That name is familiar.
It's why all of these new threads are giving me deja vu.
As to the topic.
No, we don't need preschoolers, nor preteens.
We already have 4 young ages (babies, toddlers, children and teens), four ages before young adult.
What would be nice is to have four older ages, as in four past YA.
Adult, senior, elder, ancient. With only a few sims making it to ancient (aka 95+)
A senior (I really want to call them boomers, even though they'd be a bit younger than the ones irl) is someone who is past the age of having new babies, but not actually all that old yet, so about 50-70. They're the parents of your young adults/uni kids. Not all of them are grandparents, most of them are still working, but not quite ready to retire.
Then they hit elder, and want to downsize their life. They want to move into a smaller house/apartment, they want to see their grandkids on the weekend (and be able to hand them back at the end of the day!). They want to take naps in front of the tv/on a cruise ship. The more active ones want to potter in the garden, go fishing, or go for a gentle swim in a pool.
And then, if they live that long, they become ancient. Somewhat hunched/bent, a bit senile, but can tell the most interesting stories, and give advice that can really boost the skills of younger sims.
Why the plum are you guys bringing up all this plum about me being someone else on here or whatever? I don't want to deal with it because I am not them. I don't give a plum about whoever you think I am and stuff. Just quit and shut the plum up about it. I am so tired of it. I would commit suicide (for my account) instead of putting up this plum. I am so plum done with it. Yeah I'm cursing because you shove some plum plum lie in my face. All this plum stuff you claim is false.
I didn't bring it up.
Quit getting your knickers in a knot over such silly things.
All I'm saying about it, is that your posts are exacly like the posts of the person in quesion. Just just a little bit like them, exacly like them.
It's like you're clones or something. Different people can be exacly alike, it does happen.
Now, if you could reply to the rest of my post in a more civil manner, maybe you'll start to feel better. Go eat some chocolate or something.
Uh I deleted that. I had no idea why that happened. Look, could we quit it? I already had a brownie I made tonight.
No thanks, I'm not interested. Everything preteens could do, children should be able to do. Everything preschoolers could do, toddlers could do. Why can't children get first crushes? Why can't teens, who have nothing unique about them, go through puberty?
Not to mention the headache of creating brand-new animations just for these new, slightly taller children.
Everyone gets deja vu, hun. Doesn't mean its real. I don't want a mid age without toddlers and preteens. I don't know why people keep thinking middle age is needed but not preteens and preschoolers. Is this some sort of joke?
We already have toddlers, they don't need to be added. And preteens are a strange, unneeded concept.
But older ages are interesting. People change as they get older, and that is a part of what makes them so interesting.
Perhaps you need to hang out with a wider vaiety of people, of vaying ages, those preteens aren't doing you any good.
The human brain finishes developing in the mid 20's, but your personality doesn't stop there, life experiences as an adult change the way you look at the world, and change how you interact with it. People who have adult children are different to those with their first infant. People who have grandchildren are different again, those who never had any children age differently to those who do.
Most people, as they get older, mellow and take stress better, but at the same time, they have less tolerance for stupidity and time wasters.
Ask your parents how their world view has changed since they were your age, ask them how having kids has changed them. Talk to grand parents, aunts, uncles, anyone who is older than you.
No thanks, I'm not interested. Everything preteens could do, children should be able to do. Everything preschoolers could do, toddlers could do. Why can't children get first crushes? Why can't teens, who have nothing unique about them, go through puberty?
Not to mention the headache of creating brand-new animations just for these new, slightly taller children.
Crushes for children? Meh. Toddlers will never do the things preschoolers do. Why? Maxis never implanted those animations.
No thanks, I'm not interested. Everything preteens could do, children should be able to do. Everything preschoolers could do, toddlers could do. Why can't children get first crushes? Why can't teens, who have nothing unique about them, go through puberty?
Not to mention the headache of creating brand-new animations just for these new, slightly taller children.
Crushes for children? Meh. Toddlers will never do the things preschoolers do. Why? Maxis never implanted those animations.
So because toddlers don't have certain interactions, they need to create a brand-new age instead of just adding them in? Sure, makes sense.
Not to mention the headache of creating brand-new animations just for these new, slightly taller children.
That is probably a big part of what took toddlers so long to be added.
Redoing animations is a HUGE amount of work.
Adding another stage between adult and elder makes a lot more sense.
Everyone gets deja vu, hun. Doesn't mean its real. I don't want a mid age without toddlers and preteens. I don't know why people keep thinking middle age is needed but not preteens and preschoolers. Is this some sort of joke?
We already have toddlers, they don't need to be added. And preteens are a strange, unneeded concept.
But older ages are interesting. People change as they get older, and that is a part of what makes them so interesting.
Perhaps you need to hang out with a wider vaiety of people, of vaying ages, those preteens aren't doing you any good.
The human brain finishes developing in the mid 20's, but your personality doesn't stop there, life experiences as an adult change the way you look at the world, and change how you interact with it. People who have adult children are different to those with their first infant. People who have grandchildren are different again, those who never had any children age differently to those who do.
Most people, as they get older, mellow and take stress better, but at the same time, they have less tolerance for plum and time wasters.
Ask your parents how their world view has changed since they were your age, ask them how having kids has changed them. Talk to grand parents, aunts, uncles, anyone who is older than you.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name. Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that. And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family. I know a lot of older people but it is no different. No preteens or preschoolers, no middle age. All of these are no different from each other.
No thanks, I'm not interested. Everything preteens could do, children should be able to do. Everything preschoolers could do, toddlers could do. Why can't children get first crushes? Why can't teens, who have nothing unique about them, go through puberty?
Not to mention the headache of creating brand-new animations just for these new, slightly taller children.
Crushes for children? Meh. Toddlers will never do the things preschoolers do. Why? Maxis never implanted those animations.
So because toddlers don't have certain interactions, they need to create a brand-new age instead of just adding them in? Sure, makes sense.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name.
No. They're not. They'd look a little different, maybe even move a little different.
Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that.
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family.
In response to the topic title, I think most would agree that gradual aging is the ideal, if it can be done well (in other words, the more nuance in aging, the better). I don't think most need convincing on that point. But due to limited resources and the awareness of that, you're going to get people telling you that one life stage "isn't worth it" where another might be (and you may even be inclined to say that yourself about certain stages).
I believe virtually any life stage could feel worth it if the gameplay is there. It's just a question of the resources making it happen. I mean, you take a situation like toddlers in this game, where there are people who disliked them in previous iterations but enjoy them here, or never thought they would like them period and do. Making content that surprises people in that way is hard to do. It's also just worth noting that what people say they want or don't want is often based on preconceived notions about what it would look like or feel like.
The reality can make a hater into a fan and a fan into a hater. There's really no accounting for the gap between our imaginations and reality. Well... ok, there's some accounting for it; it's where the term "managing expectations" is born from.
If they can give enough differences to the life stages and are willing to properly include them in future packs, then they can add whatever life stages they want.
I don't see enough differences between kids, preteens, and teens to warrant a new life stage.
But I can see enough differences for an age between adult and elder. People don't go from being able to have kids to old enough to be a grandparent, like they do in Sims. They're raising their kids they had, focusing on their careers, going on trips for the ones who didn't have kids and focused on their careers during their younger days. They can have more career oriented whims and no child having whims. Sims could get a new trait at this point as well. A unique to this stage and older trait even.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name.
No. They're not. They'd look a little different, maybe even move a little different.
Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that.
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family.
And you don't know me.
All of these are no different from each other.
Only if your attention to others is lacking.
The kitty is really killing me So cute and fuzzy! I plan to get a cat one day! Anyway, toddlers weren't needed. Children and teens weren't needed. Right? Its not about needing it or not, its about how useful it could fill in these weird gaps between life stages.
First, we all start off as tiny infants newly or recently born
Second, grow into much older infants (almost a kid) learning to walk (or talk) called toddlers
Third, we become a preschooler or early grade schooler (K-3rd grade). We are taller (we all had a somewhat lanky build, some preschoolers or early grade schoolers have tubby builds), lose baby fat, can fully walk and talk. This is the age where we learn how to read (more advance than basic toddler books) or write.
Fourth, we become a slightly older elementary school aged child (mid elementary school aged child which is 3-5th grade). No different from a early elementary school aged child, just taller, older, and learn more harder things.
Fifth, we are no longer a young child. We are considered as a "preteen" or "tween" because we have a few more years before we're a teenager. We are growing out of childhood and beginning puberty (sometimes in the middle of puberty). A lot of preteens are also known as middle schoolers or junior highers (6th, still in elementary school, through 7-8th grade for preteens or early teenagers).
Sixth, we are teenagers. We developed the full appearance of an adult and go to high school. After high school, we apply for college.
This is the American style of aging and I fully support it. I know other countries have different view on school systems and aging.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name.
No. They're not. They'd look a little different, maybe even move a little different.
Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that.
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family.
And you don't know me.
All of these are no different from each other.
Only if your attention to others is lacking.
The kitty is really killing me So cute and fuzzy! I plan to get a cat one day! Anyway, toddlers weren't needed. Children and teens weren't needed. Right? Its not about needing it or not, its about how useful it could fill in these weird gaps between life stages.
First, we all start off as tiny infants newly or recently born
Second, grow into much older infants (almost a kid) learning to walk (or talk) called toddlers
Third, we become a preschooler or early grade schooler (K-3rd grade). We are taller (we all had a somewhat lanky build, some preschoolers or early grade schoolers have tubby builds), lose baby fat, can fully walk and talk. This is the age where we learn how to read (more advance than basic toddler books) or write.
Fourth, we become a slightly older elementary school aged child (mid elementary school aged child which is 3-5th grade). No different from a early elementary school aged child, just taller, older, and learn more harder things.
Fifth, we are no longer a young child. We are considered as a "preteen" or "tween" because we have a few more years before we're a teenager. We are growing out of childhood and beginning puberty (sometimes in the middle of puberty). A lot of preteens are also known as middle schoolers or junior highers (6th, still in elementary school, through 7-8th grade for preteens or early teenagers).
Sixth, we are teenagers. We developed the full appearance of an adult and go to high school. After high school, we apply for college.
This is the American style of aging and I fully support it. I know other countries have different view on school systems and aging.
This is a simulation of real life with non-realistic things added to it. Just because the US has those age divisions does not mean the game needs it.
Can you come up with an equally fleshed out life state with a number of noticeable differences that would effect day to day game play from the age above it and below it?
If the answer is no, then it doesn't need to be added.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name.
No. They're not. They'd look a little different, maybe even move a little different.
Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that.
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family.
And you don't know me.
All of these are no different from each other.
Only if your attention to others is lacking.
The kitty is really killing me So cute and fuzzy! I plan to get a cat one day! Anyway, toddlers weren't needed. Children and teens weren't needed. Right? Its not about needing it or not, its about how useful it could fill in these weird gaps between life stages.
First, we all start off as tiny infants newly or recently born
Second, grow into much older infants (almost a kid) learning to walk (or talk) called toddlers
Third, we become a preschooler or early grade schooler (K-3rd grade). We are taller (we all had a somewhat lanky build, some preschoolers or early grade schoolers have tubby builds), lose baby fat, can fully walk and talk. This is the age where we learn how to read (more advance than basic toddler books) or write.
Fourth, we become a slightly older elementary school aged child (mid elementary school aged child which is 3-5th grade). No different from a early elementary school aged child, just taller, older, and learn more harder things.
Fifth, we are no longer a young child. We are considered as a "preteen" or "tween" because we have a few more years before we're a teenager. We are growing out of childhood and beginning puberty (sometimes in the middle of puberty). A lot of preteens are also known as middle schoolers or junior highers (6th, still in elementary school, through 7-8th grade for preteens or early teenagers).
Sixth, we are teenagers. We developed the full appearance of an adult and go to high school. After high school, we apply for college.
This is the American style of aging and I fully support it. I know other countries have different view on school systems and aging.
This is a simulation of real life with non-realistic things added to it. Just because the US has those age divisions does not mean the game needs it.
Can you come up with an equally fleshed out life state with a number of noticeable differences that would effect day to day game play from the age above it and below it?
If the answer is no, then it doesn't need to be added.
Sims 4 is an AMERICAN game. How do we Americans supposed to know how foreigners define their aging? The American devs can add whatever they want to this game.
America:
Baby (Newborn)
Toddler
Preschooler
Child
Preteen
Teen
Young Adult
Adult
Elder
Other countries:
Infancy
(Maybe toddlerhood)
Childhood
Adolescence
Adulthood (Including young adult and middle age)
Elder
I am having such a hard time with non-Americans' way of "aging". Its bland and not even deep...This is not (showing) proper human development IMO. Who goes from a baby to a giant (not an actual giant child, in babies point of perspective) child? Nobody wants a preschooler or preteen life stage but a mid age which we already have (adults)? This isn't working out for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I sugguest Maxis stick with American style of modern aging (lolz) than traditional (international).
How do we Americans supposed to know how foreigners define their aging?
you expect us to know all your terms, so why shouldn't we expect you to know all of ours?
America:
Baby (Newborn)
Toddler
Preschooler
Child
Preteen
Teen
Young Adult
Adult
Elder
Apparently america doesn't have middle age adults. Never heard of a cougar? I mean, you have a whole tv show about them, yet you don't count their age group? You're quite the oddball
Other countries:
Infancy
(Maybe toddlerhood)
Childhood
Adolescence
Adulthood (Including young adult and middle age)
Elder
Stay in school. Cos you know nothing.
Most of the world seems to have:
Neonate
Infant
Toddler (if you're under school age, you're usually classed as a toddler. Most kids start school between the age of 5 and 7)
School age child
Teenager (13-17)
Young Adult (aka uni age, this is 18+, since in most of the world, you are an adult at 18)
Adult
Mature adult/middle age
Older adult/senior citizen
Elder adult (aka folk 75+)
Really old adult (95+)
REALLY REALLY old folk (100+) (They get a letter from the Queen when they turn 100, if they're in a commonwealth country)
I am having such a hard time with non-Americans' way of "aging".
You're only having a hard time, because you are willfully ignorant.
The developers aren't going to waste time on a bunch of new ages for this incarnation of the game. They already spent a lot of time and energy on toddlers, they're now focused on other stuff, not more life stages. I've heard pets are coming, that's going to bring a whole bunch of new animations.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name.
No. They're not. They'd look a little different, maybe even move a little different.
Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that.
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family.
And you don't know me.
All of these are no different from each other.
Only if your attention to others is lacking.
The kitty is really killing me So cute and fuzzy! I plan to get a cat one day! Anyway, toddlers weren't needed. Children and teens weren't needed. Right? Its not about needing it or not, its about how useful it could fill in these weird gaps between life stages.
First, we all start off as tiny infants newly or recently born
Second, grow into much older infants (almost a kid) learning to walk (or talk) called toddlers
Third, we become a preschooler or early grade schooler (K-3rd grade). We are taller (we all had a somewhat lanky build, some preschoolers or early grade schoolers have tubby builds), lose baby fat, can fully walk and talk. This is the age where we learn how to read (more advance than basic toddler books) or write.
Fourth, we become a slightly older elementary school aged child (mid elementary school aged child which is 3-5th grade). No different from a early elementary school aged child, just taller, older, and learn more harder things.
Fifth, we are no longer a young child. We are considered as a "preteen" or "tween" because we have a few more years before we're a teenager. We are growing out of childhood and beginning puberty (sometimes in the middle of puberty). A lot of preteens are also known as middle schoolers or junior highers (6th, still in elementary school, through 7-8th grade for preteens or early teenagers).
Sixth, we are teenagers. We developed the full appearance of an adult and go to high school. After high school, we apply for college.
This is the American style of aging and I fully support it. I know other countries have different view on school systems and aging.
This is a simulation of real life with non-realistic things added to it. Just because the US has those age divisions does not mean the game needs it.
Can you come up with an equally fleshed out life state with a number of noticeable differences that would effect day to day game play from the age above it and below it?
If the answer is no, then it doesn't need to be added.
Sims 4 is an AMERICAN game. How do we Americans supposed to know how foreigners define their aging? The American devs can add whatever they want to this game.
America:
Baby (Newborn)
Toddler
Preschooler
Child
Preteen
Teen
Young Adult
Adult
Elder
Other countries:
Infancy
(Maybe toddlerhood)
Childhood
Adolescence
Adulthood (Including young adult and middle age)
Elder
I am having such a hard time with non-Americans' way of "aging". Its bland and not even deep...This is not (showing) proper human development IMO. Who goes from a baby to a giant (not an actual giant child, in babies point of perspective) child? Nobody wants a preschooler or preteen life stage but a mid age which we already have (adults)? This isn't working out for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I sugguest Maxis stick with American style of modern aging (lolz) than traditional (international).
Oh. My. God.
The world ( and every country in it) is full of "humans" and all those humans age and develop the same way no matter where they are born.
And get off it. The Sims isn't just an American game. It's a LIFE game. They are more-so now than ever, bringing in influences from the whole world....which is a good thing.
Here's the thing with this request - it's pretty much impossible with the way the game code is written deep down at its core.
Right now, the game uses a single byte (8 bit) variable to determine age. It looks kinda like this:
Binary value 00000001 - Decimal Value 1 - Baby
Binary value 00000010 - Decimal Value 2 - Toddler
Binary value 00000100 - Decimal Value 4 - Child
Binary value 00001000 - Decimal Value 8 - Teen
Binary value 00010000 - Decimal Value 16 - Young Adult
Binary value 00100000 - Decimal Value 32 - Adult
Binary value 01000000 - Decimal Value 64 - Elder
Usually, the front bit there, called the parity bit, is used for data control/corruption, which I assume is the case here (if not, there's room for one extra age category, but that would be the hard limit). So as you can see, there's no more room in the variable to add additional options. You can't just go 00000011 (3) because that would tell the computer "Both Baby and Toddler".
The only way to add new life stages would be to change to a 16-bit variable, and that's so deep and fundamental to the code that just making that one change would pretty much mean it's time to start writing Sims 5.
Now, if there's any EA developers reading this, it would be a worthy change to do for Sims 5 if for no other reason than to allow modders to code in additional life stages if we so chose. I think it's safe to say that making a 2 byte variable isn't going to clutter up the program too much, at worst it'll add what, 250 MB to the final data size and a little extra processor time? Modern computers can handle that easy.
Hey new members! Wondering where the "create discussion" button is? Turns out you need 30 posts and 50 points (points come from people reacting to your posts) in order to start your own discussions. Head to the welcome categories and post away and you should get there in a day or so.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name.
No. They're not. They'd look a little different, maybe even move a little different.
Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that.
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family.
And you don't know me.
All of these are no different from each other.
Only if your attention to others is lacking.
The kitty is really killing me So cute and fuzzy! I plan to get a cat one day! Anyway, toddlers weren't needed. Children and teens weren't needed. Right? Its not about needing it or not, its about how useful it could fill in these weird gaps between life stages.
First, we all start off as tiny infants newly or recently born
Second, grow into much older infants (almost a kid) learning to walk (or talk) called toddlers
Third, we become a preschooler or early grade schooler (K-3rd grade). We are taller (we all had a somewhat lanky build, some preschoolers or early grade schoolers have tubby builds), lose baby fat, can fully walk and talk. This is the age where we learn how to read (more advance than basic toddler books) or write.
Fourth, we become a slightly older elementary school aged child (mid elementary school aged child which is 3-5th grade). No different from a early elementary school aged child, just taller, older, and learn more harder things.
Fifth, we are no longer a young child. We are considered as a "preteen" or "tween" because we have a few more years before we're a teenager. We are growing out of childhood and beginning puberty (sometimes in the middle of puberty). A lot of preteens are also known as middle schoolers or junior highers (6th, still in elementary school, through 7-8th grade for preteens or early teenagers).
Sixth, we are teenagers. We developed the full appearance of an adult and go to high school. After high school, we apply for college.
This is the American style of aging and I fully support it. I know other countries have different view on school systems and aging.
This is a simulation of real life with non-realistic things added to it. Just because the US has those age divisions does not mean the game needs it.
Can you come up with an equally fleshed out life state with a number of noticeable differences that would effect day to day game play from the age above it and below it?
If the answer is no, then it doesn't need to be added.
Sims 4 is an AMERICAN game. How do we Americans supposed to know how foreigners define their aging? The American devs can add whatever they want to this game.
America:
Baby (Newborn)
Toddler
Preschooler
Child
Preteen
Teen
Young Adult
Adult
Elder
Other countries:
Infancy
(Maybe toddlerhood)
Childhood
Adolescence
Adulthood (Including young adult and middle age)
Elder
I am having such a hard time with non-Americans' way of "aging". Its bland and not even deep...This is not (showing) proper human development IMO. Who goes from a baby to a giant (not an actual giant child, in babies point of perspective) child? Nobody wants a preschooler or preteen life stage but a mid age which we already have (adults)? This isn't working out for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I sugguest Maxis stick with American style of modern aging (lolz) than traditional (international).
You missed my point all together. So let me reword that: just because a country defines x number of ages, doesn't mean the game needs x number of games. This game is a simulation with unrealistic parts so you can't say that just because of realism they should add it.
And again, I will ask if you can come up with a fleshed out details for the stages you say should be added to make them definitely unique.
Here's the thing with this request - it's pretty much impossible with the way the game code is written deep down at its core.
Right now, the game uses a single byte (8 bit) variable to determine age. It looks kinda like this:
Binary value 00000001 - Decimal Value 1 - Baby
Binary value 00000010 - Decimal Value 2 - Toddler
Binary value 00000100 - Decimal Value 4 - Child
Binary value 00001000 - Decimal Value 8 - Teen
Binary value 00010000 - Decimal Value 16 - Young Adult
Binary value 00100000 - Decimal Value 32 - Adult
Binary value 01000000 - Decimal Value 64 - Elder
Usually, the front bit there, called the parity bit, is used for data control/corruption, which I assume is the case here (if not, there's room for one extra age category, but that would be the hard limit). So as you can see, there's no more room in the variable to add additional options. You can't just go 00000011 (3) because that would tell the computer "Both Baby and Toddler".
The only way to add new life stages would be to change to a 16-bit variable, and that's so deep and fundamental to the code that just making that one change would pretty much mean it's time to start writing Sims 5.
Now, if there's any EA developers reading this, it would be a worthy change to do for Sims 5 if for no other reason than to allow modders to code in additional life stages if we so chose. I think it's safe to say that making a 2 byte variable isn't going to clutter up the program too much, at worst it'll add what, 250 MB to the final data size and a little extra processor time? Modern computers can handle that easy.
Where you are getting this information?
Is this one of those artifacts of outdated coding practices or something? My knowledge of OOP is limited, but I'm finding it hard to believe they would restrict themselves in such a way.
This must be one of those OOP things I never fully wrapped my head around because I remember nothing of variables that can only be a certain number of options because of bits.
You know what's really crazy?
Literally the night before this thread was posted, I went to the bathroom at the stroke of midnight, and said "TayTayGee" 3 times in front of the mirror.
No idea why I brought that up. I just thought it was interesting.
Is this one of those artifacts of outdated coding practices or something? My knowledge of OOP is limited, but I'm finding it hard to believe they would restrict themselves in such a way.
This must be one of those OOP things I never fully wrapped my head around because I remember nothing of variables that can only be a certain number of options because of bits.
I'm a modder. It's in the tuning files pretty much everywhere. It's not an OOP concept, it goes back to a best practices IPL concept, like Fortran. They've been doing age that way since Sims 2, as far as I know personally, and probably back in Sims 1 also. My guess would be that one of the original programmers was skilled in that kind of programming and just passed the practice down internally, and/or the current team just hasn't seen a reason to alter it.
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Is this one of those artifacts of outdated coding practices or something? My knowledge of OOP is limited, but I'm finding it hard to believe they would restrict themselves in such a way.
This must be one of those OOP things I never fully wrapped my head around because I remember nothing of variables that can only be a certain number of options because of bits.
I'm a modder. It's in the tuning files pretty much everywhere. It's not an OOP concept, it goes back to a best practices IPL concept, like Fortran. They've been doing age that way since Sims 2, as far as I know personally, and probably back in Sims 1 also. My guess would be that one of the original programmers was skilled in that kind of programming and just passed the practice down internally, and/or the current team just hasn't seen a reason to alter it.
No prob. For what it's worth, I really do think it should be made possible. And I guess I'm not 100% sure it's completely impossible, it could be that they're just using the old hierarchy as a matter of habit and that technically there is no upper limit anymore. But what that would mean in terms of adding a new age category would be phenomenally prohibitive because there's a lot of code that relies on the underlying math of it all.
Like here's one small example. In the file that handles the basics for aliens and vampires (sims.occult.occult_tracker), there's this line of code dealing with the Vampire UI:
<E n="min_age_for_occult_ui">TEEN</E>
And each tuning file (written in XML) comes with a Simdata file (written more like a raw data compiler, because apparently the underlying engine is a half-Python, half-C++ hybrid for some reason). In the Simdata file, which has to match to keep the game in sync and not buggy, that line looks like this:
<T name="min_age_for_occult_ui">8</T>
So for one of my mods, I've made the age at which a person manifests vampire powers earlier, to happen in the child stage rather than the teen stage. Pretty easy change for this file: I just changed the word TEEN to CHILD, and changed the 8 to a 4. Now, the C++ code is hidden from us modders, it can't be decompiled, but I imagine in there somewhere is a math equation: If X >= the number I set there, Vampire UI. If X < that number, No Vampire UI. Wham, suddenly with my mod children in the game have Vampire Energy and thirst needs (oddly, they don't have the XP bar yet - that must be somewhere in the python code where I can't see it. That's actually what I'm doing on this forum - trying to earn the "member" title so I can ask the devs about how they call that UI script with Python).
Now imagine we wanted to add a preteen age to the game. For a lot of the game, we could just put that stage at the end (giving it an ID of 256) and then program the game to age from 4 (child) to 256 (preteen) and then back to 8 (teen). That's doable, assuming the game will take 256 without messing up some kind of parity bit. But for several sections of the game, where the computer relies on math to know what's acceptable (say for example if Woohoo was allowed for variables of 8+), then the preteen category would pass a test like that. Putting the social taboo aside, it's simply not a change we wanted to make by design, and there's probably a few dozen of those. So we'd have to change the variables entirely - we'd have to make Preteen = 8, Teen = 16, YA = 32, and so on and so forth. That would mean altering 95% of the files in the game, including a lot of python scripts (which most modders, including myself, aren't proficient in doing), and saying a few prayers about whether there's anything in the deep C++ code (which we can't change and bluntly, there's a slight possibility the current EA team can't either - I'm kinda thinking the reason they use hybrid code might be because no one on the current team knows or can alter those original files and it's just easier to use them than rewrite everything from scratch) that would conflict with what we're doing.
And then, of course, every single game update would be 99.9% guaranteed to break a mod like that, which is why you don't see anyone in the modding community tackling it.
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@jerrycnh
The whole point of defining it in the Age class like they've done in the Python side is precisely so they don't have to rewrite everything if they change it. I'm fairly sure they aren't making hard-coded comparisons with the numbers on the C++ side either (though of course we can't be certain of that). They won't change the XML/Data/etc by hand either, they would most likely change the tool that generate them.
It would most likely break all existing CCs though, but then that's pretty much what it did when they introduced Aliens and occults too. When it's just some batch operation on all CC, the community is usually rather quick to react.
The SimData are used for the UI in ActiveScript. The DTESC have the info about what needs to be in the SimData.
Comments
Uh I deleted that. I had no idea why that happened. Look, could we quit it? I already had a brownie I made tonight.
Not to mention the headache of creating brand-new animations just for these new, slightly taller children.
But older ages are interesting. People change as they get older, and that is a part of what makes them so interesting.
Perhaps you need to hang out with a wider vaiety of people, of vaying ages, those preteens aren't doing you any good.
The human brain finishes developing in the mid 20's, but your personality doesn't stop there, life experiences as an adult change the way you look at the world, and change how you interact with it. People who have adult children are different to those with their first infant. People who have grandchildren are different again, those who never had any children age differently to those who do.
Most people, as they get older, mellow and take stress better, but at the same time, they have less tolerance for stupidity and time wasters.
Ask your parents how their world view has changed since they were your age, ask them how having kids has changed them. Talk to grand parents, aunts, uncles, anyone who is older than you.
Crushes for children? Meh. Toddlers will never do the things preschoolers do. Why? Maxis never implanted those animations.
So because toddlers don't have certain interactions, they need to create a brand-new age instead of just adding them in? Sure, makes sense.
Redoing animations is a HUGE amount of work.
Adding another stage between adult and elder makes a lot more sense.
Why do we need a mid age when we already have adults? They are basically middle aged under a different name. Why are preteens a strange and unneeded concept? I 100% disagree with that. And you don't know me in real life so you can't say who I need to hang out with or what kind of people I hanged out with. If you knew me personally, you would of actually known. I barely even see my family. I know a lot of older people but it is no different. No preteens or preschoolers, no middle age. All of these are no different from each other.
Pretty much?
Of course you do.
They're unneeded, because they are not needed.
No extra lifestages are needed, what we have is plenty.
But I would like one added between adults and elders.
And you don't know me.
Only if your attention to others is lacking.
I believe virtually any life stage could feel worth it if the gameplay is there. It's just a question of the resources making it happen. I mean, you take a situation like toddlers in this game, where there are people who disliked them in previous iterations but enjoy them here, or never thought they would like them period and do. Making content that surprises people in that way is hard to do. It's also just worth noting that what people say they want or don't want is often based on preconceived notions about what it would look like or feel like.
The reality can make a hater into a fan and a fan into a hater. There's really no accounting for the gap between our imaginations and reality. Well... ok, there's some accounting for it; it's where the term "managing expectations" is born from.
I don't see enough differences between kids, preteens, and teens to warrant a new life stage.
But I can see enough differences for an age between adult and elder. People don't go from being able to have kids to old enough to be a grandparent, like they do in Sims. They're raising their kids they had, focusing on their careers, going on trips for the ones who didn't have kids and focused on their careers during their younger days. They can have more career oriented whims and no child having whims. Sims could get a new trait at this point as well. A unique to this stage and older trait even.
The kitty is really killing me
First, we all start off as tiny infants newly or recently born
Second, grow into much older infants (almost a kid) learning to walk (or talk) called toddlers
Third, we become a preschooler or early grade schooler (K-3rd grade). We are taller (we all had a somewhat lanky build, some preschoolers or early grade schoolers have tubby builds), lose baby fat, can fully walk and talk. This is the age where we learn how to read (more advance than basic toddler books) or write.
Fourth, we become a slightly older elementary school aged child (mid elementary school aged child which is 3-5th grade). No different from a early elementary school aged child, just taller, older, and learn more harder things.
Fifth, we are no longer a young child. We are considered as a "preteen" or "tween" because we have a few more years before we're a teenager. We are growing out of childhood and beginning puberty (sometimes in the middle of puberty). A lot of preteens are also known as middle schoolers or junior highers (6th, still in elementary school, through 7-8th grade for preteens or early teenagers).
Sixth, we are teenagers. We developed the full appearance of an adult and go to high school. After high school, we apply for college.
This is the American style of aging and I fully support it. I know other countries have different view on school systems and aging.
This is a simulation of real life with non-realistic things added to it. Just because the US has those age divisions does not mean the game needs it.
Can you come up with an equally fleshed out life state with a number of noticeable differences that would effect day to day game play from the age above it and below it?
If the answer is no, then it doesn't need to be added.
Sims 4 is an AMERICAN game. How do we Americans supposed to know how foreigners define their aging? The American devs can add whatever they want to this game.
America:
Baby (Newborn)
Toddler
Preschooler
Child
Preteen
Teen
Young Adult
Adult
Elder
Other countries:
Infancy
(Maybe toddlerhood)
Childhood
Adolescence
Adulthood (Including young adult and middle age)
Elder
I am having such a hard time with non-Americans' way of "aging". Its bland and not even deep...This is not (showing) proper human development IMO. Who goes from a baby to a giant (not an actual giant child, in babies point of perspective) child? Nobody wants a preschooler or preteen life stage but a mid age which we already have (adults)? This isn't working out for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. I sugguest Maxis stick with American style of modern aging (lolz) than traditional (international).
Apparently america doesn't have middle age adults. Never heard of a cougar? I mean, you have a whole tv show about them, yet you don't count their age group? You're quite the oddball
Stay in school. Cos you know nothing.
Most of the world seems to have:
Neonate
Infant
Toddler (if you're under school age, you're usually classed as a toddler. Most kids start school between the age of 5 and 7)
School age child
Teenager (13-17)
Young Adult (aka uni age, this is 18+, since in most of the world, you are an adult at 18)
Adult
Mature adult/middle age
Older adult/senior citizen
Elder adult (aka folk 75+)
Really old adult (95+)
REALLY REALLY old folk (100+) (They get a letter from the Queen when they turn 100, if they're in a commonwealth country)
You're only having a hard time, because you are willfully ignorant.
The developers aren't going to waste time on a bunch of new ages for this incarnation of the game. They already spent a lot of time and energy on toddlers, they're now focused on other stuff, not more life stages. I've heard pets are coming, that's going to bring a whole bunch of new animations.
Perhaps you'll get your wishes if they make TS5.
Oh. My. God.
The world ( and every country in it) is full of "humans" and all those humans age and develop the same way no matter where they are born.
And get off it. The Sims isn't just an American game. It's a LIFE game. They are more-so now than ever, bringing in influences from the whole world....which is a good thing.
The day it makes it the priority playstyle is the day I quit it.
Right now, the game uses a single byte (8 bit) variable to determine age. It looks kinda like this:
Binary value 00000001 - Decimal Value 1 - Baby
Binary value 00000010 - Decimal Value 2 - Toddler
Binary value 00000100 - Decimal Value 4 - Child
Binary value 00001000 - Decimal Value 8 - Teen
Binary value 00010000 - Decimal Value 16 - Young Adult
Binary value 00100000 - Decimal Value 32 - Adult
Binary value 01000000 - Decimal Value 64 - Elder
Usually, the front bit there, called the parity bit, is used for data control/corruption, which I assume is the case here (if not, there's room for one extra age category, but that would be the hard limit). So as you can see, there's no more room in the variable to add additional options. You can't just go 00000011 (3) because that would tell the computer "Both Baby and Toddler".
The only way to add new life stages would be to change to a 16-bit variable, and that's so deep and fundamental to the code that just making that one change would pretty much mean it's time to start writing Sims 5.
Now, if there's any EA developers reading this, it would be a worthy change to do for Sims 5 if for no other reason than to allow modders to code in additional life stages if we so chose.
You missed my point all together. So let me reword that: just because a country defines x number of ages, doesn't mean the game needs x number of games. This game is a simulation with unrealistic parts so you can't say that just because of realism they should add it.
And again, I will ask if you can come up with a fleshed out details for the stages you say should be added to make them definitely unique.
Is this one of those artifacts of outdated coding practices or something? My knowledge of OOP is limited, but I'm finding it hard to believe they would restrict themselves in such a way.
This must be one of those OOP things I never fully wrapped my head around because I remember nothing of variables that can only be a certain number of options because of bits.
Literally the night before this thread was posted, I went to the bathroom at the stroke of midnight, and said "TayTayGee" 3 times in front of the mirror.
No idea why I brought that up. I just thought it was interesting.
I'm a modder. It's in the tuning files pretty much everywhere. It's not an OOP concept, it goes back to a best practices IPL concept, like Fortran. They've been doing age that way since Sims 2, as far as I know personally, and probably back in Sims 1 also. My guess would be that one of the original programmers was skilled in that kind of programming and just passed the practice down internally, and/or the current team just hasn't seen a reason to alter it.
No prob. For what it's worth, I really do think it should be made possible. And I guess I'm not 100% sure it's completely impossible, it could be that they're just using the old hierarchy as a matter of habit and that technically there is no upper limit anymore. But what that would mean in terms of adding a new age category would be phenomenally prohibitive because there's a lot of code that relies on the underlying math of it all.
Like here's one small example. In the file that handles the basics for aliens and vampires (sims.occult.occult_tracker), there's this line of code dealing with the Vampire UI:
<E n="min_age_for_occult_ui">TEEN</E>
And each tuning file (written in XML) comes with a Simdata file (written more like a raw data compiler, because apparently the underlying engine is a half-Python, half-C++ hybrid for some reason). In the Simdata file, which has to match to keep the game in sync and not buggy, that line looks like this:
<T name="min_age_for_occult_ui">8</T>
So for one of my mods, I've made the age at which a person manifests vampire powers earlier, to happen in the child stage rather than the teen stage. Pretty easy change for this file: I just changed the word TEEN to CHILD, and changed the 8 to a 4. Now, the C++ code is hidden from us modders, it can't be decompiled, but I imagine in there somewhere is a math equation: If X >= the number I set there, Vampire UI. If X < that number, No Vampire UI. Wham, suddenly with my mod children in the game have Vampire Energy and thirst needs (oddly, they don't have the XP bar yet - that must be somewhere in the python code where I can't see it. That's actually what I'm doing on this forum - trying to earn the "member" title so I can ask the devs about how they call that UI script with Python).
Now imagine we wanted to add a preteen age to the game. For a lot of the game, we could just put that stage at the end (giving it an ID of 256) and then program the game to age from 4 (child) to 256 (preteen) and then back to 8 (teen). That's doable, assuming the game will take 256 without messing up some kind of parity bit. But for several sections of the game, where the computer relies on math to know what's acceptable (say for example if Woohoo was allowed for variables of 8+), then the preteen category would pass a test like that. Putting the social taboo aside, it's simply not a change we wanted to make by design, and there's probably a few dozen of those. So we'd have to change the variables entirely - we'd have to make Preteen = 8, Teen = 16, YA = 32, and so on and so forth. That would mean altering 95% of the files in the game, including a lot of python scripts (which most modders, including myself, aren't proficient in doing), and saying a few prayers about whether there's anything in the deep C++ code (which we can't change and bluntly, there's a slight possibility the current EA team can't either - I'm kinda thinking the reason they use hybrid code might be because no one on the current team knows or can alter those original files and it's just easier to use them than rewrite everything from scratch) that would conflict with what we're doing.
And then, of course, every single game update would be 99.9% guaranteed to break a mod like that, which is why you don't see anyone in the modding community tackling it.
The whole point of defining it in the Age class like they've done in the Python side is precisely so they don't have to rewrite everything if they change it. I'm fairly sure they aren't making hard-coded comparisons with the numbers on the C++ side either (though of course we can't be certain of that). They won't change the XML/Data/etc by hand either, they would most likely change the tool that generate them.
It would most likely break all existing CCs though, but then that's pretty much what it did when they introduced Aliens and occults too. When it's just some batch operation on all CC, the community is usually rather quick to react.
The SimData are used for the UI in ActiveScript. The DTESC have the info about what needs to be in the SimData.