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What can be done to fix sims themselves?

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  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,918 Member
    I'm not here during 3 days, so I won't be able to stay active. Thank's a lot for the support & please keep discussing. :) When I'm back I'll make a little post to summarise all the ideas until now. Thank's again & see you in 3 days!
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  • luvdasims55luvdasims55 Posts: 14,645 Member
    @Jordan061102 Have a great weekend! B)
  • TS1299TS1299 Posts: 1,604 Member
    I may be annoying with my personalities but I think it's crucial for TS4 to keep it interesting at this point.

    1. Memory
    2. More impactful traits
    3. Better whims
    4. Decrease the impact of the happy emotion
    5. Better reactions (don't hug your enemy please)

    You can continue the list with your ideas. Thank's to contribute, if we want to see a change we have to make noise, it's our responsability. 🙏
    This are all great ideas, and my overall whishlist for the game. A huge change in depth of the base game can impact the pack themselves hugely.
    I had a post back that also give emphasis on this things should do to change it.
    1. Traits - The moat fundamental and foundation of personality. Sure seasons added liking of a particular tradition based on traits making them more unique, along side with other small features in packs(such as good sims rejecting coffin wohoo, and lazy sims not putting their laundry in the basket) but if the traits are lacking in the base game itself, it will never reach its full potential. Because ad we play we are playing mostly with the base game, just added extra features with packs, but the way you socialize, your sim react, etc. Will still depent on the base game traits. Hot Headed trait in The Sims 4 does not feel hot headed at all except those reandom moodlets and when targeted with mischief. Negative traits except jelousy and perhaps the unflirty trait, does not have deep consequences and imapct on game.

    If I had a sim who is Hot Headed, I should not have the same feeling when playing a Gloomy sim and a Cheerful sim.
    Traits are lacking variables or enough attributes. Look at Sims Wiki and compare the difference between the Genius trait in Sims 3 over Sims 4.

    2. Emotion System. This should be the second priorty when developing the game, and this system should be built of based on a Sims Traits. How would that work? The Moodlets themselves should not be based on a particular event but be based on a particular trait. What could that mean? It means that moodlets should be based on a particular trait to have a full impact on game play. A moodlet can be any emotion based on the Sims traits.

    This is the best example. Say you created a Hot Headed, Neat, Loner Sim. If a sim was in a room full of dirty surrounding, he/she should feel Angry i stead of Uncomfortable since Hot Headed was the sims Emotional Trait. If I had a slob, Genius, Kleptomanic Sim, then the sim should feel Focused when the surroundings is dirty, and be focused when the sim still something. Have a gloomy, Perfectionist, Geek Sim? Then when you play that sim the sim should feel sad everytime he/she crafted an awful work, and sad everytime he looses in a video game. Thise are just trait related obvious thing that emotion system should do. It should do based on traits not on the random emotion assigned to an emotion and based on traits.

    If they ever did that, Sims will feel much more unique, add that on the top of packs. You will play and feel a different sim each time you switch sims, and this alone could be the biggest innovation that The Sims 4 can do, as it adds depth not just on personality but based on the gameplay oppurtunities a player can do.

    And Lastly, the Overhauled whims and Aspirations. This two can be link to trait and emotion. Aspiration should not be goal oriented, but trait sim oriented. Which means the way of completing your sims aspiration is based on what they want their whims. If a sim wants to be a writer the player should follow the whims of the sims related to writing. Not only that but also random wants the sim have. Why? Because if your sim wants to be a writer, its not just being a writer that ansim want, but a happy and helathy life. So by providing it to the sim, and completing aspiration, players could see lifetime benifits for that sim, that will make the player feel rewarded for the challenge that they
    have done. And that is where traits and emotions comes into play. They will add challenge. First thing is Fear. Fear muat be added as it adds depth and consequences to the game. Fear like into The Sims 2, but better if they did this type oftrait and emotion system. A hot Headed sim who had gis fear happened, should have feel guilt and anger for himself for letting a particular event happen. A evil sim who aspires to be a writer will have the player try to give the sim a happy life by seeing other sims suffer(e.g. eating pufferfish) and with get famous, accomplishing that sim want to be infamous as possible, while trying to publish a book that he wanted to publish is going to be a hige challenge. It adds depth, and mich more uniqueness to a Sim that will make the player be encourages to trying out different traits to see different challenges in the game.

    Memories System will be my last straw. I don't need a screenshot for memories, I just need the memories system function the way they work on The Sims 2. With overhauled Traits, Whims, and Emotions Memories will add a much more deeper on personality. If a sim, for example encountered a negative memory/positive memory but is associated with a negative emotion, the sim will try to avoid a particular action that caused it. If a sim married but hot rejected at the altar, a sim will recieve a emotion based on trait(If the emotional trait is not negative then a sad emotion) such as a hot headed wife will be angey inatead of sad, then the sim will try to avoid marriage as possible and the player will have to direct the sim to marry to do it again. For example after being rejected, a sim will cry for nights before movong on. Or even better, to overcome a particular memory, the player will do a positive actions to help the sim move on, such as take the rejected sim to the night club with their sim, and as he/she becomes happy, he can move on trough a cariety of options/social actions. Then it will be a much more challneging with negative traits, such as gloomy sims may not move on at all or have a slow ppgase of time before moving on.

    Do this in The Sims 4, and I believe in my perspective that this will change how people play the game in Live Mode. The game will be Full of Emotions, full of life. This level of personality depth have come closer woth The Sims 2, and now by doing overhauls I think The Sims 4 is going to surpass how depth The Sims 2 has, especially since The Sims 4 had packs that was well received for its great impact on gameplay such as clubs, the vampire weakness, celebrity quirks, a potential hobbies pack, active careers and much much more. This is the greatest potential that I think The Sims 4 could achieve.

    This summarizes my opinions about the base game. My opinion still stands. If they did this changes, not just mine but also from the suggestions of others in this thread, then the game will change so big. Just imagine, how would clubs works now when the traits are much more deeper? How would romance works when there is turn off and turn offs, and smarter sims who remember if their husband or wife cheated? I agree with @Jordan061102, we should voice our opinions louder to the devs. If toddlers was made possible because we voiced our opinions so loud, then how much more is this. It will not only bring dpeth to our game, but it is possible that the game itself will attract much more people into the franchise. Devs, please change our sims to make them better.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Not knowing the first thing about game development, is that possible? A huge change of the basegame? Can they do that? Technically I mean?
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  • Remy_GenevaRemy_Geneva Posts: 142 Member
    edited March 2019
    One of the developers said something about turn ons/offs yesterday I think. It's in the thread about the developers on twitter. Basically someone said they want turn ons/off and the developer replied with "co-signed". Don't know if it means anything but hey. It will take more than that to give sims distinctive personalities but it would at least be a start.

    Here it is.

  • JaseJase Posts: 2,147 Member
    Personally, I feel sims in TS4 are improvements from TS3; however, they don't have the personality that sims from TS2 had. I enjoyed how TS2 sims appeared to be much more aware of their surroundings and events that were transpiring. It really does feel like the developers are working on improving the game because the game has improved dramatically since it's release.

    So, hopefully we can see improvements to the sim's behavior, memories, etc. :smile:
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,542 Member
    One of the developers said something about turn ons/offs yesterday I think. It's in the thread about the developers on twitter. Basically someone said they want turn ons/off and the developer replied with "co-signed". Don't know if it means anything but hey. It will take more than that to give sims distinctive personalities but it would at least be a start.

    Here it is.


    honestly as a player i find cars and true vacation more important to had than a feature that would not be of use to me since i prefer to keep my sims single and rather than adding something like turn on turn off they should focus more on fixing all the bugs and glitches from previous patch but thats my opinion as a player.
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  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited March 2019
    I think developers need to start by improving whats already in the game (traits) before adding anything new. One of the big ones is trait related buffs getting overwritten by happy decor moodlets. This needs to change. They need to go over these moodlets and amp their value because they are only giving +1 values. What kind of personality modification is that?

    Secondly Interests are a good one to add to the list.

    I often find that socialising in TS4 is a bore because the sims like talking about everything and anything regardless of traits. I think adding interests would make sims more interesting to socialize with because they have different likings. Sims with a high interest in cooking will like talking with other sims with the same interests and get bored when not. Interests could be set in CAS, or like in previous games they could be automatically set by the game based off of that sim's traits.

    Turn offs and turn ons would be a major one as well, because it would add a like-dislike based on sim's appearances and work status or skills. To make more interesting socialisation and emphasise game relationships.

    A whim rework would be something I'd be looking forward as well. Whims as they are, are.....useless. What happened to the "have a partner", "have a baby boy", "see the ghost of x sim", "workout for x hours", "buy new clothes", "become a vampire" etc wants? Aspirations in TS4 have become much more linear and whims have been left a drift. Sims feel like they have lost the freedom to want complex things, those are now fixed and set in aspirations you must follow a certain way.

    A relationship rework. Ok so I know that 4 years in they aren't going to add a long term relationship bar like in TS1/TS2 but at least fix the negative relationships. Sims with negative relationships do not hate each other, they will not autonomously perform negative interactions on each other nothing, zip They will continue hugging and chatting like nothing has happened like they haven't been fighting for the last 2 hours. The game just enforces sims to be good to each other and I hate that, it's very scripted and controlled.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited March 2019
    Jase wrote: »
    Personally, I feel sims in TS4 are improvements from TS3; however, they don't have the personality that sims from TS2 had. I enjoyed how TS2 sims appeared to be much more aware of their surroundings and events that were transpiring. It really does feel like the developers are working on improving the game because the game has improved dramatically since it's release.

    So, hopefully we can see improvements to the sim's behavior, memories, etc. :smile:
    Not in terms of having a personality. Looks and behaviour, sure, that's possible, that's personal preference. But they sacrificed personality in service of the emotions.
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  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited March 2019
    Has anyone noticed how hot headed sims are suppose to get angry when sims do mischief interactions on them and they do get an angry moodlet but somehow they still get positive relationship points? Does this make any sense to you?

    It's just so frustrating how traits do nothing in this game and how interactions aren't as complex as they should be. It's why it becomes boring. Anything goes as positive.
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  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,542 Member
    all i can say for me positive is the best to go i much prefer see sims happy than angry but to each there way of playing
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  • ArchieonicArchieonic Posts: 1,040 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Not knowing the first thing about game development, is that possible? A huge change of the basegame? Can they do that? Technically I mean?

    Yes. In fact, "technically speaking" they could even make open worlds. Productive? No, not by a long shot. See, revamps or core changes require either a rewrite of the mechanic and all hooks it may have (as in if an EP utilizes a base game function, that EP needs to be updated too), or a rewrite of part of the engine. If the engine (which is the case for something like open worlds just to put a wild example) has to be modified, specially something as integral as is the world, it'll be akin to building a section of that engine from the start. Then modify the game, then modify every mechanic introduced in the game. At that point you might as well create a sequel than modify it; much cleaner, safer, and productive.

    But something like traits, personalities and emotions do not require a rewrite of the engine, it may require some rewrites of the game's mechanics if they wanted to change it at its core. But if they wanted to add turn ons/offs, change how emotions influence sims and how they interact with traits, that does not need anything major and it's entirely doable.
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,542 Member
    Archieonic wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Not knowing the first thing about game development, is that possible? A huge change of the basegame? Can they do that? Technically I mean?

    Yes. In fact, "technically speaking" they could even make open worlds. Productive? No, not by a long shot. See, revamps or core changes require either a rewrite of the mechanic and all hooks it may have (as in if an EP utilizes a base game function, that EP needs to be updated too), or a rewrite of part of the engine. If the engine (which is the case for something like open worlds just to put a wild example) has to be modified, specially something as integral as is the world, it'll be akin to building a section of that engine from the start. Then modify the game, then modify every mechanic introduced in the game. At that point you might as well create a sequel than modify it; much cleaner, safer, and productive.

    But something like traits, personalities and emotions do not require a rewrite of the engine, it may require some rewrites of the game's mechanics if they wanted to change it at its core. But if they wanted to add turn ons/offs, change how emotions influence sims and how they interact with traits, that does not need anything major and it's entirely doable.

    answer this simple question what do you find wrong with the current system and with the emotion system in the sims4 for me i see nothing wrong as a player with the current system of emotion system if i went to know what mood my sims are i just look at the color of the emotion around there picture.
    If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery



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  • LadyKynLadyKyn Posts: 3,594 Member

    answer this simple question what do you find wrong with the current system and with the emotion system in the sims4 for me i see nothing wrong as a player with the current system of emotion system if i went to know what mood my sims are i just look at the color of the emotion around there picture.
    Popping up in here real quick like~

    I think the majority of the thread itself speaks about what needs to be re hauled, tweaked and added in an attempt to give sims more of a rounded personality and depth. S'all well and good if you don't see there's any problem with it, but there are many that would like to see more in being able to feel like your sim is unique. From what attracts them and what doesn't to their favorite food and music or even a favorite hobby of theirs.

    I do like the emotion system, but it definitely needs a rehaul as it's not much of an emotion system if your sim just seems to be feeling happy majority of the time or it trumping certain emotions. Example like a death in your sims family, but a combo of a nicely decorated room + full needs + plus having a good meal? Completely trumps that. So they don't stay in that negative emotion for too long unfortunately.
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Archieonic wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Not knowing the first thing about game development, is that possible? A huge change of the basegame? Can they do that? Technically I mean?

    Yes. In fact, "technically speaking" they could even make open worlds. Productive? No, not by a long shot. See, revamps or core changes require either a rewrite of the mechanic and all hooks it may have (as in if an EP utilizes a base game function, that EP needs to be updated too), or a rewrite of part of the engine. If the engine (which is the case for something like open worlds just to put a wild example) has to be modified, specially something as integral as is the world, it'll be akin to building a section of that engine from the start. Then modify the game, then modify every mechanic introduced in the game. At that point you might as well create a sequel than modify it; much cleaner, safer, and productive.

    But something like traits, personalities and emotions do not require a rewrite of the engine, it may require some rewrites of the game's mechanics if they wanted to change it at its core. But if they wanted to add turn ons/offs, change how emotions influence sims and how they interact with traits, that does not need anything major and it's entirely doable.
    Thanks :) Well, here’s hoping... I’d be more interested in them putting time and money in that than in future packs myself. The question is, does this apply to people who are already playing and enjoying the game.
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  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 4,973 Member
    Probably most everything posted as there have been lots of excellent ideas. My big concern is the foundation (game engine). If it is one that is sand, not solid rock, then anything added will simply come crashing down in a ruinous heap. I must admit there are many times I wish that EA would just cut the game loose and let the modders take over. They seem to have a much clearer idea of what needs to be done and how to do it than EA does.
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,542 Member
    my answer is if you need something sometime for some players even if its not a feature i am open to better personas for sims the best answer is to create a mod that will fix your game because at this point in time if the sims5 is in the work might not see said feature return
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  • LiELFLiELF Posts: 6,439 Member
    I love this thread. <3

    Sim personalities have been my main concern for a long time. I feel that no matter what kind of DLC is added, the game always has this background feeling of being incomplete, and the gameplay itself has a lingering shallowness that sometimes makes it hard to pinpoint what the actual problem is.

    Now, I do like playing Sims 4, and there are definitely certain packs that have contributed a world of difference to my enjoyment of the game. But my engagement still feels like it wears out more quickly than it should. And I really believe that it's because the Sims just don't feel like they have a lot of individuality or deep, personal drives. This is disheartening because a Sims game is supposed to be, first and foremost, about the Sims themselves. I feel that really detailing and adding to each Sim's uniqueness should be the top and continuing priority of any Sims iteration. It's a game about these virtual beings, and so these beings need to be believable and diverse. I know that the devs have been doing a great job in continuing to add to the physical and cultural diversity of our Sims, but why doesn't it feel like they are giving equal importance to character diversity?

    So here are some top things that I, personally, would like to see brought into the game to help fix this feeling of insignificance of my population:
    • A Fear emotion and individual Fear choices. This is something that I still can't believe was overlooked for game release. They chose to make the Sims 4 heavy on emotional gameplay but left out the entirety of a spectrum of a very common and main human emotion. Fear should have at least been added in by now. I would even say it's more important than toddlers because it is a basic part of any person's psychological makeup. Fear, Anxiety, Phobias, Dread.... these things should have been implemented in this game from the start. Every time we get new content where Fear would play a huge part, like Vampires, Jungle Adventures, StrangerVille, or anything that might cause a Sim anxiety, I feel this large, glaring absence. And I notice it every single time they release a trailer that shows Sims expressing Fear or trepidation and I just want to tear my own eyeballs out in frustration because it's all smoke and mirrors and doesn't even exist. Our Sims don't even know minor fears, like fear of failure, or that their children won't do well in school, or that they'll be rejected by a crush. It's so essential to the natural development of a person that it's just ludicrous to be forgotten for so long.
    • Flaws. My God, I need my Sims to have more flaws. I don't even use the rewards store hardly at all because everything our Sims do is automatically rewarded. It's like they get a happiness trophy for merely existing. Why don't we have something similar to the Rewards store that allows us to pick and choose things that inhibit our Sims? This is also something that should be in basic character creation by now. We should be able to choose traits and separate (optional) Flaws, so our Sims don't feel like they are all Mary Sues in someone's Fan Fiction.
    • Attraction preferences. Why we didn't get something like this in City Living or Get Together is just weird to me. My Sims feel like they have no discrepancies for a potential date. They'll take anyone, of any age, of any body type, of any career, of any gender, of any hair color, of any style, of any attitude, etc. I'd really love to be able to make a skinny Sim who prefers big partners, or someone who only dates vegetarians, or another who seeks out older, rich, successful Sims. Having a variety of choices to distinguish these preferences would go a really long way in even simple gameplay. Imagine taking a Sim out to a club and watching others interact and reject or gravitate toward each other while you search for someone who meets your criteria. This little bit of realism would bring a lot of entertainment.
    • General preferences. Since Traits don't seem to make a whole lot of difference, how about being able to choose a few things that our Sims like or dislike in their daily lives? Maybe one Sim loves to watch TV, wear purple, and hates shabby decor. Meanwhile, their roommate hates TV, but loves to read and gossip to other Sims. Being able to make these kinds of selections would help our Sims really come alive and feel like individuals with differences and compatibilities. Sometimes it's just little things like these that make the game more immersive.

    I keep hoping that something is in the works to help embellish and bring to life the personalities of our Sims. Because if this game continues through its life without ever adding distinguishing characteristics or fulfilling the emotional spectrum, I feel that the Sims 4 will always be seen as generally mediocre and incomplete, compared to its predecessors. And what kind of influence would that have if we get a Sims 5? I hate to say it, but I know it would certainly damage my own confidence in a successor.

    So please, devs... please give our Sims that much-needed diversity that is long overdue.
    #Team Occult
  • ArchieonicArchieonic Posts: 1,040 Member
    Archieonic wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Not knowing the first thing about game development, is that possible? A huge change of the basegame? Can they do that? Technically I mean?

    Yes. In fact, "technically speaking" they could even make open worlds. Productive? No, not by a long shot. See, revamps or core changes require either a rewrite of the mechanic and all hooks it may have (as in if an EP utilizes a base game function, that EP needs to be updated too), or a rewrite of part of the engine. If the engine (which is the case for something like open worlds just to put a wild example) has to be modified, specially something as integral as is the world, it'll be akin to building a section of that engine from the start. Then modify the game, then modify every mechanic introduced in the game. At that point you might as well create a sequel than modify it; much cleaner, safer, and productive.

    But something like traits, personalities and emotions do not require a rewrite of the engine, it may require some rewrites of the game's mechanics if they wanted to change it at its core. But if they wanted to add turn ons/offs, change how emotions influence sims and how they interact with traits, that does not need anything major and it's entirely doable.

    answer this simple question what do you find wrong with the current system and with the emotion system in the sims4 for me i see nothing wrong as a player with the current system of emotion system if i went to know what mood my sims are i just look at the color of the emotion around there picture.

    You ask me to answer a "simple" question, well that isn't at all a simple question unless you want me to say "They suck" and that's it. Here's why:

    Emotions behave like temporary buffs instead of emotions. You can have a sim sad because his dog just ran away, like 5 minutes ago. Then he walks into his kitchen which is full of nice decor and suddenly he is no longer sad, he's actually happy. Uh? A sim can become flirty, confident, angry, sad, happy within a span of minutes via manipulation. There's no emotional inertia, there's no long lasting impacts of previous events. Then traits. I have a genius sim, and he gets a few unique (not so unique same looping social animation) social interactions and a random "Focused" moodlet. That's shallow. Hot-headed sims get a random angry buff, but what do they do when they are angry around other sims? Well they might as well hug their enemy. About the only thing that gives out what emotion a sim is feeling if you are not controlling them is the walking style and the idle facial expression. When they start socializing, nope none of that. I much rather get quality and depth in one of the features that they claimed to be ground-breaking, not some color to look at.
  • izecsonizecson Posts: 2,875 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Has anyone noticed how hot headed sims are suppose to get angry when sims do mischief interactions on them and they do get an angry moodlet but somehow they still get positive relationship points? Does this make any sense to you?

    It's just so frustrating how traits do nothing in this game and how interactions aren't as complex as they should be. It's why it becomes boring. Anything goes as positive.

    Not noticing, my sims is hotheaded and he hated being pranked and lost a relationship point to the prankers.
    ihavemultiplegamertags
  • sazzieJsazzieJ Posts: 150 Member
    everything has pretty much been covered but ill add my two cents anyway :smiley:

    1) as far as im concerned, all traits may as well be removed. it doesnt matter what i choose they will act, behave, and respond the same. i mentioned this on another thread but i find it preposterous that my active sim does not gain fun without the gym rat trait. all the active trait seems to do is give a tense moodlet based on the last time they exercised. thats just aweful programming IMO and i have zero knowledge of programming.

    2) id love a trait randomiser button.

    3) whims are pointless given its based on superficial wants. dont have x item buy it. bought said item or moved into a house with a pool doesnt matter buy x item again. leave the lot, once more to buy said item. its pointless and very rarely do i fulfill these whims as, again i stated on another thread, whims are marked in game as: "whims are things ur sim wants to do but u dont have to", well IMO whims were an afterthought.

    4) i have no idea how memories work in this game and i tried to find the lesson for it (i do wear glasses and may have missed it) but couldnt; same for screenshots. strangerville had some great faces pulled and the screenshot lesson didnt even have the default button for it ..... im pretty sure it was advertised that our sims were able to remember previous events and react accordingly. never have i felt or seen it to be true. never.

    5) their personalities should be made up by a combination of elements from sims 1 2 and 3. from sims 1: the points that were randomly assigned into all the topics a sim could talk about (which if needed could be influenced by buying magazines) and points into cleaning etc (i cant remember the other options), from sims 2 the attraction and zodiac system (again, been a while and memory is hazy) where i can pick specific things about other sims my sim likes, blonde bearded and buff? yasssss queen!~ too much make up? eugh no ty. ur a virgo? awesome, ima scorpio!!! from sims 3, while just there, the likes of music colour and food which can be expanded on to include tv drink and hobby and as mentioned influence a sims autonomous behaviour and give a buff

    6) the emotion system needs to be overhauled. there are somethings that shouldnt be overruled no matter how nicely decorated the house is, how good the meal is, or by certain trait buffs. i feel deaths of close friends and family should be the dominant feeling for one example. i also dont like how wildly the emotions will cycle through each other: tired from low quality bed in bedroom, happy in hallway, focused in lounge room, flirty in bathroom, focused coz walked back into lounge room, happy again coz walked back into hallway and tired again coz went outside. its too much and at times exhausting trying to keep up. a fear emotion is needed, tense is good for some situations but shouldnt cover things that would normally be considered a fear response, for example thunderstorms. once the traits that stop the tense and embarrassed moodlets are purchased my sims are basically pleasentville sims.

    7) autonomy. i feel these issues are tied in with the lack of trait depth. a bookworm should read a book through to the end and then choose a new book to read over playing video games or watching tv. my creative sims should be able to play an instrument or paint, active sims workout, foodie sims watch the cooking channel etc etc. i know some simmers dont like the idea of sims autonomously learning skills so i feel a skill shouldnt just be on level one when a sim simply looks at the item that teaches it. like previous games level one needs to be earned too. to further prevent some discord from simmers, maybe autonomous activities will only be done for skill related things once that skill is learned. for example: sims wont play chess unless we made them learn logic first

    8) whats considered 'fun'. this is something i noticed, was irked by and briefly touched on above. exercise for active sims isnt fun until they have the gym rat trait. i had a tense sim once who refused to paint as they were too tense. im sure theres others but these are most fresh in my mind. im by no means 'active' but i consider going to the gym, and exercise fun, and if im tense or frustrated, i also consider painting or colouring adult colouring boxes fun. our sims should also consider things like that fun. why is it they can always play games, which can make some people very tense, but cant paint or exercise without certain conditions or traits to earn fun?

    9) romance. ill put this in its own category. in sims 4 i find it no challenge what so ever to raise romance. once married, regardless of romance/friend level, 99% of the time my sims will woohoo if i click on a bed and select it. compared to sims 3 where its a challenge to even get to that point and if u dont select it when there, it may not be there for the next selection. on romance, i dont want my sims autonomously flirting with every sim they talk to. i dont care if theyre flirty and being flirted with, have some class and loyalty and go put the flirt on ur husband/wife/partner. i also understand that some people have open relationships and thats great, if i could select in my games to do that i would for some relationships but until thats an option i dont want my sims romantic relationships autonomously wrecked. ill manually do it myself.

    as a side note, i dont play with any CC or mods and only play one house per save, if i want a new family i start a new save. i also start new saves for every EP/GP/SP that comes out and continue the family line by marrying in townies each generation and theyve all been the same. sims in this iteration feel like carbon copies of all other sims with cosmetic changes to make them 'different'. its disappointing but i hope changes come otherwise i hope the feedback is noted for a sims 5
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,918 Member
    edited March 2019
    LiELF wrote: »
    I love this thread. <3

    Sim personalities have been my main concern for a long time. I feel that no matter what kind of DLC is added, the game always has this background feeling of being incomplete, and the gameplay itself has a lingering shallowness that sometimes makes it hard to pinpoint what the actual problem is.

    Now, I do like playing Sims 4, and there are definitely certain packs that have contributed a world of difference to my enjoyment of the game. But my engagement still feels like it wears out more quickly than it should. And I really believe that it's because the Sims just don't feel like they have a lot of individuality or deep, personal drives. This is disheartening because a Sims game is supposed to be, first and foremost, about the Sims themselves. I feel that really detailing and adding to each Sim's uniqueness should be the top and continuing priority of any Sims iteration. It's a game about these virtual beings, and so these beings need to be believable and diverse. I know that the devs have been doing a great job in continuing to add to the physical and cultural diversity of our Sims, but why doesn't it feel like they are giving equal importance to character diversity?

    So here are some top things that I, personally, would like to see brought into the game to help fix this feeling of insignificance of my population:
    • A Fear emotion and individual Fear choices. This is something that I still can't believe was overlooked for game release. They chose to make the Sims 4 heavy on emotional gameplay but left out the entirety of a spectrum of a very common and main human emotion. Fear should have at least been added in by now. I would even say it's more important than toddlers because it is a basic part of any person's psychological makeup. Fear, Anxiety, Phobias, Dread.... these things should have been implemented in this game from the start. Every time we get new content where Fear would play a huge part, like Vampires, Jungle Adventures, StrangerVille, or anything that might cause a Sim anxiety, I feel this large, glaring absence. And I notice it every single time they release a trailer that shows Sims expressing Fear or trepidation and I just want to tear my own eyeballs out in frustration because it's all smoke and mirrors and doesn't even exist. Our Sims don't even know minor fears, like fear of failure, or that their children won't do well in school, or that they'll be rejected by a crush. It's so essential to the natural development of a person that it's just ludicrous to be forgotten for so long.
    • Flaws. My God, I need my Sims to have more flaws. I don't even use the rewards store hardly at all because everything our Sims do is automatically rewarded. It's like they get a happiness trophy for merely existing. Why don't we have something similar to the Rewards store that allows us to pick and choose things that inhibit our Sims? This is also something that should be in basic character creation by now. We should be able to choose traits and separate (optional) Flaws, so our Sims don't feel like they are all Mary Sues in someone's Fan Fiction.
    • Attraction preferences. Why we didn't get something like this in City Living or Get Together is just weird to me. My Sims feel like they have no discrepancies for a potential date. They'll take anyone, of any age, of any body type, of any career, of any gender, of any hair color, of any style, of any attitude, etc. I'd really love to be able to make a skinny Sim who prefers big partners, or someone who only dates vegetarians, or another who seeks out older, rich, successful Sims. Having a variety of choices to distinguish these preferences would go a really long way in even simple gameplay. Imagine taking a Sim out to a club and watching others interact and reject or gravitate toward each other while you search for someone who meets your criteria. This little bit of realism would bring a lot of entertainment.
    • General preferences. Since Traits don't seem to make a whole lot of difference, how about being able to choose a few things that our Sims like or dislike in their daily lives? Maybe one Sim loves to watch TV, wear purple, and hates shabby decor. Meanwhile, their roommate hates TV, but loves to read and gossip to other Sims. Being able to make these kinds of selections would help our Sims really come alive and feel like individuals with differences and compatibilities. Sometimes it's just little things like these that make the game more immersive.

    I keep hoping that something is in the works to help embellish and bring to life the personalities of our Sims. Because if this game continues through its life without ever adding distinguishing characteristics or fulfilling the emotional spectrum, I feel that the Sims 4 will always be seen as generally mediocre and incomplete, compared to its predecessors. And what kind of influence would that have if we get a Sims 5? I hate to say it, but I know it would certainly damage my own confidence in a successor.

    So please, devs... please give our Sims that much-needed diversity that is long overdue.

    I love it, you explained why this is such needed. The fear emotion is such a basic emotions that every humain beings experience, more than the dazed emotion.
    Flaws are also needed for more challenge, unlucky, lunatic, (eventho for the moment every sims seem to be lunatics lol) etc there's so much to do.
    Attractions and general preferences I don't have anything more to explain, that's so clear.
    Like you I hope Maxis will realize it.
    Archieonic wrote: »
    Archieonic wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Not knowing the first thing about game development, is that possible? A huge change of the basegame? Can they do that? Technically I mean?

    Yes. In fact, "technically speaking" they could even make open worlds. Productive? No, not by a long shot. See, revamps or core changes require either a rewrite of the mechanic and all hooks it may have (as in if an EP utilizes a base game function, that EP needs to be updated too), or a rewrite of part of the engine. If the engine (which is the case for something like open worlds just to put a wild example) has to be modified, specially something as integral as is the world, it'll be akin to building a section of that engine from the start. Then modify the game, then modify every mechanic introduced in the game. At that point you might as well create a sequel than modify it; much cleaner, safer, and productive.

    But something like traits, personalities and emotions do not require a rewrite of the engine, it may require some rewrites of the game's mechanics if they wanted to change it at its core. But if they wanted to add turn ons/offs, change how emotions influence sims and how they interact with traits, that does not need anything major and it's entirely doable.

    answer this simple question what do you find wrong with the current system and with the emotion system in the sims4 for me i see nothing wrong as a player with the current system of emotion system if i went to know what mood my sims are i just look at the color of the emotion around there picture.

    You ask me to answer a "simple" question, well that isn't at all a simple question unless you want me to say "They suck" and that's it. Here's why:

    Emotions behave like temporary buffs instead of emotions. You can have a sim sad because his dog just ran away, like 5 minutes ago. Then he walks into his kitchen which is full of nice decor and suddenly he is no longer sad, he's actually happy. Uh? A sim can become flirty, confident, angry, sad, happy within a span of minutes via manipulation. There's no emotional inertia, there's no long lasting impacts of previous events. Then traits. I have a genius sim, and he gets a few unique (not so unique same looping social animation) social interactions and a random "Focused" moodlet. That's shallow. Hot-headed sims get a random angry buff, but what do they do when they are angry around other sims? Well they might as well hug their enemy. About the only thing that gives out what emotion a sim is feeling if you are not controlling them is the walking style and the idle facial expression. When they start socializing, nope none of that. I much rather get quality and depth in one of the features that they claimed to be ground-breaking, not some color to look at.

    The bold part explain the whole problem with TS4, all in the look, nothing in the gameplay.
    @Jordan061102 Have a great weekend! B)
    Thank you! :smile:

    One of the developers said something about turn ons/offs yesterday I think. It's in the thread about the developers on twitter. Basically someone said they want turn ons/off and the developer replied with "co-signed". Don't know if it means anything but hey. It will take more than that to give sims distinctive personalities but it would at least be a start.

    Here it is.


    I hope it means they are workin' on that. But we need more, only turn on/off won't be enough to fix the sims themselves.
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • Pamtastic72Pamtastic72 Posts: 4,545 Member
    edited March 2019
    Lopsided relationships would add a lot, person A doesn't necessarily love/like person B as much as person B loves/likes person A. Also people who get married aren't always madly in love equally with each other, and sometimes one person in a relationship sours on it while the other is all in still and it would be nice to be able to play those stories out. I would love the options to propose or get married even if there is low friendship or zero romance so that arranged marriages could be played out more realistically without my having to cheat those things up and down. It would be fun to play couples where one is still madly in love but the other has one foot out the door so to speak, or friendships where one person is all in, and the other person is like meh, he/she is okay.

    Because the even Steven system we have right now isn't at all realistic and it robs relationships in game of depth.
    Post edited by Pamtastic72 on
  • Jordan061102Jordan061102 Posts: 3,918 Member
    edited March 2019
    Summary of March 2 until March 10

    Likes and dislikes
    • Based on the club activities system
    • Gain it based on what your sim actually does : for some hobbies such as cooking, computer etc you can't gain interest on this except if you have the foodie & geek traits otherwise every sims will love the same activities.
    • The possibility to choose them or make them random with a toggle
    • They should autonomously do their favorite hobbies but it shouldn't be too forced, they should do it when all their needs are full
    • Those preferences should act on their relations, they can discuss those interests with other sims but those who don't like the same things shouldn't agree (like what you did with wheater preferences in Seasons)
    • When you go back home they should do their hobbies instead of watching TV, playing chest etc (only when their needs are full of course)
    • Hobbies should be fun for our sims, like in real life
    • A sim should gain boost on activities he/she likes (if it is a skill) however if this is something a sim doesn't like it should be harder for him to developp this skill

    Whims
    • They should be related to what the sim is doing at that time, not random and illogical (sometimes I have sims who want to walk their dog after it died)
    • Related to their traits & what they are living
    • Whims according to their aspirations

    Turn on/off
    • The physical ones should affect the relationships & interests should affect friendships
    • Preferences on jobs, hair/eyes color, traits, body type, age, gender, clothes etc
    • Married sims shouldn't always be in love, the relationship should decrease with time, evolution of traits, interests etc

    Emotions
    • Decrease the impact of the happy emotion!
    • The ''fine'' emotion should be the base one instead of the happy one
    • Stop the lunatic behaviours : when a sim dies they shouldn't be sad and right after happy cause the house is well decorated & the food was great
    • Auras should be less strong
    • Good balance between emotions ex : a sad sim > he/she didn't eat > stays sad instead of uncomfortable > needs to sleep > becomes very sad instead of very uncomfortable. Make something like the meaningful stories mod!
    • Real gameplay instead of temporary buffs
    • Sims shouldn't flirt with everyone when they are flirty
    • A fear emotion

    Traits
    • More slots and a ''random traits'' button
    • Impactful traits & special interactions : only geek sims should always play computer, loner sims shouldn't talk to everybody in the street & they should avoid people (eat at the other table etc), evil sims should autonomously do means interactions etc.
    • More special interactions instead of moodlets. A bookworm should read faster, hate watching TV, gain more fun while reading, love reading to children etc. Lazy sims could have the interactions to lay on the sofa, eat chips on the sofa etc. Not just another ''discuss off'' recycled interaction
    • Every trait should have an opposite

    Memory
    • They should remember to who they are married, who was rude etc
    • Sim can be scared of relive a bad memory
    • They should remember big events

    Reactions, behaviours & relations
    • A fury and joy system : being mad at someone to the point where the sim can wish to see X dies and Y being fired etc, for the joy system it should be easier to build a friendship, the sim will accept pratically everything, give a lot of money etc. This system should be related to the memory.
    • Better reactions to death, cheat on, enemies etc
    • Reactions related to the traits
    • Parents should be more careful with their children : if they are hungry they should cook, put them to the bed etc.

    Wants & fears
    • They should be according to what happens in the life of a sim & the traits of the sim
    • It can have an impact on their emotions, for example a sim can have a breakdown if too many of his/her fears have been realized.

    Favorites food, drink, color
    • When a sim wear the color he/she likes, he should be happy (not a strong moodlet)
    • If his/her favorite drink/food is bad quality the sim should be angry/sad according to his/her traits

    Extra things
    • Improve the ''away system'' : sims shouldn't be eating breakfest at 9PM, they should fill their needs, do the activities they like, continue sleeping if it's late etc

    Wow it took me more than 1 hour to do this. I hope I didn't forget something important. I'm gonna try to do these summaries every Sunday if there's new ideas & I hope it will be useful for you & for the devs. If I make these summaries this is to help you devs, so please look at them & of course the amazing feedbacks in this thread. I'm sorry if there's any mistakes. Thank's again for the support simmers! :wink:
    Post edited by Jordan061102 on
    Lu4ERme.gif
  • Remy_GenevaRemy_Geneva Posts: 142 Member
    Summary of March 2 until March 10

    Likes and dislikes
    • Based on the club activities system
    • Gain it based on what your sim actually does : for some hobbies such as cooking, computer etc you can't gain interest on this except if you have the foodie & geek traits otherwise every sims will love the same activities.
    • The possibility to choose them or make them random with a toggle
    • They should autonomously do their favorite hobbies but it shouldn't be too forced, they should do it when all their needs are full
    • Those preferences should act on their relations, they can discuss those interests with other sims but those who don't like the same things shouldn't agree (like what you did with wheater preferences in Seasons)
    • When you go back home they should do their hobbies instead of watching TV, playing chest etc (only when their needs are full of course)
    • Hobbies should be fun for our sims, like in real life
    • A sim should gain boost on activities he/she likes (if it is a skill) however if this is something a sim doesn't like it should be harder for him to developp this skill

    Whims
    • They should be related to what the sim is doing at that time, not random and illogical (sometimes I have sims who want to walk their dog after it died)
    • Related to their traits & what they are living
    • Whims according to their aspirations

    Turn on/off
    • The physical ones should affect the relationships & interests should affect friendships
    • Preferences on jobs, hair/eyes color, traits, body type, age, gender, clothes etc
    • Married sims shouldn't always be in love, the relationship should decrease with time, evolution of traits, interests etc

    Emotions
    • Decrease the impact of the happy emotion!
    • The ''fine'' emotion should be the base one instead of the happy one
    • Stop the lunatic behaviours : when a sim dies they shouldn't be sad and right after happy cause the house is well decorated & the food was great
    • Auras should be less strong
    • Good balance between emotions ex : a sad sim > he/she didn't eat > stays sad instead of uncomfortable > needs to sleep > becomes very sad instead of very uncomfortable. Make something like the meaningful stories mod!
    • Real gameplay instead of temporary buffs
    • Sims shouldn't flirt with everyone when they are flirty
    • A fear emotion

    Traits
    • More slots and a ''random traits'' button
    • Impactful traits & special interactions : only geek sims should always play computer, loner sims shouldn't talk to everybody in the street & they should avoid people (eat at the other table etc), evil sims should autonomously do means interactions etc.
    • More special interactions instead of moodlets. A bookworm should read faster, hate watching TV, gain more fun while reading, love reading to children etc. Lazy sims could have the interactions to lay on the sofa, eat chips on the sofa etc. Not just another ''discuss off'' recycled interaction
    • Every trait should have an opposite

    Memory
    • They should remember to who they are married, who was rude etc
    • Sim can be scared of relive a bad memory
    • They should remember big events

    Reactions, behaviours & relations
    • A fury and joy system : being mad at someone to the point where the sim can wish to see X dies and Y being fired etc, for the joy system it should be easier to build a friendship, the sim will accept pratically everything, give a lot of money etc. This system should be related to the memory.
    • Better reactions to death, cheat on, enemies etc
    • Reactions related to the traits
    • Parents should be more careful with their children : if they are hungry they should cook, put them to the bed etc.

    Wants & fears
    • They should be according to what happens in the life of a sim & the traits of the sim
    • It can have an impact on their emotions, for example a sim can have a breakdown if too many of his/her fears have been realized.

    Favorites food, drink, color
    • When a sim wear the color he/she likes, he should be happy (not a strong moodlet)
    • If his/her favorite drink/food is bad quality the sim should be angry/sad according to his/her traits

    Extra things
    • Improve the ''away system'' : sims shouldn't be eating breakfest at 9PM, they should fill their needs, do the activities they like, continue sleeping if it's late etc

    Wow it took me more than 1 hour to do this. I hope I didn't forget something important. I'm gonna try to do these summaries every Sunday if there's new ideas & I hope it will be useful for you & for the devs. If I make these summaries this is to help you devs, so please look at them & of course the amazing feedbacks in this thread. I'm sorry if there's any mistakes. Thank's again for the support simmers! :wink:

    You did a great job with this Jordan, summing up everyone's ideas. We should keep this going though, so the developers can actually see how we feel about the games current state.
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