Most of Sims 4 is a rabbit hole, really, at least in function, with only the active lot, well, active. I'm not sure I would call the warp zones on the path rabbit holes.
Well like Sims 1, 2 and 3 - so of course it also has chance cards. Sims always does. They are nothing the game hasn't always had. Are you just now noticing that? I find that hard to believe. At least this time they made it cute and even have little pictures. Bon Voyage just left us standing there as the sims took off with the tour guides - then sims came back either all injured or happy depending on how we answered their chance cards. Sims 3 even had it in regular play - at sims jobs, at kids field trips and tons of other ways. And in that case we couldn't see much of anything. At least in this one we have game play and we get to see and go with the sims. I'd say this time they are the best chance cards ever. Up there with the ones in Sims 1 Making Magic and their Sims 1 vacations that Will Wright made. Will Wright tends to like chance cards judging from many of his games.
Sims 4 does not really have rabbit hole per sec - technically . Again - these are chance cards. A rabbit hole is a space the character goes into and then comes back out of. When sims in Sims 4 goes into somewhere they come out some where else that you can explore with them - so not really a rabbithole. A rabbithole would be like Sims 3 mausuleum in the graveyard or the sims work places in Sims 3, or the tours in Bon Voyage in Sims 2. Those are rabbitholes.
(Keep in mind I love all the sims games - so I am not judging one against the other - Just telling it like it is.)
That's not true, sims 4 has rabbit holes:
School
Majority of jobs not including the active careers
Volunteering opportunities - the sims will disappear off lot to a rabbit hole
City living events like the concerts and circus- disappearing off lot to a rabbit hole
Not saying the first two aren't rabbit holes in previous games but you can't honestly call them a rabbit hole in previous games but consider them not a rabbit hole in that context in this game.
Bon voyage was different, tours yes were a rabbit hole but you had so much more to do on vacation with different community lots. You could actually go in destination and ignore the tours altogether. In JA the text rabbit holes form part of the adventure each time your sim goes to a new area. I consider it a rabbit hole as I can't see where my sim has gone. Sure it's nice to read that my sim has come across an abandoned campsite and if she gets chased by an angry camper I would rather see that! Not just get a piece of text and a picture telling me the outcome and my sim getting a moodlet. That's not game play. All I've done is the player is click a button. I don't see any of these scenarios, I just read about them and I would much prefer to play these scenarios.
No - those you listed the sims did not disappear in side of anything - they just disappeared off their lot - so those are strictly chance cards.
A rabbit hole is an actual place - like sims 3 schools, Sims 3 buildings, etc that leave you the player just standing there seeing Sims disappear and then later come out of the same place( a building or place) but you never accompany the sim - but in Sims 1 and Sims 4 it was different - like in Sims 1 your sim actually jumped in a hole and re-appeared at one of the carnivals or MM areas where you then engaged with your sims doing things - some with chance cards - some just exploring the areas. But in Sims 2 and 3 - were true rabbit holes - like being left outside the sea captains shanty and staring at the building as chance cards offer you choices for your sim - but you the player never get to accompany the sim inside the shanty, or go on the tour. You (the player) are stuck outside of a place your sims goes into in order to make choices from a chance card for the sim - with no visual reward, and not ending somewhere else like you do in Sims 1 and 4.
Sims 1 and 4 though you end up going with your sim after a single chance card - as part of the game to get to another spot or action that you engage in with your sim. In sims 1 & 4 when your sim disappears into what in Sims 2 and 3 is an actual RABBITHOLE - You never get to join the sim on the adventure - just like a rabbit going into his hole - you see it go in and you see it go out the same place it went in - and you never see the other side. In sims 4 ( like Sims 1) your sim goes in a tree, in a cave, in a forest, in a jungle gate - you the player comes out the other side with the sim whether it is meeting the hermit, seeing the grotto, getting to another spot on the jungle trail toward the temple - you do join your sim so it is not a rabbit hole. It is a door with chance cards that take you some where else. That is not a rabbit hole and as I said neither are the things you never leave the sims house for them to do - like school, jobs, zoos, circuses, opera house, - soley because they do not disappear into some place and leave you just waiting for them. Those are chance cards period - not rabbitholes.
Chance cards are in most games where there is activity - and when there is nothing visible to you like in the cases you listed - those are not rabbit holes - just chance cards. All of that IS game play - it's interractive game play - and a part of many games.
You aren’t joining the sim either in these interactive chance cards.
Do you see your sim being chased by the angry campers?
See your sim help the injured capybaras?
No
I would disagree about schools not being considered a rabbit hole. I also don’t play any other games that Use chance cards. I play a lot of games, the sims is the only one that does this. My husband is a developer for a major game company, they do not use chance cards as a substitute for game play.
If you do not see the rabbithole they disappear into - it is not a rabbithole - period. They disappear off your home lot - not a rabbithole.
Well the Gurus/reviewers all call school/volunteering/city living concerts rabbit holes. Call it what you want but it’s the same thing no matter how picky one gets over the wording. Your sim is off the lot and you can’t see them. You may be presented with a chance card. Period.
I look for gameplay reviews. I have been forced to watch lets plays to get any actual reviews of all the packs. The squeals about objects are unappealing, so that is why I do not trust those anymore and see them as fake. Most of the EA game changers reviews are purely on the look and no longer the gameplay. They "review" CAS and build/buy mode. They do not review gamelay, which informs me better about a pack. LGR reviewed the gameplay.
I do know what you mean, there are plenty of simmers who will say no wrong about the sims packs. There are also those that do speak their mind though, LGR isn't the only one.
I watch Drgluon almost every night, he streams the sims, and he is honest about what he likes and doesn't like.
I also was watching another streamer that said they understand it's a gamepack, but the rabbit hole questions still disappointed them.
Those are chance cards. Every Sims game has had chance cards.
I mean, it's excusable when they're an afterthought in a pack that has three vacation destinations, a hotel system, vacation homes, new lifestates, tons of new items and interactions, building items, etc. -- chances are you've played TS2: Bon Voyage, so I'll spare you the rest.
This is a $20 dollar game pack which is advertising itself as an adventure through a jungle, so you better believe, with a focus so narrow as that, I want to actually be adventuring a jungle. Not reading a text pick-your-own-choice adventure, because I can do that for free online.
I thought the belief was that game packs would allow them more time and development resources to fully flesh out a feature? When I see things like that, it just furthers my opinion this new business model is just EA's attempt to monetize the living plum out of this franchise.
Most of Sims 4 is a rabbit hole, really, at least in function, with only the active lot, well, active. I'm not sure I would call the warp zones on the path rabbit holes.
Well like Sims 1, 2 and 3 - so of course it also has chance cards. Sims always does. They are nothing the game hasn't always had. Are you just now noticing that? I find that hard to believe. At least this time they made it cute and even have little pictures. Bon Voyage just left us standing there as the sims took off with the tour guides - then sims came back either all injured or happy depending on how we answered their chance cards. Sims 3 even had it in regular play - at sims jobs, at kids field trips and tons of other ways. And in that case we couldn't see much of anything. At least in this one we have game play and we get to see and go with the sims. I'd say this time they are the best chance cards ever. Up there with the ones in Sims 1 Making Magic and their Sims 1 vacations that Will Wright made. Will Wright tends to like chance cards judging from many of his games.
Sims 4 does not really have rabbit hole per sec - technically . Again - these are chance cards. A rabbit hole is a space the character goes into and then comes back out of. When sims in Sims 4 goes into somewhere they come out some where else that you can explore with them - so not really a rabbithole. A rabbithole would be like Sims 3 mausuleum in the graveyard or the sims work places in Sims 3, or the tours in Bon Voyage in Sims 2. Those are rabbitholes.
(Keep in mind I love all the sims games - so I am not judging one against the other - Just telling it like it is.)
That's not true, sims 4 has rabbit holes:
School
Majority of jobs not including the active careers
Volunteering opportunities - the sims will disappear off lot to a rabbit hole
City living events like the concerts and circus- disappearing off lot to a rabbit hole
Not saying the first two aren't rabbit holes in previous games but you can't honestly call them a rabbit hole in previous games but consider them not a rabbit hole in that context in this game.
Bon voyage was different, tours yes were a rabbit hole but you had so much more to do on vacation with different community lots. You could actually go in destination and ignore the tours altogether. In JA the text rabbit holes form part of the adventure each time your sim goes to a new area. I consider it a rabbit hole as I can't see where my sim has gone. Sure it's nice to read that my sim has come across an abandoned campsite and if she gets chased by an angry camper I would rather see that! Not just get a piece of text and a picture telling me the outcome and my sim getting a moodlet. That's not game play. All I've done is the player is click a button. I don't see any of these scenarios, I just read about them and I would much prefer to play these scenarios.
No - those you listed the sims did not disappear in side of anything - they just disappeared off their lot - so those are strictly chance cards.
A rabbit hole is an actual place - like sims 3 schools, Sims 3 buildings, etc that leave you the player just standing there seeing Sims disappear and then later come out of the same place( a building or place) but you never accompany the sim - but in Sims 1 and Sims 4 it was different - like in Sims 1 your sim actually jumped in a hole and re-appeared at one of the carnivals or MM areas where you then engaged with your sims doing things - some with chance cards - some just exploring the areas. But in Sims 2 and 3 - were true rabbit holes - like being left outside the sea captains shanty and staring at the building as chance cards offer you choices for your sim - but you the player never get to accompany the sim inside the shanty, or go on the tour. You (the player) are stuck outside of a place your sims goes into in order to make choices from a chance card for the sim - with no visual reward, and not ending somewhere else like you do in Sims 1 and 4.
Sims 1 and 4 though you end up going with your sim after a single chance card - as part of the game to get to another spot or action that you engage in with your sim. In sims 1 & 4 when your sim disappears into what in Sims 2 and 3 is an actual RABBITHOLE - You never get to join the sim on the adventure - just like a rabbit going into his hole - you see it go in and you see it go out the same place it went in - and you never see the other side. In sims 4 ( like Sims 1) your sim goes in a tree, in a cave, in a forest, in a jungle gate - you the player comes out the other side with the sim whether it is meeting the hermit, seeing the grotto, getting to another spot on the jungle trail toward the temple - you do join your sim so it is not a rabbit hole. It is a door with chance cards that take you some where else. That is not a rabbit hole and as I said neither are the things you never leave the sims house for them to do - like school, jobs, zoos, circuses, opera house, - soley because they do not disappear into some place and leave you just waiting for them. Those are chance cards period - not rabbitholes.
Chance cards are in most games where there is activity - and when there is nothing visible to you like in the cases you listed - those are not rabbit holes - just chance cards. All of that IS game play - it's interractive game play - and a part of many games.
You aren’t joining the sim either in these interactive chance cards.
Do you see your sim being chased by the angry campers?
See your sim help the injured capybaras?
No
I would disagree about schools not being considered a rabbit hole. I also don’t play any other games that Use chance cards. I play a lot of games, the sims is the only one that does this. My husband is a developer for a major game company, they do not use chance cards as a substitute for game play.
If you do not see the rabbithole they disappear into - it is not a rabbithole - period. They disappear off your home lot - not a rabbithole.
I don't particularly care what the terminology is (as the poster above said as well, not even EA seems to get it consistent themselves). All I know is, the game is a closed world, so there is no reason why we should have an open world's flaws baked into this game, too.
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
Most of Sims 4 is a rabbit hole, really, at least in function, with only the active lot, well, active. I'm not sure I would call the warp zones on the path rabbit holes.
Well like Sims 1, 2 and 3 - so of course it also has chance cards. Sims always does. They are nothing the game hasn't always had. Are you just now noticing that? I find that hard to believe. At least this time they made it cute and even have little pictures. Bon Voyage just left us standing there as the sims took off with the tour guides - then sims came back either all injured or happy depending on how we answered their chance cards. Sims 3 even had it in regular play - at sims jobs, at kids field trips and tons of other ways. And in that case we couldn't see much of anything. At least in this one we have game play and we get to see and go with the sims. I'd say this time they are the best chance cards ever. Up there with the ones in Sims 1 Making Magic and their Sims 1 vacations that Will Wright made. Will Wright tends to like chance cards judging from many of his games.
Sims 4 does not really have rabbit hole per sec - technically . Again - these are chance cards. A rabbit hole is a space the character goes into and then comes back out of. When sims in Sims 4 goes into somewhere they come out some where else that you can explore with them - so not really a rabbithole. A rabbithole would be like Sims 3 mausuleum in the graveyard or the sims work places in Sims 3, or the tours in Bon Voyage in Sims 2. Those are rabbitholes.
(Keep in mind I love all the sims games - so I am not judging one against the other - Just telling it like it is.)
That's not true, sims 4 has rabbit holes:
School
Majority of jobs not including the active careers
Volunteering opportunities - the sims will disappear off lot to a rabbit hole
City living events like the concerts and circus- disappearing off lot to a rabbit hole
Not saying the first two aren't rabbit holes in previous games but you can't honestly call them a rabbit hole in previous games but consider them not a rabbit hole in that context in this game.
Bon voyage was different, tours yes were a rabbit hole but you had so much more to do on vacation with different community lots. You could actually go in destination and ignore the tours altogether. In JA the text rabbit holes form part of the adventure each time your sim goes to a new area. I consider it a rabbit hole as I can't see where my sim has gone. Sure it's nice to read that my sim has come across an abandoned campsite and if she gets chased by an angry camper I would rather see that! Not just get a piece of text and a picture telling me the outcome and my sim getting a moodlet. That's not game play. All I've done is the player is click a button. I don't see any of these scenarios, I just read about them and I would much prefer to play these scenarios.
No - those you listed the sims did not disappear in side of anything - they just disappeared off their lot - so those are strictly chance cards.
A rabbit hole is an actual place - like sims 3 schools, Sims 3 buildings, etc that leave you the player just standing there seeing Sims disappear and then later come out of the same place( a building or place) but you never accompany the sim - but in Sims 1 and Sims 4 it was different - like in Sims 1 your sim actually jumped in a hole and re-appeared at one of the carnivals or MM areas where you then engaged with your sims doing things - some with chance cards - some just exploring the areas. But in Sims 2 and 3 - were true rabbit holes - like being left outside the sea captains shanty and staring at the building as chance cards offer you choices for your sim - but you the player never get to accompany the sim inside the shanty, or go on the tour. You (the player) are stuck outside of a place your sims goes into in order to make choices from a chance card for the sim - with no visual reward, and not ending somewhere else like you do in Sims 1 and 4.
Sims 1 and 4 though you end up going with your sim after a single chance card - as part of the game to get to another spot or action that you engage in with your sim. In sims 1 & 4 when your sim disappears into what in Sims 2 and 3 is an actual RABBITHOLE - You never get to join the sim on the adventure - just like a rabbit going into his hole - you see it go in and you see it go out the same place it went in - and you never see the other side. In sims 4 ( like Sims 1) your sim goes in a tree, in a cave, in a forest, in a jungle gate - you the player comes out the other side with the sim whether it is meeting the hermit, seeing the grotto, getting to another spot on the jungle trail toward the temple - you do join your sim so it is not a rabbit hole. It is a door with chance cards that take you some where else. That is not a rabbit hole and as I said neither are the things you never leave the sims house for them to do - like school, jobs, zoos, circuses, opera house, - soley because they do not disappear into some place and leave you just waiting for them. Those are chance cards period - not rabbitholes.
Chance cards are in most games where there is activity - and when there is nothing visible to you like in the cases you listed - those are not rabbit holes - just chance cards. All of that IS game play - it's interractive game play - and a part of many games.
You aren’t joining the sim either in these interactive chance cards.
Do you see your sim being chased by the angry campers?
See your sim help the injured capybaras?
No
I would disagree about schools not being considered a rabbit hole. I also don’t play any other games that Use chance cards. I play a lot of games, the sims is the only one that does this. My husband is a developer for a major game company, they do not use chance cards as a substitute for game play.
If you do not see the rabbithole they disappear into - it is not a rabbithole - period. They disappear off your home lot - not a rabbithole.
Honestly, who cares what you call it, a sim disappears. And all versions have it. In Sims 3 at least you can control the sims that disappeared to some extent.
How did this turn in to a discussion about rabbit holes?
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
I look for gameplay reviews. I have been forced to watch lets plays to get any actual reviews of all the packs. The squeals about objects are unappealing, so that is why I do not trust those anymore and see them as fake. Most of the EA game changers reviews are purely on the look and no longer the gameplay. They "review" CAS and build/buy mode. They do not review gamelay, which informs me better about a pack. LGR reviewed the gameplay.
I do know what you mean, there are plenty of simmers who will say no wrong about the sims packs. There are also those that do speak their mind though, LGR isn't the only one.
I watch Drgluon almost every night, he streams the sims, and he is honest about what he likes and doesn't like.
I also was watching another streamer that said they understand it's a gamepack, but the rabbit hole questions still disappointed them.
Those are chance cards. Every Sims game has had chance cards.
I mean, it's excusable when they're an afterthought in a pack that has three vacation destinations, a hotel system, vacation homes, new lifestates, tons of new items and interactions, building items, etc. -- chances are you've played TS2: Bon Voyage, so I'll spare you the rest.
This is a $20 dollar game pack which is advertising itself as an adventure through a jungle, so you better believe, with a focus so narrow as that, I want to actually be adventuring a jungle. Not reading a text pick-your-own-choice adventure, because I can do that for free online.
I thought the belief was that game packs would allow them more time and development resources to fully flesh out a feature? When I see things like that, it just furthers my opinion this new business model is just EA's attempt to monetize the living plum out of this franchise.
I don't neccesarily take issue with the text-based adventures. My concern just from watching videos is just how long the actual adventuring takes. I clocked someone analyzing a relic and it took one in-game hour. Thing is they have to dig it out of the dirt, they have to get it out of the dirt clump, and then they have to analyze it. Sounds like three hours per thing at a minimum, and all of that is time you're sitting there doing nothing. (and yeah, incidentally that person playing was interacting with the stream and largely ignoring the game while the sim analyzed stuff)
All Sims games have moments where you want a Sim to learn a skill, and you sit there waiting for a bar to fill. However, 1) This seems to be the bulk of the pack's entire experience, and 2) Sims 4 has such a terrible history with Speed x3 that to this day I would not dare to use it. I have no idea if Speed x3 has been properly fixed, I've heard no confirmation of it being fixed, and it's jeoprodizing the stability of an entire save file to even try.
My issues with this pack are:
1) The time spent doing basic actions is absolutely obscene. Why did they make it take so long to do actions that players are expected to do repeatedly for the pack?
2) The outcomes are all luck-based. I loathe fishing in Sims 4 because the baits aren't effective enough. In Sims 3 if I want a deathfish I just need to use an angelfish. In Sims 4 it tells you "USE A SMALL FISH" and omg half the fish population uses small fish as bait so it doesn't matter anyways. Those traps in the temples likewise look luck-based. When I realized some traps are absolute decoys with no function beyond potentially forcing a fail....where's the thought here? It doesn't even seem like the player can plan or try to mitigate failures in any way. I was hoping for skill-based outcomes and that seems to exist to a degree, but it also seems like a certain chunk of the puzzles remains luck-based. The result is you're motivated to examine everything first (which exaggerates the first issue above), you still might fail, and even then you have to question what does any of it matter? The punishments are moodlets too, so the entire thing just feels like a trivial waste of time. I have no idea why the pack's content seems designed to waste time.
3) The locations being blocked off. I'm sure most of us assumed there were at least two temple entrances and the five layouts occurred in seperate ones. Instead, it seems like the locked off locations are....kinda pointless? The ones I've seen explored were tiny and had zero purpose. They were just....there. To see such a disappointing location and then realized they lock off access to half of them for no reason....why?? I'm a crazy-curious person, and I'm dying to know how they felt this enhances the gameplay. It honestly feels like the decision was made to give the illusion of more content, since if your first trip is disappointing or you only watch one stream and feel disappointed, you can always tell yourself "maybe the other paths are better." They're not and they all seem pointless. Even the temple itself seems to be limited to once per day, and I have to ask why. When I see people play, they do the temple and then spend the rest of the time watching their sim hit a rock with a hammer OR socializing in town. Neither seem really exciting. I wonder if the next point ties into this in regards to the temple....
4) The cash rewards. This one has me wondering if it's a reason they lock off the temple periodically, though again this is a strange design choice. The cash rewards seem absolutely obscene. Explore a temple? He's a minimum of ten thousand dollars. I heard and expected the cash rewards might be high, but holy crap. This seems downright unbalanced. However, if this is the reason for locking off the temple, why not just drop the reward values accordingly in order to allow temple access more frequently? Locking off the temple just seems to encourage wait time. Nobody likes just waiting around and some people (me) hate when cash rewards are too high. What on earth is the motivation for making players spend more time sitting around in exchange for more expensive rewards?
The entire balance and design of the core interactions just seems so backwards it's downright confusing. I legitimately question if the interactions are designed to take ages and the locations are blocked off all with the purpose of drawing the experience out and making it seem bigger. I don't suspect that as a default, but rather I simply cannot think of any other rational motivations for the pack interactions being such a time sink. Surely they playtested it and realized watching a sim hit a rock with a hammer for one hour every time you want to do something isn't fun, and yet here we are. These interactions honestly feel like they take 5-10 times as long as the interactions from World Adventures, and I cannot possibly fathom why they chose to do this.
All I can say is that if playing it is as boring as watching it is, then I honestly question if Outdoor Retreat is actually better, solely on the grounds that Outdoor Retreat at least holds your attention by making you scan the forest floor for plants and insects, not reducing the entire experience into a one hour luck-based interaction by the sims.
I had some degree of hope for this pack, so it's very disappointing to see it looking so dull. I remember the first comment I made about it was that the teaser had me concerned the skeletons weren't a threat, but rather "LOL that skeleton just told me a joke #WeirderStories #BlameSteve," and holy crap I was spot on. I can look past the goofy tone of the skeletons if the rest of the experience seems worthwhile, but now knowing the rewards and seeing how boring the gameplay looks, I'm just left with disappointment and a sense of awe that there were so many bad decisions made regarding time management.
I think its funny that LGR's fans say that he keeps it honest, but when someone keeps it honest about him, its a problem
No it’s not? Why would that be a problem?
At least you've come back to the thread topic. They are entitled to their opinion and don't have to be drawn into a yes/no argument. That leads to bullying in my own opinion.
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
Yeah, the problem with using objective that way is people tend to take it meaning he has no opinion -- he does, and he expresses it in an entertaining way. What he doesn't have is a bias towards making sure he keeps his free stuff coming. And frankly, EA by dropping him from the free-stuff program also sent a clear message to other reviewers. Keep it positive.
Really, they're paid well. Not only in free games, but aren't there boot camps as well that they get sent to as well that EA pays for? Or am I wrong about that and it was a one-off thing?
How did this turn in to a discussion about rabbit holes?
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
It's a discussion about rabbit holes because a good segment of LGR's review covered the text-based adventures.
In Sims 3, we had rabbitholes because the open world was incredibly resource demanding, not only for EA, but for our computers, too. Sims 3 does have restaurants as store content, but, IMHO, they're not as good as TS1, TS2, or TS4's. Sims 4 spent a $20 dollar game pack aiming to flesh out restaurants, and it did alright, but even with the closed world, the horrible simulation lag TS4 possesses causes restaurants to be an all-day affair. It's gotten so horrible that it's content I don't even use because it consumes a whole day due to lag alone.
I love when people try to defend a 2018 release by bringing up an expansion pack released in 2007 for a 2004 base game. Yes, we had chance cards in the form of tours in TS2: Bon Voyage. However, the expansion pack came with a humongous amount of content with such a wide range of focus, that those tours were just a little fun side feature. Chance cards in Jungle Adventure are part of the core gameplay of a $20 dollar pack which focuses entirely on one destination, doing one thing. Not very exciting, at least to me.
I much prefer to explore the game with my Sim, as well. But I do think there could have been far more depth and design put into the jungle compared to relying on text-based adventures. Even in the temple, I would have far preferred actually solving a puzzle myself through my Sim, rather than sit in my chair, watch them write on a notepad, and then click an interaction after a few seconds. Boring.
How did this turn in to a discussion about rabbit holes?
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
It's a discussion about rabbit holes because a good segment of LGR's review covered the text-based adventures.
In Sims 3, we had rabbitholes because the open world was incredibly resource demanding, not only for EA, but for our computers, too. Sims 3 does have restaurants as store content, but, IMHO, they're not as good as TS1, TS2, or TS4's. Sims 4 spent a $20 dollar game pack aiming to flesh out restaurants, and it did alright, but even with the closed world, the horrible simulation lag TS4 possesses causes restaurants to be an all-day affair. It's gotten so horrible that it's content I don't even use because it consumes a whole day due to lag alone.
I love when people try to defend a 2018 release by bringing up an expansion pack released in 2007 for a 2004 base game. Yes, we had chance cards in the form of tours in TS2: Bon Voyage. However, the expansion pack came with a humongous amount of content with such a wide range of focus, that those tours were just a little fun side feature. Chance cards in Jungle Adventure are part of the core gameplay of a $20 dollar pack which focuses entirely on one destination, doing one thing. Not very exciting, at least to me.
I much prefer to explore the game with my Sim, as well. But I do think there could have been far more depth and design put into the jungle compared to relying on text-based adventures. Even in the temple, I would have far preferred actually solving a puzzle myself through my Sim, rather than sit in my chair, watch them write on a notepad, and then click an interaction after a few seconds. Boring.
I don't have any problems going to restaurants, such as lag and things like that. It's not an all day ordeal for me, I don't really know what you're talking about.
I look for gameplay reviews. I have been forced to watch lets plays to get any actual reviews of all the packs. The squeals about objects are unappealing, so that is why I do not trust those anymore and see them as fake. Most of the EA game changers reviews are purely on the look and no longer the gameplay. They "review" CAS and build/buy mode. They do not review gamelay, which informs me better about a pack. LGR reviewed the gameplay.
I do know what you mean, there are plenty of simmers who will say no wrong about the sims packs. There are also those that do speak their mind though, LGR isn't the only one.
I watch Drgluon almost every night, he streams the sims, and he is honest about what he likes and doesn't like.
I also was watching another streamer that said they understand it's a gamepack, but the rabbit hole questions still disappointed them.
Those are chance cards. Every Sims game has had chance cards.
I mean, it's excusable when they're an afterthought in a pack that has three vacation destinations, a hotel system, vacation homes, new lifestates, tons of new items and interactions, building items, etc. -- chances are you've played TS2: Bon Voyage, so I'll spare you the rest.
This is a $20 dollar game pack which is advertising itself as an adventure through a jungle, so you better believe, with a focus so narrow as that, I want to actually be adventuring a jungle. Not reading a text pick-your-own-choice adventure, because I can do that for free online.
I thought the belief was that game packs would allow them more time and development resources to fully flesh out a feature? When I see things like that, it just furthers my opinion this new business model is just EA's attempt to monetize the living plum out of this franchise.
I don't neccesarily take issue with the text-based adventures. My concern just from watching videos is just how long the actual adventuring takes. I clocked someone analyzing a relic and it took one in-game hour. Thing is they have to dig it out of the dirt, they have to get it out of the dirt clump, and then they have to analyze it. Sounds like three hours per thing at a minimum, and all of that is time you're sitting there doing nothing. (and yeah, incidentally that person playing was interacting with the stream and largely ignoring the game while the sim analyzed stuff)
All Sims games have moments where you want a Sim to learn a skill, and you sit there waiting for a bar to fill. However, 1) This seems to be the bulk of the pack's entire experience, and 2) Sims 4 has such a terrible history with Speed x3 that to this day I would not dare to use it. I have no idea if Speed x3 has been properly fixed, I've heard no confirmation of it being fixed, and it's jeoprodizing the stability of an entire save file to even try.
My issues with this pack are:
1) The time spent doing basic actions is absolutely obscene. Why did they make it take so long to do actions that players are expected to do repeatedly for the pack?
2) The outcomes are all luck-based. I loathe fishing in Sims 4 because the baits aren't effective enough. In Sims 3 if I want a deathfish I just need to use an angelfish. In Sims 4 it tells you "USE A SMALL FISH" and omg half the fish population uses small fish as bait so it doesn't matter anyways. Those traps in the temples likewise look luck-based. When I realized some traps are absolute decoys with no function beyond potentially forcing a fail....where's the thought here? It doesn't even seem like the player can plan or try to mitigate failures in any way. I was hoping for skill-based outcomes and that seems to exist to a degree, but it also seems like a certain chunk of the puzzles remains luck-based. The result is you're motivated to examine everything first (which exaggerates the first issue above), you still might fail, and even then you have to question what does any of it matter? The punishments are moodlets too, so the entire thing just feels like a trivial waste of time. I have no idea why the pack's content seems designed to waste time.
3) The locations being blocked off. I'm sure most of us assumed there were at least two temple entrances and the five layouts occurred in seperate ones. Instead, it seems like the locked off locations are....kinda pointless? The ones I've seen explored were tiny and had zero purpose. They were just....there. To see such a disappointing location and then realized they lock off access to half of them for no reason....why?? I'm a crazy-curious person, and I'm dying to know how they felt this enhances the gameplay. It honestly feels like the decision was made to give the illusion of more content, since if your first trip is disappointing or you only watch one stream and feel disappointed, you can always tell yourself "maybe the other paths are better." They're not and they all seem pointless. Even the temple itself seems to be limited to once per day, and I have to ask why. When I see people play, they do the temple and then spend the rest of the time watching their sim hit a rock with a hammer OR socializing in town. Neither seem really exciting. I wonder if the next point ties into this in regards to the temple....
4) The cash rewards. This one has me wondering if it's a reason they lock off the temple periodically, though again this is a strange design choice. The cash rewards seem absolutely obscene. Explore a temple? He's a minimum of ten thousand dollars. I heard and expected the cash rewards might be high, but holy plum. This seems downright unbalanced. However, if this is the reason for locking off the temple, why not just drop the reward values accordingly in order to allow temple access more frequently? Locking off the temple just seems to encourage wait time. Nobody likes just waiting around and some people (me) hate when cash rewards are too high. What on earth is the motivation for making players spend more time sitting around in exchange for more expensive rewards?
The entire balance and design of the core interactions just seems so backwards it's downright confusing. I legitimately question if the interactions are designed to take ages and the locations are blocked off all with the purpose of drawing the experience out and making it seem bigger. I don't suspect that as a default, but rather I simply cannot think of any other rational motivations for the pack interactions being such a time sink. Surely they playtested it and realized watching a sim hit a rock with a hammer for one hour every time you want to do something isn't fun, and yet here we are. These interactions honestly feel like they take 5-10 times as long as the interactions from World Adventures, and I cannot possibly fathom why they chose to do this.
All I can say is that if playing it is as boring as watching it is, then I honestly question if Outdoor Retreat is actually better, solely on the grounds that Outdoor Retreat at least holds your attention by making you scan the forest floor for plants and insects, not reducing the entire experience into a one hour luck-based interaction by the sims.
I had some degree of hope for this pack, so it's very disappointing to see it looking so dull. I remember the first comment I made about it was that the teaser had me concerned the skeletons weren't a threat, but rather "LOL that skeleton just told me a joke #WeirderStories #BlameSteve," and holy plum I was spot on. I can look past the goofy tone of the skeletons if the rest of the experience seems worthwhile, but now knowing the rewards and seeing how boring the gameplay looks, I'm just left with disappointment and a sense of awe that there were so many bad decisions made regarding time management.
Very nice post. I am glad I did not spend my money on this pack, especially with so many other exciting company releases.
The time length of interactions does indeed sound long, and I'd imagine only with the simulation lag still infesting this game makes it longer.
The development team of The Sims 4 has frequently lacked good game design. The huge appeal of The Sims to me was the simulation/strategy design that The Sims 2 did amazingly well with for its time. There was a sense of risk and challenge frequently in the game, and I often had to plan out how the day would go to ensure my Sims would have productive, successful days ahead.
In The Sims 4, all of that goes out of the window. The game mechanics it offers (emotions, aspirations, whims, collecting, etc.) feel useless to the core, and a horrible chore after the first go (sometimes even during the first go). The game just doesn't feel like a game anymore.
When they try to make packs like Jungle Adventure, its often unbalanced, just as you said. Either the pack is too rewarding, or not rewarding enough. The means of attaining the reward (in this case, relics and whatnot) is often boring. As we see in the temples, there are no real puzzles to be found. It's basically the doctor/vet career recycled -- you are clicking around for clues, and trying to figure out which is the right interaction to click. But in the interim of that, you are simply watching your Sim take notes. How is that fun??
I look for gameplay reviews. I have been forced to watch lets plays to get any actual reviews of all the packs. The squeals about objects are unappealing, so that is why I do not trust those anymore and see them as fake. Most of the EA game changers reviews are purely on the look and no longer the gameplay. They "review" CAS and build/buy mode. They do not review gamelay, which informs me better about a pack. LGR reviewed the gameplay.
I do know what you mean, there are plenty of simmers who will say no wrong about the sims packs. There are also those that do speak their mind though, LGR isn't the only one.
I watch Drgluon almost every night, he streams the sims, and he is honest about what he likes and doesn't like.
I also was watching another streamer that said they understand it's a gamepack, but the rabbit hole questions still disappointed them.
Those are chance cards. Every Sims game has had chance cards.
I mean, it's excusable when they're an afterthought in a pack that has three vacation destinations, a hotel system, vacation homes, new lifestates, tons of new items and interactions, building items, etc. -- chances are you've played TS2: Bon Voyage, so I'll spare you the rest.
This is a $20 dollar game pack which is advertising itself as an adventure through a jungle, so you better believe, with a focus so narrow as that, I want to actually be adventuring a jungle. Not reading a text pick-your-own-choice adventure, because I can do that for free online.
I thought the belief was that game packs would allow them more time and development resources to fully flesh out a feature? When I see things like that, it just furthers my opinion this new business model is just EA's attempt to monetize the living plum out of this franchise.
I don't neccesarily take issue with the text-based adventures. My concern just from watching videos is just how long the actual adventuring takes. I clocked someone analyzing a relic and it took one in-game hour. Thing is they have to dig it out of the dirt, they have to get it out of the dirt clump, and then they have to analyze it. Sounds like three hours per thing at a minimum, and all of that is time you're sitting there doing nothing. (and yeah, incidentally that person playing was interacting with the stream and largely ignoring the game while the sim analyzed stuff)
All Sims games have moments where you want a Sim to learn a skill, and you sit there waiting for a bar to fill. However, 1) This seems to be the bulk of the pack's entire experience, and 2) Sims 4 has such a terrible history with Speed x3 that to this day I would not dare to use it. I have no idea if Speed x3 has been properly fixed, I've heard no confirmation of it being fixed, and it's jeoprodizing the stability of an entire save file to even try.
My issues with this pack are:
1) The time spent doing basic actions is absolutely obscene. Why did they make it take so long to do actions that players are expected to do repeatedly for the pack?
2) The outcomes are all luck-based. I loathe fishing in Sims 4 because the baits aren't effective enough. In Sims 3 if I want a deathfish I just need to use an angelfish. In Sims 4 it tells you "USE A SMALL FISH" and omg half the fish population uses small fish as bait so it doesn't matter anyways. Those traps in the temples likewise look luck-based. When I realized some traps are absolute decoys with no function beyond potentially forcing a fail....where's the thought here? It doesn't even seem like the player can plan or try to mitigate failures in any way. I was hoping for skill-based outcomes and that seems to exist to a degree, but it also seems like a certain chunk of the puzzles remains luck-based. The result is you're motivated to examine everything first (which exaggerates the first issue above), you still might fail, and even then you have to question what does any of it matter? The punishments are moodlets too, so the entire thing just feels like a trivial waste of time. I have no idea why the pack's content seems designed to waste time.
3) The locations being blocked off. I'm sure most of us assumed there were at least two temple entrances and the five layouts occurred in seperate ones. Instead, it seems like the locked off locations are....kinda pointless? The ones I've seen explored were tiny and had zero purpose. They were just....there. To see such a disappointing location and then realized they lock off access to half of them for no reason....why?? I'm a crazy-curious person, and I'm dying to know how they felt this enhances the gameplay. It honestly feels like the decision was made to give the illusion of more content, since if your first trip is disappointing or you only watch one stream and feel disappointed, you can always tell yourself "maybe the other paths are better." They're not and they all seem pointless. Even the temple itself seems to be limited to once per day, and I have to ask why. When I see people play, they do the temple and then spend the rest of the time watching their sim hit a rock with a hammer OR socializing in town. Neither seem really exciting. I wonder if the next point ties into this in regards to the temple....
4) The cash rewards. This one has me wondering if it's a reason they lock off the temple periodically, though again this is a strange design choice. The cash rewards seem absolutely obscene. Explore a temple? He's a minimum of ten thousand dollars. I heard and expected the cash rewards might be high, but holy plum. This seems downright unbalanced. However, if this is the reason for locking off the temple, why not just drop the reward values accordingly in order to allow temple access more frequently? Locking off the temple just seems to encourage wait time. Nobody likes just waiting around and some people (me) hate when cash rewards are too high. What on earth is the motivation for making players spend more time sitting around in exchange for more expensive rewards?
The entire balance and design of the core interactions just seems so backwards it's downright confusing. I legitimately question if the interactions are designed to take ages and the locations are blocked off all with the purpose of drawing the experience out and making it seem bigger. I don't suspect that as a default, but rather I simply cannot think of any other rational motivations for the pack interactions being such a time sink. Surely they playtested it and realized watching a sim hit a rock with a hammer for one hour every time you want to do something isn't fun, and yet here we are. These interactions honestly feel like they take 5-10 times as long as the interactions from World Adventures, and I cannot possibly fathom why they chose to do this.
All I can say is that if playing it is as boring as watching it is, then I honestly question if Outdoor Retreat is actually better, solely on the grounds that Outdoor Retreat at least holds your attention by making you scan the forest floor for plants and insects, not reducing the entire experience into a one hour luck-based interaction by the sims.
I had some degree of hope for this pack, so it's very disappointing to see it looking so dull. I remember the first comment I made about it was that the teaser had me concerned the skeletons weren't a threat, but rather "LOL that skeleton just told me a joke #WeirderStories #BlameSteve," and holy plum I was spot on. I can look past the goofy tone of the skeletons if the rest of the experience seems worthwhile, but now knowing the rewards and seeing how boring the gameplay looks, I'm just left with disappointment and a sense of awe that there were so many bad decisions made regarding time management.
I think the excessive time is designed to draw the experience out, purposefully so the player has to go back and do it again. Believe me, personally I think it is boring. I don’t want to watch my sim dig for several sim hours. Why does everything in this game take an excessive amount of time? This is the first game pack I regret buying.
How did this turn in to a discussion about rabbit holes?
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
It's a discussion about rabbit holes because a good segment of LGR's review covered the text-based adventures.
In Sims 3, we had rabbitholes because the open world was incredibly resource demanding, not only for EA, but for our computers, too. Sims 3 does have restaurants as store content, but, IMHO, they're not as good as TS1, TS2, or TS4's. Sims 4 spent a $20 dollar game pack aiming to flesh out restaurants, and it did alright, but even with the closed world, the horrible simulation lag TS4 possesses causes restaurants to be an all-day affair. It's gotten so horrible that it's content I don't even use because it consumes a whole day due to lag alone.
I love when people try to defend a 2018 release by bringing up an expansion pack released in 2007 for a 2004 base game. Yes, we had chance cards in the form of tours in TS2: Bon Voyage. However, the expansion pack came with a humongous amount of content with such a wide range of focus, that those tours were just a little fun side feature. Chance cards in Jungle Adventure are part of the core gameplay of a $20 dollar pack which focuses entirely on one destination, doing one thing. Not very exciting, at least to me.
I much prefer to explore the game with my Sim, as well. But I do think there could have been far more depth and design put into the jungle compared to relying on text-based adventures. Even in the temple, I would have far preferred actually solving a puzzle myself through my Sim, rather than sit in my chair, watch them write on a notepad, and then click an interaction after a few seconds. Boring.
I don't have any problems going to restaurants, such as lag and things like that. It's not an all day ordeal for me, I don't really know what you're talking about.
Considar yourself lucky then, because for many (most?) It takes 8 sim hours or more. If you leave at 9am for breakfast, play it safe and just order lunch.... Because itll be waaay past breakfast by the time you get your food. Then eating while talking always takes forever. And god forbid your server drops your food....
And if i can speak on simulation lag..... I barely have it since the devs patch and since getting a new laptop for Christmas. The night time ultra speed works fine. It will lag a little during parties and if i invite more than 16 people to my sims house, but not as bad as it used to be. And trust me.... I was very very upset with the lag and freezing and time distortion, all of it was terrible. But i think/hope that is behind us.
How did this turn in to a discussion about rabbit holes?
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
It's a discussion about rabbit holes because a good segment of LGR's review covered the text-based adventures.
In Sims 3, we had rabbitholes because the open world was incredibly resource demanding, not only for EA, but for our computers, too. Sims 3 does have restaurants as store content, but, IMHO, they're not as good as TS1, TS2, or TS4's. Sims 4 spent a $20 dollar game pack aiming to flesh out restaurants, and it did alright, but even with the closed world, the horrible simulation lag TS4 possesses causes restaurants to be an all-day affair. It's gotten so horrible that it's content I don't even use because it consumes a whole day due to lag alone.
I love when people try to defend a 2018 release by bringing up an expansion pack released in 2007 for a 2004 base game. Yes, we had chance cards in the form of tours in TS2: Bon Voyage. However, the expansion pack came with a humongous amount of content with such a wide range of focus, that those tours were just a little fun side feature. Chance cards in Jungle Adventure are part of the core gameplay of a $20 dollar pack which focuses entirely on one destination, doing one thing. Not very exciting, at least to me.
I much prefer to explore the game with my Sim, as well. But I do think there could have been far more depth and design put into the jungle compared to relying on text-based adventures. Even in the temple, I would have far preferred actually solving a puzzle myself through my Sim, rather than sit in my chair, watch them write on a notepad, and then click an interaction after a few seconds. Boring.
I don't have any problems going to restaurants, such as lag and things like that. It's not an all day ordeal for me, I don't really know what you're talking about.
Well then, I’m envious of you, as it takes roughly a good hour for my Sims to both be seated after playing some musical chairs, 3-6 hours for my Sim to get their meal they ordered, and another 2-3 hours to eat. If they get into an involuntary group chat with other dining Sims, that number goes up even more. So what should be a nice morning meal at the diner does not get finished until the evening.
It’s absolutely nothing like that with The Sims 2. It’s quick, but not too quick, and I have awesome dining interactions that TS4 lacked to put in a game pack surrounded all around dining out (as compared to TS2 having restaurants as a side feature of a downtown/city pack!) At least TS4 Sims can draw a picture while waiting for their food?
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
Yeah, the problem with using objective that way is people tend to take it meaning he has no opinion -- he does, and he expresses it in an entertaining way. What he doesn't have is a bias towards making sure he keeps his free stuff coming. And frankly, EA by dropping him from the free-stuff program also sent a clear message to other reviewers. Keep it positive.
Really, they're paid well. Not only in free games, but aren't there boot camps as well that they get sent to as well that EA pays for? Or am I wrong about that and it was a one-off thing?
Yes, a strategy I can’t really get my head around by the way. Because it underlines the hunch people have anyway the privileged are biased. EA makes sure not only those influencers realize they better be or else, but on top of that the whole fanbase and the rest of the world can witness it.
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
Yeah, the problem with using objective that way is people tend to take it meaning he has no opinion -- he does, and he expresses it in an entertaining way. What he doesn't have is a bias towards making sure he keeps his free stuff coming. And frankly, EA by dropping him from the free-stuff program also sent a clear message to other reviewers. Keep it positive.
Really, they're paid well. Not only in free games, but aren't there boot camps as well that they get sent to as well that EA pays for? Or am I wrong about that and it was a one-off thing?
Yes, a strategy I can’t really get my head around by the way. Because it underlines the hunch people have anyway the privileged are biased. EA makes sure not only those influencers realize they better be or else, but on top of that the whole fanbase and the rest of the world can witness it.
Remember LGR was never an influencer/game changer. They sent him free copies. But he refused to be part of of the program. The game changer program means you can be selected to go to sims camp which is a yearly event and sometimes other events/meetings. (Some of them have been to California very recently for meetings)
They did stop sending him free copies which does say they prefer postivity.
How did this turn in to a discussion about rabbit holes?
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
It's a discussion about rabbit holes because a good segment of LGR's review covered the text-based adventures.
In Sims 3, we had rabbitholes because the open world was incredibly resource demanding, not only for EA, but for our computers, too. Sims 3 does have restaurants as store content, but, IMHO, they're not as good as TS1, TS2, or TS4's. Sims 4 spent a $20 dollar game pack aiming to flesh out restaurants, and it did alright, but even with the closed world, the horrible simulation lag TS4 possesses causes restaurants to be an all-day affair. It's gotten so horrible that it's content I don't even use because it consumes a whole day due to lag alone.
I love when people try to defend a 2018 release by bringing up an expansion pack released in 2007 for a 2004 base game. Yes, we had chance cards in the form of tours in TS2: Bon Voyage. However, the expansion pack came with a humongous amount of content with such a wide range of focus, that those tours were just a little fun side feature. Chance cards in Jungle Adventure are part of the core gameplay of a $20 dollar pack which focuses entirely on one destination, doing one thing. Not very exciting, at least to me.
I much prefer to explore the game with my Sim, as well. But I do think there could have been far more depth and design put into the jungle compared to relying on text-based adventures. Even in the temple, I would have far preferred actually solving a puzzle myself through my Sim, rather than sit in my chair, watch them write on a notepad, and then click an interaction after a few seconds. Boring.
I don't have any problems going to restaurants, such as lag and things like that. It's not an all day ordeal for me, I don't really know what you're talking about.
This is one of those things I refuse to believe until I uncover video evidence of someone flawlessly eating at a restaurant in under 5 hours. Whether you experience it or not, it's clear this is a game issue and it's frequent enough to not be a user issue, as it affects an unacceptable quota of people.Issues like this need to be addressed, lest they pop up again in future packs. After all, they seem to love recycling content and systems.
I once attempted to complete the collection for experimental foods, and the problem was basically both that the wait staff/cook did not move as efficiently as they could for some reason, and then your sim spends more time oooh'ing and aaah'ing at the plate rather than actually eating it. I think I was even fascinated once because by the time my Sim finished their meal, their hunger need wasn't even maxed out because they took so long to eat it. I explicitly remember having that Sim take vacation days off work just to eat, and often returning home dead tired.
This is a serious problem moving forward too. Jungle Adventures recycles food stalls, merchant tables and many of the core gameplay elements for the puzzles. In it's case, it's just a bit boring to see the same things used over and over. Other cases though, such as the vet career, they readily recycle features that have been broken since their creation. Go look up feedback for Get To Work's Retail, Dine Out and the vet career, and not a single one runs perfectly smooth and not a single one is without serious issues. Dine Out is probably the best of the three since it's flaws are ignorable with random customers just not being served, but Vet and Get To Work both suffer from reports of employees simply not doing anything. They seem eager to recycle content though even IF the content doesn't work.
And I find it absolutely concerning to see packs like Jungle Adventures release and despite the amounts of recycled content, the pack still looks like a dud. If they're recycling content to conserve time to use on other new features, an argument can be made it's worth it. Here though, I have no idea what their focus went into. It seems to be the world itself and the build mode objects, but then I have to wonder how that could be since Vampires also did a great job at providing nice build mode objects and didn't suffer in quality for it. I cannot tell if there's poor planning going on or just a feeling of apathy about the pack by the development team.
Random tangent too, but another thing I find concerning is how animations seem to be getting worse. I happened to see that the laundry pack has a "frame drop" when Sims do laundry. Initially I thought this was a stream issue, but it seems Sims consistently have a poor-quality animation when interacting with laundry machines. I've seen a similar thing now occur when players try to assemble totems. (or use them? I forget) Why are the animations losing quality? Does this game just have a budget of absolute zero? It's very strange too because the new dance animations actually look good and fleshed out. It's rare they provide new animations (presumably due to cost) so on one hand seeing the dance is surprising, but then it's paired with more choppy animations and I sit here wondering what's going on at Maxis.
I digress though, that's a lot of tangents I just went off on. My point is we cannot just sweep past issues under the rug and pretend they don't exist. When we do that, they absolutely resurface. Get To Work's Retail was non-functional, and yes Dine Out and Vet career have similar issues. Laundry day had choppy animations, now Jungle Adventure does too. City Living sold despite recycling base game content and providing minimal new content like food stalls and market tables, lo and behold Pets and Jungle Adventure recycle those to pad their content count as well.
We should not be focusing on the moments when things do work. We should be focusing on when they don't. If you're trying to land a person on Mars and one of your two spaceship launches crashes and burns, you don't sit and dwell on the one that worked, you try to figure out why the other one failed. Focusing on the success doesn't solve the problem, focusing on the failure helps pinpoint the problem. As such - no offense intended - but I don't see the value in saying "my game works fine" when it's clean a non-insignificant amount of the population doesn't have your great fortune.
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
Yeah, the problem with using objective that way is people tend to take it meaning he has no opinion -- he does, and he expresses it in an entertaining way. What he doesn't have is a bias towards making sure he keeps his free stuff coming. And frankly, EA by dropping him from the free-stuff program also sent a clear message to other reviewers. Keep it positive.
Really, they're paid well. Not only in free games, but aren't there boot camps as well that they get sent to as well that EA pays for? Or am I wrong about that and it was a one-off thing?
Yes, a strategy I can’t really get my head around by the way. Because it underlines the hunch people have anyway the privileged are biased. EA makes sure not only those influencers realize they better be or else, but on top of that the whole fanbase and the rest of the world can witness it.
Remember LGR was never an influencer/game changer. They sent him free copies. But he refused to be part of of the program. The game changer program means you can be selected to go to sims camp which is a yearly event and sometimes other events/meetings. (Some of them have been to California very recently for meetings)
They did stop sending him free copies which does say they prefer postivity.
Yeah, you're right -- he wasn't a part of their influencer program, he just got a few free games. And that's what I thought, that they give free trips to their reviewers along with sneak previews even before review copies are ready. And that's on top of what they make for their videos, which they get paid, provided they have advertisers, CPM (clicks per thousand), which can be in and of itself pretty decent pay. One of my kids does youtube videos, and even with just a few over 100k subscribers, he gets a decent amount for the videos he releases.
Really, the only Sims reviewer I watch is LGR, and that's because he doesn't squee. I get an overview of what's in the pack, and that's really all I want. Given that I own ever single Sims pack, obviously he's not scaring me off. But he's funny, and I don't take what he doesn't like as a personal insult.
This is what the sims team thrives on; making packs seem so cool and glorious at first, but then for actual extended sims gameplay they all fall so flat. Notice they were very careful what to show us in those live gameplays of the jungle; because once you actually play all the way through the game is just not worth it.
Everyone knows this game pack harkens back to the world adventures of sims 3. New games should always be an improvement. So to make jungle adventure a game pack instead of an expansion pack is a horrible business decision; to choose to make this a game pack, when they knew that most people would be comparing this to world adventures, and some to sims 2 bon voyage. This to me is just more proof of how horribly they are doing. You can have all the data on the internet that you want, but the proof is in what they delivery. This is awful. They have such talented people on the team and they could be doing leaps and bounds better than what we see in sims 4.
You agreeing with someone's opinion is not the same as them being the only "honest" reviewer. As if, when it comes to taste, there's only one single true answer (and that just happens to be the one you agree with xD). I don't understand why it is so hard for some simmers to understand that there are people who actually enjoy this game for what it is. And that not all the reviewers you disagree with are "fake" (even if, yes, EA, and pretty much any other company in the world, is more likely to work with YouTubers that like their products since these are "mutually promotional" relationships if you will). These reviewers just have a different view of the game than you do. And I think you underestimate their intelligence when you think they never point out the things they don't like. All that being said, why can we never get an LGR review and accept it for what it is: a review. Not a reason to attack other people or calling them fake or wrong or stupid (for liking or for not liking one man's review). And yes, I do like them, but these responses are kinda annoying anyway.
It's no secret that there are plenty of sims "reviews" who are payed to give a positive review. They just don't necessarily say it. Many simmers respect this guy because he is one who is honest in the regard that he hasn't accepted bribes/support in exchange for good reviews.
This is what the sims team thrives on; making packs seem so cool and glorious at first, but then for actual extended sims gameplay they all fall so flat. Notice they were very careful what to show us in those live gameplays of the jungle; because once you actually play all the way through the game is just not worth it.
I don't know if that's true or not. I still go to GF even though it was released in 2015. And I still use DO every time I play the game. I can see how JA has more replayability than even GF though.
What I don't find replayable though, is the festivals or much of anything to do with city living. Or cats and dogs.
Sims 4 game packs are showing up the expansion packs by a long mile.
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
But by definition, nobody can be "objective" for a review. Because they use their own personal bias to make the review. Maybe they aren't influenced by others, which is what I think you mean, but it's not "objective."
Objective would be: "There are 125 new objects in the pack, and 22 new CAS items."
Subjective: (which any real review is): "There are 125 new objects in the pack, and 22 new CAS items. Since the gameplay offered by these objects isn't that fleshed out, I don't think the pack is worth the money".
There is no true objectivity in any of LGR's reviews - because there is no objectivity in ANY review, unless all one did was state the facts, which defeats the purpose of a review.
LGR got a few packs free; however, it didn't change his tone, and so it didn't last very long. I think the word people are looking for is not objective (his reviews, like everyone else's, are subjective) but he doesn't have the bias that a reviewer who wants to keep getting their rewards has. In fact, LGR being dropped from the free-game program so quickly shows that his brand of honesty is not appreciated.
It's weird because he reviews are never "all negative." He has issues with the game play of Sims 4, but he does try to point out what he likes, what he doesn't like, the stuff from CAS, and he will say what he thinks is good within the limitations of the game engine.
Edit: Huge typo.
Is, in fact: objective. Objective in the meaning (looked that up) “undistorted by emotion or personal bias; based on observable phenomena”. That is exactly what he does. Which is why I value his reviews even in those cases he has a different opinion than me, because he always explains why he feels a certain way*. Enabling me to judge whether I share his opinion or not. He is not biased. And indeed, his reviews aren’t overall negative, also not in this case. Still people feel very threatened by him somehow. Maybe because he presents facts before giving his personal view?
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
But by definition, nobody can be "objective" for a review.
There is nothing productive about arguing a hyperbole or arguing extremes. To make your above argument, you're basically making no attempt to understand their arguments and simplifying an entire scale into "subjective or objective," where 100% of reviewers belong to subjective by default.
The point is that on the objective-subjective scale, yes, LGR is more objective in his methods. He does not take bribes from the developer, he does not show a reluctance to be positive or negative, he has both positive and negative reviews under his belt (here's a challenge: link me a game changer with a negative review of a pack), and he often tries to articulate why he did or didn't like an aspect of the pack to the best of his ability.
His competition takes bribes, many of them absolutely show a reluctance to be negative, as I said I think a Game Changer with a negative pack review might be about as real as the loch ness monster, and half of them only have commentary to the extent of "omg I love it."
There is a reason LGR remains the most talked-about reviewer and a reason he's regarded as the most objective: because he is.
I agree with everything you have been saying BUT I think we should talk about successes in this case as well, lest we end up sounding like The Sims 4 is in a hopeless state that nothing ever ever is right, which is not the case.
Honestly, at least to me, I don't compare The Sims 4 to past entries anymore, I gave up on that and now, looking at The Sims 4 as a whole, there is things that I like in The Sims 4 that do not exist in previous versions.
Jungle Adventures is awful, like, really bad in my opinion, and I don't say this based on WA or anything, I mean, WA was one of my favourite expansions packs in The Sims 3 but I didn't expect much from a Game Pack anyway. I say this based on The Sims 4's own quality standard.
I mean, there's no way that after Dine Out (yes, it doesn't works out perfectly but that's the engine's fault to begin with, simulation lag is not a Dine Out thing, it's in the entire game), Vampires and specially the Parenthood Game Packs one can play Jungle Adventures for more than one hour and say "yes, this is a good pack".
Everything is recycled, the temples are a total letdown, being random means nothing if it is the same "Choose blindly from 4 meaningless options" every single time, I mean, it is so lazy that they didn't even bother actually providing a good variety of those "puzzles" (and I use the term very loosely) because you'll see the exact same one multiple times in the same temple, they even lock some areas to give the impression that there's more to it, but there really ins't it.
Not to mention the actual lack of polishing in the gameplay part, did they playtest this? what's with the insane amounts of money? what's with all those random moods? you know, not like the Mood system wasn't in a dire state already, but that's really one way that show that you have no idea about how to use moods correctly, how am I supposed to care what mood my Sim is in if my Sim receive mood weighing buffs for the most ridiculous things? there's such a flood of positive ones that even if you do fail in the "puzzles" it doesn't matter, that one uncomfortable buff will get buried under the flood of positive ones real quick, my Sim was poisoned and is dying but he saw a really beautiful waterfall a while ago so he just want to flirt and everything is okay.
Comments
Well the Gurus/reviewers all call school/volunteering/city living concerts rabbit holes. Call it what you want but it’s the same thing no matter how picky one gets over the wording. Your sim is off the lot and you can’t see them. You may be presented with a chance card. Period.
I mean, it's excusable when they're an afterthought in a pack that has three vacation destinations, a hotel system, vacation homes, new lifestates, tons of new items and interactions, building items, etc. -- chances are you've played TS2: Bon Voyage, so I'll spare you the rest.
This is a $20 dollar game pack which is advertising itself as an adventure through a jungle, so you better believe, with a focus so narrow as that, I want to actually be adventuring a jungle. Not reading a text pick-your-own-choice adventure, because I can do that for free online.
I thought the belief was that game packs would allow them more time and development resources to fully flesh out a feature? When I see things like that, it just furthers my opinion this new business model is just EA's attempt to monetize the living plum out of this franchise.
I don't particularly care what the terminology is (as the poster above said as well, not even EA seems to get it consistent themselves). All I know is, the game is a closed world, so there is no reason why we should have an open world's flaws baked into this game, too.
(*example, I remember him being very enthousiastic about GT, but it became clear to me that it was for reasons I don’t care for myself so I didn’t buy the pack until much later when it was on sale)
The facts of the mater are this:
In sims 3, I spent a good long while watching my sim drive TO the restaurant so that I could watch them disappear in to it and hear something simulating a restaurant environment.
In sims 4, my sims disappear during the travel TO, but once they are there, I get to be there IN the restaurant with them. I prefer that much more.
In sims 2, my sims on vacation disappeared on a helicopter trip. And I played the chance cards that came up that affected their moods when they finally appeared back on the pavement after the trip.
In sims 4, my sim has a couple of choices to affect his mood as he moves in to a new area, but once he gets there, I am THERE with him. I prefer that much more.
Rabbit holes were way worse in Sims 2 and 3 than they are now in sims 4.
I don't neccesarily take issue with the text-based adventures. My concern just from watching videos is just how long the actual adventuring takes. I clocked someone analyzing a relic and it took one in-game hour. Thing is they have to dig it out of the dirt, they have to get it out of the dirt clump, and then they have to analyze it. Sounds like three hours per thing at a minimum, and all of that is time you're sitting there doing nothing. (and yeah, incidentally that person playing was interacting with the stream and largely ignoring the game while the sim analyzed stuff)
All Sims games have moments where you want a Sim to learn a skill, and you sit there waiting for a bar to fill. However, 1) This seems to be the bulk of the pack's entire experience, and 2) Sims 4 has such a terrible history with Speed x3 that to this day I would not dare to use it. I have no idea if Speed x3 has been properly fixed, I've heard no confirmation of it being fixed, and it's jeoprodizing the stability of an entire save file to even try.
My issues with this pack are:
1) The time spent doing basic actions is absolutely obscene. Why did they make it take so long to do actions that players are expected to do repeatedly for the pack?
2) The outcomes are all luck-based. I loathe fishing in Sims 4 because the baits aren't effective enough. In Sims 3 if I want a deathfish I just need to use an angelfish. In Sims 4 it tells you "USE A SMALL FISH" and omg half the fish population uses small fish as bait so it doesn't matter anyways. Those traps in the temples likewise look luck-based. When I realized some traps are absolute decoys with no function beyond potentially forcing a fail....where's the thought here? It doesn't even seem like the player can plan or try to mitigate failures in any way. I was hoping for skill-based outcomes and that seems to exist to a degree, but it also seems like a certain chunk of the puzzles remains luck-based. The result is you're motivated to examine everything first (which exaggerates the first issue above), you still might fail, and even then you have to question what does any of it matter? The punishments are moodlets too, so the entire thing just feels like a trivial waste of time. I have no idea why the pack's content seems designed to waste time.
3) The locations being blocked off. I'm sure most of us assumed there were at least two temple entrances and the five layouts occurred in seperate ones. Instead, it seems like the locked off locations are....kinda pointless? The ones I've seen explored were tiny and had zero purpose. They were just....there. To see such a disappointing location and then realized they lock off access to half of them for no reason....why?? I'm a crazy-curious person, and I'm dying to know how they felt this enhances the gameplay. It honestly feels like the decision was made to give the illusion of more content, since if your first trip is disappointing or you only watch one stream and feel disappointed, you can always tell yourself "maybe the other paths are better." They're not and they all seem pointless. Even the temple itself seems to be limited to once per day, and I have to ask why. When I see people play, they do the temple and then spend the rest of the time watching their sim hit a rock with a hammer OR socializing in town. Neither seem really exciting. I wonder if the next point ties into this in regards to the temple....
4) The cash rewards. This one has me wondering if it's a reason they lock off the temple periodically, though again this is a strange design choice. The cash rewards seem absolutely obscene. Explore a temple? He's a minimum of ten thousand dollars. I heard and expected the cash rewards might be high, but holy crap. This seems downright unbalanced. However, if this is the reason for locking off the temple, why not just drop the reward values accordingly in order to allow temple access more frequently? Locking off the temple just seems to encourage wait time. Nobody likes just waiting around and some people (me) hate when cash rewards are too high. What on earth is the motivation for making players spend more time sitting around in exchange for more expensive rewards?
The entire balance and design of the core interactions just seems so backwards it's downright confusing. I legitimately question if the interactions are designed to take ages and the locations are blocked off all with the purpose of drawing the experience out and making it seem bigger. I don't suspect that as a default, but rather I simply cannot think of any other rational motivations for the pack interactions being such a time sink. Surely they playtested it and realized watching a sim hit a rock with a hammer for one hour every time you want to do something isn't fun, and yet here we are. These interactions honestly feel like they take 5-10 times as long as the interactions from World Adventures, and I cannot possibly fathom why they chose to do this.
All I can say is that if playing it is as boring as watching it is, then I honestly question if Outdoor Retreat is actually better, solely on the grounds that Outdoor Retreat at least holds your attention by making you scan the forest floor for plants and insects, not reducing the entire experience into a one hour luck-based interaction by the sims.
I had some degree of hope for this pack, so it's very disappointing to see it looking so dull. I remember the first comment I made about it was that the teaser had me concerned the skeletons weren't a threat, but rather "LOL that skeleton just told me a joke #WeirderStories #BlameSteve," and holy crap I was spot on. I can look past the goofy tone of the skeletons if the rest of the experience seems worthwhile, but now knowing the rewards and seeing how boring the gameplay looks, I'm just left with disappointment and a sense of awe that there were so many bad decisions made regarding time management.
At least you've come back to the thread topic. They are entitled to their opinion and don't have to be drawn into a yes/no argument. That leads to bullying in my own opinion.
Yeah, the problem with using objective that way is people tend to take it meaning he has no opinion -- he does, and he expresses it in an entertaining way. What he doesn't have is a bias towards making sure he keeps his free stuff coming. And frankly, EA by dropping him from the free-stuff program also sent a clear message to other reviewers. Keep it positive.
Really, they're paid well. Not only in free games, but aren't there boot camps as well that they get sent to as well that EA pays for? Or am I wrong about that and it was a one-off thing?
It's a discussion about rabbit holes because a good segment of LGR's review covered the text-based adventures.
In Sims 3, we had rabbitholes because the open world was incredibly resource demanding, not only for EA, but for our computers, too. Sims 3 does have restaurants as store content, but, IMHO, they're not as good as TS1, TS2, or TS4's. Sims 4 spent a $20 dollar game pack aiming to flesh out restaurants, and it did alright, but even with the closed world, the horrible simulation lag TS4 possesses causes restaurants to be an all-day affair. It's gotten so horrible that it's content I don't even use because it consumes a whole day due to lag alone.
I love when people try to defend a 2018 release by bringing up an expansion pack released in 2007 for a 2004 base game. Yes, we had chance cards in the form of tours in TS2: Bon Voyage. However, the expansion pack came with a humongous amount of content with such a wide range of focus, that those tours were just a little fun side feature. Chance cards in Jungle Adventure are part of the core gameplay of a $20 dollar pack which focuses entirely on one destination, doing one thing. Not very exciting, at least to me.
I much prefer to explore the game with my Sim, as well. But I do think there could have been far more depth and design put into the jungle compared to relying on text-based adventures. Even in the temple, I would have far preferred actually solving a puzzle myself through my Sim, rather than sit in my chair, watch them write on a notepad, and then click an interaction after a few seconds. Boring.
Very nice post. I am glad I did not spend my money on this pack, especially with so many other exciting company releases.
The time length of interactions does indeed sound long, and I'd imagine only with the simulation lag still infesting this game makes it longer.
The development team of The Sims 4 has frequently lacked good game design. The huge appeal of The Sims to me was the simulation/strategy design that The Sims 2 did amazingly well with for its time. There was a sense of risk and challenge frequently in the game, and I often had to plan out how the day would go to ensure my Sims would have productive, successful days ahead.
In The Sims 4, all of that goes out of the window. The game mechanics it offers (emotions, aspirations, whims, collecting, etc.) feel useless to the core, and a horrible chore after the first go (sometimes even during the first go). The game just doesn't feel like a game anymore.
When they try to make packs like Jungle Adventure, its often unbalanced, just as you said. Either the pack is too rewarding, or not rewarding enough. The means of attaining the reward (in this case, relics and whatnot) is often boring. As we see in the temples, there are no real puzzles to be found. It's basically the doctor/vet career recycled -- you are clicking around for clues, and trying to figure out which is the right interaction to click. But in the interim of that, you are simply watching your Sim take notes. How is that fun??
I think the excessive time is designed to draw the experience out, purposefully so the player has to go back and do it again. Believe me, personally I think it is boring. I don’t want to watch my sim dig for several sim hours. Why does everything in this game take an excessive amount of time? This is the first game pack I regret buying.
Considar yourself lucky then, because for many (most?) It takes 8 sim hours or more. If you leave at 9am for breakfast, play it safe and just order lunch.... Because itll be waaay past breakfast by the time you get your food. Then eating while talking always takes forever. And god forbid your server drops your food....
And if i can speak on simulation lag..... I barely have it since the devs patch and since getting a new laptop for Christmas. The night time ultra speed works fine. It will lag a little during parties and if i invite more than 16 people to my sims house, but not as bad as it used to be. And trust me.... I was very very upset with the lag and freezing and time distortion, all of it was terrible. But i think/hope that is behind us.
Well then, I’m envious of you, as it takes roughly a good hour for my Sims to both be seated after playing some musical chairs, 3-6 hours for my Sim to get their meal they ordered, and another 2-3 hours to eat. If they get into an involuntary group chat with other dining Sims, that number goes up even more. So what should be a nice morning meal at the diner does not get finished until the evening.
It’s absolutely nothing like that with The Sims 2. It’s quick, but not too quick, and I have awesome dining interactions that TS4 lacked to put in a game pack surrounded all around dining out (as compared to TS2 having restaurants as a side feature of a downtown/city pack!) At least TS4 Sims can draw a picture while waiting for their food?
Remember LGR was never an influencer/game changer. They sent him free copies. But he refused to be part of of the program. The game changer program means you can be selected to go to sims camp which is a yearly event and sometimes other events/meetings. (Some of them have been to California very recently for meetings)
They did stop sending him free copies which does say they prefer postivity.
Whoops this is really meant for @Felicity
This is one of those things I refuse to believe until I uncover video evidence of someone flawlessly eating at a restaurant in under 5 hours. Whether you experience it or not, it's clear this is a game issue and it's frequent enough to not be a user issue, as it affects an unacceptable quota of people.Issues like this need to be addressed, lest they pop up again in future packs. After all, they seem to love recycling content and systems.
I once attempted to complete the collection for experimental foods, and the problem was basically both that the wait staff/cook did not move as efficiently as they could for some reason, and then your sim spends more time oooh'ing and aaah'ing at the plate rather than actually eating it. I think I was even fascinated once because by the time my Sim finished their meal, their hunger need wasn't even maxed out because they took so long to eat it. I explicitly remember having that Sim take vacation days off work just to eat, and often returning home dead tired.
This is a serious problem moving forward too. Jungle Adventures recycles food stalls, merchant tables and many of the core gameplay elements for the puzzles. In it's case, it's just a bit boring to see the same things used over and over. Other cases though, such as the vet career, they readily recycle features that have been broken since their creation. Go look up feedback for Get To Work's Retail, Dine Out and the vet career, and not a single one runs perfectly smooth and not a single one is without serious issues. Dine Out is probably the best of the three since it's flaws are ignorable with random customers just not being served, but Vet and Get To Work both suffer from reports of employees simply not doing anything. They seem eager to recycle content though even IF the content doesn't work.
And I find it absolutely concerning to see packs like Jungle Adventures release and despite the amounts of recycled content, the pack still looks like a dud. If they're recycling content to conserve time to use on other new features, an argument can be made it's worth it. Here though, I have no idea what their focus went into. It seems to be the world itself and the build mode objects, but then I have to wonder how that could be since Vampires also did a great job at providing nice build mode objects and didn't suffer in quality for it. I cannot tell if there's poor planning going on or just a feeling of apathy about the pack by the development team.
Random tangent too, but another thing I find concerning is how animations seem to be getting worse. I happened to see that the laundry pack has a "frame drop" when Sims do laundry. Initially I thought this was a stream issue, but it seems Sims consistently have a poor-quality animation when interacting with laundry machines. I've seen a similar thing now occur when players try to assemble totems. (or use them? I forget) Why are the animations losing quality? Does this game just have a budget of absolute zero? It's very strange too because the new dance animations actually look good and fleshed out. It's rare they provide new animations (presumably due to cost) so on one hand seeing the dance is surprising, but then it's paired with more choppy animations and I sit here wondering what's going on at Maxis.
I digress though, that's a lot of tangents I just went off on. My point is we cannot just sweep past issues under the rug and pretend they don't exist. When we do that, they absolutely resurface. Get To Work's Retail was non-functional, and yes Dine Out and Vet career have similar issues. Laundry day had choppy animations, now Jungle Adventure does too. City Living sold despite recycling base game content and providing minimal new content like food stalls and market tables, lo and behold Pets and Jungle Adventure recycle those to pad their content count as well.
We should not be focusing on the moments when things do work. We should be focusing on when they don't. If you're trying to land a person on Mars and one of your two spaceship launches crashes and burns, you don't sit and dwell on the one that worked, you try to figure out why the other one failed. Focusing on the success doesn't solve the problem, focusing on the failure helps pinpoint the problem. As such - no offense intended - but I don't see the value in saying "my game works fine" when it's clean a non-insignificant amount of the population doesn't have your great fortune.
Yeah, you're right -- he wasn't a part of their influencer program, he just got a few free games. And that's what I thought, that they give free trips to their reviewers along with sneak previews even before review copies are ready. And that's on top of what they make for their videos, which they get paid, provided they have advertisers, CPM (clicks per thousand), which can be in and of itself pretty decent pay. One of my kids does youtube videos, and even with just a few over 100k subscribers, he gets a decent amount for the videos he releases.
Really, the only Sims reviewer I watch is LGR, and that's because he doesn't squee. I get an overview of what's in the pack, and that's really all I want. Given that I own ever single Sims pack, obviously he's not scaring me off. But he's funny, and I don't take what he doesn't like as a personal insult.
Everyone knows this game pack harkens back to the world adventures of sims 3. New games should always be an improvement. So to make jungle adventure a game pack instead of an expansion pack is a horrible business decision; to choose to make this a game pack, when they knew that most people would be comparing this to world adventures, and some to sims 2 bon voyage. This to me is just more proof of how horribly they are doing. You can have all the data on the internet that you want, but the proof is in what they delivery. This is awful. They have such talented people on the team and they could be doing leaps and bounds better than what we see in sims 4.
I don't know if that's true or not. I still go to GF even though it was released in 2015. And I still use DO every time I play the game. I can see how JA has more replayability than even GF though.
What I don't find replayable though, is the festivals or much of anything to do with city living. Or cats and dogs.
Sims 4 game packs are showing up the expansion packs by a long mile.
But by definition, nobody can be "objective" for a review. Because they use their own personal bias to make the review. Maybe they aren't influenced by others, which is what I think you mean, but it's not "objective."
Objective would be: "There are 125 new objects in the pack, and 22 new CAS items."
Subjective: (which any real review is): "There are 125 new objects in the pack, and 22 new CAS items. Since the gameplay offered by these objects isn't that fleshed out, I don't think the pack is worth the money".
There is no true objectivity in any of LGR's reviews - because there is no objectivity in ANY review, unless all one did was state the facts, which defeats the purpose of a review.
Sim Stuff by Pegasys
There is nothing productive about arguing a hyperbole or arguing extremes. To make your above argument, you're basically making no attempt to understand their arguments and simplifying an entire scale into "subjective or objective," where 100% of reviewers belong to subjective by default.
The point is that on the objective-subjective scale, yes, LGR is more objective in his methods. He does not take bribes from the developer, he does not show a reluctance to be positive or negative, he has both positive and negative reviews under his belt (here's a challenge: link me a game changer with a negative review of a pack), and he often tries to articulate why he did or didn't like an aspect of the pack to the best of his ability.
His competition takes bribes, many of them absolutely show a reluctance to be negative, as I said I think a Game Changer with a negative pack review might be about as real as the loch ness monster, and half of them only have commentary to the extent of "omg I love it."
There is a reason LGR remains the most talked-about reviewer and a reason he's regarded as the most objective: because he is.
I agree with everything you have been saying BUT I think we should talk about successes in this case as well, lest we end up sounding like The Sims 4 is in a hopeless state that nothing ever ever is right, which is not the case.
Honestly, at least to me, I don't compare The Sims 4 to past entries anymore, I gave up on that and now, looking at The Sims 4 as a whole, there is things that I like in The Sims 4 that do not exist in previous versions.
Jungle Adventures is awful, like, really bad in my opinion, and I don't say this based on WA or anything, I mean, WA was one of my favourite expansions packs in The Sims 3 but I didn't expect much from a Game Pack anyway. I say this based on The Sims 4's own quality standard.
I mean, there's no way that after Dine Out (yes, it doesn't works out perfectly but that's the engine's fault to begin with, simulation lag is not a Dine Out thing, it's in the entire game), Vampires and specially the Parenthood Game Packs one can play Jungle Adventures for more than one hour and say "yes, this is a good pack".
Everything is recycled, the temples are a total letdown, being random means nothing if it is the same "Choose blindly from 4 meaningless options" every single time, I mean, it is so lazy that they didn't even bother actually providing a good variety of those "puzzles" (and I use the term very loosely) because you'll see the exact same one multiple times in the same temple, they even lock some areas to give the impression that there's more to it, but there really ins't it.
Not to mention the actual lack of polishing in the gameplay part, did they playtest this? what's with the insane amounts of money? what's with all those random moods? you know, not like the Mood system wasn't in a dire state already, but that's really one way that show that you have no idea about how to use moods correctly, how am I supposed to care what mood my Sim is in if my Sim receive mood weighing buffs for the most ridiculous things? there's such a flood of positive ones that even if you do fail in the "puzzles" it doesn't matter, that one uncomfortable buff will get buried under the flood of positive ones real quick, my Sim was poisoned and is dying but he saw a really beautiful waterfall a while ago so he just want to flirt and everything is okay.