You are browsing a read-only section of the forums. Were you looking for discussions around the knitting themed Community Stuff Pack Project? Click here!
June 2nd - It's time for our Friday Highlights! You can check them out here!

Including Laundry as a potential SP concept for us to vote for was a mistake

Comments

  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    starcrunch wrote: »
    starcrunch wrote: »
    If none of those ideas can compete with laundry at the ballot box they deserve to be defeated and laundry deserves to win. This is how votes work.

    Time will tell but three options (one of which is laundry) appear to be doing very well with many passionate advocates. Carbon conscious seems doomed.

    I think you missed the point of the thread and general idea.

    It comes down to a common saying (at least here in America). Go with the devil you know. It refers to a situation where you are pressed with a choice (doesn't always have to be a bad choice), and your choice should/would be to side with the situation/person you are familiar with, rather than a new rouge element. The ultimate safe play as it were.

    Part of it is because laundry is a highly requested feature, but another large part is because its a safe bet. That's the (perceived) problem with the current outlook.

    And another thing too, being able to compete with the easy choice doesn't mean those other ideas are not good. Clearly alot of people here agree that ALL of them are good.

    They all sound interesting and fun. The problem is you can only have one....for now and maybe ever.

    The question is which idea gets the most votes. The devil you know vs. the one you don't, while certainly relevant in how voters may vote, isn't a disqualifying reason for removing something from a vote. Either your idea gets enough votes or it doesn't, you don't disqualify the most popular candidate because yours is losing. The whole argument sounds an awful lot like, "I'm not going to get the most votes, so I'm going to suggest it's unfair, but the reason it's unfair is the other team is winning." Being more popular is basically the dependent variable in a vote - IE it's circular to disqualify a side because it's more popular in a popularity contest, and the same logic supplied here can be applied ad infitum to create an "election" that can only supply your desired results.

    Personally I'd rather have off the grid, but if laundry wins because more people know it, then it wins. That's just how votes work.

    I never stated laundry shouldn't be made.

    On the contrary, I'm arguing the fan feedback makes it clear laundry should've been made by the SP team without the need for us to vote for it in the poll. It's as I said: tomorrow if the EP team had us vote on five different completely new EP concepts...except one of them isn't new and it's Seasons...? Yeah, dunno about you, but I'd be driving to the bank to pull out my savings and bet it all on Seasons winning.

    That they included laundry just diminishes the value of the poll and "ruins" an opportunity to give exposure to new ideas, instead giving us something we were already loud enough about to warrant it's production.
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    I sort of hold the position that "if laundry is going to be included regardless due to overwhelming fan requests, what was the purpose of ever including it on the poll against the other stuff?" If laundry doesn't get included in a future pack regardless, then this poll has unintentionally raised the demand and the interest for laundry when it made people think for months that laundry was a sure-win. There would be fan backlash and disappointment that could've easily been avoided by simply working on a laundry SP without the need for a poll. I do not think the same applies to new concepts such as Off the Grid and Dangerous Stuff simply because we don't know what exactly they'd look like when put into our game. It's easy to let go of something and move on when we never had it to begin with; for all we know those two sound great on paper but are terrible in practice, so we can let go and move on. And if they did get included at a later date, then I'd assume they got included because of the overwhelming positive feedback they received: if the feedback from a preview concept description alone was enough alone to generate demand for that concept, then it probably deserves to be a pack, right? No one would cry "foul, why include them on the poll" about those being made later because of course they needed to be included; feedback was low or nonexistent before the poll gave them exposure, so the poll played a vital role.
    I think there's some misunderstanding in wording, which honestly threw me for a bit. I think what Graham is trying to say is that very little is set in stone. Which is something to keep in mind in general, when it comes to these positions that have to do with projections of concrete, slated future for TS4 (something that, I imagine, only exists in the short-term with projects that have already started).

    In other words, I think the problem with what you're saying is that they don't actually know if laundry will be included or not. And if they did, they wouldn't have put it in the poll because it would have already been in the works. It being in the poll just means it's a possible content option to them, it's not a guarantee.

    i.e. to oversimplify the whole conversation: Nothing is a guarantee. And if something is a possible content option, that just means it's a possible content option on a gigantic list. It's no more concrete than the list of concepts we initially voted on.

    At least, that is how it comes across to me.
    Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
  • CandacisCandacis Posts: 186 Member
    I think, Laundry would have been a better option for the Starter Home Theme. If Laundry wins, I would rename the pack. It has little to do with Eco-Living, just name it Laundry Stuff Pack or Sun Room Stuff Pack. Something like that.
  • dom85dom85 Posts: 4 New Member
    I think you're totally right. I voted for nectar making precisely because of what you said, it was something I loved in The Sims 3, I loved World Adventures and I like anything to do with making your own stuff to sell and not have to have an actual job. I was tempted by the Off Grid trait but it just sounded like work for the sims with not a big enough pay off for it. I deliberately avoided voting for laundry because I feel like it's going to win anyway so I might as well vote for something that I actually want instead of following the masses.

    I also question what the point is of some of the furniture that was chosen if by some chance laundry doesn't win. Why would I decorate my house with ironing boards and a wall shelf with clothes hangers when there would be no washing machines to go with it?
  • starcrunchstarcrunch Posts: 672 Member
    starcrunch wrote: »
    starcrunch wrote: »
    If none of those ideas can compete with laundry at the ballot box they deserve to be defeated and laundry deserves to win. This is how votes work.

    Time will tell but three options (one of which is laundry) appear to be doing very well with many passionate advocates. Carbon conscious seems doomed.

    I think you missed the point of the thread and general idea.

    It comes down to a common saying (at least here in America). Go with the devil you know. It refers to a situation where you are pressed with a choice (doesn't always have to be a bad choice), and your choice should/would be to side with the situation/person you are familiar with, rather than a new rouge element. The ultimate safe play as it were.

    Part of it is because laundry is a highly requested feature, but another large part is because its a safe bet. That's the (perceived) problem with the current outlook.

    And another thing too, being able to compete with the easy choice doesn't mean those other ideas are not good. Clearly alot of people here agree that ALL of them are good.

    They all sound interesting and fun. The problem is you can only have one....for now and maybe ever.

    The question is which idea gets the most votes. The devil you know vs. the one you don't, while certainly relevant in how voters may vote, isn't a disqualifying reason for removing something from a vote. Either your idea gets enough votes or it doesn't, you don't disqualify the most popular candidate because yours is losing. The whole argument sounds an awful lot like, "I'm not going to get the most votes, so I'm going to suggest it's unfair, but the reason it's unfair is the other team is winning." Being more popular is basically the dependent variable in a vote - IE it's circular to disqualify a side because it's more popular in a popularity contest, and the same logic supplied here can be applied ad infitum to create an "election" that can only supply your desired results.

    Personally I'd rather have off the grid, but if laundry wins because more people know it, then it wins. That's just how votes work.

    I never stated laundry shouldn't be made.

    On the contrary, I'm arguing the fan feedback makes it clear laundry should've been made by the SP team without the need for us to vote for it in the poll. It's as I said: tomorrow if the EP team had us vote on five different completely new EP concepts...except one of them isn't new and it's Seasons...? Yeah, dunno about you, but I'd be driving to the bank to pull out my savings and bet it all on Seasons winning.

    That they included laundry just diminishes the value of the poll and "ruins" an opportunity to give exposure to new ideas, instead giving us something we were already loud enough about to warrant it's production.

    If it loses the vote, then something else will be made because laundry didn't generate enough votes. That's the point of having the vote. Maybe it'll come in some future pack or maybe it won't, but it will not come in this one unless it wins.

    The new ideas seem to be holding their ground pretty well, or at least 2 of them are. New ideas contend with established ones, it's impossible to bench mark the popularity of a new idea if it's not properly compared to an established idea. If we don't have laundry and the vote were between the 3 new ideas only the winner could still be a terrible idea compared to laundry because we never bothered to see how it stacks up.
    OriginID: CrunchedStars
  • IngeJonesIngeJones Posts: 3,247 Member
    Simanite wrote: »
    L
    A
    U
    N
    D
    R
    Y

    is the new

    T
    O
    D
    D
    L
    E
    R
    S

    I thought it was elevator woohoo?
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited June 2017
    dom85 wrote: »
    I think you're totally right. I voted for nectar making precisely because of what you said, it was something I loved in The Sims 3, I loved World Adventures and I like anything to do with making your own stuff to sell and not have to have an actual job. I was tempted by the Off Grid trait but it just sounded like work for the sims with not a big enough pay off for it. I deliberately avoided voting for laundry because I feel like it's going to win anyway so I might as well vote for something that I actually want instead of following the masses.

    I also question what the point is of some of the furniture that was chosen if by some chance laundry doesn't win. Why would I decorate my house with ironing boards and a wall shelf with clothes hangers when there would be no washing machines to go with it?

    To me that kind of stuff I see in most New England mud rooms so I never once thought laundry room when I saw that decor stuff. I guess it depends on where you live as to what you see things like that as representing. But all that kind of thing here is generally found in the mud room which is generally the room off the kitchen that has the back door to outside. It's where we take off winter gear, keep things like recycling, brooms, mops, ironing boards and etc. My laundry room in my previous house was pretty sterile looking and had a area set up at one end for sewing. So none of that kind of stuff was in my laundry room for sure. LOL.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • VentusMattVentusMatt Posts: 1,028 Member
    IngeJones wrote: »
    Simanite wrote: »
    L
    A
    U
    N
    D
    R
    Y

    is the new

    T
    O
    D
    D
    L
    E
    R
    S

    I thought it was elevator woohoo?

    Elevator? How about shower :wink:
  • MissCherieMissCherie Posts: 408 Member
    Candacis wrote: »
    I think, Laundry would have been a better option for the Starter Home Theme. If Laundry wins, I would rename the pack. It has little to do with Eco-Living, just name it Laundry Stuff Pack or Sun Room Stuff Pack. Something like that.

    The thing is some people voted for the eco-living theme cause they wanted an eco-living SP you know, if they change the name for laundry then that's pretty much ignoring the first vote which was about the theme. To me it was a mistake to put laundry under the eco-living theme.

    At this point if they want to please both the laundry people the eco-living people they will have to include laundry and something else eco-friendly, if laundry is the only new object/gameplay, then the people that wanted eco-friendly will be upset, and I can understand cause it was the theme of the pack, but if laundry lose I would also understand people to be upset cause it was show with the theme, and that mean that they might no get it or at least not in this pack.

    At this point I wouldn't be surprised if maybe they add two objects/gameplays (laundry and something else), and maybe sell the pack 15$, and before some people tell me all SP are 10$, this was said on this one that the price could be different. I don't see how they could please everyone unless they add two objects/gameplays.
    gCQKjq4.png
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    starcrunch wrote: »
    starcrunch wrote: »
    starcrunch wrote: »
    If none of those ideas can compete with laundry at the ballot box they deserve to be defeated and laundry deserves to win. This is how votes work.

    Time will tell but three options (one of which is laundry) appear to be doing very well with many passionate advocates. Carbon conscious seems doomed.

    I think you missed the point of the thread and general idea.

    It comes down to a common saying (at least here in America). Go with the devil you know. It refers to a situation where you are pressed with a choice (doesn't always have to be a bad choice), and your choice should/would be to side with the situation/person you are familiar with, rather than a new rouge element. The ultimate safe play as it were.

    Part of it is because laundry is a highly requested feature, but another large part is because its a safe bet. That's the (perceived) problem with the current outlook.

    And another thing too, being able to compete with the easy choice doesn't mean those other ideas are not good. Clearly alot of people here agree that ALL of them are good.

    They all sound interesting and fun. The problem is you can only have one....for now and maybe ever.

    The question is which idea gets the most votes. The devil you know vs. the one you don't, while certainly relevant in how voters may vote, isn't a disqualifying reason for removing something from a vote. Either your idea gets enough votes or it doesn't, you don't disqualify the most popular candidate because yours is losing. The whole argument sounds an awful lot like, "I'm not going to get the most votes, so I'm going to suggest it's unfair, but the reason it's unfair is the other team is winning." Being more popular is basically the dependent variable in a vote - IE it's circular to disqualify a side because it's more popular in a popularity contest, and the same logic supplied here can be applied ad infitum to create an "election" that can only supply your desired results.

    Personally I'd rather have off the grid, but if laundry wins because more people know it, then it wins. That's just how votes work.

    I never stated laundry shouldn't be made.

    On the contrary, I'm arguing the fan feedback makes it clear laundry should've been made by the SP team without the need for us to vote for it in the poll. It's as I said: tomorrow if the EP team had us vote on five different completely new EP concepts...except one of them isn't new and it's Seasons...? Yeah, dunno about you, but I'd be driving to the bank to pull out my savings and bet it all on Seasons winning.

    That they included laundry just diminishes the value of the poll and "ruins" an opportunity to give exposure to new ideas, instead giving us something we were already loud enough about to warrant it's production.

    If it loses the vote, then something else will be made because laundry didn't generate enough votes. That's the point of having the vote. Maybe it'll come in some future pack or maybe it won't, but it will not come in this one unless it wins.

    As I said:

    A.) If laundry is made after the fact, regardless of the vote, then it was rather moot to include it on the poll. What's the point if it was gonna be made anyways?

    B.) If laundry isn't made after the fact, they accidently gave false hope and additional hype to a game concept that ALREADY had sizeable support before this project was announced. This sours fan attitude when the fans of laundry can point out it had loads of support in this poll, loads of support both before and after, and yet it wasn't included. It'll spawn an attitude of "the Sims team doesn't listen," and I don't feel that would happen to the same degree if laundry just weren't included in the project.

    As someone said a page ago, laundry literally "cannot lose." The demand for laundry is going to be heard regardless of if it wins this poll or not.

    And yeah, I'd be willing to bet a handsome sum that the only candidate that has any potential of beating Laundry is the preserves, particularly because Nectar-Making enjoys the exact same advantage: it's a pre-existing feature. As I said, it would NOT be half as popular as it is now if that "Nectar Making" snippet were renamed "Jam Making," simply because Nectar Making evokes thoughts of Sims 3 and has people thinking they know exactly what to expect.
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • FreezerBunnyCowplantFreezerBunnyCowplant Posts: 3,901 Member
    edited June 2017
    Hope they will include Nectar Making and a Nectar Making 10-level skill in a Farming Game Pack. o:)
    It was a favorite of mine from World Adventures, I loved building nectar cellars!
    a256aFi.gif
  • MarnettiMarnetti Posts: 1,043 Member
    I see what the OP is saying, and I agree. I feel that they should've just made a laundry SP, and leave this whole voting process to something new and exciting that hasn't been in the Sims before. It wasn't a secret that laundry is in high demand. For crying out loud, there's a petition on it.
    ~I just like lifestates. Is that too much to ask for?~
    tumblr_p4xbgrS3wO1tltr42o1_500.gif
  • orkhid22orkhid22 Posts: 2,225 Member
    actually i agree 100% with the OP and Grahams response is just party line. many people chose this because they assumed laundry was a done deal. to have to now vote it in to existence is a bait and switch. i posted about this earlier this week, or possibly last week. personally i'm not married to laundry so i'm indifferent to the gameplay object (actually voted for the canning and stuff) but i know many ppl want laundry and have petitioned it since day 1
  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    orkhid22 wrote: »
    actually i agree 100% with the OP and Grahams response is just party line. many people chose this because they assumed laundry was a done deal. to have to now vote it in to existence is a bait and switch. i posted about this earlier this week, or possibly last week. personally i'm not married to laundry so i'm indifferent to the gameplay object (actually voted for the canning and stuff) but i know many ppl want laundry and have petitioned it since day 1
    I can sympathize if someone really badly wants laundry and ends up not getting it, but this process was *never* portrayed as a done deal type situation. It's not a bait and switch if some people misunderstood. A bait and switch would be if they said there's going to be a laundry pack and then didn't even include it in any votes, but they never said any such thing. Laundry was always a possibility, not a guarantee at all.

    As it is, it's not even decided yet...
    Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
  • chickenowchickenow Posts: 455 Member
    I love the concept of having a poll but I'm inclined to agree with the OP on a lot of the points. Laundry is an established Sims 3 feature and there have been so many posts on these forums requesting these. I would even go as far to say that I highly doubt that Eco Living would have won without the mention of laundry. Heck laundry could have arguably been fitted into the Starter house pack and that concept would have won.

    Honestly I'll be ok if laundry wins, I really do want to see laundry make an apperance. However I will be a little frustrated that a fresh and exciting idea such as Off the grid loses to a concept that was already in the players mind before this poll was created. Laundry would do very well in a separate SP or as a feature in a GP/EP whereas ideas such as Off the Grid/Recycling would be harder to fit in and more likely to end up discarded as "the fans didn't want it."

    That's not to say the poll is rigged or that any of the ideas are a "given." I genuinely think this poll is a brilliant idea and a true suggestion of the Sims team working with the fans.
  • AngelLoveAngelLove Posts: 1 New Member
    JUST GIVE ME LAUNDRY AND SEASONS!!! >:)
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    chickenow wrote: »

    That's not to say the poll is rigged or that any of the ideas are a "given." I genuinely think this poll is a brilliant idea and a true suggestion of the Sims team working with the fans.

    Right, not trying to take away from that. Made this thread moreso to state "if we do something like this again in the future, perhaps pre-existing concepts should be exempt from being candidates."
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • chickenowchickenow Posts: 455 Member
    chickenow wrote: »

    That's not to say the poll is rigged or that any of the ideas are a "given." I genuinely think this poll is a brilliant idea and a true suggestion of the Sims team working with the fans.

    Right, not trying to take away from that. Made this thread moreso to state "if we do something like this again in the future, perhaps pre-existing concepts should be exempt from being candidates."

    Totally agree with you. Polls are a brilliant way of testing the water on new concepts.

    On another note I suppose this poll makes a brilliant point on what the Sims Dev team are up against. It must be a difficult balance to try and focus on pushing out new content along with remaining concepts that were popular in previous Sims iterations.
  • PancakesandwichPancakesandwich Posts: 2,038 Member
    edited June 2017
    It's also noteworthy that in the original poll, eco-living was the first option. And the first entry in the potential features list was laundry.
    Now we've got the actual feature poll, and once again it's laundry as the first one. You basically can't read the question of the poll without already seeing Laundry right under it.

    It should've been last (right under canning), so that more people would possibly read through and consider the new ideas. As it is, I'm rather sure that there were people who just saw laundry and clicked on that one without reading the rest. And those who didn't like laundry were caught with canning and nectar making being next.

    Really, if the developers want to make a laundry pack so much, then why don't they just do it in a seperate SP and let eco-living be about actual eco-living?


    My prediction for the votes is as follows:
    Laundry: 60%
    Canning/Nectar Making: 25%
    Off The Grid: 10%
    Carbon-Friendly: 5%
    -> Yes, that's the exact order in which the options appeared. I'm predicting that it's going to be lower percentages the further you go away from the top of the page.
  • DeKayDeKay Posts: 80,181 Member
    edited June 2017
    [...]
    My prediction for the votes is as follows:
    Laundry: 60%
    Canning/Nectar Making: 25%
    Off The Grid: 10%
    Carbon-Friendly: 5%
    -> Yes, that's the exact order in which the options appeared. I'm predicting that it's going to be lower percentages the further you go away from the top of the page.

    So far from responses on this forum, people seem to vote for Off the Grid the most. I don't know about simmers outside of the forums, but I'm just using the forum users here as a sample size. XD
    My Top Song of the Day: Beautiful Lie by Hans Zimmer
    HwjsvU9.gif
  • SimsLovingMama1991SimsLovingMama1991 Posts: 8 New Member
    Personally I agree that laundry shouldnt be something we pay for if it was free in the past. Extra items for laundry maybe but not basics. Also I was frustrated to see ideas I would love to play with my Sims disappear. As far as the vote, I went for the canning because of the options, although I didnt understand why we couldnt have 2 gameplay options?? It would make more sense for this eco friendly pack to have the composting gameplay with the canning included, and then the off grid option. All 3 of those make sense for an eco friendly pack. Laundry is not eco friendly at all.

    The worst part is that all these exciting options we would love all of them to be implemented in the future and in the beginning it was hinted that these options would maybe be future gameplay. I think if that doesnt happen there will be alot of frustrated players like myself who expressed what we wanted and were basically thrown to the wayside. I loved the poll and it was fun. The voting system just doesnt really make sense on the gameplay options with the name of the pack and what it stands for. I would be happy to pay 20 for this game pack if you guys were willing to throw in the 3 gameplay options and I am sure lots of simmers would feel the same way. However we know that wont happen so we have to deal with being frustrated. Just means we love the game and playing it! We love the work you guys do and you do amazing!! We just got excited about the ideas and really want them now, thats all.
  • MeteoraStormMeteoraStorm Posts: 243 Member
    I for one do NOT want a 'Laundry' Stuff Pack, which is what this would be come to be known as. Boring gameplay, messy floors, uggghhh!!!

    I voted for 'Off the Grid' which is a truly Eco concept, as were the others in the vote.

    Laundry should not have been included - but bought in in another pack that I wouldn't bother to buy!! (well I probably would have, eventually, but only because I am a bit OCD about finishing collections :) )
  • ChampandGirlieChampandGirlie Posts: 2,289 Member
    It's also noteworthy that in the original poll, eco-living was the first option. And the first entry in the potential features list was laundry.
    Now we've got the actual feature poll, and once again it's laundry as the first one. You basically can't read the question of the poll without already seeing Laundry right under it.

    It should've been last (right under canning), so that more people would possibly read through and consider the new ideas. As it is, I'm rather sure that there were people who just saw laundry and clicked on that one without reading the rest. And those who didn't like laundry were caught with canning and nectar making being next.

    Really, if the developers want to make a laundry pack so much, then why don't they just do it in a seperate SP and let eco-living be about actual eco-living?


    My prediction for the votes is as follows:
    Laundry: 60%
    Canning/Nectar Making: 25%
    Off The Grid: 10%
    Carbon-Friendly: 5%
    -> Yes, that's the exact order in which the options appeared. I'm predicting that it's going to be lower percentages the further you go away from the top of the page.

    Don't worry about this part, it was noticed on Friday that the order in the poll is randomized for each voter. In my ballot, it was 3rd, and a lot of other people posted various orders in which things were listed in their ballots.
    Champ and Girlie are dogs.
  • ChazzzyChazzzy Posts: 7,166 Member
    edited June 2017
    I also came to the conclusion that themes for this community SP were all things that probably wouldn't be in the game otherwise and that's basically what's been said here. Soooo for all the things that will lose when the votes are tallied, we should not expect getting them any time soon.

    I'm really curious as to why the team has lumped laundry into the category of things they don't plan to add anytime soon. Why was it optional and included in this survey when it is so highly requested? People obviously want it so why not give the people what they want?

    I can only think of 5 popular things based on this community that an overwhelming amount of people wish would be added:
    - Laundry
    - Cars
    - New vacation spots
    - Burglars
    - Bunk beds

    Bunk beds were mentioned recently as being "too much work for a SP". Unless laundry wins we either won't be getting it anytime soon OR we will never get it. Maybe they have plans to add cars, burglars, and more vacations?

    Makes you wonder what other popular requested items will actually make it into the game.
  • SimburianSimburian Posts: 6,808 Member
    I wanted Laundry and did add my name to the list of people asking for it but when Off the Grid was offered I wanted that more so went for that option. I'm a bit annoyed that two favourites of mine are either/or options.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top