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Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old

Comments

  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,565 Member

    One complaint I do not have is building in sims 4, Sims 4 building is easy, we can build anything, We do need some features but even pre-teens can build on the sims 4. So I think they made it easier but they just did not add all the features, we still get by just takes a bit of creativity.

    Maybe its not always about trying to fix something broken.
    Sometimes its about starting over and creating something better.
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    But whatever happens Don't panic
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,055 Member
    edited October 2018
    Cinebar wrote: »
    I think as long as some of the features are limited (like not being able to have a home business or being able to cook at your own restaurants, etc), and the Sims AI is lackluster (reactions, inconsistent traits, etc), then for me Sims 4 will always be a limited Sims game.

    I still love playing it, but that doesn’t make me blind to the lack of content and certain features.

    However, I still want Sims 4 to get some more content before we move on. Hopefully in that time, Sims 5 will have taken feedback and make improvements.

    But I am still enjoying the game regardless (none of the Sims games are perfect), and I still want some more content. I want the Company to at least make up for their mistakes and keep supporting us who have invested in this iteration, just for a little bit while we wait for the next one.

    (And yes, I will keep buying Sims 4 content, if I like it. Don’t bother shaming me for that. It’s a free country.)

    There was no need for your last comment.

    For me, personally, I do feel I need to add that disclaimer, because I sometimes get the vibe or feeling that I (and other Sims 4 lovers) should be ashamed to be fans of such a lackluster iteration in some parts of this large forum.

    And, yes, I will still want Sims 4 to add some more content for the next few years, because I know that support and new content would stop for Sims 4 quickly once the new iteration settles in. I want some new content to play with and maybe even some bug fixes before they kill off the support and stop making the new content for this game.

    Edited to add: I’m interested in a Sims 5, but I’m still in Sims 4, and I just want a little more content and bug fixes/support before the company starts pulling the plug on it before the flashy new one starts getting the full attention.

    If Sims 4 didn’t sell and causes the company to move on due to that practical reason, then I’m fine with that. However, it sounds like Sims 4 is selling good enough for the company wanting to add a little bit more content and fixes for it. (I think?) If it’s selling, then I am having hope for more content, especially a few content bits I’m still waiting for (beach/island, mermaids, maybe oceans, and sports/hobbies).

    Actually the Sims 4 according to the last Conference call is consistantly their second best selling game steadily this year - here's and excert from the Q & A area of the Conference Call From May:
    Electronic Arts Inc. (NASDAQ:EA)
    Q4 2018 Earnings Conference Call
    May 8, 2018, 5:00 p.m. ET

    Questions and Answers:

    And your next question comes from Chris Merwin with Goldman Sachs.

    Christopher Merwin -- Goldman Sachs -- Analyst

    Okay, great. Thank you. I just have a couple. First for Blake, even with the backdrop of Fortnite, you had another very strong quarter on live service, up about 30% year-on-year. Was it FIFA Ultimate Team and competitive gaming that were the main driving force behind that, or was there anything else that you would call out, like Star Wars and MTX, which I think you brought back late in the quarter?

    Blake Jorgensen -- Chief Financial Officer and Chief Executive Officer

    So, on the live service piece, it was Ultimate Team across FIFA, Madden, and Hockey, and to a smaller extent, NBA, but really, Ultimate Team, number one driver. Sims 4, number two driver, and that's been consistent through the year. It's been extremely strong as we continue to add extra content to that game. And Battlefield 1, we're at the tail end of extra content along Battlefield 1. Battlefront was not a major addition since, as you mentioned, the MTX came in very late in the quarter.

    But the other thing to remember is the breadth of our extra content subscription, advertising, all the other components continue to add up and help us build that base that we've been able to build, now over $2.2 billion, is what's so great about that live service business, because it continues to maintain a fairly large consistency year-over-year.
    So in spite of some people on this forum thinking it's a bad game - apparently Sims 4 steadily out performs and sells. I have been following the Conference calls since 2006 and not even Sims 2 constantly sold this well never mind come in second place every quarter consistently.

    {EA_Lanna: Added a spoiler tag. Please select the spoiler tag to read the Q&A's from the conference call.}
    Post edited by EA_Lanna on

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • CK213CK213 Posts: 17,959 Member
    edited September 2018
    -University
    -Tropical Island Getaway
    -Witches
    -Farming
    -Future Technology (+Servos/Simbots/Plumbots).
    -Something else completely new to The Sims
    -Missing NPCs
    -Whims and trait tweeks
    -Fear emotion

    My game is incomplete and pretty much a waste of my time and money if I don't get these.
    A few more years should do it.
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  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,055 Member
    CK213 wrote: »
    -University
    -Island Getaway
    -Witches
    -Farming
    -Future Technology (+Servos/Simbots/Plumbots).
    -Something else completely new to The Sims
    -Missing NPCs
    -Whims and trait tweeks

    My game is incomplete and pretty much a waste of my time and money if I don't get these.
    A few more years should do it.

    I like your list. I could second that list.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,275 Member
    edited September 2018
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    I watched one of the videos. The last link can't be found and no longer exists. I'm confused by this. Agents in games normally mean to me these would be characters in a game the player has no control over. For an MMORPG, I think this would mean (what do I know?nothing) these would work like team mates instead of actual humans as team mates in multiplayer games. They seem to say in this video they would learn, adapt and overcome basically. O.K., though it's more advanced than anything AI has been able to do before, I have to wonder how much of this would work in a game like The Sims series? where we already complain we just sit back and watch TS4 Sims like watching a TV show, where they do whatever they want to do and in TS4 we usually don't have as much control over that as we have had in the past. I wonder how this would help Sims be more human- like in a newer game, or if it would be more annoying. Because in TS4 (though I'm speaking in very simple, uneducated terms about this stuff) we already see cancel doesn't mean stop and freewill off doesn't mean freewill is completely off and in most cases they carry on with whereever they were going for whatever reason unknown to the player.

    The last link can be found but the forum keeps changing the last two words of the link to plum.plum. Go to game industry site and search for EA'plum.E.E.D program.

    You might want to message @Cinebar the link @Writin_Reg your post got edited out again. I think it's mistaking EA's (S.E.E.D program) as a bad word when you put it together.

    I wanted to also add after glancing through some of the links that I'm a bit skeptical about introducing the sims under the S.E.E.D concept. How much in control of our games will we truly be starting this point. Where will the line be drawn between playing the sims and living in the real world. I don't know if anyone has seen the movie Upgrade. But for some reason a particular scene comes to mind. I an about to give out a spoiler. So you have been warned
    Basically there is one scene where he comes across a hacker to reset the technology that is inside of him because the creator wants to shut it down. While at the hackers he notices people there with virtual glasses on and starts asking about them. The hacker explains that the virtual world is more appealing to them than reality so they decided to stay in said virtual world.
    My point is there are simmers who already feel like this is an escape from reality, but how deep is EA they willing to take it? That's the scary part... But on a not so creepy point lol I like having my game my way and I feel like this program might take that away from me if incorporated in future sims game. If the sims 5 were to be in that direction this will be my last sims game. I do like smarter AI, however, to the point of disobeying and doing what they want and not what I click them to do? Yeah I'm good off of that lol
    Post edited by Noree_Doree on
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  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,055 Member
    edited September 2018
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    I watched one of the videos. The last link can't be found and no longer exists. I'm confused by this. Agents in games normally mean to me these would be characters in a game the player has no control over. For an MMORPG, I think this would mean (what do I know?nothing) these would work like team mates instead of actual humans as team mates in multiplayer games. They seem to say in this video they would learn, adapt and overcome basically. O.K., though it's more advanced than anything AI has been able to do before, I have to wonder how much of this would work in a game like The Sims series? where we already complain we just sit back and watch TS4 Sims like watching a TV show, where they do whatever they want to do and in TS4 we usually don't have as much control over that as we have had in the past. I wonder how this would help Sims be more human- like in a newer game, or if it would be more annoying. Because in TS4 (though I'm speaking in very simple, uneducated terms about this stuff) we already see cancel doesn't mean stop and freewill off doesn't mean freewill is completely off and in most cases they carry on with whereever they were going for whatever reason unknown to the player.

    The last link can be found but the forum keeps changing the last two words of the link to plum.plum. Go to game industry site and search for EA'plum.E.E.D program.

    You might want to message @Cinebar the link @Writin_Reg your post got edited out again. I think it's mistaking EA's (S.E.E.D program) as a bad word when you put it together.

    Thanks.

    Try this - it's the you tube Video showing somewhat how this program works -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=15&v=LXo0WdlELJk

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,055 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    I watched one of the videos. The last link can't be found and no longer exists. I'm confused by this. Agents in games normally mean to me these would be characters in a game the player has no control over. For an MMORPG, I think this would mean (what do I know?nothing) these would work like team mates instead of actual humans as team mates in multiplayer games. They seem to say in this video they would learn, adapt and overcome basically. O.K., though it's more advanced than anything AI has been able to do before, I have to wonder how much of this would work in a game like The Sims series? where we already complain we just sit back and watch TS4 Sims like watching a TV show, where they do whatever they want to do and in TS4 we usually don't have as much control over that as we have had in the past. I wonder how this would help Sims be more human- like in a newer game, or if it would be more annoying. Because in TS4 (though I'm speaking in very simple, uneducated terms about this stuff) we already see cancel doesn't mean stop and freewill off doesn't mean freewill is completely off and in most cases they carry on with whereever they were going for whatever reason unknown to the player.

    The last link can be found but the forum keeps changing the last two words of the link to plum.plum. Go to game industry site and search for EA'plum.E.E.D program.

    You might want to message @Cinebar the link @Writin_Reg your post got edited out again. I think it's mistaking EA's (S.E.E.D program) as a bad word when you put it together.

    I wanted to also add after glancing through some of the links that I'm a bit skeptical about introducing the sims under the S.E.E.D concept. How much in control of our games will we truly be starting this point. Where will the line be drawn between playing the sims and living in the real world. I don't know if anyone has seen the movie Upgrade. But for some reason a particular scene comes to mind. I an about to give out a spoiler. So you have been warned
    Basically there is one scene where he comes across a hacker to reset the technology that is inside of him because the creator wants to shut it down. While at the hackers he notices people there with virtual glasses on and starts asking about them. The hacker explains that the virtual world is more appealing to them than reality so they decided to stay in said virtual world.
    My point is there are simmers who already feel like this is an escape from reality, but how deep is EA they willing to take it? That's the scary part... But on a not so creepy point lol I like having my game my way and I feel like this program might take that away from me if incorporated in future sims game. If the sims 5 were to be in that direction this will be my last sims game. I do like smarter AI, however, to the point of disobeying and doing what they want and not what I click them to do? Yeah I'm good off of that lol

    Well I suppose it has to do with how much control they take away from us (this thought worries me) by storing most stuff to do with the game on the cloud so people can use the game on any device - is that going to take away most of our creativity, user made mods and CC some simmers love, and things like us simply redoing what they added in the game. That is my big worry - as they might limit everything to building with just premade rooms, pull and push, but not rework from scratch in order to limit our excess to the code etc. If they put the game with in certain perimeters to protect potential issues like that - I am fairly certain it Is going to be a bunch of upset people on some level or the other. But honestly until they reveal more - we can only guess and cause ourselves hopefully unneeded angst about it.

    I just have no doubt they are going to move forward toward this goal and this program. They have billions invested and years already in place.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Noree_DoreeNoree_Doree Posts: 1,275 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »

    I watched one of the videos. The last link can't be found and no longer exists. I'm confused by this. Agents in games normally mean to me these would be characters in a game the player has no control over. For an MMORPG, I think this would mean (what do I know?nothing) these would work like team mates instead of actual humans as team mates in multiplayer games. They seem to say in this video they would learn, adapt and overcome basically. O.K., though it's more advanced than anything AI has been able to do before, I have to wonder how much of this would work in a game like The Sims series? where we already complain we just sit back and watch TS4 Sims like watching a TV show, where they do whatever they want to do and in TS4 we usually don't have as much control over that as we have had in the past. I wonder how this would help Sims be more human- like in a newer game, or if it would be more annoying. Because in TS4 (though I'm speaking in very simple, uneducated terms about this stuff) we already see cancel doesn't mean stop and freewill off doesn't mean freewill is completely off and in most cases they carry on with whereever they were going for whatever reason unknown to the player.

    The last link can be found but the forum keeps changing the last two words of the link to plum.plum. Go to game industry site and search for EA'plum.E.E.D program.

    You might want to message @Cinebar the link @Writin_Reg your post got edited out again. I think it's mistaking EA's (S.E.E.D program) as a bad word when you put it together.

    I wanted to also add after glancing through some of the links that I'm a bit skeptical about introducing the sims under the S.E.E.D concept. How much in control of our games will we truly be starting this point. Where will the line be drawn between playing the sims and living in the real world. I don't know if anyone has seen the movie Upgrade. But for some reason a particular scene comes to mind. I an about to give out a spoiler. So you have been warned
    Basically there is one scene where he comes across a hacker to reset the technology that is inside of him because the creator wants to shut it down. While at the hackers he notices people there with virtual glasses on and starts asking about them. The hacker explains that the virtual world is more appealing to them than reality so they decided to stay in said virtual world.
    My point is there are simmers who already feel like this is an escape from reality, but how deep is EA they willing to take it? That's the scary part... But on a not so creepy point lol I like having my game my way and I feel like this program might take that away from me if incorporated in future sims game. If the sims 5 were to be in that direction this will be my last sims game. I do like smarter AI, however, to the point of disobeying and doing what they want and not what I click them to do? Yeah I'm good off of that lol

    Well I suppose it has to do with how much control they take away from us (this thought worries me) by storing most stuff to do with the game on the cloud so people can use the game on any device - is that going to take away most of our creativity, user made mods and CC some simmers love, and things like us simply redoing what they added in the game. That is my big worry - as they might limit everything to building with just premade rooms, pull and push, but not rework from scratch in order to limit our excess to the code etc. If they put the game with in certain perimeters to protect potential issues like that - I am fairly certain it Is going to be a bunch of upset people on some level or the other. But honestly until they reveal more - we can only guess and cause ourselves hopefully unneeded angst about it.

    I just have no doubt they are going to move forward toward this goal and this program. They have billions invested and years already in place.

    Great points! I agree. It's best to wait and see what's being offered first. I really hope they take in consideration what people actually want to do. Especially the builders. I know this iteration has already upset quite a bit of builders. And thaybshouod be taken into consideration. I may not be a builder but the idea of push and pull puts a bad taste in my mouth. But again you're right. I can't lie though, It is nice to know how far technology is going lol
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  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,565 Member

    What is S.E.E.D? No, I am not asking. (Why, because Simmers would be more ready to correct my wrong than to answer my question) I would like to say what I am thinking. (I could be right or wrong in this, I have not studied this) Ok to me it is about gaming, But it's not just EA trying this sure its others and has been for years.

    Now to me, they want to replicate a human brain while playing a game. let's say a fighting game. Now of course, as far as I know, they have always had games that have been learning from the human player to learn how to make the human lose the game and the computer win. So they learn from the human while they are playing the game.
    Now to me what they are trying to do now is make a game-bot that has a human intelligent's play on their own as a human. even testing it to see if, in different settings and levels will it (think) like a human.
    This reminds me of a war strategy. how far will the bot go, how close can it get to human behaver? like a human in war will first try to win for their side, but when hurt, will change strategy and only try to save self. or even a friend or child. Just how close can they make this bot behave as a human.

    Now let us talk about our Computers, we all have one. Have you notice how they want to learn you, they even ask our permission. :), Oh yea they are in on this as well. learning humans. Even Google wants to learn us and even ask our permission. Sure we can turn this off if we wanted to. (they say its to help them help us. I think they will do it anyway, but it just will not be personalized to you.)

    I always wondered just how far will they go with this personal information on what they feel they know about us.
    I do feel that in the future they may even start using what they know about human behaver, in this case, you.

    Do I think game bots will ever be as smart as humans? No humans are so much more complicated then a bot could ever be.

    But it would be fun to play with a bot that is human-like in its thinking.

    Think of the possibilities in a Sims game. Maybe we will let go of Sims non-real language and maybe we could type to them and they respond as a human or more human-like.

    Then we would have even less control?. Would that scare you or would you enjoy the game more?
    Have you ever played with a computer, on its level? I mean a game of intelligence. One day maybe you will. When you let go and allow your brain to beat the computer. But please do not go and hurt your brains lol.

    Let's take our forum, yes our forum helps EA learn us. and the best way to market something is to learn the people you sell to. I have done this, not in a forum, but I have studied people that I wished to sell my products to, and knowing them did make me a success.

    Now one more comment, push and pull building is easier, and have been around many years.
    I do not see that in any way blocking CC or Mods, that would be up to EA to allow or not allow, as it is now.

    So I can understand them needing more time, no not to find new EP to give us, they already know what their plans for Sims 4 are and they will stick to their plans I think, but if they are working on something and need the time to finish up and keep our interest in the game, Sure why not take a few more years, I mean they are watching us, learning us, they know when we are in need of attention, lol, and if we need attention they will give it to us, perhaps in a sprinkle of content or a future pack down the road. No, they will never ignore us, they know we cannot handle not getting answers. After all, they made the Sims and we are kind of like their Sims.

    Maybe its not always about trying to fix something broken.
    Sometimes its about starting over and creating something better.
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    But whatever happens Don't panic
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,463 Member
    I'm sort of surprised, but not really, about TS4 being EA's second most profitable game in live service. But honestly how many other live service games does EA have other than their sports games? Anyone? There's EA Sports then there is Maxis using a live service business model. So, yes, wouldn't TS4 be the second one making a profit? Stand to reason. What might be more impressive to me would be if TS4 passed up EA Sports like The Sims did. That would be remarkable in this day in age.

    But is it any wonder? TS4 lacks content four years later, so of course most who like it are going to buy more. Anything, any little pack, any big pack and I would bet if there was a patch of DLC they wanted to charge for others would go ahead and pay for it even if they fussed about it. Because TS4 needs more content because it is what everyone says. It's not just me saying it. Not just those of us who look at it from a different point of view (it's had plenty of time) but those who adore it complain, beg, plead, wish, dream, it would deliver the content that they feel is missing. But it never does. So, they keep on buying, and share holders keep on believing this must be the best game ever, financially. They really don't buy out of choice but need, for a lack of gameplay and content. That's why live service is so successful, the purchase is made by a need for the product and not because you want it. But because you game needs it, since it's either something you need to win a level, or something to make you feel TS4 is fuller and not so empty. Where as in the past people chose to bypass or skip different packs out of choice and lack of interest in the theme or just didn't want something in their games. However, with live service, people are desperate for more content so they buy a pack though they don't want the theme in their game, because they want and need the other stuff since the content arrives in dribs and drabs and few choices.

    Is it really any wonder TS4 would do well with a business model like that. And forced patches adds to the icing.





    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 31,354 Member
    What if the only reason Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3 ended when they did was because they couldn't handle more content? What if acres of ideas were left out because they just couldn't fit more in?

    Right from the start it was evident with the design and structure of Sims 4 that longevity of the game had been considered and planned for. We don't "need" any Sims at all. But I'm excited to find out what's possible when a Sims game doesn't get stopped early.
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,463 Member
    What if the only reason Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3 ended when they did was because they couldn't handle more content? What if acres of ideas were left out because they just couldn't fit more in?

    Right from the start it was evident with the design and structure of Sims 4 that longevity of the game had been considered and planned for. We don't "need" any Sims at all. But I'm excited to find out what's possible when a Sims game doesn't get stopped early.

    About the time TS4 was in development (the original project) EA had a business model that all games must be tied into the internet. Then when one CEO left during TS3's end, EA changed course to become a live service company, so TS4 again had to change it's direction from a possible MMO or something, to a single player game..but EA was saying their games would become a live service and no longer just games people play then put away and six months later play again. Live service is of course the reason TS4 lacks content as much as the others, because they are required to drop someting on the public ever so often to meet their requirements of being a live service game. Maybe or maybe not that may be one reason things players think belonged in a pack are later split up to be in a different pack, or in free content or whatever, because requirements have to be met for live service.

    But let's think about it, live service is supposedly a service that listens to feedback, and then creates the content a player would like to see. Other than pools and toddlers which both took many months or three years, what content that players have requested (other than the old stand by EP themes) has been met? Nanny and Butler, yes, but other than a few requests being met, in four long years not much has been implemented if it's based/built on player feedback. Of course, a game's player base wants some of the stuff they saw in previous games, like the past EPs, but as far as the demands players of what they wanted to return (besides the EPs) not much has been added other than a handful of content that was requested and can be counted on one hand or maybe two, four long years. The dribs and drabs prove players get a new pack then say they are bored, and need something else to fill up their games, where in past games I don't recall but one or two people ever saying they were bored or needed to know what was the future releases because their games were empty.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,187 Member
    By dangling an carrot some will continue to support an product and that is what is happening here, some with this type of service may expecting to see features added down the road but it may never show and when the show ends some may be angry because some thought they would eventually get them. My thought on this is mixed because I seen enough items already and lack of satisfying features is frustrating. I agree with you Cinebar, Sims 4 will always be the same even with the addition of items and no real features that bring Sims 4 to the front and challenge my systems. It is like offering pre-order bonus items to entice people to buy an product.
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  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,055 Member
    But you are dismissing the many players that actually like, even love this game - that to me seem highly colored by the facts it is neither of your cup of tea. I do - in fact see many players outside of the forum that really, REALLY love this version of the game. Granted a fair number of those outright dislike Sims 3 and another fair number of those did not play the Sims since 2000 like many of us did.

    But there are a fair number of players who also have played from the first game - that do also like this version of the game. You cannot judge fairly the appreciation of the Sims 4 players who do enjoy Sims 4 and the less complicated play it offers as not everyone is a builder; not everyone want to highly manipulate the tiniest detail of the game as much as they previously may have liked doing in past games. Some people like uncomplicated, and less involvement in pre-playing than they did say 10-15 years ago. In todays society a lot of people want less complications in their lives - they just want to kick off their shoes and just get down to relaxing a bit with a game for maybe shorter periods or what ever. People do not have the kind of time they use to have to waste in preliminary functions to making a game perfectly their own - but instead want to just enjoy briefer periods of "escape" from their real world and maybe into the Sims world. Which you have to admit in Sims 4 is much easier to accomplish that desire.

    That is much like people themselves - some people like the LESS is MORE way of life now a days. They don't care for clutter and tons of stuff cluttering their lives. They like modern houses, clean lines, white walls - no dust grabbers. They call many of us older folk "Hoarders" even because we collect things - the more wall and shelf clutter- the better kind of people to the newer age of society is much frowned upon - so I can see them liking the "less is more" aspects of Sims 4; that seems to outright aggravate some players that preferred the style of Sims 2 and even 3.


    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • ehaught58ehaught58 Posts: 2,705 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    But you are dismissing the many players that actually like, even love this game - that to me seem highly colored by the facts it is neither of your cup of tea. I do - in fact see many players outside of the forum that really, REALLY love this version of the game. Granted a fair number of those outright dislike Sims 3 and another fair number of those did not play the Sims since 2000 like many of us did.

    But there are a fair number of players who also have played from the first game - that do also like this version of the game. You cannot judge fairly the appreciation of the Sims 4 players who do enjoy Sims 4 and the less complicated play it offers as not everyone is a builder; not everyone want to highly manipulate the tiniest detail of the game as much as they previously may have liked doing in past games. Some people like uncomplicated, and less involvement in pre-playing than they did say 10-15 years ago. In todays society a lot of people want less complications in their lives - they just want to kick off their shoes and just get down to relaxing a bit with a game for maybe shorter periods or what ever. People do not have the kind of time they use to have to waste in preliminary functions to making a game perfectly their own - but instead want to just enjoy briefer periods of "escape" from their real world and maybe into the Sims world. Which you have to admit in Sims 4 is much easier to accomplish that desire.

    That is much like people themselves - some people like the LESS is MORE way of life now a days. They don't care for clutter and tons of stuff cluttering their lives. They like modern houses, clean lines, white walls - no dust grabbers. They call many of us older folk "Hoarders" even because we collect things - the more wall and shelf clutter- the better kind of people to the newer age of society is much frowned upon - so I can see them liking the "less is more" aspects of Sims 4; that seems to outright aggravate some players that preferred the style of Sims 2 and even 3.

    I will have to agree with you, Reg. I guess I am guilty of being old school about building and decorating in the Sims. I am not a fan of modern houses with white walls and clean lines. And though our RL house is clean and tidy, I could see how today's youth would probably look at it and think "hoarding" because of all of the sentimental things we have saved over the years.

    As I stated earlier, I believe that the reason TS4 is the way it is, is because of EA's target audience. I truly hope that they will change direction with TS5 and go back to targeting the whole family. The one thing I have always liked about the Sims is that it is (or was) like Sesame Street in that it looks like a kids show, but it actually catered to adults with all of the underlying adult humor. I loved watching Sesame Street with my kids. They could never figure out why I was laughing so much!
    SZVLCEa.png
    "If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,055 Member
    ehaught58 wrote: »
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    But you are dismissing the many players that actually like, even love this game - that to me seem highly colored by the facts it is neither of your cup of tea. I do - in fact see many players outside of the forum that really, REALLY love this version of the game. Granted a fair number of those outright dislike Sims 3 and another fair number of those did not play the Sims since 2000 like many of us did.

    But there are a fair number of players who also have played from the first game - that do also like this version of the game. You cannot judge fairly the appreciation of the Sims 4 players who do enjoy Sims 4 and the less complicated play it offers as not everyone is a builder; not everyone want to highly manipulate the tiniest detail of the game as much as they previously may have liked doing in past games. Some people like uncomplicated, and less involvement in pre-playing than they did say 10-15 years ago. In todays society a lot of people want less complications in their lives - they just want to kick off their shoes and just get down to relaxing a bit with a game for maybe shorter periods or what ever. People do not have the kind of time they use to have to waste in preliminary functions to making a game perfectly their own - but instead want to just enjoy briefer periods of "escape" from their real world and maybe into the Sims world. Which you have to admit in Sims 4 is much easier to accomplish that desire.

    That is much like people themselves - some people like the LESS is MORE way of life now a days. They don't care for clutter and tons of stuff cluttering their lives. They like modern houses, clean lines, white walls - no dust grabbers. They call many of us older folk "Hoarders" even because we collect things - the more wall and shelf clutter- the better kind of people to the newer age of society is much frowned upon - so I can see them liking the "less is more" aspects of Sims 4; that seems to outright aggravate some players that preferred the style of Sims 2 and even 3.

    I will have to agree with you, Reg. I guess I am guilty of being old school about building and decorating in the Sims. I am not a fan of modern houses with white walls and clean lines. And though our RL house is clean and tidy, I could see how today's youth would probably look at it and think "hoarding" because of all of the sentimental things we have saved over the years.

    As I stated earlier, I believe that the reason TS4 is the way it is, is because of EA's target audience. I truly hope that they will change direction with TS5 and go back to targeting the whole family. The one thing I have always liked about the Sims is that it is (or was) like Sesame Street in that it looks like a kids show, but it actually catered to adults with all of the underlying adult humor. I loved watching Sesame Street with my kids. They could never figure out why I was laughing so much!

    Exactly!

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,565 Member

    Maybe its not always about trying to fix something broken.
    Sometimes its about starting over and creating something better.
    WGYfB8n.png
    But whatever happens Don't panic
  • ehaught58ehaught58 Posts: 2,705 Member
    Stormsview wrote: »

    Yes, I was ecstatic when I saw that on the stream! I literally sat up in my chair when I saw him suddenly switch to these tools that I did not recognize, and then started raising the terrain... I yelled "WHAT?" To tell you the truth, I thought terrain tools would be the last tools we would ever see in TS4. Thank you, EA/Maxis! :)
    SZVLCEa.png
    "If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,463 Member
    edited October 2018
    ehaught58 wrote: »
    Stormsview wrote: »

    Yes, I was ecstatic when I saw that on the stream! I literally sat up in my chair when I saw him suddenly switch to these tools that I did not recognize, and then started raising the terrain... I yelled "WHAT?" To tell you the truth, I thought terrain tools would be the last tools we would ever see in TS4. Thank you, EA/Maxis! :)

    I'm happy builders (myself included) are happy about this patch. There really is a reason for my madness, negative I may be, but I only point out the obvivous and hopefully it becomes a reality. I missed the Maxis monthly because I had appointments, but glad a long hard battle to get something some of us wanted is over. Or at least will be implemented and improved eventually. I hope I get to watch the other stream later this month and see what can be done with these tools. If anyone doubted I wanted terrain tools they could have simply read my signature. :) It's a biggy for sure. As much as toddlers were to me also. It seems they work much like those in an old MS game, (which I loved those) what was it? Ah, yes, I remember it reminds me of the terrain tools in Zoo Tycoon 2. Similar in many ways. ETA: Congrats to you @ehaught58, I will cheer and dance with you and all the really great builders! A win is a win. :D
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,463 Member
    Writin_Reg wrote: »
    But you are dismissing the many players that actually like, even love this game - that to me seem highly colored by the facts it is neither of your cup of tea. I do - in fact see many players outside of the forum that really, REALLY love this version of the game. Granted a fair number of those outright dislike Sims 3 and another fair number of those did not play the Sims since 2000 like many of us did.

    But there are a fair number of players who also have played from the first game - that do also like this version of the game. You cannot judge fairly the appreciation of the Sims 4 players who do enjoy Sims 4 and the less complicated play it offers as not everyone is a builder; not everyone want to highly manipulate the tiniest detail of the game as much as they previously may have liked doing in past games. Some people like uncomplicated, and less involvement in pre-playing than they did say 10-15 years ago. In todays society a lot of people want less complications in their lives - they just want to kick off their shoes and just get down to relaxing a bit with a game for maybe shorter periods or what ever. People do not have the kind of time they use to have to waste in preliminary functions to making a game perfectly their own - but instead want to just enjoy briefer periods of "escape" from their real world and maybe into the Sims world. Which you have to admit in Sims 4 is much easier to accomplish that desire.

    That is much like people themselves - some people like the LESS is MORE way of life now a days. They don't care for clutter and tons of stuff cluttering their lives. They like modern houses, clean lines, white walls - no dust grabbers. They call many of us older folk "Hoarders" even because we collect things - the more wall and shelf clutter- the better kind of people to the newer age of society is much frowned upon - so I can see them liking the "less is more" aspects of Sims 4; that seems to outright aggravate some players that preferred the style of Sims 2 and even 3.

    tsk, tsk, those short cuts are why long time players aren't very fond of TS4, but terrain tools is a much desired 'complicated' feature. Glad they have listened to some of us, who want more indepth things for TS4 and not the an easy peasy fly by night game. :)
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • ehaught58ehaught58 Posts: 2,705 Member
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ehaught58 wrote: »
    Stormsview wrote: »

    Yes, I was ecstatic when I saw that on the stream! I literally sat up in my chair when I saw him suddenly switch to these tools that I did not recognize, and then started raising the terrain... I yelled "WHAT?" To tell you the truth, I thought terrain tools would be the last tools we would ever see in TS4. Thank you, EA/Maxis! :)

    I'm happy builders (myself included) are happy about this patch. There really is a reason for my madness, negative I may be, but I only point out the obvivous and hopefully it becomes a reality. I missed the Maxis monthly because I had appointments, but glad a long hard battle to get something some of us wanted is over. Or at least will be implemented and improved eventually. I hope I get to watch the other stream later this month and see what can be done with these tools. If anyone doubted I wanted terrain tools they could have simply read my signature. :) It's a biggy for sure. As much as toddlers were to me also. It seems they work much like those in an old MS game, (which I loved those) what was it? Ah, yes, I remember it reminds me of the terrain tools in Zoo Tycoon 2. Similar in many ways.

    @Cinebar I think you do a great job pointing out the obvious short comings of TS4. I agree most of the time with your critiques and observations and I respect your opinions. I have enjoyed reading your threads and posts, and it's great that we hear from both sides in every issue. I have been critical myself, as I know you are aware, and it is good feedback for EA so that we help to make this game better for everyone. Keep up the good work. :smile:
    SZVLCEa.png
    "If you build it, they will come." - Movie: Field of Dreams
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,463 Member
    edited October 2018
    ehaught58 wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    ehaught58 wrote: »
    Stormsview wrote: »

    Yes, I was ecstatic when I saw that on the stream! I literally sat up in my chair when I saw him suddenly switch to these tools that I did not recognize, and then started raising the terrain... I yelled "WHAT?" To tell you the truth, I thought terrain tools would be the last tools we would ever see in TS4. Thank you, EA/Maxis! :)

    I'm happy builders (myself included) are happy about this patch. There really is a reason for my madness, negative I may be, but I only point out the obvivous and hopefully it becomes a reality. I missed the Maxis monthly because I had appointments, but glad a long hard battle to get something some of us wanted is over. Or at least will be implemented and improved eventually. I hope I get to watch the other stream later this month and see what can be done with these tools. If anyone doubted I wanted terrain tools they could have simply read my signature. :) It's a biggy for sure. As much as toddlers were to me also. It seems they work much like those in an old MS game, (which I loved those) what was it? Ah, yes, I remember it reminds me of the terrain tools in Zoo Tycoon 2. Similar in many ways.

    @Cinebar I think you do a great job pointing out the obvious short comings of TS4. I agree most of the time with your critiques and observations and I respect your opinions. I have enjoyed reading your threads and posts, and it's great that we hear from both sides in every issue. I have been critical myself, as I know you are aware, and it is good feedback for EA so that we help to make this game better for everyone. Keep up the good work. :smile:

    omg, are they also adding separate foundations, finally? I just got wind of that, too. YAY for eveyrone!!!! ETA: Ahahaha, it's like yes! Negative Nancy wins!!! Big time! lol

    Hm, maybe this live service works, sometimes. :smiley:
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,068 Member
    edited October 2018
    What if the only reason Sims, Sims 2, and Sims 3 ended when they did was because they couldn't handle more content? What if acres of ideas were left out because they just couldn't fit more in?

    Right from the start it was evident with the design and structure of Sims 4 that longevity of the game had been considered and planned for. We don't "need" any Sims at all. But I'm excited to find out what's possible when a Sims game doesn't get stopped early.
    I’m convinced that certainly is the case for Sims 3, but the fact remains that after four years of developing that game has tons of different things to do - even after years of playing after the last addition I find new things to do - and I still miss that in Sims 4. People are completely over the moon right now because they got something we had in Sims 2 and 3 right from the start. It’s “oh, yeah, and terrain tools, right, obviously” vs “yaaaaaaaay, weeeeeeeeeee, terrain tools, no waaaaaaaaay!!!!”, the old games simply can’t ‘win’ this can they, this hyping contest.

    I totally understand why builders are ecstatic about the terrain tools by the way, but it’s beyond me why that had to take four years. What took them. I always assumed it wasn’t possible in Sims 4 for some reason, but apparently it was. More and more it seems the short cuts are caused by something else than “we can’t do this”. Anyway, I’ll keep an eye on the gallery in the near future, can’t wait for a house on a hill in my game!
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 30,463 Member
    edited October 2018
    O.K. Enough dancing and cheering. I get your point @JoAnne65. I'm sort of worn out after four years of begging and whining (as some have said I have done). Three years for toddlers, four years for a terrain tool, that I'm not even sure slopes land around the house etc. or if there will be gaps between sloped land and the house etc. But I noticed a gap in a screen shot. Hope that isn't the finished product. How many more years before there are cars, or many, many more careers and aspirations? Isn't anyone actually tired of picking the same base game careers and aspirations. I think rotational players know what I'm talking about especially if they played large households. Slim pickin's in those areas we have used over and over and over. Then that brings me to the new career, oh look, it uses the Sim's pc....Again. Aren't there any careers they can add that doesn't require the Sim pc? :s Nothing new there at all as far as new object, just add more to the pie menu of the Sim pc. :confused:

    ETA: And we haven't seen if a basement can be dug into that big hill, yet. Lots of questions about this tool's limitations, and no painting the surrounding land. Odd.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • GoldmoldarGoldmoldar Posts: 10,187 Member
    edited October 2018
    It is nice they are adding some terrain tools and I hope they are able to get a lot creator tool in place. I must say the needle is slowly moving up with this announcement. It is great they are slowly working in some of the features that existed in Sims 2 and Sims. But the question for me is it enough for me to say Sims 4 is my type of game and I will wait patiently and go play the new games that are coming out and check back later and see how it progresses. I saw the trailer and I am liking the tools they made and it is definitely an game changer and I think I can like Sims 4 more with the terrain tools and wait for an lot creation tool which would definitely make me love Sims 4 and I can't wait for this patch. One other thing I would love to be expanded on is the ability to build my own apts and PH in other neighborhoods from scratch.
    Post edited by Goldmoldar on
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