I don't think they are. In all the other games evidence of the next game in development has been spotted by someone's eagle eye not long after the launch of the previous. This time nothing has been heard at all, even in "camps". Either they have their delegates locked down harder than ever or it's not yet happening.
Would you care to make a guess of what they are building since we know they are building a new Sim title?
I don't think they are. In all the other games evidence of the next game in development has been spotted by someone's eagle eye not long after the launch of the previous. This time nothing has been heard at all, even in "camps". Either they have their delegates locked down harder than ever or it's not yet happening.
Would you care to make a guess of what they are building since we know they are building a new Sim title?
Another EP maybe?
Thank you. It's what I've believed all along. When asked what word would describe the Sims 4 in 2019 I believe Grant said surprises. I think he was referring to something never before seen in the game which may have required additional new talent. Time will tell.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
who wants to play a pack that is messed up like that?
Well obviously someone is playing as they have several more years of content planned. Also the discussions in General, Expansion, Stuff, and Game pack forums and Stories and Legacies indicate that plenty of people are playing. Maybe they all play like me?
In other words don't play the active careers but just use the stuff?
Maybe? I'm just now playing the Scientist career and GTW was released in 2015. Still haven't tried the Doctor or Detective career. I'm a slow player.
According to bug lists, it's broken, and for me at near level ten (can't remember ) something I needed to find never did show up outside, spent weeks trying to find it..borked. And the suspects in detective career still do not show up for two years now. Doctor Career was broken last time I played and still see complaints about it from over a year ago, patients not going to the right beds or getting into bed etc. and other problems.
Feedback was a good place to find out what was broken still yet, but no more since they hid all that over on Answers.com.
They fixed the Detective career a few patches ago. I played it to level 10 this year. My sim never had trouble finding suspects.
Yes there are many bugs in the game but the majority of them are minor and fairly easy to work around (or fixable with mods, and yes I will use mods to fix bugs). I don't encounter bugs with every play through. However, if I do, I use "Me Too" and even report them on AHQ.
In the 2000+ hours I have played Sims 4 I can count actual crashes on one hand, and I play on a laptop.
I have never had a save become unplayable or go bad, and I have played saves for many generations and rotated through many households.
Maybe, I'm just lucky?
No, not lucky, I'm wondering would you play TS4 without your mod fixes? Then you might be pressing more Me Toos.
I just checked and right now I actually don't have any "bug fix" mods installed - I only have 8 mods installed; they are for updating gameplay to make things more reasonable/realistic, such as LittleMsSam's "Personal Objects" mod which makes it so visiting sims won't play on my sims computer, which always drove me up the wall. Another example is Cool1's "Friendlier Ask to Leave" -- now my sims won't act so rude when asking guests to leave.
There is nothing wrong with any type of mod, however, I do wonder how many would still be playing if that huge Mod (not for bugs) was never invented. It controls the game in a way that does (as I stated many times) back into more of the older games' type game play. Because it was clear early on, none of us loved the culling, the drop in relationships (which was patched a few times, too) the removal of Sim friends from relationship panels, the lack of a comprehensive family tree, (still a problem) and the decor buffs on the road to Perma Happyville, or the population limits, or the spawning of a new townie each time we turned around. I have to wonder if they even remember how the vanilla game works anymore. If they did they might be here in this thread along with me wondering why we would want three more years of that.
I know I wouldn't play the game at all without mods. I have like 500mb of just game *mods* not cc. I can't stand the game vanilla.
I don't think they are. In all the other games evidence of the next game in development has been spotted by someone's eagle eye not long after the launch of the previous. This time nothing has been heard at all, even in "camps". Either they have their delegates locked down harder than ever or it's not yet happening.
Would you care to make a guess of what they are building since we know they are building a new Sim title?
Another EP maybe?
Why would they want a different team for a triple A IP just to build another EP? They were even looking for a new Creative Director and head honcho to help develop a new title. That wouldn't be about a new EP but a new Sim game.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I don't think they are. In all the other games evidence of the next game in development has been spotted by someone's eagle eye not long after the launch of the previous. This time nothing has been heard at all, even in "camps". Either they have their delegates locked down harder than ever or it's not yet happening.
Would you care to make a guess of what they are building since we know they are building a new Sim title?
Another EP maybe?
Why would they want a different team for a triple A IP just to build another EP? They were even looking for a new Creative Director and head honcho to help develop a new title. That wouldn't be about a new EP but a new Sim game.
I could certainly be wrong, but I believe IngeJones just can't "let the cat out of the bag".
It's going to take a long time to develop the next iteration of the sims franchise. So it would make sense that they would start working on it now to have enough time to have it ready for release by the time they are done with TS4. Just a guess on my part, but it makes sense to me.
A game as huge as The Sims wouldn't make sense to put too much into the base game.
Compared to other video games, The Sims is a very light simulation. They could build something that is so so much more than what they've already built. Plus this is the only game whose requirements to run balloon with DLC, that's not a common practice, which once again suggests a bad toolkit or a novice team when it comes to optimization. Just because EA doesn't innovate, does not mean that it is impossible to do so, or would make no sense to do so.
This is about The Sims not about other games which are different genres and overall like comparing apples and oranges. But if you really want to compare other video games then that's fine. However, you don't provide any explanation or evidence to back up your thesis.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents. Such as the simulation itself is no longer just one lot at a time to imitate liveliness but actually simulates the whole neighborhood at once with all Sims including pets and seasons with impressive weather effects. All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
There's a mod for TS3 called NRass Tagger and I get to see all the Sims from the LIVE map view and everything that they are doing within the neighborhood. All of them are spread out in various community lots or working, or in school, or at home, etc. The town feels alive because it actually is than imitating an illusion to appear so by loading only one lot or small play area at a time like TS/TS2/TS4. Out of the rest in the franchise, TS3 is the only Sims game to date truly considered a life simulator based on the gameplay mechanics.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine. Meaning, everything that your Sim goes through in their virtual lives are recorded and they remember. This is easily noticed when a player becomes observant of how the Sims are interacting with the world and Sims around them and will be able to see the intelligent and life-like A.I. Sims are also very different from each other, not just by their personality, but also in how they develop based on their learning A.I. algorithm. There is a lot more depth than TS2 in that department and from what I understand and observe is the best simulation I have ever witnessed in a video game. And I have been playing video games since I was 4 or 5 years old. Though, to be fair, I haven't played every single game to ever release.
Concerning TS4, it's clear that game was not meant for any of the Sims fans and is overly slapdash. I'm not saying it's impossible for EA to create the best Sims game with more innovative features, stunning optimization, etc using TS3 as a base I would hope but no way am I holding my breath. However, given the track record...uh, why would anyone believe The Sims would go back to being The Sims?
Unrelated I suppose, but there's a common saying that true hardcore fans are the ones that stick around no matter what. However, I believe the opposite. True hardcore fans won't take part in something they deem is unfair and/or lost its way just for the sake of holding on to something even when it's mediocre. Because when you really love something, you let it go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Unless you are talking about TS3 while using NRaas to make the town come alive, I cannot relate here as without that mod suite, my towns were stale and dead with non-sense progression. And as much as I love open world, open world does not make a life simulator a life simulator. A life simulation is about simulating life, and the scope at which that happens doesn't necessarily tag it as a life simulator or not. The Sims 2 captured depth, real depth. Without depth + open world you end up with a neighborhood simulator, and that balance between depth/complexity and world simulation was lost in TS3. Memories in TS3 and for that matter TS4 pale in comparison to TS2 IMO, the way the game stored data from memories seemed much more impactful in TS2. Reactions and animations from TS2 also seemed much more alive and sims were reactive to their environment.
About minimal to no lag, I never experienced such thing in TS3. This goes further than "get a good PC". My rig consists of an i5 4690k @ 3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX 1080 ti, SSD. It still lagged with all DLCs, no matter if I used mods or not to try to clean it up. The game's engine at its core was never optimized. The coding of the game was a complete mess, and no matter how good a PC is, if a game or its engine are not up to the task, it will never perform fluidly. I played TS3 for 7 years and tried everything ever posted, nothing. The closest it got to fluid was the first sim-weeks of a brand new save, then it went south real fast.
I probably consider TS3 my favorite to date, but I will say that I do not consider it objectively the best at what it did. To me, it became a "jack of all trades", without doing anything properly or in-depth. In fact, despite loving the iteration, I consider it overall mediocre without the use of mods.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
These four screenshots were autonomous Sim behavior among many.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one. Come on, TS4 doesn't even have an open world if that was the case. Let alone, you just mentioned there are not any animations for vehicles in the way that TS2 provides for TS3. Why? Because the game engines are different, therefore, possess their own limitations to what can and cannot be done.
Besides, one of the SimGuru's already explained why they made that decision and it was because in order to have proper car animations the garage/parking space always had to be fixed within a specific layout which meant no creativity in building the garage wherever you want. Plus, because the whole neighborhood is being simulated at once it would put too much strain on performance when and if Sims would get stuck. Limitations is not anything new but that's what sequels are for or was for.
Certain rabbithole's did annoy me such the grocery store, movie theater, spa, bookstore, diner, bistro, etc. I also preferred shopping for clothes and the household having a wardrobe available for the same age group and gender. I'm fine with the work related RH's (Love the professions too) but I always loved the open shopping aspect in TS/TS2. However, they at least tried to make up for it whether it was through EP's or Store Content.
Because of how the game programs Role Sims, It's Business Time Industrial Oven, cannot function correctly consistently or so I haven't figured out a workaround without using a mod to prevent the constant switching. But it's still better to have than nothing at all.
TS3 memory system I'm referring to has nothing to do with the Generations feature and was something already implemented into the A.I. from the game engine. It does not display on the U.I. Which is why some might be confused as to why their Sim(s) are acting a certain way towards another Sim. Many scenarios play out off-screen too so good luck piecing all the puzzles together to see the whole picture. However, for me, that's a part of the intrigue and fun of it. All the Sims lives and stories are intertwined and connected to each other in one big interactive soap opera.
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
A game as huge as The Sims wouldn't make sense to put too much into the base game.
Compared to other video games, The Sims is a very light simulation. They could build something that is so so much more than what they've already built. Plus this is the only game whose requirements to run balloon with DLC, that's not a common practice, which once again suggests a bad toolkit or a novice team when it comes to optimization. Just because EA doesn't innovate, does not mean that it is impossible to do so, or would make no sense to do so.
This is about The Sims not about other games which are different genres and overall like comparing apples and oranges. But if you really want to compare other video games then that's fine. However, you don't provide any explanation or evidence to back up your thesis.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents. Such as the simulation itself is no longer just one lot at a time to imitate liveliness but actually simulates the whole neighborhood at once with all Sims including pets and seasons with impressive weather effects. All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
There's a mod for TS3 called NRass Tagger and I get to see all the Sims from the LIVE map view and everything that they are doing within the neighborhood. All of them are spread out in various community lots or working, or in school, or at home, etc. The town feels alive because it actually is than imitating an illusion to appear so by loading only one lot or small play area at a time like TS/TS2/TS4. Out of the rest in the franchise, TS3 is the only Sims game to date truly considered a life simulator based on the gameplay mechanics.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine. Meaning, everything that your Sim goes through in their virtual lives are recorded and they remember. This is easily noticed when a player becomes observant of how the Sims are interacting with the world and Sims around them and will be able to see the intelligent and life-like A.I. Sims are also very different from each other, not just by their personality, but also in how they develop based on their learning A.I. algorithm. There is a lot more depth than TS2 in that department and from what I understand and observe is the best simulation I have ever witnessed in a video game. And I have been playing video games since I was 4 or 5 years old. Though, to be fair, I haven't played every single game to ever release.
Concerning TS4, it's clear that game was not meant for any of the Sims fans and is overly slapdash. I'm not saying it's impossible for EA to create the best Sims game with more innovative features, stunning optimization, etc using TS3 as a base I would hope but no way am I holding my breath. However, given the track record...uh, why would anyone believe The Sims would go back to being The Sims?
Unrelated I suppose, but there's a common saying that true hardcore fans are the ones that stick around no matter what. However, I believe the opposite. True hardcore fans won't take part in something they deem is unfair and/or lost its way just for the sake of holding on to something even when it's mediocre. Because when you really love something, you let it go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Unless you are talking about TS3 while using NRaas to make the town come alive, I cannot relate here as without that mod suite, my towns were stale and dead with non-sense progression. And as much as I love open world, open world does not make a life simulator a life simulator. A life simulation is about simulating life, and the scope at which that happens doesn't necessarily tag it as a life simulator or not. The Sims 2 captured depth, real depth. Without depth + open world you end up with a neighborhood simulator, and that balance between depth/complexity and world simulation was lost in TS3. Memories in TS3 and for that matter TS4 pale in comparison to TS2 IMO, the way the game stored data from memories seemed much more impactful in TS2. Reactions and animations from TS2 also seemed much more alive and sims were reactive to their environment.
About minimal to no lag, I never experienced such thing in TS3. This goes further than "get a good PC". My rig consists of an i5 4690k @ 3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX 1080 ti, SSD. It still lagged with all DLCs, no matter if I used mods or not to try to clean it up. The game's engine at its core was never optimized. The coding of the game was a complete mess, and no matter how good a PC is, if a game or its engine are not up to the task, it will never perform fluidly. I played TS3 for 7 years and tried everything ever posted, nothing. The closest it got to fluid was the first sim-weeks of a brand new save, then it went south real fast.
I probably consider TS3 my favorite to date, but I will say that I do not consider it objectively the best at what it did. To me, it became a "jack of all trades", without doing anything properly or in-depth. In fact, despite loving the iteration, I consider it overall mediocre without the use of mods.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
These four screenshots were autonomous Sim behavior among many.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
So, your computer is able to run the simulation as intended? I'm sorry, that's not how it works at all. The game will push what it is designed to do whether your PC can handle it or not, whether you have a $2000 rig or a $600 rig it won't matter as far as making the town feel alive. And by those standards my PC should be able to run anything the game throws as far as simulation, yet it never did on its own. Don't forget TS3 is a 32bit software, no matter your specs. Of course there's more than meets the eye, specially if you've ever gotten into modding it, you'll quickly learn all that goes under the hood. It's still not as impressive when it comes to the Sims themselves. On top of that without NRaas my community lots were almost empty, because having 2-4 sims there is rather empty. I only played TS3 vanilla one year, the other 6 were modded and I could never go back. I will admit, with mods the game became a rather polished jewel, hence why I was able to play it for so long.
Whereas I dislike over-the-top animations, I quite dislike the dull ones as well. TS3 did not achieve a balance. I also like reactive sims, that will express themselves based on their environment. Quite simply this comes down to not only animations but the A.I. algorithm itself. My sims would react every now and then but it was so far and between that I seldom noticed it at all.
No lag is simply impossible in any sims game. Even in your video, it stutters at times, lags at 1x speed. I became used to it, but for a game to constantly stutter even if subtle is rather annoying. Your performance is akin to what I experienced mod-free for the first 3-4 sim-weeks in game. Saved games in TS3 degrade at an amazing speed, but I reckon you would know that already. If a game performs great at first and after say, 2 weeks of playtime degrades and keeps on over-time, that's not acceptable. Performance was never a strong suit for TS3, this goes deep into the engine and how it was written, and later optimized (or rather, not optimized) and translated for TS3. Again, this goes beyond your PC specs, it has nothing to do with it.
I played it with the same setup with the exception of my GFX which was a GTX 970 before, and a GTX 660 back in the day and well, 8GB RAM instead of 16GB RAM. No matter what, the game degraded and became unbearable, even running clean-up mods.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one.
Game engines don't have to be written from the ground up, they can indeed be updated. If a developer has access to the source code (if they licensed one) or they wrote it (applicable here) they can rework it to do anything. There are many different games based on a single engine. You could license the Unreal engine or Unity and create a city builder, an MMORPG and an FPS all on the same engine.
To put it bluntly, if they wanted to turn TS4 into open world, they could, although a much more feasible thing to do would be to update the engine and build a new game on it with open world. Without doing it, they'd have to do twice the amount of work as they would have to update the engine's framework to support open worlds (including full rewrites) and on top of that, update the entire game to use it. This would simply not work, as there will be chain reactions unveiling numerous errors as they do that.
I don't think there should be a new game, I think they could easily expand on TS4 from here on out considering that there's so much it's missing. they should not think about making a new game until THIS one becomes superior to the previous ones. after all, that's what a sequel is supposed to do.
I'm so old, I remember when "hashtags" were called POUND SIGNS.
I don't think there should be a new game, I think they could easily expand on TS4 from here on out considering that there's so much it's missing. they should not think about making a new game until THIS one becomes superior to the previous ones. after all, that's what a sequel is supposed to do.
That would be, for me, building on a broken foundation. A lot of time and effort and it still wouldn't be right. We need a new, proper sequel to Sims 1,2 and 3.
I don't think there should be a new game, I think they could easily expand on TS4 from here on out considering that there's so much it's missing. they should not think about making a new game until THIS one becomes superior to the previous ones. after all, that's what a sequel is supposed to do.
Until we have spent seven years, and how much money? $600? $700 or more, just to get it up to par with TS2's depth and or TS3's content? Considering there isn't a TS4 store, I think it would be more than the TS3's cost of all the EPs SPs, and store content, which might lead to $1,000s to get it to feel complete. I'm not prepared to pay another dime. ETA: Four years was long enough to bring it up to snuff.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
A game as huge as The Sims wouldn't make sense to put too much into the base game.
Compared to other video games, The Sims is a very light simulation. They could build something that is so so much more than what they've already built. Plus this is the only game whose requirements to run balloon with DLC, that's not a common practice, which once again suggests a bad toolkit or a novice team when it comes to optimization. Just because EA doesn't innovate, does not mean that it is impossible to do so, or would make no sense to do so.
This is about The Sims not about other games which are different genres and overall like comparing apples and oranges. But if you really want to compare other video games then that's fine. However, you don't provide any explanation or evidence to back up your thesis.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents. Such as the simulation itself is no longer just one lot at a time to imitate liveliness but actually simulates the whole neighborhood at once with all Sims including pets and seasons with impressive weather effects. All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
There's a mod for TS3 called NRass Tagger and I get to see all the Sims from the LIVE map view and everything that they are doing within the neighborhood. All of them are spread out in various community lots or working, or in school, or at home, etc. The town feels alive because it actually is than imitating an illusion to appear so by loading only one lot or small play area at a time like TS/TS2/TS4. Out of the rest in the franchise, TS3 is the only Sims game to date truly considered a life simulator based on the gameplay mechanics.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine. Meaning, everything that your Sim goes through in their virtual lives are recorded and they remember. This is easily noticed when a player becomes observant of how the Sims are interacting with the world and Sims around them and will be able to see the intelligent and life-like A.I. Sims are also very different from each other, not just by their personality, but also in how they develop based on their learning A.I. algorithm. There is a lot more depth than TS2 in that department and from what I understand and observe is the best simulation I have ever witnessed in a video game. And I have been playing video games since I was 4 or 5 years old. Though, to be fair, I haven't played every single game to ever release.
Concerning TS4, it's clear that game was not meant for any of the Sims fans and is overly slapdash. I'm not saying it's impossible for EA to create the best Sims game with more innovative features, stunning optimization, etc using TS3 as a base I would hope but no way am I holding my breath. However, given the track record...uh, why would anyone believe The Sims would go back to being The Sims?
Unrelated I suppose, but there's a common saying that true hardcore fans are the ones that stick around no matter what. However, I believe the opposite. True hardcore fans won't take part in something they deem is unfair and/or lost its way just for the sake of holding on to something even when it's mediocre. Because when you really love something, you let it go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Unless you are talking about TS3 while using NRaas to make the town come alive, I cannot relate here as without that mod suite, my towns were stale and dead with non-sense progression. And as much as I love open world, open world does not make a life simulator a life simulator. A life simulation is about simulating life, and the scope at which that happens doesn't necessarily tag it as a life simulator or not. The Sims 2 captured depth, real depth. Without depth + open world you end up with a neighborhood simulator, and that balance between depth/complexity and world simulation was lost in TS3. Memories in TS3 and for that matter TS4 pale in comparison to TS2 IMO, the way the game stored data from memories seemed much more impactful in TS2. Reactions and animations from TS2 also seemed much more alive and sims were reactive to their environment.
About minimal to no lag, I never experienced such thing in TS3. This goes further than "get a good PC". My rig consists of an i5 4690k @ 3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX 1080 ti, SSD. It still lagged with all DLCs, no matter if I used mods or not to try to clean it up. The game's engine at its core was never optimized. The coding of the game was a complete mess, and no matter how good a PC is, if a game or its engine are not up to the task, it will never perform fluidly. I played TS3 for 7 years and tried everything ever posted, nothing. The closest it got to fluid was the first sim-weeks of a brand new save, then it went south real fast.
I probably consider TS3 my favorite to date, but I will say that I do not consider it objectively the best at what it did. To me, it became a "jack of all trades", without doing anything properly or in-depth. In fact, despite loving the iteration, I consider it overall mediocre without the use of mods.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
These four screenshots were autonomous Sim behavior among many.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
So, your computer is able to run the simulation as intended? I'm sorry, that's not how it works at all. The game will push what it is designed to do whether your PC can handle it or not, whether you have a $2000 rig or a $600 rig it won't matter as far as making the town feel alive. And by those standards my PC should be able to run anything the game throws as far as simulation, yet it never did on its own. Don't forget TS3 is a 32bit software, no matter your specs. Of course there's more than meets the eye, specially if you've ever gotten into modding it, you'll quickly learn all that goes under the hood. It's still not as impressive when it comes to the Sims themselves. On top of that without NRaas my community lots were almost empty, because having 2-4 sims there is rather empty. I only played TS3 vanilla one year, the other 6 were modded and I could never go back. I will admit, with mods the game became a rather polished jewel, hence why I was able to play it for so long.
Whereas I dislike over-the-top animations, I quite dislike the dull ones as well. TS3 did not achieve a balance. I also like reactive sims, that will express themselves based on their environment. Quite simply this comes down to not only animations but the A.I. algorithm itself. My sims would react every now and then but it was so far and between that I seldom noticed it at all.
No lag is simply impossible in any sims game. Even in your video, it stutters at times, lags at 1x speed. I became used to it, but for a game to constantly stutter even if subtle is rather annoying. Your performance is akin to what I experienced mod-free for the first 3-4 sim-weeks in game. Saved games in TS3 degrade at an amazing speed, but I reckon you would know that already. If a game performs great at first and after say, 2 weeks of playtime degrades and keeps on over-time, that's not acceptable. Performance was never a strong suit for TS3, this goes deep into the engine and how it was written, and later optimized (or rather, not optimized) and translated for TS3. Again, this goes beyond your PC specs, it has nothing to do with it.
I played it with the same setup with the exception of my GFX which was a GTX 970 before, and a GTX 660 back in the day and well, 8GB RAM instead of 16GB RAM. No matter what, the game degraded and became unbearable, even running clean-up mods.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one.
Game engines don't have to be written from the ground up, they can indeed be updated. If a developer has access to the source code (if they licensed one) or they wrote it (applicable here) they can rework it to do anything. There are many different games based on a single engine. You could license the Unreal engine or Unity and create a city builder, an MMORPG and an FPS all on the same engine.
To put it bluntly, if they wanted to turn TS4 into open world, they could, although a much more feasible thing to do would be to update the engine and build a new game on it with open world. Without doing it, they'd have to do twice the amount of work as they would have to update the engine's framework to support open worlds (including full rewrites) and on top of that, update the entire game to use it. This would simply not work, as there will be chain reactions unveiling numerous errors as they do that.
To dramatically change an already finished game engine from a closed to an open world would be pointless and a waste of resources. Not sure why this is even mentioned when you first talk of its possibility just to realistically shut it down? Not that I'm into TS4's version of an open world as I'm already content with TS3 since nothing better piques my interest as a life simulator besides TS/TS2.
Obviously, games can use the same game engine whether tweaked or not. Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 76, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2, etc. The real question is whether TS2 and TS3 use the same game engine and I personally think not. Go ahead, transfer your TS3 Sims to TS2 or vice versa. Oh? Well, unlike the games mentioned earlier, TS2 and TS3 do not even possess the same or similar graphical level or visual style. Which is why when a modder literally does port an object, hair, clothing, etc from TS2 to TS3 or TS3 to TS2 or TS4 to TS3 or TS3 to TS4 it is quite noticeable. Or at least I can tell the difference.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that playing TS3 on a PC with minimal or less than system requirements plays a lot differently than on a PC which would equal to or above recommended system requirements, if that did exist at the time. I have started from a desktop computer that not only barely made minimal requirements but the video card was incompatible. The simulation is supposed to be a lively neighborhood but gets dragged down by whatever the capability of the computer's hardware is. A huge difference in gameplay and visuals when I got a gaming laptop and even more so with the gaming desktop I built concerning a much better processor for the overall performance and simulation aspect. Even watching some TS3 Let's Plays of some switching to more capable computers they will usually state how much better the game runs and plays performance wise.
So no, the game cannot push beyond the threshold of what the hardware is capable of. That's like me trying to play Final Fantasy XV or Assassin's Creed Odyssey on this PC and expecting the exact experience of how a recommended computer would play like. Though most things are fine except the video card and/or RAM. It wouldn't either look so great and/or it might constantly lag, stutter, freeze, crash or not play at all. Which is why I say that recommended is how the game is meant to be played no matter what the game is for the best gaming experience.
I still do play TS3 without mods or without game altering mods in some game folders. I've always found the game itself entertaining without mods at all but I started using mods because the lack of curly, wavy, Afro hair styles, braids and dreadlocks. Then that lead to trying out more mods out of curiosity and I found out for me it enhances gameplay or the appearance to my liking even more. And having more control over the in-game options to play the way I want is even better. Everyone has a different reason for choosing to use mods and does not automatically mean its because the game is boring. If that were the case, I'm not like some, I'm not going to spend my time or effort at all on a game that I do not care for. If it cannot stand on its own then I forget it and move on.
Yeah, minimal to no lag. Usually, when I spin the camera there's slight stutter but you are also forgetting the resources it takes up when recording any game compared to gameplay without recording at all. Though, I find Bandicam much better and smoother than ShadowPlay when it comes to TS3. And I have all EP's/SP's/Store Content plus all settings maxed out so if that's all the stutter I get which doesn't bother me then so what. I'm overall happy. But that doesn't mean I'm excusing the developers from what they never fixed or optimized. I'm just saying TS3 runs pretty well for what it accomplishes performance wise, to me.
Unfortunately, the developers did not, as far as I know of, go into any kind of detail about the maintenance of save files. Such as a suggestion of resetting the whole neighborhood every few Sim weeks for any broken objects, etc. Be mindful of personal and family inventories and try not to have so much excess of items. The more content on a lot, eventually, it could drop performance. Etc. It would have been nice to have some tips like that but instead I think most players just had to find out the hard way not knowing any better. But once it is known, then holding on to saves for years and years is not too problematic. Though, I'm still learning and there are all kinds of helpful guides to manage save files.
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I don't think there should be a new game, I think they could easily expand on TS4 from here on out considering that there's so much it's missing. they should not think about making a new game until THIS one becomes superior to the previous ones. after all, that's what a sequel is supposed to do.
Until we have spent seven years, and how much money? $600? $700 or more, just to get it up to par with TS2's depth and or TS3's content? Considering there isn't a TS4 store, I think it would be more than the TS3's cost of all the EPs SPs, and store content, which might lead to $1,000s to get it to feel complete. I'm not prepared to pay another dime. ETA: Four years was long enough to bring it up to snuff.
Store content was worth thousands upon thousands of dollars. Someone did the full math and it was insane. Once I get home I can look up the sources but a quick google of TS3 total store cost will probably yield it.
I'm glad it's gone tbh. It was the pinnacle of fragmenting content and making it flawed like savvy seller or the indulgent bakery. And yes, if the game at this point in time does not meet someone's satisfaction it is highly unlikely that it will ever change. I most certainly agree with you there.
A game as huge as The Sims wouldn't make sense to put too much into the base game.
Compared to other video games, The Sims is a very light simulation. They could build something that is so so much more than what they've already built. Plus this is the only game whose requirements to run balloon with DLC, that's not a common practice, which once again suggests a bad toolkit or a novice team when it comes to optimization. Just because EA doesn't innovate, does not mean that it is impossible to do so, or would make no sense to do so.
This is about The Sims not about other games which are different genres and overall like comparing apples and oranges. But if you really want to compare other video games then that's fine. However, you don't provide any explanation or evidence to back up your thesis.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents. Such as the simulation itself is no longer just one lot at a time to imitate liveliness but actually simulates the whole neighborhood at once with all Sims including pets and seasons with impressive weather effects. All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
There's a mod for TS3 called NRass Tagger and I get to see all the Sims from the LIVE map view and everything that they are doing within the neighborhood. All of them are spread out in various community lots or working, or in school, or at home, etc. The town feels alive because it actually is than imitating an illusion to appear so by loading only one lot or small play area at a time like TS/TS2/TS4. Out of the rest in the franchise, TS3 is the only Sims game to date truly considered a life simulator based on the gameplay mechanics.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine. Meaning, everything that your Sim goes through in their virtual lives are recorded and they remember. This is easily noticed when a player becomes observant of how the Sims are interacting with the world and Sims around them and will be able to see the intelligent and life-like A.I. Sims are also very different from each other, not just by their personality, but also in how they develop based on their learning A.I. algorithm. There is a lot more depth than TS2 in that department and from what I understand and observe is the best simulation I have ever witnessed in a video game. And I have been playing video games since I was 4 or 5 years old. Though, to be fair, I haven't played every single game to ever release.
Concerning TS4, it's clear that game was not meant for any of the Sims fans and is overly slapdash. I'm not saying it's impossible for EA to create the best Sims game with more innovative features, stunning optimization, etc using TS3 as a base I would hope but no way am I holding my breath. However, given the track record...uh, why would anyone believe The Sims would go back to being The Sims?
Unrelated I suppose, but there's a common saying that true hardcore fans are the ones that stick around no matter what. However, I believe the opposite. True hardcore fans won't take part in something they deem is unfair and/or lost its way just for the sake of holding on to something even when it's mediocre. Because when you really love something, you let it go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Unless you are talking about TS3 while using NRaas to make the town come alive, I cannot relate here as without that mod suite, my towns were stale and dead with non-sense progression. And as much as I love open world, open world does not make a life simulator a life simulator. A life simulation is about simulating life, and the scope at which that happens doesn't necessarily tag it as a life simulator or not. The Sims 2 captured depth, real depth. Without depth + open world you end up with a neighborhood simulator, and that balance between depth/complexity and world simulation was lost in TS3. Memories in TS3 and for that matter TS4 pale in comparison to TS2 IMO, the way the game stored data from memories seemed much more impactful in TS2. Reactions and animations from TS2 also seemed much more alive and sims were reactive to their environment.
About minimal to no lag, I never experienced such thing in TS3. This goes further than "get a good PC". My rig consists of an i5 4690k @ 3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX 1080 ti, SSD. It still lagged with all DLCs, no matter if I used mods or not to try to clean it up. The game's engine at its core was never optimized. The coding of the game was a complete mess, and no matter how good a PC is, if a game or its engine are not up to the task, it will never perform fluidly. I played TS3 for 7 years and tried everything ever posted, nothing. The closest it got to fluid was the first sim-weeks of a brand new save, then it went south real fast.
I probably consider TS3 my favorite to date, but I will say that I do not consider it objectively the best at what it did. To me, it became a "jack of all trades", without doing anything properly or in-depth. In fact, despite loving the iteration, I consider it overall mediocre without the use of mods.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
These four screenshots were autonomous Sim behavior among many.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
So, your computer is able to run the simulation as intended? I'm sorry, that's not how it works at all. The game will push what it is designed to do whether your PC can handle it or not, whether you have a $2000 rig or a $600 rig it won't matter as far as making the town feel alive. And by those standards my PC should be able to run anything the game throws as far as simulation, yet it never did on its own. Don't forget TS3 is a 32bit software, no matter your specs. Of course there's more than meets the eye, specially if you've ever gotten into modding it, you'll quickly learn all that goes under the hood. It's still not as impressive when it comes to the Sims themselves. On top of that without NRaas my community lots were almost empty, because having 2-4 sims there is rather empty. I only played TS3 vanilla one year, the other 6 were modded and I could never go back. I will admit, with mods the game became a rather polished jewel, hence why I was able to play it for so long.
Whereas I dislike over-the-top animations, I quite dislike the dull ones as well. TS3 did not achieve a balance. I also like reactive sims, that will express themselves based on their environment. Quite simply this comes down to not only animations but the A.I. algorithm itself. My sims would react every now and then but it was so far and between that I seldom noticed it at all.
No lag is simply impossible in any sims game. Even in your video, it stutters at times, lags at 1x speed. I became used to it, but for a game to constantly stutter even if subtle is rather annoying. Your performance is akin to what I experienced mod-free for the first 3-4 sim-weeks in game. Saved games in TS3 degrade at an amazing speed, but I reckon you would know that already. If a game performs great at first and after say, 2 weeks of playtime degrades and keeps on over-time, that's not acceptable. Performance was never a strong suit for TS3, this goes deep into the engine and how it was written, and later optimized (or rather, not optimized) and translated for TS3. Again, this goes beyond your PC specs, it has nothing to do with it.
I played it with the same setup with the exception of my GFX which was a GTX 970 before, and a GTX 660 back in the day and well, 8GB RAM instead of 16GB RAM. No matter what, the game degraded and became unbearable, even running clean-up mods.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one.
Game engines don't have to be written from the ground up, they can indeed be updated. If a developer has access to the source code (if they licensed one) or they wrote it (applicable here) they can rework it to do anything. There are many different games based on a single engine. You could license the Unreal engine or Unity and create a city builder, an MMORPG and an FPS all on the same engine.
To put it bluntly, if they wanted to turn TS4 into open world, they could, although a much more feasible thing to do would be to update the engine and build a new game on it with open world. Without doing it, they'd have to do twice the amount of work as they would have to update the engine's framework to support open worlds (including full rewrites) and on top of that, update the entire game to use it. This would simply not work, as there will be chain reactions unveiling numerous errors as they do that.
To dramatically change an already finished game engine from a closed to an open world would be pointless and a waste of resources. Not sure why this is even mentioned when you first talk of its possibility just to realistically shut it down? Not that I'm into TS4's version of an open world as I'm already content with TS3 since nothing better piques my interest as a life simulator besides TS/TS2.
Obviously, games can use the same game engine whether tweaked or not. Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 76, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2, etc. The real question is whether TS2 and TS3 use the same game engine and I personally think not. Go ahead, transfer your TS3 Sims to TS2 or vice versa. Oh? Well, unlike the games mentioned earlier, TS2 and TS3 do not even possess the same or similar graphical level or visual style. Which is why when a modder literally does port an object, hair, clothing, etc from TS2 to TS3 or TS3 to TS2 or TS4 to TS3 or TS3 to TS4 it is quite noticeable. Or at least I can tell the difference.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that playing TS3 on a PC with minimal or less than system requirements plays a lot differently than on a PC which would equal to or above recommended system requirements, if that did exist at the time. I have started from a desktop computer that not only barely made minimal requirements but the video card was incompatible. The simulation is supposed to be a lively neighborhood but gets dragged down by whatever the capability of the computer's hardware is. A huge difference in gameplay and visuals when I got a gaming laptop and even more so with the gaming desktop I built concerning a much better processor for the overall performance and simulation aspect. Even watching some TS3 Let's Plays of some switching to more capable computers they will usually state how much better the game runs and plays performance wise.
So no, the game cannot push beyond the threshold of what the hardware is capable of. That's like me trying to play Final Fantasy XV or Assassin's Creed Odyssey on this PC and expecting the exact experience of how a recommended computer would play like. Though most things are fine except the video card and/or RAM. It wouldn't either look so great and/or it might constantly lag, stutter, freeze, crash or not play at all. Which is why I say that recommended is how the game is meant to be played no matter what the game is for the best gaming experience.
I still do play TS3 without mods or without game altering mods in some game folders. I've always found the game itself entertaining without mods at all but I started using mods because the lack of curly, wavy, Afro hair styles, braids and dreadlocks. Then that lead to trying out more mods out of curiosity and I found out for me it enhances gameplay or the appearance to my liking even more. And having more control over the in-game options to play the way I want is even better. Everyone has a different reason for choosing to use mods and does not automatically mean its because the game is boring. If that were the case, I'm not like some, I'm not going to spend my time or effort at all on a game that I do not care for. If it cannot stand on its own then I forget it and move on.
Yeah, minimal to no lag. Usually, when I spin the camera there's slight stutter but you are also forgetting the resources it takes up when recording any game compared to gameplay without recording at all. Though, I find Bandicam much better and smoother than ShadowPlay when it comes to TS3. And I have all EP's/SP's/Store Content plus all settings maxed out so if that's all the stutter I get which doesn't bother me then so what. I'm overall happy. But that doesn't mean I'm excusing the developers from what they never fixed or optimized. I'm just saying TS3 runs pretty well for what it accomplishes performance wise, to me.
Unfortunately, the developers did not, as far as I know of, go into any kind of detail about the maintenance of save files. Such as a suggestion of resetting the whole neighborhood every few Sim weeks for any broken objects, etc. Be mindful of personal and family inventories and try not to have so much excess of items. The more content on a lot, eventually, it could drop performance. Etc. It would have been nice to have some tips like that but instead I think most players just had to find out the hard way not knowing any better. But once it is known, then holding on to saves for years and years is not too problematic. Though, I'm still learning and there are all kinds of helpful guides to manage save files.
It was mentioned since you said that you thought the engines had to be written from the ground up, which is not always necessary as they can be modified to do anything.
It's not that I am unaware, I just know how the game performs when it comes to simulation, not performance. If you have a low spec PC the game is still trying to push what it is written to do. If your PC cannot handle it, the result as the game pushes is lag, stutter, freezes, bugs. The game won't automatically recognize your PC is underspec'd and stop sending sims to venues. Routing was one of the big contributors to lag in TS3, with lower end PCs the issue becomes harsher for example. So yes, the game can and will push past your specs. The result? Well, among many things, your game could simply freeze or crash, depends on what bottlenecks first. Even with my specs my town wqs far from alive, and venues were always empty and vanilla the game did little to push more than a few sims to it. This is a problem within the code, which is why I used NRaas to force the game to push the "Go To Venue with active sim" line harder.
Again I'm not forgetting that recording takes a toll on performance. Yet that performance you recorded is akin to what I get on new saves for a few sim weeks, then it goes south. I could not, without Errortrap and Overwatch, have a healthy save for over a few months. I read and did everything that was ever written for TS3. Inventories, clean ups, manual save cleans, disable memories, play on cleaner worlds, lower sim count, perfect routing, mods to fix and cleanup, the list goes on.
I feel like we are going to go back and forth on this, I'm glad you keep enjoying TS3 and to me it ran its course after 7 years and remains my favorite. However I will always be very concerned at how many broken things were left in it, and how the same aspects of some half baked content and buggy performance is seen on TS4 too. And despite being my favorite I am very critical of all its shortcomings and performance issues I experienced after so many years of trying everything and having to start fresh saves. To be fair I am critical of them all. This business model of heavy DLCs is something I dislike, and I'd expect resounding quality from their products but nope, I'm left as one of those "gotta mod the game" folks because some things IMO just do not make sense at all.
I don't think there should be a new game, I think they could easily expand on TS4 from here on out considering that there's so much it's missing. they should not think about making a new game until THIS one becomes superior to the previous ones. after all, that's what a sequel is supposed to do.
Until we have spent seven years, and how much money? $600? $700 or more, just to get it up to par with TS2's depth and or TS3's content? Considering there isn't a TS4 store, I think it would be more than the TS3's cost of all the EPs SPs, and store content, which might lead to $1,000s to get it to feel complete. I'm not prepared to pay another dime. ETA: Four years was long enough to bring it up to snuff.
Store content was worth thousands upon thousands of dollars. Someone did the full math and it was insane. Once I get home I can look up the sources but a quick google of TS3 total store cost will probably yield it.
I'm glad it's gone tbh. It was the pinnacle of fragmenting content and making it flawed like savvy seller or the indulgent bakery. And yes, if the game at this point in time does not meet someone's satisfaction it is highly unlikely that it will ever change. I most certainly agree with you there.
I believe it's over 74k... That's a lot of freaking money... Either way, I too am glad they chose not to add a store this time. I bought things from the store back when you could watch ads for free simponts and when they would give you simpoints for registering your packs online. I refuse to spend all that money on simponts to get things. Plus there were some bugs with some of the store content. Like the fryer, for example, I ran into bugs with that.
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one. Come on, TS4 doesn't even have an open world if that was the case. Let alone, you just mentioned there are not any animations for vehicles in the way that TS2 provides for TS3. Why? Because the game engines are different, therefore, possess their own limitations to what can and cannot be done.
TS2 and TS3 share an engine. TS3 is just updated TS2 engine. TS4 is on a different engine, that obviously was not designed for what TS4 needs.
TS3 memory system I'm referring to has nothing to do with the Generations feature and was something already implemented into the A.I. from the game engine. It does not display on the U.I. Which is why some might be confused as to why their Sim(s) are acting a certain way towards another Sim. Many scenarios play out off-screen too so good luck piecing all the puzzles together to see the whole picture. However, for me, that's a part of the intrigue and fun of it. All the Sims lives and stories are intertwined and connected to each other in one big interactive soap opera.
?
Without any mods the game just assigns sims to where they need to be. If there's not enough kids, or pets, your neighbours will randomly have a kid with anyone, or get a pet. If there's not enough couples, your game will make someone a couple. Unless you mod it, very little is taken into account when assigning who lives where with whom.
I don't think there should be a new game, I think they could easily expand on TS4 from here on out considering that there's so much it's missing. they should not think about making a new game until THIS one becomes superior to the previous ones. after all, that's what a sequel is supposed to do.
For it to be superior to previous versions for me, it has to overcome the limitations that been built in since it's development and sadly that may never happen as you may have to tear down and start over. I just do not see it ever becoming equal or more superior to it's previous versions. Some people are not willing to wait for that to happen as well.
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A game as huge as The Sims wouldn't make sense to put too much into the base game.
Compared to other video games, The Sims is a very light simulation. They could build something that is so so much more than what they've already built. Plus this is the only game whose requirements to run balloon with DLC, that's not a common practice, which once again suggests a bad toolkit or a novice team when it comes to optimization. Just because EA doesn't innovate, does not mean that it is impossible to do so, or would make no sense to do so.
This is about The Sims not about other games which are different genres and overall like comparing apples and oranges. But if you really want to compare other video games then that's fine. However, you don't provide any explanation or evidence to back up your thesis.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents. Such as the simulation itself is no longer just one lot at a time to imitate liveliness but actually simulates the whole neighborhood at once with all Sims including pets and seasons with impressive weather effects. All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
There's a mod for TS3 called NRass Tagger and I get to see all the Sims from the LIVE map view and everything that they are doing within the neighborhood. All of them are spread out in various community lots or working, or in school, or at home, etc. The town feels alive because it actually is than imitating an illusion to appear so by loading only one lot or small play area at a time like TS/TS2/TS4. Out of the rest in the franchise, TS3 is the only Sims game to date truly considered a life simulator based on the gameplay mechanics.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine. Meaning, everything that your Sim goes through in their virtual lives are recorded and they remember. This is easily noticed when a player becomes observant of how the Sims are interacting with the world and Sims around them and will be able to see the intelligent and life-like A.I. Sims are also very different from each other, not just by their personality, but also in how they develop based on their learning A.I. algorithm. There is a lot more depth than TS2 in that department and from what I understand and observe is the best simulation I have ever witnessed in a video game. And I have been playing video games since I was 4 or 5 years old. Though, to be fair, I haven't played every single game to ever release.
Concerning TS4, it's clear that game was not meant for any of the Sims fans and is overly slapdash. I'm not saying it's impossible for EA to create the best Sims game with more innovative features, stunning optimization, etc using TS3 as a base I would hope but no way am I holding my breath. However, given the track record...uh, why would anyone believe The Sims would go back to being The Sims?
Unrelated I suppose, but there's a common saying that true hardcore fans are the ones that stick around no matter what. However, I believe the opposite. True hardcore fans won't take part in something they deem is unfair and/or lost its way just for the sake of holding on to something even when it's mediocre. Because when you really love something, you let it go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Unless you are talking about TS3 while using NRaas to make the town come alive, I cannot relate here as without that mod suite, my towns were stale and dead with non-sense progression. And as much as I love open world, open world does not make a life simulator a life simulator. A life simulation is about simulating life, and the scope at which that happens doesn't necessarily tag it as a life simulator or not. The Sims 2 captured depth, real depth. Without depth + open world you end up with a neighborhood simulator, and that balance between depth/complexity and world simulation was lost in TS3. Memories in TS3 and for that matter TS4 pale in comparison to TS2 IMO, the way the game stored data from memories seemed much more impactful in TS2. Reactions and animations from TS2 also seemed much more alive and sims were reactive to their environment.
About minimal to no lag, I never experienced such thing in TS3. This goes further than "get a good PC". My rig consists of an i5 4690k @ 3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX 1080 ti, SSD. It still lagged with all DLCs, no matter if I used mods or not to try to clean it up. The game's engine at its core was never optimized. The coding of the game was a complete mess, and no matter how good a PC is, if a game or its engine are not up to the task, it will never perform fluidly. I played TS3 for 7 years and tried everything ever posted, nothing. The closest it got to fluid was the first sim-weeks of a brand new save, then it went south real fast.
I probably consider TS3 my favorite to date, but I will say that I do not consider it objectively the best at what it did. To me, it became a "jack of all trades", without doing anything properly or in-depth. In fact, despite loving the iteration, I consider it overall mediocre without the use of mods.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
These four screenshots were autonomous Sim behavior among many.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
So, your computer is able to run the simulation as intended? I'm sorry, that's not how it works at all. The game will push what it is designed to do whether your PC can handle it or not, whether you have a $2000 rig or a $600 rig it won't matter as far as making the town feel alive. And by those standards my PC should be able to run anything the game throws as far as simulation, yet it never did on its own. Don't forget TS3 is a 32bit software, no matter your specs. Of course there's more than meets the eye, specially if you've ever gotten into modding it, you'll quickly learn all that goes under the hood. It's still not as impressive when it comes to the Sims themselves. On top of that without NRaas my community lots were almost empty, because having 2-4 sims there is rather empty. I only played TS3 vanilla one year, the other 6 were modded and I could never go back. I will admit, with mods the game became a rather polished jewel, hence why I was able to play it for so long.
Whereas I dislike over-the-top animations, I quite dislike the dull ones as well. TS3 did not achieve a balance. I also like reactive sims, that will express themselves based on their environment. Quite simply this comes down to not only animations but the A.I. algorithm itself. My sims would react every now and then but it was so far and between that I seldom noticed it at all.
No lag is simply impossible in any sims game. Even in your video, it stutters at times, lags at 1x speed. I became used to it, but for a game to constantly stutter even if subtle is rather annoying. Your performance is akin to what I experienced mod-free for the first 3-4 sim-weeks in game. Saved games in TS3 degrade at an amazing speed, but I reckon you would know that already. If a game performs great at first and after say, 2 weeks of playtime degrades and keeps on over-time, that's not acceptable. Performance was never a strong suit for TS3, this goes deep into the engine and how it was written, and later optimized (or rather, not optimized) and translated for TS3. Again, this goes beyond your PC specs, it has nothing to do with it.
I played it with the same setup with the exception of my GFX which was a GTX 970 before, and a GTX 660 back in the day and well, 8GB RAM instead of 16GB RAM. No matter what, the game degraded and became unbearable, even running clean-up mods.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one.
Game engines don't have to be written from the ground up, they can indeed be updated. If a developer has access to the source code (if they licensed one) or they wrote it (applicable here) they can rework it to do anything. There are many different games based on a single engine. You could license the Unreal engine or Unity and create a city builder, an MMORPG and an FPS all on the same engine.
To put it bluntly, if they wanted to turn TS4 into open world, they could, although a much more feasible thing to do would be to update the engine and build a new game on it with open world. Without doing it, they'd have to do twice the amount of work as they would have to update the engine's framework to support open worlds (including full rewrites) and on top of that, update the entire game to use it. This would simply not work, as there will be chain reactions unveiling numerous errors as they do that.
To dramatically change an already finished game engine from a closed to an open world would be pointless and a waste of resources. Not sure why this is even mentioned when you first talk of its possibility just to realistically shut it down? Not that I'm into TS4's version of an open world as I'm already content with TS3 since nothing better piques my interest as a life simulator besides TS/TS2.
Obviously, games can use the same game engine whether tweaked or not. Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 76, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2, etc. The real question is whether TS2 and TS3 use the same game engine and I personally think not. Go ahead, transfer your TS3 Sims to TS2 or vice versa. Oh? Well, unlike the games mentioned earlier, TS2 and TS3 do not even possess the same or similar graphical level or visual style. Which is why when a modder literally does port an object, hair, clothing, etc from TS2 to TS3 or TS3 to TS2 or TS4 to TS3 or TS3 to TS4 it is quite noticeable. Or at least I can tell the difference.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that playing TS3 on a PC with minimal or less than system requirements plays a lot differently than on a PC which would equal to or above recommended system requirements, if that did exist at the time. I have started from a desktop computer that not only barely made minimal requirements but the video card was incompatible. The simulation is supposed to be a lively neighborhood but gets dragged down by whatever the capability of the computer's hardware is. A huge difference in gameplay and visuals when I got a gaming laptop and even more so with the gaming desktop I built concerning a much better processor for the overall performance and simulation aspect. Even watching some TS3 Let's Plays of some switching to more capable computers they will usually state how much better the game runs and plays performance wise.
So no, the game cannot push beyond the threshold of what the hardware is capable of. That's like me trying to play Final Fantasy XV or Assassin's Creed Odyssey on this PC and expecting the exact experience of how a recommended computer would play like. Though most things are fine except the video card and/or RAM. It wouldn't either look so great and/or it might constantly lag, stutter, freeze, crash or not play at all. Which is why I say that recommended is how the game is meant to be played no matter what the game is for the best gaming experience.
I still do play TS3 without mods or without game altering mods in some game folders. I've always found the game itself entertaining without mods at all but I started using mods because the lack of curly, wavy, Afro hair styles, braids and dreadlocks. Then that lead to trying out more mods out of curiosity and I found out for me it enhances gameplay or the appearance to my liking even more. And having more control over the in-game options to play the way I want is even better. Everyone has a different reason for choosing to use mods and does not automatically mean its because the game is boring. If that were the case, I'm not like some, I'm not going to spend my time or effort at all on a game that I do not care for. If it cannot stand on its own then I forget it and move on.
Yeah, minimal to no lag. Usually, when I spin the camera there's slight stutter but you are also forgetting the resources it takes up when recording any game compared to gameplay without recording at all. Though, I find Bandicam much better and smoother than ShadowPlay when it comes to TS3. And I have all EP's/SP's/Store Content plus all settings maxed out so if that's all the stutter I get which doesn't bother me then so what. I'm overall happy. But that doesn't mean I'm excusing the developers from what they never fixed or optimized. I'm just saying TS3 runs pretty well for what it accomplishes performance wise, to me.
Unfortunately, the developers did not, as far as I know of, go into any kind of detail about the maintenance of save files. Such as a suggestion of resetting the whole neighborhood every few Sim weeks for any broken objects, etc. Be mindful of personal and family inventories and try not to have so much excess of items. The more content on a lot, eventually, it could drop performance. Etc. It would have been nice to have some tips like that but instead I think most players just had to find out the hard way not knowing any better. But once it is known, then holding on to saves for years and years is not too problematic. Though, I'm still learning and there are all kinds of helpful guides to manage save files.
It was mentioned since you said that you thought the engines had to be written from the ground up, which is not always necessary as they can be modified to do anything.
I'm talking about The Sims in general, not other games and I'm saying I think TS/TS2/TS3/TS4 all have their own game engines. Not that in general game engines have to be or is only built from the ground up within a series and/or other similar titles from a developer.
It's not that I am unaware, I just know how the game performs when it comes to simulation, not performance. If you have a low spec PC the game is still trying to push what it is written to do. If your PC cannot handle it, the result as the game pushes is lag, stutter, freezes, bugs. The game won't automatically recognize your PC is underspec'd and stop sending sims to venues. Routing was one of the big contributors to lag in TS3, with lower end PCs the issue becomes harsher for example. So yes, the game can and will push past your specs. The result? Well, among many things, your game could simply freeze or crash, depends on what bottlenecks first. Even with my specs my town wqs far from alive, and venues were always empty and vanilla the game did little to push more than a few sims to it. This is a problem within the code, which is why I used NRaas to force the game to push the "Go To Venue with active sim" line harder.
I agree to disagree.
Again I'm not forgetting that recording takes a toll on performance. Yet that performance you recorded is akin to what I get on new saves for a few sim weeks, then it goes south. I could not, without Errortrap and Overwatch, have a healthy save for over a few months. I read and did everything that was ever written for TS3. Inventories, clean ups, manual save cleans, disable memories, play on cleaner worlds, lower sim count, perfect routing, mods to fix and cleanup, the list goes on.
I feel like we are going to go back and forth on this, I'm glad you keep enjoying TS3 and to me it ran its course after 7 years and remains my favorite. However I will always be very concerned at how many broken things were left in it, and how the same aspects of some half baked content and buggy performance is seen on TS4 too. And despite being my favorite I am very critical of all its shortcomings and performance issues I experienced after so many years of trying everything and having to start fresh saves. To be fair I am critical of them all. This business model of heavy DLCs is something I dislike, and I'd expect resounding quality from their products but nope, I'm left as one of those "gotta mod the game" folks because some things IMO just do not make sense at all.
Well, personally I wouldn't put up with any game that I "have to" mod in order to even play the game or have fun. Games are not perfect, that's true but if there are more pros than cons to me than I can overlook its shortcomings. Otherwise, if its more cons than pros it gets kicked to the curb. Simple as that.
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one. Come on, TS4 doesn't even have an open world if that was the case. Let alone, you just mentioned there are not any animations for vehicles in the way that TS2 provides for TS3. Why? Because the game engines are different, therefore, possess their own limitations to what can and cannot be done.
TS2 and TS3 share an engine. TS3 is just updated TS2 engine. TS4 is on a different engine, that obviously was not designed for what TS4 needs.
TS3 memory system I'm referring to has nothing to do with the Generations feature and was something already implemented into the A.I. from the game engine. It does not display on the U.I. Which is why some might be confused as to why their Sim(s) are acting a certain way towards another Sim. Many scenarios play out off-screen too so good luck piecing all the puzzles together to see the whole picture. However, for me, that's a part of the intrigue and fun of it. All the Sims lives and stories are intertwined and connected to each other in one big interactive soap opera.
?
Without any mods the game just assigns sims to where they need to be. If there's not enough kids, or pets, your neighbours will randomly have a kid with anyone, or get a pet. If there's not enough couples, your game will make someone a couple. Unless you mod it, very little is taken into account when assigning who lives where with whom.
Show proof that TS3 game engine is based on TS2 game engine. I might not know much about game development but I find it difficult to believe to have two extremely different methods of gameplay mechanics and graphics but both being from the same game engine. I would think just "updating" wouldn't cause too huge of a change hence the RE7 and RE2, etc examples. For more innovative features, I also would think a developer has to create a brand new game engine in order to incorporate the latest technology in video games. So unless there is evidence, I'm not one to just take anyone's word for it.
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I usually don't play with Story Progression on. Though, yes even with it off, Sims do still get assigned jobs if they already do not have one. Other than that, I think, the A.I. takes over which is great but unfortunately, some things Sims cannot do autonomously. While story progression is a good idea and a step in the right direction, it wasn't implemented the best and I wish there were a lot of individual features players could turn on or off, etc. Basically, have more control over the whole neighborhood and Sims and what story progression can and cannot do.
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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old
Whether some agree with the lengthened life span or not...the choice is ultimately up to the players. Is it worth it?
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one. Come on, TS4 doesn't even have an open world if that was the case. Let alone, you just mentioned there are not any animations for vehicles in the way that TS2 provides for TS3. Why? Because the game engines are different, therefore, possess their own limitations to what can and cannot be done.
TS2 and TS3 share an engine. TS3 is just updated TS2 engine. TS4 is on a different engine, that obviously was not designed for what TS4 needs.
TS3 memory system I'm referring to has nothing to do with the Generations feature and was something already implemented into the A.I. from the game engine. It does not display on the U.I. Which is why some might be confused as to why their Sim(s) are acting a certain way towards another Sim. Many scenarios play out off-screen too so good luck piecing all the puzzles together to see the whole picture. However, for me, that's a part of the intrigue and fun of it. All the Sims lives and stories are intertwined and connected to each other in one big interactive soap opera.
?
Without any mods the game just assigns sims to where they need to be. If there's not enough kids, or pets, your neighbours will randomly have a kid with anyone, or get a pet. If there's not enough couples, your game will make someone a couple. Unless you mod it, very little is taken into account when assigning who lives where with whom.
Show proof that TS3 game engine is based on TS2 game engine. I might not know much about game development but I find it difficult to believe to have two extremely different methods of gameplay mechanics and graphics but both being from the same game engine. I would think just "updating" wouldn't cause too huge of a change hence the RE7 and RE2, etc examples. For more innovative features, I also would think a developer has to create a brand new game engine in order to incorporate the latest technology in video games. So unless there is evidence, I'm not one to just take anyone's word for it.
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I usually don't play with Story Progression on. Though, yes even with it off, Sims do still get assigned jobs if they already do not have one. Other than that, I think, the A.I. takes over which is great but unfortunately, some things Sims cannot do autonomously. While story progression is a good idea and a step in the right direction, it wasn't implemented the best and I wish there were a lot of individual features players could turn on or off, etc. Basically, have more control over the whole neighborhood and Sims and what story progression can and cannot do.
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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old
Whether some agree with the lengthened life span or not...the choice is ultimately up to the players. Is it worth it?
I appreciate your passion about the games but you guys are going off topic. This thread is not to compare TS4 to TS3, but you can use some examples about the older games to prove points of why this game has had enough time (4 years) to complete it's potiential or maybe some don't think so. But we aren't here to debate whether TS2 and TS3 share the same game engine, maybe they do but I sort of doubt that. TS3 used Maya language, I'm not sure TS2 used that, and TS4 uses Python, so no, they aren't exactly the same or even using the same computer languages.
ETA: I don't mean you personally but all those going off topic debating if all the games use the same game engine. This takes the theme off topic a little.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
A game as huge as The Sims wouldn't make sense to put too much into the base game.
Compared to other video games, The Sims is a very light simulation. They could build something that is so so much more than what they've already built. Plus this is the only game whose requirements to run balloon with DLC, that's not a common practice, which once again suggests a bad toolkit or a novice team when it comes to optimization. Just because EA doesn't innovate, does not mean that it is impossible to do so, or would make no sense to do so.
This is about The Sims not about other games which are different genres and overall like comparing apples and oranges. But if you really want to compare other video games then that's fine. However, you don't provide any explanation or evidence to back up your thesis.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents. Such as the simulation itself is no longer just one lot at a time to imitate liveliness but actually simulates the whole neighborhood at once with all Sims including pets and seasons with impressive weather effects. All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
There's a mod for TS3 called NRass Tagger and I get to see all the Sims from the LIVE map view and everything that they are doing within the neighborhood. All of them are spread out in various community lots or working, or in school, or at home, etc. The town feels alive because it actually is than imitating an illusion to appear so by loading only one lot or small play area at a time like TS/TS2/TS4. Out of the rest in the franchise, TS3 is the only Sims game to date truly considered a life simulator based on the gameplay mechanics.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine. Meaning, everything that your Sim goes through in their virtual lives are recorded and they remember. This is easily noticed when a player becomes observant of how the Sims are interacting with the world and Sims around them and will be able to see the intelligent and life-like A.I. Sims are also very different from each other, not just by their personality, but also in how they develop based on their learning A.I. algorithm. There is a lot more depth than TS2 in that department and from what I understand and observe is the best simulation I have ever witnessed in a video game. And I have been playing video games since I was 4 or 5 years old. Though, to be fair, I haven't played every single game to ever release.
Concerning TS4, it's clear that game was not meant for any of the Sims fans and is overly slapdash. I'm not saying it's impossible for EA to create the best Sims game with more innovative features, stunning optimization, etc using TS3 as a base I would hope but no way am I holding my breath. However, given the track record...uh, why would anyone believe The Sims would go back to being The Sims?
Unrelated I suppose, but there's a common saying that true hardcore fans are the ones that stick around no matter what. However, I believe the opposite. True hardcore fans won't take part in something they deem is unfair and/or lost its way just for the sake of holding on to something even when it's mediocre. Because when you really love something, you let it go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Unless you are talking about TS3 while using NRaas to make the town come alive, I cannot relate here as without that mod suite, my towns were stale and dead with non-sense progression. And as much as I love open world, open world does not make a life simulator a life simulator. A life simulation is about simulating life, and the scope at which that happens doesn't necessarily tag it as a life simulator or not. The Sims 2 captured depth, real depth. Without depth + open world you end up with a neighborhood simulator, and that balance between depth/complexity and world simulation was lost in TS3. Memories in TS3 and for that matter TS4 pale in comparison to TS2 IMO, the way the game stored data from memories seemed much more impactful in TS2. Reactions and animations from TS2 also seemed much more alive and sims were reactive to their environment.
About minimal to no lag, I never experienced such thing in TS3. This goes further than "get a good PC". My rig consists of an i5 4690k @ 3.9 GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX 1080 ti, SSD. It still lagged with all DLCs, no matter if I used mods or not to try to clean it up. The game's engine at its core was never optimized. The coding of the game was a complete mess, and no matter how good a PC is, if a game or its engine are not up to the task, it will never perform fluidly. I played TS3 for 7 years and tried everything ever posted, nothing. The closest it got to fluid was the first sim-weeks of a brand new save, then it went south real fast.
I probably consider TS3 my favorite to date, but I will say that I do not consider it objectively the best at what it did. To me, it became a "jack of all trades", without doing anything properly or in-depth. In fact, despite loving the iteration, I consider it overall mediocre without the use of mods.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
These four screenshots were autonomous Sim behavior among many.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
So, your computer is able to run the simulation as intended? I'm sorry, that's not how it works at all. The game will push what it is designed to do whether your PC can handle it or not, whether you have a $2000 rig or a $600 rig it won't matter as far as making the town feel alive. And by those standards my PC should be able to run anything the game throws as far as simulation, yet it never did on its own. Don't forget TS3 is a 32bit software, no matter your specs. Of course there's more than meets the eye, specially if you've ever gotten into modding it, you'll quickly learn all that goes under the hood. It's still not as impressive when it comes to the Sims themselves. On top of that without NRaas my community lots were almost empty, because having 2-4 sims there is rather empty. I only played TS3 vanilla one year, the other 6 were modded and I could never go back. I will admit, with mods the game became a rather polished jewel, hence why I was able to play it for so long.
Whereas I dislike over-the-top animations, I quite dislike the dull ones as well. TS3 did not achieve a balance. I also like reactive sims, that will express themselves based on their environment. Quite simply this comes down to not only animations but the A.I. algorithm itself. My sims would react every now and then but it was so far and between that I seldom noticed it at all.
No lag is simply impossible in any sims game. Even in your video, it stutters at times, lags at 1x speed. I became used to it, but for a game to constantly stutter even if subtle is rather annoying. Your performance is akin to what I experienced mod-free for the first 3-4 sim-weeks in game. Saved games in TS3 degrade at an amazing speed, but I reckon you would know that already. If a game performs great at first and after say, 2 weeks of playtime degrades and keeps on over-time, that's not acceptable. Performance was never a strong suit for TS3, this goes deep into the engine and how it was written, and later optimized (or rather, not optimized) and translated for TS3. Again, this goes beyond your PC specs, it has nothing to do with it.
I played it with the same setup with the exception of my GFX which was a GTX 970 before, and a GTX 660 back in the day and well, 8GB RAM instead of 16GB RAM. No matter what, the game degraded and became unbearable, even running clean-up mods.
TS is the first in the entry. TS2 improved and advanced a lot but still only one lot at a time with generated Sims on the spot as they interact with other Sims, objects or enter then leave off-screen. TS3 improved and advanced a lot while also innovating gameplay mechanics to something that makes the perfect sense for the genre it represents.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
All with minimal to no lag, of course you must have a good gaming computer to actually experience TS3 the way it is meant to be played.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
Not only that, but I suppose some don't know that TS3 Sims have actual memories that was implemented in the base game/game engine.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one.
Game engines don't have to be written from the ground up, they can indeed be updated. If a developer has access to the source code (if they licensed one) or they wrote it (applicable here) they can rework it to do anything. There are many different games based on a single engine. You could license the Unreal engine or Unity and create a city builder, an MMORPG and an FPS all on the same engine.
To put it bluntly, if they wanted to turn TS4 into open world, they could, although a much more feasible thing to do would be to update the engine and build a new game on it with open world. Without doing it, they'd have to do twice the amount of work as they would have to update the engine's framework to support open worlds (including full rewrites) and on top of that, update the entire game to use it. This would simply not work, as there will be chain reactions unveiling numerous errors as they do that.
To dramatically change an already finished game engine from a closed to an open world would be pointless and a waste of resources. Not sure why this is even mentioned when you first talk of its possibility just to realistically shut it down? Not that I'm into TS4's version of an open world as I'm already content with TS3 since nothing better piques my interest as a life simulator besides TS/TS2.
Obviously, games can use the same game engine whether tweaked or not. Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 76, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2, etc. The real question is whether TS2 and TS3 use the same game engine and I personally think not. Go ahead, transfer your TS3 Sims to TS2 or vice versa. Oh? Well, unlike the games mentioned earlier, TS2 and TS3 do not even possess the same or similar graphical level or visual style. Which is why when a modder literally does port an object, hair, clothing, etc from TS2 to TS3 or TS3 to TS2 or TS4 to TS3 or TS3 to TS4 it is quite noticeable. Or at least I can tell the difference.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that playing TS3 on a PC with minimal or less than system requirements plays a lot differently than on a PC which would equal to or above recommended system requirements, if that did exist at the time. I have started from a desktop computer that not only barely made minimal requirements but the video card was incompatible. The simulation is supposed to be a lively neighborhood but gets dragged down by whatever the capability of the computer's hardware is. A huge difference in gameplay and visuals when I got a gaming laptop and even more so with the gaming desktop I built concerning a much better processor for the overall performance and simulation aspect. Even watching some TS3 Let's Plays of some switching to more capable computers they will usually state how much better the game runs and plays performance wise.
So no, the game cannot push beyond the threshold of what the hardware is capable of. That's like me trying to play Final Fantasy XV or Assassin's Creed Odyssey on this PC and expecting the exact experience of how a recommended computer would play like. Though most things are fine except the video card and/or RAM. It wouldn't either look so great and/or it might constantly lag, stutter, freeze, crash or not play at all. Which is why I say that recommended is how the game is meant to be played no matter what the game is for the best gaming experience.
I still do play TS3 without mods or without game altering mods in some game folders. I've always found the game itself entertaining without mods at all but I started using mods because the lack of curly, wavy, Afro hair styles, braids and dreadlocks. Then that lead to trying out more mods out of curiosity and I found out for me it enhances gameplay or the appearance to my liking even more. And having more control over the in-game options to play the way I want is even better. Everyone has a different reason for choosing to use mods and does not automatically mean its because the game is boring. If that were the case, I'm not like some, I'm not going to spend my time or effort at all on a game that I do not care for. If it cannot stand on its own then I forget it and move on.
Yeah, minimal to no lag. Usually, when I spin the camera there's slight stutter but you are also forgetting the resources it takes up when recording any game compared to gameplay without recording at all. Though, I find Bandicam much better and smoother than ShadowPlay when it comes to TS3. And I have all EP's/SP's/Store Content plus all settings maxed out so if that's all the stutter I get which doesn't bother me then so what. I'm overall happy. But that doesn't mean I'm excusing the developers from what they never fixed or optimized. I'm just saying TS3 runs pretty well for what it accomplishes performance wise, to me.
Unfortunately, the developers did not, as far as I know of, go into any kind of detail about the maintenance of save files. Such as a suggestion of resetting the whole neighborhood every few Sim weeks for any broken objects, etc. Be mindful of personal and family inventories and try not to have so much excess of items. The more content on a lot, eventually, it could drop performance. Etc. It would have been nice to have some tips like that but instead I think most players just had to find out the hard way not knowing any better. But once it is known, then holding on to saves for years and years is not too problematic. Though, I'm still learning and there are all kinds of helpful guides to manage save files.
It was mentioned since you said that you thought the engines had to be written from the ground up, which is not always necessary as they can be modified to do anything.
I'm talking about The Sims in general, not other games and I'm saying I think TS/TS2/TS3/TS4 all have their own game engines. Not that in general game engines have to be or is only built from the ground up within a series and/or other similar titles from a developer.
It's not that I am unaware, I just know how the game performs when it comes to simulation, not performance. If you have a low spec PC the game is still trying to push what it is written to do. If your PC cannot handle it, the result as the game pushes is lag, stutter, freezes, bugs. The game won't automatically recognize your PC is underspec'd and stop sending sims to venues. Routing was one of the big contributors to lag in TS3, with lower end PCs the issue becomes harsher for example. So yes, the game can and will push past your specs. The result? Well, among many things, your game could simply freeze or crash, depends on what bottlenecks first. Even with my specs my town wqs far from alive, and venues were always empty and vanilla the game did little to push more than a few sims to it. This is a problem within the code, which is why I used NRaas to force the game to push the "Go To Venue with active sim" line harder.
I agree to disagree.
Again I'm not forgetting that recording takes a toll on performance. Yet that performance you recorded is akin to what I get on new saves for a few sim weeks, then it goes south. I could not, without Errortrap and Overwatch, have a healthy save for over a few months. I read and did everything that was ever written for TS3. Inventories, clean ups, manual save cleans, disable memories, play on cleaner worlds, lower sim count, perfect routing, mods to fix and cleanup, the list goes on.
I feel like we are going to go back and forth on this, I'm glad you keep enjoying TS3 and to me it ran its course after 7 years and remains my favorite. However I will always be very concerned at how many broken things were left in it, and how the same aspects of some half baked content and buggy performance is seen on TS4 too. And despite being my favorite I am very critical of all its shortcomings and performance issues I experienced after so many years of trying everything and having to start fresh saves. To be fair I am critical of them all. This business model of heavy DLCs is something I dislike, and I'd expect resounding quality from their products but nope, I'm left as one of those "gotta mod the game" folks because some things IMO just do not make sense at all.
Well, personally I wouldn't put up with any game that I "have to" mod in order to even play the game or have fun. Games are not perfect, that's true but if there are more pros than cons to me than I can overlook its shortcomings. Otherwise, if its more cons than pros it gets kicked to the curb. Simple as that.
Well, TS3 to me was like an unpolished gem. Mods for me polished it, but it did not mean I could not bear to play the game without mods. I just chose not to because I could not bring myself to play without those mods as they enhanced the game and fixed it greatly. The functionality was there, mods for me opened them up and made them more in depth. It's a matter of taste. I.E in TS4 I loathe the famous reactions so I mod them out. I don't have to mod it out but my enjoyment is greatly increased if I do. There's also the thing of The Sims having no competition, and being a fan of life simulation well, it's a personal struggle. I did however not buy TS4 until I personally thought it was worth it for me (discounted that is) thanks to TS3.
Edit: Apologies Cinebar, to keep it more on topic IMO I don't think it needs another 3 years. I personally want to see more tweaks and content but I do not deem it necessary. On the other hand their inability to fix years old bugs leaves me afraid of how well they could execute TS5 and make it a unique sequel if they cannot get this one right as far as performance and bugs. Their pattern of messing up other packs with new releases is concerning.
The Sims is, or was the kind of game as it improves and advances with each new iteration and makes sense to use more resources over time that can cause performance issues without player intervention to manage and maintain. Whether with or without mods. But the developers are not responsible for 3rd party and falls completely on the responsibility of the mod creator and mod user. I don't think this only concerns TS3 and is something to consider for TS4 which will supposedly have the longest life span. Which means more features, more content, more introduced glitches which some may or may not ever get addressed to fix, etc for a mediocre game engine.
I sometimes read that some are having issues now with TS4 lagging, etc and have a capable or more than capable PC. Lag, stuttering, freezing and crashing are not uncommon in video games anyway, however, some claim TS4's game engine to be the most superior of all in the main series. Despite it not doing any better than any other Sims game implying the opposite. And technically, it has the weakest and most limited game engine and to me gameplay mechanics (Everything you do is dictated by emotions and has constrictive gameplay such as having to complete checklists, etc which completely ruin a player's freedom and strongly discourages a sandbox play style since there are consequences for ignoring the checklist to ensure the party is a success.), according to progression. And yes, there are some elements in TS2 with that checklist for the headmaster, dates, etc. Fortunately, TS3 got rid of most of that to focus on giving the player the most control and actually playing the game not a mini-game.
Also, concerning lag in TS4, I have read something referred to as Simulation Lag where Sims just sit around and do nothing for Sim hours before actually being able to perform whatever said task, etc. As I am aware of now, a mod fixes this...a mod? Not the developers? And that definitely is something major not minor unless people are trying to play TS4 on an incompatible computer, though, I read that is not always the case nor do some use mods at all. So another 3 years of TS4? Not to mention, all the other unfixed glitches piling up in the same exact manner they did with TS3. Did anything really change in how they commit to quality control based on actions alone?
And yes, in TS3 Sims can also stall for some Sim hours after being told what to do, however, from what I noticed this has to do with either an low-end computer that cannot process the simulating correctly and that is usually the first thing that goes to compensate for insufficient hardware or a high-end computer whether with or without mods that the player lacks to manage and maintain their game. And unfortunately, I do not recall the discussion ever being brought up as something by developers concerning the maintenance. That would explain why some are having issues thinking the game should just work endlessly without player intervention but doesn't seem to be the case with either TS3 or TS4. However, in TS4 you cannot edit the town to get rid of things that is taking up resources as it's all permanently in place for the illusion. Maybe that takes up more resources than TS3 ever could because it's looping an animation/object/effect which over time with new things added might contribute and affect the overall performance.
Thinking about the nature of the series, in-game progress would eventually increase with more Sims/Households, content, features, etc. There is a limit to how much one's computer can handle before the performance takes a hit. Some think TS3 is too much but TS4 is/will be the excessive one. Of course, every single EP/GP/SP released doesn't mean it has to be bought and/or installed but is a personal preference if your computer can handle it. Hmm, I wonder is there testing that goes into the collection as a whole than just base game and whatever EP/GP/SP for a gaming desktop/laptop performance wise?
What is the point of TS4, let alone extending it? It's not a real sequel, it doesn't really improve or advance overall. That's evident in the base game/game engine alone. It definitely retrogressed and that's not okay for price they are asking. Non-existent trade-offs because it doesn't do anything major any better than TS2/TS3 and in some cases actually worse. What did it bring to the franchise that's so worthwhile and innovative to at the very least justify all of its shortcomings?
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
There are some things that I do like about TS4. The better graphics being the major improvement. I also like how I can easily edit the houses/businesses and sims in my world by shaping their bodies, as well as changing their outfits. Then they give me apartments which took away that improvement when they took away my ability to do anything other than furnish them or put up some wallpaper.
Having said that though, TS4 doesn't even come close to being an improvement over TS3 imo. Requiring me to wait on a load screen every time I travel is a major irritation. I do enjoy playing TS4 when I am not having to deal with buggy gameplay or performance issues, but I've been ready to move on to TS5 after a few months of dealing with problems and buggy game play every time they come out with something new for TS4. I have learned that when a new patch or pack comes out, I need to not play for awhile to give them time to fix the problems they have created. Should any game in this day and age influence me to stop playing their game for the sake of my peace of mind and sanity?
I hope that TS5 can give me the best of both worlds and even blow my mind with new technology, as well as some new content never before experienced. An open world, a color wheel so my sims can wear matching outfits, the ability to create a band and perform at venues, slow dancing, apartments I can tear down and rebuild if I like, the ability to add or change any existing lots in the world, and some really, really advanced technology which allows my sim's house to have a functioning doorbell.
Not trying to be mean just trying to understand where everyone's mind is regarding the idea of the sims 5.
How is it after what happened to TS3 (how the game was left) and what's currently happening with TS4 can you really trust them to not follow the same path again with TS5?
It's like the saying, "Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me. Fool me three times; shame on us both".
I'm not trying to say that someone shouldn't have hope, however, I just don't understand why someone would have their hopes up for a highly possible third "disappointment"* just based on Eaxis' track record.
*Matter of opinion, but I digress.
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
Comments
Another EP maybe?
Thank you. It's what I've believed all along. When asked what word would describe the Sims 4 in 2019 I believe Grant said surprises. I think he was referring to something never before seen in the game which may have required additional new talent. Time will tell.
TS3 imported everything from TS2 over. It was built on top of TS2. However animations had to be cut. We no longer had entering/ leaving cars for example. Unlike previously, every building was now a rabbit hole. Nice set piece, yeah, but it meant that it was a) less customizable and b) you lost out on a lot of roleplay and general life mechanics such as going to the store. TS3 saving grace was that it offset it with their inclusion of the colour wheel, with their no loadscreens and a high amount of sims to interact with. They also took it upon themselves to try some new things with the iteration (tomb exploration, diving, boats), even if end product was a buggy mess. It was a buggy mess with redeeming qualities, but just here we already see a stump in quality.
TS3 is a 32 bit executable only, meaning that if you installed all expansions, you could not offset lag with your hardware. It is capped on how much of your hardware it can use. Which is why we have seen warnings from EA that you're not meant to play with all expansions and a custom interface for switching expansions on and off.
The Sims 2 had a more advanced memory system. The Sims 3 got it partway through its life due to The Sims 2 fans wanting it. The Sims 3 memory system is fairly badly optimized and it is the first thing that's recommended to be switched off if you're experiencing lag.
Other than that, left your comment a like
I know I wouldn't play the game at all without mods. I have like 500mb of just game *mods* not cc. I can't stand the game vanilla.
Why would they want a different team for a triple A IP just to build another EP? They were even looking for a new Creative Director and head honcho to help develop a new title. That wouldn't be about a new EP but a new Sim game.
I could certainly be wrong, but I believe IngeJones just can't "let the cat out of the bag".
It's going to take a long time to develop the next iteration of the sims franchise. So it would make sense that they would start working on it now to have enough time to have it ready for release by the time they are done with TS4. Just a guess on my part, but it makes sense to me.
I don't need mods to liven TS3 because my computer is capable to correctly simulate as intended. The point of bringing up NRass Tagger is that it allows me to see where all the Sims are in the whole neighborhood with a short description of what they are doing.
An open seamless world which involves the whole simulation process by TS3 standard according to its gameplay mechanics is by the definition of what a simulation is compared to one lot/ small play area with an illusion of simulation according to TS/TS2/TS4 gameplay mechanics. However, TS/TS2 are still people/life simulators for its time based on the limitations of technology then. I'm just saying, TS3 can be classified as being the most true to its genre based on what it achieved during its time.
Some don't or won't see how amazing TS3 is and that's fine. But for those that are quite observant will learn many interesting things and discover how the open world connects to the Sims and overall the whole gaming experience of life simulation. Of course, some just snorkel on the surface than scuba dive to really see the true depth of the game. Because there's definitely more than meets the eye.
I never really cared about the memories in TS2 and was kind of pointless the way it was implemented. The same with TS3 Generations version of memories.
I like the animations and reactions in TS3. TS2 it was okay when I was younger but I'm older and prefer the more mature and subtle animations and reactions than over-the-top silliness.
More screenshots.
It's not just me but there are plenty of people who can play TS3 just fine with minimal to no lag whether with or without mods. The configuration of computers varies so much there's no telling what will or will not work for a game between 2009-2013. Hardware too far behind or too far ahead could easily run into compatibility issues hence the system requirements. Unfortunately, the developers never released any recommended system requirements and because of that some have a difficult time understanding what does work beyond the minimal specifications. When I built my first gaming desktop I tried to stay within the game's time line when picking out hardware.
Win 7 64-bit
8 GB RAM/G.Skill Ripjaws
ASRock Z77 Extreme4
Intel Core i7 3770K @ 3.5 Ghz
EVGA Super Clocked Geforce GTX 660 2 GB
1 TB HDD
NZXT Technologies Phantom 240
Without any mods this is how the game plays with settings maxed out with all EP'S/SP'S/Store Content on the computer I built.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I still don't get when others say something along the lines of TS3 game engine is just an updated version of TS2 game engine. From what I understand, all game engines are created from the ground up. Yes, there are some animations, objects, etc that resembles past content but that doesn't mean the game engine was built from a previous one. Come on, TS4 doesn't even have an open world if that was the case. Let alone, you just mentioned there are not any animations for vehicles in the way that TS2 provides for TS3. Why? Because the game engines are different, therefore, possess their own limitations to what can and cannot be done.
Besides, one of the SimGuru's already explained why they made that decision and it was because in order to have proper car animations the garage/parking space always had to be fixed within a specific layout which meant no creativity in building the garage wherever you want. Plus, because the whole neighborhood is being simulated at once it would put too much strain on performance when and if Sims would get stuck. Limitations is not anything new but that's what sequels are for or was for.
Certain rabbithole's did annoy me such the grocery store, movie theater, spa, bookstore, diner, bistro, etc. I also preferred shopping for clothes and the household having a wardrobe available for the same age group and gender. I'm fine with the work related RH's (Love the professions too) but I always loved the open shopping aspect in TS/TS2. However, they at least tried to make up for it whether it was through EP's or Store Content.
Because of how the game programs Role Sims, It's Business Time Industrial Oven, cannot function correctly consistently or so I haven't figured out a workaround without using a mod to prevent the constant switching. But it's still better to have than nothing at all.
TS3 memory system I'm referring to has nothing to do with the Generations feature and was something already implemented into the A.I. from the game engine. It does not display on the U.I. Which is why some might be confused as to why their Sim(s) are acting a certain way towards another Sim. Many scenarios play out off-screen too so good luck piecing all the puzzles together to see the whole picture. However, for me, that's a part of the intrigue and fun of it. All the Sims lives and stories are intertwined and connected to each other in one big interactive soap opera.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
So, your computer is able to run the simulation as intended? I'm sorry, that's not how it works at all. The game will push what it is designed to do whether your PC can handle it or not, whether you have a $2000 rig or a $600 rig it won't matter as far as making the town feel alive. And by those standards my PC should be able to run anything the game throws as far as simulation, yet it never did on its own. Don't forget TS3 is a 32bit software, no matter your specs. Of course there's more than meets the eye, specially if you've ever gotten into modding it, you'll quickly learn all that goes under the hood. It's still not as impressive when it comes to the Sims themselves. On top of that without NRaas my community lots were almost empty, because having 2-4 sims there is rather empty. I only played TS3 vanilla one year, the other 6 were modded and I could never go back. I will admit, with mods the game became a rather polished jewel, hence why I was able to play it for so long.
Whereas I dislike over-the-top animations, I quite dislike the dull ones as well. TS3 did not achieve a balance. I also like reactive sims, that will express themselves based on their environment. Quite simply this comes down to not only animations but the A.I. algorithm itself. My sims would react every now and then but it was so far and between that I seldom noticed it at all.
No lag is simply impossible in any sims game. Even in your video, it stutters at times, lags at 1x speed. I became used to it, but for a game to constantly stutter even if subtle is rather annoying. Your performance is akin to what I experienced mod-free for the first 3-4 sim-weeks in game. Saved games in TS3 degrade at an amazing speed, but I reckon you would know that already. If a game performs great at first and after say, 2 weeks of playtime degrades and keeps on over-time, that's not acceptable. Performance was never a strong suit for TS3, this goes deep into the engine and how it was written, and later optimized (or rather, not optimized) and translated for TS3. Again, this goes beyond your PC specs, it has nothing to do with it.
I played it with the same setup with the exception of my GFX which was a GTX 970 before, and a GTX 660 back in the day and well, 8GB RAM instead of 16GB RAM. No matter what, the game degraded and became unbearable, even running clean-up mods.
Game engines don't have to be written from the ground up, they can indeed be updated. If a developer has access to the source code (if they licensed one) or they wrote it (applicable here) they can rework it to do anything. There are many different games based on a single engine. You could license the Unreal engine or Unity and create a city builder, an MMORPG and an FPS all on the same engine.
To put it bluntly, if they wanted to turn TS4 into open world, they could, although a much more feasible thing to do would be to update the engine and build a new game on it with open world. Without doing it, they'd have to do twice the amount of work as they would have to update the engine's framework to support open worlds (including full rewrites) and on top of that, update the entire game to use it. This would simply not work, as there will be chain reactions unveiling numerous errors as they do that.
That would be, for me, building on a broken foundation. A lot of time and effort and it still wouldn't be right. We need a new, proper sequel to Sims 1,2 and 3.
Until we have spent seven years, and how much money? $600? $700 or more, just to get it up to par with TS2's depth and or TS3's content? Considering there isn't a TS4 store, I think it would be more than the TS3's cost of all the EPs SPs, and store content, which might lead to $1,000s to get it to feel complete. I'm not prepared to pay another dime. ETA: Four years was long enough to bring it up to snuff.
To dramatically change an already finished game engine from a closed to an open world would be pointless and a waste of resources. Not sure why this is even mentioned when you first talk of its possibility just to realistically shut it down? Not that I'm into TS4's version of an open world as I'm already content with TS3 since nothing better piques my interest as a life simulator besides TS/TS2.
Obviously, games can use the same game engine whether tweaked or not. Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 76, Resident Evil 7, Resident Evil 2, etc. The real question is whether TS2 and TS3 use the same game engine and I personally think not. Go ahead, transfer your TS3 Sims to TS2 or vice versa. Oh? Well, unlike the games mentioned earlier, TS2 and TS3 do not even possess the same or similar graphical level or visual style. Which is why when a modder literally does port an object, hair, clothing, etc from TS2 to TS3 or TS3 to TS2 or TS4 to TS3 or TS3 to TS4 it is quite noticeable. Or at least I can tell the difference.
Apparently you are unaware of the fact that playing TS3 on a PC with minimal or less than system requirements plays a lot differently than on a PC which would equal to or above recommended system requirements, if that did exist at the time. I have started from a desktop computer that not only barely made minimal requirements but the video card was incompatible. The simulation is supposed to be a lively neighborhood but gets dragged down by whatever the capability of the computer's hardware is. A huge difference in gameplay and visuals when I got a gaming laptop and even more so with the gaming desktop I built concerning a much better processor for the overall performance and simulation aspect. Even watching some TS3 Let's Plays of some switching to more capable computers they will usually state how much better the game runs and plays performance wise.
So no, the game cannot push beyond the threshold of what the hardware is capable of. That's like me trying to play Final Fantasy XV or Assassin's Creed Odyssey on this PC and expecting the exact experience of how a recommended computer would play like. Though most things are fine except the video card and/or RAM. It wouldn't either look so great and/or it might constantly lag, stutter, freeze, crash or not play at all. Which is why I say that recommended is how the game is meant to be played no matter what the game is for the best gaming experience.
I still do play TS3 without mods or without game altering mods in some game folders. I've always found the game itself entertaining without mods at all but I started using mods because the lack of curly, wavy, Afro hair styles, braids and dreadlocks. Then that lead to trying out more mods out of curiosity and I found out for me it enhances gameplay or the appearance to my liking even more. And having more control over the in-game options to play the way I want is even better. Everyone has a different reason for choosing to use mods and does not automatically mean its because the game is boring. If that were the case, I'm not like some, I'm not going to spend my time or effort at all on a game that I do not care for. If it cannot stand on its own then I forget it and move on.
Yeah, minimal to no lag. Usually, when I spin the camera there's slight stutter but you are also forgetting the resources it takes up when recording any game compared to gameplay without recording at all. Though, I find Bandicam much better and smoother than ShadowPlay when it comes to TS3. And I have all EP's/SP's/Store Content plus all settings maxed out so if that's all the stutter I get which doesn't bother me then so what. I'm overall happy. But that doesn't mean I'm excusing the developers from what they never fixed or optimized. I'm just saying TS3 runs pretty well for what it accomplishes performance wise, to me.
Unfortunately, the developers did not, as far as I know of, go into any kind of detail about the maintenance of save files. Such as a suggestion of resetting the whole neighborhood every few Sim weeks for any broken objects, etc. Be mindful of personal and family inventories and try not to have so much excess of items. The more content on a lot, eventually, it could drop performance. Etc. It would have been nice to have some tips like that but instead I think most players just had to find out the hard way not knowing any better. But once it is known, then holding on to saves for years and years is not too problematic. Though, I'm still learning and there are all kinds of helpful guides to manage save files.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I'm glad it's gone tbh. It was the pinnacle of fragmenting content and making it flawed like savvy seller or the indulgent bakery. And yes, if the game at this point in time does not meet someone's satisfaction it is highly unlikely that it will ever change. I most certainly agree with you there.
It was mentioned since you said that you thought the engines had to be written from the ground up, which is not always necessary as they can be modified to do anything.
It's not that I am unaware, I just know how the game performs when it comes to simulation, not performance. If you have a low spec PC the game is still trying to push what it is written to do. If your PC cannot handle it, the result as the game pushes is lag, stutter, freezes, bugs. The game won't automatically recognize your PC is underspec'd and stop sending sims to venues. Routing was one of the big contributors to lag in TS3, with lower end PCs the issue becomes harsher for example. So yes, the game can and will push past your specs. The result? Well, among many things, your game could simply freeze or crash, depends on what bottlenecks first. Even with my specs my town wqs far from alive, and venues were always empty and vanilla the game did little to push more than a few sims to it. This is a problem within the code, which is why I used NRaas to force the game to push the "Go To Venue with active sim" line harder.
Again I'm not forgetting that recording takes a toll on performance. Yet that performance you recorded is akin to what I get on new saves for a few sim weeks, then it goes south. I could not, without Errortrap and Overwatch, have a healthy save for over a few months. I read and did everything that was ever written for TS3. Inventories, clean ups, manual save cleans, disable memories, play on cleaner worlds, lower sim count, perfect routing, mods to fix and cleanup, the list goes on.
I feel like we are going to go back and forth on this, I'm glad you keep enjoying TS3 and to me it ran its course after 7 years and remains my favorite. However I will always be very concerned at how many broken things were left in it, and how the same aspects of some half baked content and buggy performance is seen on TS4 too. And despite being my favorite I am very critical of all its shortcomings and performance issues I experienced after so many years of trying everything and having to start fresh saves. To be fair I am critical of them all. This business model of heavy DLCs is something I dislike, and I'd expect resounding quality from their products but nope, I'm left as one of those "gotta mod the game" folks because some things IMO just do not make sense at all.
I believe it's over 74k... That's a lot of freaking money... Either way, I too am glad they chose not to add a store this time. I bought things from the store back when you could watch ads for free simponts and when they would give you simpoints for registering your packs online. I refuse to spend all that money on simponts to get things. Plus there were some bugs with some of the store content. Like the fryer, for example, I ran into bugs with that.
TS2 and TS3 share an engine. TS3 is just updated TS2 engine. TS4 is on a different engine, that obviously was not designed for what TS4 needs.
?
Without any mods the game just assigns sims to where they need to be. If there's not enough kids, or pets, your neighbours will randomly have a kid with anyone, or get a pet. If there's not enough couples, your game will make someone a couple. Unless you mod it, very little is taken into account when assigning who lives where with whom.
For it to be superior to previous versions for me, it has to overcome the limitations that been built in since it's development and sadly that may never happen as you may have to tear down and start over. I just do not see it ever becoming equal or more superior to it's previous versions. Some people are not willing to wait for that to happen as well.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
Show proof that TS3 game engine is based on TS2 game engine. I might not know much about game development but I find it difficult to believe to have two extremely different methods of gameplay mechanics and graphics but both being from the same game engine. I would think just "updating" wouldn't cause too huge of a change hence the RE7 and RE2, etc examples. For more innovative features, I also would think a developer has to create a brand new game engine in order to incorporate the latest technology in video games. So unless there is evidence, I'm not one to just take anyone's word for it.
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I usually don't play with Story Progression on. Though, yes even with it off, Sims do still get assigned jobs if they already do not have one. Other than that, I think, the A.I. takes over which is great but unfortunately, some things Sims cannot do autonomously. While story progression is a good idea and a step in the right direction, it wasn't implemented the best and I wish there were a lot of individual features players could turn on or off, etc. Basically, have more control over the whole neighborhood and Sims and what story progression can and cannot do.
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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old
Whether some agree with the lengthened life span or not...the choice is ultimately up to the players. Is it worth it?
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I appreciate your passion about the games but you guys are going off topic. This thread is not to compare TS4 to TS3, but you can use some examples about the older games to prove points of why this game has had enough time (4 years) to complete it's potiential or maybe some don't think so. But we aren't here to debate whether TS2 and TS3 share the same game engine, maybe they do but I sort of doubt that. TS3 used Maya language, I'm not sure TS2 used that, and TS4 uses Python, so no, they aren't exactly the same or even using the same computer languages.
ETA: I don't mean you personally but all those going off topic debating if all the games use the same game engine. This takes the theme off topic a little.
Edit: Apologies Cinebar, to keep it more on topic IMO I don't think it needs another 3 years. I personally want to see more tweaks and content but I do not deem it necessary. On the other hand their inability to fix years old bugs leaves me afraid of how well they could execute TS5 and make it a unique sequel if they cannot get this one right as far as performance and bugs. Their pattern of messing up other packs with new releases is concerning.
I sometimes read that some are having issues now with TS4 lagging, etc and have a capable or more than capable PC. Lag, stuttering, freezing and crashing are not uncommon in video games anyway, however, some claim TS4's game engine to be the most superior of all in the main series. Despite it not doing any better than any other Sims game implying the opposite. And technically, it has the weakest and most limited game engine and to me gameplay mechanics (Everything you do is dictated by emotions and has constrictive gameplay such as having to complete checklists, etc which completely ruin a player's freedom and strongly discourages a sandbox play style since there are consequences for ignoring the checklist to ensure the party is a success.), according to progression. And yes, there are some elements in TS2 with that checklist for the headmaster, dates, etc. Fortunately, TS3 got rid of most of that to focus on giving the player the most control and actually playing the game not a mini-game.
Also, concerning lag in TS4, I have read something referred to as Simulation Lag where Sims just sit around and do nothing for Sim hours before actually being able to perform whatever said task, etc. As I am aware of now, a mod fixes this...a mod? Not the developers? And that definitely is something major not minor unless people are trying to play TS4 on an incompatible computer, though, I read that is not always the case nor do some use mods at all. So another 3 years of TS4? Not to mention, all the other unfixed glitches piling up in the same exact manner they did with TS3. Did anything really change in how they commit to quality control based on actions alone?
And yes, in TS3 Sims can also stall for some Sim hours after being told what to do, however, from what I noticed this has to do with either an low-end computer that cannot process the simulating correctly and that is usually the first thing that goes to compensate for insufficient hardware or a high-end computer whether with or without mods that the player lacks to manage and maintain their game. And unfortunately, I do not recall the discussion ever being brought up as something by developers concerning the maintenance. That would explain why some are having issues thinking the game should just work endlessly without player intervention but doesn't seem to be the case with either TS3 or TS4. However, in TS4 you cannot edit the town to get rid of things that is taking up resources as it's all permanently in place for the illusion. Maybe that takes up more resources than TS3 ever could because it's looping an animation/object/effect which over time with new things added might contribute and affect the overall performance.
Thinking about the nature of the series, in-game progress would eventually increase with more Sims/Households, content, features, etc. There is a limit to how much one's computer can handle before the performance takes a hit. Some think TS3 is too much but TS4 is/will be the excessive one. Of course, every single EP/GP/SP released doesn't mean it has to be bought and/or installed but is a personal preference if your computer can handle it. Hmm, I wonder is there testing that goes into the collection as a whole than just base game and whatever EP/GP/SP for a gaming desktop/laptop performance wise?
What is the point of TS4, let alone extending it? It's not a real sequel, it doesn't really improve or advance overall. That's evident in the base game/game engine alone. It definitely retrogressed and that's not okay for price they are asking. Non-existent trade-offs because it doesn't do anything major any better than TS2/TS3 and in some cases actually worse. What did it bring to the franchise that's so worthwhile and innovative to at the very least justify all of its shortcomings?
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
Having said that though, TS4 doesn't even come close to being an improvement over TS3 imo. Requiring me to wait on a load screen every time I travel is a major irritation. I do enjoy playing TS4 when I am not having to deal with buggy gameplay or performance issues, but I've been ready to move on to TS5 after a few months of dealing with problems and buggy game play every time they come out with something new for TS4. I have learned that when a new patch or pack comes out, I need to not play for awhile to give them time to fix the problems they have created. Should any game in this day and age influence me to stop playing their game for the sake of my peace of mind and sanity?
I hope that TS5 can give me the best of both worlds and even blow my mind with new technology, as well as some new content never before experienced. An open world, a color wheel so my sims can wear matching outfits, the ability to create a band and perform at venues, slow dancing, apartments I can tear down and rebuild if I like, the ability to add or change any existing lots in the world, and some really, really advanced technology which allows my sim's house to have a functioning doorbell.
How is it after what happened to TS3 (how the game was left) and what's currently happening with TS4 can you really trust them to not follow the same path again with TS5?
It's like the saying, "Fool me once; shame on you. Fool me twice; shame on me. Fool me three times; shame on us both".
I'm not trying to say that someone shouldn't have hope, however, I just don't understand why someone would have their hopes up for a highly possible third "disappointment"* just based on Eaxis' track record.
*Matter of opinion, but I digress.