It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
The other people in EA's top probably all have similar backgrounds. They are not gamers or game designers but well educated top experts in running a big company and they know that they need good products which can't be made without money. Even though they aren't gamers or simmers at all they stI'll know though that a good basegame is necessary if you also have to sell a huge number of expansions for the game.
hm ... would they indeed know that, then TS4 would look very different as a base game
i fairly doubt that they even really know what sort of games they are producing & i think they quite don't care
& in fact they don't need to, who needs to be informed & in charge are those people who are the lead designers of this franchise
but unfortunately heads become exchanged & in the end nobody really knows what all that TheSims franchise is about at all & most even don't care
there are probably people involved who care but those might be not in any position to have to say how all this has to go
& i think this could be called mismanagement of a franchise
They see the game in a different way. But actually everybody in this forum don't agree on the type of game either. Some see it as a life simulation and think that babies, toddlers and children are the most important thing. Others see it as a dating game and don't care about children. Yet others see it as an adventure game where you can explore the gameplay. And some see it as mainly a creative tool to create sims, houses and clothes.
EA's top doesn't care about this. Instead they see it as a dollhouse game which have sold surprisingly well in now 4 versions from TS1 to TS4. They know that the side games and the versions for consoles and mobile devices didn't sell quite as well. But those games were smaller and cheaper to make. So they were probably profitable anyway. Also the Sims Freeplay seems to give EA a good income. So I actually think that EA's top is quite satisfied.
Everyone can argue about certain things until they are Blue ( which is My name thank you ) in the face, but the bottom line is, Sims 4 is missing way to much of everything, So we can all agree to that much at least for those of us Who did play from Sims 1 to 4, cause we know how much is actually missing, what gets Me is the folks who argue that Sims 4 is Not missing anything and they did not even play Sims 1 to 3, just makes Me say Really ?, point is We all can argue it all out but Sims 4 as of yet, is Not what it should of been, but lets keep hoping it gets there, .
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
I completely agree. But the problem was that it was easy to make the Sims 2 so much better than the Sims 1 just by adding good graphics, aging, toddlers, teens, young adults and elders to the game. But when they after this should make the Sims 3 and the Sims 4 what should they then add?
They had to come up with something or they knew that people would just go on playing the Sims 2 instead of buying the Sims 3. So they felt forced to add the open world even though the technology wasn't ready for this. So all the things you mention which made TS1 and TS2 so interesting were removed and they started to quests and other RPG elements instead. The problem renewing the game so people didn't just go on playing TS3 instead of buying TS4 and its expansions then became even bigger and the developers never found a good way to do it.
I still long for fears and wants, loved that feature. I had great pleasure of fulfilling their wants and would be devastated when I accidently completed a fear. I wanted to look after my TS2 sims.
....and toddlers. But well made, interactive, can't take your eyes off because they'll try and drink the toilet water type toddlers.
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
I completely agree. But the problem was that it was easy to make the Sims 2 so much better than the Sims 1 just by adding good graphics, aging, toddlers, teens, young adults and elders to the game. But when they after this should make the Sims 3 and the Sims 4 what should they then add?
They had to come up with something or they knew that people would just go on playing the Sims 2 instead of buying the Sims 3. So they felt forced to add the open world even though the technology wasn't ready for this. So all the things you mention which made TS1 and TS2 so interesting were removed and they started to quests and other RPG elements instead. The problem renewing the game so people didn't just go on playing TS3 instead of buying TS4 and its expansions then became even bigger and the developers never found a good way to do it.
Had they just copied TS2 design and features with the improvements on world editing, CAS and build modes, and maybe a few tweaks it would be a better game then TS4. Because TS2 is a superior game in complexity, design and content, so it would still be better than TS4 is. Of course it is my opinion on that, but I feel people would receive the game a lot better. Maybe complain about the fact that they have to rebuy the expansions and bla bla bla the same thing we hear every new base game.
Players are kinda dumb sometimes. They say they want innovation, but really, that's not what they want. Whenever any game in a franchise makes dramatic changes from its predecessors, it is going to have backlash. People want more of what they like, but with expanded gameplay, and that's the truth.
And I seriously think that Olympus has to be related to the way TS4 is. They really screwed up with SimCity 2013, and that was a mortal mistake, because they killed their own most iconical franchise. TS4/Olympus was being developed around that time. I don't think it is a coincidence...
what gets Me is the folks who argue that Sims 4 is Not missing anything and they did not even play Sims 1 to 3, just makes Me say Really ?
I would call that a blessing. They can truly enjoy the game for what it is rather than know what is missing.
I don't know if missing out on good features would be a blessing.....maybe more you don't know what you're missing. I know it happened to me after I bought TS3, my first Sims game. I liked it so much I bought TS2 to try. At that point I figured out what The Sims could be but wasn't quite in TS3.....I still loved it though.
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
I completely agree. But the problem was that it was easy to make the Sims 2 so much better than the Sims 1 just by adding good graphics, aging, toddlers, teens, young adults and elders to the game. But when they after this should make the Sims 3 and the Sims 4 what should they then add?
They had to come up with something or they knew that people would just go on playing the Sims 2 instead of buying the Sims 3. So they felt forced to add the open world even though the technology wasn't ready for this. So all the things you mention which made TS1 and TS2 so interesting were removed and they started to quests and other RPG elements instead. The problem renewing the game so people didn't just go on playing TS3 instead of buying TS4 and its expansions then became even bigger and the developers never found a good way to do it.
Had they just copied TS2 design and features with the improvements on world editing, CAS and build modes, and maybe a few tweaks it would be a better game then TS4. Because TS2 is a superior game in complexity, design and content, so it would still be better than TS4 is. Of course it is my opinion on that, but I feel people would receive the game a lot better. Maybe complain about the fact that they have to rebuy the expansions and bla bla bla the same thing we hear every new base game.
Players are kinda dumb sometimes. They say they want innovation, but really, that's not what they want. Whenever any game in a franchise makes dramatic changes from its predecessors, it is going to have backlash. People want more of what they like, but with expanded gameplay, and that's the truth.
And I seriously think that Olympus has to be related to the way TS4 is. They really screwed up with SimCity 2013, and that was a mortal mistake, because they killed their own most iconical franchise. TS4/Olympus was being developed around that time. I don't think it is a coincidence...
I think Olympus is why we don't have a lot of things, including a solid foundation like we had in previous games. It's probably why we don't have fully fleshed out life stages and why there aren't many differences between teens and young adults. And possibly why babies are objects (despite all of the explanations). I do think time and budget are the reasons we don't have a lot of things, but people still feel disappointed.
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
I completely agree. But the problem was that it was easy to make the Sims 2 so much better than the Sims 1 just by adding good graphics, aging, toddlers, teens, young adults and elders to the game. But when they after this should make the Sims 3 and the Sims 4 what should they then add?
They had to come up with something or they knew that people would just go on playing the Sims 2 instead of buying the Sims 3. So they felt forced to add the open world even though the technology wasn't ready for this. So all the things you mention which made TS1 and TS2 so interesting were removed and they started to quests and other RPG elements instead. The problem renewing the game so people didn't just go on playing TS3 instead of buying TS4 and its expansions then became even bigger and the developers never found a good way to do it.
Had they just copied TS2 design and features with the improvements on world editing, CAS and build modes, and maybe a few tweaks it would be a better game then TS4. Because TS2 is a superior game in complexity, design and content, so it would still be better than TS4 is. Of course it is my opinion on that, but I feel people would receive the game a lot better. Maybe complain about the fact that they have to rebuy the expansions and bla bla bla the same thing we hear every new base game.
I completely agree that it would have been a better game. But people would have been angry because they had lost the open world and they would have said:"What is this??? Are we going backwards to the Sims 2??? Does EA really think that we will buy that old game again?!??"
Players are kinda dumb sometimes. They say they want innovation, but really, that's not what they want. Whenever any game in a franchise makes dramatic changes from its predecessors, it is going to have backlash. People want more of what they like, but with expanded gameplay, and that's the truth.
People want improvements and not just changes. If people think that the changes gave them a worse game then they become angry.
And I seriously think that Olympus has to be related to the way TS4 is. They really screwed up with SimCity 2013, and that was a mortal mistake, because they killed their own most iconical franchise. TS4/Olympus was being developed around that time. I don't think it is a coincidence...
I think that Olympus was just one of the things they considered when they had to find the main things which could renew the game and impress people to make them curious enough to buy the game. If the developers really could have found a good way to let us visit each others cities then it could also have been a good idea. But I don't think that it really is possible - at least not with current technologies and the current speed of the Internet. The price would have been much too high.
I still long for fears and wants, loved that feature. I had great pleasure of fulfilling their wants and would be devastated when I accidently completed a fear. I wanted to look after my TS2 sims.
....and toddlers. But well made, interactive, can't take your eyes off because they'll try and drink the toilet water type toddlers.
Not sure if I agree with your last statement. That sure is how real toddlers are (can't take your eyes off or they'll get themselves in serious trouble), but I wonder if that continues being fun in a game.
It's been good to hear everyone's opinions about this issue, just remember not to stray too far off-topic.
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
there are countless threads on those forums which have same vague titles as the thread now
would this thread have been from the beginning about The Real Issue of TS4, i even wouldn't bother to participate
i don't know what the real issue is, everybody here has it's own definition of that probably ...
vaguely stirring the pot is not helpful at all
i won't be participating in the forums & the gallery anymore - thanks EA
None of the technical knowledge which is provided within this forum which is the real problem. Everyone is so busy deleting irrelevant files and running repair that they can't appreciate the product and the majority of their complaints are related to operating system and scripting problems which can't be resolved by re-installing anything or playing with launcher and device controls.
I'm coming out of lurking to say that even though I really like The Sims 4 I agree with the OP. I think the points about sims' reactions to things and the points made in the thread about traits being the same are my two main issues with the game.
I want to feel like the things that happen to my sims matter and have an effect on their lives. I think the emotions have potential but I want my sims to feel emotions from things that HAPPEN to them, not decor or incense or things like that. I'll give some examples of things that happened in my game that felt unsatisfying:
-I was playing a child sim and her friend suggested they ditch school for the day. The lot the friend took them to was a bar, which I can get behind because it seems like something kids would do to be rebellious. But NO ONE there acted like there was anything unusual about two children being in a bar during school hours. A bunch of adults showed up and started dancing and chatting with them as if nothing was out of the ordinary. I finally felt too weird about the situation so I had them go play at a park instead. By the time they got back it was night time. When I got home I was wondering if the parents would react at all but they acted like they didn't even notice she was gone. In real life if a child doesn't show up for school and goes missing until the sun comes down her parents would be having a heart attack! I made the parents yell at her but it felt kind of empty... I would rather feel like they noticed and cared.
-I had a father take his child-aged daughter to the park and a random townie came up and started doing mean interactions with her. The dad just stared blankly forward and didn't try to defend his daughter at all. I had to "introduce" him to the townie before he could even tell her to buzz off. It felt weird.
-I had a two sims get into a fight with each other by doing mean interactions for a while. After I stopped forcing the interactions they went into the kitchen and started chatting with friendly interactions. Other than their relationship bar taking a hit, it was like nothing had even happened.
I'm not trying to pick on The Sims 4 because I don't know if things would have gone much differently in other versions of the game, but I still wish the sims had more of a sense of what is appropriate for the situation they're in. I just started playing The Sims 2 and I understand why people say the sims are much more complex. I find their reactions to situations much more realistic and satisfying. For example, I was playing the Goths and after Cassandra got left at the altar Alexander started crying. I realized it was the first time in a sims game (I've played 3 and 4) that I've seen a sim upset about something that happened to someone ELSE, someone they cared about. I wish we could have more things like that.
It makes me a bit sad because I feel like no matter how many EPs and things they add to the game this aspect of the sims will never be changed. I do enjoy the game but it is a bit discouraging.
I like the trait system better in The Sims 3 and 4. It has more variety than just being Neat/Lazy, Shy/Outgoing, Mean/Nice, etc. and etc.
Yes, but we all possess each of those qualities, to some degree. TS2 allowed us to set an intensity for each of those categories, and the amount of points you allocated to each various category allowed for many different combinations of personalities.
The massive flaw with traits is the fact you are limited to 5 (3 in TS4), and it is either you possess the trait or you don't. That's not how it works. We should have access to as many traits as we want, and from there, select the intensity of each one, the most points meaning it is a prevalent trait of a Sim that stands out significantly.
I like the trait system better in The Sims 3 and 4. It has more variety than just being Neat/Lazy, Shy/Outgoing, Mean/Nice, etc. and etc.
Yes, but we all possess each of those qualities, to some degree. TS2 allowed us to set an intensity for each of those categories, and the amount of points you allocated to each various category allowed for many different combinations of personalities.
The massive flaw with traits is the fact you are limited to 5 (3 in TS4), and it is either you possess the trait or you don't. That's not how it works. We should have access to as many traits as we want, and from there, select the intensity of each one, the most points meaning it is a prevalent trait of a Sim that stands out significantly.
I don't mind there are five, because the more traits the less personality (in terms of uniqueness). If all sims could choose like ten traits and characteristics, they'd all become pretty much the same in the end. I do agree though a system where you can select the intensity deepens them. I have no idea if it would work that way, but untill proven wrong I stick to my two panels system (one for traits, one for personality) and the ability to set the intensity like in 2. And if a sim is a naturally born poor cook, I don't want him to ever become a chef.
I like the trait system better in The Sims 3 and 4. It has more variety than just being Neat/Lazy, Shy/Outgoing, Mean/Nice, etc. and etc.
Yes, but we all possess each of those qualities, to some degree. TS2 allowed us to set an intensity for each of those categories, and the amount of points you allocated to each various category allowed for many different combinations of personalities.
The massive flaw with traits is the fact you are limited to 5 (3 in TS4), and it is either you possess the trait or you don't. That's not how it works. We should have access to as many traits as we want, and from there, select the intensity of each one, the most points meaning it is a prevalent trait of a Sim that stands out significantly.
I don't mind there are five, because the more traits the less personality (in terms of uniqueness). If all sims could choose like ten traits and characteristics, they'd all become pretty much the same in the end. I do agree though a system where you can select the intensity deepens them. I have no idea if it would work that way, but untill proven wrong I stick to my two panels system (one for traits, one for personality) and the ability to set the intensity like in 2. And if a sim is a naturally born poor cook, I don't want him to ever become a chef.
Ironically in TS4 every sim can become every thing.
I'm a girl who likes to play with boys, what can I say...
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
Some people flock to complexity, while others like to keep it simple. While I do think only 3 traits is much too little and 5 traits is still a bit short, two Sims with similair traits will still act similarly. Traits with the Sims 2 system would be the perfect blend of everything. Maybe have the traits affect the other options and be predominant since in the Sims 3 and 4 they are practically the only defining features of a Sim's personality. If you wanted it simple, you would choose traits and let the rest (turn on/offs, the bars, etc.) be determined by the traits, or choose the traits then tweak the personality if you wanted more individuality.
Apparently complexity was worth it when TS2 was designed. But now games are too hard for us to learn so I guess adjustments had to be made.
When TS2 was being designed, Maxis was still riding the big wave of the original Sims, which was still selling well. There was no rush to bring out another Sims game. 15 years later, things have changed greatly. Now EA needs the franchise to keep bringing in X number of dollars in X amount of time or it's no longer worthwhile. It's the difference between a product that creativity-driven versus profit-driven.
"We've been attributing the state of The Sims 4 to greed but I think it's time to give sheer incompetence another look."
-Honeywell
Apparently complexity was worth it when TS2 was designed. But now games are too hard for us to learn so I guess adjustments had to be made.
When TS2 was being designed, Maxis was still riding the big wave of the original Sims, which was still selling well. There was no rush to bring out another Sims game. 15 years later, things have changed greatly. Now EA needs the franchise to keep bringing in X number of dollars in X amount of time or it's no longer worthwhile. It's the difference between a product that creativity-driven versus profit-driven.
I don't agree because this isn't the difference between the mentioned situations. The two situations are similar:
1. TS1 was never meant to have more than at most a single expansion. But the game sold so unexpected well that EA had to make no less than seven EPs. This was technically difficult because the game wasn't prepared for them. But EA managed to it anyway. Their installation just didn't work every time and their were no change that it would work unless the EPs were installed in the correct order. After 7 EPs it was therefore very needed to start over with a new game and the game badly needed much better graphichs too.
2. TS3 was meant to have many expansions. But they were difficult to make because EA had felt it necessary to include the open world even though our computers weren't actually really strong enough for such a game yet because otherwise EA had feared that people would have stayed with TS2 instead of buying TS3. After a huge number of expansions and DLCs the game had become bugged and unstable. So a new game was badly needed because otherwise those problems would just have continued and become even bigger.
The real difference thus is that the Sims 1 was easy to improve with better graphichs, aging and no less than 4 new age groups. TS2 was therefore easy to make while TS4 wasn't.
I don't agree that the Sims 2 was a more complex game either though. It just had more focus om relations between the sims and between the sims and us while the Sims 4 attempts to change the focus to more random, magically and less logical behavior because the developers just couldn't find a better way to renew the game. They needed to find a better way for this - but couldn't because the best way already had been used in a previous game.
Yet another simmer that's upset with the current personality system.
We need a hybrid system for TS5!!! Or for any other competitor that happens to read the forums
I Feel we need to hire back the original sims 2 or 3 team back and let them make the Sims 5
At least they knew the game and gave us the freedom to make and play anyway we wanted.
If I wanted to live on mar's or in a jungle, I could make that.
Total freedom to play and craft my game world anyway I wanted my game to be.
Not like the sims 4
2. TS3 was meant to have many expansions. But they were difficult to make because EA had felt it necessary to include the open world even though our computers weren't actually really strong enough for such a game yet because otherwise EA had feared that people would have stayed with TS2 instead of buying TS3. After a huge number of expansions and DLCs the game had become bugged and unstable. So a new game was badly needed because otherwise those problems would just have continued and become even bigger.
Your computer being outdated = YOUR problem. Its not EA's fault that they needed Simmers to use much better computers to play a new game years after the last main title. How else can you expect improvement if you're not willing to invest into something? This excuse is tired and lazy. While the game was optimized rather badly, PC requirements increasing for newer games is the norm and not the exception.
Comments
I'm going to change the title of this thread to "The Real Issue of The Sims 4". This in no way is meant to downplay everybody else's issue with the game, but seriously. Toddlers, or no toddlers, open world, or no open world, multitasking or no multitasking; every time I see people complain about any of those, I can tell that that is not the underlying reason so many people are dissappointed in this game. This game's substance is missing from the previous games, and substance comes from complexity. Complexity of the sims, and their environment.
I keep going back to TS3 for building-related reasons, and then TS1 and TS2 for it's focus on sims, time-managment aspect of the game (sims in TS3 and TS4 have way too much free time on their hands, as an adult I have almost ZERO time to watch TV for five hours straight), and of course the personalities of The Sims. Those aspects are what had made The first 2 games in the series what they were, and their absence in the last two are why they feel so different, and much less interesting to play.
your change will kill off this thread completely
what is REAL ?
complexity is far better word
EA's top doesn't care about this. Instead they see it as a dollhouse game which have sold surprisingly well in now 4 versions from TS1 to TS4. They know that the side games and the versions for consoles and mobile devices didn't sell quite as well. But those games were smaller and cheaper to make. So they were probably profitable anyway. Also the Sims Freeplay seems to give EA a good income. So I actually think that EA's top is quite satisfied.
I understand your concern, but what is real is that no matter how many objects or interactions are added to this game, it's still going to be an empty experience for many because basically TS4 is a role-playing game; you have to force your sims to behave according to their traits, you are forced to complete the same tasks for jobs, you are forced to complete the same tasks for dating. This is the same thing with TS3, the store added so many new objects and gameplay, as did expansion and stuff packs, but that game still feels quite lacking. All the extra objects do is help me make more interesting builds for roleplaying purposes, but the fun of that wears off quickly. In the first two games there was a certain magic in playing sims in a lot that you created and seeing how they reacted to it by themselves. In TS4, these sims couldn't care less if they lived in a half finished small cabin vs a lixurious mansion, they willl still behave like everyone else. And it will always be like that for this game, and no new objects or gameplay are going to fix that, unless the code for this game is rewritten, and that is a REAL problem.
They had to come up with something or they knew that people would just go on playing the Sims 2 instead of buying the Sims 3. So they felt forced to add the open world even though the technology wasn't ready for this. So all the things you mention which made TS1 and TS2 so interesting were removed and they started to quests and other RPG elements instead. The problem renewing the game so people didn't just go on playing TS3 instead of buying TS4 and its expansions then became even bigger and the developers never found a good way to do it.
....and toddlers. But well made, interactive, can't take your eyes off because they'll try and drink the toilet water type toddlers.
I would call that a blessing. They can truly enjoy the game for what it is rather than know what is missing.
Had they just copied TS2 design and features with the improvements on world editing, CAS and build modes, and maybe a few tweaks it would be a better game then TS4. Because TS2 is a superior game in complexity, design and content, so it would still be better than TS4 is. Of course it is my opinion on that, but I feel people would receive the game a lot better. Maybe complain about the fact that they have to rebuy the expansions and bla bla bla the same thing we hear every new base game.
Players are kinda dumb sometimes. They say they want innovation, but really, that's not what they want. Whenever any game in a franchise makes dramatic changes from its predecessors, it is going to have backlash. People want more of what they like, but with expanded gameplay, and that's the truth.
And I seriously think that Olympus has to be related to the way TS4 is. They really screwed up with SimCity 2013, and that was a mortal mistake, because they killed their own most iconical franchise. TS4/Olympus was being developed around that time. I don't think it is a coincidence...
The Sims has always been an important part of my life, and may it continue to be so! Long live Sims!
[Due to some kind of glitch, I am unable to insert photos into my signature for some reason.]
I don't know if missing out on good features would be a blessing.....maybe more you don't know what you're missing. I know it happened to me after I bought TS3, my first Sims game. I liked it so much I bought TS2 to try. At that point I figured out what The Sims could be but wasn't quite in TS3.....I still loved it though.
I think Olympus is why we don't have a lot of things, including a solid foundation like we had in previous games. It's probably why we don't have fully fleshed out life stages and why there aren't many differences between teens and young adults. And possibly why babies are objects (despite all of the explanations). I do think time and budget are the reasons we don't have a lot of things, but people still feel disappointed.
People want improvements and not just changes. If people think that the changes gave them a worse game then they become angry.
I think that Olympus was just one of the things they considered when they had to find the main things which could renew the game and impress people to make them curious enough to buy the game. If the developers really could have found a good way to let us visit each others cities then it could also have been a good idea. But I don't think that it really is possible - at least not with current technologies and the current speed of the Internet. The price would have been much too high.
there are countless threads on those forums which have same vague titles as the thread now
would this thread have been from the beginning about The Real Issue of TS4, i even wouldn't bother to participate
i don't know what the real issue is, everybody here has it's own definition of that probably ...
vaguely stirring the pot is not helpful at all
None of the technical knowledge which is provided within this forum which is the real problem. Everyone is so busy deleting irrelevant files and running repair that they can't appreciate the product and the majority of their complaints are related to operating system and scripting problems which can't be resolved by re-installing anything or playing with launcher and device controls.
I want to feel like the things that happen to my sims matter and have an effect on their lives. I think the emotions have potential but I want my sims to feel emotions from things that HAPPEN to them, not decor or incense or things like that. I'll give some examples of things that happened in my game that felt unsatisfying:
-I was playing a child sim and her friend suggested they ditch school for the day. The lot the friend took them to was a bar, which I can get behind because it seems like something kids would do to be rebellious. But NO ONE there acted like there was anything unusual about two children being in a bar during school hours. A bunch of adults showed up and started dancing and chatting with them as if nothing was out of the ordinary. I finally felt too weird about the situation so I had them go play at a park instead. By the time they got back it was night time. When I got home I was wondering if the parents would react at all but they acted like they didn't even notice she was gone. In real life if a child doesn't show up for school and goes missing until the sun comes down her parents would be having a heart attack! I made the parents yell at her but it felt kind of empty... I would rather feel like they noticed and cared.
-I had a father take his child-aged daughter to the park and a random townie came up and started doing mean interactions with her. The dad just stared blankly forward and didn't try to defend his daughter at all. I had to "introduce" him to the townie before he could even tell her to buzz off. It felt weird.
-I had a two sims get into a fight with each other by doing mean interactions for a while. After I stopped forcing the interactions they went into the kitchen and started chatting with friendly interactions. Other than their relationship bar taking a hit, it was like nothing had even happened.
I'm not trying to pick on The Sims 4 because I don't know if things would have gone much differently in other versions of the game, but I still wish the sims had more of a sense of what is appropriate for the situation they're in. I just started playing The Sims 2 and I understand why people say the sims are much more complex. I find their reactions to situations much more realistic and satisfying. For example, I was playing the Goths and after Cassandra got left at the altar Alexander started crying. I realized it was the first time in a sims game (I've played 3 and 4) that I've seen a sim upset about something that happened to someone ELSE, someone they cared about. I wish we could have more things like that.
It makes me a bit sad because I feel like no matter how many EPs and things they add to the game this aspect of the sims will never be changed. I do enjoy the game but it is a bit discouraging.
Yes, but we all possess each of those qualities, to some degree. TS2 allowed us to set an intensity for each of those categories, and the amount of points you allocated to each various category allowed for many different combinations of personalities.
The massive flaw with traits is the fact you are limited to 5 (3 in TS4), and it is either you possess the trait or you don't. That's not how it works. We should have access to as many traits as we want, and from there, select the intensity of each one, the most points meaning it is a prevalent trait of a Sim that stands out significantly.
Ironically in TS4 every sim can become every thing.
“Instead of putting players in the role of Luke Skywalker, or Frodo Baggins, I'd rather put them in the role of George Lucas.”Will Wright.
When TS2 was being designed, Maxis was still riding the big wave of the original Sims, which was still selling well. There was no rush to bring out another Sims game. 15 years later, things have changed greatly. Now EA needs the franchise to keep bringing in X number of dollars in X amount of time or it's no longer worthwhile. It's the difference between a product that creativity-driven versus profit-driven.
"We've been attributing the state of The Sims 4 to greed but I think it's time to give sheer incompetence another look."
-Honeywell
1. TS1 was never meant to have more than at most a single expansion. But the game sold so unexpected well that EA had to make no less than seven EPs. This was technically difficult because the game wasn't prepared for them. But EA managed to it anyway. Their installation just didn't work every time and their were no change that it would work unless the EPs were installed in the correct order. After 7 EPs it was therefore very needed to start over with a new game and the game badly needed much better graphichs too.
2. TS3 was meant to have many expansions. But they were difficult to make because EA had felt it necessary to include the open world even though our computers weren't actually really strong enough for such a game yet because otherwise EA had feared that people would have stayed with TS2 instead of buying TS3. After a huge number of expansions and DLCs the game had become bugged and unstable. So a new game was badly needed because otherwise those problems would just have continued and become even bigger.
The real difference thus is that the Sims 1 was easy to improve with better graphichs, aging and no less than 4 new age groups. TS2 was therefore easy to make while TS4 wasn't.
I don't agree that the Sims 2 was a more complex game either though. It just had more focus om relations between the sims and between the sims and us while the Sims 4 attempts to change the focus to more random, magically and less logical behavior because the developers just couldn't find a better way to renew the game. They needed to find a better way for this - but couldn't because the best way already had been used in a previous game.
I Feel we need to hire back the original sims 2 or 3 team back and let them make the Sims 5
At least they knew the game and gave us the freedom to make and play anyway we wanted.
If I wanted to live on mar's or in a jungle, I could make that.
Total freedom to play and craft my game world anyway I wanted my game to be.
Not like the sims 4
Your computer being outdated = YOUR problem. Its not EA's fault that they needed Simmers to use much better computers to play a new game years after the last main title. How else can you expect improvement if you're not willing to invest into something? This excuse is tired and lazy. While the game was optimized rather badly, PC requirements increasing for newer games is the norm and not the exception.
OUTER SENSHI PRIDE