Myself and others have been doing that for over a year now.
Yep pretty much get this as a response. It is like talking to a wall most of the time.
At least the Sims 4 is finally starting to break out of the silent treatment. It got so bad at one time it felt like when I'm trying to talk to my nephew sometimes when he doesn't bother to listen.
Definitely.
I know it certainly felt that way when they announced Get Together; an expansion pack no one asked for.
No one might have asked for it, but a lot of people certainly loved it. And I know some people didn't, but it's the highest rated pack for this iteration of The Sims since Spa Day.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
I mean $70-$80 for the base game depending on If you got the premium or not. This game cost 2/3 of 100 dollars & It just seems like It would at least hold weather, story progression, more activity objects and no bad culling. What happened .. like.
Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.
Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.
Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.
The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.
Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.
I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.
I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?
My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.
The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.
Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.
Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone.
The point I'm making is that the game should have had basic weather in addition to bars and lots of other features. I believe the only reason we got bars in the base game was because it was cheap and fast for them to do. I don't believe it had anything to do with giving players a feature they love. I know you like the game and I am happy you enjoy it, but others like myself can't enjoy the game because to us, we think things are missing.
(...)
Then tell Maxis what you want. Why do you care what others want or don't want ?
I feel insighted by this ^
So I'm compelled to share...
Umm hello?.. is that not the point of us posting here? The official forums.
Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.
Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.
Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.
The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.
Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.
I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.
I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?
My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.
The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.
Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.
Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone.
Because we didn't get nightlife. We got a new room to talk in. There was nothing nightlife-ish about it. And you must have the magic game because my clubs and bars were always full of children. Some "grown-up" activities. As a matter of fact, even after GT came out, my child sim was asked to cut school by a child sim and where did they go? Clubbin'. So even now, that's still a problem.
What you can do in the clubs, you could have done on any lot with a bar on it. There is nothing special going on other than the scripts forcing the sims to buy drinks and dance here and there. Big woop. They do that anyway. In which case, you could have made a community lot and added bars to make it - wait for it - a bar! I had movie theaters in the base game. You know how? I added a tv that I enlarged to community lot. *gasps*
P.S. --I just love how the first thing that you argumentatives throw out is the defensive **is my game wrong** in response to everything just because you don't have a good answer to the complaints.
Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.
Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.
Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.
The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.
Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.
I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.
I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?
My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.
The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.
Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.
Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone.
Because we didn't get nightlife. We got a new room to talk in. There was nothing nightlife-ish about it. And you must have the magic game because my clubs and bars were always full of children. Some "grown-up" activities. As a matter of fact, even after GT came out, my child sim was asked to cut school by a child sim and where did they go? Clubbin'. So even now, that's still a problem.
What you can do in the clubs, you could have done on any lot with a bar on it. There is nothing special going on other than the scripts forcing the sims to buy drinks and dance here and there. Big woop. They do that anyway. In which case, you could have made a community lot and added bars to make it - wait for it - a bar! I had movie theaters in the base game. You know how? I added a tv that I enlarged to community lot. *gasps*
P.S. --I just love how the first thing that you argumentatives throw out is the defensive **is my game wrong** in response to everything just because you don't have a good answer to the complaints.
What would be a "good answer" to you? What am I supposed to say that would convince you that the nightlife venues in the basegame (which is the topic here) make a difference to my gameplay beyond the items themselves on random lots?
And as for defensiveness, yeah, if you're going to keep telling me that something I experience as different and valuable is just a bunch of meh and worthless, I'm going to get defensive. Who wouldn't? [deleted the rest - I'm so done with this]
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
Yeah even the nightlife aspect needs fleshing out. I know partying was a lot more fun in the Sims 1. Might be because the Sims seems to be under so much political correctness now. First game, Sims were allowed to be a bit more naughty. Back before the woohoo days I guess. Partying just isn't as fun for the Sims as it used to be.
I really hope weather isn't affected by political correctness too. Like can't have lightning because it could "harm" the Sims. That would stink. I want real weather that can cause consequences at times, not just be a pretty FX effect to look at. I want it to actually bring gameplay.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I am taking a break from Sims 4, 3, and 2, and playing The Sims Castaway Stories.
(I just bought it less than a week ago, for PC - Because I already had it for Wii, I was too curious of the differences)
There are many differences, and everything looks way better!
(I am keeping both versions - with my Sims games, Gotta Keep Them All, lol! )
The first time I heard a loud thunderstorm in my game, not only did I think it was very realistic, but it made me miss having weather in Sims 4 even more.
They seemed to have run out of time on a lot of things. I think weather probably wasn't a priority compared to other features. I'm sure it will come in an EP in the future.
More animation 'that would bloat their folders', and with that in mind, I think we can plan on more of the same boring games with more screen loading and nothing much more than reused animations there and at home. Why all of sudden with sims4 is there a 'bloat the folders' and financial issue? You have to know all we're being given is reused animation and them hoping we'll let our little minds play 'let's pretend' to fill in what they're too lazy and too cheap to make the game playable again. And now we're gonna get to eat out on the town..... reused animations and a little extra childrens stuff. I tried the owning a bakery and found it to soon get as repetitive as gtw cops, hospital and working in the lab. Nice and safe, no surprises ever and tedious as all get out trying for a promotion.
What's the animations bloating the folders thing? I've never heard of that. And what financial issues are you talking about?
I'm not going to get into an arguement over my comment, but since your on the forums all the time, you should know what I'm talking about, but just for the heck of it I'll post it. From the beginning the gurus per say, said the reason they couldn't make a real bear for the vacation pack was because it would bloat their folders, ok? As for the the cost, it's also been made clear they have a tight budget.
Wow. Someone's got their knickers in a twist. I simply asked you to clarify. I wasn't in the forums when OR came out so missed all that drama. I really have never heard the bloated folders comment. As for the other, I hadn't really heard the gurus talk a lot about how tight their financial budget is though I have heard them talk about the animations and features budgets (as in how many animations or features are budgeted for each pack). Well I appreciate you taking time to answer even if you did it with both guns blazing.
Maybe that's because you and others insist on bugging ppl in these threads to argue their point. If you are not an EA person, than don't come here trying to justify what you "think" is the reason for what they do. You're like that annoying little brother who thinks he knows everything. Let ppl talk w/o constantly telling them how 'misled' and how perfect you and Ea are. If you don't agree, do to the threads where everything is cheerleader happy. How many times in this thread alone have you interrupted the conversation? Yeah, it gets tiresome. And I think you guys have figured out a way to get threads removed as well. Work ppl up enough and the thread disappears.
*pulls MysticOne's pigtails and dips them in ink after placing a frog in their bed*
MOOOOOOOMMMMM!!! Look what he did to my braids!! I've been sick in bed with a bloody eye and now look! *casting an evil big sister glance at ebuchala* You just wait till I baby sit you again and then we'll see who's panties are in a bunch *bwahahahaha*
Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.
Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.
Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.
The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.
Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.
I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.
I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?
My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.
The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.
Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.
Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone.
Because we didn't get nightlife. We got a new room to talk in. There was nothing nightlife-ish about it. And you must have the magic game because my clubs and bars were always full of children. Some "grown-up" activities. As a matter of fact, even after GT came out, my child sim was asked to cut school by a child sim and where did they go? Clubbin'. So even now, that's still a problem.
What you can do in the clubs, you could have done on any lot with a bar on it. There is nothing special going on other than the scripts forcing the sims to buy drinks and dance here and there. Big woop. They do that anyway. In which case, you could have made a community lot and added bars to make it - wait for it - a bar! I had movie theaters in the base game. You know how? I added a tv that I enlarged to community lot. *gasps*
P.S. --I just love how the first thing that you argumentatives throw out is the defensive **is my game wrong** in response to everything just because you don't have a good answer to the complaints.
What would be a "good answer" to you? What am I supposed to say that would convince you that the nightlife venues in the basegame (which is the topic here) make a difference to my gameplay beyond the items themselves on random lots?
And as for defensiveness, yeah, if you're going to keep telling me that something I experience as different and valuable is just a bunch of meh and worthless, I'm going to get defensive. Who wouldn't? [deleted the rest - I'm so done with this]
Please don't take this personally. I understand that it's disheartening that we are critiquing something you genuinely enjoy. Nonetheless I want to thank you for your perspectives that you have contributed here. You have kept my thread alive such that perhaps Monday morning a Guru will see it. For anyone in the studio to see it....and more importantly, realize there is a fan out there that has higher expectations for a sims game released after 16 years of live mode.
It just saddens me to see how much this series has regressed. You see, I just want to genuinely enjoy the game too. And for me, if "this" is what we're getting after 4 generations, shame on them (of course again, IMO)
~
Interesting thread. Took me a couple days just to read it (it's so active).
@Neia I asked the question about animation regarding S2 & 3 compared to 4 (couldn't quote because it's too far back) because I don't believe there is anything in S4 that is more complex than what is in S2 or S3 after the same relative time in development (love them or hate them). I just can't buy into that argument. Read the link and still not buying into it. Nuff said there.
As for the rest. Yes. Business is business. This is pretty much to be expected by this time given the trends of other games, and the complaints regarding lack of content/substance held at ransom. Maybe that's too drastic to say—'ransom'—but I don't care right now (just trying to address a few issues in as few words as possible).
It's true this is a trend in gaming. I see it said here over and over (as well as other places), but I personally don't feel that makes it right—not that it matters. I don't care nor feel like jumping off a bridge just because the Jones's are doing it.
All-in-all, I feel everyone here had/has a valid point when it comes to subjective matter (be it for or against). You like the game: great. You don't like the game: not so great.
But I can't help but feel many of the arguments regarding the decisions made are nothing more nor less than defensive arguments. This is not good. As long as standards remain low, they will continue to lower. Simply said: That's not good.
The point I'm making is that the game should have had basic weather in addition to bars and lots of other features. I believe the only reason we got bars in the base game was because it was cheap and fast for them to do. I don't believe it had anything to do with giving players a feature they love. I know you like the game and I am happy you enjoy it, but others like myself can't enjoy the game because to us, we think things are missing.
Is it so unreasonable to expect the fourth iteration of The Sims to come with all standard life stages?
Is it unreasonable to expect the sims to have A.I. that makes them unique and appropriately responsive to their environment and other sims?
On that point you can argue it is subjective, but the Gurus themselves pretty much admitted the reactions in game for the first 12 months were broken because they overhauled it in a patch and posted they were watching forum threads on that issue. If it wasn't broke they wouldn't have fixed it.
Is it so unreasonable to expect a 2014 AAA game that is a life simulator to have basic weather when pretty much every modern game has it as standard, even 3DS games?
Where are the firemen, social workers, burglars etc.?
You might think the base game was value for money, but many of us don't. We need more to enjoy the game and the predecessor base games had more content than The Sims 4.
Anyone who plays lots of video games can clearly see that The Sims 4 has not had much money or time spent developing it. It is the fourth iteration of the series yet it brought nothing new. It has the exact same gameplay of the predecessors. Where is the progress? Where is the use of modern technology? We should have progressive ageing by now. The Sims 4 could have been released in 2009. 5 years since The Sims 3 was released and no innovation and no progress, just regression.
How are the tiny worlds and their static map acceptable? They look like something off a tablet game. The Sims 3 had a 3D map. I hate how I only have a few tiny options of where my sim lives. I hate there is no customisation options such as the colour wheel or create-a-style.
Why didn't the base game come with weather?
Why didn't the base game come with toddlers?
Why didn't the base game come with actual sim reactions?
Why didn't the base game come with pools?
Why didn't the base game come with a family tree?
Question upon question upon question can be asked about why certain things people think thought should have been in the base game were not.
Why do we get free content in patches? Because the base game was released unfinished. That is the only reason and people can argue and argue that this is not the case, but it is. Those people like to explain to complainers the realities of business explain to us that every feature in the base game is budgeted. If they had added additional features we would have been charged more.
Rightly, so; companies do not give things away for free.
Yet, many of you seem to accept that these 'free' monthly patches that add content are actually given free out of the goodness of EA's ever so generous corporate heart ...
They didn't add x feature to the base game because of the budget, but they can give us free content updates pretty much every month ...?
It is illogical.
The patches are finishing off the incomplete base game and besides bug fixes, that is the only reason we receive them. The game was released unfinished because EA needed a revenue boost and they knew they could get away with releasing the game in such a shoddy state because sims players are very dedicated to the franchise.
All of the features we expected a AAA 2014 base game to have could have been there and at a normal game price.
This is a great post. I read it a few times and see nothing wrong with it. I feel your arguments are valid. What I don't understand is why people who are happy with the game would feel that improving the game and/or building upon it like you more or less suggested is a bad thing. I don't understand why the effort put into what you mentioned is met with opposition—especially when I consider what's been done in the past.
I understand people like this game the way it is. I just don't understand why they wouldn't have liked it better had it been improved upon. I am truly baffled regardless of how many times I read the reasons.
Even if they added and built upon what was already there, they still could have added several more options and gameplay with SPs, GPs, and EPs. When it comes to life, the options are endless. They are only limited by one's imagination. Yet, it appears all anyone wants to do is put an end to that imagination.
It's no wonder no other company wants to take on this beast. It's also no wonder EA appears to be losing interest in it (my take on it). From what I've gathered, this game is simply far too complex and demanding for anyone to want to take on, especially when they want to cut corners while pushing up the profit margins.
Post edited by kremesch73 on
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
@blueturtleotter
Perhaps you shouldn't be asking questions like "Why isn't there X ?" or "Is it unreasonable to expect X ?" on a forum if you don't want people anwsering them.
You can think the game is missing this or that, I don't care. But if you're aren't respecting the fact that others may not miss this or that, then I'm going to care. And if you're trying to "prove" that the game is missing, I'm going to challenge your arguments. Like no, Maxis is probably not telling us anything by releasing free patches when that's a common practice in the video game industry. No, making bars probably wasn't that easy. No, playing a lot of video game doesn't make one "clearly see that The Sims 4 has not had much money or time spent developing it". No, EA isn't giving free things out of goodness either and yes, these free patches have a budget too.
@kremesch73
I think the problem is that the improvement discussions are too often based on the premise that the game is lacking/missing something/the standard is low. A premise that isn't shared by everybody. And these improvement discussions are too often missing the fact that what is an improvement is a subjective matter too.
I've enjoyed playing TS4 on released day, before any patch or DLC, and I'm still enjoying it now with a bunch of patches/DLCs under its belt. I don't think I'm accepting a lower standard here, I'm just lucky the set of features they have chosen for this iteration is suiting me. When people are saying something else should have been in the base game, they are basically changing this set of features. This may or may not be an improvement for me.
I don't think including a basic weather, instead of whatever they would have removed, would have truly been an improvement for me because I want more than just basic weather. I want a lot of weather, I want customizations, I want seasons, I want interactions with the weather, I want a full EP because Seasons/Weather is something I really like and I want Maxis to expand them a lot, not just include the basic. I don't want just a rain FX.
@blueturtleotter
Perhaps you shouldn't be asking questions like "Why isn't there X ?" or "Is it unreasonable to expect X ?" on a forum if you don't want people anwsering them.
You can think the game is missing this or that, I don't care. But if you're aren't respecting the fact that others may not miss this or that, then I'm going to care. And if you're trying to "prove" that the game is missing, I'm going to challenge your arguments. Like no, Maxis is probably not telling us anything by releasing free patches when that's a common practice in the video game industry. No, making bars probably wasn't that easy. No, playing a lot of video game doesn't make one "clearly see that The Sims 4 has not had much money or time spent developing it". No, EA isn't giving free things out of goodness either and yes, these free patches have a budget too.
@kremesch73
I think the problem is that the improvement discussions are too often based on the premise that the game is lacking/missing something/the standard is low. A premise that isn't shared by everybody. And these improvement discussions are too often missing the fact that what is an improvement is a subjective matter too.
I've enjoyed playing TS4 on released day, before any patch or DLC, and I'm still enjoying it now with a bunch of patches/DLCs under its belt. I don't think I'm accepting a lower standard here, I'm just lucky the set of features they have chosen for this iteration is suiting me. When people are saying something else should have been in the base game, they are basically changing this set of features. This may or may not be an improvement for me.
I don't think including a basic weather, instead of whatever they would have removed, would have truly been an improvement for me because I want more than just basic weather. I want a lot of weather, I want customizations, I want seasons, I want interactions with the weather, I want a full EP because Seasons/Weather is something I really like and I want Maxis to expand them a lot, not just include the basic. I don't want just a rain FX.
Boy...you don't bother reading or comprehending anything anyone posts if you don't like it. Everyone has said basic weather that can be expanded on in a future EP. Heck, they might even bring something new to it since they'd have more time freed up.
You may have liked the game as is, but that doesn't make it an improvement. An improvement is indicative of an advancement of features. Nothing in this game improved from previous games. You believe what you want, but that doesn't make you right...because these are facts. This is not subjective like you seem to think. Code to code, TS2 and TS3, heck, even TS1 runs circles around TS4. Those games were simulations, had good character design and AI, emotions that actually worked logically, worlds that could be manipulated, terrain tools to help build outside the box, open ended gameplay, and much much more. TS4 dumps all data from background characters and just for good measure deletes them, too. And let's not forget that now it also deletes relationships, even among your played sims. While everything that was happening in previous games was saved and stored to advance the neighborhood, TS4 creates illusions so you think it looks lively and then deletes the data. This game says generate 1 angry sims, 3 joggers, etc. That angry sims isn't angry for a reason. The game just generated a random angry sim. In the previous games, that sims would have been angry because someone provoked him or something actually happened to him. That's the difference. And that is a degradation in technology.
TS2 has a sims limit if 30K. That's a 10 year old game used by 15 year old computers. You think that by now we'd actually get something that makes use of the processors we have now. But no. The last time I checked, TS4's sim limit was 180. TS2's original sim limit was 1K from the start, they upped it when they realized how many sims and babies players were having.
@Mstybl95
I said I didn't want weather that is just FX. That does not interest me, whether in a base game or not. That's just my opinion on the matter. What's so hard to accept about it ? I just don't want FX weather in the base game, even if it's expanded later, because basic FX weather doesn't interest me. Just like a toddler stuck in a playpen would not have interested me either, no matter if they expand them later. And I already explained why I doubt it would have freed up time, doing something twice does not create free time.
TS4 is more in-depth in some area (multitasking, moodlets/emotions system, more body shapes, some new Build mode functionalities like moving rooms, search function in Buy mode), which may or may not be an improvement for you, but certainly is for me. The fact that you can cherry-pick some features that were more in-depth or that you personally prefer in other iterations doesn't prove anything (but good character design ? logical emotions ? that's hardly "objective") nor does it completely negate the rest of the features. "TS4 is an improvement" does not equal "everything that existed in previous iterations has been improved in TS4". But anyway I didn't even talk about TS4 being an improvement for me in the post you quoted so I don't understand why you're talking about it.
There's no 180 limit in TS4 by the way, there's no hard cap on the number of played Sims that we know of. (And the limit before NPC culling is 210 since GT)
The only problem I generally have with threads such as these is just that ... they are opinions. Opinions are not facts. How does that old saying go ... one persons trash is another persons treasure. If you do not like fish ... then no matter how it is cooked ... your not going like it. You dislike Sims4 ... then no matter what they do it ( aside from probably ending it ) your not going to like it.
If I could @Mstybl95,I want to borrow some thing out of your post.
Nothing in this game improved from previous games. You believe what you want, but that doesn't make you right...because these are facts. This is not subjective like you seem to think.
I like CAS, I think it is an improvement over what we had before. I like the push/pull method. I find it easier to make diverse sims using it vs bars hidden in folders. It is fast, fluid and click, click, click done.
I have said it before, will say it again. I love how the child stage is done for the Sims4. For the first time I actually enjoy the child stage. It is my favorite stage to play. I let me kids be kids and not just skilling beasts getting ready for later in life. I like the look, right down to the mis-matched socks. I like a lot of the animations, the monkey bars.
I love the cooking skill. Its gourmet section, the separate baking section. The different foods cooked on the grill vs the oven. I like how they expanded the cooking in the game.
Are any of those perfect, no. Could they be improved, yes. Do I still think they are an improvement from the previous games ... yes. Do you, maybe not. But that is the point ... they are both opinions. Neither is right, neither is wrong. But to say nothing at all has been improved ... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
The only problem I generally have with threads such as these is just that ... they are opinions. Opinions are not facts. How does that old saying go ... one persons trash is another persons treasure. If you do not like fish ... then no matter how it is cooked ... your not going like it. You dislike Sims4 ... then no matter what they do it ( aside from probably ending it ) your not going to like it.
If I could @Mstybl95,I want to borrow some thing out of your post.
Nothing in this game improved from previous games. You believe what you want, but that doesn't make you right...because these are facts. This is not subjective like you seem to think.
I like CAS, I think it is an improvement over what we had before. I like the push/pull method. I find it easier to make diverse sims using it vs bars hidden in folders. It is fast, fluid and click, click, click done.
I have said it before, will say it again. I love how the child stage is done for the Sims4. For the first time I actually enjoy the child stage. It is my favorite stage to play. I let me kids be kids and not just skilling beasts getting ready for later in life. I like the look, right down to the mis-matched socks. I like a lot of the animations, the monkey bars.
I love the cooking skill. Its gourmet section, the separate baking section. The different foods cooked on the grill vs the oven. I like how they expanded the cooking in the game.
Are any of those perfect, no. Could they be improved, yes. Do I still think they are an improvement from the previous games ... yes. Do you, maybe not. But that is the point ... they are both opinions. Neither is right, neither is wrong. But to say nothing at all has been improved ... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
@Gruffman I very like what you said, and I think you are optimistic... but unfortunately is a fact that The sims 4 is a regression game instead of an evolution. The only things improved are the CAS and only Some aspect of the Build mode. Because there isn't still a terrain/pond tool and the new wall system doesn't seems creative-friendly. I mean if I want to build a fake garage while I have a house with the basement, well. I can't just do it right because of this restriction in the game... where all the walls need to have a basement under them. And babies carried to the cribs a la TS1...These things doesn't happen in TS2 & TS3. What amusing me is the fact that the patches seems to add things that should be in the base game since September 2, 2014. I really hope that something will change, but I highly doubt if the continue in this way. My fear is that the game engine is so restricted and limited... so this game have not all this potential that everyone says. The real problem is tied to the origins... Olympus. Back in 2013 there was Simcity's fiasco, so it was obvious for them to remove the "All time online game". But having done this they had to do things from the scratch. Only time will tell if they can save this game from all this total mess
The only problem I generally have with threads such as these is just that ... they are opinions. Opinions are not facts. How does that old saying go ... one persons trash is another persons treasure. If you do not like fish ... then no matter how it is cooked ... your not going like it. You dislike Sims4 ... then no matter what they do it ( aside from probably ending it ) your not going to like it.
If I could @Mstybl95,I want to borrow some thing out of your post.
Nothing in this game improved from previous games. You believe what you want, but that doesn't make you right...because these are facts. This is not subjective like you seem to think.
I like CAS, I think it is an improvement over what we had before. I like the push/pull method. I find it easier to make diverse sims using it vs bars hidden in folders. It is fast, fluid and click, click, click done.
I have said it before, will say it again. I love how the child stage is done for the Sims4. For the first time I actually enjoy the child stage. It is my favorite stage to play. I let me kids be kids and not just skilling beasts getting ready for later in life. I like the look, right down to the mis-matched socks. I like a lot of the animations, the monkey bars.
I love the cooking skill. Its gourmet section, the separate baking section. The different foods cooked on the grill vs the oven. I like how they expanded the cooking in the game.
Are any of those perfect, no. Could they be improved, yes. Do I still think they are an improvement from the previous games ... yes. Do you, maybe not. But that is the point ... they are both opinions. Neither is right, neither is wrong. But to say nothing at all has been improved ... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
@Gruffman I very like what you said, and I think you are optimistic... but unfortunately is a fact that The sims 4 is a regression game instead of an evolution. The only things improved are the CAS and only Some aspect of the Build mode. Because there isn't still a terrain/pond tool and the new wall system doesn't seems creative-friendly. I mean if I want to build a fake garage while I have a house with the basement, well. I can't just do it right because of this restriction in the game... where all the walls need to have a basement under them. And babies carried to the cribs a la TS1...These things doesn't happen in TS2 & TS3. What amusing me is the fact that the patches seems to add things that should be in the base game since September 2, 2014. I really hope that something will change, but I highly doubt if the continue in this way. My fear is that the game engine is so restricted and limited... so this game have not all this potential that everyone says. The real problem is tied to the origins... Olympus. Back in 2013 there was Simcity's fiasco, so it was obvious for them to remove the "All time online game". But having done this they had to do things from the scratch. Only time will tell if they can save this game from all this total mess
I just don't understand why they just don't come out and say "Yeah we screwed up, we are trying to fix it, sorry" and start talking to us on how to improve the game. Basically tell us what went wrong, why it went wrong and how they plan to help/fix it and then ask us to help them by coming with ideas or just talk to us.
The company Riot and Blizzard talks to their fans and tells the community what they are planning on doing, and then look on the feedback from the players and then decide what to do from there. While the Simguru's have stated they are listening/reading our post, the only one I see trying to talk to us is SimGuruDrake and she isn't saying that much (mostly due to the "can't talk about content" thing) if they'll just open up and talk, people might get less frustrated and more understanding, of course there will always be people who will complain, argue, etc, but most of us just wish to talk to them, help them in making Sims 4 a better game.
We get an official announcement about GP/SP/EP like a few weeks before they release, while WoW's Legion EP has been announced almost a year before its due to release and in that time, they have talked about what they are doing and adding, while keeping the major content reveals to themselves. Why not do that here? Are they afraid of angry fans? Afraid we won't like what they are making? They have already stated they can announce paid content whenever they want. But with free content they need to release that within the same quarter as announced. Since they won't say a thing, I get the bad feeling that the free content is needed in order to make the SP/GP/EP function as they are tied together, and therefore can't say anything till its in the same quarter, but that gives them 3 months to announce stuff in and we first get the announcement a few weeks before.
Bottom line is, I just wish they would open up and talk to us =/
Well, I'm just glad that they had an actual mixology skill added into the game rather than just adding bars with a random drink. I'm glad that there are different venues that are actually somewhat appropriate to go with a date, as there would only be two or three open venues where I can actually interact with them and it makes some sense, the museum, a park, or the beach, and then just clicking on buildings and waiting for the bar at the top of the screen to finish.
You obviously never bought or played the Late Night EP. Or are you referring to the basegame. In that case you're right of course.
Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.
Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.
Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.
The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.
Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.
I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.
I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?
My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.
The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.
Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.
Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone.
The point I'm making is that the game should have had basic weather in addition to bars and lots of other features. I believe the only reason we got bars in the base game was because it was cheap and fast for them to do. I don't believe it had anything to do with giving players a feature they love. I know you like the game and I am happy you enjoy it, but others like myself can't enjoy the game because to us, we think things are missing.
Is it so unreasonable to expect the fourth iteration of The Sims to come with all standard life stages?
Is it unreasonable to expect the sims to have A.I. that makes them unique and appropriately responsive to their environment and other sims?
On that point you can argue it is subjective, but the Gurus themselves pretty much admitted the reactions in game for the first 12 months were broken because they overhauled it in a patch and posted they were watching forum threads on that issue. If it wasn't broke they wouldn't have fixed it.
Is it so unreasonable to expect a 2014 AAA game that is a life simulator to have basic weather when pretty much every modern game has it as standard, even 3DS games?
Where are the firemen, social workers, burglars etc.?
You might think the base game was value for money, but many of us don't. We need more to enjoy the game and the predecessor base games had more content than The Sims 4.
Anyone who plays lots of video games can clearly see that The Sims 4 has not had much money or time spent developing it. It is the fourth iteration of the series yet it brought nothing new. It has the exact same gameplay of the predecessors. Where is the progress? Where is the use of modern technology? We should have progressive ageing by now. The Sims 4 could have been released in 2009. 5 years since The Sims 3 was released and no innovation and no progress, just regression.
How are the tiny worlds and their static map acceptable? They look like something off a tablet game. The Sims 3 had a 3D map. I hate how I only have a few tiny options of where my sim lives. I hate there is no customisation options such as the colour wheel or create-a-style.
Why didn't the base game come with weather?
Why didn't the base game come with toddlers?
Why didn't the base game come with actual sim reactions?
Why didn't the base game come with pools?
Why didn't the base game come with a family tree?
Question upon question upon question can be asked about why certain things people think thought should have been in the base game were not.
Why do we get free content in patches? Because the base game was released unfinished. That is the only reason and people can argue and argue that this is not the case, but it is. Those people like to explain to complainers the realities of business explain to us that every feature in the base game is budgeted. If they had added additional features we would have been charged more.
Rightly, so; companies do not give things away for free.
Yet, many of you seem to accept that these 'free' monthly patches that add content are actually given free out of the goodness of EA's ever so generous corporate heart ...
They didn't add x feature to the base game because of the budget, but they can give us free content updates pretty much every month ...?
It is illogical.
The patches are finishing off the incomplete base game and besides bug fixes, that is the only reason we receive them. The game was released unfinished because EA needed a revenue boost and they knew they could get away with releasing the game in such a shoddy state because sims players are very dedicated to the franchise.
All of the features we expected a AAA 2014 base game to have could have been there and at a normal game price.
Because they want to make the Sims Freeplay more appealing so the market will switch over to mobile only games like with SimCity is my guess. Cheaper for the company to make mobile games. There is still a PC market, so I hope this isn't the intent. The Sims Freeplay does get bragged about a lot more with the EA quarterlies it seems.
These Sprites are cute:
Those advertisements of Freeplay are so fake though. It looks nice, but it's not at all how it plays. I like all the ideas, but I want them in a real Sims game, not in an app.
@Mstybl95
I said I didn't want weather that is just FX. That does not interest me, whether in a base game or not. That's just my opinion on the matter. What's so hard to accept about it ? I just don't want FX weather in the base game, even if it's expanded later, because basic FX weather doesn't interest me. Just like a toddler stuck in a playpen would not have interested me either, no matter if they expand them later. And I already explained why I doubt it would have freed up time, doing something twice does not create free time.
TS4 is more in-depth in some area (multitasking, moodlets/emotions system, more body shapes, some new Build mode functionalities like moving rooms, search function in Buy mode), which may or may not be an improvement for you, but certainly is for me. The fact that you can cherry-pick some features that were more in-depth or that you personally prefer in other iterations doesn't prove anything (but good character design ? logical emotions ? that's hardly "objective") nor does it completely negate the rest of the features. "TS4 is an improvement" does not equal "everything that existed in previous iterations has been improved in TS4". But anyway I didn't even talk about TS4 being an improvement for me in the post you quoted so I don't understand why you're talking about it.
There's no 180 limit in TS4 by the way, there's no hard cap on the number of played Sims that we know of. (And the limit before NPC culling is 210 since GT)
Multitasking could add depth to a game, but in Sims 4 it just too often leads to ridiculous, unnatural situations. The forums are stuffed with examples, all presented by people who play or played the game. The moodlet/emotions system is very very shallow, there's absolutely nothing 'deep' about it. It's taking a shower and get flirty. More body shapes are nice to look at but as for gameplay that means absolutely nothing. Build mode funcionalities are easy, love them, but as for depth? Nope. CASt means depth (because it means I can create a house that's completely suitable for my sim). Being able to move rooms or adjust the heigth of windows (as great as it may be and as much as I'd like that in my Sims 3 game) doesn't add depth. Search function is great too (Sims 3 buy mode is a mess), but again: where on earth is the depth in that? It just makes searching easier, it has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself.
Well, I'm just glad that they had an actual mixology skill added into the game rather than just adding bars with a random drink. I'm glad that there are different venues that are actually somewhat appropriate to go with a date, as there would only be two or three open venues where I can actually interact with them and it makes some sense, the museum, a park, or the beach, and then just clicking on buildings and waiting for the bar at the top of the screen to finish.
You obviously never bought or played the Late Night EP. Or are you referring to the basegame. In that case you're right of course.
I was referring to just the base game, as they were having a discussion about how in-depth bars (either the object or the venue) were. The object bars themselves definitely got much more than they did in TS3, and that's one thing I'm glad they actually decided to work on rather than giving one generic drink.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
@Mstybl95
I said I didn't want weather that is just FX. That does not interest me, whether in a base game or not. That's just my opinion on the matter. What's so hard to accept about it ? I just don't want FX weather in the base game, even if it's expanded later, because basic FX weather doesn't interest me. Just like a toddler stuck in a playpen would not have interested me either, no matter if they expand them later. And I already explained why I doubt it would have freed up time, doing something twice does not create free time.
TS4 is more in-depth in some area (multitasking, moodlets/emotions system, more body shapes, some new Build mode functionalities like moving rooms, search function in Buy mode), which may or may not be an improvement for you, but certainly is for me. The fact that you can cherry-pick some features that were more in-depth or that you personally prefer in other iterations doesn't prove anything (but good character design ? logical emotions ? that's hardly "objective") nor does it completely negate the rest of the features. "TS4 is an improvement" does not equal "everything that existed in previous iterations has been improved in TS4". But anyway I didn't even talk about TS4 being an improvement for me in the post you quoted so I don't understand why you're talking about it.
There's no 180 limit in TS4 by the way, there's no hard cap on the number of played Sims that we know of. (And the limit before NPC culling is 210 since GT)
Multitasking could add depth to a game, but in Sims 4 it just too often leads to ridiculous, unnatural situations. The forums are stuffed with examples, all presented by people who play or played the game. The moodlet/emotions system is very very shallow, there's absolutely nothing 'deep' about it. It's taking a shower and get flirty. More body shapes are nice to look at but as for gameplay that means absolutely nothing. Build mode funcionalities are easy, love them, but as for depth? Nope. CASt means depth (because it means I can create a house that's completely suitable for my sim). Being able to move rooms or adjust the heigth of windows (as great as it may be and as much as I'd like that in my Sims 3 game) doesn't add depth. Search function is great too (Sims 3 buy mode is a mess), but again: where on earth is the depth in that? It just makes searching easier, it has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself.
I didn't mean these features add more depth to the games, I meant that each one of these features were more in-depth.
Well, I'm just glad that they had an actual mixology skill added into the game rather than just adding bars with a random drink. I'm glad that there are different venues that are actually somewhat appropriate to go with a date, as there would only be two or three open venues where I can actually interact with them and it makes some sense, the museum, a park, or the beach, and then just clicking on buildings and waiting for the bar at the top of the screen to finish.
You obviously never bought or played the Late Night EP. Or are you referring to the basegame. In that case you're right of course.
I was referring to just the base game, as they were having a discussion about how in-depth bars (either the object or the venue) were. The object bars themselves definitely got much more than they did in TS3, and that's one thing I'm glad they actually decided to work on rather than giving one generic drink.
It's true Sims 3 basegame didn't have bars, like Sims 2 basegame didn't have cars and the sequel did (and the sequel sequel didn't but that another subject ). I'm not really famliar with the Sims 4 bars to be honest, maybe I haven't given them a proper chance. They were sitting there and chatting. I love the features of the Late Night bars, I also love how that world came with different kind of nichtclubs, all with their own atmosphere.
It's true Sims 3 basegame didn't have bars, like Sims 2 basegame didn't have cars and the sequel did (and the sequel sequel didn't but that another subject ). I'm not really famliar with the Sims 4 bars to be honest, maybe I haven't given them a proper chance. They were sitting there and chatting. I love the features of the Late Night bars, I also love how that world came with different kind of nichtclubs, all with their own atmosphere.
Sims become obsessed with bars after learning the skill. XD I like the tiki bar, it has flames. But there are a lot of drinks for it and Sims do a lot of bartending tricks at it. They probably are the most fleshed out version of bars. I think GT EP expanded on them more with bar foods and games. I guess it doesn't hurt to check them out for yourself if you want.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I like the bars too, to an extent. Especially the amount of different drinks. I do miss being able to moonlight at them and get money from it though, makes maxing the mixology skill a bit disappointing imo
Comments
No one might have asked for it, but a lot of people certainly loved it. And I know some people didn't, but it's the highest rated pack for this iteration of The Sims since Spa Day.
So I'm compelled to share...
Umm hello?.. is that not the point of us posting here? The official forums.
Because we didn't get nightlife. We got a new room to talk in. There was nothing nightlife-ish about it. And you must have the magic game because my clubs and bars were always full of children. Some "grown-up" activities. As a matter of fact, even after GT came out, my child sim was asked to cut school by a child sim and where did they go? Clubbin'. So even now, that's still a problem.
What you can do in the clubs, you could have done on any lot with a bar on it. There is nothing special going on other than the scripts forcing the sims to buy drinks and dance here and there. Big woop. They do that anyway. In which case, you could have made a community lot and added bars to make it - wait for it - a bar! I had movie theaters in the base game. You know how? I added a tv that I enlarged to community lot. *gasps*
P.S. --I just love how the first thing that you argumentatives throw out is the defensive **is my game wrong** in response to everything just because you don't have a good answer to the complaints.
What would be a "good answer" to you? What am I supposed to say that would convince you that the nightlife venues in the basegame (which is the topic here) make a difference to my gameplay beyond the items themselves on random lots?
And as for defensiveness, yeah, if you're going to keep telling me that something I experience as different and valuable is just a bunch of meh and worthless, I'm going to get defensive. Who wouldn't? [deleted the rest - I'm so done with this]
I really hope weather isn't affected by political correctness too. Like can't have lightning because it could "harm" the Sims. That would stink. I want real weather that can cause consequences at times, not just be a pretty FX effect to look at. I want it to actually bring gameplay.
I am taking a break from Sims 4, 3, and 2, and playing The Sims Castaway Stories.
(I just bought it less than a week ago, for PC - Because I already had it for Wii, I was too curious of the differences)
There are many differences, and everything looks way better!
(I am keeping both versions - with my Sims games, Gotta Keep Them All, lol!
The first time I heard a loud thunderstorm in my game, not only did I think it was very realistic, but it made me miss having weather in Sims 4 even more.
MOOOOOOOMMMMM!!! Look what he did to my braids!! I've been sick in bed with a bloody eye and now look! *casting an evil big sister glance at ebuchala* You just wait till I baby sit you again and then we'll see who's panties are in a bunch *bwahahahaha*
Please don't take this personally. I understand that it's disheartening that we are critiquing something you genuinely enjoy. Nonetheless I want to thank you for your perspectives that you have contributed here. You have kept my thread alive such that perhaps Monday morning a Guru will see it. For anyone in the studio to see it....and more importantly, realize there is a fan out there that has higher expectations for a sims game released after 16 years of live mode.
It just saddens me to see how much this series has regressed. You see, I just want to genuinely enjoy the game too. And for me, if "this" is what we're getting after 4 generations, shame on them (of course again, IMO)
~
@Neia I asked the question about animation regarding S2 & 3 compared to 4 (couldn't quote because it's too far back) because I don't believe there is anything in S4 that is more complex than what is in S2 or S3 after the same relative time in development (love them or hate them). I just can't buy into that argument. Read the link and still not buying into it. Nuff said there.
As for the rest. Yes. Business is business. This is pretty much to be expected by this time given the trends of other games, and the complaints regarding lack of content/substance held at ransom. Maybe that's too drastic to say—'ransom'—but I don't care right now (just trying to address a few issues in as few words as possible).
It's true this is a trend in gaming. I see it said here over and over (as well as other places), but I personally don't feel that makes it right—not that it matters. I don't care nor feel like jumping off a bridge just because the Jones's are doing it.
All-in-all, I feel everyone here had/has a valid point when it comes to subjective matter (be it for or against). You like the game: great. You don't like the game: not so great.
But I can't help but feel many of the arguments regarding the decisions made are nothing more nor less than defensive arguments. This is not good. As long as standards remain low, they will continue to lower. Simply said: That's not good.
This is a great post. I read it a few times and see nothing wrong with it. I feel your arguments are valid. What I don't understand is why people who are happy with the game would feel that improving the game and/or building upon it like you more or less suggested is a bad thing. I don't understand why the effort put into what you mentioned is met with opposition—especially when I consider what's been done in the past.
I understand people like this game the way it is. I just don't understand why they wouldn't have liked it better had it been improved upon. I am truly baffled regardless of how many times I read the reasons.
Even if they added and built upon what was already there, they still could have added several more options and gameplay with SPs, GPs, and EPs. When it comes to life, the options are endless. They are only limited by one's imagination. Yet, it appears all anyone wants to do is put an end to that imagination.
It's no wonder no other company wants to take on this beast. It's also no wonder EA appears to be losing interest in it (my take on it). From what I've gathered, this game is simply far too complex and demanding for anyone to want to take on, especially when they want to cut corners while pushing up the profit margins.
Perhaps you shouldn't be asking questions like "Why isn't there X ?" or "Is it unreasonable to expect X ?" on a forum if you don't want people anwsering them.
You can think the game is missing this or that, I don't care. But if you're aren't respecting the fact that others may not miss this or that, then I'm going to care. And if you're trying to "prove" that the game is missing, I'm going to challenge your arguments. Like no, Maxis is probably not telling us anything by releasing free patches when that's a common practice in the video game industry. No, making bars probably wasn't that easy. No, playing a lot of video game doesn't make one "clearly see that The Sims 4 has not had much money or time spent developing it". No, EA isn't giving free things out of goodness either and yes, these free patches have a budget too.
@kremesch73
I think the problem is that the improvement discussions are too often based on the premise that the game is lacking/missing something/the standard is low. A premise that isn't shared by everybody. And these improvement discussions are too often missing the fact that what is an improvement is a subjective matter too.
I've enjoyed playing TS4 on released day, before any patch or DLC, and I'm still enjoying it now with a bunch of patches/DLCs under its belt. I don't think I'm accepting a lower standard here, I'm just lucky the set of features they have chosen for this iteration is suiting me. When people are saying something else should have been in the base game, they are basically changing this set of features. This may or may not be an improvement for me.
I don't think including a basic weather, instead of whatever they would have removed, would have truly been an improvement for me because I want more than just basic weather. I want a lot of weather, I want customizations, I want seasons, I want interactions with the weather, I want a full EP because Seasons/Weather is something I really like and I want Maxis to expand them a lot, not just include the basic. I don't want just a rain FX.
$$$$
they know people will shell out cash for a weather expansion so they leave it out
Boy...you don't bother reading or comprehending anything anyone posts if you don't like it. Everyone has said basic weather that can be expanded on in a future EP. Heck, they might even bring something new to it since they'd have more time freed up.
You may have liked the game as is, but that doesn't make it an improvement. An improvement is indicative of an advancement of features. Nothing in this game improved from previous games. You believe what you want, but that doesn't make you right...because these are facts. This is not subjective like you seem to think. Code to code, TS2 and TS3, heck, even TS1 runs circles around TS4. Those games were simulations, had good character design and AI, emotions that actually worked logically, worlds that could be manipulated, terrain tools to help build outside the box, open ended gameplay, and much much more. TS4 dumps all data from background characters and just for good measure deletes them, too. And let's not forget that now it also deletes relationships, even among your played sims. While everything that was happening in previous games was saved and stored to advance the neighborhood, TS4 creates illusions so you think it looks lively and then deletes the data. This game says generate 1 angry sims, 3 joggers, etc. That angry sims isn't angry for a reason. The game just generated a random angry sim. In the previous games, that sims would have been angry because someone provoked him or something actually happened to him. That's the difference. And that is a degradation in technology.
TS2 has a sims limit if 30K. That's a 10 year old game used by 15 year old computers. You think that by now we'd actually get something that makes use of the processors we have now. But no. The last time I checked, TS4's sim limit was 180. TS2's original sim limit was 1K from the start, they upped it when they realized how many sims and babies players were having.
I said I didn't want weather that is just FX. That does not interest me, whether in a base game or not. That's just my opinion on the matter. What's so hard to accept about it ? I just don't want FX weather in the base game, even if it's expanded later, because basic FX weather doesn't interest me. Just like a toddler stuck in a playpen would not have interested me either, no matter if they expand them later. And I already explained why I doubt it would have freed up time, doing something twice does not create free time.
TS4 is more in-depth in some area (multitasking, moodlets/emotions system, more body shapes, some new Build mode functionalities like moving rooms, search function in Buy mode), which may or may not be an improvement for you, but certainly is for me. The fact that you can cherry-pick some features that were more in-depth or that you personally prefer in other iterations doesn't prove anything (but good character design ? logical emotions ? that's hardly "objective") nor does it completely negate the rest of the features. "TS4 is an improvement" does not equal "everything that existed in previous iterations has been improved in TS4". But anyway I didn't even talk about TS4 being an improvement for me in the post you quoted so I don't understand why you're talking about it.
There's no 180 limit in TS4 by the way, there's no hard cap on the number of played Sims that we know of. (And the limit before NPC culling is 210 since GT)
If I could @Mstybl95,I want to borrow some thing out of your post.
I like CAS, I think it is an improvement over what we had before. I like the push/pull method. I find it easier to make diverse sims using it vs bars hidden in folders. It is fast, fluid and click, click, click done.
I have said it before, will say it again. I love how the child stage is done for the Sims4. For the first time I actually enjoy the child stage. It is my favorite stage to play. I let me kids be kids and not just skilling beasts getting ready for later in life. I like the look, right down to the mis-matched socks. I like a lot of the animations, the monkey bars.
I love the cooking skill. Its gourmet section, the separate baking section. The different foods cooked on the grill vs the oven. I like how they expanded the cooking in the game.
Are any of those perfect, no. Could they be improved, yes. Do I still think they are an improvement from the previous games ... yes. Do you, maybe not. But that is the point ... they are both opinions. Neither is right, neither is wrong. But to say nothing at all has been improved ... everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
@Gruffman I very like what you said, and I think you are optimistic... but unfortunately is a fact that The sims 4 is a regression game instead of an evolution. The only things improved are the CAS and only Some aspect of the Build mode. Because there isn't still a terrain/pond tool and the new wall system doesn't seems creative-friendly. I mean if I want to build a fake garage while I have a house with the basement, well. I can't just do it right because of this restriction in the game... where all the walls need to have a basement under them. And babies carried to the cribs a la TS1...These things doesn't happen in TS2 & TS3. What amusing me is the fact that the patches seems to add things that should be in the base game since September 2, 2014. I really hope that something will change, but I highly doubt if the continue in this way. My fear is that the game engine is so restricted and limited... so this game have not all this potential that everyone says. The real problem is tied to the origins... Olympus. Back in 2013 there was Simcity's fiasco, so it was obvious for them to remove the "All time online game". But having done this they had to do things from the scratch. Only time will tell if they can save this game from all this total mess
The company Riot and Blizzard talks to their fans and tells the community what they are planning on doing, and then look on the feedback from the players and then decide what to do from there. While the Simguru's have stated they are listening/reading our post, the only one I see trying to talk to us is SimGuruDrake and she isn't saying that much (mostly due to the "can't talk about content" thing) if they'll just open up and talk, people might get less frustrated and more understanding, of course there will always be people who will complain, argue, etc, but most of us just wish to talk to them, help them in making Sims 4 a better game.
We get an official announcement about GP/SP/EP like a few weeks before they release, while WoW's Legion EP has been announced almost a year before its due to release and in that time, they have talked about what they are doing and adding, while keeping the major content reveals to themselves. Why not do that here? Are they afraid of angry fans? Afraid we won't like what they are making? They have already stated they can announce paid content whenever they want. But with free content they need to release that within the same quarter as announced. Since they won't say a thing, I get the bad feeling that the free content is needed in order to make the SP/GP/EP function as they are tied together, and therefore can't say anything till its in the same quarter, but that gives them 3 months to announce stuff in and we first get the announcement a few weeks before.
Bottom line is, I just wish they would open up and talk to us =/
Ideas on how to improve babies.
I was referring to just the base game, as they were having a discussion about how in-depth bars (either the object or the venue) were. The object bars themselves definitely got much more than they did in TS3, and that's one thing I'm glad they actually decided to work on rather than giving one generic drink.
I didn't mean these features add more depth to the games, I meant that each one of these features were more in-depth.