I have never noticed this before, but if this is really true, than it might be good if the developers were to create some more randomness. Now I am also wondering what happens if the man got pregnant instead of the woman. Would he be carrying the toddler then?
Yeah, I agree, its sexist, discriminating against fathers and crazy annoying. It's not a coincidence, but it might be an oversight. I tried to make the game have the father of a family of mine hold their toddler, but it wouldn't let me. Even though the mom was ambitious, self-assured and had the fabulously wealthy aspiration while the dad was a family-oriented super parent, the mother was still the one holding the toddler. It didn't matter that I created him first either.
Although, this is not the only sexist thing in the game, you can see it in how the sims are created as well. Its most obvious in the basegame but the trend continues in the EP:s as well. Have you noticed that there is not one overweight female sim in the basegame? While Eric, Bob, Mitchell and Geoffrey all have a bit of a tummy? Or that all the female sims (teen-adult), except for Nina and Katrina, are super skinny? Or that Bella (who's head is smaller than her waist by the way) is in the beginning of the young adult stage but has managed to conceive two children, one who is a teen. Her husband on the other hand, is a normal-sized adult. Why in the world isn't she as well? And where did she get the partydress I used to wear when I was out clubbing in my twenties?
All of the females in the basegame are thin, but 7/11 (teen-adult) are unhealthy skinny, if transferred to a living person. At the same time only 3/11 male sims are superskinny and 2/11 could even be considered overweight. 2/11 are extremely muscular and the rest have a normal body size of different kinds. I would appreciate a bit of variations in the females as well. And to stop the unhealthy superskinny sims from setting foot in my game again. I love the sims 4, its my favorite version of all sims games, but this makes me absolutely crazy. I feel that a game that attracts so many teens should take their responsibility when it comes to body ideals, sexism and discrimination. The sims 4 does in many ways, but when it comes to these to things they are seriously lacking. Let fathers hold their babies and stop the Ralph Lauren-ing of sims body shapes.
Ps. I hope it isn't to off topic to talk about the body shapes of sims. It's just the first thing that came to my mind when I the title.
You can find me at the gallery, my ID is Jan_telefon!
I've never really noticed or cared for how it's always the woman holding the toddler. But now that I see it in one image, it does strike me as odd to have this in a Sims game.
I'm not sure if I still have the screenshot, but I once had a family with twins where the mom was holding one baby, but the dad was just stood there with the other baby left in a bassinet. That definitely struck me as odd. Odd enough to take a screenshot. And I know I don't have a screenshot of this, but there was another instance where a female teen was holding her toddler sibling while again the dad was just standing there waving his hands around. The mom was holding another toddler. I've even had an incident where there was an adult aunt holding her niece when the couple was two guys. The game can at least be called inconsistent in who is holding young children. If there is a young child, it should automatically default to parents first, and if there's more than one young child, it should be held one of the parents.
Yeah, I agree, its sexist, discriminating against fathers and crazy annoying. It's not a coincidence, but it might be an oversight. I tried to make the game have the father of a family of mine hold their toddler, but it wouldn't let me. Even though the mom was ambitious, self-assured and had the fabulously wealthy aspiration while the dad was a family-oriented super parent, the mother was still the one holding the toddler. It didn't matter that I created him first either.
Although, this is not the only sexist thing in the game, you can see it in how the sims are created as well. Its most obvious in the basegame but the trend continues in the EP:s as well. Have you noticed that there is not one overweight female sim in the basegame? While Eric, Bob, Mitchell and Geoffrey all have a bit of a tummy? Or that all the female sims (teen-adult), except for Nina and Katrina, are super skinny? Or that Bella (who's head is smaller than her waist by the way) is in the beginning of the young adult stage but has managed to conceive two children, one who is a teen. Her husband on the other hand, is a normal-sized adult. Why in the world isn't she as well? And where did she get the partydress I used to wear when I was out clubbing in my twenties?
All of the females in the basegame are thin, but 7/11 (teen-adult) are unhealthy skinny, if transferred to a living person. At the same time only 3/11 male sims are superskinny and 2/11 could even be considered overweight. 2/11 are extremely muscular and the rest have a normal body size of different kinds. I would appreciate a bit of variations in the females as well. And to stop the unhealthy superskinny sims from setting foot in my game again. I love the sims 4, its my favorite version of all sims games, but this makes me absolutely crazy. I feel that a game that attracts so many teens should take their responsibility when it comes to body ideals, sexism and discrimination. The sims 4 does in many ways, but when it comes to these to things they are seriously lacking. Let fathers hold their babies and stop the Ralph Lauren-ing of sims body shapes.
Ps. I hope it isn't to off topic to talk about the body shapes of sims. It's just the first thing that came to my mind when I the title.
Yeah, I always found the super skinny thing a bit odd. I think I get why they do it though... I think it's because of the cartoon-ish nature of the game and art style, and they're just trying to create sims who look "petite" at a distance.
I've noticed that due to how the art style works, you can, in some cases, have a sim who looks significantly skinnier based on what they're wearing. Like some tops and bottoms really bulk up the look of the sim significantly. So if you're trying to make a sim who looks thin at a distance, you might have to go super thin for them to look thin still in some of the clothing.
So that problem may be more a consequence of the art style than anything else. But making most females "petite" and most males overweight or muscular... they could definitely diverge from that more in the premades.
Sexism - if you even want to call this that - is not gonna be thwarted by a patch where men carry babies in a photo. Might be better to spend that concern on something a bit more impactful if sexism bothers you so much. Not saying that to be rude, I just think it's a more practical/productive use of one's time to find "bigger fish to fry" if combatting sexism is something you're truly passionate about.
Hmmm you mean, kinda like I told you there's bigger fish to fry than this game if you're truly passionate about corporate greed? (no bad intentions here, I just had a really bad day and your comment actually really made me smile )
On a side-note: saying something's a "little sexist" isn't the same as being "truly passionate about [combating] sexism".
Off-topic but here's the difference:
"I want to combat sexism" --> "Income inequality is technically illegal yet still happens. Help crack down on that. There's also charities to promote women's interests and rights in third world countries."
"I hate how capitalism benefits off exploiting uninformed customers and eventually prioritizes profit over the quality of a service." --> ????
By all means, if you have a functioning plan on how to remedy that issue, please speak up. I don't see a way, I'm not sure it's something I can do anything about as an individual (since purchasing habits depend on masses; I mean I already do my part on that front by not purchasing products that I don't support or find to be lacking in quality. Technically doing my part just by voicing my concerns too, but as I said you can't do anything if you recognize a problem but masses of people do not and enable the growth of such a company), so what would you have me do? The pivotal difference is that one of these has a clear path of how to make a difference. The other....? Quite frankly, I think whoever solves the problem of how to teach companies to constantly keep the quality of the service as a priority over direct profit deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.
WOW, this is mindblowing. I stared at this pattern countless times and never really noticed it. Thank you for the enlighment.
This is how things change in the world, when people realize a new way to look at things they just considered normal for so long. It may take ages, but it works - it's always the first step.
What I see in my game photos is that it's the person that actually has the baby that hold it the most. I have a m/m couple and the father that birthed the child holds it. I have f/f couples and the female that birthed it holds it the most. I have a m/f and the mother holds it the most. However, in gameplay... both parents seem to hold and care for it equally.
"Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" -Auntie Mame
What I see in my game photos is that it's the person that actually has the baby that hold it the most. I have a m/m couple and the father that birthed the child holds it. I have f/f couples and the female that birthed it holds it the most. I have a m/f and the mother holds it the most. However, in gameplay... both parents seem to hold and care for it equally.
Not that it matters, but very simple test to check if this is indeed the rule: make a household with a male and female married couple, get the male impregnated by an alien, see who holds it.
Never really noticed, but then I see it as acceptable gender roles based on my own beliefs. I am also a stay at home mom and am the only parent usually holding kids in my irl pictures.
c'mon it's a Sims game who cares if the female SIM is holding the baby stop reading into everything like it has a hidden agenda is it really that big of deal
Weirdly enough only the people who argue that this is not a "big deal" are the ones who used the words "big deal". With all the silly things people post on this forum - as they should, this is a forum solely created for the purpose of discussing a franchise of video games - why is this not worth bringing up? If you don't feel it is worth discussing then why would you keep posting and help keeping this thread alive? If no one cares and there are more important things to do, then this should be easy to ignore. Apparently you are bothered by some players being bothered about this. Peculiar.
I had a look through the gallery last night and spotted it all over the place, whereas I never noticed before it until this thread. It was the same poses/patterns as shown in the examples in the OP. It's an interesting observation.
I use MCCC and noticed in my own save last night there was a household that had an elder man holding a toddler and what looked like a mix of teens and YAs/Adults. I checked to see the family relationship and it appeared that he was the father of this child and that one of his adult kids had gotten married and moved their spouse's family in. The elder and toddler were the only two with that last name in the household, everybody else had a different last name. Either he was the the sole surviving parent or he was the one who gave birth to the baby before he became an elder. I didn't investigate it any more than to see who was living there now. Other than that one example, the rest of the households I saw were all like the poses in the OP.
The fact that people would rather have EA take its time to fix these thumbnails instead of using that time to improve game play or fix any of the numerous bugs just staggering.
The fact that people would rather have EA take its time to fix these thumbnails instead of using that time to improve game play or fix any of the numerous bugs just staggering.
This would be a valid argument if all, or at least most, threads on this forum were about bugs. That is not the case. The OP posted about something she found "disappointing" and wanted to share with her fellow simmers. It is at least as valid a thread as "where is my favourite music genre?" or "look at this cake!". When you make an observation or have an issue or complaint, you never know whether EA is going to pay attention to it. All you can really count on is your fellow simmers to care. It is ok if you don't care about this, just create threads about all the things that bother you. Surely EA will respond, make you feel better about it and fix everything.
The fact that people would rather have EA take its time to fix these thumbnails instead of using that time to improve game play or fix any of the numerous bugs just staggering.
This would be a valid argument if all, or at least most, threads on this forum were about bugs. That is not the case. The OP posted about something she found "disappointing" and wanted to share with her fellow simmers. It is at least as valid a thread as "where is my favourite music genre?" or "look at this cake!". When you make an observation or have an issue or complaint, you never know whether EA is going to pay attention to it. All you can really count on is your fellow simmers to care. It is ok if you don't care about this, just create threads about all the things that bother you. Surely EA will respond, make you feel better about it and fix everything.
But when you post something like that, people are going to disagree with you, and they can post that. That's kind of how a forum works.
Yes! Disagreeing is a point of view. I would expect someone who disagrees to have an opposing view. I don't agree that 'EA has better stuff to do' is an argument against someone describing their observations. It is ok not to care about something, but not caring so much that you have to express you don't care seems a bit odd to me. And it also seems at odds with not caring. But people use the forum in different ways, I suppose.
Yes! Disagreeing is a point of view. I would expect someone who disagrees to have an opposing view. I don't agree that 'EA has better stuff to do' is an argument against someone describing their observations. It is ok not to care about something, but not caring so much that you have to express you don't care seems a bit odd to me. And it also seems at odds with not caring. But people use the forum in different ways, I suppose.
I don't care about the thumbnails. They can stop taking pictures of the families and just put a number there for all I care. What I care about is them allocating resources to change something that I don't care about when they could allocate them to something I do care about. If I remain silent, then the people who are voicing their opinions are the ones who will effect change, and I won't have any say in the matter. So not caring doesn't mean not saying anything.
Yes! Disagreeing is a point of view. I would expect someone who disagrees to have an opposing view. I don't agree that 'EA has better stuff to do' is an argument against someone describing their observations. It is ok not to care about something, but not caring so much that you have to express you don't care seems a bit odd to me. And it also seems at odds with not caring. But people use the forum in different ways, I suppose.
Why would it be odd? In the title, the OP is asking a question and in their first post, they're attempting to make a point. Those that ask questions expect answers, right? Such as people saying it's sexist or it isn't and then in their first post, they're making a point. Points, when made publically, are expected to and end up being criticized. Thus being people asking why should this matter.
I agree with @LordOfTendons, if everyone can state why they care about it, why it annoys them, why can't others state why they don't? I figure the OP is looking for perspective. Multiple points of view on whether or not this is even an issue to be addressed. Not people who are willing to agree with them, but rather people that they can civilly discuss this with.
If someone were to say "Those that don't care only contradict themselves by expressing they don't care. That shows they do care to some extent" would be someone trying to shut down criticism.
So following that, I'd rather the team focus on making quality content for the game than ensuring their game is completely, 100% politically correct. ( If you could even state objectively that a woman always holding the child is a form of incorrectness ) I mean, heck, one could say a male Sim being abducted and coming back pregnant is a form of assault. Even worse, alien pregnacy can only happen to male Sims. But I haven't seen anyone mention this.
Ok, so instead of taking the time to express your many issues with the game, you have posted 4 times in a thread about a minor issue you don't care about. As I stated before, it is peculiar to me. I probably should add that I read more in this forum than I post. Most topics I do not care about and I don't participate; I did not post about toddlers or laundry or countless other things. I just don't feel the need to invalidate other players issues out of fear that EA will allocate all their resources to that issue and consequently will ignore mine. This is a forum about a game (not violations, declarations or legislation), so here, I do think that not caring means not saying anything. But that is my point of view, so please, do go on.
I would also like to apologize to OP for derailing this thread. It is a valid issue to bring up and this should not have been about a general issue I have with this forum.
I hire a maid, butler and nanny, add a YA family member (like sister) with all the family traits, then neither mom or dad have to worry about the kids.
I was curious so decided to test this out. I created a married couple but used a mod to get him pregnant with their child. He gave birth to twins, so at first I thought it wouldn't tell me anything because surely they would each hold one, right? Nope, she held one and the other remained in it's bassinet. So then I started another save with the same couple but set them as roommates and used the mod to get him pregnant with someone else's child. This child was neither her biological child nor stepchild so surely he would hold it, right? Nope, she held it again. I personally don't care about whether they change it or not but I do wonder why it was set this way in the first place. I know guys will hold the child if it's a larger household, so why is the guy the last resort? And why is any female sim regardless of whether they're connected to the child the first point of call? If they're setting priorities for who to hold the child then surely parent should trump gender.
> @samlyt22 said: > I was curious so decided to test this out. I created a married couple but used a mod to get him pregnant with their child. He gave birth to twins, so at first I thought it wouldn't tell me anything because surely they would each hold one, right? Nope, she held one and the other remained in it's bassinet. So then I started another save with the same couple but set them as roommates and used the mod to get him pregnant with someone else's child. This child was neither her biological child nor stepchild so surely he would hold it, right? Nope, she held it again. I personally don't care about whether they change it or not but I do wonder why it was set this way in the first place. I know guys will hold the child if it's a larger household, so why is the guy the last resort? And why is any female sim regardless of whether they're connected to the child the first point of call? If they're setting priorities for who to hold the child then surely parent should trump gender.
That's wild. Thanks for sharing that though! I'd noticed this before as well -- it's been this way since TS2, hasn't it? (TS1 for all I know I suppose, but I haven't played that one.) I wonder what the algorithm is, if the coding truly does prioritize female sims. It seems from this that that must be the case, but it seems like this could be easily resolved by just having it randomly select sims without factoring in gender. Or prioritizing people who are on the family tree, then otherwise random. (Though I know nothing about coding, so maybe it's not that easy.)
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Although, this is not the only sexist thing in the game, you can see it in how the sims are created as well. Its most obvious in the basegame but the trend continues in the EP:s as well. Have you noticed that there is not one overweight female sim in the basegame? While Eric, Bob, Mitchell and Geoffrey all have a bit of a tummy? Or that all the female sims (teen-adult), except for Nina and Katrina, are super skinny? Or that Bella (who's head is smaller than her waist by the way) is in the beginning of the young adult stage but has managed to conceive two children, one who is a teen. Her husband on the other hand, is a normal-sized adult. Why in the world isn't she as well? And where did she get the partydress I used to wear when I was out clubbing in my twenties?
All of the females in the basegame are thin, but 7/11 (teen-adult) are unhealthy skinny, if transferred to a living person. At the same time only 3/11 male sims are superskinny and 2/11 could even be considered overweight. 2/11 are extremely muscular and the rest have a normal body size of different kinds. I would appreciate a bit of variations in the females as well. And to stop the unhealthy superskinny sims from setting foot in my game again. I love the sims 4, its my favorite version of all sims games, but this makes me absolutely crazy. I feel that a game that attracts so many teens should take their responsibility when it comes to body ideals, sexism and discrimination. The sims 4 does in many ways, but when it comes to these to things they are seriously lacking. Let fathers hold their babies and stop the Ralph Lauren-ing of sims body shapes.
Ps. I hope it isn't to off topic to talk about the body shapes of sims. It's just the first thing that came to my mind when I the title.
I've noticed that due to how the art style works, you can, in some cases, have a sim who looks significantly skinnier based on what they're wearing. Like some tops and bottoms really bulk up the look of the sim significantly. So if you're trying to make a sim who looks thin at a distance, you might have to go super thin for them to look thin still in some of the clothing.
So that problem may be more a consequence of the art style than anything else. But making most females "petite" and most males overweight or muscular... they could definitely diverge from that more in the premades.
Off-topic but here's the difference:
"I want to combat sexism" --> "Income inequality is technically illegal yet still happens. Help crack down on that. There's also charities to promote women's interests and rights in third world countries."
"I hate how capitalism benefits off exploiting uninformed customers and eventually prioritizes profit over the quality of a service." --> ????
By all means, if you have a functioning plan on how to remedy that issue, please speak up. I don't see a way, I'm not sure it's something I can do anything about as an individual (since purchasing habits depend on masses; I mean I already do my part on that front by not purchasing products that I don't support or find to be lacking in quality. Technically doing my part just by voicing my concerns too, but as I said you can't do anything if you recognize a problem but masses of people do not and enable the growth of such a company), so what would you have me do? The pivotal difference is that one of these has a clear path of how to make a difference. The other....? Quite frankly, I think whoever solves the problem of how to teach companies to constantly keep the quality of the service as a priority over direct profit deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.
This is how things change in the world, when people realize a new way to look at things they just considered normal for so long. It may take ages, but it works - it's always the first step.
Legacy Photomode
Not that it matters, but very simple test to check if this is indeed the rule: make a household with a male and female married couple, get the male impregnated by an alien, see who holds it.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
I use MCCC and noticed in my own save last night there was a household that had an elder man holding a toddler and what looked like a mix of teens and YAs/Adults. I checked to see the family relationship and it appeared that he was the father of this child and that one of his adult kids had gotten married and moved their spouse's family in. The elder and toddler were the only two with that last name in the household, everybody else had a different last name. Either he was the the sole surviving parent or he was the one who gave birth to the baby before he became an elder. I didn't investigate it any more than to see who was living there now. Other than that one example, the rest of the households I saw were all like the poses in the OP.
This would be a valid argument if all, or at least most, threads on this forum were about bugs. That is not the case. The OP posted about something she found "disappointing" and wanted to share with her fellow simmers. It is at least as valid a thread as "where is my favourite music genre?" or "look at this cake!". When you make an observation or have an issue or complaint, you never know whether EA is going to pay attention to it. All you can really count on is your fellow simmers to care. It is ok if you don't care about this, just create threads about all the things that bother you. Surely EA will respond, make you feel better about it and fix everything.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
But when you post something like that, people are going to disagree with you, and they can post that. That's kind of how a forum works.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
I don't care about the thumbnails. They can stop taking pictures of the families and just put a number there for all I care. What I care about is them allocating resources to change something that I don't care about when they could allocate them to something I do care about. If I remain silent, then the people who are voicing their opinions are the ones who will effect change, and I won't have any say in the matter. So not caring doesn't mean not saying anything.
Why would it be odd? In the title, the OP is asking a question and in their first post, they're attempting to make a point. Those that ask questions expect answers, right? Such as people saying it's sexist or it isn't and then in their first post, they're making a point. Points, when made publically, are expected to and end up being criticized. Thus being people asking why should this matter.
I agree with @LordOfTendons, if everyone can state why they care about it, why it annoys them, why can't others state why they don't? I figure the OP is looking for perspective. Multiple points of view on whether or not this is even an issue to be addressed. Not people who are willing to agree with them, but rather people that they can civilly discuss this with.
If someone were to say "Those that don't care only contradict themselves by expressing they don't care. That shows they do care to some extent" would be someone trying to shut down criticism.
So following that, I'd rather the team focus on making quality content for the game than ensuring their game is completely, 100% politically correct. ( If you could even state objectively that a woman always holding the child is a form of incorrectness ) I mean, heck, one could say a male Sim being abducted and coming back pregnant is a form of assault. Even worse, alien pregnacy can only happen to male Sims. But I haven't seen anyone mention this.
I would also like to apologize to OP for derailing this thread. It is a valid issue to bring up and this should not have been about a general issue I have with this forum.
https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/956513/netz-a-porter-outfits-ready-to-wear-for-your-sims-no-cc-required
Twitter: NetzspannungTS
we all try ...
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> I was curious so decided to test this out. I created a married couple but used a mod to get him pregnant with their child. He gave birth to twins, so at first I thought it wouldn't tell me anything because surely they would each hold one, right? Nope, she held one and the other remained in it's bassinet. So then I started another save with the same couple but set them as roommates and used the mod to get him pregnant with someone else's child. This child was neither her biological child nor stepchild so surely he would hold it, right? Nope, she held it again. I personally don't care about whether they change it or not but I do wonder why it was set this way in the first place. I know guys will hold the child if it's a larger household, so why is the guy the last resort? And why is any female sim regardless of whether they're connected to the child the first point of call? If they're setting priorities for who to hold the child then surely parent should trump gender.
That's wild. Thanks for sharing that though! I'd noticed this before as well -- it's been this way since TS2, hasn't it? (TS1 for all I know I suppose, but I haven't played that one.) I wonder what the algorithm is, if the coding truly does prioritize female sims. It seems from this that that must be the case, but it seems like this could be easily resolved by just having it randomly select sims without factoring in gender. Or prioritizing people who are on the family tree, then otherwise random. (Though I know nothing about coding, so maybe it's not that easy.)