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My First Pet - was there any other way?

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LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
One of the things some people worried about was that after Cats&Dogs came out, we would never again see Cats&Dogs stuff released.

Let me get this straight - I'm not sticking up for EA. I'm deeply concerned at the idea of packs that need other packs to use stuff. If they made more Pet Stuff, should it have been a free patch? Probably. Should the Hamster have been in some kind of big Minor Pets pack? Likely. I just feel like it's worth looking at this from the angle of the Devs too.

I compare it to Toddler Stuff and Parenting, which wouldn't work if you didn't have the Toddler Patch. THe difference is that nobody had to pay for the Toddler Patch because it was such a game-changer. First, Devs make what EA tells them. EA doesn't check in with orders for every pack but they do give its go-ahead, and if they turn up at the door of the Stuff Pack guys and tell them to make more Pet's stuff to put in a pack, they've gotta do it. We don't know the story there.

The big question is, would it have been possible for all of the stuff in My First Pet to be in Cats&Dogs? The Devs in C&D had a lot more to do than just making objects - they had to make CAP, they had to code pet behaviour, they had to animate pets and Sims interactions with pets, they had to code the basic items pets use, like dog bowls and beds. They had to code Sims interacting with pets. They had pet clothes to make. They even had a world to make, with Districts. That's a LOT of coding right from scratch. It's not exactly the simple 'glorified mod' that you download for free off the mod sites.

If the EP Devs had made the pet-items in the My First Pet pack to come with Cats&Dogs, would it have subtracted from the quality of the Cats&Dogs pack? If so, then it's worth the pack coming separately while taking into account the fact that everybody likes free stuff but you don't often get something for nothing.

If you think it wouldn't have affected the quality of the pack, and that includes the new clothes we're getting, then go into a little more depth, but please don't judge the Devs.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.

Comments

  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    Ah, but all the coding in Cats&Dogs was completely from scratch, unlike Sims 3 pets copied from Sims 2. You can't control your pets; they control themselves. And there's no way you can compare the glorified objects of Sims 1 to Sims 4 directly.

    So go into a little more depth about how it would have been possible.

    And I always acknowledge the "I want something for free" statement, but it's not a very good argument.
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
  • HimynameisHimynameis Posts: 336 Member
    Loanet wrote: »
    Ah, but all the coding in Cats&Dogs was completely from scratch, unlike Sims 3 pets copied from Sims 2. You can't control your pets; they control themselves. And there's no way you can compare the glorified objects of Sims 1 to Sims 4 directly.

    So go into a little more depth about how it would have been possible.

    And I always acknowledge the "I want something for free" statement, but it's not a very good argument.

    And the coding for the sims 2 was all done from scratch same as the sims 1. What's your point? They definitely could of and should of made this for the EXPANSION pack
  • RnM92RnM92 Posts: 222 Member
    edited March 2018
    Loanet wrote: »
    Ah, but all the coding in Cats&Dogs was completely from scratch, unlike Sims 3 pets copied from Sims 2. You can't control your pets; they control themselves. And there's no way you can compare the glorified objects of Sims 1 to Sims 4 directly.

    So go into a little more depth about how it would have been possible.

    And I always acknowledge the "I want something for free" statement, but it's not a very good argument.

    Sims 2 coding was also done from scratch, as it made the jump from 2D to 3D, yet they managed to do what they did (small pets, pet shops, pet skills, pet jobs, decent pet AI, pet UI and family tree, plenty of varied objects for pets). It would have been entirely possible this time around had the Sims team been given the enough budget and enough time as with the previous games. EA is a billion dollar profit making corporation, so they're not exactly short of money. There really is no excuse for it.

    You're also forgetting that computer and video game technology is relative and has made massive improvements since 2000 when the first Sims game came out. Making games has got a lot easier as a result. How do you know for certain that making Pets for the Sims 1 wasn't as hard as it is now for the Sims 4?

    No it's not "I want something for free" (and for one thing who has actually ever said that?), it's "I expect the product I'm paying for to be of a good enough quality and not worse than previous offerings". Just because I have expectations and standards as is my right as a prospective customer, does not mean I want something for nothing. I want the product to actually reflect what I've spent on it, not just be expected to accept whatever they throw at me and be grateful for it.
  • ElectraRaiElectraRai Posts: 99 Member
    Loanet wrote: »
    Devs.

    We need to remeber one thing, not only "devs" are responsible for whats ep, sp and gp has to offer.
    You need to remeber who they are working for - EA.

    I guess a lot of people are aware whats happening now in gaming industry (like situation with another ea game). And i think is kinda bad to put blame on wrong people.

  • ElectraRaiElectraRai Posts: 99 Member
    I wanted to sat
    ElectraRai wrote: »
    Loanet wrote: »
    Devs.

    We need to remeber one thing, not only "devs" are responsible for whats ep, sp and gp has to offer.

    I wanted to say the devs are not the only ones!
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    edited March 2018
    Technology has improved. That doesn't mean it's easier to make games. It means games can be bigger. Everything new in Sims 4 is being coded from scratch, just like in SIms 2 - which was made back when Maxis still owned The SIms. It's true that EA could easily increase the budget of the Sims and make us bigger packs without increasing the price. They're milking us like cows; it's what EA's been doing for years now.

    *sigh*

    It's just that I'm so sick of people jumping up and saying this pack will be terrible and "I'm not getting it because it will be terrible". Then acting like the people who are considering the pack are idiots. I thought the Bowling Pack was awful yet there are people out there who love Bowling that much.

    It isn't really right to make partial games but The SIms has used expansions since Sims 1, when Maxis ran the place. I'm not asking if this was a low blow from EA to grub some extra bucks. I just am not sure that the GP guys really COULD have made the extra pet items in the first place. How else could we get more pet items? The alternative seems to be a drip-feed of a single suit every few months. For example, to celebrate their 18th birthday, EA gave us a t-shirt with two swatches.
    ElectraRai wrote: »
    I wanted to sat
    ElectraRai wrote: »
    Loanet wrote: »
    Devs.

    We need to remeber one thing, not only "devs" are responsible for whats ep, sp and gp has to offer.

    I wanted to say the devs are not the only ones!

    I thought I said that already. That EA tells Devs what to do ("Make Pet Stuff!") and okays everything they do suggest for themselves.
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    RnM92 wrote: »
    Loanet wrote: »
    Ah, but all the coding in Cats&Dogs was completely from scratch, unlike Sims 3 pets copied from Sims 2. You can't control your pets; they control themselves. And there's no way you can compare the glorified objects of Sims 1 to Sims 4 directly.

    So go into a little more depth about how it would have been possible.

    And I always acknowledge the "I want something for free" statement, but it's not a very good argument.

    You're also forgetting that computer and video game technology is relative and has made massive improvements since 2000 when the first Sims game came out. Making games has got a lot easier as a result. How do you know for certain that making Pets for the Sims 1 wasn't as hard as it is now for the Sims 4?

    Quite the opposite actually, dev teams have grown tremendously and budget have skyrocketed, it's now far more costly to make AAA games.
  • LaraNocturnalLaraNocturnal Posts: 74 Member
    Loanet wrote: »

    It's just that I'm so sick of people jumping up and saying this pack will be terrible and "I'm not getting it because it will be terrible". Then acting like the people who are considering the pack are plum.

    There has always been the danger hanging over everything that EA would slice up the packs and milk as much money as possible out of withheld content. This is one of the things they do.

    And now they've done it blatantly to the Sims 4. The community has a small chance to nip this in the bud by NOT SUPPORTING IT.

    If this pack is a success as it is right now, it's a guarantee that this is going to continue happening, more and more. Worse and worse. This is just the beginning.

    And that's if there aren't already more packs like this in the works. Basic weather for 40€, with umbrellas and sunburns etc in a pack and recolours of the furniture that came in the expansion. This is the future of TS4 if this pack does anything but utterly flop.
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    edited March 2018
    Loanet wrote: »

    It's just that I'm so sick of people jumping up and saying this pack will be terrible and "I'm not getting it because it will be terrible". Then acting like the people who are considering the pack are plum.

    There has always been the danger hanging over everything that EA would slice up the packs and milk as much money as possible out of withheld content. This is one of the things they do.

    And now they've done it blatantly to the Sims 4. The community has a small chance to plum this in the bud by NOT SUPPORTING IT.

    If this pack is a success as it is right now, it's a guarantee that this is going to continue happening, more and more. Worse and worse. This is just the beginning.

    And that's if there aren't already more packs like this in the works. Basic weather for 40€, with umbrellas and sunburns etc in a pack and recolours of the furniture that came in the expansion. This is the future of TS4 if this pack does anything but utterly flop.

    While it's one possible future, I think people are really a little too paranoid about Seasons. Remember it was in production long before My First Pets was even started. If it's to be split up, MFP wouldn't be the cause of it. The success of MFP cannot logically be any greater than that of C&D, so don't get all "If you buy this pack you're a traitor to THe Sims". If you've got C&D, get this pack. Or don't. But don't think it'll change anything now.

    While EA continually disappoints me with how greedy it is, to the point that I personally predicted the Toddler Stuff pack, I think this is more of a threat for SPs, which are made in about six months and considered less vital to gameplay, more than a threat for EPs. I also am very suspicious that the Supernatrual packs will need each other to function fully.

    Also, let's try to stick to the pack in question.
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
  • LaraNocturnalLaraNocturnal Posts: 74 Member
    Loanet wrote: »



    While it's one possible future, I think people are really overreacting about Seasons. Remember it was in production long before My First Pets was even started.

    I mean.. I sort of didn't think they'd do this with something like pets, but here we are. I see no reason to assume they will show restraint in the future.

    I was actually really okay with how the toddler thing went. A better way to milk this without the ill will would have been to do something similar here.

    Here's your cats and dogs patched in! Now here's a pack with a vet career, BB objects, etc. And here's another pack for small pets. Here's yet another stuff pack for pets, etc.

    That's a much better way to milk people into buying everything without making them feel ripped off and resentful. I would have been okay with that.

    But that's not what they did, they stripped stuff out of C&D to sell separately. If C&D had've been a game pack, that would've been okay. But it wasn't.

    I own every pack and i feel like I've got egg on my face. This is not what you do to your long time customers. As a result, I refuse to spend another euro on this game. And I'm not alone. All because they couldn't take it anymore and had to start being EA.
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    edited March 2018
    Loanet wrote: »



    While it's one possible future, I think people are really overreacting about Seasons. Remember it was in production long before My First Pets was even started.

    I mean.. I sort of didn't think they'd do this with something like pets, but here we are. I see no reason to assume they will show restraint in the future.

    I was actually really okay with how the toddler thing went. A better way to milk this without the ill will would have been to do something similar here.

    Here's your cats and dogs patched in! Now here's a pack with a vet career, BB objects, etc. And here's another pack for small pets. Here's yet another stuff pack for pets, etc.

    That's a much better way to milk people into buying everything without making them feel ripped off and resentful. I would have been okay with that.

    But that's not what they did, they stripped stuff out of C&D to sell separately. If C&D had've been a game pack, that would've been okay. But it wasn't.

    I own every pack and i feel like I've got egg on my face. This is not what you do to your long time customers. As a result, I refuse to spend another euro on this game. And I'm not alone. All because they couldn't take it anymore and had to start being EA.

    Ah, yes. I apologise if I've read you wrong. Yes, I too am rather disappointed in them. Thus far you can buy any combination of packs and play the full content. But of course, you needed Get Together to use clubs.

    We would never have gotten the full Cats&Dogs for free. We never have. Even lacking the other pets, it's just too huge. Too much of a task. It's easier and less painful to accept that now. I don't think they actively stripped items out of it. That would require the EP Devs making reskins and new designs rather than doing the programming, then not using it. I'm saying that EA probably turned to the SP and said, "C&D went great! Now make some more!" Even Toddlers needed Parenting to have a proper parent experience, so if anything they milked that free patch even more.

    "To show my discontent with this single pack, I'm not buying any more Sims packs ever! The lack of my money will certainly show EA who's boss!" Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Go right ahead and don't buy packs that require other packs to play, if you don't like them, but to stop buying all of them full stop won't help at all. If this pack fails, let it happen naturally.

    Can't stand wall prints myself. They're really just padding. Even rugs are better.

    The hamster cage could have been part of a minor pets pack.
    Post edited by Loanet on
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,114 Member
    Perhaps the Devs shouldn't have spent their time creating 50 wall decals and instead added the objects from My First Pet to C&D. Then they could have released the hamster/rat/hedgehog/Bubalus cage in a free patch.

    So much this! It’s no coincidence that the SP items are all ripped from either existing C&D items or matching the design of C&D items. The EP team basically handed the SP team part of their pack so they could make some cheap decals and tweet about how beautiful the new world is.
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    edited March 2018
    Perhaps the Devs shouldn't have spent their time creating 50 wall decals and instead added the objects from My First Pet to C&D. Then they could have released the hamster/rat/hedgehog/Bubalus cage in a free patch.

    So much this! It’s no coincidence that the SP items are all ripped from either existing C&D items or matching the design of C&D items. The EP team basically handed the SP team part of their pack so they could make some cheap decals and tweet about how beautiful the new world is.

    Now this is an argument I can roll with.

    Remember that the Stuff Pack Devs and the EP devs are NOT the same team. And I doubt they go around 'handing' each other their work when it's the SP Team's JOB to make that extra stuff while it's their job to program a cat's brain. Sharing the coding for a pet bed, yes. Actual completed items, no. I do hate it when people act like the SP team is doing this because they're lazy.

    But cut all the prints, and the stuff that specifically requires C&D, and you can probably find the time to make another kind of terrarium - possibly as simple as taking out your turtles and petting them. But the pack wouldn't look very big without those prints, would it? I feel like the hamster cage may have taken a lot of work that we didn't see, but it's still only one item.

    I don't think that the EP devs made the stuff in the SP. This means nothing was actually cut from C&D. But that extra pet stuff could have been a patch - there's about five pet-only items, all redesigns but the same programming. They look great. I don't believe that having them in the original pack was as easy as some people insist. But I do wish that EA didn't have the gall to tell us to pay for them.

    And just as some more choices for pet clothes are nice, they're not actually something people were clamouring for. Those, we could have been drip-fed and we wouldn't have noticed.
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
  • Strawburry3Strawburry3 Posts: 329 Member
    If this stuff pack added additional gameplay and not just colorful furniture, I might’ve accepted it. But from the looks of it, it doesn’t seem to add anything worthwhile. So you can brighten up your home, and throw your kids a hamster to take out of its cage and hold. It’s a glorified fish bowl. That is why people are saying this SP could’ve been in C&D - - or should’ve been a GP to develope and add features meaningful to our gameplay. They literally advisertised it as “Take care of a new pet, new clothes for C&D, decorate with pet prints”. Seriously, what the plum? It is just a stuff pack, I know, but if EA is on such a budget with TS4 you’d think they’d use their resources wisely and not throw out a half baked pack. If you don’t have C&D you don’t even get your full ten dollars worth of content. It’s just not fair.

    And I am happy for people excited for this, I just wish they expected more from the people who have potential to make QUALITY content but don’t.
    tumblr_mxol5mE3eQ1qdczlgo1_500.gif
    Hey, Nana..
  • HermitgirlHermitgirl Posts: 8,825 Member
    I'm not happy with this upcoming pack so far... but no I don't think they could have put every little pet into a PETS EP in the Sims 4 and have had any focused quality come out of it. There are so many little pets that have come in the past and other favorites that haven't that could have made it in that in my opinion they could not have made and animated well enough to suit me. I'm talking rodents, lizards, spiders, snakes, different bird types, ferrets and also possible horses and farm animals. Whatever they would have made something would have been missing... or it would have looked like they cut corners and we probably wouldn't have been able to interact with the few they decided to include much or at all. I'd rather not have window dressing be called a pet.

    Seeing the way this pack is coming I would have preferred a small pet pack though as a GP or even an EP depending on what was added in with them. The thought of not supporting them anymore... well that is just not gonna happen here for me. This is my favorite sims iteration and I enjoy my game. I know many who don't or are disappointed in the content so far might not get that, and that's okay. You do you. I however will get what I want or need to fill it out. It might be my last Sims game and I'm gonna enjoy it. The hamsters... well, I don't play with kids much, and the thought of dressing up my pets makes me shudder. I can see where it could be a boon to those that do. I'll watch the live stream and probably this will be the first time I'll end up caving and getting a pack simply because I want 3 things in it. Not gonna be happy about it and if they tie all future packs with little kid stuff I can see my discontent growing. I don't think that will happen but I'm smarting right now.

    I think this series still has a long way to go.. longer than other people are assuming the run will be. They need ideas for stuff packs to fill in those spaces because this is the path they have chosen in which to release stuff this time around. I don't think any attempts to hope for or make it otherwise will amount to squat. I was hoping the stuff packs would get more niche personally because I'm not a fan of looking for cc anymore and maybe that will still happen. Just got a bad taste this time around that I have to get stuff I have no interest in to get a rodent in my game.
    egTcBMc.png
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    edited March 2018
    I don't think we will actually need to put in effort to make this pack fail. If you don't have C&D then you're probably not going to buy it - at least not until you do have Cats&Dogs. Even if you do have C&D you won't automatically buy it because not everybody likes tacky furniture. I can't imagine it influencing people to buy C&D unless they already intended to. Either way, it has by its nature limited its success.

    So nobody needs to say "Buying this makes you a traitor." Or "The SP Devs did this because they're lazy". Or "I'm never buying another Sims pack!" It's EA's fault and I can't imagine this idea being a rampant success. They'll probably use it as an excuse to say interest has gone down in The Sims, though.

    To be honest, there were always factors of the game that relied on having other parts. If you didn't have Get Together, you wouldn't be able to have clubs or go to the crazy parties they throw in Windenburg to meet tons of people. Dine Out wasn't just about owning restaurants; if you didn't have Dine Out, you won't have your boyfriend asking you out for dinner. C&D is the natural evolution of that - if you don't have C&D, you might as well not buy MFT so you won't get rodent pets.

    Sims 4 has years to go yet. I might as well enjoy it while I can.
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Loanet wrote: »
    Ah, but all the coding in Cats&Dogs was completely from scratch, unlike Sims 3 pets copied from Sims 2. You can't control your pets; they control themselves. And there's no way you can compare the glorified objects of Sims 1 to Sims 4 directly.

    So go into a little more depth about how it would have been possible.

    And I always acknowledge the "I want something for free" statement, but it's not a very good argument.
    You could control pets in TS3, not so in TS2, so how’s that copying? (not familiar with pets in 2 so I might be wrong)
    5JZ57S6.png
  • SheriSim57SheriSim57 Posts: 6,934 Member
    I think the new Pets pack is cute. All stuff packs are a way to get more money. The pack brings something new, but may use tecnology from cats and dogs like the color wheel, thus must be tied to cars and dogs. I have heard many people say they want more things for cats and dogs on the forums. I think EA did nothing wrong releasing this pack. The newer stuff packs have so much more depth than the older ones. If you don’t want the stuff pack don’t buy it. But don’t get mad because others want to buy it and enjoy it.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,114 Member
    SheriSim57 wrote: »
    I think the new Pets pack is cute. All stuff packs are a way to get more money. The pack brings something new, but may use tecnology from cats and dogs like the color wheel, thus must be tied to cars and dogs. I have heard many people say they want more things for cats and dogs on the forums. I think EA did nothing wrong releasing this pack. The newer stuff packs have so much more depth than the older ones. If you don’t want the stuff pack don’t buy it. But don’t get mad because others want to buy it and enjoy it.

    Would you have enjoyed it any less had it been included in the actual Cats and Dogs expansion?
  • ManakoHimeManakoHime Posts: 285 Member
    I just can't understand why this couldn't have been an update like when we got toddlers back. I think more people might have been happier with that. It's cute and it has some nice things but I don't think I will be buying this pack anytime soon, maybe at a much later date, there really isn't anything I really want from this pack.
  • simmerbrentleysimmerbrentley Posts: 203 Member
    I've already spent $480 on Sims 4 alone. This seems like a cash-grab for simmers like me. I like having all the content I can get. Especially if it's developer made since I don't like CC. All EA wants to do is milk Maxis dry until they kill the studio off. It's extremely sad, but I can at least enjoy the game for now. It's just going to suck years down the road. I'm pretty sure this will be the last iteration of the Sims. The next Sims will probably be a pay-for-play abomination akin to their mobile app which is crap-tastic if anything else.
  • NikNakNikNak Posts: 302 Member
    Yeah, there was. They could have put it in a Pets Expansion. :)
  • LoanetLoanet Posts: 4,079 Member
    NikNak wrote: »
    Yeah, there was. They could have put it in a Pets Expansion. :)

    Heh, I know. My thought is that the GP guys weren't actually the ones who made any of what's in the Stuff Pack, just the technical coding.
    Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
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