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    RipuAncestorRipuAncestor Posts: 2,332 Member
    I tried that 500 letters -thing, and it was fun, but I didn't really get anything that I thought really fit me even after several tries. It kept either saying stuff like my work is incredibly beautiful (which to me sounded uncomfortably smug to say about my own work) or that I try to objectify emotions, which I really don't try... I try to give different points of view about emotions and present them as subjective them, mostly. Then again, "try" is the keyword here. Anyway, it's babble, but it was pretty fun babble, like I said. It's also been interesting to read the texts you got out of them. I feel like a lot of them do match your styles in many ways.
    doublebannerpic.jpg?w=676
    My Sims stories:
    The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
    The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
    Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
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    CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,089 Member
    I tried that 500 letters -thing, and it was fun, but I didn't really get anything that I thought really fit me even after several tries. It kept either saying stuff like my work is incredibly beautiful (which to me sounded uncomfortably smug to say about my own work) or that I try to objectify emotions, which I really don't try... I try to give different points of view about emotions and present them as subjective them, mostly. Then again, "try" is the keyword here. Anyway, it's babble, but it was pretty fun babble, like I said. It's also been interesting to read the texts you got out of them. I feel like a lot of them do match your styles in many ways.

    But your writing, stories, characters, plots, themes , and visuals ARE incredibly beautiful ! :)

    And if you think of "objectify" as "turning into an object", ie character or symbol , then that sort of fits , too!

    But, yeah . ... it's like a cut and paste astrology program or online tarot app : vague, abstract , and general enough to apply to anyone , and pithy enough to make for a useful scrying tool .
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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    InfraGreenInfraGreen Posts: 6,693 Member
    edited January 2017
    I tried that 500 letters -thing, and it was fun, but I didn't really get anything that I thought really fit me even after several tries. It kept either saying stuff like my work is incredibly beautiful (which to me sounded uncomfortably smug to say about my own work) or that I try to objectify emotions, which I really don't try... I try to give different points of view about emotions and present them as subjective them, mostly. Then again, "try" is the keyword here. Anyway, it's babble, but it was pretty fun babble, like I said. It's also been interesting to read the texts you got out of them. I feel like a lot of them do match your styles in many ways.

    @RipuAncestor: I felt the same way. And I noped out with the main themes. I don't know those words! I just write vulgar fiction. :p

    But @CathyTea is right too. It's just a fun machine and we're beautiful and deep in ways that it just won't understand.

    ---

    I also still want to weigh in on objectifying/female gaze/etc. late (what else is new!). I'll see if I can.
    A thousand bared teeth, a thousand bowed heads

    outrun / blog / tunglr
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    RipuAncestorRipuAncestor Posts: 2,332 Member
    CathyTea wrote: »
    I tried that 500 letters -thing, and it was fun, but I didn't really get anything that I thought really fit me even after several tries. It kept either saying stuff like my work is incredibly beautiful (which to me sounded uncomfortably smug to say about my own work) or that I try to objectify emotions, which I really don't try... I try to give different points of view about emotions and present them as subjective them, mostly. Then again, "try" is the keyword here. Anyway, it's babble, but it was pretty fun babble, like I said. It's also been interesting to read the texts you got out of them. I feel like a lot of them do match your styles in many ways.

    But your writing, stories, characters, plots, themes , and visuals ARE incredibly beautiful ! :)

    And if you think of "objectify" as "turning into an object", ie character or symbol , then that sort of fits , too!
    Thank you! :blush: Also yeah, you do have a point about "objectifying" in that sense. Speaking of making emotions/concepts into characters, here's a chapter of "objectified" emotions/concepts talking :lol::

    Chapter 31: Break. Connection.
    VGJX6u5.jpg

    Tad takes a break and tries to make a friend. It works. Maybe.

    Have a lovely time everyone!
    doublebannerpic.jpg?w=676
    My Sims stories:
    The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
    The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
    Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
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    MedleyMistyMedleyMisty Posts: 1,188 Member
    edited January 2017
    @RipuAncestor @InfraGreen @CathyTea

    I get where you're all coming from.

    Stuff like the form for the 500 words thing always bothers me. Because I've noticed that most quizzes and tests online have a lot of assumptions in their text, and in the way that they limit possible responses.

    Like so often I am doing a quiz or a test and I'm like "What if I don't like any of these choices?" or "What if I agree with only part of this possible answer but your form is forcing me to give the impression that I agree with all of it?" Or if the quiz is about beliefs and philosophies, so often my answer is "But what if I reject the entire system behind all of the possible answers you've given me and so clicking on any of these circles would be forcing a result that would not show my true values?"

    Also on a lot of them it's very apparent how to game it to get certain results, because they're not exactly subtle about which answers go with which results.

    But I do also get how looking into a vague general abstraction can be a good source of thought and insight, in seeing how you react to it and what bits fit and what bits don't.

    It can also be a good source of divining the system that the person who made the quiz is operating in. The limits in popular mainstream internet tests can show you the limits of popular mainstream culture.

    For instance, I did not see writing as a choice of medium. And like @InfraGreen noted, the choice of words to describe your work showed a distinct idea of what themes are considered art. The quiz definitely had a postmodern academic bent. If writing had been included, I imagine the author would have only had the sort of writing that shows up in upper middle class literary journals in mind.

    I propose that whoever wants to should write their own 500 words about their own work.
    Sometimes the darkness and I tell stories.
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    CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,089 Member
    We could also write 500 words for each other! :)
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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    MedleyMistyMedleyMisty Posts: 1,188 Member
    CathyTea wrote: »
    We could also write 500 words for each other! :)

    Well, of course! :)
    Sometimes the darkness and I tell stories.
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    rednenemonrednenemon Posts: 3,206 Member
    CathyTea wrote: »
    We could also write 500 words for each other! :)

    Well, of course! :)

    I wouldn't know where to begin with writing 500 words for anyone.

    Mainly since when I went to see for myself, I realized I don't even know what to choose for any of it. :(
    AO3: Silver_Shortage_in_Markarth <(Where I'm usually at nowadays)
    MQ2gUyY.jpg
    Part One(Complete 9/24/16) /Part Two(on hold)/Short Stories(on hold)/Twinbrook 1996(on hold)/Ten Crystal Hearts (on hold)
    I own the TS3 Store as of 12/11/16 (sort of. It's complicated)
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    CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,089 Member
    rednenemon wrote: »
    CathyTea wrote: »
    We could also write 500 words for each other! :)

    Well, of course! :)

    I wouldn't know where to begin with writing 500 words for anyone.

    Mainly since when I went to see for myself, I realized I don't even know what to choose for any of it. :(

    As you were writing this, I was mentally composing my 500 words for Senna... which had something to do with telling a story through moments...
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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    CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,089 Member
    edited January 2017
    And, guess what? It's Coffee Hour for @RipuAncestor 's Fey of Life! I'm Coffee Hour Host, and I'm taking a slightly different approach. For Round One, we'll be talking about the expectations that we form as readers from reading the prologue, so even if you haven't completely caught up, you'll still be able to participate.

    Then, in Round Two, we'll be focusing on the visuals, and the interplay between visuals and words--so you'll also be able to participate even if not completely caught up.

    In Round Three, I'd like to consider the meanings that we make when reading this work--so again, no need to be completely caught up to take part in the conversation!

    I'd love to have you swing by! I always love to hear each of your thoughts, responses, and insights. This story has become part of me--it's there in the fabric of who I am. I'd love to talk about it with each of you! <3
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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    JLBDreamerJLBDreamer Posts: 622 Member
    edited November 2021
    Deleted
    Post edited by JLBDreamer on
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    Thank you! :blush: Also yeah, you do have a point about "objectifying" in that sense. Speaking of making emotions/concepts into characters, here's a chapter of "objectified" emotions/concepts talking :lol::

    Chapter 31: Break. Connection.
    VGJX6u5.jpg

    Tad takes a break and tries to make a friend. It works. Maybe.

    Have a lovely time everyone!

    This picture is intriguing! A new friend for Tad. Must catch up. :)
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
    Simblr
    My Sims Pinterest
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    @RipuAncestor @InfraGreen @CathyTea

    I get where you're all coming from.

    Stuff like the form for the 500 words thing always bothers me. Because I've noticed that most quizzes and tests online have a lot of assumptions in their text, and in the way that they limit possible responses.

    Like so often I am doing a quiz or a test and I'm like "What if I don't like any of these choices?" or "What if I agree with only part of this possible answer but your form is forcing me to give the impression that I agree with all of it?" Or if the quiz is about beliefs and philosophies, so often my answer is "But what if I reject the entire system behind all of the possible answers you've given me and so clicking on any of these circles would be forcing a result that would not show my true values?"

    Also on a lot of them it's very apparent how to game it to get certain results, because they're not exactly subtle about which answers go with which results.

    But I do also get how looking into a vague general abstraction can be a good source of thought and insight, in seeing how you react to it and what bits fit and what bits don't.

    It can also be a good source of divining the system that the person who made the quiz is operating in. The limits in popular mainstream internet tests can show you the limits of popular mainstream culture.

    For instance, I did not see writing as a choice of medium. And like @InfraGreen noted, the choice of words to describe your work showed a distinct idea of what themes are considered art. The quiz definitely had a postmodern academic bent. If writing had been included, I imagine the author would have only had the sort of writing that shows up in upper middle class literary journals in mind.

    I propose that whoever wants to should write their own 500 words about their own work.

    @MedleyMisty I can see where you're coming from, and agree. It's something I did for fun, but I recognized the limitations of the system. You're right. Writing wasn't an option, and I found that to be annoying. I do use other forms of art (i.e. media arts and music for my work and pleasure) but music wasn't an option either and I consider it an art form... same as theater or dance. I felt the options for types of art to be restricted, and the language seemed to be postmodern academic like you said with an upper middle class-ish feel.

    I feel similarly about most quizzes, especially the ones where I can guess which answers fit which responses. You can practically pick what you want from the beginning. These types of quizzes are always limited by the creator's mentality and background. They are meant to be fun, not set in stone.

    The first two times I took the 500 Letters thing, I got something about "cold violence" depicted in my "art" and "ever-present corporate mentality" that drives me, as the artist, to write about anti-corporation and against capitalism. I may have experienced, witnessed, and have even written about the evils of big corporations (like scratching the surface in Kass' stories), but I'm not anti-capitalist. I do think people should be able to be fairly compensated for their work. And the violence part struck me as odd. Sure, violence plays a part in my stories, particularly CFT, because evil is a necessary force in writing, but I was surprised at the impact of the words "cold violence," as if I am totally okay with violence or condone it. Perhaps I'm reading into things.

    I think 500 Letters might actually be more accurate if we entered 500 words from a piece of fiction we've written and then let the computer program analyze it. I think I've done something like this before and it was more insightful and accurate than this type of quiz.
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    CathyTea wrote: »
    rednenemon wrote: »
    CathyTea wrote: »
    We could also write 500 words for each other! :)

    Well, of course! :)

    I wouldn't know where to begin with writing 500 words for anyone.

    Mainly since when I went to see for myself, I realized I don't even know what to choose for any of it. :(

    As you were writing this, I was mentally composing my 500 words for Senna... which had something to do with telling a story through moments...

    Ditto, I totally concur. I couldn't have said it better myself, @CathyTea, "telling a story through moments." That's one of the things I love about your story, Senna/ @rednenemon.
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
    Simblr
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    CathyTea wrote: »
    And, guess what? It's Coffee Hour for @RipuAncestor 's Fey of Life! I'm Coffee Hour Host, and I'm taking a slightly different approach. For Round One, we'll be talking about the expectations that we form as readers from reading the prologue, so even if you haven't completely caught up, you'll still be able to participate.

    Then, in Round Two, we'll be focusing on the visuals, and the interplay between visuals and words--so you'll also be able to participate even if not completely caught up.

    In Round Three, I'd like to consider the meanings that we make when reading this work--so again, no need to be completely caught up to take part in the conversation!

    I'd love to have you swing by! I always love to hear each of your thoughts, responses, and insights. This story has become part of me--it's there in the fabric of who I am. I'd love to talk about it with each of you! <3

    I'm so behind with Fey of Life. I think I only read 2-3 chapters because I switched over to Tango and got swept up in a whirlwind, but I could partially participate. :)
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
    Simblr
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    edited January 2017
    Yup, I can definitely see the similarities between our character development-views. I don't have as detailed notes and as impressive world-building, but the basic principles are the same. I really, really like getting acquainted with characters, and it usually feels pretty easy to me once I've got the basics of the character down. Now if only I could make decent, coherent plotlines too... :sweat:

    I thought I replied to this @RipuAncestor... I think you make more than decent plot lines. I think your plot lines are fabulous. And they're coherent! :) I worry I've gotten too convoluted with Kass's story... too many open plot threads and rabbit trails. :/

    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    So now that I've started re-reading @RipuAncestor's Fey of Life, I realize I had forgotten the story was set in Twinbrook (at least in the beginning... I don't know if that changes later). I think it's interesting that many of us have utilized Twinbrook as a setting in our stories and I wonder if this is saying something about the appeal or design of the town, the characters in it, or our writing styles. No, I don't have anything else intelligent to say on the topic... just thinking aloud. It's still early-ish here.
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
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    MedleyMistyMedleyMisty Posts: 1,188 Member
    @RipuAncestor @InfraGreen @CathyTea

    I get where you're all coming from.

    Stuff like the form for the 500 words thing always bothers me. Because I've noticed that most quizzes and tests online have a lot of assumptions in their text, and in the way that they limit possible responses.

    Like so often I am doing a quiz or a test and I'm like "What if I don't like any of these choices?" or "What if I agree with only part of this possible answer but your form is forcing me to give the impression that I agree with all of it?" Or if the quiz is about beliefs and philosophies, so often my answer is "But what if I reject the entire system behind all of the possible answers you've given me and so clicking on any of these circles would be forcing a result that would not show my true values?"

    Also on a lot of them it's very apparent how to game it to get certain results, because they're not exactly subtle about which answers go with which results.

    But I do also get how looking into a vague general abstraction can be a good source of thought and insight, in seeing how you react to it and what bits fit and what bits don't.

    It can also be a good source of divining the system that the person who made the quiz is operating in. The limits in popular mainstream internet tests can show you the limits of popular mainstream culture.

    For instance, I did not see writing as a choice of medium. And like @InfraGreen noted, the choice of words to describe your work showed a distinct idea of what themes are considered art. The quiz definitely had a postmodern academic bent. If writing had been included, I imagine the author would have only had the sort of writing that shows up in upper middle class literary journals in mind.

    I propose that whoever wants to should write their own 500 words about their own work.

    @MedleyMisty I can see where you're coming from, and agree. It's something I did for fun, but I recognized the limitations of the system. You're right. Writing wasn't an option, and I found that to be annoying. I do use other forms of art (i.e. media arts and music for my work and pleasure) but music wasn't an option either and I consider it an art form... same as theater or dance. I felt the options for types of art to be restricted, and the language seemed to be postmodern academic like you said with an upper middle class-ish feel.

    I feel similarly about most quizzes, especially the ones where I can guess which answers fit which responses. You can practically pick what you want from the beginning. These types of quizzes are always limited by the creator's mentality and background. They are meant to be fun, not set in stone.

    The first two times I took the 500 Letters thing, I got something about "cold violence" depicted in my "art" and "ever-present corporate mentality" that drives me, as the artist, to write about anti-corporation and against capitalism. I may have experienced, witnessed, and have even written about the evils of big corporations (like scratching the surface in Kass' stories), but I'm not anti-capitalist. I do think people should be able to be fairly compensated for their work. And the violence part struck me as odd. Sure, violence plays a part in my stories, particularly CFT, because evil is a necessary force in writing, but I was surprised at the impact of the words "cold violence," as if I am totally okay with violence or condone it. Perhaps I'm reading into things.

    I think 500 Letters might actually be more accurate if we entered 500 words from a piece of fiction we've written and then let the computer program analyze it. I think I've done something like this before and it was more insightful and accurate than this type of quiz.

    I was hoping we'd put in 500 words from our work and it would analyze it too.

    Are you thinking of the site that matched your work with the style of a famous author, based on an excerpt?
    Sometimes the darkness and I tell stories.
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    @MedleyMisty Oh... possibly! I could've sworn there was something else though...where you plug in your own words and it analyzes it.
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
    Simblr
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    CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,089 Member
    One of the online tools that analyzes blocks of your own text that you enter is, "I Write Like," https://iwl.me/ I like this a lot--it's fun.

    Then there are others that look at the grade level/difficulty level of your writing, or other types of analyses. I haven't used any of those.

    500 letters really is, actually, a joke:

    Check out the first letter, http://500letters.org/index.php

    Here's a quote from it:
    Previously, you asked me if I could send you an artist biography of 100 words or 500 letters as quickly as possible. Unfortunately I did not succeed at this task, as 100 words seem too concise to describe my work and really would be limiting to the complexity of my artistic practice. Therefore, 500 letters seems to me the best idea. But, since this will take much more time than currently available, I’m forced to ask for a postponement.

    In the meantime, I have created this application that from now on will take over these inessential tasks for me and I hope this can be a useful tool for artists who find themselves in a similar situation.[

    (The word "application" links to that little form we all used...)

    So, yes. It's meant to be poking fun at the very things that you all mentioned, and not intended, at all to be anything serious...
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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    RipuAncestorRipuAncestor Posts: 2,332 Member
    Yup, I can definitely see the similarities between our character development-views. I don't have as detailed notes and as impressive world-building, but the basic principles are the same. I really, really like getting acquainted with characters, and it usually feels pretty easy to me once I've got the basics of the character down. Now if only I could make decent, coherent plotlines too... :sweat:

    I thought I replied to this @RipuAncestor... I think you make more than decent plot lines. I think your plot lines are fabulous. And they're coherent! :) I worry I've gotten too convoluted with Kass's story... too many open plot threads and rabbit trails. :/
    I like the multiple plot threads in Kass's stories. They work especially because the story is supposed to be mainly about her life and growth as a person, and about the people around her, and life is usually full of events and twists and turns.

    My problem with my storylines is that I don't plan them enough because I tend to get lost in characters and the worlds. I have some central themes and bigger plot threads and smaller things I really want to add, but often getting to those things I want can be really difficult. So it's really easy for the stories to fall apart. It really doesn't help that Tango's more plot-oriented parts started out as just an excuse to get Tad among humans.

    So now that I've started re-reading @RipuAncestor's Fey of Life, I realize I had forgotten the story was set in Twinbrook (at least in the beginning... I don't know if that changes later). I think it's interesting that many of us have utilized Twinbrook as a setting in our stories and I wonder if this is saying something about the appeal or design of the town, the characters in it, or our writing styles. No, I don't have anything else intelligent to say on the topic... just thinking aloud. It's still early-ish here.
    I think Twinbrook is really inspiring. I personally really like its aesthetic, its nature (yay, swamps!), and the morally ambiguous feel of its people. All the awesome stories about Twinbrook's people have made me really like them too, even though I don't really play them myself (or at least I haven't yet). I've been really missing Twinbrook ever since the Fey-storyline took the story's main family out of there (uh, spoilers?), so I try to occasionally shove some Twinbrook scenes in even in the later chapters.
    doublebannerpic.jpg?w=676
    My Sims stories:
    The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
    The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
    Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
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    AdamsEve1231AdamsEve1231 Posts: 7,035 Member
    I've been updating my site - well, the KCLKF one - and it's still under construction, but I've posted bios for my main characters recently (which some of you have already read) and new updated pages under My Simworld. I've disappeared into making over character appearances and personalities in some of my towns so that's why no new chapters as of late. I've got a few in the works - CFT ones outlined, and a chapter about Billy Caspian for I&S almost finished. Just dropping by for a friendly update and to say hello to all you lovely Simmers. :)
    With these forums closing down, stay connected.

    Find me elsewhere:
    My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
    Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
    My Worldbuilding Blog
    Simblr
    My Sims Pinterest
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    CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,089 Member
    I've been updating my site - well, the KCLKF one - and it's still under construction, but I've posted bios for my main characters recently (which some of you have already read) and new updated pages under My Simworld. I've disappeared into making over character appearances and personalities in some of my towns so that's why no new chapters as of late. I've got a few in the works - CFT ones outlined, and a chapter about Billy Caspian for I&S almost finished. Just dropping by for a friendly update and to say hello to all you lovely Simmers. :)

    I really enjoyed your biographies, @AdamsEve1231 ! And I was impressed with their thoroughness! What a lot of attention and effort! It was really interesting and it helped me understand the connections between your characters so much!

    ****

    So, I'm just about done with Shift. I've got four chapters to write, and it's done. So that means I'm thinking of my next project. I know I'll pick up Whisper again, and I will probably finish up Drifter, which isn't a Drifter challenge, but a Mooch Off Your Neighbor challenge. It'll be fun to take narrator, who is a drifter, to the city!

    Then, I keep thinking of starting new projects, too. One idea I have is a Pen-Pal project. This would be a collaboration with other Simmers (*hint-hint*) where we decide on the parameters (like aging-off, frequency of updates, and so on), and then the updates are basically letters from one Sim to the other. It could be super fun--it could cross between TS2, 3, or 4, and it would be a neat way to tell a story and a fun way to collaborate, for it's very much "do your own thing" and just share it!

    The other idea I'm thinking of would be a story called "My Digital Life"--a first-person account of a Sim's life, told AS a Sim. I'm not sure where this one would go, and I'd want to be careful not to repeat the whole S-GAS thing... I'd want to extend this in some way. Not sure.

    Where are all of you with your Simming and writing processes and projects?
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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