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Why didn't the base game come with weather...among other things?

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  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    edited May 2016
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    kremesch73 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »

    The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.

    Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?

    There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)

    Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.

    Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    @Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?

    I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.

    Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.

    More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.

    Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.

    On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.

    When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.

    Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.

    It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.

    Yeah...and watch my sims be the only ones to ever use any of it. Sounds so fun and lively!

    You can mod it !

    And the people who don't use mods and have always been able to change the venues in the past? One of the biggest complaints when the game first came out was the venue restrictions.

    The difference here is that I don't just think of myself and making it fun for me. I think about the playerbase and all of the simmers I have met over the years who love different features than me.

    They can post their feedback ? But I would suggest to do so in a dedicated topic to have more visilibity than in this one. I have no problem if others want the venues to work differently, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the difference here. Or are you suggesting you're representing a lot of simmers and your voice has more weight ? I think it's better if we are all just talking for ourselves personally, because that's the only person we are legitimate to talk about unless proven otherwise.
  • meeounmeeoun Posts: 2,173 Member
    @Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?

    I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.

    Yeah...I agree. Given how much was taken out, to not even have bars would've really sucked.
    Thanks Guys. So happy I traded....for bars and rocket ships. :|

    The ideal balance? I don't know if that exist either, but here's a start: by at least including features that were in the past base game iterations.
  • Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,883 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    kremesch73 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »

    The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.

    Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?

    There is some added complexity with multitasking, that's for sure. You can take a look into the Simulation Tech Talk for more details on how multitasking work, there's quite a lot of talk about it on page 4 in particular (http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/782859/simulation-tech-talk/p4)

    Every game has had multitasking - it was just what features made the most sense and got put into the game. In TS2, the sims could lounge on the couch and watch TV. They can't do that in TS3 or TS4. In TS2 and TS3 they could talk while fishing. They couldn't do that in TS4. I agree that TS4 is an IMPROVEMENT, but it isn't a new feature. I would have absolutely expected the upgrade anyway.

    Not to the same extent as in TS4. It's fine if the difference isn't making the game more enjoyable for you, but it's a bit odd that you're saying there isn't any difference in the first place, which is inaccurate.
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    @Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?

    I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.

    Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.

    More than you imagine most likely, the bar in particular wasn't trivial, there's quite a lot of special code to handle it.

    Please point out to me where I said there isn't any difference? This is why I never like talking to you...you place words where there are none.

    On on the point of the clubs...or any venue in this game. It's all object based. You need these certain objects on the lot in order for it to function. And if you dare put something on the lot that isn't in the object script - sims will completely ignore it and never use it. Go ahead, put easels or horseshoes at the park and watch how all the sims flock to them...you'll be waiting forever. The other games didn't have such restrictions. The sims went to places and they used what was there. If I put a gambling table at the library, they'd have fun with it.

    When I said the "bar", I talked about the "bar" object which have some special code to handle the proper positionning, multitasking and socializing of Sims.

    Yeah, I know. But totally unnecessary. It made the venues limited and restrictive in every sense of the word. The way the other games did it was better for players because they could make those venues the way they wanted. Perhaps people who only played with the EA made stuff were short changed, but if you ever dared to want something that didn't belong, you could make it happen.

    It allows for behavior better tailored for the venues. But if you don't only play with EA made stuff, you can change all that anyway.

    Yeah...and watch my sims be the only ones to ever use any of it. Sounds so fun and lively!

    You can mod it !

    And the people who don't use mods and have always been able to change the venues in the past? One of the biggest complaints when the game first came out was the venue restrictions.

    The difference here is that I don't just think of myself and making it fun for me. I think about the playerbase and all of the simmers I have met over the years who love different features than me.

    They can post their feedback ? But I would suggest to do so in a dedicated topic to have more visilibity than in this one. I have no problem if others want the venues to work differently, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the difference here. Or are you suggesting you're representing a lot of simmers and your voice has more weight ? I think it's better if we are all just talking for ourselves personally, because that's the only person we are legitimate to talk about unless proven otherwise.

    There you go again...putting words in where there are none.

    What I said was - I DON'T JUST THINK OF MY PLAYSTYLE.

    Perhaps that's a privilege of having run a fansite. You get to know your audience and what they want, too. The difference for me is very simple. Let's make a game that would appeal to all of us. Then instead of me waiting and waiting for basic features and NEEDING to purchase additional content for it to be fun, I will WILLINGLY purchase the additions to enhance the game because it is already fun and will get better.

    For me, TS2 is such a great game that if they added more for it today, I'd throw my money at them. TS3 was similar. It had lots of problems, but it was fun and I bought near everything including the store. Enhancements. I haven't bought anything myself beyond the base game for TS4 and have told others to stop gifting them to me. The way I feel is that they are expecting me to purchase bits and pieces of a half-plummed game so that it will never be complete. None of the systems that I would take advantage of work properly -retail and groups. I'm not saying I have given up completely, but I certainly wont be blind and buy everything. This is why I still think that the focus should be sims and their neighborhood. Bars are in neighboods, too, but I still think that can be left as an enhancement - the main street pack.
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,114 Member
    Because Maxis and EA knows a dedicated pack will bring in additional money. TS2 was originally planned to have rain & thunder/lighting, but that ultimately wasn't finished in time for launch.

    TS2 was a follow up to a successful game where the developers really asked what they could include to improve upon the original experience. Pretty much after that the question changed from "what will improve the game?" To "what will make us more money?" This is incredibly obvious in Sims 4 where we're missing base game stuff in addition to the fancy extras.

    We should never expect seasons in the base game. Not because it's impossible, because it's not. Simply because they have other ideas of what belongs in a base game (rightly so with seasons), and as we have seen those ideas are heavily misguided already. If they did give us weather at the base level, I can only imagine what other stuff we wouldn't get because that's how it works now. We can no longer expect a quality product, we get the product of excessive trade offs. What's easier to accomplish is what we get, and that just leads to watered down gameplay.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited May 2016
    @Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?

    I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.
    I'm not sure if those 'groups' are as defined as sometimes is claimed. Am I a builder in the game? Oh yes I am, can spend hours and hours turning into days to build a house for my sims. Am I into modelling sims? Well yeah, their appearances are extremely important to me. Am I a family player? I should think so, with 20 generations in the pocket. Am I anything but a family player? Yes, that too, there's so much in Sims 3 that has got absolutely nothing to do with families that I enjoy, that I can play for months with just one sim without getting bored (and it's the very reason it's not more than 20 generations thus far). I don't need them to cater to my 'playing style' because honestly, I have no idea what it is. I simply want them to give me a game that's fun to play in many ways, which means options and possibilities. For me Sims 4 lacks in all playing styles. Family play? Nah (not going into that, people have explained that a million times better than I ever could). Building? Without CASt? Yeah, no. Great non family play? Checklists.
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    @Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?

    I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.

    Because this is a life simulation game...I don't know...we need the basics first? And really how hard was it to code that nightclub? You need a radio, a bar, and some stools. Those are really easy things...we needed more substance in the character design and AI. All I am saying is the meat and potatoes are in what you can do with the game. Not everyone plays this game like dolls and dress up. Some of us actually play a game. When they focus on what makes everyday life great (like they did with the first 3 best-selling games), they can easily expand upon it in the future.

    How is going out with your partner or friends not part of the basics of life? To me, it's way more basic than a backyard swimming pool. I was really excited not to have to wait to buy an expansion for my Sims to get to enjoy what to me and pretty much everyone I know is a normal part of everyday life. Going out at the end of a workday or on the weekend makes everyday life great.

    How hard was it to code? I dunno, but venue behavior is a lot more than a set of furniture.

    As for whether it plays like a game not a dollhouse, that's subjective, not measurable or even predictable. For me, personally, the Sims in this game feel more "real" than in the previous version. I'm actually playing a game; in Sims 3, I was playing watch-the-AI-do-its-own-thing-without-me. The experience of any one game is going to vary from person to person. This one feels like Sims to me; the previous one felt like I was playing a domestic version of Civilization.
    The thing is, it's a game. Not life. When I talk to people, I'm enjoying that because of the content of what we're talking about, not because our mouths are moving and our bodies are making gestures. That just accompanies the content of our conversation, it's a side effect, not a goal. Talking sims have contentless conversations, it's all mouth moving and gestures. And we need things for them to experience to give them something to talk about in our heads.

    My experience concerning Sims 3 and 4 is quite opposite to yours by the way. In Sims 3 I'm instructing my sims all the time, making them do things. The AI hardly gets the chance to do anything (and when it does it adds something to my own plans, which is often great and leads me in new directions). In Sims 4 the game seems to decide what will happen. Which basically comes down to them chatting making mouth movements and gestures. And as for the AI? It's staring at me with empty eyes, handing me absolutely nothing.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • drake_mccartydrake_mccarty Posts: 6,114 Member
    @Mstybl95 There are people who live where everyone has a pool. There are people who have a really hard time playing adult life without bars and other nightlife. Same difference. Why should the pool people matter more than the bar people?

    I think they tried, in the basegame, to hit a balance of different ways of playing the game, not cater to only one group: stuff for the everyday-life players, stuff for the let's-go-wild players. Did they hit an ideal balance? There probably isn't one; obviously, from the toddler fracas, they missed - pools might have been less of an issue if there'd been toddlers. On the other hand, if there'd been no crazy stuff, only everyday stuff, you'd have been hearing complaints from a different group of just-as-real-Simmers. And if there'd still been no basegame nightlife, you'd have been hearing complaints from people who could find even less to take their Sims out for than we'd already heard and who thought it was about time that there be some nightlife in the basegame. There are lot of different priorities among Simmers, and they all matter.

    The comparison here is literally not even a good one. On one hand you have pools which require a ton of work and new animations (that aren't in the game already), on top of the build work that would need to be done. Then you have "'nightlife" which consists of sims sitting on couches (basic interaction), drinking drinks (once again, basic interaction along with eating), and socializing (basic interaction). This "nightlife" that you speak of isn't even nightlife as we've been given before. What exactly did they include with these bars that other base games didn't have? A few venues? Because what I listed above (which is what your "nightlife" consists of) has been in EVERY sims game since TS2.

    I do not for a minute believe they tried to cover as much as they could. They covered what would fit in a game where you hangout and socialize, (i.e. Bars, lounges, nightclubs that all do the same exact thing). They did an extremely poor job covering the basics, and now they're doing an incredibly poor job adding new stuff.

    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,617 Member
    edited May 2016
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    In any case, my point is that there were things in the Sims 4 basegame that both hadn't been in before and are valued by players, even if those players don't include you, personally. I thought it was a welcome recognition that Sims is a game that's about a lot more than staying home raising another generation of children - just like life is. And I liked that I didn't have to wait for a $40 EP a year or two in to get that recognition.
    EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
  • HIFreeBirdIHHIFreeBirdIH Posts: 1,410 Member
    Well, I'm just glad that they had an actual mixology skill added into the game rather than just adding bars with a random drink. I'm glad that there are different venues that are actually somewhat appropriate to go with a date, as there would only be two or three open venues where I can actually interact with them and it makes some sense, the museum, a park, or the beach, and then just clicking on buildings and waiting for the bar at the top of the screen to finish.
    Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
    xyIcMqt.png
  • blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited May 2016
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.
  • HIFreeBirdIHHIFreeBirdIH Posts: 1,410 Member
    Wait. Which bars are we talking about? The object; the venue; both!?
    Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
    xyIcMqt.png
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,617 Member
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.

    I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.
    EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,617 Member
    As for what do Sims do at bars? Drink and talk with both people they know and strangers who become no longer strangers, just like real people often choose to do at a place that isn't their own home. It's not always about venue-unique activities.
    EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
  • blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited May 2016
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.

    I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.

    I don't get how you can be happy you got basic bars in the base game so that you did not have to wait months or maybe years for them, and received 15 months later enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
    ebuchala wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @Mstybl95
    Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".

    I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.

    This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.

    I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.

    I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.

    Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?

    My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    Wait. Which bars are we talking about? The object; the venue; both!?
    I think it must be an off day for me because first thing I thought when bars were mentioned were Sims being in jail bars. XD
    20150409-review-gtw-62.jpg?itok=6UOPxS1N
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 37,617 Member
    edited May 2016
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.

    I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.

    I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
    ebuchala wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @Mstybl95
    Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".

    I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.

    This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.

    I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.

    I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.

    Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?

    My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.

    The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.

    Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.

    Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone. :/
    EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
  • marcel21marcel21 Posts: 12,341 Member
    MasonGamer wrote: »
    It's is a basic element, I think basic weather should have be added, like rain, clouds, moon phases, and temperature, should be patched in.
    Seasons will still be a pack but at least basic weather should be added.
    It'll likely be in an EP much like Seasons. I agree, the base game is pretty bare as is, and having weather in it would have been wonderful and immersive.

    As much as I loved seasons. I would of loved a whole list of other things instead in the sims 4 basegame myself.

    The games too bare and would like seasons done properly in it's own pack like TS2/TS3

    I even see people talking about them breaking seasons up and selling them in game packs in other threads that's even worse to me.

    No please:( they did well having it in it's own pack.


    Origin ID MichaelUKingdon


  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    I'm not sure if I or someone else mentioned it before, but when seasons do come, I hope it is expanded upon with natural disasters.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • BabySquareBabySquare Posts: 7,869 Member
    I bet thunder and lightning in sims 4 would feel very much like a real storm; powerful and dangerous, yet somehow exciting.
    Gallery ID: babysquare
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited May 2016
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.

    I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.

    I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
    ebuchala wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @Mstybl95
    Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".

    I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.

    This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.

    I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.

    I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.

    Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?

    My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.

    The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.

    Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.

    Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone. :/

    The point I'm making is that the game should have had basic weather in addition to bars and lots of other features. I believe the only reason we got bars in the base game was because it was cheap and fast for them to do. I don't believe it had anything to do with giving players a feature they love. I know you like the game and I am happy you enjoy it, but others like myself can't enjoy the game because to us, we think things are missing.

    Is it so unreasonable to expect the fourth iteration of The Sims to come with all standard life stages?

    Is it unreasonable to expect the sims to have A.I. that makes them unique and appropriately responsive to their environment and other sims?

    On that point you can argue it is subjective, but the Gurus themselves pretty much admitted the reactions in game for the first 12 months were broken because they overhauled it in a patch and posted they were watching forum threads on that issue. If it wasn't broke they wouldn't have fixed it.

    Is it so unreasonable to expect a 2014 AAA game that is a life simulator to have basic weather when pretty much every modern game has it as standard, even 3DS games?

    Where are the firemen, social workers, burglars etc.?

    You might think the base game was value for money, but many of us don't. We need more to enjoy the game and the predecessor base games had more content than The Sims 4.

    Anyone who plays lots of video games can clearly see that The Sims 4 has not had much money or time spent developing it. It is the fourth iteration of the series yet it brought nothing new. It has the exact same gameplay of the predecessors. Where is the progress? Where is the use of modern technology? We should have progressive ageing by now. The Sims 4 could have been released in 2009. 5 years since The Sims 3 was released and no innovation and no progress, just regression.

    How are the tiny worlds and their static map acceptable? They look like something off a tablet game. The Sims 3 had a 3D map. I hate how I only have a few tiny options of where my sim lives. I hate there is no customisation options such as the colour wheel or create-a-style.

    Why didn't the base game come with weather?

    Why didn't the base game come with toddlers?

    Why didn't the base game come with actual sim reactions?

    Why didn't the base game come with pools?

    Why didn't the base game come with a family tree?

    Question upon question upon question can be asked about why certain things people think thought should have been in the base game were not.

    Why do we get free content in patches? Because the base game was released unfinished. That is the only reason and people can argue and argue that this is not the case, but it is. Those people like to explain to complainers the realities of business explain to us that every feature in the base game is budgeted. If they had added additional features we would have been charged more.

    Rightly, so; companies do not give things away for free.

    Yet, many of you seem to accept that these 'free' monthly patches that add content are actually given free out of the goodness of EA's ever so generous corporate heart ...

    They didn't add x feature to the base game because of the budget, but they can give us free content updates pretty much every month ...?

    It is illogical.

    The patches are finishing off the incomplete base game and besides bug fixes, that is the only reason we receive them. The game was released unfinished because EA needed a revenue boost and they knew they could get away with releasing the game in such a shoddy state because sims players are very dedicated to the franchise.

    All of the features we expected a AAA 2014 base game to have could have been there and at a normal game price.
    Because they want to make the Sims Freeplay more appealing so the market will switch over to mobile only games like with SimCity is my guess. Cheaper for the company to make mobile games. There is still a PC market, so I hope this isn't the intent. The Sims Freeplay does get bragged about a lot more with the EA quarterlies it seems.

    These Sprites are cute:
    CA1RVkS.png
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    edited May 2016
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.

    I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.

    I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
    ebuchala wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @Mstybl95
    Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".

    I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.

    This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.

    I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.

    I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.

    Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?

    My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.

    The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.

    Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.

    Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone. :/

    The point I'm making is that the game should have had basic weather in addition to bars and lots of other features. I believe the only reason we got bars in the base game was because it was cheap and fast for them to do. I don't believe it had anything to do with giving players a feature they love. I know you like the game and I am happy you enjoy it, but others like myself can't enjoy the game because to us, we think things are missing.

    (...)

    Then tell Maxis what you want. Why do you care what others want or don't want ?
  • blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    edited May 2016
    Neia wrote: »
    Feel free to disagree, but at the end of the day The Sims 4 didn't integrate "nightlife" any better than TS3 if you created an identical bar.

    Disagreeing wholeheartedly. The existence of couches and drinking and conversation is nothing like having a venue with NPCs, Sims you don't already know, etc. If you can't even see the difference between staying home and going out to a club where you don't know who else will show up, I give up.

    Really? What do sims do at bars? They drink, which they already do in the game. They sit on chairs, which they already do in game. They dance to music, which they already do in game. They socialise, which they already do in game. Random sims turn up to the bar, which they already do in game.

    The point @drake_mccarty is making is that it took very little time and work for them to add bars to the game because pretty much all of the interactions and behaviours a sim does in a bar are already in the base game. They did not have to create lots of new animations. All the developers had to do was create the venue, the physical bar, and npc barperson.

    Compared to content like pools, where they had to be incorporated into the build mode so that we can customise and create our own; where they had to create new animations and interactions specifically just for pools; it takes more time to create this content. Bars are 95% re-purposed content and that is probably why we got them in the base game: it was cheap to do.

    I specifically said I didn't know how much more development it took than object creation. See my first post on the bar thing. Doesn't make me any less delighted to have had multiple venue types my Sims could go to that aren't family-oriented, so they can get out of the house for grown-up purposes. I also liked the basegame coding that leaned the non-active Sims in the different venue types to emphasize different age groups. Thus was, for me, a great example of not actually needing a whole EP worth of development to get some non-rabbit hole gameplay. I'd have liked a dart board or pool table for the bars in the base game, but that would likely have ended up being st the expense of some other major item because of the amount of animation involved. For me personally the venues added a lot to my right-out-of-the-box storytelling without needing to be expensively produced, and the GT enhancements 15 months later of nightclubs and bars - the animation-heavy enhancements - are a nice-to-have on top of it. But it was great not to have to wait 15 months for the venues. Obviously if you don't value the venues you won't care. But many of us do.

    I don't get how you can be happy you got bars in the base game which are incredibly basic because did not have to wait for them, and were happy that 15 months later they received enhancements, but then had this to say about basic weather:
    ebuchala wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @Mstybl95
    Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".

    I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.

    This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.

    I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.

    I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.

    Why would you wonder if that was all you were going to get for weather? Did you wonder that was all you were going to get with the bars in the base game?

    My view is that the base game should have the basics of every thing, expect with regards to sim A.I., build mode and CAS which should be fully-developed. Expansions should expand, not add content that should have been there at launch.

    The venues aren't fx or rabbit holes, which might be why in fact I did not wonder if i was gong to get more. Those extras from the EP are, I said, nice to haves, for me, not essentials - I bought the EP for the club system and the world - I was prepared to pass on it until I learned more about those. I was satisfied with the experienced nightlife gameplay in the basegame and happy that it meant j might not end up feeling j had to buy an EP I was disinterested in the rest of just so my Sims could go out like adults at all.

    Yes, expansions should expand etc. Obviously. But there's not an agreed-on-by-all version of what should be in the game at launch. And I'm really having a hard time seeing why it's a bad thing that we got a $60 game with some nightlife. Is if only okay to want weather in the basegame, not nightlife? Is my gameplay not right somehow? I'm supposed to prefer having my Sims drink at home looking out the window at fx weather they can't experience? No thank you.

    Edit: so many typos - autocorrect isn't my friend today and I'm just on my phone. :/

    The point I'm making is that the game should have had basic weather in addition to bars and lots of other features. I believe the only reason we got bars in the base game was because it was cheap and fast for them to do. I don't believe it had anything to do with giving players a feature they love. I know you like the game and I am happy you enjoy it, but others like myself can't enjoy the game because to us, we think things are missing.

    (...)

    Then tell Maxis what you want. Why do you care what others want or don't want ?

    Myself and others have been doing that for over a year now.

    I don't care what others want or don't want, you're one of the posters on this forum who seem to have a problem with that. I get tired of people like yourself who constantly lecture others that they should be happy with the game as it is. That certain features would make the game too expensive. That they are wrong for thinking the base game is incomplete when Maxis themselves are basically telling us all they know it is because they are adding content to it constantly at no extra cost to the owner.
    Post edited by blueturtleotter on
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 20,665 Member
    edited May 2016

    Myself and others have been doing that for over a year now.
    Yep pretty much get this as a response. It is like talking to a wall most of the time.
    full_07242014-lala.gif

    At least the Sims 4 is finally starting to break out of the silent treatment. It got so bad at one time it felt like when I'm trying to talk to my nephew sometimes when he doesn't bother to listen.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    foussi wrote: »
    Rain got culled

    LOL!
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
  • blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    Scobre wrote: »

    Myself and others have been doing that for over a year now.
    Yep pretty much get this as a response. It is like talking to a wall most of the time.
    full_07242014-lala.gif

    At least the Sims 4 is finally starting to break out of the silent treatment. It got so bad at one time it felt like when I'm trying to talk to my nephew sometimes when he doesn't bother to listen.

    Definitely.

    I know it certainly felt that way when they announced Get Together; an expansion pack no one asked for.
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