and value are beyond superior to me!!
You can stand your ground all you want but it doesn't make you any less wrong. Sims 4 Stuff Packs include gameplay that would've been included in an EP in 3.
Luxury Party added a buffet table. It's a base game object in TS2 and 3.
Perfect Patio added hot tubs. It's a base game object in TS2 and it was reintroduced in TS3 Late Night EP.
Cool Kitchen added an ice cream machine. A machine was included with TS3 Seasons.
Spooky Stuff added pumpkin carvin. It was included in TS3 Seasons.
Romantic Garden added a wishing well. It was included in TS2 Seasons. The big fountain is a TS3 BG object.
Backyard Stuff added a slip 'n slide. It was part of TS3 Generations EP.
Vintage Glamour added vanity tables and a butler. Vanity Tables were included in TS2 University, and butlers in TS2 Apartment Life and TS3 Late Night.
Bowling Night added bowling lanes. This object was included in TS2 Nightlife and TS3 University Life.
Laundry Day added laundry equipment. It was included in TS3 Ambitions (except the washtub).
My First Pet added rodents. Rodents were part of TS2 and 3 Pets.
You aren't getting anything new for that price, you're getting objects that would've been included in a GP and now they're exclusive to a SP. In TS3, for example, you could get laundry or hot tubs in a variety of packs. If you want them in TS4, you must buy the specific packs that include that gameplay.
What you are getting is really low quality content, tons of deco and non-functional stuff, with a limited amount of swatches (in contrast to the unlimited customization of TS3) and a very low polycount for 2014 standards (TS2 and 3's assets have higher polycounts).
It's okay if you want to believe SPs in 4 are a better deal than in previous games, but I firmly believe you're getting less QUALITY content even if prices are half of what they were.
I won't be responding to any more posts about things that aren't related to the topic at hand: StrangerVille vs Lucky Palms. I don't want my thread to be closed for people who insist on derailing it with factless comparisons.
I think it's quite a fair comparison considering how Sims 3 vampires and Sims 4 vampires are always being compared despite one quite literally being the focus of the pack while the other not so much. So if we can compare those than this is just as fair. No apples or oranges nonsense.
I personally don't care for desert worlds so that sums up how I feel about both aesthetically. That aside, I've always had a love-hate relationship with Sims 4 worlds. Some of them can be gorgeous and immersive - but that immersion stops when I have to start moving my sims to new worlds. I prefer to play in one world and I can't do that unless I stick to one or two families and that's just not how I enjoy playing The Sims. Because of this, I'll always appreciate the freedom and control that comes with Sims 3 worlds. In my current Sims 3 game I'm able to have my (7) families I'm rotating between with room for many generations to come and room for commercial venues, parks, and whatever else I want to have. This is my way of playing so something like that is important to me.
Despite me not liking desert worlds, I'd definitely say Lucky Palms works in my favor as far as allowing me to play the game the way I want to play. Strangerville is a neat little world, and I could possibly get some storytelling and screenshots out of it but I could never play in it because of how small the world is and my style of play.
THIS. Sims 3's STUFF packs were 20 dollars AND didn't even include gameplay items. (Except High End Loft Stuff which had an electric guitar and aquarium.) I stand my ground--in every regard--Sims 4's price points and value are beyond superior to me!!
You can stand your ground all you want but it doesn't make you any less wrong. Sims 4 Stuff Packs include gameplay that would've been included in an EP in 3.
That's absolutely true, objects in Stuff Packs are now separated from EPs, so they can charge you extra money, S3 EPs included tons of new gameplay, some didn't included worlds, like Seasons, which added half more gameplay that the sims 4 seasons included.
THIS. Sims 3's STUFF packs were 20 dollars AND didn't even include gameplay items. (Except High End Loft Stuff which had an electric guitar and aquarium.) I stand my ground--in every regard--Sims 4's price points and value are beyond superior to me!!
You can stand your ground all you want but it doesn't make you any less wrong. Sims 4 Stuff Packs include gameplay that would've been included in an EP in 3.
Luxury Party added a buffet table. It's a base game object in TS2 and 3.
Perfect Patio added hot tubs. It's a base game object in TS2 and it was reintroduced in TS3 Late Night EP.
Cool Kitchen added an ice cream machine. A machine was included with TS3 Seasons.
Spooky Stuff added pumpkin carvin. It was included in TS3 Seasons.
Romantic Garden added a wishing well. It was included in TS2 Seasons. The big fountain is a TS3 BG object.
Backyard Stuff added a slip 'n slide. It was part of TS3 Generations EP.
Vintage Glamour added vanity tables and a butler. Vanity Tables were included in TS2 University, and butlers in TS2 Apartment Life and TS3 Late Night.
Bowling Night added bowling lanes. This object was included in TS2 Nightlife and TS3 University Life.
Laundry Day added laundry equipment. It was included in TS3 Ambitions (except the washtub).
My First Pet added rodents. Rodents were part of TS2 and 3 Pets.
You aren't getting anything new for that price, you're getting objects that would've been included in a GP and now they're exclusive to a SP. In TS3, for example, you could get laundry or hot tubs in a variety of packs. If you want them in TS4, you must buy the specific packs that include that gameplay.
What you are getting is really low quality content, tons of deco and non-functional stuff, with a limited amount of swatches (in contrast to the unlimited customization of TS3) and a very low polycount for 2014 standards (TS2 and 3's assets have higher polycounts).
It's okay if you want to believe SPs in 4 are a better deal than in previous games, but I firmly believe you're getting less QUALITY content even if prices are half of what they were.
I won't be responding to any more posts about things that aren't related to the topic at hand: StrangerVille vs Lucky Palms. I don't want my thread to be closed for people who insist on derailing it with factless comparisons.
Everything that was said sparked from the conversation of Lucky Palms versus Strangerville. On your original post you were talking about how much money Store points were in your country. Lucky Palms was in The Sims 3 store. Naturally, the conversation evolved to the price of Sims 4 packs vs Sims 3 packs and value for money. You can't mention the word "factless" when we are talking about "opinions". In my personal opinion, Sims 4 packs have been a better overall value. I like Sims 4's style better. I think the hairs, clothes, build objects, and decorations are of higher quality to most Sims 3 items. The game is more visually appealing to me. I think Lucky Palms was very pretty world but was just outrageously priced versus the actual gameplay I gained. I am not a Sims 3 hater. I love the game and play it sometimes but just find Sims 4's art style and overall game more enjoyable. For the 20 dollar price tag, I feel Strangerville has given me more value than the regret I felt blowing 30 bucks on Lucky Palms at the time. That is my OPINION. You are free to have a differing opinion.
I understand it's an EP vs a GP, and the EP you paid extra for the casino. The EP is set more in the Southwest, while the GP is set more in a place like Arizona/Utah.
Lucky Palms isn't an EP. It's a Store World. It costs +$4.5 than StrangerVille but I think it gives more and better content for its price. The Lucky Simoleon Casino cost an additional $11 and adds 3 new gameplay items, a venue and 8 objects. Both can be bought with SimPoints (which means you don't have to pay money since you can earn SimPoints by watching ads and you're gifted SimPoints when you register some EPs) and are on sale pretty often.
Lucky Palms cost 47 us dollars when it came out and was nothing but a store world and casino. I know I bought it. It had no ep or gp stuff about it.
It was 47 DOLLARS??? Wow! That is more than I remember it. So glad we don't have a store system in 4. I much prefer the price points and DLC methods of 4!
I get what he was saying and it is true Sims 4 will never win in comparison due to its lack of tools. Sorry it has to come down to what is better than another version but everything is coming to an head and is it going to get better? Maybe and maybe not.
Yeap. Ultimately we'll have to agree The Sims 3 is objectively a better game. Is it perfect? Far from it. Is The Sims 4 without redeeming qualities? Not at all. But when it comes down to the tools each game provides, the depth of content, the complexity of AI, etc. The Sims 3 reigns supreme.
You can't force us into ultimately agreeing that The Sims 3 is a better game. You clearly don't understand the concept of subjectivity and personal taste. Maybe things you value in a game are not the same things another person values. It all comes down to opinion and I don't understand why you seem to get so upset when people disagree with you.
Comments
"The 24360 bundle for US$ 106.99 makes it so 1 SimPoints = US$ 0.0043. With this bundle Lucky Palm costs $10 the Standard Edition and $14 the Gold Edition." Again; what good is it, spending $106.99 (to save $10 - $40) if all you want is a world? Do you not see how convoluted this reasoning is? You seem to be ignoring too many factors for your math to have a practical use, especially for those of us who don't live in your region with your pricing.
How many people do you know, that would spend $100 to save $10?
I won't be answering any more questions about pricing, as it has derailed the thing I really wanted to talk about, which is the quality of a desert world for The Sims 3 and a desert world for The Sims 4.
The whole idea behind this thread was to compare the quality of each world. Size was just one element. The other was the interiors and exteriors of premade lots, which everyone seems to be conveniently ignoring. I included more images HERE.
ETA: I'll probably take screenshots of interiors in StrangerVille soon.
Lucky Palms.
Although the way you've been extolling it's superiority I'm sure you already have it.
The Sims
Prior to The Sims I was an avid Sims City 2000 player, and still get nostalgic thinking about it. When The Sims was released I bought it immediately, I loved all aspects and possibilities with the game. For me it was the first of its kind and was the only type of game that I really enjoyed on any platform of that time. It was the beginning and in every right it was perfect, because it was the start and there was nothing to compare to at the time.
The Sims 2
This era of the game really was my favorite for a lot of reasons. It was credibly a true enhancement of the game. It took the game into 3D. It had ingenuity and precision detailing. I owned every single thing that came out for The Sims 2. Every expansion blended well with each other and truly brought a whole new level of game play quality. There were new ideas and the additional content was new. The Community at the time was very close knit everyone uplifted each other. It was fun to mod and recolor things in the game, Building was fun, and I distinctly remember working with another blogger about garden design. Again it was really hard to compare this to its predecessor because it really was an enhancement of the game.
The Sims 3
This Era of the game lasted the longest for me. I simply loved the open world format and the detail was divine to me. I loved that it brought with it many of the things I loved from The Sims 2. I enjoyed all of the collecting and some of the new expansions ideas like into the Future, which was one of my favorites and a legacy one of my children continues. The hardest thing about The Sims 3 was the operating system and lagging issues I experienced. To really be able to play for a long time you had to really be selective in which expansions you were going to play with. I mean the game was huge and I was never going to afford a computer that might possibly play the game. The loading screens were daunting and compared to The Sims 2 were much worse.
The Sims 4
This Era took me the longest to get into. Many of the initial reviews did not paint a good picture for the game. It was buggy and stark, seemingly stripped of the Sims Essence. I always intended to get it, I would just give it time to develop more. I have been playing since last Christmas and I have to say, I do like it, but there are things that are very obvious and concerning about it. I love that it plays well on my computer and has an option for laptop. It definitely has limitations, possibly from the underlying operating design that I really have little knowledge about. Other will. For me it was an upgrade from The Sims 3 in the ability to play without lagging or crashing. It has the open neighborhood and I actually am happy with that. I like for what it is. If you compare it graphically to The Sims 3 it certainly cannot compare, but in its own right still beautiful. I miss the quirkiness of the Sims. They seemed more lively in the preceding games. I also wish the story progression would happen. It took me a while to get the hang of build mode, it feels a little rigid to me.
The thing is in many ways the quality of the product is not as great as it once was, I would take quality over quantity at this point. I never really liked the stuff pack content idea, in Sims 3 the stuff packs did lend to the game play. In Sims 4 I feel while a few did bring something to the game, many should have just been included with the expansion they mirror, and others well, they look pretty but the interaction feels lacking. I am overall disappointed with what the Stuff packs for Sims 4 brought and did not bring to the game. I could go on, but I will stop here.
Remember , these are my thoughts and opinions from my experiences with the game alone. I love all the games for their Unique contribution to the franchise.
Cheers!
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For me the question of quantity vs quality is a really important one. TS2 had a lot of quality, but not great quantity. Not every feature from TS1 was implemented in 2 (fame, for example), but there was an insane amount of work put to every feature implemented. TS3 triumphs in quantity, but not everything is of the best possible quality, especially compared to TS2, many features like business, apartments and restaurants left a lot to be desired. There were some things I think TS3 did better. Unique personalities is one of them in my opinion.
TS4 has an insane amount of quantity when it comes to deco stuff, but lacks unique functional or gameplay objects. There's only one type of stairs, no bunk beds or sleeping bags, no pool tables or any type of single player arcade machine, no gambling objects, etc. Some objects have a decent quality, but for the most part quality has decreased compared to Sims 3, and even more so compared to Sims 2.
Animations don't lie:
Every single animation in The Sims 4 has been super simplified. Sims in 4 don't even touch objects when they interact with them. Look at the way they would use faucets when cleaning their hands in 2 and 3. In 4 everything happens via telekinesis or something. And let's not even talk about features from previous packs. Other than vampires, toddlers, holidays and restaurants, every feature is a huge let down compared to TS2 and 3. Businesses, apartments, festivals, pets, weather, etc.
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I tried to like The Sims 4 for what it is, but it's very difficult. I do enjoy building and CAS. But live mode? I just can't play for more than 1 or 2 hours without being bored to death. If Sims in 4 had a little bit more of personality. They feel more like dolls rather than virtual people and it takes me out of the game completely. Everything, from the way the phase through each other like ghosts, to the way they don't touch anything or interact with the world they live in, to the big pauses in between actions. There's just so much wrong with the game, I can't get into it.
I wrote some ideas for a possible Sims 5 on another forum. This is what I wrote:
The starting point should be The Sims 3: open world, create-a-style, traits story progression, with the same attention to detail TS2 has and the user-friendly tools of The Sims 4. Multitasking should be developed for the ground up. It's a good concept but it wasn't implemented all that well in The Sims 4.
What would you throw out?
Emotions. I think they don't work at all and there's no way to improve them.
Less emphasis on goals and aspirations.
What art style does your game go for? Realistic? Cartoony?
Neither and both. I think The Sims Medieval is the perfect balance between realistic and cartoonish. Definitely try to incorporate the best technology possible when it comes to lighting, shadows, shaders, AA, AF, etc. High-poly meshes (2K-10K for objects, 20K for Sims) and high quality textures (2K with high frequency for objects, 4K with high frequency for Sims). Animations should be done with motion capture technology. Over the top FXs should be kept to a minimum.
What is critical to have in the Base Game?
I think rain/fog should be in the base game. Laundry too as an opt-in feature. Same with cars, restaurants, basic stores (clothing, book and grocery) and nightclubs. All these features could be expanded later.
All life stages from TS2/3 with as many interactions and objects as possible (I'd try to recreate every object for babies and toddles that has appeared in previous Sims games).
All basic NPCs should be in the base game: burglar, firefighter, police officer, etc. All basic objects should be in the base game: dishwashers and trash compactors, video game consoles, laptops, piano, guitar, hot tub, spiral staircase, etc.
Pools, basements, pond tool, terrain tools, all common types of roof should be in the base game.
What would you save for Expansions?
Pets, University and most BIG features. Small pets like fish and rodents could be included in the base game, but cat, dogs and other big pets are too complex and difficult to be part of the base game.
Supernatural creatures / Life states other than ghosts.
What has been missing from the series and should be introduced?
Way too many things to even list, but off the top of my head:
BUILD/BUY:
- Walls shouldn't be ONE tile, but half a tile to allow for more creativity.
- Curved walls. All windows and doors should be made to function on curved walls.
- 7 floors and 5 basement levels by default. A cheat to have infinite levels for those with powerful machines.
- Split Leveling Tool. You can split a level as many times as you want and join all the different levels with stairs. Split levels don't count against the 7 level limit.
- 100% free object placement. No more SLOTS, every object can be placed on surface freely and it gets attached to the object underneath (though this feature can be disable for convenience).
- A tool to automatize tree/flora placement, you select an area, click and it auto places trees at a random distance. There's a slider to control how close to each other trees are placed.
CAS:
- Five traits per Sim. Zodiac signs that affect chemistry. Turn-ons and Turn-offs (since there's a Create a Style tool, you can choose a range of colors using hexadecimal or RGB codes to determine which hair/eyes your Sim prefers).
- Fatal flaws from The Sims Medieval return. You must choose a fatal flaw for every Sim teen or older.
- 3 heights per Sim: short, average and tall starting from teens onwards. A height slider sounds good but it's impossible to implement with our current tech.
- Both the Pull & Push System of The Sims 4 and an advanced mode with sliders for extra precision.
- Clothes can be layered, like in TS2 for PS2.
GAMEPLAY/GENERAL:
- Most of the resources should be spent developing good AI. What made TS2 the best of the franchise (objectively) was how rich and diverse its AI was. It should be taken one step forward and make them smarter than ever. Hire AI engineers and give them as many resources as they need to make a complex human-like AI. It'll be worth it in the end.
- Basic systems improved versions of previous games: chemistry (TS2), gossip (TS2+3), memories (TS2), moodlets (TS3), reputation (TS3). The more complex systems you account for, the more prepared you are in terms of developing a good engine. Other systems could be added later (a more complex fame system for example). Measures to avoid corruption like in TS2 should be taken.
- A hardcore mode for extra realism. You can't buy food from the fridge and bookcases have no books, you have to save money and buy everything at stores. Same with clothes. You only get the clothes your Sim has when you make them, everything else you have to buy, even your work clothes. Add also an option to DISABLE the hand tool in live mode so you can drag objects to your Sim inventory, you have to make them pick those objects up.
- TOGGLES. Hundreds upon hundreds of toggles that function on a per-save basis. Everything you can change now with XML mods, you should be able to change in-game to make the game function exactly as you want. You can also export settings to share or to load in another save. Important to add good descriptions so people know exactly what they're changing. 100% customizable life span (including length of pregnancy).
- Every career should have an exclusive reward item like in The Sims 2 AND some exclusive interactions like in 2 and 3 (and some careers in 4).
- Some active jobs at stores, restaurant (as chef/waiter/receptionist) and nightclub (bartender, DJ).
- All Service jobs can be played as active: maid, gardener, repair technician, exterminator and social worker. You are assigned a schedule every day and you have to go around town completing these tasks. You can't be promoted but can charge more for your service as your skills improve and you become more and more known (word of mouth).
Edited to add: heights such a big thing for me, I do not love all the same height, but maybe that is because I short myself
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You are just trying way too hard. How many Simmers are actually counting faces on their Sim objects? Come on, man. And for all of that "high quality" you claim is in Sims 3, the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful. The Sims 4 style is more uniform and I truly prefer it over Sims 3. Sims 3 is not visually consistent and it looks sloppy. I think that's the problem with trying to make a Sims game look too realistic and then putting weird-looking Sims into that environment. But that could also partly be the result of having two separate studios doing content. It's not streamlined.
As for the style tool, I will concede that it's definitely useful enough for build/buy, I will give you that. The customization for furniture makes a lot of sense when wanting to decorate, and the lack of a tool in Sims 4 is something that I see a lot of players struggle with because EA doesn't give enough options for matching furniture styles. Even Sims 2 gave better options there. So I agree with that. But for CAS, the style tool is superficial when the CAS itself is wanting. Make no mistake, things were sacrificed in order to have that tool in there. Look at the general Sim creation. It is so difficult to make a Sim with specific features, even Sims 2 body shop did a better job. And there are so few CAS meshes so the selection is way too limited. I didn't even use the style tool in CAS because what good is it if I can't even get a decent outfit to begin with? The color wheel was okay, but I actually would prefer a large swatch grid to choose from for any CAS item, which is what I'm hoping they do in the next iteration. Anyway, the last thing I'll say about CaSt is that it contributed to performance issues. If there is a Sims 5 in the future, I think they should return to the Body Shop idea and ship an external tool with the game for recoloring/retexturing so that it doesn't bog down performance. But make it smoother and easier to import/export creations.
Anyway, back to the original topic. As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me. They are valid. The world is way, way too overpriced, especially when hardly anything comes with it. I'm not a builder, so what use is having all of those lots? If you enjoy building in sims 3, maybe that cost is worth it for you, but that is ultimately subjective because what about all of the other players who don't? Seriously, the gold edition is the price of an expansion pack if I want to buy it. I can't reiterate that enough.
Furthermore, regarding price points on Stuff Packs, you have got to be kidding me. Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20. Even when I was happily playing Sims 2 I thought they were expensive for what they were. These Stuff Packs cost half of the price of an expansion pack! Surely, you can see how ludicrous that is. They were overpriced from the beginning. So one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price, plus include a little gameplay. Granted, not all Stuff Packs are created equal, but couldn't that be said of all of the Stuff Packs of previous games? I have found that Stuff Packs are generally reasonable for what we get, and if I feel that some are not worth my $10, I wait for a sale. But I'm satisfied with the new Stuff Pack model. The EPs are another thing entirely, but I'm not going to derail by going down that route, that's a whole other can of worms, lol. I'll just say that I think they are finally improving. Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs. You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?
You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered. That's fair. You don't think StrangerVille is worth your money. That's fair too. But that does not mean that StrangerVille is objectively worth less than Lucky Springs. That's coming from a place of personal bias.
As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag.
Sim Stuff by Pegasys
Lag for who I may ask? Not me as I have 6 systems capable of blowing Sims 4 out of the water. If you are saying low end systems that is great but for high end systems not so great. But that is something that was said today that may have lowenders nervous and in an way that may change Sims 4 going forward.
"the graphic textures are frequently mismatched and godawful."
That's factually incorrect. The Sims 3 has a consistent standard of mask size (250 pixels per square grid). What means is that a pattern (which can be 256 or 512 pixels) will be repeated 1 time per square grid. The Sims 3 doesn't really have textures. Objects have presets (pre-selected styles) but you can change them into whatever you want. I don't even know what you're talking about when you claim textures are mismatched. Textures are created dynamically in-game and it's up to you to select the patterns and colors you want. It cannot be mismatched unless you mismatch textures on purpose.
"As far as costs, I have presented what prices are showing for me."
And I have presented what prices are showing for me. They're equally as valid. Lucky Palms SE is cheaper than StrangerVille for me. The Gold Edition is only $4.5 US dollars more expensive. I already own Lucky Palms and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. It's one of the worlds I use the most, I love the way it looks, I love the amount of space I have to add community lots from other EPs, and I love the new gameplay added with the Gold Edition. The Casino has infinitely more value (in my opinion, of course) than StrangerVille's 2-hour linear storyline, 3 gameplay objects and a career (that has always been part of the base game, BTW) with 5 new interactions.
"Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 offered a bunch of superficial items and objects for $20."
No. Both Sims 2 and 3 offered a bunch of HIGH QUALITY items for $20. I could start breaking down the number of FUNCTIONAL items you get in each pack, which is less subjective than saying I prefer one or the other, but I let an image speak for itself. This is what you get in BB mode in the first Stuff Pack for each game:
It's not just about the quantity of items. You're also getting more functional objects, like beds; which, if you know anything about rigging and animations, you must know how difficult is to animate bed sheets. And both games, TS2 and 3, gives you more options when it comes to customizing furniture. Beddings in TS2, for example, all share the same textures, so you don't have to struggle to find the bed sheets you want unlike TS4, which has swatches combining both bed frames and bedding.
"one of the things that Sims 4 did right was change what we get for our $20 and reduce the cost of Stuff Packs to half the price"
You're paying what you're getting: lower price, for lower quality items. Do I have to keep bringing up the poor quality of meshes in The Sims 4? The fact that TS2's meshes have a higher polycount. A game released ten years before has higher quality meshes; let that sink in for a second.
"Game Packs, however, are a huge improvement for the customer. I don't see how that can be argued or denied, I really don't. We get a whole lot more now - we get a variety of things ranging from gameplay, CAS, build/buy, new ventures, worlds... and yes, we get experimental developments like StrangerVille. Game packs are meant to be optional, like Stuff Packs."
Except that they include content that had previously been part of expansions but you have to pay EXTRA money now.
- Spa day and dine out include features from The Sims 2 Open for Business and Bon Voyage. Meditation was a base game skill. Owning a restaurant is better in The Sims 2 OFB. You can even work as a chef, which Dine Out doesn't give you the option to do.
- Outdoor Retreat added a single destination to vacation, whereas Bon Voyage added three for $30 USD ($40 taking inflation into account).
- Jungle Adventures added a single location with a single adventure (only thing that changes is layout) for $20. World Adventures added THREE locations with dozens of quests and almost 40 tombs as well as the option to create your own through powerful triggers.
- Parenthood adds a tiny bit amount of gameplay compared to Generations for half the price (besides, Generation also adds an insane amount of gameplay objects like spiral stairs, bunk beds, sleeping bags, playground equipment, tree houses, etc, etc, etc).
- And I won't even talk about StrangerVille. I think everyone already knows what I think about that pack.
- Vampires is probably the only Game Pack that actually EXPANDED a feature from previous games and I think it was justified as its own separate pack. So out of 7 Game Packs, only one feels like it was worth to be released as a separate pack.
Stuff Packs, as I said many times, they mostly include gameplay items that would've been included in EPs in the past like buffet tables (base game), bowling alleys (Nightlife, UL), butlers (Superstar, Apartment Life, Late Night), slip 'n' slide (Generations), laundry (Ambitions), etc. And they barely add any new gameplay to justify these features being their own pack.
"You pick and choose what you want or will use in your game. Isn't that partly what the Sims is about?"
Except I didn't have to pick and choose in the past. Buying EPs would give me all the gameplay Stuff Packs and Game Packs have now. The only exceptions, as I said, are Vampires and Kids Room. The first actually expands a feature enough to be worth being its own pack; the second one has new gameplay (never featured in the series) and it actually has a good amount of replayability.
"You don't like Sims 4 because you prefer the things that Sims 3 offered."
I prefer the way Expansion Packs actually expanded the game in Sims 1, Sims 2 and Sims 3. EPs feel like they barely add anything new now. Why? Because a lot of content is being sold as separate packs.
@Pegasys
"the lots in StrangerVille were specifically designed to go with the story."
Oh, yeah... right. That's the excuse they're using now. Not even James Turner, aka The SimSupply, believed that excuse if you watch his reaction to the empty houses with SimGuruRomeo. I guess next time a game-breaking bug occurs they can use the old meme: "it's not a bug; it's a feature."
"As far as the number of faces in the objects, the Sims team is purposely keeping them lower to cut down on lag."
The same way they got rid of open world, create-a-style or a color wheel, story progression, complex simology like in 2, limit the amount of lots, etc. all to cut down lag???? What kind of game needs to do so many sacrifices to cut down? We're talking about a FACT and it's that objects in TS2 and 3, games released 10 and 5 years before TS4, have a higher polycount and their 2014 sequel.
In any case, rather than discuss point-by-point as it's rather pointless as you know what you like, and I know what I like, I will leave with this: in the end it is all subjective. I don't care how many polys, or specific objects came with previous packs. I prefer the visual style of Sims 4. And I prefer the sims in Sims 4. No amount of extra lots or textures or price-points will change that. And because of that I welcomed StrangerVille.
Sim Stuff by Pegasys
Watch the animations you posted, watch the difference between the sims 2 and the sims 3 for cooking - the sims from 3 just pull a bowl, cookware and utensils out of thin air; the sims from sims 2 opens the cupboards/draws and retrieves bowls, cooking utensils, cookware. The sims 3 cracks eggs onto a cutting board? The sims 3 money is taken from wallet if you don't have the ingredients, sims 2 you have to shop for your food.
Watch the animations of a sim in the sims 2 getting into a car vs the sims 3 getting into a car and ask how they managed to simplify them to such a degree, if they reused the same animations anyway. In the sims 2 they open the door, get in and close door, back out and drive away - in the sims 3 they magically appear in their car on the road.
The sims 2 had hair physics, a game from 2004, has moving hair that 2 newer games, working with better software and still couldn't manage. Those little touches - sims 2 children crying if they see their parents fighting which the parents could then console, you can dance with your children on your feet, cuddle on the couch; the interactions between sims, in sims 2 is much more complex and nuanced.
Fears, wants, personality, chemistry all replaced with moodlets in the sims 3, which only added to their robotic demeanor and lack of unique personalities. Sims in 2 were actually impacted by their personality traits and their memories, if a sim grew up bad it would affect their life; if people had opposite personalities "playful/serious" or "grumpy/nice" it was incredibly hard to make them friends. Sims 2 personality system would impact how a sim approached everything, down to showering. Sims 3 you gave them 5 traits which made most sims act interchangeably (unless it was something like evil) and they barely react to their experiences.
The sims 3 left out so many amazing aspects from the sims 2 that made the sims what it is, it barely qualifies for me. Comparing sims 3 to sims 2 is like comparing a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 to a pearl, sims 3 isn't in the same league.
I agree with some things you pointed out in the first part (restaurant/business system, animations, etc). The Sims 3 definitely simplified a lot of things and Store sets weren't as good as fully fledged EP features in 2. I'm still upset we never got a proper retail system (though retail in 4 isn't much better than the Savvy Seller collection).
However, I strongly disagree about personalities. Sims in 3 have more unique personalities, as traits give them more well definied behaviors (there are only 10 possible behaviors in 2 + combos, only determined by personality points below 3 and above 7). Wishes in 3 are better than wants. They are over 3000 unique wishes in 3 vs less than 500 in 2. Moodlets also give more personality to Sims, as they add temporary behaviors or complement actions happening on screen (as I explained before).
Chemistry is also much better in 3. In 2 chemistry/attraction only took three things into account: zodiac signs, aspiration and turn ons/offs. In 3, there are over a dozen of factors taken into account for attraction: skills (and bonus per level), careers (and career level), traits, occult types, celebrity status per level, zodiac signs, life time rewards, and EVEN some moodlets like: "Fresh Clothing, Minty Breath, Nice Nails, Smooth Skin, Squeaky Clean, Very Fresh Clothing, Eye Candy, Stylin', Stylin' Permanent, Suntanned." Whereas other moodlets actually decrease the level of attraction: "Garlic Breath, Grungy, Singed, Singed Electricity, Smelly, Sunburnt, Spray Tan Bad, Spray Tan Discolored, Spray Tan Uneven." There's no comparison. The Sims 2's chemistry system was extremely basic. *
The only two things TS2 did better when it comes to simology are: interests and memories. Memories in particular I believe were very poorly implemented in 3, though TS2's memory system was far from perfect (like having a memory for burning food or seeing roaches, super mundane things). I wish TS3 had actually improved on TS2's memory system like they did with chemistry.
You can say whatever you want about personalities, but the code doesn't lie. TS3's traits, moodlets, wishers and attraction system are factually superior than TS2 personality points, wants and chemistry.
* ETA: You can retune TS3 attraction system to do exactly what you want. You don't want zodiac signs to be taken into account, just set the kMatchingSignsBonus value to 0 in the ITUN file for attraction. TS2's chemistry system is VERY difficult to change and customize (partially hard coded). In fact, no one has been able to ADD new turn ons/off, only replace existing ones.
THIS. Sims 3's STUFF packs were 20 dollars AND didn't even include gameplay items. (Except High End Loft Stuff which had an electric guitar and aquarium.) I stand my ground--in every regard--Sims 4's price points and value are beyond superior to me!!
You can stand your ground all you want but it doesn't make you any less wrong. Sims 4 Stuff Packs include gameplay that would've been included in an EP in 3.
You aren't getting anything new for that price, you're getting objects that would've been included in a GP and now they're exclusive to a SP. In TS3, for example, you could get laundry or hot tubs in a variety of packs. If you want them in TS4, you must buy the specific packs that include that gameplay.
What you are getting is really low quality content, tons of deco and non-functional stuff, with a limited amount of swatches (in contrast to the unlimited customization of TS3) and a very low polycount for 2014 standards (TS2 and 3's assets have higher polycounts).
It's okay if you want to believe SPs in 4 are a better deal than in previous games, but I firmly believe you're getting less QUALITY content even if prices are half of what they were.
I won't be responding to any more posts about things that aren't related to the topic at hand: StrangerVille vs Lucky Palms. I don't want my thread to be closed for people who insist on derailing it with factless comparisons.
I personally don't care for desert worlds so that sums up how I feel about both aesthetically. That aside, I've always had a love-hate relationship with Sims 4 worlds. Some of them can be gorgeous and immersive - but that immersion stops when I have to start moving my sims to new worlds. I prefer to play in one world and I can't do that unless I stick to one or two families and that's just not how I enjoy playing The Sims. Because of this, I'll always appreciate the freedom and control that comes with Sims 3 worlds. In my current Sims 3 game I'm able to have my (7) families I'm rotating between with room for many generations to come and room for commercial venues, parks, and whatever else I want to have. This is my way of playing so something like that is important to me.
Despite me not liking desert worlds, I'd definitely say Lucky Palms works in my favor as far as allowing me to play the game the way I want to play. Strangerville is a neat little world, and I could possibly get some storytelling and screenshots out of it but I could never play in it because of how small the world is and my style of play.
That's absolutely true, objects in Stuff Packs are now separated from EPs, so they can charge you extra money, S3 EPs included tons of new gameplay, some didn't included worlds, like Seasons, which added half more gameplay that the sims 4 seasons included.
Everything that was said sparked from the conversation of Lucky Palms versus Strangerville. On your original post you were talking about how much money Store points were in your country. Lucky Palms was in The Sims 3 store. Naturally, the conversation evolved to the price of Sims 4 packs vs Sims 3 packs and value for money. You can't mention the word "factless" when we are talking about "opinions". In my personal opinion, Sims 4 packs have been a better overall value. I like Sims 4's style better. I think the hairs, clothes, build objects, and decorations are of higher quality to most Sims 3 items. The game is more visually appealing to me. I think Lucky Palms was very pretty world but was just outrageously priced versus the actual gameplay I gained. I am not a Sims 3 hater. I love the game and play it sometimes but just find Sims 4's art style and overall game more enjoyable. For the 20 dollar price tag, I feel Strangerville has given me more value than the regret I felt blowing 30 bucks on Lucky Palms at the time. That is my OPINION. You are free to have a differing opinion.
It was 47 DOLLARS??? Wow! That is more than I remember it. So glad we don't have a store system in 4. I much prefer the price points and DLC methods of 4!
You can't force us into ultimately agreeing that The Sims 3 is a better game. You clearly don't understand the concept of subjectivity and personal taste. Maybe things you value in a game are not the same things another person values. It all comes down to opinion and I don't understand why you seem to get so upset when people disagree with you.