I think both SimCity2013 and the Sims 4 has been a very humbling experience for Maxis. I mean think about it, they have never had games with this much backlash before. I think the Sims 4 is limited and the financial losses SimCity caused are having an effect on the Sims. I have a feeling Maxis is trying to stick to little risk because the Sims 3 was a very ambitious project that they couldn't keep up with. So why they have gone back to the roots, to start over and recoup their losses. I do think the Sims 4 is the rebound game to not only the Sims 3, but SimCity as well. No one really knows the future, but I really hope they start putting depth in the game again.
It was pretty funny I was looking this up on what the Sims 4 is lacking, the butterfly effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect But in the same way, it is exactly what is happening to Maxis. There is only so much bad press they can ignore before it starts catching up on them. Only Maxis can solve the problem with their reputation and it isn't something that EA can do for them. They need to make the change and accept that mistakes happen and not just continue to blame their loyal customers for their mistake. How they handle those mistakes is what makes the difference and if customers will continue to purchase from them or not. No one can predict the future, so only time will tell how things turn out for Maxis. I do think if there ever were a time for competition to come in for the life simulation genre, now would be the time to do it. The barriers are down and customers are disappointed. But will a company take the risk? We will see. I do think competition could be very healthy for Maxis again. It has been with City Skylines. Now players have more options with gaming with a new city building game. Competition pushes businesses to try harder. It is amazing what results develop from it.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Okay, this is a point I've never got my head around. When I'm in live play and my Sims are watching a movie or eating an ice cream they made themselves, or making a wish at the well, or filling the fountain with soap, or splashing their lover playfully, or doing slide tricks with their friends at the park, or trading voidcritter cards, or putting on a puppet show for their parents, why is this not gameplay?
As someone who doesn't consider most of these things gameplay, I can attempt to answer this, but I can only speak for myself personally.
I love the premium stuff pack items and they bring a lot to my sims' homes, but at the end of the day they are still "stuff" to me. Most of them are: "Your sim does an animation ---> gets a moodlet". That's fun and fine, but it's only a (most likely happy) moodlet that will wear off after a few sim hours. What are the actual effects it will have on my game?
I'll give an example of what I consider good gameplay from Sims 3-- the alchemy skill. Say I have an evil warlock who wants to turn the town into zombies. I would first have to level up enough in the alchemy skill to be able to make zombie potions, but it wouldn't stop there. I would have to then search the town for the ingredients needed to make the potions. It would be a long-haul task that would ultimately be very rewarding for me because it would take a while to complete and have a fun payoff.
Compare to things like the bird feeder... It's adorable but I'm watching my sim watch something. Then they get a moodlet. It doesn't have any kind of effect on anything in the long run.
A Sims 4 stuff pack example of what I do think is a great gameplay object would be the wishing well. There are so many possibles of what could happen-- sims can lose their job, get a child (who could turn out to be evil!), have a new lover, or even die. Those things all have a lasting effect on my game.
I'm not trying to downplay the enjoyment the stuff pack items bring, I really do appreciate how much work goes into them and they are wonderful. But to me they don't really feel like "gameplay".
(Ok done derailing the thread now... *ahem*)
Part of the problem I think as well with the game play objects, which I happen to like as well and think are a good addition to the game is that they often are only superficially different from what we have- take the Void Critters. I LOVE those and they're cute and it's great to have kids sims do BUT at the end of the day it's still just collecting but instead of frogs/fish/rocks it's cards. You even use the same shelves for, so while it's cute and welcome it's not that big a deal in the end- at least not big enough to say YAY we got new game play. I do think the puppet show and the slide are somewhat better but is making lemonade that much different then making popcorn/ice cream/coffee/tea? Not really. I like it- I in fact LOVED the ice tea pitcher because I could finally serve drink and to kids at that(!). I think the SP team does a great job because they are after all just Stuff Packs but the game play items are not EP level game play change- even several of them strung together.
And speaking of EP's the big problem with GT was that while the club system is a great addition it's novelty wears off quick because while you can organize sims into groups for action they are still just performing the same actions they had already been doing with the exception of dancing/DJing which is what makes the pack seem light to some. At first a lot of people, myself included, used the excuse that in the future the clubbing system would be very important and it shall but the future is now and so far there hasn't been anything really new to use it with. A lot of hopes that the Summer EP and then Winter EP would help expand this usage are rapidly fading and the lack of news- no matter the reason because the reason don't change anything- isn't helping.
Part of the problem I think as well with the game play objects, which I happen to like as well and think are a good addition to the game is that they often are only superficially different from what we have- take the Void Critters. I LOVE those and they're cute and it's great to have kids sims do BUT at the end of the day it's still just collecting but instead of frogs/fish/rocks it's cards. You even use the same shelves for, so while it's cute and welcome it's not that big a deal in the end- at least not big enough to say YAY we got new game play. I do think the puppet show and the slide are somewhat better but is making lemonade that much different then making popcorn/ice cream/coffee/tea? Not really. I like it- I in fact LOVED the ice tea pitcher because I could finally serve drink and to kids at that(!). I think the SP team does a great job because they are after all just Stuff Packs but the game play items are not EP level game play change- even several of them strung together.
And speaking of EP's the big problem with GT was that while the club system is a great addition it's novelty wears off quick because while you can organize sims into groups for action they are still just performing the same actions they had already been doing with the exception of dancing/DJing which is what makes the pack seem light to some. At first a lot of people, myself included, used the excuse that in the future the clubbing system would be very important and it shall but the future is now and so far there hasn't been anything really new to use it with. A lot of hopes that the Summer EP and then Winter EP would help expand this usage are rapidly fading and the lack of news- no matter the reason because the reason don't change anything- isn't helping.
Great post. Yeah I do think GPs and EPs should bring more depth with quality of gameplay. I feel like Maxis is being safe pretty much releasing the same themes over and over again whether it is eating, partying, doing quests, clutter, suburbia CAS parts, or collecting. There needs to be something different to make the Sims 4 feel less like a RPG game and more like a life simulator game.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
The sims this time around seems like more money for much less than before. Everyone complained about how much sims 3 was different than sims 2, and sims 4 was their passive aggressive answer to "Look we "listened" to you". Miss getting three worlds for the price of one? Now we'll give you three worlds again, and bring back the limited world!! It feels like with everything they "fixed" for us, they also added a problem. Idk, it's just my two cents.
Okay, this is a point I've never got my head around. When I'm in live play and my Sims are watching a movie or eating an ice cream they made themselves, or making a wish at the well, or filling the fountain with soap, or splashing their lover playfully, or doing slide tricks with their friends at the park, or trading voidcritter cards, or putting on a puppet show for their parents, why is this not gameplay?
As someone who doesn't consider most of these things gameplay, I can attempt to answer this, but I can only speak for myself personally.
I love the premium stuff pack items and they bring a lot to my sims' homes, but at the end of the day they are still "stuff" to me. Most of them are: "Your sim does an animation ---> gets a moodlet". That's fun and fine, but it's only a (most likely happy) moodlet that will wear off after a few sim hours. What are the actual effects it will have on my game?
I'll give an example of what I consider good gameplay from Sims 3-- the alchemy skill. Say I have an evil warlock who wants to turn the town into zombies. I would first have to level up enough in the alchemy skill to be able to make zombie potions, but it wouldn't stop there. I would have to then search the town for the ingredients needed to make the potions. It would be a long-haul task that would ultimately be very rewarding for me because it would take a while to complete and have a fun payoff.
Compare to things like the bird feeder... It's adorable but I'm watching my sim watch something. Then they get a moodlet. It doesn't have any kind of effect on anything in the long run.
A Sims 4 stuff pack example of what I do think is a great gameplay object would be the wishing well. There are so many possibles of what could happen-- sims can lose their job, get a child (who could turn out to be evil!), have a new lover, or even die. Those things all have a lasting effect on my game.
I'm not trying to downplay the enjoyment the stuff pack items bring, I really do appreciate how much work goes into them and they are wonderful. But to me they don't really feel like "gameplay".
(Ok done derailing the thread now... *ahem*)
Thank you for an answer that actually makes some sense. I guess that for me, all that everyday activity is just as key a part of playing the game as the long-term stuff is. A lot of why I've been enjoying Sims 4 more than Sims 3 has been that that everyday activity has been entertaining to watch happen as I set it in motion, so I've been playing on speed 1 (I played Sims 3 pretty much exclusively on speed 2). That can mean that in a me-day of playing, which is usually a couple of hours' worth, I get through just a few Sim days. The long-term stuff is very long-term in the way I play the game; the everyday stuff is there with me all the time.
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Part of the problem I think as well with the game play objects, which I happen to like as well and think are a good addition to the game is that they often are only superficially different from what we have- take the Void Critters. I LOVE those and they're cute and it's great to have kids sims do BUT at the end of the day it's still just collecting but instead of frogs/fish/rocks it's cards. You even use the same shelves for, so while it's cute and welcome it's not that big a deal in the end- at least not big enough to say YAY we got new game play. I do think the puppet show and the slide are somewhat better but is making lemonade that much different then making popcorn/ice cream/coffee/tea? Not really. I like it- I in fact LOVED the ice tea pitcher because I could finally serve drink and to kids at that(!). I think the SP team does a great job because they are after all just Stuff Packs but the game play items are not EP level game play change- even several of them strung together.
And speaking of EP's the big problem with GT was that while the club system is a great addition it's novelty wears off quick because while you can organize sims into groups for action they are still just performing the same actions they had already been doing with the exception of dancing/DJing which is what makes the pack seem light to some. At first a lot of people, myself included, used the excuse that in the future the clubbing system would be very important and it shall but the future is now and so far there hasn't been anything really new to use it with. A lot of hopes that the Summer EP and then Winter EP would help expand this usage are rapidly fading and the lack of news- no matter the reason because the reason don't change anything- isn't helping.
Great post. Yeah I do think GPs and EPs should bring more depth with quality of gameplay. I feel like Maxis is being safe pretty much releasing the same themes over and over again whether it is eating, partying, doing quests, clutter, suburbia CAS parts, or collecting. There needs to be something different to make the Sims 4 feel less like a RPG game and more like a life simulator game.
Interesting points.
It does seem that they are 'playing safe' but trying to thrown in some old favourites, the tragic clown and the nanny for instance but seem to be shy of trying out something richer and something new.
How many times do they expect someone to pay for Pets, Seasons or a University education?
The Sims 3 seems like they had more live streams for new stuff from the Simgurus. This game nothing. I hope they will just come out and say we are working on what you want. Weather its fixing the Sims 4 or The Sims 5. And more live streams from the Gurus. Something.
The Sims 3 seems like they had more live streams for new stuff from the Simgurus. This game nothing. I hope they will just come out and say we are working on what you want. Weather its fixing the Sims 4 or The Sims 5. And more live streams from the Gurus. Something.
Yea this whole secrecy thing is killing me. Especially when they were so open before. It's like whats so different now? Why can't you share with us like you did before? I get trying something new but if you see its not working why not go back to something that was working? Not saying that change is bad but in this sense it is. I cannot be excited about something I'm oblivious to. So I don't see the point.
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
Maybe they have not said anything because they are trying to milk the few players that still buy everything and the new players to the Sims series. Then they come here to complain. They need to come out with a live stream and say we are sorry. We are fixing this base game by rebuilding it. Or we are working on a great base for The Sims 5. Or maybe they really are waiting on the new consoles to come out. But if people want this game on a console. Just add the game through Steam as Non-Steam game. Then with the Steam controller you can program it to control the game however you like. Then connected computer to tv with wireless keyboard and mouse.
On subject of Steam, EA needs to look at what they are doing. I do like their new controller. Love how you can gift games to friends and trade. Also games as Early Access. Edit- Also on Steam you can go to each games forums.
At this point I wish Paradox Interactive, that made City Skylines would make a Sims game. There was a rumor awhile ago they might. But they have said they have not and are not working on one. But we really need competition in the Sims game type....
So EA really needs to step up before its too late, it might be already. If they are not developing The Sims 5 right now, someone else might be already.
The Sims 3 seems like they had more live streams for new stuff from the Simgurus. This game nothing. I hope they will just come out and say we are working on what you want. Weather its fixing the Sims 4 or The Sims 5. And more live streams from the Gurus. Something.
They started having livestreams even for Stuff Packs this spring. I think the fewer-livestreams days are over.
100% agree on EA needing to pick up the Origin game. I'm still totally boggled that I can't use Origin to gift - I have to give money to a third party instead.
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The Sims 3 seems like they had more live streams for new stuff from the Simgurus. This game nothing. I hope they will just come out and say we are working on what you want. Weather its fixing the Sims 4 or The Sims 5. And more live streams from the Gurus. Something.
They started having livestreams even for Stuff Packs this spring. I think the fewer-livestreams days are over.
The Sims 3 seems like they had more live streams for new stuff from the Simgurus. This game nothing. I hope they will just come out and say we are working on what you want. Weather its fixing the Sims 4 or The Sims 5. And more live streams from the Gurus. Something.
They started having livestreams even for Stuff Packs this spring. I think the fewer-livestreams days are over.
Missed them.
The channel is here:
I don't know if those get posted anywhere else post-Twitch or how long they stay up there? They do get announced here and on social media. Not sure if an email goes out as well for people who receive those.
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From my point of view, SIMS 4 is excellent as far as building and CAS (double-chins are missing though!) and animations are concerned. The other part of the game, the "life-simulation" so to speak, is a big miss though. The developers came up with gameplay-mechanisms that simply don't make a good game.
One of the reasons is that there are hardly any interesting game-mechanisms that interlock with each other to create interesting situations and decisions and make the player think and anticipate. It has already been sounded in this thread and elsewhere. If a pop-corn machine is considered to be an addition to "game-play" then something is obviously wrong. Come on! It's but a new animation we can watch when we activate an object!
In the game, there are two main ressources: money and time. Money has been literally abolished by the game designers. It feels like no sim has ever been in real urgent need of money. Money is not a major consideration for players. You progressively get more the higher you rise in job. Also, having more or less money does not really change your sim's situation and the circumstances of gameplay. So here's a wasted opportunity.
Time, on the other hand, can be kind of interesting IF you leave aging to normal or fast. However! This ressource runs totally against one of the major appeals of the game: immersion and identification with your sims. Time/death does not really alter your gameplay-situation - rather, it ends your game. Unless of course you relate exclusively with multi-generation families, not with individual sims. It's rather "How much can I achieve before the game is over?" than "How does this affect my ongoing game?". And even on a more general basis, I don't think that time is a good choice as a ressource in a game like SIMS, as it will always keep you from immersing yourself into that everyday atmosphere, immerse yourself into moments and locations - which should really be one of the SIMS' main assets imho.
So, apart from the ressource "money" which is not used at all, and "time" which can be a factor but works against the potential strength of the game-idea, what we have are moods. I like the idea behind moods. And the execution is interesting as well. However, I think it's a bit too easy to manage moods and their effects are negligible. It's like: If you want a tiny bonus on skill or job progression, get into this or that mood. If you want to progress at normal rate, simply ignore. Thus, the effects of moods are so trifling that you can completely ignore them. And as I've pointed out, it's way too easy to manage moods. Thoughtfull shower before work. Check. If at all, it's a matter of timing, not getting access to the desired mood. Also, the automatism does not quite fit to moods and makes the mechanism too predictable. I think moods would have been much more interesting, if: 1. they had larger effects and 2. if they were based on probabilities rather than automatisms. Say: an action gives you a certain chance to get into a certain mood. With more actions/deco, your chances to get into that mood increase.
Finally, apart from money, time and moods, we've got the core of the SIMS-series: bodily needs. There is not a lot to talk about here. It can't get any more basic from a gameplay-perspective than that. Your sim needs to pee --> send him to toilet. Your sim needs sleep --> send him to bed. Honestly, tamagochis in the 90s had more depth than that. That's also why the game might feel childish to many people.
So, we end up with bodily needs (not interesting), moods that don't matter, money that doesn't matter, and time, which you can see as some form of challenge if you want to. That does not make an interesting game. There is no difficulty in the game at all, no challenging situations and thus also no fulfillment. The part with the greatest potential - social interactions and character development or at least depth - is an empty desert. Maybe that's because SIMS 4 had been initially designed as an online-game? The lack of character and depth in social interactions is really so gaping. The characters of sims consist of three traits that give them irrelevant moods (sometimes on a random basis). Social characters don't even exist (no like/dislike system). Story progression and world-consistency is almost inexistant. There is no concept of social hierarchy or power. Your sim does not depend on other sims. There is no mechanism that lets us triumph over other sims, or hardly any incentive to make us emphatize with our sims and suffer with them. There is no tactics in the social game and no feeling of depth or fulfilment. All sims are interchangeable.
And this lack of character also carries over to the surface of the game, which is a mechanically and emptily smiling "Hey! It's great! It's fun! Bring your friends" youtuber-marketing-front. It's just so empty.
I really wished the devs would take a look at other games that come up with proper mechanics. Mechanics that generate narratives.
PS: I forgot about reward-points. By completing milestones for your aspiration or fulfulling whims, you get these rewardpoints that you can use to buy reward-traits. Again, this is more of a direct reward-system for doing certain things. It is not a game-mechanism that makes you ponder alternatives. Do this, get reward. It's the same problem as with moodlets and job-performance. Get into mood x before work. Okay, why wouldn't I? There is but a slight positive feedback and no negative feedback at all in these desicions.
The Sims just needs competition. REAL competition that is on the same or higher level as The Sims. It would have three outcomes:
Maxis makes The Sims better and the competition is unsuccessful and fails
The new game is better than The Sims so most people buy that and The Sims series stops
Both games are plum so everyone just plays their own games and there are no life-simulation games anymore
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
Second Life?
*cowers*
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
Personally I want Paradox and Rockstar to release a competitor.
Paradox could attract the current teen/casual/tech novice audience while Rockstar could gear itself towards mature/technologically inclined audiences.
The Sims just needs competition. REAL competition that is on the same or higher level as The Sims. It would have three outcomes:
Maxis makes The Sims better and the competition is unsuccessful and fails
The new game is better than The Sims so most people buy that and The Sims series stops
Both games are plum so everyone just plays their own games and there are no life-simulation games anymore
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
I would agree in the past but after a bad experience with TS4 people would be far more likely to try something else. It would be a perfect time for a company to take on competition.
The Sims just needs competition. REAL competition that is on the same or higher level as The Sims. It would have three outcomes:
Maxis makes The Sims better and the competition is unsuccessful and fails
The new game is better than The Sims so most people buy that and The Sims series stops
Both games are plum so everyone just plays their own games and there are no life-simulation games anymore
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
I would agree in the past but after a bad experience with TS4 people would be far more likely to try something else. It would be a perfect time for a company to take on competition.
Agreed. I don't think there has ever been a better time for a competitor to throw their hat into the ring!
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
The Sims just needs competition. REAL competition that is on the same or higher level as The Sims. It would have three outcomes:
Maxis makes The Sims better and the competition is unsuccessful and fails
The new game is better than The Sims so most people buy that and The Sims series stops
Both games are plum so everyone just plays their own games and there are no life-simulation games anymore
I've always wondered why there hasn't yet been a competitor? For Simcity the competitor was City Skylines and other city building games (like Anno) but for The Sims themselves there isn't one and we desperately need one to either kick Maxis in to gear or to finally be able to leave them for good and support someone else. Are companies afraid to take on this genre?
The Sims just needs competition. REAL competition that is on the same or higher level as The Sims. It would have three outcomes:
Maxis makes The Sims better and the competition is unsuccessful and fails
The new game is better than The Sims so most people buy that and The Sims series stops
Both games are plum so everyone just plays their own games and there are no life-simulation games anymore
I've always wondered why there hasn't yet been a competitor? For Simcity the competitor was City Skylines and other city building games (like Anno) but for The Sims themselves there isn't one and we desperately need one to either kick Maxis in to gear or to finally be able to leave them for good and support someone else. Are companies afraid to take on this genre?
I do not think they are afraid, it is how to approach the concept without crossing into EA/Maxis turf. It can be done but it would not be that easy as it looks.
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The Sims just needs competition. REAL competition that is on the same or higher level as The Sims. It would have three outcomes:
Maxis makes The Sims better and the competition is unsuccessful and fails
The new game is better than The Sims so most people buy that and The Sims series stops
Both games are plum so everyone just plays their own games and there are no life-simulation games anymore
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
I would agree in the past but after a bad experience with TS4 people would be far more likely to try something else. It would be a perfect time for a company to take on competition.
Agreed. I don't think there has ever been a better time for a competitor to throw their hat into the ring!
I also agree.
I think that, being the only game in town so to speak, the Sims franchise has gotten a bit complacent and taken its consumers for granted--kind of like a 1950s husband would with his wife. Well, this hausfrau is ready to cut and dye her hair, put on her little black dress and run off to Vegas with the pool boy!
@Darkling, I think the franchise has gotten a little smug as well as complacent. All this "can't tell you anything" and little twitter tweets and teasers with clues and hidden meanings that aren't really clues or hidden meanings. I feel like I'm being treated like a child. Patted on the head. There, there, it will get better. Right.
@Darkling, I think the franchise has gotten a little smug as well as complacent. All this "can't tell you anything" and little twitter tweets and teasers with clues and hidden meanings that aren't really clues or hidden meanings. I feel like I'm being treated like a child. Patted on the head. There, there, it will get better. Right.
LOL Or even worse, treated like a child who is getting underfoot while the "grown ups" are busy, being scooted out of the way and given something shiny to distract us. Meanwhile, all we wanted to do was let them know that the house was on fire all around them.
@Darkling, I think the franchise has gotten a little smug as well as complacent. All this "can't tell you anything" and little twitter tweets and teasers with clues and hidden meanings that aren't really clues or hidden meanings. I feel like I'm being treated like a child. Patted on the head. There, there, it will get better. Right.
This is so true...
"Bada su the gorn bada su the brawn bada bady oda aba donk donk donk gerbits gerbits vo gerbits".
Comments
It was pretty funny I was looking this up on what the Sims 4 is lacking, the butterfly effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect But in the same way, it is exactly what is happening to Maxis. There is only so much bad press they can ignore before it starts catching up on them. Only Maxis can solve the problem with their reputation and it isn't something that EA can do for them. They need to make the change and accept that mistakes happen and not just continue to blame their loyal customers for their mistake. How they handle those mistakes is what makes the difference and if customers will continue to purchase from them or not. No one can predict the future, so only time will tell how things turn out for Maxis. I do think if there ever were a time for competition to come in for the life simulation genre, now would be the time to do it. The barriers are down and customers are disappointed. But will a company take the risk? We will see. I do think competition could be very healthy for Maxis again. It has been with City Skylines. Now players have more options with gaming with a new city building game. Competition pushes businesses to try harder. It is amazing what results develop from it.
Part of the problem I think as well with the game play objects, which I happen to like as well and think are a good addition to the game is that they often are only superficially different from what we have- take the Void Critters. I LOVE those and they're cute and it's great to have kids sims do BUT at the end of the day it's still just collecting but instead of frogs/fish/rocks it's cards. You even use the same shelves for, so while it's cute and welcome it's not that big a deal in the end- at least not big enough to say YAY we got new game play. I do think the puppet show and the slide are somewhat better but is making lemonade that much different then making popcorn/ice cream/coffee/tea? Not really. I like it- I in fact LOVED the ice tea pitcher because I could finally serve drink and to kids at that(!). I think the SP team does a great job because they are after all just Stuff Packs but the game play items are not EP level game play change- even several of them strung together.
And speaking of EP's the big problem with GT was that while the club system is a great addition it's novelty wears off quick because while you can organize sims into groups for action they are still just performing the same actions they had already been doing with the exception of dancing/DJing which is what makes the pack seem light to some. At first a lot of people, myself included, used the excuse that in the future the clubbing system would be very important and it shall but the future is now and so far there hasn't been anything really new to use it with. A lot of hopes that the Summer EP and then Winter EP would help expand this usage are rapidly fading and the lack of news- no matter the reason because the reason don't change anything- isn't helping.
Thank you for an answer that actually makes some sense. I guess that for me, all that everyday activity is just as key a part of playing the game as the long-term stuff is. A lot of why I've been enjoying Sims 4 more than Sims 3 has been that that everyday activity has been entertaining to watch happen as I set it in motion, so I've been playing on speed 1 (I played Sims 3 pretty much exclusively on speed 2). That can mean that in a me-day of playing, which is usually a couple of hours' worth, I get through just a few Sim days. The long-term stuff is very long-term in the way I play the game; the everyday stuff is there with me all the time.
Interesting points.
It does seem that they are 'playing safe' but trying to thrown in some old favourites, the tragic clown and the nanny for instance but seem to be shy of trying out something richer and something new.
How many times do they expect someone to pay for Pets, Seasons or a University education?
Yea this whole secrecy thing is killing me. Especially when they were so open before. It's like whats so different now? Why can't you share with us like you did before? I get trying something new but if you see its not working why not go back to something that was working? Not saying that change is bad but in this sense it is. I cannot be excited about something I'm oblivious to. So I don't see the point.
On subject of Steam, EA needs to look at what they are doing. I do like their new controller. Love how you can gift games to friends and trade. Also games as Early Access. Edit- Also on Steam you can go to each games forums.
At this point I wish Paradox Interactive, that made City Skylines would make a Sims game. There was a rumor awhile ago they might. But they have said they have not and are not working on one. But we really need competition in the Sims game type....
So EA really needs to step up before its too late, it might be already. If they are not developing The Sims 5 right now, someone else might be already.
But yay its after 1:00..No Man's Sky!!
They started having livestreams even for Stuff Packs this spring. I think the fewer-livestreams days are over.
100% agree on EA needing to pick up the Origin game. I'm still totally boggled that I can't use Origin to gift - I have to give money to a third party instead.
Missed them.
The channel is here: I don't know if those get posted anywhere else post-Twitch or how long they stay up there? They do get announced here and on social media. Not sure if an email goes out as well for people who receive those.
One of the reasons is that there are hardly any interesting game-mechanisms that interlock with each other to create interesting situations and decisions and make the player think and anticipate. It has already been sounded in this thread and elsewhere. If a pop-corn machine is considered to be an addition to "game-play" then something is obviously wrong. Come on! It's but a new animation we can watch when we activate an object!
In the game, there are two main ressources: money and time. Money has been literally abolished by the game designers. It feels like no sim has ever been in real urgent need of money. Money is not a major consideration for players. You progressively get more the higher you rise in job. Also, having more or less money does not really change your sim's situation and the circumstances of gameplay. So here's a wasted opportunity.
Time, on the other hand, can be kind of interesting IF you leave aging to normal or fast. However! This ressource runs totally against one of the major appeals of the game: immersion and identification with your sims. Time/death does not really alter your gameplay-situation - rather, it ends your game. Unless of course you relate exclusively with multi-generation families, not with individual sims. It's rather "How much can I achieve before the game is over?" than "How does this affect my ongoing game?". And even on a more general basis, I don't think that time is a good choice as a ressource in a game like SIMS, as it will always keep you from immersing yourself into that everyday atmosphere, immerse yourself into moments and locations - which should really be one of the SIMS' main assets imho.
So, apart from the ressource "money" which is not used at all, and "time" which can be a factor but works against the potential strength of the game-idea, what we have are moods. I like the idea behind moods. And the execution is interesting as well. However, I think it's a bit too easy to manage moods and their effects are negligible. It's like: If you want a tiny bonus on skill or job progression, get into this or that mood. If you want to progress at normal rate, simply ignore. Thus, the effects of moods are so trifling that you can completely ignore them. And as I've pointed out, it's way too easy to manage moods. Thoughtfull shower before work. Check. If at all, it's a matter of timing, not getting access to the desired mood. Also, the automatism does not quite fit to moods and makes the mechanism too predictable. I think moods would have been much more interesting, if: 1. they had larger effects and 2. if they were based on probabilities rather than automatisms. Say: an action gives you a certain chance to get into a certain mood. With more actions/deco, your chances to get into that mood increase.
Finally, apart from money, time and moods, we've got the core of the SIMS-series: bodily needs. There is not a lot to talk about here. It can't get any more basic from a gameplay-perspective than that. Your sim needs to pee --> send him to toilet. Your sim needs sleep --> send him to bed. Honestly, tamagochis in the 90s had more depth than that. That's also why the game might feel childish to many people.
So, we end up with bodily needs (not interesting), moods that don't matter, money that doesn't matter, and time, which you can see as some form of challenge if you want to. That does not make an interesting game. There is no difficulty in the game at all, no challenging situations and thus also no fulfillment. The part with the greatest potential - social interactions and character development or at least depth - is an empty desert. Maybe that's because SIMS 4 had been initially designed as an online-game? The lack of character and depth in social interactions is really so gaping. The characters of sims consist of three traits that give them irrelevant moods (sometimes on a random basis). Social characters don't even exist (no like/dislike system). Story progression and world-consistency is almost inexistant. There is no concept of social hierarchy or power. Your sim does not depend on other sims. There is no mechanism that lets us triumph over other sims, or hardly any incentive to make us emphatize with our sims and suffer with them. There is no tactics in the social game and no feeling of depth or fulfilment. All sims are interchangeable.
And this lack of character also carries over to the surface of the game, which is a mechanically and emptily smiling "Hey! It's great! It's fun! Bring your friends" youtuber-marketing-front. It's just so empty.
I really wished the devs would take a look at other games that come up with proper mechanics. Mechanics that generate narratives.
PS: I forgot about reward-points. By completing milestones for your aspiration or fulfulling whims, you get these rewardpoints that you can use to buy reward-traits. Again, this is more of a direct reward-system for doing certain things. It is not a game-mechanism that makes you ponder alternatives. Do this, get reward. It's the same problem as with moodlets and job-performance. Get into mood x before work. Okay, why wouldn't I? There is but a slight positive feedback and no negative feedback at all in these desicions.
My Origin ID is catKajka.
Yeah, I wish The Sims had competition, but I think most players of the sims are way too casual gamers to notice if a competitor launched. They would just want to buy the most famous game anyway.
Which company would want to tackle the behemoth that is The Sims?
Second Life?
*cowers*
Personally I want Paradox and Rockstar to release a competitor.
Paradox could attract the current teen/casual/tech novice audience while Rockstar could gear itself towards mature/technologically inclined audiences.
I would agree in the past but after a bad experience with TS4 people would be far more likely to try something else. It would be a perfect time for a company to take on competition.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Agreed. I don't think there has ever been a better time for a competitor to throw their hat into the ring!
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
I've always wondered why there hasn't yet been a competitor? For Simcity the competitor was City Skylines and other city building games (like Anno) but for The Sims themselves there isn't one and we desperately need one to either kick Maxis in to gear or to finally be able to leave them for good and support someone else. Are companies afraid to take on this genre?
I also agree.
I think that, being the only game in town so to speak, the Sims franchise has gotten a bit complacent and taken its consumers for granted--kind of like a 1950s husband would with his wife. Well, this hausfrau is ready to cut and dye her hair, put on her little black dress and run off to Vegas with the pool boy!
LOL Or even worse, treated like a child who is getting underfoot while the "grown ups" are busy, being scooted out of the way and given something shiny to distract us. Meanwhile, all we wanted to do was let them know that the house was on fire all around them.
This is so true...