Forum Announcement, Click Here to Read More From EA_Cade.

Cognitive Disabilities and Mental Health Disabilities in The Sims 4

«13
Recently, the Gurus have come and told Simmers that they have been thinking about adding disabilities into The Sims 4. I think this is a great step forward in inclusion. There are wide range of kids - and adults - with disabilities who enjoy playing The Sims 4, including myself. Not all of us are interested in giving our Sims-selves disabilities, but I know a large number of us are.

I'd like to give my feedback about how I'd like cognitive disabilities and mental health disabilities to look in the game. My experience here: I am cognitively disabled myself (I am autistic), and I have multiple mental health disabilities. I am a disability justice activist and have worked with several disability rights organizations. I've lived with a range of people with disabilities, including cognitive disabilities, mental health disabilities, physical disabilities, and mental health disabilities. On my college university, I've worked in an Access and Inclusion group to make the campus more accessible, and I run a disability org for students. I have some thoughts about how physical and sensory disabilities would work as well, but it's really not my expertise, so I'll be focusing on cognitive and mental health disabilities.

If cognitive disabilities and mental health disabilities were implemented in the game, here's how I think they might best be handled:
  1. The Sims 4 team should consult actual people with disabilities in implementing any new features or mechanics for people with disabilities, and should be careful to present disability in a fully respectful light. By 'consulting actual people', I mean actual people - not our parents, siblings, or organizations that represent us without us. While it would be fine to consult those groups as well, they should first and foremost listen to actual disabled people.
  2. Cognitive Disabilities and Mental Health Disabilities should not be treated as game 'traits' - instead, they should be a separate category that can be checked 'on' or 'off'. Many people feel that their disabilities are not *just* 'traits' and widely impact their lives. Additionally, players who want to create disabled sims should not be punished by having a game trait slot removed. (Note: from now on, when I say "game trait", I am referring to the actual mechanic of traits that is currently in the game. If I say "disability trait", I mean an actual trait, symptom, or experience associated with a disability.)
  3. Individual cognitive or mental health disabilities should not have discreet options for different disabilities. Players should be able to check a "neurodivergent" box (neurodivergent meaning a person with any kind of cognitive or mental health disability), and from there should be able to select certain disability traits that their Sim presents. There are far too many cognitive and mental health disabilities to include everyone, and many cognitive and mental health disabilities can look different from person to person, even if it's the same condition. Many traits also overlap from condition to condition. This gives people the freedom to build a Sim with a 'brain' that most closely matches what they'd like.
  4. Sims maintain their cognitive or mental health disability traits throughout life, and this disability remains in the ghost life stage. Many people with disabilities identify strongly with their disability and would not cure it if they had the choice. It also sends a bad message that a 'good' afterlife would, by necessity, mean someone wasn't disabled. Disabled people can have good (after)lives and be happy not only in spite of their disability but because of it! Of course, players should be able to remove these disability traits through cheats or CAS.
  5. Townies should be able to randomly generate with disabilities. This would be a *big deal* for all sorts of people with disabilities playing the game. We hardly ever see ourselves represented, and it might help people feel more self-confident making Sims that look like themselves.

So, those are my thoughts about the broader implementation of cognitive disabilities. A lot of this also applies to physical disabilities, of course. Next, I want to focus on how something like autism might be implemented within my current dream goal of how this system would work:
  1. Like other cognitive disabilities, autism should not be a game trait that someone can choose to add to their character. Instead, you should be able to pick from a range of disability traits that sum up to make your sim have the disability you think is relevant to them
  2. There should be more options than simple 'social awkwardness' for autistic-like disability traits, including...
  3. Sensory Seeking disability traits and Sensory Avoiding disability traits. You should be able to chose if a sim avoids or seeks certain types of senses, or is neutral to them. (Example: Sim A seeks sound, but avoids taste). This is a heavily simplified version of how sensory sensitivity might work, but a more complex one would likely be very difficult and costly. A sim who seeks sound might get an extra happy moodlet from loud music, but one who avoids taste might get uncomfortable moodlets from certain, randomly generated food items. Alternatively, in reverse, a sim who avoids sound might get an uncomfortable moodlet from loud music nearby, fireworks, or other loud stimuli, and one who seeks taste might get an extra happy moodlet from eating certain foods. A sim who is touch averse might get uncomfortable or angry moodlets when hugged, and a sim that's touch seeking might have increashed wishes for hugs, or might like a weighted blanket. These disability traits should be usable for any sim.
  4. 'Stim' or 'Fidgeting' idle animations. Many autistic people, as well as other neurodivergent people, do something called 'stimming'. Most people are familiar with autistic children flapping their hands, this is stimming. However, other things, like clicking pens, rocking back and forth, twirling your hair, or walking on the tips of your toes might be stimming. I think an option to pick from a list of maybe 6 or so common stims would be great. Your sims would be able to do these animations while idle/not doing anything, or maybe when multitasking for something like watching TV or listening to music. Again, any Sim could do these stims/fidgets.
  5. There shouldn't be a "socially awkward" game trait, but including some aspects of neurodivergent social interaction would be neat. I'd like to be able to make characters who dislike eye contact, or Sims with a strange sense of humor who's jokes might fall flat with other Sims, especially sims who don't also have the disability trait for humor. Maybe neurodivergent Sims have an easier time building up friendship with other neurodivergent Sims (I've found that this is often the case).
  6. Rituals would be a great addition - lots of neurodivergent people like rituals, like doing things in a certain order. I think it would be fun to be able to make a ritualistic Sim (with a randomly generated, but plausible ritual, such as always having a morning routine in a certain order) that has a tense moodlet if it's not fulfilled, and a happy moodlet when it is. This would be relevant for all sorts of Sims, including autistic Sims, Sims with OCD, etc.

So what does everyone think? I've been thinking about how an autistic Sim would look like for a long time, but I only recently though of a broader system to allow for all sorts of cognitive and mental health disabilities. Do you have a cognitive or mental health disability? How would you like to see yourself in the game? Do you think that it *should* be game traits, or would you prefer a more flexible system like the one I mentioned? Would you prefer not to see it at all? And for simmers without disabilities, do you think you would make Sims with disabilities? Do you like my ideas?

Comments

  • CinderellimouseCinderellimouse Posts: 19,380 Member
    edited September 2018
    I think these ideas are really interesting and well thought out. I like the idea of having a dedicated area of the UI where you can build your own cognitive experience. I think this a great way of allowing people to create their own experiences in the game without feeling like they're being labelled or thrown under some kind of umbrella trait.


    Post edited by EA_Mage on
  • orangehippogrifforangehippogriff Posts: 946 Member
    I really really hope they add this and that they include anxiety disorders. Seeing my disability reflected in a sim would mean the world to me. You have some really great ideas :)
  • changelingschangelings Posts: 40 Member
    Bump! I still think people might find this interesting.
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    edited September 2018
    @changelings the idea of townies being generated with disabilities would infuriate some simmers who don't want disabilities "thrust upon them"-so you would need a way for it to be turned off But I am aware that Sim Guru Grant, one of the developers wouldn't want autism/mental health to be a trait. I'm one of the ones who do want disabilities.


    and I know that so far they talked to people (Simmers) who use wheelchairs and hearing impaired or deaf folks.
    6adMCGP.gif
  • Mariefoxprice83Mariefoxprice83 Posts: 8,106 Member
    I'm not sure about this. On the one hand, diversity is a good thing, but on the other hand it could go very wrong.
    Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    I'm not sure about this. On the one hand, diversity is a good thing, but on the other hand it could go very wrong.

    That's why you consult others -- not just people with disabilities but experts in the field.

    The separate UI for building your own disabilities is a really great idea. It should be accessible at any time -- you might have a Sim with cognitive or mental health issues after an accident, for example (in a particular storyline) and when Sims age up to elder they might develop cognitive issues (a bit more absent-minded, perhaps, or they have problems learning new skills). I'll use mods like UI Cheats to change an elder's traits, like an Active Sim might become Lazy, or a Neat Sim might become a Slob.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • TiarellaTiarella Posts: 661 Member
    I would :love: love to have this in my game!

    I don't think they'll do it for TS4, and I fear that if they tried, it wouldn't work very well--not because the idea isn't good, but because they won't allocate the resources needed to do a good job. (I've become pretty cynical about EA using TS4 as a cash cow. /moo :unamused: ) Nonetheless, it's a :star: great :star: suggestion, and I'd want to buy an expansion pack that added so much to the game.

    Players have been asking for sims with disabilities since The Sims first took off. Closest I remember Maxis/EA coming was decorative walking canes for elderly sims--was that TS2 or 3? I forget. It's time!

    (In answer to your question, I'm physically disabled, and have many neurodivergent relatives.)
  • changelingschangelings Posts: 40 Member
    MadameLee wrote: »
    @changelings the idea of townies being generated with disabilities would infuriate some simmers who don't want disabilities "thrust upon them"-so you would need a way for it to be turned off But I am aware that Sim Guru Grant, one of the developers wouldn't want autism/mental health to be a trait. I'm one of the ones who do want disabilities.


    and I know that so far they talked to people (Simmers) who use wheelchairs and hearing impaired or deaf folks.

    Sim Guru Grant doesn't want it to be a trait - and neither do I! It would be distasteful and oversimplified, as Grant put it, to make it something on the level of "Loves outdoors".

    Not wanting disability to be a trait =/= not wanting disabilities! It just means it would be implemented in a different way. I used the word "trait" in my post, but I was referring to a separate system with the same name (I couldn't think of anything better).

    Anyway, I'm excited!
    Tiarella wrote: »
    I would :love: love to have this in my game!

    I don't think they'll do it for TS4, and I fear that if they tried, it wouldn't work very well--not because the idea isn't good, but because they won't allocate the resources needed to do a good job. (I've become pretty cynical about EA using TS4 as a cash cow. /moo :unamused: ) Nonetheless, it's a :star: great :star: suggestion, and I'd want to buy an expansion pack that added so much to the game.

    Players have been asking for sims with disabilities since The Sims first took off. Closest I remember Maxis/EA coming was decorative walking canes for elderly sims--was that TS2 or 3? I forget. It's time!

    (In answer to your question, I'm physically disabled, and have many neurodivergent relatives.)

    I'm a little worried too about it being done poorly, but they seem genuinely interested and I've really been liking the way they've handled things lately. They *have* put out significant free content updates in the past (gender overhaul, toddlers, and then the recent Carribean update) as well as really well done, non-"cash cow" type things like Seasons, which so many of us genuinely loved. While I don't think a system as complex as the one I described would happen, I think they might be able to come up with a similar workable idea for free. And they did say that such an update would be free if it were to happen!

    Hope it all works out.
  • ElectricGileqElectricGileq Posts: 11 New Member
    I really like the idea (though not directly stated) that the Sims doesn't use the same names as in the real world, but rather, just lets the Sims be as they are. That is exciting, without introdicing the whirlwind of controversy that would come with named disabilities. This would also help Maxis avoid all kinds of potential legal issues.
  • PlayerSinger2010PlayerSinger2010 Posts: 3,267 Member
    As someone who has a mental health disorder, I do not want that in my game at all. I play Sims to get away from the fact that I have a disorder. I don't want to have to deal with it in my game too.
  • Shadow_AssassinShadow_Assassin Posts: 1,669 Member
    edited October 2018
    I have a whim when created a sim who was growing in terrible period: mental traumas
    It can choose in CAS and can checked on or off, influence daily life, can cure but may hard. The trauma types include: experienced war, experienced unrest/high handed period, experienced serious love hurt, etc.
    Sim may have excessive negative emotions in some interactions(mainly some of mean/mischief/romantic), has negative emotions when near some scene what won't make others have negative emotion(such as experienced war afraid loudly sound, experienced unrest/high handed period afraid protest/speech, experienced serious love hurt afraid romantic<different from unflirty>), sim may startle awake when sleeping.(maybe sound like PTSD?)
    Post edited by Shadow_Assassin on
    Entrance to the abyss
    sims.fandom.com/wiki/User:ShadeAssassin
    It's a scratch-off ticket
    There's a "_" in my usename. My usename is Shadow_Assassin, not ShadowAssassin or others

    Sometimes it's not me who talks to you, it's machine translation

    She/Her but you can call me as any pronouns
  • MovottiMovotti Posts: 7,774 Member
    I am disabled, and I do not want disability in my game.
    I use the game to escape my disabilities, not play at them.
    AmusingExhaustedArchaeopteryx-max-1mb.gif
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    Movotti wrote: »
    I am disabled, and I do not want disability in my game.
    I use the game to escape my disabilities, not play at them.

    just because you don't want it in your game doesn't mean other people might want it in theirs everyone has a different idea of a utopia. I mean you DO want beach word based on your home country of "Down Under" or "Oz" right? Some people don't want a Aussie Beach world but a island beach world..or something.. how would you feel if someone said that about your ideas.
    6adMCGP.gif
  • MovottiMovotti Posts: 7,774 Member
    MadameLee wrote: »
    Movotti wrote: »
    I am disabled, and I do not want disability in my game.
    I use the game to escape my disabilities, not play at them.

    just because you don't want it in your game doesn't mean other people might want it in theirs everyone has a different idea of a utopia.
    And how well have they done so far for not forcing unwanted content on players?
    I hear a lot of complaints about certain things... If they made things to toggle off completely, maybe then there's possibility of things working.
    I'm not so adverse to the concept of things being included, so long as there is the option to toggle them off completely. Or better yet, players who want this sort of content should need to toggle it on, to access it, thereby not forcing anyone at all to have to suffer it.
    It's incredibly rude and thoughtless, and possibly harmful to force people to accept disability into the game. Disabled people are not here for everyone elses entertainment. We are not a toy to entertain.

    I mean you DO want beach word based on your home country of "Down Under" or "Oz" right? Some people don't want a Aussie Beach world but a island beach world..or something.. how would you feel if someone said that about your ideas.
    I would rather a beach world based on Brighton England.
    Or a nice island location, like the Outer Hebrides.
    We already have a tropical location, it's time for something different. Not more of the same poo.

    AmusingExhaustedArchaeopteryx-max-1mb.gif
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    Movotti wrote: »
    MadameLee wrote: »
    Movotti wrote: »
    I am disabled, and I do not want disability in my game.
    I use the game to escape my disabilities, not play at them.

    just because you don't want it in your game doesn't mean other people might want it in theirs everyone has a different idea of a utopia.
    And how well have they done so far for not forcing unwanted content on players?
    I hear a lot of complaints about certain things... If they made things to toggle off completely, maybe then there's possibility of things working.
    I'm not so adverse to the concept of things being included, so long as there is the option to toggle them off completely. Or better yet, players who want this sort of content should need to toggle it on, to access it, thereby not forcing anyone at all to have to suffer it.
    It's incredibly rude and thoughtless, and possibly harmful to force people to accept disability into the game. Disabled people are not here for everyone elses entertainment. We are not a toy to entertain.

    I mean you DO want beach word based on your home country of "Down Under" or "Oz" right? Some people don't want a Aussie Beach world but a island beach world..or something.. how would you feel if someone said that about your ideas.
    I would rather a beach world based on Brighton England.
    Or a nice island location, like the Outer Hebrides.
    We already have a tropical location, it's time for something different. Not more of the same poo.

    @Movotti I'm not disagreeing with you but the reasons that Sims team is looking at including disabilities isn't for the entertainment aspect but for those people who are disabled who actually want to be able to make themselves "realistically"? Like let's say you're in a wheelchair and have been most of your life- and you play the sims-and you can create an almost perfect version of yourself but one's thing is lacking-a wheelchair how would you feel in that situation?


    Did you know that back in 2013 that a woman created a company that sold 100,000 Down Syndrome Doll's and had another 100,000 or so preorders for more dolls? The woman only made the company because her daughter when a child (9 as of 2013, the child was 13) couldn't find a doll that looked like her. It's not just parents of children with Down Syndrome who order this doll-the first buyer was a Mom of a "normal" child but the child had a friend who had Down Syndrome and the parent wanted a doll that looked like friend for her child's collection of dolls.

    My own simself is almost perfect-but I have 1 problem with the glasses already in game-that when the sim-self goes to work the sims apparently wears contacts-(the glasses disappear) and my other problem is on at least 2 days most weeks-I wear a hearing aid on my left hear and at the moment we don't have hearing aids. (There's one CC type). I view both as part of me when I wear them-I only been wearing glasses since I was 17. I wore a hearing aid from Gr.1-3. Then I stopped until I had to start again in 2013-

    I was really happy when one of the teeth in the patch pre-vampires pack matched similar teeth in my own mouth.
    6adMCGP.gif
  • MovottiMovotti Posts: 7,774 Member
    MadameLee wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with you but the reasons that Sims team is looking at including disabilities isn't for the entertainment aspect but for those people who are disabled who actually want to be able to make themselves "realistically"?
    The sheer diversity and complexity of disabilities means they have no chance of making everyone's disability realistic.
    Like let's say you're in a wheelchair and have been most of your life- and you play the sims-and you can create an almost perfect version of yourself but one's thing is lacking-a wheelchair how would you feel in that situation?
    Quite good actually.
    I love that my sims are not restricted physically as I am likely to become.
    I dread the high possibility that I'm going to end up in a wheelchair. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

    Did you know that back in 2013 that a woman created a company that sold 100,000 Down Syndrome Doll's and had another 100,000 or so preorders for more dolls? The woman only made the company because her daughter when a child (9 as of 2013, the child was 13) couldn't find a doll that looked like her. It's not just parents of children with Down Syndrome who order this doll-the first buyer was a Mom of a "normal" child but the child had a friend who had Down Syndrome and the parent wanted a doll that looked like friend for her child's collection of dolls.
    I prefer dolls without faces. They're more inclusive.
    My own simself is almost perfect-but I have 1 problem with the glasses already in game-that when the sim-self goes to work the sims apparently wears contacts-(the glasses disappear) and my other problem is on at least 2 days most weeks-I wear a hearing aid on my left hear and at the moment we don't have hearing aids. (There's one CC type). I view both as part of me when I wear them-I only been wearing glasses since I was 17. I wore a hearing aid from Gr.1-3. Then I stopped until I had to start again in 2013-
    The game doesn't include electric kettles.
    Outside of the US they are a normal, everyday part of life for many parts of the world, but the realism of them is not included in the game. Perhaps they should include that aspect of GLOBAL reality before the minority of disabilities?

    Including disabilities creates too much risk of doing it very wrong. It's safer for the franchise to not include them at this point.



    AmusingExhaustedArchaeopteryx-max-1mb.gif
  • TentacrocaclesTentacrocacles Posts: 449 Member
    I really like your ideas OP.

    I have an anxiety disorder and depression and I find that when people who haven't had it describe it, they don't really seem to understand what it is.

    It would be really nice if the gurus could open up a thread - if they are seriously considering this - where we can talk about our disabilities and our experience with them. What it looks like and feels like. For example; a lot of people think about anxiety disorders as constant severe panic attacks and breakdowns. But I guess in a sim what it would look like is more frequent tense emotional states from being generally overwhelmed, avoiding going outside because it's just too much, fitful sleeping and nightmares, having a ritual when I'm alone where I check all the windows of the house so I feel safe, making very few friends, and avoiding social situations.

    Also when I do have an anxiety attack it doesn't look like a hysterical fit, it's more I sit with my knees to my chest, have laboured breathing, will want to visit a hospital, and I will shake a lot. Like a chihuahua.

    It would be really nice if they include cognitive issues if, as you said, they include some sort of UI where we could pick what kind of disability the sim has and the specific traits of the disability. Perhaps in anxietys case there would be a severity slider (for how often the symptoms come up. So that way you can have a mild or severe case) and check boxes for anxious behaviours/symptoms.

    It would also be good if our sims could receive support or assistance for their disability symptoms like we do in real life. I wouldn't want receiving support to make the symptoms go away but I'd like to show a sim learning to cope with whatever their disability is. I have a nephew with autism who has his own teachers assistant at school and goes to special sessions where he learns coping methods.

    From what I've seen it's really helped him with food aversion and calming himself down when he gets overwhelmed.

    So I think it'd be good if that was included.
    A link to my most recent build in the gallery

    tumblr_inline_okebxv2e9a1shjovd_1280.png
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    edited October 2018
    I really like your ideas OP.

    I have an anxiety disorder and depression and I find that when people who haven't had it describe it, they don't really seem to understand what it is.

    It would be really nice if the gurus could open up a thread - if they are seriously considering this - where we can talk about our disabilities and our experience with them. What it looks like and feels like. For example; a lot of people think about anxiety disorders as constant severe panic attacks and breakdowns. But I guess in a sim what it would look like is more frequent tense emotional states from being generally overwhelmed, avoiding going outside because it's just too much, fitful sleeping and nightmares, having a ritual when I'm alone where I check all the windows of the house so I feel safe, making very few friends, and avoiding social situations.

    Also when I do have an anxiety attack it doesn't look like a hysterical fit, it's more I sit with my knees to my chest, have laboured breathing, will want to visit a hospital, and I will shake a lot. Like a chihuahua.

    It would be really nice if they include cognitive issues if, as you said, they include some sort of UI where we could pick what kind of disability the sim has and the specific traits of the disability. Perhaps in anxietys case there would be a severity slider (for how often the symptoms come up. So that way you can have a mild or severe case) and check boxes for anxious behaviours/symptoms.

    It would also be good if our sims could receive support or assistance for their disability symptoms like we do in real life. I wouldn't want receiving support to make the symptoms go away but I'd like to show a sim learning to cope with whatever their disability is. I have a nephew with autism who has his own teachers assistant at school and goes to special sessions where he learns coping methods.

    From what I've seen it's really helped him with food aversion and calming himself down when he gets overwhelmed.

    So I think it'd be good if that was included.

    @Tentacrocacles the main problem with having a thread on here is that it will dissolve into arguments because how do they deal with people w/ disabilities who like @Movotti don't want it to be "forced on them" since those folks play the game to escape? Despite the fact anyone at anytime or any age or race can become disabled? Like on a thread someone made in early Sept but it had to close on Sept 21st because people couldn't stay civilised- like I kept stating that I'm disabled and one person claimed that because I wasn't in a wheelchair didn't mean i was disabled.. despite myself having said I had hearing and vision problems..
    6adMCGP.gif
  • KityyKatty519KityyKatty519 Posts: 24 Member
    I would love to have this in the sims! I sometimes hate the sims for being too perfect and love the problems you got when becoming a vampire. I think it would be awesome to add on a different panel in CAS (turn it on off) where you can choose which (lets just call them symptoms) you have, I am for example a big control freak, when things go different then usual (holidays, vacations, new family members ) assume i don't really like that at first. something like that.

    I think this would make the franchise so much better, as long as they don't ask money for it :). I think you should be able to turn it off completely, because i like to play the sims to relax, not only turn it off for YOUR sims, but like the entire world...
  • MaggieMarleyMaggieMarley Posts: 5,299 Member
    edited October 2018
    I really hope mental illness doesn’t make it into the game. I had a mental illness which led to me doing things in my teenage years which has permanently devastated my physical health. I am now 20 and have to live the rest of my (probably shortened) life like this. I don’t want mental illness in the game because it’s caused enough misery in my life and sims is my escape. Besides that, the thought of something which has caused me so much pain being a source of other people’s entertainment (because “oooo it makes the game so much more fun/interesting!” - well excuse me, it doesn’t make real life fun or interesting) really upsets me.
  • EA_CianEA_Cian Posts: 1,359 EA Staff (retired)
    Hi folks,

    Let's please be respectful of the fact that yes, disabilities come in many different forms. Let's also be mindful that folks do have different perspectives on this as a possible feature for different reasons. If this isn't something you want in the game, you can say that, but consider that this is a thread for a possible implementation of certain disabilities. Let's try to stay focused on the OP's implementation and now if disabilities in general are a good idea, and how other threads about this subject have gone in the past. If we continue down that road the thread will have to be locked.
    ~my hair color is frequently changing, so my Sim reflects that~

    Have questions about necroposting? Check out our Necroposting thread.

    Bugs/Issues should be posted on Answers HQ, learn more over on Update on The Sims 4 Help Center.
  • mysterionzmysterionz Posts: 3,608 Member
    I really hope mental illness doesn’t make it into the game. I had a mental illness which led to me doing things in my teenage years which has permanently devastated my physical health. I am now 20 and have to live the rest of my (probably shortened) life like this. I don’t want mental illness in the game because it’s caused enough misery in my life and sims is my escape. Besides that, the thought of something which has caused me so much pain being a source of other people’s entertainment (because “oooo it makes the game so much more fun/interesting!” - well excuse me, it doesn’t make real life fun or interesting) really upsets me.

    Your point is spot on. I have been struggling with a vitamin d deficienty for the past few months. Because of it, I had symptoms that mimicked depression (tiredness, iratibility, destruction to one's self). Don't make fun or joke about mental illness.

    Oh hamburgers!
  • ScarletSimEaterScarletSimEater Posts: 126 Member
    Let's break "disabilities" down:

    -Minor physical disabilities. Glasses and hearing aids can just be added as CAS accssories. Disabilities that can be completely controlled by things like an inhaler would probably work best with a simple inhaler/pill bottle/etc object that, when in a sim's inventory, prompts an occasional relevant animation on their part. It'd be entirely cosmetic, but it'd also be overwhelmingly opt-in (in the few cases it isn't, I've never seen somebody complain about townies with glasses), and simple enough to add.

    -Gross motor disabilities. Mostly these cover crutches and wheelchairs. In theory, you could handle these by just putting a relevant object in a sim's inventory, and creating a priority system. (So having both crutches and a wheelchair in inventory won't cause weird conflicts.) In practice it'd be a major beast to animate all that, and working around built-in game elements will also be a pain. (How will wheelchair users handle stairs? Will they require an empty seat at a table to roll up to - meaning a chairless spot that normal sims can't engage with - or will they do something to the chair to be able to engage?) I'm not intrinsically against, but practical implementation will wind up becoming a major headache.

    -Invisible but practical physical disabilities. Anything that has a regular impact on your quality of life, but isn't either immediately obvious or can be medicated down to a negligible impact. Frankly, EA should just have a few more illness animations that mimic vague illness indicators (stomachache, headache, nausea, etc.) and let modders go to town making their own traits. There's no way EA can create enough or to meet everybody's idea of how these traits should be handled, so it's best to assist modders to create all the variety of traits that anybody could ever want.

    -Mental disabilities. Hard nope. We live in a world where "autistic" and "🐸🐸🐸🐸" are still used as insults. Some people will use those traits as punishment for sims they don't like, and/or heavy handedly applying them as the whole of a sim's personality. Other people will inevitably feel that the way the sims team applies these traits offends them. EA is smart to stay well away from this clusterplum.

    I could see mental disabilities being handled as traits if the traits were vague and general enough not to point to any group of people in particular. (E.G: "Gloomy" for depression, "Erratic" as a catch-all because the name "Insane" already had to be changed, etc.) Anything more finely tuned than that, I don't trust that the sims are smart enough not to make a mess of it.
  • MadameLeeMadameLee Posts: 32,748 Member
    edited October 2018
    Let's break "disabilities" down:

    -Minor physical disabilities. Glasses and hearing aids can just be added as CAS accssories. Disabilities that can be completely controlled by things like an inhaler would probably work best with a simple inhaler/pill bottle/etc object that, when in a sim's inventory, prompts an occasional relevant animation on their part. It'd be entirely cosmetic, but it'd also be overwhelmingly opt-in (in the few cases it isn't, I've never seen somebody complain about townies with glasses), and simple enough to add.

    -Gross motor disabilities. Mostly these cover crutches and wheelchairs. In theory, you could handle these by just putting a relevant object in a sim's inventory, and creating a priority system. (So having both crutches and a wheelchair in inventory won't cause weird conflicts.) In practice it'd be a major beast to animate all that, and working around built-in game elements will also be a pain. (How will wheelchair users handle stairs? Will they require an empty seat at a table to roll up to - meaning a chairless spot that normal sims can't engage with - or will they do something to the chair to be able to engage?) I'm not intrinsically against, but practical implementation will wind up becoming a major headache.

    -Invisible but practical physical disabilities. Anything that has a regular impact on your quality of life, but isn't either immediately obvious or can be medicated down to a negligible impact. Frankly, EA should just have a few more illness animations that mimic vague illness indicators (stomachache, headache, nausea, etc.) and let modders go to town making their own traits. There's no way EA can create enough or to meet everybody's idea of how these traits should be handled, so it's best to assist modders to create all the variety of traits that anybody could ever want.

    -Mental disabilities. Hard nope. We live in a world where "autistic" and "plum" are still used as insults. Some people will use those traits as punishment for sims they don't like, and/or heavy handedly applying them as the whole of a sim's personality. Other people will inevitably feel that the way the sims team applies these traits offends them. EA is smart to stay well away from this clusterplum.

    I could see mental disabilities being handled as traits if the traits were vague and general enough not to point to any group of people in particular. (E.G: "Gloomy" for depression, "Erratic" as a catch-all because the name "Insane" already had to be changed, etc.) Anything more finely tuned than that, I don't trust that the sims are smart enough not to make a mess of it.


    @ScarletSimEater sorry but I don't like the idea of glasses/hearing aids being "accessories" since the way it is currently handle for glasses is when your glasses-wearing sims turn into work wear-they suddenly wear contacts? I might see it if they're a spy or a Actor (new career)- but for any other jobs-nope. I also disagree about having mental illness as a trait- it's would take up already limited space we already have.


    Besides nobody chooses to have mental health or any disabilities-it's either happens because we're born with it or we get it later in life or it appears when we're older.

    I would put Physical disability as wheelchairs, vision and hearing-impaired. To answer you're question about stairs-Grant suggest on twitter that stairs would turn into a escalator-ramp. But other stuff you would need is handle bars for near toilets, counters/stove tops which one can wheel under. a Shower/bath that either has a seat in the bath or you can wheel the wheelchair into the bath/shower. Also I don't like the idea of a wheelchair being in a sims' inventory-most users in wheelchairs (I said MOST not all)-use their wheelchair ALL day if they're aren't in bed or on the toilet. So I rather they actual ly animate a working wheelchair then do you simple way which is why people hate the CC wheelchairs already out. My only question is-where the sims be able to wheel themselves in the wheelchair or will they have to be pushed by someone else?

    the Sims team is planing on somehow-we don't know how but I think it was implied they're NOT using traits-including mental illness. Oh and austim isn't a mental illness but a social disability in a sense.


    Lesser disabilities-"temporary" disablties" crutches, and casts.
    6adMCGP.gif
  • puderosasimspuderosasims Posts: 522 Member
    edited October 2018
    I have several mental illnesses and am usually happy when I don't get reminded of them, but would totally support the idea if they get handled like you suggested. :smile: However, there should be an option to turn disabilities off, because it seems like a lot of simmers don't want them in their game.
    Origin ID: puderosasims | Simblr
    English isn't my first language, so please excuse any mistakes.
    tumblr_n8pqhqmpdh1th4xn0o1_400.gif
This discussion has been closed.
Return to top