After two years, I'm really bored of being told what my opinion about certain features not being in the game ought to be, and that I should be scared for the future. You know what? You don't get to dictate other people's preferences or opinions. And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
Then defend it. I just got done linking this and you apparently did not read it and did exactly what it says. Acknowledging that you're entitled to an opinion does nothing to address the criticisms raised or to defend aspects you like. Sure enough, your post is devoid of any concrete arguments or statements, failing to both counter any criticisms said and to actually defend your own stance.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions. If you cannot even explain why you like something or why a critic is wrong in a logical, coherent way...? You should probably reflect on why that is. I can already pick apart the post above:
I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game.
What is fresh about Sims 4?!? The only feature in Sims 4 that is entirely new to the Sims franchise is the clubs system of Get Together, but sadly that one relies on basegame features to support it; stick that feature in Sims 3 and I promise you it'd perform better since you can make clubs of Genies that banish sims from lots or clubs of Aliens that summon meteors. Sims 4 lacks actually gameplay content, so clubs remain the only new feature. That's it. Even the "revolutionary" moods system is more or less Sims 3 moodlets expanded to have a couple more dimensions to it, but even so Sims 3 had moodlets that were often more powerful or meaningful. (Death of a loved one activated new interactions, being cheated on meant automatic refusal of all romantic interactions and many negative interactions for friendy ones for it's duration, creeped out did the same, etc etc) It's already copying past iterations, it's just doing a terrible, half-complete job of it.
Wanna do a comparison...? Within the first three expansions for Sims 2, the revolutionary features we got were university studies, commercial lots in their entirety (and cars), and owning and running a business. In the first three expansions for Sims 3, we got adventure quests, we got active careers for the first time, and then Late Night was actually sparse on content but Bridgeport did deliver the first "city" experience of it's kind, thus people overlooked the lack of features themselves. Sims 4...? We're coming in on expansion pack #3 and only one of those three has done something new.
This is exactly why I'm gonna start putting that link everywhere: Empty "I'm entitled to my opinion" statements do nothing to actually justify said opinion. You just said Sims 4 is a "fresh game," but name no examples of how it's fresh at all. It's an empty, hollow compliment that isn't even deserved.
And to be a broken record once more...? Consumer bias is a thing. There was an actual accredited study that showed consumers are often reluctant to admit the failures of a product they love or that they vouched for because it's subconciously registered as a personal failure and as evidence for one's own faults. Yes, I would propose that if someone cannot even justify their love of Sims 4 or their positive opinions of it and simply delivers "I'm entitled to my opinion" or "I just like it ok," then why on earth am I to believe you're not just being defensive because you like the Sims franchise?Being defensive and sweeping the problems under the rug solves nothing. Heck, it encourages EA to keep doing what they're doing because they see they can get away with it. Let's not kid ourselves: it's a faceless corporation. The exact same faceless corporation that withheld press copies on release when they realized they had a dud product on their hands, so as to ensure press reviews didn't lead to a loss in profit or people retracting their pre-orders. You give a faceless corporation room to get more money from you for less work? Yes, it will totally do it. That's not a critique of EA in particular, that's not a critique that extends to the personalities of it's individual workers, but it's absolutely the way the world works.
You don't think we have, those of us who like the game? Defended it that is? Don't you think we've sat and we've said we like the liveliness of the sims, the way they interact with each other, the quests, especially in jobs (and I tend to get the LTW ones by accident rather than design) as it gives us a little bit of control over whether they reach the top of their career or not.
We've been sat defending our opinion for two years. We've said all we can say and more besides. We've been told we're wrong for liking the game more times than I'd care to count. It got boring during the first year. It petered out. There's no point defending it, when all you're going to get told is you're wrong. It's been done. Now it's easier to say 'I like it, deal with it'.
How strange that despite both existing since release day, somehow the critics aren't tired, but even when prompted and challenged, the fans still can't be bothered to defend it. It's as if that's a convenient excuse or something!!!
I don't owe you anything. That's not an excuse. I'm not playing. I'll make it easy for you though. You win.
After two years, I'm really bored of being told what my opinion about certain features not being in the game ought to be, and that I should be scared for the future. You know what? You don't get to dictate other people's preferences or opinions. And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
Then defend it. I just got done linking this and you apparently did not read it and did exactly what it says. Acknowledging that you're entitled to an opinion does nothing to address the criticisms raised or to defend aspects you like. Sure enough, your post is devoid of any concrete arguments or statements, failing to both counter any criticisms said and to actually defend your own stance.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions. If you cannot even explain why you like something or why a critic is wrong in a logical, coherent way...? You should probably reflect on why that is. I can already pick apart the post above:
I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game.
What is fresh about Sims 4?!? The only feature in Sims 4 that is entirely new to the Sims franchise is the clubs system of Get Together, but sadly that one relies on basegame features to support it; stick that feature in Sims 3 and I promise you it'd perform better since you can make clubs of Genies that banish sims from lots or clubs of Aliens that summon meteors. Sims 4 lacks actually gameplay content, so clubs remain the only new feature. That's it. Even the "revolutionary" moods system is more or less Sims 3 moodlets expanded to have a couple more dimensions to it, but even so Sims 3 had moodlets that were often more powerful or meaningful. (Death of a loved one activated new interactions, being cheated on meant automatic refusal of all romantic interactions and many negative interactions for friendy ones for it's duration, creeped out did the same, etc etc) It's already copying past iterations, it's just doing a terrible, half-complete job of it.
Wanna do a comparison...? Within the first three expansions for Sims 2, the revolutionary features we got were university studies, commercial lots in their entirety (and cars), and owning and running a business. In the first three expansions for Sims 3, we got adventure quests, we got active careers for the first time, and then Late Night was actually sparse on content but Bridgeport did deliver the first "city" experience of it's kind, thus people overlooked the lack of features themselves. Sims 4...? We're coming in on expansion pack #3 and only one of those three has done something new.
This is exactly why I'm gonna start putting that link everywhere: Empty "I'm entitled to my opinion" statements do nothing to actually justify said opinion. You just said Sims 4 is a "fresh game," but name no examples of how it's fresh at all. It's an empty, hollow compliment that isn't even deserved.
And to be a broken record once more...? Consumer bias is a thing. There was an actual accredited study that showed consumers are often reluctant to admit the failures of a product they love or that they vouched for because it's subconciously registered as a personal failure and as evidence for one's own faults. Yes, I would propose that if someone cannot even justify their love of Sims 4 or their positive opinions of it and simply delivers "I'm entitled to my opinion" or "I just like it ok," then why on earth am I to believe you're not just being defensive because you like the Sims franchise?Being defensive and sweeping the problems under the rug solves nothing. Heck, it encourages EA to keep doing what they're doing because they see they can get away with it. Let's not kid ourselves: it's a faceless corporation. The exact same faceless corporation that withheld press copies on release when they realized they had a dud product on their hands, so as to ensure press reviews didn't lead to a loss in profit or people retracting their pre-orders. You give a faceless corporation room to get more money from you for less work? Yes, it will totally do it. That's not a critique of EA in particular, that's not a critique that extends to the personalities of it's individual workers, but it's absolutely the way the world works.
You don't think we have, those of us who like the game? Defended it that is? Don't you think we've sat and we've said we like the liveliness of the sims, the way they interact with each other, the quests, especially in jobs (and I tend to get the LTW ones by accident rather than design) as it gives us a little bit of control over whether they reach the top of their career or not.
We've been sat defending our opinion for two years. We've said all we can say and more besides. We've been told we're wrong for liking the game more times than I'd care to count. It got boring during the first year. It petered out. There's no point defending it, when all you're going to get told is you're wrong. It's been done. Now it's easier to say 'I like it, deal with it'.
How strange that despite both existing since release day, somehow the critics aren't tired, but even when prompted and challenged, the fans still can't be bothered to defend it. It's as if that's a convenient excuse or something!!!
The fans have been demanded to defend it, again and again, often by the same people as last time, for over two years now. I often wish those critics would get as tired of demanding that we defend it as we do of answering that defense. But they don't seem to get tired of making the same complaints for two years, instead of finding something else to do.
Still, I'm done. I'll explain my opinions when I want to, not on demand. Fans do not owe you a defense.
Demanded how? You came in this thread, a thread clearly criticizing City Life!! How the hell are you gonna come in a thread like this, post quoting me, and then act like I must have some nerve to respond to you after you quoted me and you started speaking with me?
Is this a joke??
And how is this "the same complaints?" The thread is about City Living!! It's an expansion pack we've only known about for about two months!!
I'm sorry but face the music: your arguments here are poor. You're rewording the exact same fallacy. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying that because if everyone just refuses to face criticism of the game, then there's no demand for improvement.
You guys sure are passionate about the sims. Why isn't it as simple as letting people decide for themselves if they want it or not. Different people like different things. Being mad at EA is one thing but being mad at a fan who plays is a waste of time. People agreeing with your opinions doesn't make them right or wrong. Several people agreeing does validate how important some opinions are and those should be used to constructively critisize the game and its future.
Everyone can agree more content is good. But we all value different types of content differently and that's where the falling out begins.
After two years, I'm really bored of being told what my opinion about certain features not being in the game ought to be, and that I should be scared for the future. You know what? You don't get to dictate other people's preferences or opinions. And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
Then defend it. I just got done linking this and you apparently did not read it and did exactly what it says. Acknowledging that you're entitled to an opinion does nothing to address the criticisms raised or to defend aspects you like. Sure enough, your post is devoid of any concrete arguments or statements, failing to both counter any criticisms said and to actually defend your own stance.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions. If you cannot even explain why you like something or why a critic is wrong in a logical, coherent way...? You should probably reflect on why that is. I can already pick apart the post above:
I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game.
What is fresh about Sims 4?!? The only feature in Sims 4 that is entirely new to the Sims franchise is the clubs system of Get Together, but sadly that one relies on basegame features to support it; stick that feature in Sims 3 and I promise you it'd perform better since you can make clubs of Genies that banish sims from lots or clubs of Aliens that summon meteors. Sims 4 lacks actually gameplay content, so clubs remain the only new feature. That's it. Even the "revolutionary" moods system is more or less Sims 3 moodlets expanded to have a couple more dimensions to it, but even so Sims 3 had moodlets that were often more powerful or meaningful. (Death of a loved one activated new interactions, being cheated on meant automatic refusal of all romantic interactions and many negative interactions for friendy ones for it's duration, creeped out did the same, etc etc) It's already copying past iterations, it's just doing a terrible, half-complete job of it.
Wanna do a comparison...? Within the first three expansions for Sims 2, the revolutionary features we got were university studies, commercial lots in their entirety (and cars), and owning and running a business. In the first three expansions for Sims 3, we got adventure quests, we got active careers for the first time, and then Late Night was actually sparse on content but Bridgeport did deliver the first "city" experience of it's kind, thus people overlooked the lack of features themselves. Sims 4...? We're coming in on expansion pack #3 and only one of those three has done something new.
This is exactly why I'm gonna start putting that link everywhere: Empty "I'm entitled to my opinion" statements do nothing to actually justify said opinion. You just said Sims 4 is a "fresh game," but name no examples of how it's fresh at all. It's an empty, hollow compliment that isn't even deserved.
And to be a broken record once more...? Consumer bias is a thing. There was an actual accredited study that showed consumers are often reluctant to admit the failures of a product they love or that they vouched for because it's subconciously registered as a personal failure and as evidence for one's own faults. Yes, I would propose that if someone cannot even justify their love of Sims 4 or their positive opinions of it and simply delivers "I'm entitled to my opinion" or "I just like it ok," then why on earth am I to believe you're not just being defensive because you like the Sims franchise?Being defensive and sweeping the problems under the rug solves nothing. Heck, it encourages EA to keep doing what they're doing because they see they can get away with it. Let's not kid ourselves: it's a faceless corporation. The exact same faceless corporation that withheld press copies on release when they realized they had a dud product on their hands, so as to ensure press reviews didn't lead to a loss in profit or people retracting their pre-orders. You give a faceless corporation room to get more money from you for less work? Yes, it will totally do it. That's not a critique of EA in particular, that's not a critique that extends to the personalities of it's individual workers, but it's absolutely the way the world works.
You don't think we have, those of us who like the game? Defended it that is? Don't you think we've sat and we've said we like the liveliness of the sims, the way they interact with each other, the quests, especially in jobs (and I tend to get the LTW ones by accident rather than design) as it gives us a little bit of control over whether they reach the top of their career or not.
We've been sat defending our opinion for two years. We've said all we can say and more besides. We've been told we're wrong for liking the game more times than I'd care to count. It got boring during the first year. It petered out. There's no point defending it, when all you're going to get told is you're wrong. It's been done. Now it's easier to say 'I like it, deal with it'.
How strange that despite both existing since release day, somehow the critics aren't tired, but even when prompted and challenged, the fans still can't be bothered to defend it. It's as if that's a convenient excuse or something!!!
The fans have been demanded to defend it, again and again, often by the same people as last time, for over two years now. I often wish those critics would get as tired of demanding that we defend it as we do of answering that defense. But they don't seem to get tired of making the same complaints for two years, instead of finding something else to do.
Still, I'm done. I'll explain my opinions when I want to, not on demand. Fans do not owe you a defense.
Demanded how? You came in this thread, a thread clearly criticizing City Life!! How the plum are you gonna come in a thread like this, post quoting me, and then act like I have the audacity to respond to a conversation you started??
Is this a joke??
And how is this "the same complaints?" The thread is about City Living!! It's an expansion pack we've only known about for about two months!!
I'm sorry but face the music: your arguments here are poor. You're rewording the exact same fallacy. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying that because if everyone just refuses to face criticism of the game, then there's no demand for improvement.
Not playing, sorry. I'll explain my opinions when I want to, not on order. And you can stop ordering me to now.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
After two years, I'm really bored of being told what my opinion about certain features not being in the game ought to be, and that I should be scared for the future. You know what? You don't get to dictate other people's preferences or opinions. And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
Then defend it. I just got done linking this and you apparently did not read it and did exactly what it says. Acknowledging that you're entitled to an opinion does nothing to address the criticisms raised or to defend aspects you like. Sure enough, your post is devoid of any concrete arguments or statements, failing to both counter any criticisms said and to actually defend your own stance.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions. If you cannot even explain why you like something or why a critic is wrong in a logical, coherent way...? You should probably reflect on why that is. I can already pick apart the post above:
I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game.
What is fresh about Sims 4?!? The only feature in Sims 4 that is entirely new to the Sims franchise is the clubs system of Get Together, but sadly that one relies on basegame features to support it; stick that feature in Sims 3 and I promise you it'd perform better since you can make clubs of Genies that banish sims from lots or clubs of Aliens that summon meteors. Sims 4 lacks actually gameplay content, so clubs remain the only new feature. That's it. Even the "revolutionary" moods system is more or less Sims 3 moodlets expanded to have a couple more dimensions to it, but even so Sims 3 had moodlets that were often more powerful or meaningful. (Death of a loved one activated new interactions, being cheated on meant automatic refusal of all romantic interactions and many negative interactions for friendy ones for it's duration, creeped out did the same, etc etc) It's already copying past iterations, it's just doing a terrible, half-complete job of it.
Wanna do a comparison...? Within the first three expansions for Sims 2, the revolutionary features we got were university studies, commercial lots in their entirety (and cars), and owning and running a business. In the first three expansions for Sims 3, we got adventure quests, we got active careers for the first time, and then Late Night was actually sparse on content but Bridgeport did deliver the first "city" experience of it's kind, thus people overlooked the lack of features themselves. Sims 4...? We're coming in on expansion pack #3 and only one of those three has done something new.
This is exactly why I'm gonna start putting that link everywhere: Empty "I'm entitled to my opinion" statements do nothing to actually justify said opinion. You just said Sims 4 is a "fresh game," but name no examples of how it's fresh at all. It's an empty, hollow compliment that isn't even deserved.
And to be a broken record once more...? Consumer bias is a thing. There was an actual accredited study that showed consumers are often reluctant to admit the failures of a product they love or that they vouched for because it's subconciously registered as a personal failure and as evidence for one's own faults. Yes, I would propose that if someone cannot even justify their love of Sims 4 or their positive opinions of it and simply delivers "I'm entitled to my opinion" or "I just like it ok," then why on earth am I to believe you're not just being defensive because you like the Sims franchise?Being defensive and sweeping the problems under the rug solves nothing. Heck, it encourages EA to keep doing what they're doing because they see they can get away with it. Let's not kid ourselves: it's a faceless corporation. The exact same faceless corporation that withheld press copies on release when they realized they had a dud product on their hands, so as to ensure press reviews didn't lead to a loss in profit or people retracting their pre-orders. You give a faceless corporation room to get more money from you for less work? Yes, it will totally do it. That's not a critique of EA in particular, that's not a critique that extends to the personalities of it's individual workers, but it's absolutely the way the world works.
You don't think we have, those of us who like the game? Defended it that is? Don't you think we've sat and we've said we like the liveliness of the sims, the way they interact with each other, the quests, especially in jobs (and I tend to get the LTW ones by accident rather than design) as it gives us a little bit of control over whether they reach the top of their career or not.
We've been sat defending our opinion for two years. We've said all we can say and more besides. We've been told we're wrong for liking the game more times than I'd care to count. It got boring during the first year. It petered out. There's no point defending it, when all you're going to get told is you're wrong. It's been done. Now it's easier to say 'I like it, deal with it'.
How strange that despite both existing since release day, somehow the critics aren't tired, but even when prompted and challenged, the fans still can't be bothered to defend it. It's as if that's a convenient excuse or something!!!
Hey buddy...you seem to have elected yourself the Grande Poobah of the Forum Debate Police, but fail to comprehend that some people aren't interested in engaging your demands to defend their opinions until they meet your satisfaction. Perhaps you should lighten up a little. Nobody owes you an explanation, nor do they need your approval to enjoy their games.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
In Sims 3, we could (well, theoretically) build apartments but we had no control over who our neighbors were -- they were game generated, you couldn't even go into their "apartments". The high-rises in Sims 3 were basically giant houses but you were limited to just a small part of them.
In Sims 4, we can't build the apartments but we have control over our neighbors -- I could kick out every premade in a building and place all of my own Sims. Since I'm just a mere player, and not an Exalted Builder, I guess my preferences don't really count. When you look at apartments in Sims 4, I think they came up to the best compromise they could. In a sense, an apartment building is a neighborhood within a neighborhood; you can go out into the common area (hallway, lobby) and even outside without a loading screen, but when you go into a 'house" (individual apartment unit) you encounter the loading screen. And since we can't create our own neighborhoods, we're not going to be able to create our own apartments.
It might be nice to eventually have some sort of feature to allow for limited apartment building in other worlds -- or at least be able to do duplexes or triplexes. But I'm okay with what we're getting in City Living when it comes to apartments, especially when you include the festivals, the new careers (including the ability to work from home so you don't lose progression if you want to take a day off)), and the new foods just for starters.
I understand that not everyone is happy with the way apartments were implemented -- but if it's a choice between the system we got and no apartments at all, I can live with the limitations. A single YA living in a single family home just isn't that realistic.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
... it fails to acknowledge the objective truth that there are indeed specific features missing that have been present in EVERY former Sims game and should not be too difficult to include, yet they don't.
On what objective grounds do you know this? Do you know the point at which the EP's concept becomes financially unsustainable? Do you know which other feature would be given up, resulting in reduced, not increased sales? Do you know how the new pack concepts are performing financially compared to the old ones? Do you know the cost-benefit analysis for the City Living EP?
Personally, I don't want features to be included if they end up being just a lip-service version of that feature. I want great, fully developed features that meet their potential. If that means a change in add-on structure, bring it on. And that is my opinion. You don't have to share it, but it's just as valid and objective as yours.
@luthienrising And how do apartments rank in your criteria listed above with this pack? Or festivals for that matter? Or player dictated environment and style? This pack does nothing but pay lip service in all of it's key features to date. We have still not learned much about Lot Traits but that's the last thing to truly have an opportunity to perform and shine and set itself apart as THE key feature of this expansion. And, this pack fits in exactly with how they were described recently by Rachel- broad but not deep. They tried to touch on everything (paying lip service imo) without fully developing any of it which is the "not deep" part she talked about. If what you have just written is true- then you should in fact be the biggest critic of this pack, not it's greatest supporter. None of it is fully developed- it's broad but not deep.
Apartments rank high with me. What I, personally, need in apartments is a full experience of apartment life, with neighbours, landlords, etc., and with the ability to place multiple households in a building. I'd rather have that than buildability. And I understand why I can't have both. For me, an apartment that functions like an oversized house is "lip service" from a gameplay perspective. This isn't.
I haven't seen enough on Festivals yet to judge them, but these ones seem designed to provide a variety of experiences and to relate to the urban setting. Haven't seen cause to think they aren't fully developed yet. They seem to bring new kinds of gameplay, a mix of new and old objects, and a variety of experiences that will differentiate them from each other.
Put together these with basketball and graffiti in particular, and with the neighbourhood range, and this pack strike me as a fully developed city experience. Stuffing in vampires would have cut back on that and probably meant more lame vampires.
See, I'm of the opinion that we've never, since The Sims Makin' Magic, had a fully developed supernatural lifestate. We've had supernaturals stuffed into other gamepacks, or a ton of them all stuffed into a single EP. And that's the lack of full development that I feel is improved by letting a city pack be a city pack, not a city + vampires pack. Get to Work would have been better served if it had cut Retail off into a separate pack and expanded what it did with the careers (maybe they could have had branches, and been better integrated into the full game) and the Aliens (maybe more could have been done with Sixam, Alien rocketships, etc.), so it would have been a more cohesive pack. As it is, while the Aliens are great, their not as great as they could have been in a pack that was more focused on them, and threw less other things in: there's a relationship between two of the three careers and the Aliens, but none with retail.
Great thoughts on GTW -- maybe Retail could have been done as a game pack, or even combined with Dine Out in some way so you could own multiple stores and open/close them remotely like you can restaurants, and not have to be on site all the time.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I suspect we won't be able to create our own dorms either if we get University. I hope they do the opposite and use University dorms as a way to allow us to build simple apartments.
@CK213 This is what I'm hoping too. How do you see that working?
Don't have a clue.
But at least they might not have the same constraints as they did with City Living. I can't see them putting so much detail into dorm life that it limits what they can do with the dorm. And with University, you aren't switching households. You are with the same sims for the duration.
This is a good idea! I had in mind a Generations type of pack with suburban areas and smaller-scale apartment building included in that, but University EP also sounds like a good place to provide the tools for builders. In TS2 we had owned doors for University, but all the played roommates in the dorm shared the same funds. I would like to play all the played sims in a dormitory lot at the same time but I would like them to have separate funds if possible.
The Owned door could also provide extensive door locking system. A door (and the apartment in it) could be marked to be owned by several different sims, for example a couple and their children. With that the people in different apartments would be part of the same household, but with the door locking they would "recognize" which part of the lot is theirs - they wouldn't start cooking in their neighbor's kitchen! I have built and downloaded apartments like that and I would love to have at least that.
Sorry for thinking out loud. XD It's just something I keep puzzling over and I'm glad to hear what others are thinking. I'll clarify my thinking and I think I'll start an ideas thread so we can all talk about what we want without derailing this one. Ooops.
Your ideas with hidden room markers sound great! Already having separate funds for businesses in TS4 makes me hopeful that there will be more functionality with separating funds (for example, separate funds for roommates and different accounts for sims) in the future. I think it could potentially open up more gameplay ideas like kids having weekly allowance and places to spend it at, and a teen saving money for moving out. It is one of my pet peeves that every sim moving out of a household gets the Starter 20.000 Simoleons from out of nowhere. I really think we need better tools for the finances! Which is a point for an entire new ideas thread already
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
In Sims 3, we could (well, theoretically) build apartments but we had no control over who our neighbors were -- they were game generated, you couldn't even go into their "apartments". The high-rises in Sims 3 were basically giant houses but you were limited to just a small part of them.
In Sims 4, we can't build the apartments but we have control over our neighbors -- I could kick out every premade in a building and place all of my own Sims. Since I'm just a mere player, and not an Exalted Builder, I guess my preferences don't really count. When you look at apartments in Sims 4, I think they came up to the best compromise they could. In a sense, an apartment building is a neighborhood within a neighborhood; you can go out into the common area (hallway, lobby) and even outside without a loading screen, but when you go into a 'house" (individual apartment unit) you encounter the loading screen. And since we can't create our own neighborhoods, we're not going to be able to create our own apartments.
It might be nice to eventually have some sort of feature to allow for limited apartment building in other worlds -- or at least be able to do duplexes or triplexes. But I'm okay with what we're getting in City Living when it comes to apartments, especially when you include the festivals, the new careers (including the ability to work from home so you don't lose progression if you want to take a day off)), and the new foods just for starters.
I understand that not everyone is happy with the way apartments were implemented -- but if it's a choice between the system we got and no apartments at all, I can live with the limitations. A single YA living in a single family home just isn't that realistic.
The control you have over your neighbors in apartments is no different than your control over your neighbors in Willow creek. What you are describing isn't an apartment system, it's an illusion that was created to mask the fact no apartment system was created for this pack.
The only things that separate apartments from regular lots are the severe restrictions and the 'set dressing' that surrounds each lot. There has been significant effort to inflate this component and honestly it's a very poorly designed feature. You're not getting functional apartments, as I said you're getting a dressed up lot that can house one household. Next 'unit' over is a completely separate lot.
After two years, I'm really bored of being told what my opinion about certain features not being in the game ought to be, and that I should be scared for the future. You know what? You don't get to dictate other people's preferences or opinions. And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
Then defend it. I just got done linking this and you apparently did not read it and did exactly what it says. Acknowledging that you're entitled to an opinion does nothing to address the criticisms raised or to defend aspects you like. Sure enough, your post is devoid of any concrete arguments or statements, failing to both counter any criticisms said and to actually defend your own stance.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions. If you cannot even explain why you like something or why a critic is wrong in a logical, coherent way...? You should probably reflect on why that is. I can already pick apart the post above:
I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game.
What is fresh about Sims 4?!? The only feature in Sims 4 that is entirely new to the Sims franchise is the clubs system of Get Together, but sadly that one relies on basegame features to support it; stick that feature in Sims 3 and I promise you it'd perform better since you can make clubs of Genies that banish sims from lots or clubs of Aliens that summon meteors. Sims 4 lacks actually gameplay content, so clubs remain the only new feature. That's it. Even the "revolutionary" moods system is more or less Sims 3 moodlets expanded to have a couple more dimensions to it, but even so Sims 3 had moodlets that were often more powerful or meaningful. (Death of a loved one activated new interactions, being cheated on meant automatic refusal of all romantic interactions and many negative interactions for friendy ones for it's duration, creeped out did the same, etc etc) It's already copying past iterations, it's just doing a terrible, half-complete job of it.
Wanna do a comparison...? Within the first three expansions for Sims 2, the revolutionary features we got were university studies, commercial lots in their entirety (and cars), and owning and running a business. In the first three expansions for Sims 3, we got adventure quests, we got active careers for the first time, and then Late Night was actually sparse on content but Bridgeport did deliver the first "city" experience of it's kind, thus people overlooked the lack of features themselves. Sims 4...? We're coming in on expansion pack #3 and only one of those three has done something new.
This is exactly why I'm gonna start putting that link everywhere: Empty "I'm entitled to my opinion" statements do nothing to actually justify said opinion. You just said Sims 4 is a "fresh game," but name no examples of how it's fresh at all. It's an empty, hollow compliment that isn't even deserved.
And to be a broken record once more...? Consumer bias is a thing. There was an actual accredited study that showed consumers are often reluctant to admit the failures of a product they love or that they vouched for because it's subconciously registered as a personal failure and as evidence for one's own faults. Yes, I would propose that if someone cannot even justify their love of Sims 4 or their positive opinions of it and simply delivers "I'm entitled to my opinion" or "I just like it ok," then why on earth am I to believe you're not just being defensive because you like the Sims franchise?Being defensive and sweeping the problems under the rug solves nothing. Heck, it encourages EA to keep doing what they're doing because they see they can get away with it. Let's not kid ourselves: it's a faceless corporation. The exact same faceless corporation that withheld press copies on release when they realized they had a dud product on their hands, so as to ensure press reviews didn't lead to a loss in profit or people retracting their pre-orders. You give a faceless corporation room to get more money from you for less work? Yes, it will totally do it. That's not a critique of EA in particular, that's not a critique that extends to the personalities of it's individual workers, but it's absolutely the way the world works.
You don't think we have, those of us who like the game? Defended it that is? Don't you think we've sat and we've said we like the liveliness of the sims, the way they interact with each other, the quests, especially in jobs (and I tend to get the LTW ones by accident rather than design) as it gives us a little bit of control over whether they reach the top of their career or not.
We've been sat defending our opinion for two years. We've said all we can say and more besides. We've been told we're wrong for liking the game more times than I'd care to count. It got boring during the first year. It petered out. There's no point defending it, when all you're going to get told is you're wrong. It's been done. Now it's easier to say 'I like it, deal with it'.
How strange that despite both existing since release day, somehow the critics aren't tired, but even when prompted and challenged, the fans still can't be bothered to defend it. It's as if that's a convenient excuse or something!!!
The fans have been demanded to defend it, again and again, often by the same people as last time, for over two years now. I often wish those critics would get as tired of demanding that we defend it as we do of answering that defense. But they don't seem to get tired of making the same complaints for two years, instead of finding something else to do.
Still, I'm done. I'll explain my opinions when I want to, not on demand. Fans do not owe you a defense.
Demanded how? You came in this thread, a thread clearly criticizing City Life!! How the plum are you gonna come in a thread like this, post quoting me, and then act like I have the audacity to respond to a conversation you started??
Is this a joke??
And how is this "the same complaints?" The thread is about City Living!! It's an expansion pack we've only known about for about two months!!
I'm sorry but face the music: your arguments here are poor. You're rewording the exact same fallacy. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying that because if everyone just refuses to face criticism of the game, then there's no demand for improvement.
Not playing, sorry. I'll explain my opinions when I want to, not on order. And you can stop ordering me to now.
Dude that's ridiculous. You cannot go into a thread, start a conversation with someone, and then the moment they ask you to justify your claim, you act like the person is being outrageous and demanding things of you.
You started speaking to me. If you cannot justify anything you say, don't say it.
You claimed Sims 4 has new features that past iterations didn't. If you cannot justify that statement, don't say it. This isn't me being a jerk for demanding that evidence, that's how the world works. A teacher will ask you to justify your claims, a voter will ask a politician to justify their claims, a customer hiring an electrician might want to hear evidence the electrician knows their stuff. A student that refuses to answer gets an F, a politician that can't provide evidence loses the election and a worker that can't showcase their expertise loses a customer.
If you want to make whatever statement you want without ever having to justify it, then there's nothing stopping you from telling people Sims 4 lets you ride dragons (it doesn't) and nothing stopping me from claiming Sims 4 gives your computer malware and steals your credit card info. (it doesn't)
People naturally demand that you justify claims made. If you cannot do that? Don't make such claims. If you cannot handle a debate? Don't purposefully go into a thread that clearly advertises itself as being upset with City Living, quote somebody and address them specifically, and then act like that person is outrageous when they respond to you. Nobody made you come in here, nobody made you start talking to me, nobody did any of that.
Go on and be on your way if you don't wanna have this discussion, but don't act like this is somehow everyone else's fault and not your own. You're the one that started the conversation, you're the one that made baseless claims.
I suspect we won't be able to create our own dorms either if we get University. I hope they do the opposite and use University dorms as a way to allow us to build simple apartments.
@CK213 This is what I'm hoping too. How do you see that working?
Don't have a clue.
But at least they might not have the same constraints as they did with City Living. I can't see them putting so much detail into dorm life that it limits what they can do with the dorm. And with University, you aren't switching households. You are with the same sims for the duration.
This is a good idea! I had in mind a Generations type of pack with suburban areas and smaller-scale apartment building included in that, but University EP also sounds like a good place to provide the tools for builders. In TS2 we had owned doors for University, but all the played roommates in the dorm shared the same funds. I would like to play all the played sims in a dormitory lot at the same time but I would like them to have separate funds if possible.
The Owned door could also provide extensive door locking system. A door (and the apartment in it) could be marked to be owned by several different sims, for example a couple and their children. With that the people in different apartments would be part of the same household, but with the door locking they would "recognize" which part of the lot is theirs - they wouldn't start cooking in their neighbor's kitchen! I have built and downloaded apartments like that and I would love to have at least that.
Sorry for thinking out loud. XD It's just something I keep puzzling over and I'm glad to hear what others are thinking. I'll clarify my thinking and I think I'll start an ideas thread so we can all talk about what we want without derailing this one. Ooops.
Your ideas with hidden room markers sound great! Already having separate funds for businesses in TS4 makes me hopeful that there will be more functionality with separating funds (for example, separate funds for roommates and different accounts for sims) in the future. I think it could potentially open up more gameplay ideas like kids having weekly allowance and places to spend it at, and a teen saving money for moving out. It is one of my pet peeves that every sim moving out of a household gets the Starter 20.000 Simoleons from out of nowhere. I really think we need better tools for the finances! Which is a point for an entire new ideas thread already
I would really love to have individual accounts for Sims, maybe starting when Sims are teens -- it would make getting a part-time job more meaningful where teen Sims could earn their own spending money for taking a date out to dinner, or buying items (especially with the Flea Market). It could also solve the issue of losing career rewards when you move from one household to another; I just moved a couple of my Sims into their own place from their parents' house so I could focus on their development before moving them to San Myshuno. Both of them had to leave career rewards behind because they were in "household inventory". If we had individual accounts, the Sims could sell those rewards and have the money to either get a better quality place, or they could repurchase the rewards after they move in. (I'm going to have a similar problem when I break up my Sims into two households -- storyline may be that one of them lost a bunch of the househomoney gambling on the stock market so he got kicked out to live on his own in a ratty apartment.)
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
In Sims 3, we could (well, theoretically) build apartments but we had no control over who our neighbors were -- they were game generated, you couldn't even go into their "apartments". The high-rises in Sims 3 were basically giant houses but you were limited to just a small part of them.
In Sims 4, we can't build the apartments but we have control over our neighbors -- I could kick out every premade in a building and place all of my own Sims. Since I'm just a mere player, and not an Exalted Builder, I guess my preferences don't really count. When you look at apartments in Sims 4, I think they came up to the best compromise they could. In a sense, an apartment building is a neighborhood within a neighborhood; you can go out into the common area (hallway, lobby) and even outside without a loading screen, but when you go into a 'house" (individual apartment unit) you encounter the loading screen. And since we can't create our own neighborhoods, we're not going to be able to create our own apartments.
It might be nice to eventually have some sort of feature to allow for limited apartment building in other worlds -- or at least be able to do duplexes or triplexes. But I'm okay with what we're getting in City Living when it comes to apartments, especially when you include the festivals, the new careers (including the ability to work from home so you don't lose progression if you want to take a day off)), and the new foods just for starters.
I understand that not everyone is happy with the way apartments were implemented -- but if it's a choice between the system we got and no apartments at all, I can live with the limitations. A single YA living in a single family home just isn't that realistic.
The control you have over your neighbors in apartments is no different than your control over your neighbors in Willow creek. What you are describing isn't an apartment system, it's an illusion that was created to mask the fact no apartment system was created for this pack.
The only things that separate apartments from regular lots are the severe restrictions and the 'set dressing' that surrounds each lot. There has been significant effort to inflate this component and honestly it's a very poorly designed feature. You're not getting functional apartments, as I said you're getting a dressed up lot that can house one household. Next 'unit' over is a completely separate lot.
TS2 apartments' system was an illusion too. Inge_Jones explained that it was in fact separate copies of the lot to create the illusion that they were several units on the same lot while you had in fact as many lots as you has units.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions.
Whoa< I think you need to look into the difference between subjective and objective opinions.
What most of us do here in this forum are all about subjective opinions, including you ( the one I quoted and then some ) and me.
I don't feel I have to defend and explain my subjective opinion because what I like about the new game won't change your subjective opinion not liking it. Discussion however is when both listen and learn.
This whole thing about " For Sims4 vs. Against Sims4 " isn't really going to change what the game is.
What I find tiring though is that almost all posts have some negativity in them. I know many ( like me ) have probably played the Sims for years and now feel very disappointed. In all honesty I did too at first but the more I get into the game the more I like it. For me, this is the first game that have other sims doing meaningful things without prompt. Ex. get into fights, hugs etc. It makes the whole community more alive to me. I miss the open world but it wasn't ideal either. If it had been the size of the neighborhoods we have today I think I would have been happier.
Anyhow, lol, I guess I gave you a rant why I like the game
I suspect we won't be able to create our own dorms either if we get University. I hope they do the opposite and use University dorms as a way to allow us to build simple apartments.
@CK213 This is what I'm hoping too. How do you see that working?
Don't have a clue.
But at least they might not have the same constraints as they did with City Living. I can't see them putting so much detail into dorm life that it limits what they can do with the dorm. And with University, you aren't switching households. You are with the same sims for the duration.
This is a good idea! I had in mind a Generations type of pack with suburban areas and smaller-scale apartment building included in that, but University EP also sounds like a good place to provide the tools for builders. In TS2 we had owned doors for University, but all the played roommates in the dorm shared the same funds. I would like to play all the played sims in a dormitory lot at the same time but I would like them to have separate funds if possible.
The Owned door could also provide extensive door locking system. A door (and the apartment in it) could be marked to be owned by several different sims, for example a couple and their children. With that the people in different apartments would be part of the same household, but with the door locking they would "recognize" which part of the lot is theirs - they wouldn't start cooking in their neighbor's kitchen! I have built and downloaded apartments like that and I would love to have at least that.
Sorry for thinking out loud. XD It's just something I keep puzzling over and I'm glad to hear what others are thinking. I'll clarify my thinking and I think I'll start an ideas thread so we can all talk about what we want without derailing this one. Ooops.
Your ideas with hidden room markers sound great! Already having separate funds for businesses in TS4 makes me hopeful that there will be more functionality with separating funds (for example, separate funds for roommates and different accounts for sims) in the future. I think it could potentially open up more gameplay ideas like kids having weekly allowance and places to spend it at, and a teen saving money for moving out. It is one of my pet peeves that every sim moving out of a household gets the Starter 20.000 Simoleons from out of nowhere. I really think we need better tools for the finances! Which is a point for an entire new ideas thread already
Yes, I agree with everything you're saying here. Individual funds could be handy for lots of different scenarios, especially if they are a basic feature of all households, and not something restricted to a specific lot like dorms. And the starter 20 000 annoys me too, I hope if/when we do get a uni expansion that we have to apply for scholarships and stuff again, it was always a bit of a struggle to scrape together the money in TS2 and I'd fill their inventories with furniture and things to sell before they left (unless you sold the dorm's furniture, lol!). I'm glad we can rent now in CL but I wish it was an option on all residential lots.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions.
Whoa< I think you need to look into the difference between subjective and objective opinions.
What most of us do here in this forum are all about subjective opinions, including you ( the one I quoted and then some ) and me.
I don't feel I have to defend and explain my subjective opinion because what I like about the new game won't change your subjective opinion not liking it. Discussion however is when both listen and learn.
This whole thing about " For Sims4 vs. Against Sims4 " isn't really going to change what the game is.
What I find tiring though is that almost all posts have some negativity in them. I know many ( like me ) have probably played the Sims for years and now feel very disappointed. In all honesty I did too at first but the more I get into the game the more I like it. For me, this is the first game that have other sims doing meaningful things without prompt. Ex. get into fights, hugs etc. It makes the whole community more alive to me. I miss the open world but it wasn't ideal either. If it had been the size of the neighborhoods we have today I think I would have been happier.
Anyhow, lol, I guess I gave you a rant why I like the game
I would really love to have individual accounts for Sims, maybe starting when Sims are teens -- it would make getting a part-time job more meaningful where teen Sims could earn their own spending money for taking a date out to dinner, or buying items (especially with the Flea Market). It could also solve the issue of losing career rewards when you move from one household to another; I just moved a couple of my Sims into their own place from their parents' house so I could focus on their development before moving them to San Myshuno. Both of them had to leave career rewards behind because they were in "household inventory". If we had individual accounts, the Sims could sell those rewards and have the money to either get a better quality place, or they could repurchase the rewards after they move in. (I'm going to have a similar problem when I break up my Sims into two households -- storyline may be that one of them lost a bunch of the househomoney gambling on the stock market so he got kicked out to live on his own in a ratty apartment.)
Ah, I see what you mean, I hadn't thought of that.
Okay I don't know what's going on here but this is what I am trying to say:
Whoa< I think you need to look into the difference between subjective and objective opinions.
What most of us do here in this forum are all about subjective opinions, including you ( the one I quoted and then some ) and me.
I don't feel I have to defend and explain my subjective opinion because what I like about the new game won't change your subjective opinion not liking it. Discussion however is when both listen and learn.
This whole thing about " For Sims4 vs. Against Sims4 " isn't really going to change what the game is.
What I find tiring though is that almost all posts have some negativity in them. I know many ( like me ) have probably played the Sims for years and now feel very disappointed. In all honesty I did too at first but the more I get into the game the more I like it. For me, this is the first game that have other sims doing meaningful things without prompt. Ex. get into fights, hugs etc. It makes the whole community more alive to me. I miss the open world but it wasn't ideal either. If it had been the size of the neighborhoods we have today I think I would have been happier.
Anyhow, lol, I guess I gave you a rant why I like the game
I'd like to comment on this specifically.
In the previous games, the first 3 EPs have always been adult-heavy, with only the 4th EP starting to be more 'family-oriented'. (TS1 Vacation, TS2 Pets and TS3 Generations)
I would say you're right when it comes to TS3, however in TS2 a big part of open for business was crafting stations and one of them provided a significant amount of new toys to children. That being said it also felt less horrible, at least to me, simply because the release schedule had an EP every half a year instead of every year. GPs are alright, but they're very specific in theme (spa day for example, in an expansion that would be 1 out of like 5 different things and if you didn't like 1 feature out of 5, no biggie, but here if something very specific does not appeal to you, it's more tough luck and waiting) and stuff packs are rather generic. There's only so many chairs and tables you can get excited about when they fulfill the same function.
Because it's annoying and hard to ignore when people are flooding the forum with different variations of the same thing.
the last time I dropped by in the general discussions everyone was just being happy in their play. There's also quite a few "who is excited" topics in expansion section too. I don't really go there, because I'm not excited, so it's pretty easy to ignore. I do not understand why it's so difficult for you when it's the other way around.
TS2 didn't even have a true town.
It had a map. A 3D map. And yes, you could customize that map.
It's only purpose was to serve a 3D file cabinet to choose the lot you want to play and give you a mental image of what your complete town should look like if it was an actual world you could travel through.
we're sort of back to almost exactly this with TS4. The most amazing thing for me with TS3 was that they did manage to make a world maker tool, yet after downsizing for TS4, the neighborhoods are so convoluted that players can not design their own
And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
the thing is, what is currently being offered isn't exactly unique or unique enough. It's like they touch on a bunch of features that they touch on before but not as in depth. City Living is not new. It is a combination of Late Night, Nightlife, a bit of Apartment Life and a bit of Open for business, except without the lifestages that came with all of that. It's not like we're for the first time ever seeing inside a school, or having a carnival, or having a zoo, or growing exotic creatures, or managing a town...
It also does not help that the theme of expansion packs is very similar. For example, can you really tell me that Get Together would have looked out of place if it was merged into City Living?
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
In Sims 3, we could (well, theoretically) build apartments but we had no control over who our neighbors were -- they were game generated, you couldn't even go into their "apartments". The high-rises in Sims 3 were basically giant houses but you were limited to just a small part of them.
In Sims 4, we can't build the apartments but we have control over our neighbors -- I could kick out every premade in a building and place all of my own Sims. Since I'm just a mere player, and not an Exalted Builder, I guess my preferences don't really count. When you look at apartments in Sims 4, I think they came up to the best compromise they could. In a sense, an apartment building is a neighborhood within a neighborhood; you can go out into the common area (hallway, lobby) and even outside without a loading screen, but when you go into a 'house" (individual apartment unit) you encounter the loading screen. And since we can't create our own neighborhoods, we're not going to be able to create our own apartments.
It might be nice to eventually have some sort of feature to allow for limited apartment building in other worlds -- or at least be able to do duplexes or triplexes. But I'm okay with what we're getting in City Living when it comes to apartments, especially when you include the festivals, the new careers (including the ability to work from home so you don't lose progression if you want to take a day off)), and the new foods just for starters.
I understand that not everyone is happy with the way apartments were implemented -- but if it's a choice between the system we got and no apartments at all, I can live with the limitations. A single YA living in a single family home just isn't that realistic.
The control you have over your neighbors in apartments is no different than your control over your neighbors in Willow creek. What you are describing isn't an apartment system, it's an illusion that was created to mask the fact no apartment system was created for this pack.
The only things that separate apartments from regular lots are the severe restrictions and the 'set dressing' that surrounds each lot. There has been significant effort to inflate this component and honestly it's a very poorly designed feature. You're not getting functional apartments, as I said you're getting a dressed up lot that can house one household. Next 'unit' over is a completely separate lot.
TS2 apartments' system was an illusion too. Inge_Jones explained that it was in fact separate copies of the lot to create the illusion that they were several units on the same lot while you had in fact as many lots as you has units.
I could see every unit, and enter into it (with no loading screen too), so how is that an illusion? Completely different from CL where your apartments are regular lots disguised as something else.
You aren't moving into an apartment complex, you are moving into a lot. The neighbor next to you is a completely separate lot. Not a copy, a different lot. You want to visit your neighbor? Be prepared to lose access to your own apartment right next door. The appeal to CL apartments is limited to the 'gameplay' that's tied to apartment lots, which I am sure will be modded shortly after release and available on all residential lots.
So yeah, I'm sure AL did copy the lot as a way to keep unnecessary household data from being loaded when you aren't playing them, but the underlying structure was a much better representation of apartments in my opinion.
Me too! With a bank lot and a career, and more rental/mortgage options.
So would I @Neia ! With all the features and separate accounts and inventories mentioned by @stilljustme2 and ability to rent all residential lots mentioned by @Cinderellimouse ! For some time I have hoped to move YA sims to rented lots instead of owned lots, because in real life I think it is quite rare for a young adult to live in an owned home straight after moving out of parents' house. Also maybe our sims could be landlords: owning a property and renting it to other sims! I would like this very much!
@drake_mccarty
You entered a copy of the unit, and not the actual unit, which had some consequences on the persistence of what happened there. It was an illusion that you entered your neighbors' apartments. It wasn't their in fact. Just a copy of their.
I'm not saying CL works the same, but both use tricks to create an illusion.
After two years, I'm really bored of being told what my opinion about certain features not being in the game ought to be, and that I should be scared for the future. You know what? You don't get to dictate other people's preferences or opinions. And not everyone wants to buy the same game as we had before, with the same features, for another 5 years after doing it for 15 years before that. Because you know what? If everything returns that we had before? That's what you get. If they want to do that with Sims 5 so you can have your updated Sims 3 (or whatever version you prefer), you're welcome to it. I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game. And I'm so sick of being told I shouldn't want that.
Then defend it. I just got done linking this and you apparently did not read it and did exactly what it says. Acknowledging that you're entitled to an opinion does nothing to address the criticisms raised or to defend aspects you like. Sure enough, your post is devoid of any concrete arguments or statements, failing to both counter any criticisms said and to actually defend your own stance.
If you cannot defend your own stance, it's probably a bad stance. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but some opinions are just bad opinions. If you cannot even explain why you like something or why a critic is wrong in a logical, coherent way...? You should probably reflect on why that is. I can already pick apart the post above:
I'm going to buy and enjoy a fresh game.
What is fresh about Sims 4?!? The only feature in Sims 4 that is entirely new to the Sims franchise is the clubs system of Get Together, but sadly that one relies on basegame features to support it; stick that feature in Sims 3 and I promise you it'd perform better since you can make clubs of Genies that banish sims from lots or clubs of Aliens that summon meteors. Sims 4 lacks actually gameplay content, so clubs remain the only new feature. That's it. Even the "revolutionary" moods system is more or less Sims 3 moodlets expanded to have a couple more dimensions to it, but even so Sims 3 had moodlets that were often more powerful or meaningful. (Death of a loved one activated new interactions, being cheated on meant automatic refusal of all romantic interactions and many negative interactions for friendy ones for it's duration, creeped out did the same, etc etc) It's already copying past iterations, it's just doing a terrible, half-complete job of it.
Wanna do a comparison...? Within the first three expansions for Sims 2, the revolutionary features we got were university studies, commercial lots in their entirety (and cars), and owning and running a business. In the first three expansions for Sims 3, we got adventure quests, we got active careers for the first time, and then Late Night was actually sparse on content but Bridgeport did deliver the first "city" experience of it's kind, thus people overlooked the lack of features themselves. Sims 4...? We're coming in on expansion pack #3 and only one of those three has done something new.
This is exactly why I'm gonna start putting that link everywhere: Empty "I'm entitled to my opinion" statements do nothing to actually justify said opinion. You just said Sims 4 is a "fresh game," but name no examples of how it's fresh at all. It's an empty, hollow compliment that isn't even deserved.
And to be a broken record once more...? Consumer bias is a thing. There was an actual accredited study that showed consumers are often reluctant to admit the failures of a product they love or that they vouched for because it's subconciously registered as a personal failure and as evidence for one's own faults. Yes, I would propose that if someone cannot even justify their love of Sims 4 or their positive opinions of it and simply delivers "I'm entitled to my opinion" or "I just like it ok," then why on earth am I to believe you're not just being defensive because you like the Sims franchise?Being defensive and sweeping the problems under the rug solves nothing. Heck, it encourages EA to keep doing what they're doing because they see they can get away with it. Let's not kid ourselves: it's a faceless corporation. The exact same faceless corporation that withheld press copies on release when they realized they had a dud product on their hands, so as to ensure press reviews didn't lead to a loss in profit or people retracting their pre-orders. You give a faceless corporation room to get more money from you for less work? Yes, it will totally do it. That's not a critique of EA in particular, that's not a critique that extends to the personalities of it's individual workers, but it's absolutely the way the world works.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
In Sims 3, we could (well, theoretically) build apartments but we had no control over who our neighbors were -- they were game generated, you couldn't even go into their "apartments". The high-rises in Sims 3 were basically giant houses but you were limited to just a small part of them.
In Sims 4, we can't build the apartments but we have control over our neighbors -- I could kick out every premade in a building and place all of my own Sims. Since I'm just a mere player, and not an Exalted Builder, I guess my preferences don't really count. When you look at apartments in Sims 4, I think they came up to the best compromise they could. In a sense, an apartment building is a neighborhood within a neighborhood; you can go out into the common area (hallway, lobby) and even outside without a loading screen, but when you go into a 'house" (individual apartment unit) you encounter the loading screen. And since we can't create our own neighborhoods, we're not going to be able to create our own apartments.
It might be nice to eventually have some sort of feature to allow for limited apartment building in other worlds -- or at least be able to do duplexes or triplexes. But I'm okay with what we're getting in City Living when it comes to apartments, especially when you include the festivals, the new careers (including the ability to work from home so you don't lose progression if you want to take a day off)), and the new foods just for starters.
I understand that not everyone is happy with the way apartments were implemented -- but if it's a choice between the system we got and no apartments at all, I can live with the limitations. A single YA living in a single family home just isn't that realistic.
The control you have over your neighbors in apartments is no different than your control over your neighbors in Willow creek. What you are describing isn't an apartment system, it's an illusion that was created to mask the fact no apartment system was created for this pack.
The only things that separate apartments from regular lots are the severe restrictions and the 'set dressing' that surrounds each lot. There has been significant effort to inflate this component and honestly it's a very poorly designed feature. You're not getting functional apartments, as I said you're getting a dressed up lot that can house one household. Next 'unit' over is a completely separate lot.
YES! Myself and several others have been beating our heads against the glee club's wall about this feature since it was announced and people just don't seem to get it! It's an illusion- a set dressing- you can meet your neighbors NOW in Willow Creek and Oasis in the exact same way, just wait for them to come out of their houses. The only, slight, difference is an elevated menu of chosen/random interactions between your sim and the neighbors which in no way has to be limited to this new design. You could walk down the street in Oasis and hear music blaring out of someone's home if they chose to patch it in. You could have cheap pipes or electrical or a mouse anywhere. And that's all the new there is in this set up. There's nothing truly communal about it- no shared laundry room/ club house/ pool/ gym/ small store in the lobby and on and on. AND all your interactions with your neighbors, that I have seen so far take place ON THE SAME FLOOR- lol! Just like in any neighborhood- everyone is on the same level and only the view tells you that you are above ground. They're not apartments- this pack doesn't have apartment- it's just a new cosmetic overlay.
EDIT: AND NO! They don't have roommates either- lol.
Comments
I don't owe you anything. That's not an excuse. I'm not playing. I'll make it easy for you though. You win.
Demanded how? You came in this thread, a thread clearly criticizing City Life!! How the hell are you gonna come in a thread like this, post quoting me, and then act like I must have some nerve to respond to you after you quoted me and you started speaking with me?
Is this a joke??
And how is this "the same complaints?" The thread is about City Living!! It's an expansion pack we've only known about for about two months!!
I'm sorry but face the music: your arguments here are poor. You're rewording the exact same fallacy. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying that because if everyone just refuses to face criticism of the game, then there's no demand for improvement.
Everyone can agree more content is good. But we all value different types of content differently and that's where the falling out begins.
>>My build showcase thread<< and my newest creation Modern Celebrity Mansion, 1 Torendi Tower Penthouse, Sea Breeze Animal Clinic, and many more!
Not playing, sorry. I'll explain my opinions when I want to, not on order. And you can stop ordering me to now.
Hey buddy...you seem to have elected yourself the Grande Poobah of the Forum Debate Police, but fail to comprehend that some people aren't interested in engaging your demands to defend their opinions until they meet your satisfaction. Perhaps you should lighten up a little. Nobody owes you an explanation, nor do they need your approval to enjoy their games.
Let people have their opinions, 'kay?
In Sims 3, we could (well, theoretically) build apartments but we had no control over who our neighbors were -- they were game generated, you couldn't even go into their "apartments". The high-rises in Sims 3 were basically giant houses but you were limited to just a small part of them.
In Sims 4, we can't build the apartments but we have control over our neighbors -- I could kick out every premade in a building and place all of my own Sims. Since I'm just a mere player, and not an Exalted Builder, I guess my preferences don't really count. When you look at apartments in Sims 4, I think they came up to the best compromise they could. In a sense, an apartment building is a neighborhood within a neighborhood; you can go out into the common area (hallway, lobby) and even outside without a loading screen, but when you go into a 'house" (individual apartment unit) you encounter the loading screen. And since we can't create our own neighborhoods, we're not going to be able to create our own apartments.
It might be nice to eventually have some sort of feature to allow for limited apartment building in other worlds -- or at least be able to do duplexes or triplexes. But I'm okay with what we're getting in City Living when it comes to apartments, especially when you include the festivals, the new careers (including the ability to work from home so you don't lose progression if you want to take a day off)), and the new foods just for starters.
I understand that not everyone is happy with the way apartments were implemented -- but if it's a choice between the system we got and no apartments at all, I can live with the limitations. A single YA living in a single family home just isn't that realistic.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I don't know about anyone else but I'm just here for the pannetone.
Great thoughts on GTW -- maybe Retail could have been done as a game pack, or even combined with Dine Out in some way so you could own multiple stores and open/close them remotely like you can restaurants, and not have to be on site all the time.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Your ideas with hidden room markers sound great! Already having separate funds for businesses in TS4 makes me hopeful that there will be more functionality with separating funds (for example, separate funds for roommates and different accounts for sims) in the future. I think it could potentially open up more gameplay ideas like kids having weekly allowance and places to spend it at, and a teen saving money for moving out. It is one of my pet peeves that every sim moving out of a household gets the Starter 20.000 Simoleons from out of nowhere. I really think we need better tools for the finances! Which is a point for an entire new ideas thread already
The control you have over your neighbors in apartments is no different than your control over your neighbors in Willow creek. What you are describing isn't an apartment system, it's an illusion that was created to mask the fact no apartment system was created for this pack.
The only things that separate apartments from regular lots are the severe restrictions and the 'set dressing' that surrounds each lot. There has been significant effort to inflate this component and honestly it's a very poorly designed feature. You're not getting functional apartments, as I said you're getting a dressed up lot that can house one household. Next 'unit' over is a completely separate lot.
Dude that's ridiculous. You cannot go into a thread, start a conversation with someone, and then the moment they ask you to justify your claim, you act like the person is being outrageous and demanding things of you.
You started speaking to me. If you cannot justify anything you say, don't say it.
You claimed Sims 4 has new features that past iterations didn't. If you cannot justify that statement, don't say it. This isn't me being a jerk for demanding that evidence, that's how the world works. A teacher will ask you to justify your claims, a voter will ask a politician to justify their claims, a customer hiring an electrician might want to hear evidence the electrician knows their stuff. A student that refuses to answer gets an F, a politician that can't provide evidence loses the election and a worker that can't showcase their expertise loses a customer.
If you want to make whatever statement you want without ever having to justify it, then there's nothing stopping you from telling people Sims 4 lets you ride dragons (it doesn't) and nothing stopping me from claiming Sims 4 gives your computer malware and steals your credit card info. (it doesn't)
People naturally demand that you justify claims made. If you cannot do that? Don't make such claims. If you cannot handle a debate? Don't purposefully go into a thread that clearly advertises itself as being upset with City Living, quote somebody and address them specifically, and then act like that person is outrageous when they respond to you. Nobody made you come in here, nobody made you start talking to me, nobody did any of that.
Go on and be on your way if you don't wanna have this discussion, but don't act like this is somehow everyone else's fault and not your own. You're the one that started the conversation, you're the one that made baseless claims.
I would really love to have individual accounts for Sims, maybe starting when Sims are teens -- it would make getting a part-time job more meaningful where teen Sims could earn their own spending money for taking a date out to dinner, or buying items (especially with the Flea Market). It could also solve the issue of losing career rewards when you move from one household to another; I just moved a couple of my Sims into their own place from their parents' house so I could focus on their development before moving them to San Myshuno. Both of them had to leave career rewards behind because they were in "household inventory". If we had individual accounts, the Sims could sell those rewards and have the money to either get a better quality place, or they could repurchase the rewards after they move in. (I'm going to have a similar problem when I break up my Sims into two households -- storyline may be that one of them lost a bunch of the househomoney gambling on the stock market so he got kicked out to live on his own in a ratty apartment.)
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
TS2 apartments' system was an illusion too. Inge_Jones explained that it was in fact separate copies of the lot to create the illusion that they were several units on the same lot while you had in fact as many lots as you has units.
Yes, I agree with everything you're saying here. Individual funds could be handy for lots of different scenarios, especially if they are a basic feature of all households, and not something restricted to a specific lot like dorms. And the starter 20 000 annoys me too, I hope if/when we do get a uni expansion that we have to apply for scholarships and stuff again, it was always a bit of a struggle to scrape together the money in TS2 and I'd fill their inventories with furniture and things to sell before they left (unless you sold the dorm's furniture, lol!). I'm glad we can rent now in CL but I wish it was an option on all residential lots.
Me too! With a bank lot and a career, and more rental/mortgage options.
Ah, I see what you mean, I hadn't thought of that.
Whoa< I think you need to look into the difference between subjective and objective opinions.
What most of us do here in this forum are all about subjective opinions, including you ( the one I quoted and then some ) and me.
I don't feel I have to defend and explain my subjective opinion because what I like about the new game won't change your subjective opinion not liking it. Discussion however is when both listen and learn.
This whole thing about " For Sims4 vs. Against Sims4 " isn't really going to change what the game is.
What I find tiring though is that almost all posts have some negativity in them. I know many ( like me ) have probably played the Sims for years and now feel very disappointed. In all honesty I did too at first but the more I get into the game the more I like it. For me, this is the first game that have other sims doing meaningful things without prompt. Ex. get into fights, hugs etc. It makes the whole community more alive to me. I miss the open world but it wasn't ideal either. If it had been the size of the neighborhoods we have today I think I would have been happier.
Anyhow, lol, I guess I gave you a rant why I like the game
I would say you're right when it comes to TS3, however in TS2 a big part of open for business was crafting stations and one of them provided a significant amount of new toys to children. That being said it also felt less horrible, at least to me, simply because the release schedule had an EP every half a year instead of every year. GPs are alright, but they're very specific in theme (spa day for example, in an expansion that would be 1 out of like 5 different things and if you didn't like 1 feature out of 5, no biggie, but here if something very specific does not appeal to you, it's more tough luck and waiting) and stuff packs are rather generic. There's only so many chairs and tables you can get excited about when they fulfill the same function.
the last time I dropped by in the general discussions everyone was just being happy in their play. There's also quite a few "who is excited" topics in expansion section too. I don't really go there, because I'm not excited, so it's pretty easy to ignore. I do not understand why it's so difficult for you when it's the other way around.
to get people to see that if we're okay with supporting a franchise even if that doesn't satisfy us completely, then EA has no reason to change.
we're sort of back to almost exactly this with TS4. The most amazing thing for me with TS3 was that they did manage to make a world maker tool, yet after downsizing for TS4, the neighborhoods are so convoluted that players can not design their own
the thing is, what is currently being offered isn't exactly unique or unique enough. It's like they touch on a bunch of features that they touch on before but not as in depth. City Living is not new. It is a combination of Late Night, Nightlife, a bit of Apartment Life and a bit of Open for business, except without the lifestages that came with all of that. It's not like we're for the first time ever seeing inside a school, or having a carnival, or having a zoo, or growing exotic creatures, or managing a town...
It also does not help that the theme of expansion packs is very similar. For example, can you really tell me that Get Together would have looked out of place if it was merged into City Living?
I could see every unit, and enter into it (with no loading screen too), so how is that an illusion? Completely different from CL where your apartments are regular lots disguised as something else.
You aren't moving into an apartment complex, you are moving into a lot. The neighbor next to you is a completely separate lot. Not a copy, a different lot. You want to visit your neighbor? Be prepared to lose access to your own apartment right next door. The appeal to CL apartments is limited to the 'gameplay' that's tied to apartment lots, which I am sure will be modded shortly after release and available on all residential lots.
So yeah, I'm sure AL did copy the lot as a way to keep unnecessary household data from being loaded when you aren't playing them, but the underlying structure was a much better representation of apartments in my opinion.
So would I @Neia ! With all the features and separate accounts and inventories mentioned by @stilljustme2 and ability to rent all residential lots mentioned by @Cinderellimouse ! For some time I have hoped to move YA sims to rented lots instead of owned lots, because in real life I think it is quite rare for a young adult to live in an owned home straight after moving out of parents' house. Also maybe our sims could be landlords: owning a property and renting it to other sims!
You entered a copy of the unit, and not the actual unit, which had some consequences on the persistence of what happened there. It was an illusion that you entered your neighbors' apartments. It wasn't their in fact. Just a copy of their.
I'm not saying CL works the same, but both use tricks to create an illusion.
Wow, so much true here!
YES! Myself and several others have been beating our heads against the glee club's wall about this feature since it was announced and people just don't seem to get it! It's an illusion- a set dressing- you can meet your neighbors NOW in Willow Creek and Oasis in the exact same way, just wait for them to come out of their houses. The only, slight, difference is an elevated menu of chosen/random interactions between your sim and the neighbors which in no way has to be limited to this new design. You could walk down the street in Oasis and hear music blaring out of someone's home if they chose to patch it in. You could have cheap pipes or electrical or a mouse anywhere. And that's all the new there is in this set up. There's nothing truly communal about it- no shared laundry room/ club house/ pool/ gym/ small store in the lobby and on and on. AND all your interactions with your neighbors, that I have seen so far take place ON THE SAME FLOOR- lol! Just like in any neighborhood- everyone is on the same level and only the view tells you that you are above ground. They're not apartments- this pack doesn't have apartment- it's just a new cosmetic overlay.
EDIT: AND NO! They don't have roommates either- lol.