I'm truly excited about all the new content and features and not at all concerned about reusing existing content in different ways. I think I'm getting enough new stuff to warrant spending $40. As for Sims 5, I don't see that happening any time soon.
that is the thing. You're excited for it and so are many others. Despite the flaws, plenty of sims fans will just gobble it up. So why should the next EP be any better? And why should the next iteration be any fuller of content if they can sell you games with incomplete features?
The thing is though I honestly don't see it as flawed and incomplete. Yes, for whatever reasons, there are features not included in this version but that doesn't make it incomplete. At least not for me. Bottom line is I'm having fun with Sims 4. That's all that matters to me.
Yes, that matters to you and most get that and that is good for you. However not all feel the same as you and that matters for them.
Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
You make it sound like it's all the fault of the people who enjoy it though (irks me enough to speak - sorry), but there are people who see it as fatally flawed because they can't build apartments or their own festivals or plain just don't like it who will buy it anyway. It's not just 'the fault' of one group of people.
Yes, it will sell. No, they'll never feel obliged to change it to be what you wish it was (and chances are if they were losing money on it they'd cut and run rather than throw more money at the problem). It's all a matter of perspective in the reality of the situation. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. All of the iterations have had their faults. TS4 is no exception and nor will future iterations be so.
As a further note one of the things most complained about with TS3 was that it was too YA centric. The more things change....
what you seem to not getting Neia, is the fact that EA will not have a single logical reason to ever do terrain tools, or toddlers, or buildable apartments, if people buy expansions and base game for that matter WITHOUT them. My question is, if we're so happy with how things are now then what can we live without in the next iteration?
There's a lot of things I could live without in the next iteration actually. You seem to think of the playerbase a one homogeneous group that all want the same thing, and a bunch of traitor who keep buying and ruining it for the rest. But the playerbase isn't an homogeneous group ! You say you wouldn't want no terrain tools ? I'm glad we don't have any terrain tools and all lots are flat, I never used terrain tools except to make the terrain flat when it wasn't. No terrain tool means I don't have to do this, I don't have akward slope at the edge of the terrain, I can put any lots of the gallery. No terrain tools is a net gain as far as I'm concern. And if that means they can do something else instead, it's even better. I also don't care about deviant play, supernatural, CaST, open world, collecting, exploring and most NPCs. Some other people do.
I'm buying this EP because I like what I see. I find it solid, and I think I will have fun playing with it. For me, it's worth the price tag, it's as simple as that. I'm also writing a more detailed feedback on this forum to tell Maxis more precisely what I'm liking from this EP and what I'm not liking. Buildable apartments isn't the be all and end all of my Sims expectations. It would have been fun, I would have liked it, but there's a lot of other things I like too.
I'm very much conscious that buying means approving, and that's exactly why I'm buying. I want quality, themes I care about, integration with the rest of the game and things that I find fun, and I will buy packs that match this.
and Neia, you're perfectly fine with them downsizing iteration after iteration? You see nothing wrong with that at all? That is exactly what strikes me as unbelievably odd. You're willing to pay the same amount for less and less. And there are many people like you. So why should EA even try?
and Neia, you're perfectly fine with them downsizing iteration after iteration? You see nothing wrong with that at all? That is exactly what strikes me as unbelievably odd. You're willing to pay the same amount for less and less. And there are many people like you. So why should EA even try?
Downsizing from your perspective. From mine, it's not, it's getting bigger. I see nothing wrong with the game going into a direction that appear bigger for me and smaller for others though. And I'm paying the same amount for more in fact : Apartments/Lots traits/Traits/Festivals/Careers > Apartments/Building Apartments/Careers for me.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
I don't really understand what you're trying to say. I mean, it's not our fault that EA delivered a "half-baked" sims game, is it? we're just trying to make do with what we're getting and have fun in the meantime. If you want to blame anyone .. blame the head honchos in charge, not the consumers.
In Late Night if I remember correctly there was only one functioning apartment which was your sim's. You couldn't visit neighbors at all and it felt not like TS2 Apartment Life, it felt like living alone on top of a mountain to me. There were callboxes but I felt like the neighbors were there just for decoration - they didn't have the functionality that I would have hoped them to have. I read that they function the same way as homeless NPC sims basically. In that respect I am already getting more of what I want in this version of apartments than in TS3 version. I can visit my neighbors again and I'm expecting more sense of a community when living in an apartment. I think it is a matter of opinion and us simmers wanting different things.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
An EP isn't "a" feature, it's a combination of features. Even if some of these are smaller/absent, it doesn't mean the whole EP is smaller, there are new/expanded features too. And smaller/bigger depends on your expectations anyway, I don't care if some features go from forgettable to absent, that won't impact my overall enjoyment of the pack. And if it "gets worse" because of the removal of some other features that are forgettable for me, I don't care. As long as the EP is fun, the theme is something I enjoy and the quality is there, I'll buy it.
They are most likely carefuly choosing their features to satisfy as many people as possible while staying in the budget. If a particular feature bring more sales than it costs to make it, and it can fit into the schedule/with the ressources available/other constraints they may have, they will most likely do it, because there isn't any reason for them not to either.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
I think you just need to accept that a lot of people are looking forward to this expansion pack and no amount of pleading on your part is going to change that. You really just need to get over it. I am sorry you're disappointed and underwhelmed, but that is really none of my business and I don't particularly care.
People are not excited for the sake of it - people are excited because they like what they see.
Maybe, perhaps, we don't care if we can't build our own apartments, or like a young adult partying game
(Not everyone who bought it though, just some).
and how this is now the 3rd EP to do mostly with adult living and having a good time.
I'd like to comment on this specifically.
In the previous games, the first 3 EPs have always been adult-heavy, with only the 4th EP starting to be more 'family-oriented'. (TS1 Vacation, TS2 Pets and TS3 Generations)
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
I think you just need to accept that a lot of people are looking forward to this expansion pack and no amount of pleading on your part is going to change that. You really just need to get over it. I am sorry you're disappointed and underwhelmed, but that is really none of my business and I don't particularly care.
People are not excited for the sake of it - people are excited because they like what they see.
And yet, you keep calling people out with complaints about the pack and telling them to "get over it" and move on. Hmm.... seems you do care quite a bit, otherwise why not just let it go, yourself?
You make it sound like it's all the fault of the people who enjoy it though (irks me enough to speak - sorry), but there are people who see it as fatally flawed because they can't build apartments or their own festivals or plain just don't like it who will buy it anyway. It's not just 'the fault' of one group of people.
Yes, it will sell. No, they'll never feel obliged to change it to be what you wish it was (and chances are if they were losing money on it they'd cut and run rather than throw more money at the problem). It's all a matter of perspective in the reality of the situation. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. All of the iterations have had their faults. TS4 is no exception and nor will future iterations be so.
As a further note one of the things most complained about with TS3 was that it was too YA centric. The more things change....
Yes, this is true for myself to an extent- I don't find the pack fatally flawed due to the "apartment" situation, just woefully underdone on that situation but in the end I just take the pack as not having apartments, since essentially it doesn't. And this iteration never will have them. It just has the current neighborhood set up redesigned for this pack. A pack slanted heavily toward RPG as opposed to designing your own game. It'll be easier for people who don't like to build/ make their own stories/ create a world/ design events for their sims ect. to "play" this game just like any other RPG. Chose a character and then play though the stories that the developers have set up AND locked into place for you to play. The base game is limited and problematic to use it would seem from everything to date- essentially a mid-range game engine in my opinion designed to kill time and collect stuff and wait for the next monthly release of tweaked content. It's Farmville XL.
So, you know, I'll buy it- on sale- for a price I deem the content is worth and it'll be essentially a "Store World" with the Selling Table/Food Booths as the "premium object". So, (shrug) it's what it is.
I'm truly excited about all the new content and features and not at all concerned about reusing existing content in different ways. I think I'm getting enough new stuff to warrant spending $40. As for Sims 5, I don't see that happening any time soon.
that is the thing. You're excited for it and so are many others. Despite the flaws, plenty of sims fans will just gobble it up. So why should the next EP be any better? And why should the next iteration be any fuller of content if they can sell you games with incomplete features?
The thing is though I honestly don't see it as flawed and incomplete. Yes, for whatever reasons, there are features not included in this version but that doesn't make it incomplete. At least not for me. Bottom line is I'm having fun with Sims 4. That's all that matters to me.
Yes, that matters to you and most get that and that is good for you. However not all feel the same as you and that matters for them.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
I think you just need to accept that a lot of people are looking forward to this expansion pack and no amount of pleading on your part is going to change that. You really just need to get over it. I am sorry you're disappointed and underwhelmed, but that is really none of my business and I don't particularly care.
People are not excited for the sake of it - people are excited because they like what they see.
And yet, you keep calling people out with complaints about the pack and telling them to "get over it" and move on. Hmm.... seems you do care quite a bit, otherwise why not just let it go, yourself?
Because it's annoying and hard to ignore when people are flooding the forum with different variations of the same thing.
there's nothing bigger about reducing what you can do with a feature compared to a previous iteration, removing features all together from base game and reusing base game in order to produce just another way to use old content instead of making new content. So no, it's objectively downsizing. And it's just going to get worse next time around. Oh you can still change the interior walls in the apartments? Prepare to lose that next time around. We're no longer even guaranteeing two apartments per building. Now it's 1-3. Meaning next time around people will be happy with just buying apartments with 1.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
I think you just need to accept that a lot of people are looking forward to this expansion pack and no amount of pleading on your part is going to change that. You really just need to get over it. I am sorry you're disappointed and underwhelmed, but that is really none of my business and I don't particularly care.
People are not excited for the sake of it - people are excited because they like what they see.
And yet, you keep calling people out with complaints about the pack and telling them to "get over it" and move on. Hmm.... seems you do care quite a bit, otherwise why not just let it go, yourself?
Because it's annoying and hard to ignore when people are flooding the forum with different variations of the same thing.
It's really not that hard to ignore. I have my problems with this pack and have had a lot of complaints about it BUT I was really excited for GT and a big booster of that one- lots of other people weren't and it didn't bother me in the least. If they wanted to complain it was fine and I just ignored it and went on posting about the good things I saw coming and what I planned to do. My excitement for what was coming more than overshadowed their disappointment in my eyes. Anyway, not to say you can't post what you want, because you can but I think others should do so as well.
and how this is now the 3rd EP to do mostly with adult living and having a good time.
I'd like to comment on this specifically.
In the previous games, the first 3 EPs have always been adult-heavy, with only the 4th EP starting to be more 'family-oriented'. (TS1 Vacation, TS2 Pets and TS3 Generations)
So this is a pattern EA must adhere to but the 20 expansions that all included a life state before Get Together was "just a coincidence?" C'mon....
People are uncomfortable with the idea of a beloved franchise getting worse or dropping in quality. Thus, even in the face of that, many people deny it. Many hold out hope "the future will be better, just you wait," or refuse to acknowledge lost features as a bad thing, even praising a lack of a certain feature (example, "I'm glad toddlers were gone, I hated them,"), failing to acknowledge that even if you didn't enjoy such a feature personally, the lack of that feature is alarming because clearly it has little to do with appealing to the masses and more to do with cutting corners.
Also? People on this forum really need to check this out. I'm about to start linking it in every thread I visit. Reading the above conversation is painful, because even if you care to argue that City Living has "more features" than a S3 expansion for example (VERY debateable, but let's ignore that for a second) and that whichever has more features is "just ur opinion maaaaan," it fails to acknowledge the objective truth that there are indeed specific features missing that have been present in EVERY former Sims game and should not be too difficult to include, yet they don't. Again that should be alarming, and again, saying "just ur opinion maaaaaan" is more or less a way to bow out of a conversation and avoid having to discuss something further when you yourself have no defense against your opposition's claims.
... it fails to acknowledge the objective truth that there are indeed specific features missing that have been present in EVERY former Sims game and should not be too difficult to include, yet they don't.
On what objective grounds do you know this? Do you know the point at which the EP's concept becomes financially unsustainable? Do you know which other feature would be given up, resulting in reduced, not increased sales? Do you know how the new pack concepts are performing financially compared to the old ones? Do you know the cost-benefit analysis for the City Living EP?
Personally, I don't want features to be included if they end up being just a lip-service version of that feature. I want great, fully developed features that meet their potential. If that means a change in add-on structure, bring it on. And that is my opinion. You don't have to share it, but it's just as valid and objective as yours.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
Yes, and acknowledging that does nothing to actually defend your own opinion or counter someone's claims that contradict your own. I'm sorry, but your opinion should be justified. If you cannot justify it in a coherent way, it may be a bad opinion. If I were to say "the sky is usually blue" and you were to say "the sky is usually pink" and then I follow up my opinion with facts and data and tangible evidence that in the majority of the world, the sky is typically blue, and then your response is "just ur opinion maaaaaaaan," gee, I wonder if your opinion is just plain bad and indefensible.
The exact same applies here and to these forums. Take the above discussion. One user states the loss of terrain tools is alarming, another says "that's good in my opinion and that's my opinion so ur not allowed to tell me we need them." Objectively speaking, whether you like them or not, their absence should be alarming. It is a net loss in features that was never explained or justified. I mean I'm not big on family play so I personally don't care too much about toddlers, but does their absence alarm me? Heck yeah it does, because if the team managing the Sims 4 saw fit to prioritize a rocket ship or cupcake factory over including toddlers, then the sims team has really weird priorities. Even if you were a huge fan of space travel or of cupcakes and you love that trade off, it IS a FACT that the majority of players would consider that trade very awkward, weird and ill-informed from the development team. The constant threads asking for toddlers is a testament to that, as is the logical conclusion that if feature X is in the past two iterations of the game, people will probably have grown accustomed to feature X and expect it in Sims 4. IF EA had avoided toddlers and then the result was a bunch of people praising EA and thanking them for listening to their requests, then things would be different. Then, even if you lament the loss and consider it features lost, you'd have evidence right in front of you that it was by popular request that they were removed, thus it can't really be used as an example of "missing features with no explanation." Toddlers are missing, that is a net loss and they told us why: because it was either cut toddlers or cut other features. Ok, fair enough, but I am firmly of the belief (as are the majority of customers, apparently) that if you cannot make the time for a basic life stage of human life when making a LIFE SIMULATOR, then your project could clearly be managed better.
That's not rocket science to comprehend that stance I just wrote, and guess what? The opposition will come in and justify their opinion that it's good toddlers are gone with "jus ur opinion maaaaaaaaan." See that? That's why some opinions are strictly bad opinions. A debate and a discussion are ways to test your stance on a matter by letting it face other opposing views. It's a chance to challenge your views and see if they're warranted. Here on these forums though, time and time again, people insist that if it's their opinion that it snows more in July than it does in February and that all others need to treat that opinion with respect and never ever ever question it.
and how this is now the 3rd EP to do mostly with adult living and having a good time.
I'd like to comment on this specifically.
In the previous games, the first 3 EPs have always been adult-heavy, with only the 4th EP starting to be more 'family-oriented'. (TS1 Vacation, TS2 Pets and TS3 Generations)
So this is a pattern EA must adhere to but the 20 expansions that all included a life state before Get Together was "just a coincidence?" C'mon...
I just mentioned it because I totally expected it this time as well... EA always adds stuff for the adults first, it's no surprise they prefer this life stage more since it was always considered the 'main' life stage that can pretty much do whatever they want...
I wouldn't mind if they broke the 'tradition' and added a family EP earlier but I didn't expect them to, especially in this iteration...
That's not rocket science to comprehend that stance I just wrote, and guess what? The opposition will come in and justify their opinion that it's good toddlers are gone with "jus ur opinion maaaaaaaaan." See that? That's why some opinions are strictly bad opinions. A debate and a discussion are ways to test your stance on a matter by letting it face other opposing views. It's a chance to challenge your views and see if they're warranted. Here on these forums though, time and time again, people insist that if it's their opinion that it snows more in July than it does in February and that all others need to treat that opinion with respect and never ever ever question it.
I don't believe there are good or bad opinions. We can just explain our views on why we like and don't like a certain feature or why it is or is not important to our gameplay. The inclusion of toddlers and open world did not make TS3 a better game for me, because for me the experience of actual gameplay was a laggy mess with not enough emphasis/poor implementation of the features which I had liked in TS2 (apartments, celebrity system, rotational play). For me TS2 was a better game. For many others the experience was different, I know it because I come to the forums and people say they like TS3, and I respect their opinion and agree with at least some points they make.
It doesn't make my experience with TS3 invalid, it doesn't invalidate the reasons many people think TS3 is their favorite game - we just have different opinions and I like to come to the forum to share mine, and read what others think.
... it fails to acknowledge the objective truth that there are indeed specific features missing that have been present in EVERY former Sims game and should not be too difficult to include, yet they don't.
On what objective grounds do you know this? Do you know the point at which the EP's concept becomes financially unsustainable? Do you know which other feature would be given up, resulting in reduced, not increased sales? Do you know how the new pack concepts are performing financially compared to the old ones? Do you know the cost-benefit analysis for the City Living EP?
Personally, I don't want features to be included if they end up being just a lip-service version of that feature. I want great, fully developed features that meet their potential. If that means a change in add-on structure, bring it on. And that is my opinion. You don't have to share it, but it's just as valid and objective as yours.
@luthienrising And how do apartments rank in your criteria listed above with this pack? Or festivals for that matter? Or player dictated environment and style? This pack does nothing but pay lip service in all of it's key features to date. We have still not learned much about Lot Traits but that's the last thing to truly have an opportunity to perform and shine and set itself apart as THE key feature of this expansion. And, this pack fits in exactly with how they were described recently by Rachel- broad but not deep. They tried to touch on everything (paying lip service imo) without fully developing any of it which is the "not deep" part she talked about. If what you have just written is true- then you should in fact be the biggest critic of this pack, not it's greatest supporter. None of it is fully developed- it's broad but not deep.
They certainly know how to get people to buy. One of the most talked about features of this pack is the crafts table with the ability to sell items on your home lot.
People have been asking for home retail since they excluded it in GTW and now instead of patching something in for those of us who have already spent 40 dollars on a retail pack, they will include a way to sell things on your home lot in this pack, asking for another 40 bucks. It's really effed up.
But that's an opinion that can be explained. A major trade that Sims 2 and Sims 3 did is that Sims 2 provided superior customization of your town, whereas Sims 3 traded that away for rabbit holes, but in exchange it got story progression and one giant interconnected town instead of lots and loading screens. It's understandable some would like Sims 2 better because if you enjoy customizing your town without having to access a create-a-world tool or the like, Sims 2 is superior.
Sims 2 vs. Sims 3 was quid pro quo. For every feature Sims 3 lost, it gained a new one entirely. Which you prefer just depends on which features you enjoy.
Sims 4? We don't have firefighters for crying out loud. We don't have burglars or police. The game is often a hollow shell of basic features that all past games had. Even Sims 1!! And that game is usually horrendously outdated.
And look, I'm not arguing "Sims 4 is a terrible game because a good game needs firefighters and police," I'm just saying those are representative of a constant issue: missing features that seem incredibly odd when absent. I mean I cannot stress the firefighters example enough because if you have a single sim and they catch on fire with no shower in sight, it's game over. Regardless of if you consider that example a big deal or no, the philosophy behind that example extends to toddlers, and to terrain tools, and to police, and to cars, and to carpools, etc etc etc.
You simply cannot deny that Sims 4 is a net loss compared to past titles. People have argued in the past that this is only because Sims 4 doesn't have the expansions the others had yet. Compare the games at launch and compare the base games only: it's a net loss, with Sims 4 failing to offer any revolutionary new features to reduce it to preference.
Fast forward...? We are on expansion pack 3 and EVERY single expansion has failed to be as well received as their Sims 2 and Sims 3 counterparts. GTW has as many careers as Showtime (the worst Sims 3 expanion), Get Together's club system is a cool idea but it does not stand on it's own two feet very well (it needs the game to have content before it can really shine), and City Living seems to pale in comparison to Apartment Life and Late Night. Honestly, Late Night was very light on features and shouldn't be difficult to beat, yet Sims 4 struggles once again....
Time and time again, features turn up missing. That's hardly an opinion at all. Even if you were to argue that by some amazing coincidence, EVERY missing feature thusfar is something you hated or didn't care about, the pattern of features missing SHOULD be alarming. You never know when a feature you enjoyed could be the next addition to the missing features list.
Comments
Yes, it will sell. No, they'll never feel obliged to change it to be what you wish it was (and chances are if they were losing money on it they'd cut and run rather than throw more money at the problem). It's all a matter of perspective in the reality of the situation. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. All of the iterations have had their faults. TS4 is no exception and nor will future iterations be so.
As a further note one of the things most complained about with TS3 was that it was too YA centric. The more things change....
There's a lot of things I could live without in the next iteration actually. You seem to think of the playerbase a one homogeneous group that all want the same thing, and a bunch of traitor who keep buying and ruining it for the rest. But the playerbase isn't an homogeneous group ! You say you wouldn't want no terrain tools ? I'm glad we don't have any terrain tools and all lots are flat, I never used terrain tools except to make the terrain flat when it wasn't. No terrain tool means I don't have to do this, I don't have akward slope at the edge of the terrain, I can put any lots of the gallery. No terrain tools is a net gain as far as I'm concern. And if that means they can do something else instead, it's even better. I also don't care about deviant play, supernatural, CaST, open world, collecting, exploring and most NPCs. Some other people do.
I'm buying this EP because I like what I see. I find it solid, and I think I will have fun playing with it. For me, it's worth the price tag, it's as simple as that. I'm also writing a more detailed feedback on this forum to tell Maxis more precisely what I'm liking from this EP and what I'm not liking. Buildable apartments isn't the be all and end all of my Sims expectations. It would have been fun, I would have liked it, but there's a lot of other things I like too.
I'm very much conscious that buying means approving, and that's exactly why I'm buying. I want quality, themes I care about, integration with the rest of the game and things that I find fun, and I will buy packs that match this.
Downsizing from your perspective. From mine, it's not, it's getting bigger. I see nothing wrong with the game going into a direction that appear bigger for me and smaller for others though. And I'm paying the same amount for more in fact : Apartments/Lots traits/Traits/Festivals/Careers > Apartments/Building Apartments/Careers for me.
If you're thinking that there's any reason for them not to do this, please give me at least one.
That's just my opinion though ..
An EP isn't "a" feature, it's a combination of features. Even if some of these are smaller/absent, it doesn't mean the whole EP is smaller, there are new/expanded features too. And smaller/bigger depends on your expectations anyway, I don't care if some features go from forgettable to absent, that won't impact my overall enjoyment of the pack. And if it "gets worse" because of the removal of some other features that are forgettable for me, I don't care. As long as the EP is fun, the theme is something I enjoy and the quality is there, I'll buy it.
They are most likely carefuly choosing their features to satisfy as many people as possible while staying in the budget. If a particular feature bring more sales than it costs to make it, and it can fit into the schedule/with the ressources available/other constraints they may have, they will most likely do it, because there isn't any reason for them not to either.
I think you just need to accept that a lot of people are looking forward to this expansion pack and no amount of pleading on your part is going to change that. You really just need to get over it. I am sorry you're disappointed and underwhelmed, but that is really none of my business and I don't particularly care.
People are not excited for the sake of it - people are excited because they like what they see.
(Not everyone who bought it though, just some).
In the previous games, the first 3 EPs have always been adult-heavy, with only the 4th EP starting to be more 'family-oriented'. (TS1 Vacation, TS2 Pets and TS3 Generations)
And yet, you keep calling people out with complaints about the pack and telling them to "get over it" and move on. Hmm.... seems you do care quite a bit, otherwise why not just let it go, yourself?
Yes, this is true for myself to an extent- I don't find the pack fatally flawed due to the "apartment" situation, just woefully underdone on that situation but in the end I just take the pack as not having apartments, since essentially it doesn't. And this iteration never will have them. It just has the current neighborhood set up redesigned for this pack. A pack slanted heavily toward RPG as opposed to designing your own game. It'll be easier for people who don't like to build/ make their own stories/ create a world/ design events for their sims ect. to "play" this game just like any other RPG. Chose a character and then play though the stories that the developers have set up AND locked into place for you to play. The base game is limited and problematic to use it would seem from everything to date- essentially a mid-range game engine in my opinion designed to kill time and collect stuff and wait for the next monthly release of tweaked content. It's Farmville XL.
So, you know, I'll buy it- on sale- for a price I deem the content is worth and it'll be essentially a "Store World" with the Selling Table/Food Booths as the "premium object". So, (shrug) it's what it is.
Agreed.
Because it's annoying and hard to ignore when people are flooding the forum with different variations of the same thing.
It's really not that hard to ignore. I have my problems with this pack and have had a lot of complaints about it BUT I was really excited for GT and a big booster of that one- lots of other people weren't and it didn't bother me in the least. If they wanted to complain it was fine and I just ignored it and went on posting about the good things I saw coming and what I planned to do. My excitement for what was coming more than overshadowed their disappointment in my eyes. Anyway, not to say you can't post what you want, because you can but I think others should do so as well.
So this is a pattern EA must adhere to but the 20 expansions that all included a life state before Get Together was "just a coincidence?" C'mon....
People are uncomfortable with the idea of a beloved franchise getting worse or dropping in quality. Thus, even in the face of that, many people deny it. Many hold out hope "the future will be better, just you wait," or refuse to acknowledge lost features as a bad thing, even praising a lack of a certain feature (example, "I'm glad toddlers were gone, I hated them,"), failing to acknowledge that even if you didn't enjoy such a feature personally, the lack of that feature is alarming because clearly it has little to do with appealing to the masses and more to do with cutting corners.
Also? People on this forum really need to check this out. I'm about to start linking it in every thread I visit. Reading the above conversation is painful, because even if you care to argue that City Living has "more features" than a S3 expansion for example (VERY debateable, but let's ignore that for a second) and that whichever has more features is "just ur opinion maaaaan," it fails to acknowledge the objective truth that there are indeed specific features missing that have been present in EVERY former Sims game and should not be too difficult to include, yet they don't. Again that should be alarming, and again, saying "just ur opinion maaaaaan" is more or less a way to bow out of a conversation and avoid having to discuss something further when you yourself have no defense against your opposition's claims.
On what objective grounds do you know this? Do you know the point at which the EP's concept becomes financially unsustainable? Do you know which other feature would be given up, resulting in reduced, not increased sales? Do you know how the new pack concepts are performing financially compared to the old ones? Do you know the cost-benefit analysis for the City Living EP?
Personally, I don't want features to be included if they end up being just a lip-service version of that feature. I want great, fully developed features that meet their potential. If that means a change in add-on structure, bring it on. And that is my opinion. You don't have to share it, but it's just as valid and objective as yours.
Yes, and acknowledging that does nothing to actually defend your own opinion or counter someone's claims that contradict your own. I'm sorry, but your opinion should be justified. If you cannot justify it in a coherent way, it may be a bad opinion. If I were to say "the sky is usually blue" and you were to say "the sky is usually pink" and then I follow up my opinion with facts and data and tangible evidence that in the majority of the world, the sky is typically blue, and then your response is "just ur opinion maaaaaaaan," gee, I wonder if your opinion is just plain bad and indefensible.
The exact same applies here and to these forums. Take the above discussion. One user states the loss of terrain tools is alarming, another says "that's good in my opinion and that's my opinion so ur not allowed to tell me we need them." Objectively speaking, whether you like them or not, their absence should be alarming. It is a net loss in features that was never explained or justified. I mean I'm not big on family play so I personally don't care too much about toddlers, but does their absence alarm me? Heck yeah it does, because if the team managing the Sims 4 saw fit to prioritize a rocket ship or cupcake factory over including toddlers, then the sims team has really weird priorities. Even if you were a huge fan of space travel or of cupcakes and you love that trade off, it IS a FACT that the majority of players would consider that trade very awkward, weird and ill-informed from the development team. The constant threads asking for toddlers is a testament to that, as is the logical conclusion that if feature X is in the past two iterations of the game, people will probably have grown accustomed to feature X and expect it in Sims 4. IF EA had avoided toddlers and then the result was a bunch of people praising EA and thanking them for listening to their requests, then things would be different. Then, even if you lament the loss and consider it features lost, you'd have evidence right in front of you that it was by popular request that they were removed, thus it can't really be used as an example of "missing features with no explanation." Toddlers are missing, that is a net loss and they told us why: because it was either cut toddlers or cut other features. Ok, fair enough, but I am firmly of the belief (as are the majority of customers, apparently) that if you cannot make the time for a basic life stage of human life when making a LIFE SIMULATOR, then your project could clearly be managed better.
That's not rocket science to comprehend that stance I just wrote, and guess what? The opposition will come in and justify their opinion that it's good toddlers are gone with "jus ur opinion maaaaaaaaan." See that? That's why some opinions are strictly bad opinions. A debate and a discussion are ways to test your stance on a matter by letting it face other opposing views. It's a chance to challenge your views and see if they're warranted. Here on these forums though, time and time again, people insist that if it's their opinion that it snows more in July than it does in February and that all others need to treat that opinion with respect and never ever ever question it.
I wouldn't mind if they broke the 'tradition' and added a family EP earlier but I didn't expect them to, especially in this iteration...
I don't believe there are good or bad opinions. We can just explain our views on why we like and don't like a certain feature or why it is or is not important to our gameplay. The inclusion of toddlers and open world did not make TS3 a better game for me, because for me the experience of actual gameplay was a laggy mess with not enough emphasis/poor implementation of the features which I had liked in TS2 (apartments, celebrity system, rotational play). For me TS2 was a better game. For many others the experience was different, I know it because I come to the forums and people say they like TS3, and I respect their opinion and agree with at least some points they make.
It doesn't make my experience with TS3 invalid, it doesn't invalidate the reasons many people think TS3 is their favorite game - we just have different opinions and I like to come to the forum to share mine, and read what others think.
@luthienrising And how do apartments rank in your criteria listed above with this pack? Or festivals for that matter? Or player dictated environment and style? This pack does nothing but pay lip service in all of it's key features to date. We have still not learned much about Lot Traits but that's the last thing to truly have an opportunity to perform and shine and set itself apart as THE key feature of this expansion. And, this pack fits in exactly with how they were described recently by Rachel- broad but not deep. They tried to touch on everything (paying lip service imo) without fully developing any of it which is the "not deep" part she talked about. If what you have just written is true- then you should in fact be the biggest critic of this pack, not it's greatest supporter. None of it is fully developed- it's broad but not deep.
People have been asking for home retail since they excluded it in GTW and now instead of patching something in for those of us who have already spent 40 dollars on a retail pack, they will include a way to sell things on your home lot in this pack, asking for another 40 bucks. It's really effed up.
But that's an opinion that can be explained. A major trade that Sims 2 and Sims 3 did is that Sims 2 provided superior customization of your town, whereas Sims 3 traded that away for rabbit holes, but in exchange it got story progression and one giant interconnected town instead of lots and loading screens. It's understandable some would like Sims 2 better because if you enjoy customizing your town without having to access a create-a-world tool or the like, Sims 2 is superior.
Sims 2 vs. Sims 3 was quid pro quo. For every feature Sims 3 lost, it gained a new one entirely. Which you prefer just depends on which features you enjoy.
Sims 4? We don't have firefighters for crying out loud. We don't have burglars or police. The game is often a hollow shell of basic features that all past games had. Even Sims 1!! And that game is usually horrendously outdated.
And look, I'm not arguing "Sims 4 is a terrible game because a good game needs firefighters and police," I'm just saying those are representative of a constant issue: missing features that seem incredibly odd when absent. I mean I cannot stress the firefighters example enough because if you have a single sim and they catch on fire with no shower in sight, it's game over. Regardless of if you consider that example a big deal or no, the philosophy behind that example extends to toddlers, and to terrain tools, and to police, and to cars, and to carpools, etc etc etc.
You simply cannot deny that Sims 4 is a net loss compared to past titles. People have argued in the past that this is only because Sims 4 doesn't have the expansions the others had yet. Compare the games at launch and compare the base games only: it's a net loss, with Sims 4 failing to offer any revolutionary new features to reduce it to preference.
Fast forward...? We are on expansion pack 3 and EVERY single expansion has failed to be as well received as their Sims 2 and Sims 3 counterparts. GTW has as many careers as Showtime (the worst Sims 3 expanion), Get Together's club system is a cool idea but it does not stand on it's own two feet very well (it needs the game to have content before it can really shine), and City Living seems to pale in comparison to Apartment Life and Late Night. Honestly, Late Night was very light on features and shouldn't be difficult to beat, yet Sims 4 struggles once again....
Time and time again, features turn up missing. That's hardly an opinion at all. Even if you were to argue that by some amazing coincidence, EVERY missing feature thusfar is something you hated or didn't care about, the pattern of features missing SHOULD be alarming. You never know when a feature you enjoyed could be the next addition to the missing features list.