I think there is a lot that should be base content by now. One would think that they would supply the standard basics of life as a base and then expand upon them. Their focus during development should be all life stages - and by now I thought we'd have a more fluid aging process. Life skills - like really...still the same skills and babies still learn nothing, child skills count for nothing, etc. Interactions - the way they interact should be heavily influenced by real life and then made witty and humerous with variances depending on traits and personalities. They should have desires, fears, goals, negative traits, these things should guide their lives...what they want to do, who they become, who they get along with, how ambitious they are, etc. I mean...is this a game about miniature people or what? Shouldn't they enhance their AI as tech and research improves?
As for the environment, they should focus on the main things in daily life. Neighborhoods - every neighborhood has certain things, Parks, schools, libraries. Sims need homes - the home is one of the most important parts of the game. At this point in the series life, I would have expected build mode to up the ante. Diagonal stairs, split-levels, quarter walls, round walls, windows that can be placed anywhere, modular designs, etc. Furniture...man, just walk through some furniture stores, match colors. Cars - sims have to get from point a to point b. Pets - fish, cats, dogs all parts of most people's lives. They should be base content. Routing - when people bump into one another, do we move aside and tap our feet for five minutes and bump into one another again so we can foot tap again? Do we walk through one another? Didn't think so. No, we say excuse me and keep going. They could make it funny once in a while by making the sims try to go the same way a few times and then laugh it off.
And then expansions...how easy is this - hey look guys, now the neighborhoods have a main street to connect them. Shops and restaurants all the sims in town can own and visit and introducing a new metro system. Oh, your town expanded...now we need services. Every sims in your town can also work in these careers as maids, delivery drivers, police, firefighters, librarians, plumbers, handymen, doctors, postal workers, etc. You also need a government and laws. Oh no...now that your town has grown so much, crime is becoming more commonplace. From petty thieves to organized crime, what side of the law will your sims be on? Your town has become a city and major sports organizations are looking to open stadiums in your town. Your sims now have access to athletic facilities where sims of all ages...starting at toddler...can take part in classes, workshops, and activities. You can also become a professional athlete. You also need a hospital, which creates even more jobs. Can you rise the ranks and run a successful hospital or will your patients leave worse than when they entered? Now your city has grown, its attracting tourists. Now you can build landmarks to help increase revenue to expand your city. Bonus, you can travel to other cities for visits or move completely. Now that they city has careers that require higher education, a university has opened.
And...on and on...the amount of additions they could make are literally endless.
First off, I love this post.
I agree we need more intricacy for sims. Very badly. And the environment In which our sims reside is also a big factor for this game; both in town and the natural state of the world itself. These factors should've been set in the BASE game.
Like someone else said in feedback it's very obvious CAS and even Build Mode got the cream of the crop. Though I agree on your desired additions to build mode, I can definitely see the improvements there as is, but of course anything could be better.
I am just dumbfounded why we lost so much of the basics without any wow-your-pants-off additions that we never had in the pre iterations. The Studio must know how pittly-do this game is. Especially if they're putting on their little profiles how long they played this series in all.
~~~~~~~
In my last thread:
(The Sims 4 Base Game should've had..)
I saw that someone replied along the lines of, "...You understand how hard it is to make a sims game? To put those features in at once would be too hard..."
---I'm sorry I cannot directly reply to you, for my thread was deleted.---
If there's no struggle there's no progression. I'm from a generation where the slogan of EA use to be "challenge everything". I can only imagine that making a sims game is hard. I know that a lot of people on this team probably busted their tails on what we do have. But in all honesty, what way did this sequel progress from the others? It's not even about weather at this point anymore, why so much gone?!
How is this The Sims 4 ? Maybe they should've called it something else or something.
I think one of the biggest issues with the whole game is how very one dimensional it is. The previous games were scripted to an extent, but they provided enough tools for players to replay the same scenarios with different outcomes every time. For example, In TS2 I could have two romance sims living together, but their wants were always based more on the choices I made for them. If one of them went out and woohoo'd the town, then that sims wants would reflect that. If I forced one into a monogamous relationship, then that sim would get wants to go on dates and woohoo the partner. In TS4, one of the aspirations I despise the most is mansion baron. You need 3 windows. Now 5 columns and 12 windows. Now you need 30 windows. How is that even fun? But on top of that, there is no replayability with it. I did it once and now if I do it again, it will always be the same. --Don't even get me started on the fact that the devs should know that builders are NOT thrilled with the game telling us to destroy our work to fulfill an aspiration!
There has to be replay value. That is what has kept this franchise going strong. Make the world work so that people who just play have something to do. Expand on it so they have more to do over time. But never forget the creators. They create and add more to the game and come up with characters, challenges, new worlds, houses, shops, stories, machinima, let's plays, etc. They do this with the tools provided by the game. Give us good tools and we'll create for years to come.
I paid over $80 for The Sims 4 base game. For that much, weather should have been included.( So should have toddlers, pets and at least 1 supernatural, j.s)
Over a year later and I still feel like I'm playing a base game. EA is milking this version as much as we will let them. It's sad really.
Let's talk business 101. Every expense a successful business has (materials, payroll and labor, overhead, rent, etc.), EVERY expense gets paid for by the customer in some way. Those "free" products, gifts and gimmees? Paid for by the customer somehow.
Why do people have this strange idea that by including a feature in the base game they can't charge more for it? The fact is, if it's a huge feature like the full weather experience, they would have to add to the price of the base game to cover the expense of making that feature or they would end up increasing the prices of the dlc and banking on the idea that their fans will buy the extra content. It's a pretty simple concept. One way or the other, they have to make back their expenses plus some for profit.
They could maybe manage to squeeze some of those wish list items in without a huge increase but certainly not all of them, especially something like weather.
Note: this isn't specifically directed at you so much as generally at everyone claiming EA can essentially add whatever they want to a base game without charging extra for it.
Business 101. Give your customers as little as you can get away with to maximise your profit. It's a pretty simple concept. If customers are willing to pay the same price but for less, companies will do this for as long as they can get away with it until their customers stop spending and start complaining. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Many of us believe that is what they did with The Sims 4. We do not think that the game was worth the price based on the quality and amount of content it has. The predecessors cost less, yet had more content and depth.
With regards to the OP, pretty much every modern video game has weather, even 3DS games. Stardew Valley a game developed on a tiny budget by one person even has weather. There is no excuse for 4 not having it. Weather has been a staple, ubiquitous feature of games for quite a while now.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
I paid over $80 for The Sims 4 base game. For that much, weather should have been included.( So should have toddlers, pets and at least 1 supernatural, j.s)
Over a year later and I still feel like I'm playing a base game. EA is milking this version as much as we will let them. It's sad really.
Let's talk business 101. Every expense a successful business has (materials, payroll and labor, overhead, rent, etc.), EVERY expense gets paid for by the customer in some way. Those "free" products, gifts and gimmees? Paid for by the customer somehow.
Why do people have this strange idea that by including a feature in the base game they can't charge more for it? The fact is, if it's a huge feature like the full weather experience, they would have to add to the price of the base game to cover the expense of making that feature or they would end up increasing the prices of the dlc and banking on the idea that their fans will buy the extra content. It's a pretty simple concept. One way or the other, they have to make back their expenses plus some for profit.
They could maybe manage to squeeze some of those wish list items in without a huge increase but certainly not all of them, especially something like weather.
Note: this isn't specifically directed at you so much as generally at everyone claiming EA can essentially add whatever they want to a base game without charging extra for it.
Business 101. Give your customers as little as you can get away with to maximise your profit. It's a pretty simple concept. If customers are willing to pay the same price but for less, companies will do this for as long as they can get away with it until their customers stop spending and start complaining. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Many of us believe that is what they did with The Sims 4. We do not think that the game was worth the price based on the quality and amount of content it has. The predecessors cost less, yet had more content and depth.
With regards to the OP, pretty much every modern video game has weather, even 3DS games. Stardew Valley a game developed on a tiny budget by one person even has weather. There is no excuse for 4 not having it. Weather has been a staple, ubiquitous feature of games for quite a while now.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
Having some background design in gaming myself weather as not been that difficult for sims more so in Sims 3. From, what I've noticed.
- the grass texture transitioned to another texture and a mesh appears in thicker snow. Particle effect added to Sims feet to give the feeling of walking in snow.
- the snowmen, puddles etc you mention are no different from any other interactive object in game, they have nothing to do with the weather system.
- the rain, snow etc was clever in sims 3 giving the appearance of 3D particles but was actually just an overlay on the screen which would disappear when zoomed into a sims house.
- Every object doesn't have to be redone for snow. The sims 2 & 3 for example, I believe it was programmed to add snow overlay onto every object that would be left outside, not that the algorithm had issues on some objects which was later patched. I don't believe this was used for trees entirely. Seems trees had the leaf texture removed and the snow algorithm programmed to lay on tree/branch mesh to give it that winter feel.
- depending on season said weather effect would trigger a sim animation reacting with weather, no different to a sim reacting to an oven on fire.
I'm not trying to say it's easy to do all these things and that there will be unseen problems etc along the way, but there are always ways around an issue and it's fun problem solving coming up with ingenious ways to resolve an issue, which can spark new and inventive ideas to introduce into a game.
Gawd I love Seasons, but I'm making it sound so cold and synthetic
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
I paid over $80 for The Sims 4 base game. For that much, weather should have been included.( So should have toddlers, pets and at least 1 supernatural, j.s)
Over a year later and I still feel like I'm playing a base game. EA is milking this version as much as we will let them. It's sad really.
Let's talk business 101. Every expense a successful business has (materials, payroll and labor, overhead, rent, etc.), EVERY expense gets paid for by the customer in some way. Those "free" products, gifts and gimmees? Paid for by the customer somehow.
Why do people have this strange idea that by including a feature in the base game they can't charge more for it? The fact is, if it's a huge feature like the full weather experience, they would have to add to the price of the base game to cover the expense of making that feature or they would end up increasing the prices of the dlc and banking on the idea that their fans will buy the extra content. It's a pretty simple concept. One way or the other, they have to make back their expenses plus some for profit.
They could maybe manage to squeeze some of those wish list items in without a huge increase but certainly not all of them, especially something like weather.
Note: this isn't specifically directed at you so much as generally at everyone claiming EA can essentially add whatever they want to a base game without charging extra for it.
Business 101. Give your customers as little as you can get away with to maximise your profit. It's a pretty simple concept. If customers are willing to pay the same price but for less, companies will do this for as long as they can get away with it until their customers stop spending and start complaining. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Many of us believe that is what they did with The Sims 4. We do not think that the game was worth the price based on the quality and amount of content it has. The predecessors cost less, yet had more content and depth.
With regards to the OP, pretty much every modern video game has weather, even 3DS games. Stardew Valley a game developed on a tiny budget by one person even has weather. There is no excuse for 4 not having it. Weather has been a staple, ubiquitous feature of games for quite a while now.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
Did I mention the weather of The Sims 3 seasons? I was talking about basic weather effects that pretty much every game now has. The base game should have it because it is a life simulator.
You talk about The Sims being different than other games. Yes it is. It does not allow direct player control. Animations are set. They do not have to blend or work with in-game physics like in other games. Sims cannot go anywhere on the map. They cannot jump. The game does not have to work out complicated physics in real time. Sims cannot pick up an object and throw it any direction. The environment is static.
In these areas The Sims is vastly simpler than other types of games because much of the gameplay is a simple user enters command, play animation; user enters command, play animation. The animations are the same each time and play to completion without interruption. The Sims is not like a game where you can go from walking to running, jump over a wall that is being shot to pieces by the circling enemies, then you duck and roll, hide etc. All of those animations have to blend in any combination and can be interrupted at any time. Most animations in The Sims can only happen in very limited predefined places. For instance, your sim will always be standing in the same position when they interact with an object like some of the science career ones.
No, not buying your argument that The Sims is any more complicated than other games. In some areas it is much simpler.
I paid over $80 for The Sims 4 base game. For that much, weather should have been included.( So should have toddlers, pets and at least 1 supernatural, j.s)
Over a year later and I still feel like I'm playing a base game. EA is milking this version as much as we will let them. It's sad really.
Let's talk business 101. Every expense a successful business has (materials, payroll and labor, overhead, rent, etc.), EVERY expense gets paid for by the customer in some way. Those "free" products, gifts and gimmees? Paid for by the customer somehow.
Why do people have this strange idea that by including a feature in the base game they can't charge more for it? The fact is, if it's a huge feature like the full weather experience, they would have to add to the price of the base game to cover the expense of making that feature or they would end up increasing the prices of the dlc and banking on the idea that their fans will buy the extra content. It's a pretty simple concept. One way or the other, they have to make back their expenses plus some for profit.
They could maybe manage to squeeze some of those wish list items in without a huge increase but certainly not all of them, especially something like weather.
Note: this isn't specifically directed at you so much as generally at everyone claiming EA can essentially add whatever they want to a base game without charging extra for it.
Business 101. Give your customers as little as you can get away with to maximise your profit. It's a pretty simple concept. If customers are willing to pay the same price but for less, companies will do this for as long as they can get away with it until their customers stop spending and start complaining. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Many of us believe that is what they did with The Sims 4. We do not think that the game was worth the price based on the quality and amount of content it has. The predecessors cost less, yet had more content and depth.
With regards to the OP, pretty much every modern video game has weather, even 3DS games. Stardew Valley a game developed on a tiny budget by one person even has weather. There is no excuse for 4 not having it. Weather has been a staple, ubiquitous feature of games for quite a while now.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
Did I mention the weather of The Sims 3 seasons? I was talking about basic weather effects that pretty much every game now has. The base game should have it because it is a life simulator.
You talk about The Sims being different than other games. Yes it is. It does not allow direct player control. Animations are set. They do not have to blend or work with in-game physics like in other games. Sims cannot go anywhere on the map. They cannot jump. The game does not have to work out complicated physics in real time. Sims cannot pick up an object and throw it any direction. The environment is static.
In these areas The Sims is vastly simpler than other types of games because much of the gameplay is a simple user enters command, play animation; user enters command, play animation. The animations are the same each time and play to completion without interruption. The Sims is not like a game where you can go from walking to running, jump over a wall that is being shot to pieces by the circling enemies, then you duck and roll, hide etc. All of those animations have to blend in any combination and can be interrupted at any time. Most animations in The Sims can only happen in very limited predefined places. For instance, your sim will always be standing in the same position when they interact with an object like some of the science career ones.
No, not buying your argument that The Sims is any more complicated than other games. In some areas it is much simpler.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
I paid over $80 for The Sims 4 base game. For that much, weather should have been included.( So should have toddlers, pets and at least 1 supernatural, j.s)
Over a year later and I still feel like I'm playing a base game. EA is milking this version as much as we will let them. It's sad really.
Let's talk business 101. Every expense a successful business has (materials, payroll and labor, overhead, rent, etc.), EVERY expense gets paid for by the customer in some way. Those "free" products, gifts and gimmees? Paid for by the customer somehow.
Why do people have this strange idea that by including a feature in the base game they can't charge more for it? The fact is, if it's a huge feature like the full weather experience, they would have to add to the price of the base game to cover the expense of making that feature or they would end up increasing the prices of the dlc and banking on the idea that their fans will buy the extra content. It's a pretty simple concept. One way or the other, they have to make back their expenses plus some for profit.
They could maybe manage to squeeze some of those wish list items in without a huge increase but certainly not all of them, especially something like weather.
Note: this isn't specifically directed at you so much as generally at everyone claiming EA can essentially add whatever they want to a base game without charging extra for it.
Business 101. Give your customers as little as you can get away with to maximise your profit. It's a pretty simple concept. If customers are willing to pay the same price but for less, companies will do this for as long as they can get away with it until their customers stop spending and start complaining. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Many of us believe that is what they did with The Sims 4. We do not think that the game was worth the price based on the quality and amount of content it has. The predecessors cost less, yet had more content and depth.
With regards to the OP, pretty much every modern video game has weather, even 3DS games. Stardew Valley a game developed on a tiny budget by one person even has weather. There is no excuse for 4 not having it. Weather has been a staple, ubiquitous feature of games for quite a while now.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
Did I mention the weather of The Sims 3 seasons? I was talking about basic weather effects that pretty much every game now has. The base game should have it because it is a life simulator.
You talk about The Sims being different than other games. Yes it is. It does not allow direct player control. Animations are set. They do not have to blend or work with in-game physics like in other games. Sims cannot go anywhere on the map. They cannot jump. The game does not have to work out complicated physics in real time. Sims cannot pick up an object and throw it any direction. The environment is static.
In these areas The Sims is vastly simpler than other types of games because much of the gameplay is a simple user enters command, play animation; user enters command, play animation. The animations are the same each time and play to completion without interruption. The Sims is not like a game where you can go from walking to running, jump over a wall that is being shot to pieces by the circling enemies, then you duck and roll, hide etc. All of those animations have to blend in any combination and can be interrupted at any time. Most animations in The Sims can only happen in very limited predefined places. For instance, your sim will always be standing in the same position when they interact with an object like some of the science career ones.
No, not buying your argument that The Sims is any more complicated than other games. In some areas it is much simpler.
You can think it's simpler but does every single npc in your games have it's own unique ai and the ability to do almost anything the player can do? Can your enemies crouch, duck and throw in any direction? Can Ganondorf go on his quest to save Zelda, can Ridley enter the morph ball, can Peach jump through the castle paintings and collect the power stars?
Unlike other game each sim is uniquely generated with a personality and free will. It is alot more resource demanding than most other games because of that. Sims 3 especially was very demanding due yo the open world and having to simulate them all at once.
A life simulation game is ALOT more complicated than most other games, that's why they have relatively zero competition.
I paid over $80 for The Sims 4 base game. For that much, weather should have been included.( So should have toddlers, pets and at least 1 supernatural, j.s)
Over a year later and I still feel like I'm playing a base game. EA is milking this version as much as we will let them. It's sad really.
Let's talk business 101. Every expense a successful business has (materials, payroll and labor, overhead, rent, etc.), EVERY expense gets paid for by the customer in some way. Those "free" products, gifts and gimmees? Paid for by the customer somehow.
Why do people have this strange idea that by including a feature in the base game they can't charge more for it? The fact is, if it's a huge feature like the full weather experience, they would have to add to the price of the base game to cover the expense of making that feature or they would end up increasing the prices of the dlc and banking on the idea that their fans will buy the extra content. It's a pretty simple concept. One way or the other, they have to make back their expenses plus some for profit.
They could maybe manage to squeeze some of those wish list items in without a huge increase but certainly not all of them, especially something like weather.
Note: this isn't specifically directed at you so much as generally at everyone claiming EA can essentially add whatever they want to a base game without charging extra for it.
Business 101. Give your customers as little as you can get away with to maximise your profit. It's a pretty simple concept. If customers are willing to pay the same price but for less, companies will do this for as long as they can get away with it until their customers stop spending and start complaining. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.
Many of us believe that is what they did with The Sims 4. We do not think that the game was worth the price based on the quality and amount of content it has. The predecessors cost less, yet had more content and depth.
With regards to the OP, pretty much every modern video game has weather, even 3DS games. Stardew Valley a game developed on a tiny budget by one person even has weather. There is no excuse for 4 not having it. Weather has been a staple, ubiquitous feature of games for quite a while now.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
Having some background design in gaming myself weather as not been that difficult for sims more so in Sims 3. From, what I've noticed.
- the grass texture transitioned to another texture and a mesh appears in thicker snow. Particle effect added to Sims feet to give the feeling of walking in snow.
- the snowmen, puddles etc you mention are no different from any other interactive object in game, they have nothing to do with the weather system.
- the rain, snow etc was clever in sims 3 giving the appearance of 3D particles but was actually just an overlay on the screen which would disappear when zoomed into a sims house.
- Every object doesn't have to be redone for snow. The sims 2 & 3 for example, I believe it was programmed to add snow overlay onto every object that would be left outside, not that the algorithm had issues on some objects which was later patched. I don't believe this was used for trees entirely. Seems trees had the leaf texture removed and the snow algorithm programmed to lay on tree/branch mesh to give it that winter feel.
- depending on season said weather effect would trigger a sim animation reacting with weather, no different to a sim reacting to an oven on fire.
I'm not trying to say it's easy to do all these things and that there will be unseen problems etc along the way, but there are always ways around an issue and it's fun problem solving coming up with ingenious ways to resolve an issue, which can spark new and inventive ideas to introduce into a game.
Gawd I love Seasons, but I'm making it sound so cold and synthetic
I appreciate the feedback as I'm still learning about the industry. I no doubt believe alot of this is due to money, but people still fail to realize things like seasons and pets can take years of development time. They are not as easy as people think. And perhaps I didn't gey my point across with the objects being re textured. I mean they had to design it that way.
The sims 2 in that demo had better lighting and reflections. Even the floor is reflective if you look. Wasnt there some fire at maxis and they lost a load of content?
I agree about how difficult it is to design weather in The Sims. I remember reading about how long it took to actually design seasons and how they were having difficulty with rain showing in buildings. I'm not surprised that I will need to wait for weather and I'm not too bothered about it either. We had to wait for them to come out as EPs in all of the Sims games
Toddlers on the other hand, they 100% should of been in the base game and I believe EA are regretting the discussion of not including them. I hope it won't be much longer I need to wait as I really miss them in my game.
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
That's how I also feel about apartments. But if they were to include the basic rentable apartment in the base, it would be easy to expand upon it as future content. It's when they don't include these things that the packs become limited by resources. If they lay the groundwork beforehand, they can focus on the details and make it the best it can be.
Look at TS2. It was as bare as can be in the base. We got 2 community lots, I don't even think you could do anything at the park. But the sims themselves were lively characters who displayed real emotions and desires for themselves. We were able to build our own neighborhoods and place lots anywhere. Decorate it with neighborhood objects and fx. We could use building cheats and mods to build outside of the box. We had basements and apartments and custom stairs before it was ever introduced officially. And then how mod friendly it was. Creators gave us a near endless supply of custom furniture and clothes, hair, whatever you can imagine, that game had it. So even though it was new and bare, there was enough content to keep most simmers entertained for months on end. And when they made additions...they did things like say...oh hey, you know that clothing store and grocery store you've only ever been able to shop at, well now you can also own them! All the packs were backwards compatible.
Now look at TS4. Can you own a spa? This is why during development, they have to know the end game and work towards it right from the start. Had they planned things better with TS4, I'm sure it would have been a better game. They can do it, they really just have to understand that they are building a modular game that no one plays the same way. We all like it and use it for different reasons. So making it as non restrictive as possible should be in the core design. Not, as I said in a previous post, needing 12 of something or performing the same task 5 times.
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Yeah..... Kinda like the cars.
Ha. Yeah, you win that point for sure. As someone who doesn't miss them, I can see how they're a tease to those who do. (This is how I was with all the rabbitholes in Sims 3 - constantly teased by them, not being able to go inside with my Sim.)
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
And this is where it starts getting to the personal level, and the conspiracy starts. Yay...
Probably how my last thread "The SIms 4 Base Game should've had..." got deleted.
It's not like I go into the happy play thread and spew how much I hate the game. Or point out how crummy the gameplay is or how sad their attempts to make the game appealing are.
No, I'm a big girl and I make my own threads. If you enjoy the game great. I don't. My threads are my reasonings.
OTH @SimGuruDrake
Thank you for stopping by. However, I much rather have people attack me for my views than have my views outright deleted by the folks running this place.
Hello meeoun,
Friendly reminder that I do not handle thread removal, I handle engagement with the community and making sure that threads stay on track with the OP discussion.
As to your claim that your views were "deleted by the folks running this place" you created two threads on pretty much the same topic: Things you wanted to see in the base game. I can reinstate that topic but it will be merged with this one. In the future please reach out to myself or the SimStaff in PM if you have an issue with something that was done so we can investigate
Aww I just noticed you recovered and merged my thread. Thank you.
How sweet of you!. I feel bad you're being thrown into this mess. We all know it's not you though! I'm sorry that my tone was so pugnacious.
@Mstybl95
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
That's how I also feel about apartments. But if they were to include the basic rentable apartment in the base, it would be easy to expand upon it as future content. It's when they don't include these things that the packs become limited by resources. If they lay the groundwork beforehand, they can focus on the details and make it the best it can be.
Look at TS2. It was as bare as can be in the base. We got 2 community lots, I don't even think you could do anything at the park. But the sims themselves were lively characters who displayed real emotions and desires for themselves. We were able to build our own neighborhoods and place lots anywhere. Decorate it with neighborhood objects and fx. We could use building cheats and mods to build outside of the box. We had basements and apartments and custom stairs before it was ever introduced officially. And then how mod friendly it was. Creators gave us a near endless supply of custom furniture and clothes, hair, whatever you can imagine, that game had it. So even though it was new and bare, there was enough content to keep most simmers entertained for months on end. And when they made additions...they did things like say...oh hey, you know that clothing store and grocery store you've only ever been able to shop at, well now you can also own them! All the packs were backwards compatible.
Now look at TS4. Can you own a spa? This is why during development, they have to know the end game and work towards it right from the start. Had they planned things better with TS4, I'm sure it would have been a better game. They can do it, they really just have to understand that they are building a modular game that no one plays the same way. We all like it and use it for different reasons. So making it as non restrictive as possible should be in the core design. Not, as I said in a previous post, needing 12 of something or performing the same task 5 times.
There are people that TS4 is keeping entertained for months on end too. I think they did a really good job with backwards compatibility actually. You can't own a spa, because a spa is not a retail, so that's logical. But you can sell spa things, ice creams, popcorn, etc. You can use packs interactions into the clubs. You can make a spa into Granite Falls (and I've seen some really neat ones). And TS4 is really mod friendly too.
If they lay the groundwork beforehand as you say, that just means they would have to remove something else from the base. They did that for some things : night clubs or bars for example, which were in the base game and were later expanded in GT. I'm not sure it's easier to it that way though, because you're basically redoing something that is already done and is already working, which is usually longer than doing it only once. At least, for the bars/night clubs, they added some objects, but take for example the NPCs which come in these venues, they had to do it for the base game, and redo it for GT. That's just an example, and not the biggest one, but still.
My point was for them to focus on the features that are most important to daily life. Nightclubs and bars don't fit that bill. Sure some people like them a lot, but most people? There are much more important things than that.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
My point was for them to focus on the features that are most important to daily life. Nightclubs and bars don't fit that bill. Sure some people like them a lot, but most people? There are much more important things than that.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
That's a highly subjective things though. All Sims games so far have included both things that were important for me, and things that were not.
There was a lot of disappointed customers apparently over the missing pools. Pools are not one of the most important things to daily life for me. But it was to many people apparently. And yes, as surprising as it may be, there were people in that petition who were saying "I don't care about the toddlers, but pools should be in".
I agree that if you add all the things people want, there's quite a lot of them. But I don't think they focused on a very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. They included libraries and writing, gardening and fishing, museum, rocket science, lounge for the elders, parks for the children/teens. There is quite a wide spectrum of different things to do and use to tell stories. Not everything of course, but still more than parties/bars/nightclubs.
I guess it's because...why would they include it as part of the base game when they know (from Ts2 and TS3) that customers are willing to pay money for a separate weather EP?
Sir Moneybags EA
Like everything else in this iteration I guess. Cars, Medical and Law Enforcement Career, Restaurants...Makes me sick given everything else we don't have.
*ignores the Sims 3 store which costs $7400 in total* But sure, they're totally money grabbing this time with cheaper stuff packs and no store.
And when have proper restaurants and active law enforcement and medical careers been in the base game. Oh! They haven't.
Wait, what.... that was another company!?
(I'll answer that for you: no it wasn't)
Well, it's not a charity, right? The design and development and animation costs have to be covered somehow. Most of us don't give away weeks and weeks of our labour for free.
While I fully agree with this, the basegame isn't exactly for free either.
Comments
I think one of the biggest issues with the whole game is how very one dimensional it is. The previous games were scripted to an extent, but they provided enough tools for players to replay the same scenarios with different outcomes every time. For example, In TS2 I could have two romance sims living together, but their wants were always based more on the choices I made for them. If one of them went out and woohoo'd the town, then that sims wants would reflect that. If I forced one into a monogamous relationship, then that sim would get wants to go on dates and woohoo the partner. In TS4, one of the aspirations I despise the most is mansion baron. You need 3 windows. Now 5 columns and 12 windows. Now you need 30 windows. How is that even fun? But on top of that, there is no replayability with it. I did it once and now if I do it again, it will always be the same. --Don't even get me started on the fact that the devs should know that builders are NOT thrilled with the game telling us to destroy our work to fulfill an aspiration!
There has to be replay value. That is what has kept this franchise going strong. Make the world work so that people who just play have something to do. Expand on it so they have more to do over time. But never forget the creators. They create and add more to the game and come up with characters, challenges, new worlds, houses, shops, stories, machinima, let's plays, etc. They do this with the tools provided by the game. Give us good tools and we'll create for years to come.
As someone who's going into video game designing you have a horrible misconception about weather. The sims is not like other games, you CANNOT compare it. For example Wind Waker has rain built into it, but it really doesn't effevt much.
The sims is a life simulation game. While FX weather can be easily added to most games, the sims is different. FX weather won't cut it for the sims. Each type of weather has to be programmed to interact with the sims. Rain has to be coded for puddles and other things, honestly rain would be the easiest to code but still difficult. Snow is incredibly time consuming. They not only have to re texture everything but also make it interactable with the sims, for example; Snowmen, Igloos, Snow Angels, Etc.
You CANNOT compare a Life Simulator to other games. The FACT is that weather for aims 3 started production before late night. It took that long just to make it. It's very time consuming and thus would reflect if it was added in the base game. Not only would they have to charge more to cover the expenses of their workers and work, they would also have to delay the game even more.
Having some background design in gaming myself weather as not been that difficult for sims more so in Sims 3. From, what I've noticed.
- the grass texture transitioned to another texture and a mesh appears in thicker snow. Particle effect added to Sims feet to give the feeling of walking in snow.
- the snowmen, puddles etc you mention are no different from any other interactive object in game, they have nothing to do with the weather system.
- the rain, snow etc was clever in sims 3 giving the appearance of 3D particles but was actually just an overlay on the screen which would disappear when zoomed into a sims house.
- Every object doesn't have to be redone for snow. The sims 2 & 3 for example, I believe it was programmed to add snow overlay onto every object that would be left outside, not that the algorithm had issues on some objects which was later patched. I don't believe this was used for trees entirely. Seems trees had the leaf texture removed and the snow algorithm programmed to lay on tree/branch mesh to give it that winter feel.
- depending on season said weather effect would trigger a sim animation reacting with weather, no different to a sim reacting to an oven on fire.
I'm not trying to say it's easy to do all these things and that there will be unseen problems etc along the way, but there are always ways around an issue and it's fun problem solving coming up with ingenious ways to resolve an issue, which can spark new and inventive ideas to introduce into a game.
Gawd I love Seasons, but I'm making it sound so cold and synthetic
Real life is more rich than a video game, and will always be. So the question is not "what could they put in a Sims game", because there's not a shortage on things they could add. It's more "what is the most important things, the most impactful, the most fun". And "can they do it well enough with the budget they have".
I prefer the base game to focus on the base, and I prefer them to keep the concept that could really use some more budget for EP, to do them justice. I think weather is one of those.
Did I mention the weather of The Sims 3 seasons? I was talking about basic weather effects that pretty much every game now has. The base game should have it because it is a life simulator.
You talk about The Sims being different than other games. Yes it is. It does not allow direct player control. Animations are set. They do not have to blend or work with in-game physics like in other games. Sims cannot go anywhere on the map. They cannot jump. The game does not have to work out complicated physics in real time. Sims cannot pick up an object and throw it any direction. The environment is static.
In these areas The Sims is vastly simpler than other types of games because much of the gameplay is a simple user enters command, play animation; user enters command, play animation. The animations are the same each time and play to completion without interruption. The Sims is not like a game where you can go from walking to running, jump over a wall that is being shot to pieces by the circling enemies, then you duck and roll, hide etc. All of those animations have to blend in any combination and can be interrupted at any time. Most animations in The Sims can only happen in very limited predefined places. For instance, your sim will always be standing in the same position when they interact with an object like some of the science career ones.
No, not buying your argument that The Sims is any more complicated than other games. In some areas it is much simpler.
It's all about the money, money, money.......
It's The Sims...
The animation system in TS4 is far more complex than you think. Animations can be interrupted in some cases, animations don't all have the same duration, they have to blend together, they have various constraints (positionning/line of sight/postures/hand free/multitasking), they have to be simultaneous when they involved multiple Sims, which means they have to blend with idle animations if one of these Sims is not yet ready. All this have to happen into an environment you don't know in advance because it's player built.
You can think it's simpler but does every single npc in your games have it's own unique ai and the ability to do almost anything the player can do? Can your enemies crouch, duck and throw in any direction? Can Ganondorf go on his quest to save Zelda, can Ridley enter the morph ball, can Peach jump through the castle paintings and collect the power stars?
Unlike other game each sim is uniquely generated with a personality and free will. It is alot more resource demanding than most other games because of that. Sims 3 especially was very demanding due yo the open world and having to simulate them all at once.
A life simulation game is ALOT more complicated than most other games, that's why they have relatively zero competition.
I appreciate the feedback as I'm still learning about the industry. I no doubt believe alot of this is due to money, but people still fail to realize things like seasons and pets can take years of development time. They are not as easy as people think. And perhaps I didn't gey my point across with the objects being re textured. I mean they had to design it that way.
Toddlers are a different story.
Toddlers on the other hand, they 100% should of been in the base game and I believe EA are regretting the discussion of not including them. I hope it won't be much longer I need to wait as I really miss them in my game.
This is how I feel about apartments. I want to be able to buy apartment complexes, be the landlord and the live-in super, rent them out, have to deal with broken toilets or be able to upgrade the appliances and plumbing in each unit. And be able to just be a tenant who rents an apartment and can call the manager to have my shower fixed when it breaks, etc.
I could see them maybe adding the most basic kind of apartments in the base game but not something like what I'd want.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
I have to agree with this. Basegame FX weather would feel like toying with me. And all the more so if we still had to wait years (as always) for full-on experienced seasonal change and weather ... all of those years spent wondering if this was really all we were going to get for weather this time. There's a sense in which it would be more cruel than just never giving us a weather EP. At least this way we're not being taunted.
Would you say the animations in S4 are more complex than they are in Sims 2 and/or 3?
Yeah..... Kinda like the cars.
That's how I also feel about apartments. But if they were to include the basic rentable apartment in the base, it would be easy to expand upon it as future content. It's when they don't include these things that the packs become limited by resources. If they lay the groundwork beforehand, they can focus on the details and make it the best it can be.
Look at TS2. It was as bare as can be in the base. We got 2 community lots, I don't even think you could do anything at the park. But the sims themselves were lively characters who displayed real emotions and desires for themselves. We were able to build our own neighborhoods and place lots anywhere. Decorate it with neighborhood objects and fx. We could use building cheats and mods to build outside of the box. We had basements and apartments and custom stairs before it was ever introduced officially. And then how mod friendly it was. Creators gave us a near endless supply of custom furniture and clothes, hair, whatever you can imagine, that game had it. So even though it was new and bare, there was enough content to keep most simmers entertained for months on end. And when they made additions...they did things like say...oh hey, you know that clothing store and grocery store you've only ever been able to shop at, well now you can also own them! All the packs were backwards compatible.
Now look at TS4. Can you own a spa? This is why during development, they have to know the end game and work towards it right from the start. Had they planned things better with TS4, I'm sure it would have been a better game. They can do it, they really just have to understand that they are building a modular game that no one plays the same way. We all like it and use it for different reasons. So making it as non restrictive as possible should be in the core design. Not, as I said in a previous post, needing 12 of something or performing the same task 5 times.
Ha. Yeah, you win that point for sure. As someone who doesn't miss them, I can see how they're a tease to those who do. (This is how I was with all the rabbitholes in Sims 3 - constantly teased by them, not being able to go inside with my Sim.)
Aww I just noticed you recovered and merged my thread. Thank you.
How sweet of you!. I feel bad you're being thrown into this mess. We all know it's not you though! I'm sorry that my tone was so pugnacious.
There are people that TS4 is keeping entertained for months on end too. I think they did a really good job with backwards compatibility actually. You can't own a spa, because a spa is not a retail, so that's logical. But you can sell spa things, ice creams, popcorn, etc. You can use packs interactions into the clubs. You can make a spa into Granite Falls (and I've seen some really neat ones). And TS4 is really mod friendly too.
If they lay the groundwork beforehand as you say, that just means they would have to remove something else from the base. They did that for some things : night clubs or bars for example, which were in the base game and were later expanded in GT. I'm not sure it's easier to it that way though, because you're basically redoing something that is already done and is already working, which is usually longer than doing it only once. At least, for the bars/night clubs, they added some objects, but take for example the NPCs which come in these venues, they had to do it for the base game, and redo it for GT. That's just an example, and not the biggest one, but still.
One of the reasons TS4 got the huge backlash it did was because they nixed so many features. And its not that all the features are important, but that there was probably a feature that was important to someone. For me it was toddlers and proper simulations. For someone else it was cars. For someone else it was CASt. And someone else open world. And together all those things add up to a bigger group of dissatisfied customers. Here we are two years later and people are at a point where they want to know...should I keep investing in this game...it seems like they probably aren't going to add the features that *I* want.
I think they could avoid this in future games by focusing on the wider audience rather than the very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. I mean, every time they've shown a feature it has been a party and then the uproar is like...omg - more parties?! We don't need more parties. I don't even use parties or clubs or bars. So it's not just their development either, it's also their marketing.
That's a highly subjective things though. All Sims games so far have included both things that were important for me, and things that were not.
There was a lot of disappointed customers apparently over the missing pools. Pools are not one of the most important things to daily life for me. But it was to many people apparently. And yes, as surprising as it may be, there were people in that petition who were saying "I don't care about the toddlers, but pools should be in".
I agree that if you add all the things people want, there's quite a lot of them. But I don't think they focused on a very small audience who takes their sims to clubs and bars all the time. They included libraries and writing, gardening and fishing, museum, rocket science, lounge for the elders, parks for the children/teens. There is quite a wide spectrum of different things to do and use to tell stories. Not everything of course, but still more than parties/bars/nightclubs.
(I'll answer that for you: no it wasn't)