I can't help but wonder how culling will affect the game later on. Surely we'll get more worlds that are populated...So are they just going to keep raising the cap? Just give us smaller worlds with less premade sims? Are pets going to risk being culled? I know some are quick to say "Sims 3 had culling too", which is true, but I never had sims I became friends with one day vanish the very next, or a family tree full of blank avatars
Oh it will. Same with the small world sizes. I don't think the Sims 4 was well thought out with expansion.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
@BlueBlack007, I hope you do. I would love to see your creations. I put Collinwood on the gallery and then updated it with what I had finished for the wing they live in. And all my DS characters so far, except Willie I can't get him the right hair or facial expression in this game. But normally I would have been laughing my assets off when I first added Quentin (had to move out Julie because of 8 Sim limit) and it was David (in middle of night) who ventured up those stairs to the third floor (they never go there before, lol) to try to get to see Quentin. I would have given the life simulator a lot more credit than is due for playing right into my imagination. Because that is exactly what happens in DS eventually. David and that little girl who stayed for awhile at their house (Uncle was werewolf) were the first to find Quentin. So, David getting up in the middle of the night in the game (just like in DS) to go see if he can get into a locked room would have made me laugh with glee. I always enjoyed the Sims when they did things that would play right into the story.
But this game gets overshadowed by everything else that is wrong with it. I want this game improved, not ended, but improved. Fixed, more complex, more fun and no amount of objects can actually make that happen when some players who play vanilla games suffer through this stuff and not real effort to correct these horrible bugs and or horrible programming no one likes. Or they wouldn't be using mods to change it.
ETA: Like the game can't keep it's hands off my Sims friendships and romances, but culls them but it will intrude itself into my Sims lives and give them false friends and romances....how does that make sense to anyone. Cull what I do, but add fake ones...so not smart.
I was hoping to add mine after we get Pet's, cause I want to make My Quentin a werewolf, since that is what he was in the end, and also the hair styles for the females I was hoping would show up sometime soon, cause can't really put regular hair on them, that is another reason I wanted to wait, to get the right type of hair for them, without adding CC, cause I can't use CC, at this point in time, that is why all My CC creations, had to be taken out of the gallery.
The one long hair style parted in middle and long at shoulders is perfect for Victoria Winters' early style if you have seen it yet. I think it came in GT can't remember. Very '60's. It's a thin, sleek hairstyle not too puffy.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@BlueBlack007, I hope you do. I would love to see your creations. I put Collinwood on the gallery and then updated it with what I had finished for the wing they live in. And all my DS characters so far, except Willie I can't get him the right hair or facial expression in this game. But normally I would have been laughing my assets off when I first added Quentin (had to move out Julie because of 8 Sim limit) and it was David (in middle of night) who ventured up those stairs to the third floor (they never go there before, lol) to try to get to see Quentin. I would have given the life simulator a lot more credit than is due for playing right into my imagination. Because that is exactly what happens in DS eventually. David and that little girl who stayed for awhile at their house (Uncle was werewolf) were the first to find Quentin. So, David getting up in the middle of the night in the game (just like in DS) to go see if he can get into a locked room would have made me laugh with glee. I always enjoyed the Sims when they did things that would play right into the story.
But this game gets overshadowed by everything else that is wrong with it. I want this game improved, not ended, but improved. Fixed, more complex, more fun and no amount of objects can actually make that happen when some players who play vanilla games suffer through this stuff and not real effort to correct these horrible bugs and or horrible programming no one likes. Or they wouldn't be using mods to change it.
ETA: Like the game can't keep it's hands off my Sims friendships and romances, but culls them but it will intrude itself into my Sims lives and give them false friends and romances....how does that make sense to anyone. Cull what I do, but add fake ones...so not smart.
I was hoping to add mine after we get Pet's, cause I want to make My Quentin a werewolf, since that is what he was in the end, and also the hair styles for the females I was hoping would show up sometime soon, cause can't really put regular hair on them, that is another reason I wanted to wait, to get the right type of hair for them, without adding CC, cause I can't use CC, at this point in time, that is why all My CC creations, had to be taken out of the gallery.
The one long hair style parted in middle and long at shoulders is perfect for Victoria Winters' early style if you have seen it yet. I think it came in GT can't remember. Very '60's. It's a thin, sleek hairstyle not too puffy.
Awesome thank you kindly, I will try that for her, much appreciated.
I would consider one mod until they stop relationship culling and that would be a one time mod that fixes this for me and doesn't do anything else. I shy away from big script mods that have the ability to change many things.
Welp according to SGDrake here, culling is "working as designed" so guess that's one thing a mod will always be needed for. I can't figure out how forgetting friends or even sims in general is a good idea...if it's for performance reasons I've never had any issues with no relationship culling, at most the panel takes a couple more seconds to load
@Polyrhythm, thank you for the link. No, I hadn't read the new information there, or rather back to the old stance, working as it should. Yes, it probably is working as it should but then I want to know what do we do with Daniel's statements months ago they were looking into it to see what can be changed? I guess we disregard those now? (I am speaking of culling and relationship culling statements) answered by them on Twitter.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I just realized, it probably would be a good idea to tag the new QA guys about these issues. @SimGuruArvin@SimGuruNick Tags @crinrict while I'm at it too.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I just realized, it probably would be a good idea to tag the new QA guys about these issues. @SimGuruArvin@SimGuruNick Tags @crinrict while I'm at it too.
Thanks, maybe they would like my saves. I hope they have a full head of hair, because I have about lost all mine in the last few weeks from pulling it out every time I load it.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
This reminds me in another thread I just posted but it belongs here. Maxis, your game took my Elizabeth Stoddard living in Collinwood and hooked her up with my Sam living with his daughter (YA) in my other house. Why? I didn't make the flirt, they met a few times. Nothing more. But your game hooked them up and turned them into love birds. So,....now I have to keep them apart *(my Sims!) in two different houses, Mine. ETA: While I wasn't playing them your game hooked them up when they live apart in two different houses.
Your game built this false relationship and ruined my story. On top of everything else. But you cull Victoria's friendship (my Sim) with Joe (my Sim) and Maggie's friendship (my Sim) with Joe (my Sim). You are driving me crazy playing my game for me.
ETA: Before I had to start over with this one, last time I tried playing this you made Victoria forget all about Joe though they had been roommates for a few weeks in another save, and the next day after moving Victoria in with the Stoddards she didn't know Joe anymore. Just totally wiped out. Thanks. It's so much fun to start over and over and over and over...Not.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I just realized, it probably would be a good idea to tag the new QA guys about these issues. @SimGuruArvin@SimGuruNick Tags @crinrict while I'm at it too.
Thanks, maybe they would like my saves. I hope they have a full head of hair, because I have about lost all mine in the last few weeks from pulling it out every time I load it.
This head-scratcher's picture-worthy. Since I had to kill off my main to fix my inventory problem, I've just been randomly switching around mapped households and checking out various community lots. Lost my focus.
Never played retail, I work in it IRL, close enough for me. But I thought I'd take some to see about this clown spawning, and musical Kayleigh (Hugo's wife) wanted to buy a guitar, so off she and Hugo went to Magnolia Promenade, with a few friends/family. They're pregnant, via closet (another first), I wanted to share the joy.
I haven't even STARTED a lot, yet, I zoned in to the BIG one to look around, in a group with five people. (I know, guitars are in the small lot, I just wanted to look at the other 2 in live mode, before I end up there.)
Thing is, when I took that same group to the medium sized lot to look around, the game said Maaike and Kayleigh were "busy." Maaike just completely vanished (it may be her work time, though, it isn't consistent, but I have seen that occasionally).
Why is Hugo's hot new wife WHO WANTED THE GUITAR (well, instrument) still across the street, "go home" icon active, and what had her so busy she couldn't go along for this minor little trip?
It *can't* be that the lot is full. My group is all that's there. And at midday, I highly doubt it's a lot population restriction. 5 is a long way from 20.
What just happened here?
If anybody's interested in how I got the list of who's instanced, that's a single-function mod written by our own elelunicy.
I just had something else weird happen, and @Cinebar I'd love to know if you've seen THIS.
It may be because of what I was doing, a mod thing, but I'm wondering if it's another piece of the "travel" problems. If we both see it, probably.
I left a retail lot (went out to MH) with about 15 people scattered around, did my thing, and returned (via a side-trip to Luna, at home after school) to the lot. To TWO people, my couple.
It wasn't a complete reset, there's still food on the picnic table and ground around them, but the group (icons for the 2 left) isn't there anymore, and all the people eating with my 2 actives just went away, poof.
"Where Have All the People Gone" vibe. Maybe it's something tied to retail, I was hanging out there till I got a clown to spawn.
Sure doesn't do much for the You Rule experience, when you can't even edit sims on a whim, without returning to where you'd just been, only to find NOTHING (not one extra sim!!) where you left it.
Locals know better than to move my things. I wish EA would get that clue.
I have seen a group of Sims (not in a GT group) go poof recently. I took one Sim to the Blue Whale unfortunately it was ladies' night. That means no guys are going to show up in my game. Anyway, I sent her home and switched households to take someone else there, a male. All those ladies (about seven) were still there but all waved and left as soon as my male Sim got there. So, it was a dead place and no use hanging around. The game kept them there long enough for my other Sim to get there (from a different household) but then decided to reset the lot and made them all leave. But that doesn't mean the game resets the actual lot because no it doesn't clean it up if you switch households that fast to take another Sim to the same lot.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
This reminds me in another thread I just posted but it belongs here. Maxis, your game took my Elizabeth Stoddard living in Collinwood and hooked her up with my Sam living with his daughter (YA) in my other house. Why? I didn't make the flirt, they met a few times. Nothing more. But your game hooked them up and turned them into love birds. So,....now I have to keep them apart *(my Sims!) in two different houses, Mine. ETA: While I wasn't playing them your game hooked them up when they live apart in two different houses.
Your game built this false relationship and ruined my story. On top of everything else. But you cull Victoria's friendship (my Sim) with Joe (my Sim) and Maggie's friendship (my Sim) with Joe (my Sim). You are driving me crazy playing my game for me.
ETA: Before I had to start over with this one, last time I tried playing this you made Victoria forget all about Joe though they had been roommates for a few weeks in another save, and the next day after moving Victoria in with the Stoddards she didn't know Joe anymore. Just totally wiped out. Thanks. It's so much fun to start over and over and over and over...Not.
I totally agree, it is even more sad when they take My married Sims, and make it so they do not even know each other, and go off with other Sims not mine, Yup EA & Maxis really needs to fix this problem for sure.
I really, really need them to explain to me how it is logical to cull my own Sims relationships between my own Sims (never met after that) but add false relationships back to them from townies? If this was all done for performance sake. It is totally circumventing the very reason they applied the relationship culling> to take it away (my Sims relationships) from my Sims but add it to (fake relationships) my Sims with Townies.
ETA: And now from my own households to households. Think about it, Maxis. Two of my Sims living in different houses. They met in passing. I go back to play one after playing a third household to find out you matched up those two Sims. WTH.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I'd love to hear something from a Guru on the random romance thing too or more on relationships culling. I'm doubtful any of them have looked at this thread though
Hi, @Cinebar! Thank you for the awesomely detailed feedback! I want to make sure that I have everything properly recorded here, so I'm going to do a brief one-liner summary of each issue you mentioned. Please tell me if I'm missing anything below!
Sims are sitting and standing constantly during socializations (aka "musical chairs")
Sims are using a different (and farther away) bookcase than the one you clicked on. Also occurs with grills and computers.
Sims are sitting down before using the Put Away interaction (or getting into a tub, instead of sitting)
Photos, paintings and Mysterious Time Capsules are getting stuck in the Sim's inventory
Crafted items in the inventory have a black and silver star for their thumbnail icon
After inviting an NPC friend to another lot with your Sim, the NPC will leave shortly after, and there is no TNS informing you they left. Also occurs on vacation lots.
Relationships being culled (although you mentioned they WEREN'T culled, and Carolyn was lying. What do you mean here? Like, they were friends in the Rel Panel, but Carolyn had Introduce interactions available?)
Sims are walking long distances to wave to someone, and there's nothing in their queue.
Sims are chasing down NPCs who are leaving the lot, in an attempt to socialize, with the social interaction eventually just dropping out of queue
Practicing Charisma on the floor mirror from GT doesn't work correctly
Sim went for a Jog and got stuck miles from her home with no option to Return Home
Sim admired his own artwork, and whim for admiring art did not fulfill
Sims are getting Tense (due to fire) when entering a room where a fire took place several hours ago
Played Sims are sent to community lots, and when the user switches control back to the Sims that are still at the house, the Sims that were sent to community lots return immediately
Resume Writing doesn't work, and the Sim starts over
NPC patients in the hospital are constantly getting up to talk to the user's Sim
I think that's everything, but please correct me if I forgot one! Also, I would absolutely love any save files you have that are exhibiting these issues. We were already aware of a majority of these, and can already reproduce most on our own, but extra save files are always awesome! They help us ensure issues get fixed for everyone, and not just fixed in my own game.
And thank you again for the detailed paragraphs describing each issue. I summarized each issue for my own organizational purposes, but you have no idea how helpful that is for when we're investigating.
Thank you for responding @SimGuruNick. Number 2 is happening with sinks too. Why the addition of dishwashers was badly needed. Where should we send save files to?
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Is it possible to get a "disable ALL players comments' button? I do not like the 'social' part of this game. And I don't like people following me without my permission. In S3 you didn't have to think about this. In S4, there is no way to stop bad players from harassing you. Never an issue in S3, never had a problem there. It's kids, pretty much, saying and doing what they want. They are ruining the game. I'd like to play my game, keep the online services notifications on, in case it goes down for maintenance, and not see ranting from kids. Is that too much to hope for in the upcoming updates?
@Cinebar Very quick off topic note as related to your DS save.. Awesome. I actually saw that whole series on Sci Fi -- as it was called then-- So cool that I know all the characters you reference.
ulling is not necessarily bad if it is supposed to be working as intended, but too much culling which in turn leaves your towns deserted is not good and the way I see if someone complained about not enough sims in Sims 3 then that is what you will eventually get in Sims 4.
Omen by HP Intel®️ Core™️ i9- 12900K W/ RGB Liquid Cooler 32GB Nvidia RTX 3080 10Gb ASUS Ultra-Wide 34" Curved Monitor. Omen By HP Intel® Core™ i7-12800HX 32 GB Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB 17.3 Screen
@SimGuruNick, I want to thank you for posting in my thread and reading my very long ramblings. I can't tell you how much it is appreciated for anyone on the Sims' Team to show interest in these problems in my game which are making it too annoying to play.
Yes, you got everything exactly right. Super. I really enjoy pretending these are the Dark Shadows' Characters and would like to get back to playing them if these things can be tweaked, fixed, and or corrected and changed.
Just one thing about number 7. Carolyn and Joe were already friends. I sent Joe and Maggie to visit Carolyn. I was going to try to start up a romantic relationship between Joe and Carolyn when Maggie did the hook up interaction on Carolyn, she said she didn't know him. That was surprising since they were already friends (all my own Sims living in different households).
I would love to see this all fixed so I can get back to building Collinsport (not very good) and keep playing.
Thank You SimGuruNick I will try to figure out how to get you my saves.
Oh one you forgot, A Sim (which isn't listed in the main post) got stuck out on the roof on the second floor of their house when visiting their house with another Sim. He was locked away on the third floor ( ) but escaped and was underneath the roof.
Thank you.
ETA: I just want you to know I have been overly tense lately with these problems in my game. And just knowing you guys are aware of some of these problems for players, and are actively working to fix them and acknowledge some of the ones in this thread, has removed all my tension. So, God Bless You. Whoo, it's good not to be so tense, anymore.
Post edited by Cinebar on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I sent all my saves too, sadly there are a lot of them to @SimGuruNick. Hopefully some of the bugs can be worked out. It's not the first time I've sent saves over before since I had to with the incest issue as well. I just wanted to thank @SimGuruDrake for helping get QA devs to help us out more with bugs and issues. Hopefully we can get this communication going more and more so that the game becomes more stable for not just Simmers on forums, but off them as well. Thank you for making the thread @Cinebar since it sums a lot of the current bugs occurring for all of us. I still can't stand the multiple versions of culling personally because if I didn't have the MC Command Center mod, a lot of my saves would be ruined by that feature.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
lol they took all the fun and life out of the game, like waking up and NOT making the bed, or stove fires from walking away from cooking, no walking to where you want to go but teleporting to the spot.
This change in the age range the game is very lean. Excluding the debate toddlers, age teenager is very similar to the young adult. It seems that they just wanted to put the name "teen" in the body of a young adult to say that this age group is in the game. But there are very few differences between the two. These differences range from clothes to their interactions.
I wanted to see an improvement from this. Of course with the inclusion of toddlers.
Comments
The one long hair style parted in middle and long at shoulders is perfect for Victoria Winters' early style if you have seen it yet. I think it came in GT can't remember. Very '60's. It's a thin, sleek hairstyle not too puffy.
Awesome thank you kindly, I will try that for her, much appreciated.
@Polyrhythm, thank you for the link. No, I hadn't read the new information there, or rather back to the old stance, working as it should. Yes, it probably is working as it should but then I want to know what do we do with Daniel's statements months ago they were looking into it to see what can be changed? I guess we disregard those now? (I am speaking of culling and relationship culling statements) answered by them on Twitter.
Thanks, maybe they would like my saves. I hope they have a full head of hair, because I have about lost all mine in the last few weeks from pulling it out every time I load it.
Your game built this false relationship and ruined my story. On top of everything else. But you cull Victoria's friendship (my Sim) with Joe (my Sim) and Maggie's friendship (my Sim) with Joe (my Sim). You are driving me crazy playing my game for me.
ETA: Before I had to start over with this one, last time I tried playing this you made Victoria forget all about Joe though they had been roommates for a few weeks in another save, and the next day after moving Victoria in with the Stoddards she didn't know Joe anymore. Just totally wiped out. Thanks. It's so much fun to start over and over and over and over...Not.
Never played retail, I work in it IRL, close enough for me. But I thought I'd take some to see about this clown spawning, and musical Kayleigh (Hugo's wife) wanted to buy a guitar, so off she and Hugo went to Magnolia Promenade, with a few friends/family. They're pregnant, via closet (another first), I wanted to share the joy.
I haven't even STARTED a lot, yet, I zoned in to the BIG one to look around, in a group with five people. (I know, guitars are in the small lot, I just wanted to look at the other 2 in live mode, before I end up there.)
Thing is, when I took that same group to the medium sized lot to look around, the game said Maaike and Kayleigh were "busy." Maaike just completely vanished (it may be her work time, though, it isn't consistent, but I have seen that occasionally).
Why is Hugo's hot new wife WHO WANTED THE GUITAR (well, instrument) still across the street, "go home" icon active, and what had her so busy she couldn't go along for this minor little trip?
It *can't* be that the lot is full. My group is all that's there. And at midday, I highly doubt it's a lot population restriction. 5 is a long way from 20.
What just happened here?
If anybody's interested in how I got the list of who's instanced, that's a single-function mod written by our own elelunicy.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/idaflwiogbo4ieg/Get_Instanced_Sims.ts4script
Type this in the cheat bar:
get_instanced_sims
(edited for clarity)
https://deaderpool-mccc.com/
https://www.patreon.com/egwarhammer
https://twitter.com/eg4mccc
https://eg4mccc.tumblr.com/
It may be because of what I was doing, a mod thing, but I'm wondering if it's another piece of the "travel" problems. If we both see it, probably.
I left a retail lot (went out to MH) with about 15 people scattered around, did my thing, and returned (via a side-trip to Luna, at home after school) to the lot. To TWO people, my couple.
It wasn't a complete reset, there's still food on the picnic table and ground around them, but the group (icons for the 2 left) isn't there anymore, and all the people eating with my 2 actives just went away, poof.
"Where Have All the People Gone" vibe. Maybe it's something tied to retail, I was hanging out there till I got a clown to spawn.
Sure doesn't do much for the You Rule experience, when you can't even edit sims on a whim, without returning to where you'd just been, only to find NOTHING (not one extra sim!!) where you left it.
Locals know better than to move my things. I wish EA would get that clue.
Irritated.
https://deaderpool-mccc.com/
https://www.patreon.com/egwarhammer
https://twitter.com/eg4mccc
https://eg4mccc.tumblr.com/
I totally agree, it is even more sad when they take My married Sims, and make it so they do not even know each other, and go off with other Sims not mine, Yup EA & Maxis really needs to fix this problem for sure.
ETA: And now from my own households to households. Think about it, Maxis. Two of my Sims living in different houses. They met in passing. I go back to play one after playing a third household to find out you matched up those two Sims. WTH.
- Sims are sitting and standing constantly during socializations (aka "musical chairs")
- Sims are using a different (and farther away) bookcase than the one you clicked on. Also occurs with grills and computers.
- Sims are sitting down before using the Put Away interaction (or getting into a tub, instead of sitting)
- Photos, paintings and Mysterious Time Capsules are getting stuck in the Sim's inventory
- Crafted items in the inventory have a black and silver star for their thumbnail icon
- After inviting an NPC friend to another lot with your Sim, the NPC will leave shortly after, and there is no TNS informing you they left. Also occurs on vacation lots.
- Relationships being culled (although you mentioned they WEREN'T culled, and Carolyn was lying. What do you mean here? Like, they were friends in the Rel Panel, but Carolyn had Introduce interactions available?)
- Sims are walking long distances to wave to someone, and there's nothing in their queue.
- Sims are chasing down NPCs who are leaving the lot, in an attempt to socialize, with the social interaction eventually just dropping out of queue
- Practicing Charisma on the floor mirror from GT doesn't work correctly
- Sim went for a Jog and got stuck miles from her home with no option to Return Home
- Sim admired his own artwork, and whim for admiring art did not fulfill
- Sims are getting Tense (due to fire) when entering a room where a fire took place several hours ago
- Played Sims are sent to community lots, and when the user switches control back to the Sims that are still at the house, the Sims that were sent to community lots return immediately
- Resume Writing doesn't work, and the Sim starts over
- NPC patients in the hospital are constantly getting up to talk to the user's Sim
I think that's everything, but please correct me if I forgot one! Also, I would absolutely love any save files you have that are exhibiting these issues. We were already aware of a majority of these, and can already reproduce most on our own, but extra save files are always awesome! They help us ensure issues get fixed for everyone, and not just fixed in my own game.And thank you again for the detailed paragraphs describing each issue. I summarized each issue for my own organizational purposes, but you have no idea how helpful that is for when we're investigating.
-SimGuruNick
-SimGuruNick
Yes, you got everything exactly right. Super. I really enjoy pretending these are the Dark Shadows' Characters and would like to get back to playing them if these things can be tweaked, fixed, and or corrected and changed.
Just one thing about number 7. Carolyn and Joe were already friends. I sent Joe and Maggie to visit Carolyn. I was going to try to start up a romantic relationship between Joe and Carolyn when Maggie did the hook up interaction on Carolyn, she said she didn't know him. That was surprising since they were already friends (all my own Sims living in different households).
I would love to see this all fixed so I can get back to building Collinsport (not very good) and keep playing.
Thank You SimGuruNick I will try to figure out how to get you my saves.
Oh one you forgot, A Sim (which isn't listed in the main post) got stuck out on the roof on the second floor of their house when visiting their house with another Sim. He was locked away on the third floor (
Thank you.
ETA: I just want you to know I have been overly tense lately with these problems in my game. And just knowing you guys are aware of some of these problems for players, and are actively working to fix them and acknowledge some of the ones in this thread, has removed all my tension. So, God Bless You. Whoo, it's good not to be so tense, anymore.
Family Carvalho Branco.
I wanted to see an improvement from this. Of course with the inclusion of toddlers.
Family Carvalho Branco.