For mental and emotional disabilities (assuming they do, in fact, go that far), they shouldn't limit themselves to just "experts" in the field. People who actually have these kinds of disabilities (like autism, dyslexia, etc) should certainly also have their say in how they'll be represented in the game.
I know you didn't have any negative intentions with this comment, but one major problem with research revolving around mental disabilities is the fact that people hardly ever consider the thoughts of those who actually have them. For example, when autism is the topic, very rarely do we ever hear the thoughts and opinions from people who actually have autism. It's almost ALWAYS from the perspective of their family and friends.
We need to start actually listening to people who have these disabilities, instead of family/friends and those who are just considered 'experts' in the field. There's an entirely different perspective when you do this.
This is well said.
--
I personally wouldn't mind if they implement them or not. Though I do think that it'd be cool to see sims using mobility devices if they're disabled, and I loved in S3 when elders had the option to walk with canes.
One of the problems is that people see being disabled as a huge disadvantage and a lot of extra work in the game. While it's true irl being disabled sucks- things like mobility devices, hearing aids, braille, and certain medicines help disabled people move in and interact with the world and would most likely not add any more work in the game. It would most likely just change how sims get around, and they'd probably add elevators or sign language or something. Not too big a change to be work.
Another problem is the attitude about people being too offended/ PC, but when you are physically and mentally disabled, things like the insane trait are often offensive and for good reason, we aren't being sensitive just for fun or to cause problems. People who don't know what it's like to have a mental disorder most likely designed the insane traits, tbh.
Bottom line is, representation is only good when the representation is accurate. If they add physical disabilities to the game, and they go about it like they did the insane trait, it will go badly and people will be offended because it's not true to life and shows us as caricatures for entertainment value which is dehumanizing.
Wow, this sounds so exciting! If they can do a sensitive and accurate job of portraying disability, I would love this update. Yes, an option to turn off or limit it would be important, but I cannot wait to make sims that better represent me. My disabilities are invisible, so I doubt they will implement a disability that reflects me exactly, but to have something that stands in for and symbolizes my life? Priceless.
I would love for a variety of both physical and mental disabilities to be added to the game. My younger sister was born partially blind [she can only see bright light] and I know she'd love to be able to play the Sims 4 with a Sim that represents her.
If they think burglars are too dark to implement into the game then I doubt they would implement the ability for sims to become disabled because of an incident. And, as has been mentioned a few times, stereotypes would be seriously hard (if not impossible?) to avoid in regards to implementing either mental or physical disabilities. I know this topic is being discussed a lot, but I really doubt it actually happening.
I would love for a variety of both physical and mental disabilities to be added to the game. My younger sister was born partially blind [she can only see bright light] and I know she'd love to be able to play the Sims 4 with a Sim that represents her.
I have disabilities, but I do not want them in the game. They will never portray them accurately, and I use the game as an escape from them, so why would I want the misery they cause included in my game?
The thing about options is this: I turned off the options to get thunderstorms in Seasons, and I still get thunderstorms in my game.....
Oh but maybe it's a bug, and they'll fix it?
Look up the threads about Seasons and bugs.......
Put that together with all of the sick and miserable animals that came with Pets, and that mainly summarizes my concerns about how this could be expected to possibly go.
If it happens, I hope it has that charm and humor that has always traditionally been The Sims, but let's just say I have some reservations about it.
If they're going to ship an update with disabilities, it'd better be one without any bugs or flaws (a feat the team have yet to accomplish BTW) or there will be so much outrage.
After, the gender patch people were upset when their sims spawned in clothing meant for the other gender, some accused Maxis of forcing it down their throats, until a patch fixed the issues. Same thing with the extra skin tones update. Simmers went up in arms when they realized there were some flaws with the skins and it caused a lot of trouble, with simmers with lighter skin tones complaining that they felt excluded.
If Maxis wants to bring only physical disabilities in the game, there will be outrage from simmers who want mental disabilities too. Then there will be the groups yelling at the devs for not doing something right, for the new bugs introduced by the update, for their 'imaginary' sims suddenly sprouting disabilities they didn't want.
Long story short. If the devs are going to do this, they better make darn sure all angles are covered or it could horribly backfire.
Well i think its hard for devs too. They try to make everyone happy but its impossible. I think u can on/off dissabelities because its really sensitive topic to add.
But i think still that this is life simulation game and this game is too soft. If there is going to be farming pack people would not that u could eat animals etc. Like you DO have choice for not eat or make dissabled sims. So i just wish people would not take the possibility from others to do so. People who are vegan are offended about farm pack and meat but maybe if i would be really religious person and i would not accept that you can make gay sims? would it be okay that devs would say 'okay simmers we are not making possible to make gay sims because it might offend some of our simmers' All tho i'm not religious and i like that i can make my gay sims but you maybe get the point.
I'm just type of simmer who want all kinds of shocking this to happen and i think sims 4 is going to be too soft. Ofc u can download mods but i would like EA content.
If they think burglars are too dark to implement into the game then I doubt they would implement the ability for sims to become disabled because of an incident. And, as has been mentioned a few times, stereotypes would be seriously hard (if not impossible?) to avoid in regards to implementing either mental or physical disabilities. I know this topic is being discussed a lot, but I really doubt it actually happening.
As far as I know, they've never said that "burglars are too dark". I believe it was one YouTuber's speculation and people started to repeat that, as if that's some official statement.
I hope the do this it would be a great expansion, they could add a seeing eye dog and wheelchairs. Oooo, and canes could come back. Though it be cool to see how the handle it because there is a lot to think about when making this, like how to make the interaction with the bed and bathroom work and what about all the public places with steps and people who are on wheelchairs can't get up. I love this pack idea and Im not looking down on it, I'm just saying future problems could arise.
I'd like this in the game. At first I was kind of indifferent but with more thought I'm positive I'll use it for my own gameplay, character creation ect. I have wanted functional wheelchairs and cane use especially. I'm really looking forward to having this in my game. If we are getting so many heavy hints that they are looking into it.. I'd say it's in the works at some level.
I'm sure it will be made optional in CAS or delivered in some way to give us control over it since it's a touchy subject for many.
I hope and guess they do it like the gender options are done now. That way people can create it if they want it and leave it be if they don't.
I'm disabled, and I'm not comfortable with the idea of trying to add disabilities to the Sims. Representation is wonderful, but, to put it bluntly, I'm not sure I trust the Sims team to do it properly. No offence to them, but there is such a huge variation in the world of disabilities (severity, symptoms, impact etc.), and people are going to get potentially upset and offended if things aren't done the way they think is "right" or applicable to them - and since that can vary from person to person, it just seems like a big minefield to me. It's a really sensitive topic.
Plus, on a selfish note, I don't want disability in my game because my disabilities already impact every other aspect of my life (including my ability to play Sims sometimes)... the Sims is one of the few escapes I have, and I don't want that to change.
I’m really very indifferent about this. If it will make people happy then yay, but as I understand it, it also makes people very unhappy. I mainly regret a lot of time will be put into something that probably won’t add any interesting gameplay.
I dont know...I can see this going very wrong as people tend to get triggered very easily.
For example, the argument about the insane trait being offensive
Yes, I personally think it is a very bad idea. I guess we shall wait and see...
I don't think it would be offensive. I think only simmers with these disabilities could answer that one, as many simmers who don't have them just assume that they will be offended. Many simmers have expressed not being able to make their Sim selves since early S3 and maybe even before. Certainly, if they didn't want to use it, they would play in another way, but at the same time, I don't think they would find sims like themselves to be offensive. I think it would add variety, realism, and a chance for simmers who want their sim selves in the Sims game to be able to be there as they are made and experience the Sims in virtual reality as themselves. I'm glad it would be a free patch, but I would buy it if it wasn't. They could always put in a way to get surgery at the hospital or something of that nature as they did for allergies in S3. That way, if you chose play a certain way in a game then you could alter/heal your sims.
I have mental disorders, it's hard and very scary sometimes, but I would really like mental illness in the game! My game style is something like "American McGee's Alice" and "Alice: Madness Returns", I love when my sims suffer, I hate the "Rainbow Utopia" style, so I fully support the introduction of mental illness to the game, but it's bound to should be an option!
P.S - I have "Agoraphobia" and "Anthropophobia", and I don't left my home for 6 years, so I would like to see sims who are afraid of other sims and are afraid to get out of their house.
If you don't like it, don't play with it)
I have severe generalized anxiety, panic disorder, depression, and agoraphobia too. It would mean the world to me if I could make a sim like me, but I'm afraid they're only going to add physical disabilities. Which by the way, I think would be awesome if they did! I just want to see mental disabilities added too.
I also suffer from disabilities and it doesn't even enter my mind when they add a trait like that in the sims. I don't compare myself and what I go through with the game. I don't use a wheelchair, but see nothing wrong with putting them in. People with disabilities exist and shouldn't be hid, but should have a chance to create their sim selves. I'm sure they will fix an off button like they have for lifeforms, storms, or other things simmers don't want in their present game.
I hope the do this it would be a great expansion, they could add a seeing eye dog and wheelchairs. Oooo, and canes could come back. Though it be cool to see how the handle it because there is a lot to think about when making this, like how to make the interaction with the bed and bathroom work and what about all the public places with steps and people who are on wheelchairs can't get up. I love this pack idea and Im not looking down on it, I'm just saying future problems could arise.
Someone said early on in the conversation that it would be a patch if they decide to do it.
I think it would be interesting to have disabilities in game. It would make people who play sims who have disabilities could make it a better game play. Honestly i would like to see it. Maybe there could be an option where you can disable disabilities if you dont want your sims getting hurt at work or get into an accident. I know some may disagree on this, but it would be cool to see some more realistic lifestyles in the game.
Reading more comments, and seeing than will be not a paid pack, Im concerned than will be:
1 - No an option to on/ff disabilites (this because no an paid Pack)
2 - Tied to 1, to no disgust some simmers and adapt to most play styles, disabilities will be CAS-only
I also forgot to add my own comment:
Disabilites patch should focus only at physical disabilities, as seem than mental and emotional disabilties is a quite wide spectrum and quite sensitive
I dont know...I can see this going very wrong as people tend to get triggered very easily.
For example, the argument about the insane trait being offensive
Yes, I personally think it is a very bad idea. I guess we shall wait and see...
I don't think it would be offensive. I think only simmers with these disabilities could answer that one, as many simmers who don't have them just assume that they will be offended. Many simmers have expressed not being able to make their Sim selves since early S3 and maybe even before. Certainly, if they didn't want to use it, they would play in another way, but at the same time, I don't think they would find sims like themselves to be offensive. I think it would add variety, realism, and a chance for simmers who want their sim selves in the Sims game to be able to be there as they are made and experience the Sims in virtual reality as themselves. I'm glad it would be a free patch, but I would buy it if it wasn't. They could always put in a way to get surgery at the hospital or something of that nature as they did for allergies in S3. That way, if you chose play a certain way in a game then you could alter/heal your sims.
I have mental disorders, it's hard and very scary sometimes, but I would really like mental illness in the game! My game style is something like "American McGee's Alice" and "Alice: Madness Returns", I love when my sims suffer, I hate the "Rainbow Utopia" style, so I fully support the introduction of mental illness to the game, but it's bound to should be an option!
P.S - I have "Agoraphobia" and "Anthropophobia", and I don't left my home for 6 years, so I would like to see sims who are afraid of other sims and are afraid to get out of their house.
If you don't like it, don't play with it)
I have severe generalized anxiety, panic disorder, depression, and agoraphobia too. It would mean the world to me if I could make a sim like me, but I'm afraid they're only going to add physical disabilities. Which by the way, I think would be awesome if they did! I just want to see mental disabilities added too.
I also suffer from disabilities and it doesn't even enter my mind when they add a trait like that in the sims. I don't compare myself and what I go through with the game. I don't use a wheelchair, but see nothing wrong with putting them in. People with disabilities exist and shouldn't be hid, but should have a chance to create their sim selves. I'm sure they will fix an off button like they have for lifeforms, storms, or other things simmers don't want in their present game.
All that being said, would Sims who are in chairs just teleport like the elevator? Would townies show up in chairs? Would Simmers have to rebuild homes, and other buildings to allow for ramps and shorter sinks and counters and commodes? Would animations work correclty when Sims bend down to kiss someone in a chair? Or is it going to be correct and some Sims not be able to woohoo or have kids? Would all multitasking have to change, because of course Sims in chairs would want to do a lot of things other Sims do. Such as playing a guitar, reaching the piano, telling jokes with microphone, moving to the regular chair for the chesss game, getting into bed, changing clothes, getting up stairs, walking a dog on a leash. Etc.
I would prefer not to be reminded of such real life problems to that degree of reality, however, I can see why someone would want this, but what about players who (like those who are glad there are no cars) play a different story than 'modern' and would rather Sims who own cars, and or in wheelchairs don't spawn on their home lots or pass by or visit so they can play their medieval story or whatever. Not because they don't think it shouldn't be in game, but becaues it makes it harder to actually play a less modern game. Like cell phones tied to all Sims. The other thread that got closed because some didn't understand saying this would be 'cool' is insensitive to those who live with this and more, had a lot of reasons and legit questions of why not and how it might hinder gameplay rather than broaden it. Or be too painful a reminder.
When if it were done correctly with the limitations of some disabled actually put in game, there would be more complaints because if any of us had to deal with what I go through, or others, or some in my family, they would be upset by all those limitations put on their Sim in a game.
{EA_Lanna: Edited to remove potentially baiting remark}
Post edited by EA_Lanna on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
Well i think its hard for devs too. They try to make everyone happy but its impossible. I think u can on/off dissabelities because its really sensitive topic to add.
But i think still that this is life simulation game and this game is too soft. If there is going to be farming pack people would not that u could eat animals etc. Like you DO have choice for not eat or make dissabled sims. So i just wish people would not take the possibility from others to do so. People who are vegan are offended about farm pack and meat but maybe if i would be really religious person and i would not accept that you can make gay sims? would it be okay that devs would say 'okay simmers we are not making possible to make gay sims because it might offend some of our simmers' All tho i'm not religious and i like that i can make my gay sims but you maybe get the point.
I'm just type of simmer who want all kinds of shocking this to happen and i think sims 4 is going to be too soft. Ofc u can download mods but i would like EA content.
I wish would could have some religious Sims. But that's a no.
{EA_Lanna: edited to remove double quote}
Post edited by EA_Lanna on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I took care of my mother and father for very many of the last years of their life. I lived with them and saw them through everything so they didn't have to go into a facility. Many devices were needed for ambulation during that time. My father was even just basically disabled but not chronically ill/sick for a number of those years. My mother never understood that he was not sick during a great deal of that time. I would overhear her basically indicating that he's dying even after he was in remission the first time. She just couldn't grasp the concept of being well but needing medical equipment to function. She never changed that outlook.. couldn't. I think she thought once you need devices you are just sick. This just isn't the case. Many people are functioning at their best ability .. and they need devices to get along. I'm heading there with hip problems. I'm pretty sure eventually it will catch up to me. When it does.. if it does, I'll still have to function and hopefully function well.
As a nurse also I've come in contact with many others from children on up that are also not sick. They are or can be functional people. Sometimes they need to be taught how to function... some take to it, some don't.
I'm not offended in the least to see something that represents functionally disabled people in this way. They are just normal people, you and me. They do normal things. My father loved computer stuff. He didn't play the sims.. but he played other games. Did many things to keep himself occupied actually.
Personally I hope and am guessing they don't go down the chronically ill path or even touch it because it really is a whole other story. They couldn't begin to represent that well. I don't think that would be their intention though.
That's why I hope if they do this.. when they do this they only focus on functional disabilities. Those that need various medical equipment to get around. I'm under no illusion that it can be fully represented. There is no way. Just as they can't fully represent other aspects of our lives in this game.
I can see how representing this as another normal form of living would be a good thing. As I said before I was indifferent before. My mind has been changed by the forums more than anything else.
I do hope it comes like the gender patch. Take it or leave it in your game. I'd be taking it.
Comments
This is well said.
--
I personally wouldn't mind if they implement them or not. Though I do think that it'd be cool to see sims using mobility devices if they're disabled, and I loved in S3 when elders had the option to walk with canes.
One of the problems is that people see being disabled as a huge disadvantage and a lot of extra work in the game. While it's true irl being disabled sucks- things like mobility devices, hearing aids, braille, and certain medicines help disabled people move in and interact with the world and would most likely not add any more work in the game. It would most likely just change how sims get around, and they'd probably add elevators or sign language or something. Not too big a change to be work.
Another problem is the attitude about people being too offended/ PC, but when you are physically and mentally disabled, things like the insane trait are often offensive and for good reason, we aren't being sensitive just for fun or to cause problems. People who don't know what it's like to have a mental disorder most likely designed the insane traits, tbh.
Bottom line is, representation is only good when the representation is accurate. If they add physical disabilities to the game, and they go about it like they did the insane trait, it will go badly and people will be offended because it's not true to life and shows us as caricatures for entertainment value which is dehumanizing.
I have disabilities, but I do not want them in the game. They will never portray them accurately, and I use the game as an escape from them, so why would I want the misery they cause included in my game?
Oh but maybe it's a bug, and they'll fix it?
Look up the threads about Seasons and bugs.......
Put that together with all of the sick and miserable animals that came with Pets, and that mainly summarizes my concerns about how this could be expected to possibly go.
If it happens, I hope it has that charm and humor that has always traditionally been The Sims, but let's just say I have some reservations about it.
After, the gender patch people were upset when their sims spawned in clothing meant for the other gender, some accused Maxis of forcing it down their throats, until a patch fixed the issues. Same thing with the extra skin tones update. Simmers went up in arms when they realized there were some flaws with the skins and it caused a lot of trouble, with simmers with lighter skin tones complaining that they felt excluded.
If Maxis wants to bring only physical disabilities in the game, there will be outrage from simmers who want mental disabilities too. Then there will be the groups yelling at the devs for not doing something right, for the new bugs introduced by the update, for their 'imaginary' sims suddenly sprouting disabilities they didn't want.
Long story short. If the devs are going to do this, they better make darn sure all angles are covered or it could horribly backfire.
But i think still that this is life simulation game and this game is too soft. If there is going to be farming pack people would not that u could eat animals etc. Like you DO have choice for not eat or make dissabled sims. So i just wish people would not take the possibility from others to do so. People who are vegan are offended about farm pack and meat but maybe if i would be really religious person and i would not accept that you can make gay sims? would it be okay that devs would say 'okay simmers we are not making possible to make gay sims because it might offend some of our simmers' All tho i'm not religious and i like that i can make my gay sims but you maybe get the point.
I'm just type of simmer who want all kinds of shocking this to happen and i think sims 4 is going to be too soft. Ofc u can download mods but i would like EA content.
As far as I know, they've never said that "burglars are too dark". I believe it was one YouTuber's speculation and people started to repeat that, as if that's some official statement.
I'm sure it will be made optional in CAS or delivered in some way to give us control over it since it's a touchy subject for many.
I hope and guess they do it like the gender options are done now. That way people can create it if they want it and leave it be if they don't.
Plus, on a selfish note, I don't want disability in my game because my disabilities already impact every other aspect of my life (including my ability to play Sims sometimes)... the Sims is one of the few escapes I have, and I don't want that to change.
my new simblr
Pretty much this^^
I don't think it would be offensive. I think only simmers with these disabilities could answer that one, as many simmers who don't have them just assume that they will be offended. Many simmers have expressed not being able to make their Sim selves since early S3 and maybe even before. Certainly, if they didn't want to use it, they would play in another way, but at the same time, I don't think they would find sims like themselves to be offensive. I think it would add variety, realism, and a chance for simmers who want their sim selves in the Sims game to be able to be there as they are made and experience the Sims in virtual reality as themselves. I'm glad it would be a free patch, but I would buy it if it wasn't. They could always put in a way to get surgery at the hospital or something of that nature as they did for allergies in S3. That way, if you chose play a certain way in a game then you could alter/heal your sims.
I also suffer from disabilities and it doesn't even enter my mind when they add a trait like that in the sims. I don't compare myself and what I go through with the game. I don't use a wheelchair, but see nothing wrong with putting them in. People with disabilities exist and shouldn't be hid, but should have a chance to create their sim selves. I'm sure they will fix an off button like they have for lifeforms, storms, or other things simmers don't want in their present game.
Someone said early on in the conversation that it would be a patch if they decide to do it.
1 - No an option to on/ff disabilites (this because no an paid Pack)
2 - Tied to 1, to no disgust some simmers and adapt to most play styles, disabilities will be CAS-only
I also forgot to add my own comment:
Disabilites patch should focus only at physical disabilities, as seem than mental and emotional disabilties is a quite wide spectrum and quite sensitive
All that being said, would Sims who are in chairs just teleport like the elevator? Would townies show up in chairs? Would Simmers have to rebuild homes, and other buildings to allow for ramps and shorter sinks and counters and commodes? Would animations work correclty when Sims bend down to kiss someone in a chair? Or is it going to be correct and some Sims not be able to woohoo or have kids? Would all multitasking have to change, because of course Sims in chairs would want to do a lot of things other Sims do. Such as playing a guitar, reaching the piano, telling jokes with microphone, moving to the regular chair for the chesss game, getting into bed, changing clothes, getting up stairs, walking a dog on a leash. Etc.
I would prefer not to be reminded of such real life problems to that degree of reality, however, I can see why someone would want this, but what about players who (like those who are glad there are no cars) play a different story than 'modern' and would rather Sims who own cars, and or in wheelchairs don't spawn on their home lots or pass by or visit so they can play their medieval story or whatever. Not because they don't think it shouldn't be in game, but becaues it makes it harder to actually play a less modern game. Like cell phones tied to all Sims. The other thread that got closed because some didn't understand saying this would be 'cool' is insensitive to those who live with this and more, had a lot of reasons and legit questions of why not and how it might hinder gameplay rather than broaden it. Or be too painful a reminder.
When if it were done correctly with the limitations of some disabled actually put in game, there would be more complaints because if any of us had to deal with what I go through, or others, or some in my family, they would be upset by all those limitations put on their Sim in a game.
{EA_Lanna: Edited to remove potentially baiting remark}
{EA_Lanna: edited to remove double quote}
Disabilities are not fun for those that have them, or those that live with them.
As a nurse also I've come in contact with many others from children on up that are also not sick. They are or can be functional people. Sometimes they need to be taught how to function... some take to it, some don't.
I'm not offended in the least to see something that represents functionally disabled people in this way. They are just normal people, you and me. They do normal things. My father loved computer stuff. He didn't play the sims.. but he played other games. Did many things to keep himself occupied actually.
Personally I hope and am guessing they don't go down the chronically ill path or even touch it because it really is a whole other story. They couldn't begin to represent that well. I don't think that would be their intention though.
That's why I hope if they do this.. when they do this they only focus on functional disabilities. Those that need various medical equipment to get around. I'm under no illusion that it can be fully represented. There is no way. Just as they can't fully represent other aspects of our lives in this game.
I can see how representing this as another normal form of living would be a good thing. As I said before I was indifferent before. My mind has been changed by the forums more than anything else.
I do hope it comes like the gender patch. Take it or leave it in your game. I'd be taking it.
I want free toasters!
I would like a free, new world that looks like London in the 1800's.
I would like that to