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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old

Comments

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 27,856 Member
    Sigzy05 wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    The upgrading of Python I think is very telling for the future of this game. There would be no reason to bother with it if it's not going to help with what's there already and especially for additions to this iteration. It makes me wonder if that at least 3 years will or could become quite a few more than that. It tells me that they are wholly invested in this game (which they tell us again and again). That makes me happy.

    Yes - that is extremely telling and something I have never seen happen in all the games I play. I have at most seen a few older games updated and brought back a few times - but never in mid use - completely overhauled with the newest system. That is huge really when you think about it... and definitely says they have big plans in the works to go to that much trouble or what I assume is a lot of trouble otherwise wouldn't all popular games do such a thing? Whether people want to believe it or not - that is dedication to this game on the devs part for sure and on EA for saying yes. They could have said no - keep in mind. So I see plans and a future for sure still growing for Sims 4. You don't make that time and money investment in to an ending game...

    Hopefully the upgraded python version allows for the game to run faster. Hopefully it also makes it so that the devs have an easier time finding bugs when they compile new game files.

    I do believe I have heard things along that line with the newer version of Python. So that sounds promising.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

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    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • TheGoodOldGamerTheGoodOldGamer Posts: 3,559 Member
    Minecraft is the only other game in recent years to have massive upgrades. It started in Java and eventually got switched over to some other system. Generally a company won't do that if they're not interested in keeping it going.
    Live, laugh and love. Life's too short not to.
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 27,856 Member
    edited October 2018
    Minecraft is the only other game in recent years to have massive upgrades. It started in Java and eventually got switched over to some other system. Generally a company won't do that if they're not interested in keeping it going.

    Precisely which suggests to me those numbers Grant gave (3,5,10,15 years) might be the true years being options for this game. Why else would EA invest that kind of time and money - never mind learning curb even for knowledgeable devs - they still need to familiarize themselves with the new Python and this over all system now and into the future.

    I know Andrew Wilson said he decides game years every 3 years for the next three years to come. Three years he added to Sims 4 will either get another three years when that time approaches or go into the end period. But Andrew has also spoke of ennabling longevity on many of their games that are part of the Live service to go even up to 15 years extensions - some of which were previously remade on a yearly basis even so imagine on the right engine and such what they can do longevity wise on engines that do not die with the present game - on engines that can be over hauled in play and has no end time like Sims 1-2- and 3 engines did. Remember Sims 4 engine is not limited, they said this from the beginning) - it is smart technology and can be altered pretty much indefinitely.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 17,074 Member
    edited October 2018
    Minecraft is the only other game in recent years to have massive upgrades. It started in Java and eventually got switched over to some other system. Generally a company won't do that if they're not interested in keeping it going.

    Minecraft was bought by Microsoft. They still use Java, it's considered the main pc version of the game by many but they released the pocket edition now called the bedrock edition which is the same across portable devices and consoles. And yes it has received massive upgrades.
    lajqsb4.png?1
  • MVWdeZTMVWdeZT Posts: 2,822 Member
    I think people tend to forget what the starting base game of a Sims iteration is like. It's easy to say that the Sims 5 will have all the things we expected the base game of 4 to have or even the base game of 3. As platforms become more complex, it also seems to become more difficult to code things. Would TS5 at the beginning have toddlers as charming as the ones we currently have? Would it have an open world as detailed as the one for TS3? I'm skeptical.
    Personally, I think I'll stick with 4 even if they do come up with TS5. I have a long-range story going -- 10 generations on long, and I'm still only on the 1st generation after 4 months real time. I haven't minded this pause in DLC production because I am still enjoying Seasons. I'm curious to see what the effect of an upgrade of Python will lead to.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,264 Member
    edited October 2018
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    ETA: Are we going back to floppy discs? Python is a big hit for games there.

    ETA: Here you go, want to build a game in Python, have at it.


    http://pythonprogramming.net/pygame-python-3-part-1-intro/
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • EA_LannaEA_Lanna Posts: 3,184 EA Community Manager
    Hi folks, Some posts have been removed. As always, we'll have different opinions but that's ok :) The forum rule says it best:
    Be polite and kind. Respect others even if they have a different opinion. If you disagree with someone, you are free to do so politely, but please don't make it personal. Respect also means you never harass, embarrass, or threaten other players.
    • The Help Center is hosted on Answers HQ. Check out EA_Mage's thread on why.
    • Please post all Sims 4 Bug Reports, Technical and Gameplay issues in the AHQ Sims 4 Section.
    • Here is a quick link to The Sims forum rules
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 21,922 Member
    edited October 2018
    I remember very well what a basegame of an AAA game can be like, I played one back in 2009 and fell in love with it. That experience justifies the hope for me the same can happen again in the future. Toddlers are in fact basegame, they were patched in, so there is no reason to assume a Sims 5 basegame won't have fleshed out life stages as long as they don't rush the release. I want them to take all the time they need to make that basegame a strong and enjoyable foundation. And as for open world, I at least hope there will be large and customizable open neighborhoods (1/3 Sims 3 world, with roads), where every sim in your household is controllable in some way. I just don't think that's too much to ask for.
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,096 Member
    edited October 2018
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    Wait, we can't dig or make an Slope? Forgive me I am just confused.
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  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,096 Member
    aricarai wrote: »
    If they ever get around to opening up at least the neighborhoods and adding Create-a-Style, someone send up a flare and I might try the game again. Until then, it's Sims 3 for me. (and a little bit of 2 now and again).

    Not this time around I'm afraid.

    I wouldn't consider this at all "reassuring".

    Just means I will never buy anything beyond what I have, the base game.

    That definitely was like an bucket of cold water thrown on me, All in all Sims 4 is still an gimped game for me regardless of what you have you will still be treated as if you are using an low end system instead of letting the game scale up or down to that system even with the terrain tools and if I am misunderstand even that does not have an whole palette of tools and more than likely lot editoring tools or even neighborhood creation tools will never show. So the thing is to sit out Sims 4 and wait patiently for Sims 5 if it does come. :(
    i7 6700K 16Gb Nvidia RTX Strix 2070 OC 8 GB CM Stryker Full Tower LG 34"UltraWide SB Z
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  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 21,922 Member
    edited October 2018
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    Wait, we can't dig or make an Slope? Forgive me I am just confused.
    I believe that's not definite yet, but it seems so on the pictures.

    ljnrhvu2e23t0jv87537.png

    4610508_orig.jpg


  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,096 Member
    edited October 2018
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    Wait, we can't dig or make an Slope? Forgive me I am just confused.
    I believe that's not definite yet, but it seems so on the pictures.

    ljnrhvu2e23t0jv87537.png

    4610508_orig.jpg


    Guess I will sit and wait and see what happens, however, seeing what SimGuruGrant wrote it not good news for me as far as other features being added and it makes me think as far as features goes for Sims 4 goes it has peaked. Is that second picture from Sims 3? that is a very nice build.
    Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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  • james64468james64468 Posts: 1,208 Member
    They need time to develop the game engine and the artwork. If there was competition maybe then we wouldn't have such lackluster game. Sure the game is better than what it original started. But to be honest the sims has emotion issues. They change emotions very fast. Objects is what changes them. I feel that they forget what makes a sim a sim. As in personalities in Sims 2 you could tell their emotions by watching them. Takes forever for them to eat, shower and etc. I hope if they do a Sims 5 they find a balance and focus on Sims personality. They better do it right. If they don't I am just going to stick to the games I already have.
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,011 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    I use the actual fishing ponds from Debug -- I discovered on a YouTube video that you can size them down or up with the [ ] keys and they still work for fishing. Add some rocks and foliage and they look great. I do also like using the pool tool to make ponds especially with the different pool colors from GT and JA.

    We've only seen them go up so far -- maybe in this week's stream we'll see them drill down? Also I think @SimGuruRomeo said on Twitter that the tools are a work in progress -- we're getting some now, then they'll be fine tuning them and adding more features over time. Another good reason to keep Sims 4 going for a while, to see where they can actually take tools like this. A single step, certainly, but to quote an old Chinese proverb, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,264 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    I use the actual fishing ponds from Debug -- I discovered on a YouTube video that you can size them down or up with the [ ] keys and they still work for fishing. Add some rocks and foliage and they look great. I do also like using the pool tool to make ponds especially with the different pool colors from GT and JA.

    We've only seen them go up so far -- maybe in this week's stream we'll see them drill down? Also I think @SimGuruRomeo said on Twitter that the tools are a work in progress -- we're getting some now, then they'll be fine tuning them and adding more features over time. Another good reason to keep Sims 4 going for a while, to see where they can actually take tools like this. A single step, certainly, but to quote an old Chinese proverb, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    I think it's great they are finally going to add some terrain sculpting, however, does anyone really want to sit here another three years and wait on any feature that might not be in this game's version of tools like sloping (Not sure it's even possible) or digging a pond or lake etc. The thread is about why we have to wait another three years for things the base games of others had, and or was added shortly in some cases like in TS3. But TS1 and TS2 were built with all this in mind from the get go. It's hard for some of us to understand why TS4 wasn't thought out more cleverly and having to add these things later then have to suffer some things wouldn't be up to par compared to the older games.

    Sims in TS4 knock on the doors, right? But it's hard to hear them for some reason, but it's like waiting seven years to get a doorbell we can hear.
    It seems it would be harder to add things like terrain tools four years later after everyone is use to building on flat land, and something of this magnitude seems it would be more trouble than it's worth, and my opinion TS4 is always playing catch up instead of innovative, new, exciting feature, it's always several steps behind what has already come before. I hope the next game, whatever it is, isn't developed in a bubble where they forget why people liked them so much, and why they demand or plead for some things to be there from the get go. It's like sewing on a new piece of cloth to an old worn out outfit, it should have been 'patched' years ago.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,264 Member
    edited October 2018
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    Wait, we can't dig or make an Slope? Forgive me I am just confused.

    I was watching the video, and maybe they show that feature later? But I sort of doubt it, and notice none of the video or screen shots show any land next to the actual buildings meaning there would be a gap and just a tool to raise land. Maybe they have worked all that out, or will, eventually. But not much point if you have to keep hills and mole hills away from walls. Which means no sloping next to a building without a gap. Maybe they surprise me.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 24,011 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    I use the actual fishing ponds from Debug -- I discovered on a YouTube video that you can size them down or up with the [ ] keys and they still work for fishing. Add some rocks and foliage and they look great. I do also like using the pool tool to make ponds especially with the different pool colors from GT and JA.

    We've only seen them go up so far -- maybe in this week's stream we'll see them drill down? Also I think @SimGuruRomeo said on Twitter that the tools are a work in progress -- we're getting some now, then they'll be fine tuning them and adding more features over time. Another good reason to keep Sims 4 going for a while, to see where they can actually take tools like this. A single step, certainly, but to quote an old Chinese proverb, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    I think it's great they are finally going to add some terrain sculpting, however, does anyone really want to sit here another three years and wait on any feature that might not be in this game's version of tools like sloping (Not sure it's even possible) or digging a pond or lake etc. The thread is about why we have to wait another three years for things the base games of others had, and or was added shortly in some cases like in TS3. But TS1 and TS2 were built with all this in mind from the get go. It's hard for some of us to understand why TS4 wasn't thought out more cleverly and having to add these things later then have to suffer some things wouldn't be up to par compared to the older games.

    Sims in TS4 knock on the doors, right? But it's hard to hear them for some reason, but it's like waiting seven years to get a doorbell we can hear.
    It seems it would be harder to add things like terrain tools four years later after everyone is use to building on flat land, and something of this magnitude seems it would be more trouble than it's worth, and my opinion TS4 is always playing catch up instead of innovative, new, exciting feature, it's always several steps behind what has already come before. I hope the next game, whatever it is, isn't developed in a bubble where they forget why people liked them so much, and why they demand or plead for some things to be there from the get go. It's like sewing on a new piece of cloth to an old worn out outfit, it should have been 'patched' years ago.

    It's possible that the programming for the terrain tools (and routing) wasn't possible until the new version of Python was developed -- that could be why we're getting All The Things in November (terrain tools, sketch pad, maybe a new pack?). Adding these tools plus transitioning to a new Python version (which is reportedly both more stable and can alert programmers to coding conflicts which contribute to bugs) indicates to me at least that Sims 4 isn't going anywhere soon, and could possibly lead to further improvements in the game.

    Not to speak ill of the departed, but Sims 4 seemed to get a different focus with the change in management (Rachel Franklin leaving and replaced by longtime Sims veteran Lyndsay Pearson). We got the best toddlers in the Sims series, and a lot more family play. Even Seasons is a lot more family based with home-based holidays replacing the community festivals. And I personally don't give a plum about snow depth. As for digging down rather than going up, I'm waiting for Thursday's stream to see what's possible -- and I believe @SimGuruRomeo has said that the tools are a work in progress so if we can't go down now that doesn't mean we won't get that functionality somewhere down the road.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
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  • simgirl1010simgirl1010 Posts: 12,475 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    According to the latest TIOBE Programming Community Index, Python is one of the top 10 popular programming languages of 2017. Python is a general purpose and high level programming language.You can use Python for developing desktop GUI applications, websites and web applications. Also, Python, as a high level programming language, allows you to focus on core functionality of the application by taking care of common programming tasks. The simple syntax rules of the programming language further makes it easier for you to keep the code base readable and application maintainable. There are also a number of reasons why you should prefer Python to other programming languages.

    https://medium.com/@mindfiresolutions.usa/python-7-important-reasons-why-you-should-use-python-5801a98a0d0b

    Seems to me they're aiming for stability and longevity.

    Then again, you can search the web and find any number of articles to support your viewpoint.
  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,096 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    I use the actual fishing ponds from Debug -- I discovered on a YouTube video that you can size them down or up with the [ ] keys and they still work for fishing. Add some rocks and foliage and they look great. I do also like using the pool tool to make ponds especially with the different pool colors from GT and JA.

    We've only seen them go up so far -- maybe in this week's stream we'll see them drill down? Also I think @SimGuruRomeo said on Twitter that the tools are a work in progress -- we're getting some now, then they'll be fine tuning them and adding more features over time. Another good reason to keep Sims 4 going for a while, to see where they can actually take tools like this. A single step, certainly, but to quote an old Chinese proverb, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    I think it's great they are finally going to add some terrain sculpting, however, does anyone really want to sit here another three years and wait on any feature that might not be in this game's version of tools like sloping (Not sure it's even possible) or digging a pond or lake etc. The thread is about why we have to wait another three years for things the base games of others had, and or was added shortly in some cases like in TS3. But TS1 and TS2 were built with all this in mind from the get go. It's hard for some of us to understand why TS4 wasn't thought out more cleverly and having to add these things later then have to suffer some things wouldn't be up to par compared to the older games.

    Sims in TS4 knock on the doors, right? But it's hard to hear them for some reason, but it's like waiting seven years to get a doorbell we can hear.
    It seems it would be harder to add things like terrain tools four years later after everyone is use to building on flat land, and something of this magnitude seems it would be more trouble than it's worth, and my opinion TS4 is always playing catch up instead of innovative, new, exciting feature, it's always several steps behind what has already come before. I hope the next game, whatever it is, isn't developed in a bubble where they forget why people liked them so much, and why they demand or plead for some things to be there from the get go. It's like sewing on a new piece of cloth to an old worn out outfit, it should have been 'patched' years ago.

    It's possible that the programming for the terrain tools (and routing) wasn't possible until the new version of Python was developed -- that could be why we're getting All The Things in November (terrain tools, sketch pad, maybe a new pack?). Adding these tools plus transitioning to a new Python version (which is reportedly both more stable and can alert programmers to coding conflicts which contribute to bugs) indicates to me at least that Sims 4 isn't going anywhere soon, and could possibly lead to further improvements in the game.

    Not to speak ill of the departed, but Sims 4 seemed to get a different focus with the change in management (Rachel Franklin leaving and replaced by longtime Sims veteran Lyndsay Pearson). We got the best toddlers in the Sims series, and a lot more family play. Even Seasons is a lot more family based with home-based holidays replacing the community festivals. And I personally don't give a plum about snow depth. As for digging down rather than going up, I'm waiting for Thursday's stream to see what's possible -- and I believe @SimGuruRomeo has said that the tools are a work in progress so if we can't go down now that doesn't mean we won't get that functionality somewhere down the road.

    The way I see it why put out such an tool before it is totally finished, For me I could understand the wait if they are going to put out the whole tool and not half for if there is no way to reverse your work and you must now wait for them to make an tool to reverse it that to me is senseless. I care alot about what is put into an game if it adds depth and immersion to the game. I rather not have features that are relegated to tablets and a whole palette of tools at my disposal. I also do not like to be spoon fed to keep one tied to the program and in the end what one thought was going to be given never will be. All said this my opinion and I hope EA/Maxis do give us an good terrain tool and not an gimped one.
    i7 6700K 16Gb Nvidia RTX Strix 2070 OC 8 GB CM Stryker Full Tower LG 34"UltraWide SB Z
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  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 27,856 Member
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I will say building in TS4 is not easier. Because it's not. Anyone who builds in these games know how aggravating it is to have to use a porch tool on the roof so you can extend the roof overhead like an awning etc. Time consuming and annoying. Anyone who builds in these games know how the inability to remove one or two tiles removes the entire floor etc. is annoying and the work arounds are time consuming. Anyone who builds in these games know this game doesn't recognize rooms, and I suspect double walls though it looks like it is one wall when it isn't may be related to some lag in certain lots. But I don't know anything, right? :D And because people aren't paying attention to double walls it is more annoying than ever to remove them when you want to remodel and possibly leaves holes in a building until you do a workaround.

    Don't even get me started after four years that people are still having to use the pool tool or fountain and place so called rocks around it to make it look like a pond. Terrain tools are great, however, if we can't dig down or slope terrain and other things, then what is the point exactly? One way and it's up doesn't rate to be called 'terrain tools'.

    I won't mention the bad design of the roof decorations that sometimes cause wide gaps in floor tile or clip/bleed into the room below inside the walls. And the limitation of only one kind per wall height. (Cornice, I know this is not what it is called in these games but that is what is said around here.)

    I use the actual fishing ponds from Debug -- I discovered on a YouTube video that you can size them down or up with the [ ] keys and they still work for fishing. Add some rocks and foliage and they look great. I do also like using the pool tool to make ponds especially with the different pool colors from GT and JA.

    We've only seen them go up so far -- maybe in this week's stream we'll see them drill down? Also I think @SimGuruRomeo said on Twitter that the tools are a work in progress -- we're getting some now, then they'll be fine tuning them and adding more features over time. Another good reason to keep Sims 4 going for a while, to see where they can actually take tools like this. A single step, certainly, but to quote an old Chinese proverb, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    I think it's great they are finally going to add some terrain sculpting, however, does anyone really want to sit here another three years and wait on any feature that might not be in this game's version of tools like sloping (Not sure it's even possible) or digging a pond or lake etc. The thread is about why we have to wait another three years for things the base games of others had, and or was added shortly in some cases like in TS3. But TS1 and TS2 were built with all this in mind from the get go. It's hard for some of us to understand why TS4 wasn't thought out more cleverly and having to add these things later then have to suffer some things wouldn't be up to par compared to the older games.

    Sims in TS4 knock on the doors, right? But it's hard to hear them for some reason, but it's like waiting seven years to get a doorbell we can hear.
    It seems it would be harder to add things like terrain tools four years later after everyone is use to building on flat land, and something of this magnitude seems it would be more trouble than it's worth, and my opinion TS4 is always playing catch up instead of innovative, new, exciting feature, it's always several steps behind what has already come before. I hope the next game, whatever it is, isn't developed in a bubble where they forget why people liked them so much, and why they demand or plead for some things to be there from the get go. It's like sewing on a new piece of cloth to an old worn out outfit, it should have been 'patched' years ago.

    It's possible that the programming for the terrain tools (and routing) wasn't possible until the new version of Python was developed -- that could be why we're getting All The Things in November (terrain tools, sketch pad, maybe a new pack?). Adding these tools plus transitioning to a new Python version (which is reportedly both more stable and can alert programmers to coding conflicts which contribute to bugs) indicates to me at least that Sims 4 isn't going anywhere soon, and could possibly lead to further improvements in the game.

    Not to speak ill of the departed, but Sims 4 seemed to get a different focus with the change in management (Rachel Franklin leaving and replaced by longtime Sims veteran Lyndsay Pearson). We got the best toddlers in the Sims series, and a lot more family play. Even Seasons is a lot more family based with home-based holidays replacing the community festivals. And I personally don't give a plum about snow depth. As for digging down rather than going up, I'm waiting for Thursday's stream to see what's possible -- and I believe @SimGuruRomeo has said that the tools are a work in progress so if we can't go down now that doesn't mean we won't get that functionality somewhere down the road.

    The way I see it why put out such an tool before it is totally finished, For me I could understand the wait if they are going to put out the whole tool and not half for if there is no way to reverse your work and you must now wait for them to make an tool to reverse it that to me is senseless. I care alot about what is put into an game if it adds depth and immersion to the game. I rather not have features that are relegated to tablets and a whole palette of tools at my disposal. I also do not like to be spoon fed to keep one tied to the program and in the end what one thought was going to be given never will be. All said this my opinion and I hope EA/Maxis do give us an good terrain tool and not an gimped one.

    I do not believe it was the change in Python that made the tool possible but the fact Grant mentioned they did some major overhauling of trhe game engine twice now - recently and why they also needed to upgrade Python to the newest version. The tool was added after the second engine overhaul from the sounds of it - and Python upgrade will not even be done until November.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,264 Member
    edited October 2018
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    According to the latest TIOBE Programming Community Index, Python is one of the top 10 popular programming languages of 2017. Python is a general purpose and high level programming language.You can use Python for developing desktop GUI applications, websites and web applications. Also, Python, as a high level programming language, allows you to focus on core functionality of the application by taking care of common programming tasks. The simple syntax rules of the programming language further makes it easier for you to keep the code base readable and application maintainable. There are also a number of reasons why you should prefer Python to other programming languages.

    https://medium.com/@mindfiresolutions.usa/python-7-important-reasons-why-you-should-use-python-5801a98a0d0b

    Seems to me they're aiming for stability and longevity.

    Then again, you can search the web and find any number of articles to support your viewpoint.

    No matter how popular Python is today, it doesn't dismiss the fact we were learning Python back in 1990. It's main use is for data analytics. And as I pointed out, yes, back in the day, like a hundred years ago, you could build a simple game much easier with Python since it doesn't use coding like other software language, such as semicolons, commas etc. but more (in my mind) like shorthand. One word becomes a phrase etc. but as I said it's been years, and it has been around for thirty years. It was installed in my old Windows 98 pc long after using 3.1 or 3.5 Windows and yeah, I messed around with it, some. ETA: It doesn't matter in this thread whether they use Python or something else, some games use Java, what matters is how many years are we all willing to wait and wring hands for things that may never happen. Unless they intend to up the number of EPs, free patches, and GPs in the next three years, one a year or maybe two packs a year isn't going to bring a full game and the depth they were back in 2004. There would have to be some major production increases in content and code.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,532 Member


    I am not a mean person, and I do not hate EA/Maxis, Just I am not good at being the (Stepford Wives)

    Shouts, the forbidden words at EA/Maxis. :o They have no right to force feed us whatever for the next 3 years, and maybe forever. no one said it had an end. Think about what's going on. we sit tapping our fingers on the table in the dark. Yes, they are the ones that shut off the lights.
    So we sit there tapping our fingers, pacing back and forth, Knowing nothing but what little we can get from google lol. Google does not know what EA/Maxis plans are for the next 3 years to eternity.?

    So they want to keep us entertained. Well, we got news for you EA/Maxis we are not entertained.
    So we start bickering with each other talking nonsense, like our toddlers.

    Do you ever fell like a child begging for a new toy? Ok Daddy EA, gave us a terrain tool toy, knowing full well we would want to add ponds. (I do not want to say this but, no you do not have to dig to add a pond.. the King could just give us a raise land tool, oops that's just too easy. then place a pond river whatever, a water tool.

    OMG, they will not even let you know if you will even have things they already said we would have like cars. University, Fantasy people with special powers. You know all cartoons have them. Will we ever swim? in our pretend oceans,

    for anyone that's old enough to be in a relationship, and you have had enough and your on the verge of breaking up because you feel that you're going in circles and not getting anyplace. You long stop buying packs. I mean you long stop trying, and they do not know you do not even care anymore.
    You may ask why am I upset.? Let me ask you why aren't you upset.?

    Ok, They gave us pools, no pool toys ever! No details ever.
    They gave us Toddlers, then they gave us the Highchair >:) , then added patches to make our toddlers next to impossible to enjoy.
    They took 4 years to give us swings. and yes they could have added a porch swing. but we could never get one unless we beg another 4 years.
    They gave us beautiful pets, They saw that we were enjoying our pets so they had to patch in, when we return home from say work, our pets are dirty and ill every time, and a pop up to let you know your pet is starving, It does not matter that he has 3 auto feeders full of food. they also added the pets follow us around crying never happy never just being a pet anymore.
    Nope EA/Maxis do not allow joy in the Sims 4. they showed us strays that we could adopt on the trailer, they were cute, but in our game, they glow with illness. Pet hospitals are full of pet vomit and strays. Why?
    They gave us cute business, then gave us employees that will not work.
    Now Nannies do not return. they did all this to make us hate the game,? ok why take out so much time to make us not enjoy our game. Stop patching our game making it trash. each patch takes away any joy

    They give us this forum so we can come here and fight among ourselves to take out our frustrations out on? other simmers is not the blame or the problem.

    All I can say is that my game does work, with no lag, but I also know why? I feel sorry for the simmers that have many bugs, because I do not believe anyone cares. I feel we are in a sad state of affairs.,

    EA/Maxis This Darkness, this patching and making our game unenjoyable is a (Game Changer,) look that up all you that lovers google. Now show me the Door.

    If the games were fun, we would not be here so much, being upset about this and that.
    Then what? they shut off the lights, shut us down, They will tell us what they want when they want.
    And worst we have to dumb down like we do not know they were all and I do mean all play acting.
    Ok so I did not mind the play-acting, but do not expect adults not to know it we are not all 13.



    Maybe its not always about trying to fix something broken.
    Sometimes its about starting over and creating something better.
    WGYfB8n.png
    But whatever happens Don't panic
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 27,856 Member
    edited October 2018
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    ETA: Are we going back to floppy discs? Python is a big hit for games there.

    ETA: Here you go, want to build a game in Python, have at it.


    http://pythonprogramming.net/pygame-python-3-part-1-intro/

    Well the creator of Python just won the Noble prize for it for advancement in mathematics, science - you name it - seems perhaps it's better than you think - sort of indicates top dog wouldn't you say. Especially seeing this is at least the third time Python has won the Noble prize that I recall - maybe even more than that.


    https://qz.com/1417145/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert/

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,264 Member
    edited October 2018
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Python? You know we were using Python back in Windows 3.5. maybe back in 3.1, it's been years so it's hard to remember. I think there was a newer version around the time we got Windows98 to use with it. And isn't it one of the reasons or is there another reason TS4 can't utilize DirectX11 but still using DirectX9? Wow, we can go back to DirectX6? Reckon we can code the game mods in DOS?

    ETA: Are we going back to floppy discs? Python is a big hit for games there.

    ETA: Here you go, want to build a game in Python, have at it.


    http://pythonprogramming.net/pygame-python-3-part-1-intro/

    Well the creator of Python just won the Noble prize for it for advancement in mathematics, science - you name it - seems perhaps it's better than you think - sort of indicates top dog wouldn't you say. Especially seeing this is at least the third time Python has won the Noble prize that I recall - maybe even more than that.


    https://qz.com/1417145/economics-nobel-laureate-paul-romer-is-a-python-programming-convert/

    How many games use Python is the question when it's used for data analysis. That is the question. Python was used for simple games years ago, maybe they use it for all those pop up messages you get in TS4. As I said no one is knocking Python as a computer language program/software/ concept but how many modern games use Python? We are talking about games, not how well this can gather data or write apps.

    ETA: What most people don't know is Python was free. I'm not sure a newer version will be free for Windows 10. And if you want to undestand how Python is used you can learn Python in seven days. This is the last time I hope I have to speak about Python.

    http://www.kaggle.com/page/python-course-ads?utm_medium=paid&utm_source=google.com+search&utm_campaign=us+learn+python+7day+challenge&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIksuM2qv-3QIVDb7ACh3sbAu0EAAYAiAAEgLM1vD_BwE
    Post edited by Cinebar on
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • candy8candy8 Posts: 3,679 Member
    Catitude5 you be thinking the way I do, they do have Life but it isn't the same I do wish another company should come out and give EA some competention maybe that is what they need.
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