But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
Would you rather have really sucky toddlers right now, or really good toddlers in 2 years?
Well it's going on 2 years so they shouldn't be sucky at this point. They should be awesome and FREE by now.
That's the thing, we've asked EA to take their time and do it right. If you'll see from my other posts, I think toddlers are coming and I think this is what EA is doing.
I agree. I think they are coming too, but I think EA is polishing them off before they announce it because we all know as soon as they announce toddlers are coming there will be a flood of questions and assumptions being made on this forum.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I tweeted them earlier right after their post and info-graphic came out. They say they did all that because we asked for it but yet they cant give us toddlers or at least a simple yes or no to whether they will be in the game.
Because they haven't flat out decided that won't be in the game, but haven't decided they will be yet. Why say yes or no when they aren't sure.
The devs already said numourous times, that they haven't decided whether or not they will come. Direct quote was "we're looking into Toddlers, but have nothing to announce right now"
In other words, they are exploring concepts right now but have nothing set in stone to announce. Obviously they won't say no if they are looking into it or yes if it's not decided.
They haven't decided whether they want toddlers in the game or not? What kind of 🐸🐸🐸🐸 is that? Now we costumers don't even get to word what we want? Either your comment is really really wrong or there is some weird stuff going on at EA.
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
@TanyaRubirose, glad you found my post amusing. And, sorry to say this, but as much as you're trying, you're not going to be the hero who saves this franchise. In the long run, it's The Mythical Corporation's choice, and as I've said time and time again, the Head Honchos apparently have no idea who their customer base is...no clue as to actual demographics, or they'd be marketing to adults instead of children.
And the kind of protest you're talking about, where you would see thread after thread slamming EA and having fans voice their displeasure at the new direction of the game probably wouldn't be tolerated here, as the rules seem to indicate that they're not about to put up with such nonsense and those threads would be deleted and the posters who make them put on warning.
You keep making these vague suggestions, and yet, the truth is, we fans/customers have made our displeasure known, only to have you accuse us of antagonizing the company, so we won't get what we want out of spite. Sorry, but I don't see any way to placate a company who is determined to go its own way and is willing to gamble that the fans will follow. It's not the first time they've gone off on tangents....do you, by any chance, remember when they took on Zynga on Facebook and lost? And when Zynga took them on and lost? EA was determined to take over Facebook and give Zynga stiff competition. And they lost out, big time.
But they're still after that social media market. Hence the change in tactics. It wouldn't matter if we all started buying again, if they're determined to shut down this franchise so that they can repurpose it for the mobile market, they'll do it.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
They already have Sims 3 in full production in the mobile market now for just a year - why on earth would they even consider Sims 4 as needed by mobile when it offers NOTHING not already in Sims 3 on top of all else only Sims 3 offers. Exactly what makes Sims 4 even the slightest bit interesting to mobile players? Not a thing that I can see as it cannot hold a candle to Sims 3 where all they have to do is change their already pc developed 6 years of eps and play from Sims 3 into mobile - but Sims 4 still doesn't even have much of a niche yet. It is just a shadow of what Sims 3 offers - and sims 3 style actually somewhat works for mobile that Sims 4 could not even begin to equate. What is its selling point - loading screens? Lol. I am sure the app market is just clamoring for load screens to go in every building. Yep, big selling point that. So what does Sims 4 offer an app - NOTHING!!! Not one darned thing - it needs to do a heck of a lot more here on pc and actually showing it has something to crow about before it will ever be of interest to the mobile sector - never mind the long time Sims pc players. Right now it actually fails at both.
Let's see what does Sims 4 offer - build mode, blue print, CAS - well none of that is going to help you in a mobile app - as let's face it mobile apps all look pretty much alike as I really don't see a lot different in looking at Sims Free Play app and looking at the new Sims 3 app - even with their newest introduction of the Sims 3 WA - Sims 3 just looks like free play with Sims 3 added eps in elementary school looking app games. Let's face it - apps look very much like dos games from 20 years ago at most.
So no Sims 4 has zero to offer the app world when the completed Sims 3 at least has lots of eps to add interest to a sims app - still just calling it Sims 3 I still see no difference in the Sims 3 version and the Freeplay one.
As far as Sims 4 goes - at its at least present state - if this game dies - it has no reason to be resurrected as a Sims app at all - when Maxis already has tons of material from Sims 3 to go and Sims 4 offers zilch. So if it dies it is because it could not reach the standards it needs to reach to first make a successful Sims pc game - as it really has no where to go from here until it either does something amazing or at least makes the changes to make it beloved by ALL the fans. This is where Maxis fails - when they stop caring what ALL the fans want and make just what they want and part of the fan base. You do not take away established game play and expect to keep the fans used to playing the game with that family play that have done so faithfully for the last 10 years and expect to hold on to them. That my friends is Maxis failure and not the fault of Sims players who cannot enjoy a game where their play style no longer exists or is supported. So don't blame your fellow players for not supporting a game you like, because to us the game is still empty and offers us NOTHING - just like Sims 4 offers mobile nothing.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
@TanyaRubirose all the while you are arguing that anything everyone else does amounts to nothing you'll never see anyone 'rise up' and bother to do anything. Fact is people are tired because they've all been doing a lot since the base was released. You may think it's pointless but customers have been very effective in getting heard outside of EA even if the company don't have their listening ears on. That will mean a legacy of when EA tries to claim those customers didn't want a new game there will be plenty of outside sources to point to which illustrate the opposite. It effectively counters the claim and also the claim that simmers are unreasonable made by some.
I'm pretty sure it has had an impact what simmers have done. It'll be why those higher up at EA try to hard to excuse themselves in interviews. It's been all over the press how this has been handled-as well as the legacy of SC2013 too. The common theme? Maxis and EA refusing to acknowledge their customers and arguing until they are blue in the face that the customer is wrong. Let's not forget the claim from Lucy Bradshaw that offline play was impossible. Only to have the modders prove they weren't accurate by doing exactly that. Then dropping the offline patch for everyone before shutting it down.
What exactly do you think is the solution?! How are people supposed to 'do more'?!
Personally I think the reason they haven't bothered is because they've decided it's not cost effective to finish the base just in case it doesn't recapture those customers they alienated early on. Maybe the limitations of the engine because it was repurposed from online isn't fit to include what people are looking for. It's cheaper to ignore the issue in terms of development time and cost and then if they decide to go along with TS5 they can turn round and say 'we listened now-look what's back'. And because they made a new game made for a traditional sims game it would be cheaper than trying to reprogram something not made to accommodate those features.
Sometimes companies cut their losses. So far a lot if releases for TS4 follow the DLC pattern for the subscription service or what we were due in Olympus anyway-just without the online part. Windenberg was seen before release even. It may be they are making as much money as they can from TS4 before they move on.
Ultimately the problems were caused by EA/Maxis and responsibilities to fix it also lies with them. At no point is it a customers 'fault' for the decisions they make as a company.
Oh and by the way it's never been 'my' boycott. People make their own decisions and in the entire family thread I've supported those who like the game and those who don't. I've only ever encouraged open communication with EA/Maxis on what they as individuals want to see in the sims and I'm merely the original poster who took the time to try to give a play style I enjoy a voice somewhere without all the daft 'your opinion doesn't matter' business, judgements and ridiculous insults over nothing.
And you know what? People are really wonderful over there for respecting each other and I'm very grateful to have 'met' so many fellow customers who are interested in discussing the sims and what it means to them without unnecessary drama 'noise'.
@TanyaRubirose, glad you found my post amusing. And, sorry to say this, but as much as you're trying, you're not going to be the hero who saves this franchise. In the long run, it's The Mythical Corporation's choice, and as I've said time and time again, the Head Honchos apparently have no idea who their customer base is...no clue as to actual demographics, or they'd be marketing to adults instead of children.
And the kind of protest you're talking about, where you would see thread after thread slamming EA and having fans voice their displeasure at the new direction of the game probably wouldn't be tolerated here, as the rules seem to indicate that they're not about to put up with such nonsense and those threads would be deleted and the posters who make them put on warning.
You keep making these vague suggestions, and yet, the truth is, we fans/customers have made our displeasure known, only to have you accuse us of antagonizing the company, so we won't get what we want out of spite. Sorry, but I don't see any way to placate a company who is determined to go its own way and is willing to gamble that the fans will follow. It's not the first time they've gone off on tangents....do you, by any chance, remember when they took on Zynga on Facebook and lost? And when Zynga took them on and lost? EA was determined to take over Facebook and give Zynga stiff competition. And they lost out, big time.
But they're still after that social media market. Hence the change in tactics. It wouldn't matter if we all started buying again, if they're determined to shut down this franchise so that they can repurpose it for the mobile market, they'll do it.
You're right I'm not going to be the hero to save this. I knew that at the start. Just like I know this is the last game of its kind, despite my wishes otherwise. But, I'm willing to fight a hopeless fight.
Yeah, I've read the forum rules. They're pretty much the Sims 3 forum rules with a couple of updates. If such threads would not be tolerated here... then why do they tolerate the toddler threads, which often do involve slamming EA and having the fans voice their displeasure at how the game has gone?
And, really, not liking the antagonism bit? Then study how businesses react to them. Saying a boycott is an antagonistic relationship isn't some accusation intended to disparage what you're doing; it's a simple fact of life due to how companies react to boycotts. Why do you think I kept bringing up those examples by other companies earlier in the thread? Or posting those pictures of boycotts done in person?
Except, boycotts don't work on video game companies. You can do a Google search for them; EA alone has around a couple dozen active at current. Not an exact figure simply because I got tired of clicking links. Yet, take one look at any of their games and tell me where one single boycott has accomplished what it's after.
If they're that determined to force this into a mobile game and there really is no hope... then why continue any effort to fight it? You know they'll ignore you. And there's other game companies out there and other communities. Even other Sims communities. And if there is enough hope for a tactic to be used, then why rely on one that you personally have watched fail in prior iterations and times when EA was more willing to listen?
I'm at least making some final effort to come up with something that hasn't been done a thousand times and failed, instead of simply arguing everything fails and so you might as well boycott.
Op what makes a Game popular is the content that is in the game that influance the gamer that buys the game let me take for exemple the sims2 sims3 what was the top note for players in these 2 games was toddlers and cars in the case of the sims4 because ea/maxi had to scrape there olympus version of the sims4 mid way because of the online fiasco of the last simcity game that came out they had to rework evrything on short notice in order to get missing content we now hoave to wait for patchs gamepacks stuffpacks not counting that a high price was slap on the sims4 basegame if you look at the price in canadien currency 60.00$ plus tax the sims4 limited edition if you add sales tax if i count 15% because of the quebec sales tax the game sums up at 80.64$ with tax for the premium editon with tax the game is near 200.00$ so over time it gets costly @TanyaRubirose as stated in the post above they are working hard on giving the missing content to simmers it takes time since they have to desing the object in a paint program then comes adding the coding for the object to be usable in the game
If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about boycotting either
@TanyaRubirose and you aren't seeing that is exactly what others are doing too. Doing their best to try to save the game they love.
That too. I mean there is very little we can do as buyers. I actually think those who boycot the game are way stronger than i am. I keep complaining about the game , but I own everything they have come out with. The only positive thing about this is that I can give my opinion about the new content cause I've experienced it myself.
@TanyaRubirose all the while you are arguing that anything everyone else does amounts to nothing you'll never see anyone 'rise up' and bother to do anything. Fact is people are tired because they've all been doing a lot since the base was released. You may think it's pointless but customers have been very effective in getting heard outside of EA even if the company don't have their listening ears on. That will mean a legacy of when EA tries to claim those customers didn't want a new game there will be plenty of outside sources to point to which illustrate the opposite. It effectively counters the claim and also the claim that simmers are unreasonable made by some.
Except I'm not arguing that anything everyone does amounts to nothing. The argument along those lines was made in this post. I'm arguing we need to try something the community hasn't done before very frequently.
And, yeah, they'll still try to spin it. Like they tried with SimCity. And it doesn't matter if you call them out on it; end of the day, they still ended the studio that produced those games.
I'm pretty sure it has had an impact what simmers have done. It'll be why those higher up at EA try to hard to excuse themselves in interviews. It's been all over the press how this has been handled-as well as the legacy of SC2013 too. The common theme? Maxis and EA refusing to acknowledge their customers and arguing until they are blue in the face that the customer is wrong. Let's not forget the claim from Lucy Bradshaw that offline play was impossible. Only to have the modders prove they weren't accurate by doing exactly that. Then dropping the offline patch for everyone before shutting it down.
Yeah. And most people ignored it. EA continues to rake in the profits.
What exactly do you think is the solution?! How are people supposed to 'do more'?!
The community itself needs to be more cohesive in its stance. And needs to be a lot louder. So far, what I'm seeing are the standard complaint-style threads that went mostly ignored in the Sims 3 era. Not the massive flood of "oh plum no" to Sims 4 that followed the debut of SimCity and its failure, and which continued all the way up until Sims 4 was released to a degree.
Personally I think the reason they haven't bothered is because they've decided it's not cost effective to finish the base just in case it doesn't recapture those customers they alienated early on. Maybe the limitations of the engine because it was repurposed from online isn't fit to include what people are looking for. It's cheaper to ignore the issue in terms of development time and cost and then if they decide to go along with TS5 they can turn round and say 'we listened now-look what's back'. And because they made a new game made for a traditional sims game it would be cheaper than trying to reprogram something not made to accommodate those features.
Sometimes companies cut their losses. So far a lot if releases for TS4 follow the DLC pattern for the subscription service or what we were due in Olympus anyway-just without the online part. Windenberg was seen before release even. It may be they are making as much money as they can from TS4 before they move on.
Ultimately the problems were caused by EA/Maxis and responsibilities to fix it also lies with them. At no point is it a customers 'fault' for the decisions they make as a company.
TS4 is probably also in a bit of a holding pattern; they're stringing out the EPs and GPs because they need to make it last 5 years while they develop Sims 5. That could be why we get those so infrequently, and get a lot of SPs in the meantime. They only have so much content they can add, they know it, and they're trying to make it stretch. I've seen that happen too.
You won't find me arguing otherwise that Maxis caused the problems and that EA, now that Maxis is dead, has to fix them. But the success or failure of a game isn't just related to its problems. I've seen very, very good games die simply because no one wanted to play them, and crappy games become series because people bought them a lot for the gimmick they used. It is, to a degree, a two-way relationship. But a boycott takes it further than that.
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about boycotting either
And a repeat of this headache of an argument. Here's the relevant posts on this thread, from him, about whether or not he was talking about boycotting:
His stance, as best as I can tell, is that what he's doing is not a real boycott, but actually is a boycott under the definition of the word "boycott." So whether or not he's talking about boycotting, as per his own words, literally comes down to how you define the word.
@TanyaRubirose all the while you are arguing that anything everyone else does amounts to nothing you'll never see anyone 'rise up' and bother to do anything. Fact is people are tired because they've all been doing a lot since the base was released. You may think it's pointless but customers have been very effective in getting heard outside of EA even if the company don't have their listening ears on. That will mean a legacy of when EA tries to claim those customers didn't want a new game there will be plenty of outside sources to point to which illustrate the opposite. It effectively counters the claim and also the claim that simmers are unreasonable made by some.
Except I'm not arguing that anything everyone does amounts to nothing. The argument along those lines was made in this post. I'm arguing we need to try something the community hasn't done before very frequently.
And, yeah, they'll still try to spin it. Like they tried with SimCity. And it doesn't matter if you call them out on it; end of the day, they still ended the studio that produced those games.
I'm pretty sure it has had an impact what simmers have done. It'll be why those higher up at EA try to hard to excuse themselves in interviews. It's been all over the press how this has been handled-as well as the legacy of SC2013 too. The common theme? Maxis and EA refusing to acknowledge their customers and arguing until they are blue in the face that the customer is wrong. Let's not forget the claim from Lucy Bradshaw that offline play was impossible. Only to have the modders prove they weren't accurate by doing exactly that. Then dropping the offline patch for everyone before shutting it down.
Yeah. And most people ignored it. EA continues to rake in the profits.
What exactly do you think is the solution?! How are people supposed to 'do more'?!
The community itself needs to be more cohesive in its stance. And needs to be a lot louder. So far, what I'm seeing are the standard complaint-style threads that went mostly ignored in the Sims 3 era. Not the massive flood of "oh plum no" to Sims 4 that followed the debut of SimCity and its failure, and which continued all the way up until Sims 4 was released to a degree.
Personally I think the reason they haven't bothered is because they've decided it's not cost effective to finish the base just in case it doesn't recapture those customers they alienated early on. Maybe the limitations of the engine because it was repurposed from online isn't fit to include what people are looking for. It's cheaper to ignore the issue in terms of development time and cost and then if they decide to go along with TS5 they can turn round and say 'we listened now-look what's back'. And because they made a new game made for a traditional sims game it would be cheaper than trying to reprogram something not made to accommodate those features.
Sometimes companies cut their losses. So far a lot if releases for TS4 follow the DLC pattern for the subscription service or what we were due in Olympus anyway-just without the online part. Windenberg was seen before release even. It may be they are making as much money as they can from TS4 before they move on.
Ultimately the problems were caused by EA/Maxis and responsibilities to fix it also lies with them. At no point is it a customers 'fault' for the decisions they make as a company.
TS4 is probably also in a bit of a holding pattern; they're stringing out the EPs and GPs because they need to make it last 5 years while they develop Sims 5. That could be why we get those so infrequently, and get a lot of SPs in the meantime. They only have so much content they can add, they know it, and they're trying to make it stretch. I've seen that happen too.
You won't find me arguing otherwise that Maxis caused the problems and that EA, now that Maxis is dead, has to fix them. But the success or failure of a game isn't just related to its problems. I've seen very, very good games die simply because no one wanted to play them, and crappy games become series because people bought them a lot for the gimmick they used. It is, to a degree, a two-way relationship. But a boycott takes it further than that.
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about boycotting either
And a repeat of this headache of an argument. Here's the relevant posts on this thread, from him, about whether or not he was talking about boycotting:
His stance, as best as I can tell, is that what he's doing is not a real boycott, but actually is a boycott under the definition of the word "boycott." So whether or not he's talking about boycotting, as per his own words, literally comes down to how you define the word.
You are the one now saying that you meant that boycotting was pretty much not helping at all, but that you are ok with ppl not buying a game they don't want . I'm just saying the person you replied to literally said what he was doing wasnt boycotting, but simply not buying a game he doesn't want
@TanyaRubirose all the while you are arguing that anything everyone else does amounts to nothing you'll never see anyone 'rise up' and bother to do anything. Fact is people are tired because they've all been doing a lot since the base was released. You may think it's pointless but customers have been very effective in getting heard outside of EA even if the company don't have their listening ears on. That will mean a legacy of when EA tries to claim those customers didn't want a new game there will be plenty of outside sources to point to which illustrate the opposite. It effectively counters the claim and also the claim that simmers are unreasonable made by some.
Except I'm not arguing that anything everyone does amounts to nothing. The argument along those lines was made in this post. I'm arguing we need to try something the community hasn't done before very frequently.
And, yeah, they'll still try to spin it. Like they tried with SimCity. And it doesn't matter if you call them out on it; end of the day, they still ended the studio that produced those games.
I'm pretty sure it has had an impact what simmers have done. It'll be why those higher up at EA try to hard to excuse themselves in interviews. It's been all over the press how this has been handled-as well as the legacy of SC2013 too. The common theme? Maxis and EA refusing to acknowledge their customers and arguing until they are blue in the face that the customer is wrong. Let's not forget the claim from Lucy Bradshaw that offline play was impossible. Only to have the modders prove they weren't accurate by doing exactly that. Then dropping the offline patch for everyone before shutting it down.
Yeah. And most people ignored it. EA continues to rake in the profits.
What exactly do you think is the solution?! How are people supposed to 'do more'?!
The community itself needs to be more cohesive in its stance. And needs to be a lot louder. So far, what I'm seeing are the standard complaint-style threads that went mostly ignored in the Sims 3 era. Not the massive flood of "oh plum no" to Sims 4 that followed the debut of SimCity and its failure, and which continued all the way up until Sims 4 was released to a degree.
Personally I think the reason they haven't bothered is because they've decided it's not cost effective to finish the base just in case it doesn't recapture those customers they alienated early on. Maybe the limitations of the engine because it was repurposed from online isn't fit to include what people are looking for. It's cheaper to ignore the issue in terms of development time and cost and then if they decide to go along with TS5 they can turn round and say 'we listened now-look what's back'. And because they made a new game made for a traditional sims game it would be cheaper than trying to reprogram something not made to accommodate those features.
Sometimes companies cut their losses. So far a lot if releases for TS4 follow the DLC pattern for the subscription service or what we were due in Olympus anyway-just without the online part. Windenberg was seen before release even. It may be they are making as much money as they can from TS4 before they move on.
Ultimately the problems were caused by EA/Maxis and responsibilities to fix it also lies with them. At no point is it a customers 'fault' for the decisions they make as a company.
TS4 is probably also in a bit of a holding pattern; they're stringing out the EPs and GPs because they need to make it last 5 years while they develop Sims 5. That could be why we get those so infrequently, and get a lot of SPs in the meantime. They only have so much content they can add, they know it, and they're trying to make it stretch. I've seen that happen too.
You won't find me arguing otherwise that Maxis caused the problems and that EA, now that Maxis is dead, has to fix them. But the success or failure of a game isn't just related to its problems. I've seen very, very good games die simply because no one wanted to play them, and crappy games become series because people bought them a lot for the gimmick they used. It is, to a degree, a two-way relationship. But a boycott takes it further than that.
If you want toddlers and want them to be noticed or added, just boycott the game yourself eventually the money, sales and complaining will increase so bad that they'd probably just give in
In reality, for every person who doesn't buy the base game there are at least 3 others who will. And I suspect all that will happen when the complaints increase and the sales decline, is that Maxis will drop the pc version of the Sims 4 like a hot potato and come up with a mobile/tablet version of The Sims similar to The Sims Freeplay, only it won't be based in real time, but it will be heavily quest based.
That's when Maxis becomes labelled a Mad Man and I'm sure no one is going to the phone app for Sims 4 or anything more, sims free play is just enough. That'd just be the end of the franchise... why would you continue supporting a franchise and there's well over tons of people for play in the game, but the play isn't added? instead they introduce," were limited, certain funds." then why develop this game? if you invest more then your sales would go up and you'd have enough money to fix your engine and the game. It's all business, they don't give no dam. Sims 3 got as much stuff on the 2nd going onto the 3rd year. Game lacks hell of bad.
My point is... your just saying deal with it because it might end the whole game? well Ig that's the case.
No, I'm not saying "deal with it", even though you think that's what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that realistically, a boycott won't work, since players keep buying the base game; either those players who couldn't afford it at the time of release, or waited until there was a sale, or new players who run across it online and decide to give it a go. Every one of those is a sale and money in EA's pocket.
And I'm also saying that EA's reaction isn't necessarily going to be: "Oops, we messed up, we'd better get to work on The Sims 5". If EA wants to move the game in another direction, then the decline in sales would be the perfect excuse for them saying that the fans have lost interest in the PC version so let's move on to the online mobile/tablet version. That's what I'm saying.
And you're right. If you want to make money, you have to be willing to spend money. EA needs to be willing to invest in this game if it wants the sales to go up and to see fans start liking the game again to the point where they're willing to spend the money on it again.
Some of us are still boycotting--at least 500 of us in this forum. And honestly, it's not even boycotting! We're just not buying a game we don't want! Please don't assume that we're all idiots who feel compelled to buy stuff we don't like If the numbers of fans buying the game is high because the fans like TS4, then that works out for EA--and it might result in massive disappointment for us in the long run for having to sit out this entire iteration, but high sales sure don't mean players who dislike the game are being suckered.
EA isn't getting a dime from me until I get improved family play and toddlers. I don't even play this game anymore (playing TS2). When they deliver the game that I enjoy, I will buy all of the EPs and SPs and GPs, and I will throw my full support into the game. For me this is the whole point of being a squeaky wheel about the family play and toddler issues. After all, why complain if there is no chance whatsoever of TS4 (or TS5) successfully carrying on this franchise?
Unfortunately, you're helping to kill the series.
What has EA done in the past with video game series that lost a lot of sales? It's killed them. Most video game companies do that. It's easier to just drop a series than to try to figure out where it went wrong. So, most just kill a failing series.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
But people *have* raised their voice. For a year and a half. People carried on hoping-advocated for the team-me included. I helped the team a great deal in my own time, communicatibg with the gurus and collating questionnaires they liked that they saw me write because they were neutral. Until RF and Peter Moore started the blame the customer excuses. If you are communicating and those in charge don't have their listening ears on what are customers meant to do?!
The boycott thread was way after the fact. People were *already* not buying and telling them why. They knew. They chose to ignore, ignore, ignore.
Why do you think people are so desperate?! I saw SC2013 and I see a lot of parallels. Go over to their forums and take a look. People are telling EA they want to buy but their refusal to address issues prevents that.
A boycott means nothing more than what people were already doing. You are stuck on a word. If EA are so daft to let that word sway them they have serious issues.
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about boycotting either
And a repeat of this headache of an argument. Here's the relevant posts on this thread, from him, about whether or not he was talking about boycotting:
His stance, as best as I can tell, is that what he's doing is not a real boycott, but actually is a boycott under the definition of the word "boycott." So whether or not he's talking about boycotting, as per his own words, literally comes down to how you define the word.
You are the one now saying that you meant that boycotting was pretty much not helping at all, but that you are ok with ppl not buying a game they don't want . I'm just saying the person you replied to literally said what he was doing wasnt boycotting, but simply not buying a game he doesn't want
And, yeah, that person and I discussed it a bit. I'm saying to not even use the word, since I bet EA employees just skim most of the posts and would ignore any posts where someone says they're boycotting... meaning his concerns would not get heard.
@TanyaRubirose and what have you seen people do? As someone who has been around for a long time I've seen some very effective and attention grabbing movements within the community. Not just the odd thread here or there. I've seen consistent 'oh plum no' moments a lot! I believe there has been an equivalent effort to the SC2013 fans and more.
You are more than welcome to bring something new to the table and ask for support. People will support you if they decide they agree with you and like the idea. But the way to get there is not to try to tear down everything and anything other people have tried first. People have done their best. That's all you can expect of them-and it's not fair to try to suggest otherwise. That's going to cause the opposite of community cohesion and sabotaging your own idea from the start.
@sparkfairy1 Part of my idea involves not using boycotts or even using the word to describe what you're doing.
Another important part is that I wouldn't be the one ultimately leading. Let's face facts: I'm terrible at it and I have some communication problems. I am exactly the person who shouldn't be leading.
Comments
People have not raised their voice on the level I'm talking about. Yeah, there's a lot of toddler threads... but at the same time, there's far more other threads, not even related to them. And an archive binge makes it look like it's pretty much stayed that way. The kind of voice raising I'm talking about? Majority of the threads would be about it.
So I'm talking about the community, mostly in unison, raising their voices as much as possible... far more than they are now.
Something interesting: A desperation tactic was exactly why the boycotts were done in the Sims 3 era. They didn't work. Just like they didn't work in the Sims 2 era. Just like it's not working now. It's a failed tactic.
And, fine, so we learn from what the SimCity community did wrong and don't repeat their mistakes and the mistakes of people in past Sims games. We know what doesn't work... so what hasn't be tried yet?
People haven't just tried in threads, they've tried writing letters, blogs, articles, etc etc etc. The community has been very creative in the way they've tried to communicate. It's been very clear from day one that their vision is all that matters to them.
But you know what? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. If EA are determined not to listen to the real issues then whatever the community does they'll ignore it. When their top level executives are so determined not to listen no one within the organisation will be able to do so. Those in charge pull the strings, they are who matter when it comes to authorising further development costs to correct issues and deal with them properly.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
The game has cas already.
Oh I don't know?
Maybe but it just seems unlikely now.
We will see I guess.
If EA is so determined to listen, then what is the point of the boycott or bothering to come back to this community? If it's a doomed community that will die soon, then why hang around here when there are less doomed communities elsewhere? Why participate in a boycott of any sort and keep up the hope things will improve when it would be far more sensible to walk away?
I still believe we can force them to listen. But it's going to take some serious, serious effort. But listening to you... I'm forced to ask why bother? If the series is so doomed, why should I waste my time trying to save it when I can just focus entirely on fun instead and let fate handle itself?
You're kinda making the whole boycott mess sound even more pointless than I portrayed it as. So, I'm stuck wondering even more why it was bothered with at all.
I think they meant CAST.
CAST
Do you mean Create a style tool?
They haven't decided whether they want toddlers in the game or not? What kind of 🐸🐸🐸🐸 is that? Now we costumers don't even get to word what we want? Either your comment is really really wrong or there is some weird stuff going on at EA.
Well maybe, but he can't buy a game he doesn't like. Honestly the thought came to my mind. The only reason why I bought this version of the sims is because its the ONLY game I play.
I already told you I don't believe in your assertion that it doesn't matter. I've worked tirelessly trying to get through to EA. I've put my time in to help them personally and encouraged others to help too. You are missing that entirely.
I'm here because as a customer I'm not allowing EA to claim that I walked away because I 'didn't want' a next generation sims game and telling them why I'm not buying. Walking away allows the excuses to wash. Sticking around shows that those excuses aren't accurate.
Honestly your arguments go in circles that make no sense here. I couldn't care less if you think it's pointless for people not to buy and communicate why. I'm not here to appease you. I'm here because this is the official EA forum and I invested in the game. So is everyone else who still has a tiny sliver of hope.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
And the kind of protest you're talking about, where you would see thread after thread slamming EA and having fans voice their displeasure at the new direction of the game probably wouldn't be tolerated here, as the rules seem to indicate that they're not about to put up with such nonsense and those threads would be deleted and the posters who make them put on warning.
You keep making these vague suggestions, and yet, the truth is, we fans/customers have made our displeasure known, only to have you accuse us of antagonizing the company, so we won't get what we want out of spite. Sorry, but I don't see any way to placate a company who is determined to go its own way and is willing to gamble that the fans will follow. It's not the first time they've gone off on tangents....do you, by any chance, remember when they took on Zynga on Facebook and lost? And when Zynga took them on and lost? EA was determined to take over Facebook and give Zynga stiff competition. And they lost out, big time.
But they're still after that social media market. Hence the change in tactics. It wouldn't matter if we all started buying again, if they're determined to shut down this franchise so that they can repurpose it for the mobile market, they'll do it.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
People really should keep reading after that post. I stated outright I have no problem with people simply not buying because they don't like it; boycotting the game is a different matter.
I'm not missing that entirely. From what you've told me, it amounted to nothing. I only have your words on what you've done on this. But from what I've seen, the community has not stood up as a whole in the way I suggested. Members of the community have stood up, but it's been piecemeal efforts; those will get nowhere. Just like they got nowhere in Sims 3 a lot of the time.
If they are going to say you didn't want a next generation game, do you honestly think they're going to care what you say on the forum? They'll take a look at the sales data and use that to make their argument. After all, what do you think speaks more for you... your posts on some forums, or the data of what you actually bought?
My arguments keep going in circles because we keep going right back around to the same exact things. Same exact tactics that never worked in the past. I even summarized my argument a few pages back to show that, yes, there's some actual nuance involved in the different aspects. And, it is possible for something to be both useless and a boon to someone; it just depends on what you are trying to use it for. This isn't a contradiction of logic, but a nuance of situation.
Now, you have yet to make your boycott make any logical sense. If you've gone through all of this effort already and EA hasn't listened to you... what makes you think EA will give a plum about what you say on here and not just use the sales data to argue you didn't want a next generation of the Sims? You know... exactly what they did with SimCity players?
Let's see what does Sims 4 offer - build mode, blue print, CAS - well none of that is going to help you in a mobile app - as let's face it mobile apps all look pretty much alike as I really don't see a lot different in looking at Sims Free Play app and looking at the new Sims 3 app - even with their newest introduction of the Sims 3 WA - Sims 3 just looks like free play with Sims 3 added eps in elementary school looking app games. Let's face it - apps look very much like dos games from 20 years ago at most.
So no Sims 4 has zero to offer the app world when the completed Sims 3 at least has lots of eps to add interest to a sims app - still just calling it Sims 3 I still see no difference in the Sims 3 version and the Freeplay one.
As far as Sims 4 goes - at its at least present state - if this game dies - it has no reason to be resurrected as a Sims app at all - when Maxis already has tons of material from Sims 3 to go and Sims 4 offers zilch. So if it dies it is because it could not reach the standards it needs to reach to first make a successful Sims pc game - as it really has no where to go from here until it either does something amazing or at least makes the changes to make it beloved by ALL the fans. This is where Maxis fails - when they stop caring what ALL the fans want and make just what they want and part of the fan base. You do not take away established game play and expect to keep the fans used to playing the game with that family play that have done so faithfully for the last 10 years and expect to hold on to them. That my friends is Maxis failure and not the fault of Sims players who cannot enjoy a game where their play style no longer exists or is supported. So don't blame your fellow players for not supporting a game you like, because to us the game is still empty and offers us NOTHING - just like Sims 4 offers mobile nothing.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I'm pretty sure it has had an impact what simmers have done. It'll be why those higher up at EA try to hard to excuse themselves in interviews. It's been all over the press how this has been handled-as well as the legacy of SC2013 too. The common theme? Maxis and EA refusing to acknowledge their customers and arguing until they are blue in the face that the customer is wrong. Let's not forget the claim from Lucy Bradshaw that offline play was impossible. Only to have the modders prove they weren't accurate by doing exactly that. Then dropping the offline patch for everyone before shutting it down.
What exactly do you think is the solution?! How are people supposed to 'do more'?!
Personally I think the reason they haven't bothered is because they've decided it's not cost effective to finish the base just in case it doesn't recapture those customers they alienated early on. Maybe the limitations of the engine because it was repurposed from online isn't fit to include what people are looking for. It's cheaper to ignore the issue in terms of development time and cost and then if they decide to go along with TS5 they can turn round and say 'we listened now-look what's back'. And because they made a new game made for a traditional sims game it would be cheaper than trying to reprogram something not made to accommodate those features.
Sometimes companies cut their losses. So far a lot if releases for TS4 follow the DLC pattern for the subscription service or what we were due in Olympus anyway-just without the online part. Windenberg was seen before release even. It may be they are making as much money as they can from TS4 before they move on.
Ultimately the problems were caused by EA/Maxis and responsibilities to fix it also lies with them. At no point is it a customers 'fault' for the decisions they make as a company.
Oh and by the way it's never been 'my' boycott. People make their own decisions and in the entire family thread I've supported those who like the game and those who don't. I've only ever encouraged open communication with EA/Maxis on what they as individuals want to see in the sims and I'm merely the original poster who took the time to try to give a play style I enjoy a voice somewhere without all the daft 'your opinion doesn't matter' business, judgements and ridiculous insults over nothing.
And you know what? People are really wonderful over there for respecting each other and I'm very grateful to have 'met' so many fellow customers who are interested in discussing the sims and what it means to them without unnecessary drama 'noise'.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
You're right I'm not going to be the hero to save this. I knew that at the start. Just like I know this is the last game of its kind, despite my wishes otherwise. But, I'm willing to fight a hopeless fight.
Yeah, I've read the forum rules. They're pretty much the Sims 3 forum rules with a couple of updates. If such threads would not be tolerated here... then why do they tolerate the toddler threads, which often do involve slamming EA and having the fans voice their displeasure at how the game has gone?
And, really, not liking the antagonism bit? Then study how businesses react to them. Saying a boycott is an antagonistic relationship isn't some accusation intended to disparage what you're doing; it's a simple fact of life due to how companies react to boycotts. Why do you think I kept bringing up those examples by other companies earlier in the thread? Or posting those pictures of boycotts done in person?
Except, boycotts don't work on video game companies. You can do a Google search for them; EA alone has around a couple dozen active at current. Not an exact figure simply because I got tired of clicking links. Yet, take one look at any of their games and tell me where one single boycott has accomplished what it's after.
If they're that determined to force this into a mobile game and there really is no hope... then why continue any effort to fight it? You know they'll ignore you. And there's other game companies out there and other communities. Even other Sims communities. And if there is enough hope for a tactic to be used, then why rely on one that you personally have watched fail in prior iterations and times when EA was more willing to listen?
I'm at least making some final effort to come up with something that hasn't been done a thousand times and failed, instead of simply arguing everything fails and so you might as well boycott.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :
1923-2016 mamie
Yeah, but he wasn't talking about boycotting either
That too. I mean there is very little we can do as buyers. I actually think those who boycot the game are way stronger than i am. I keep complaining about the game , but I own everything they have come out with. The only positive thing about this is that I can give my opinion about the new content cause I've experienced it myself.
Except I'm not arguing that anything everyone does amounts to nothing. The argument along those lines was made in this post. I'm arguing we need to try something the community hasn't done before very frequently.
And, yeah, they'll still try to spin it. Like they tried with SimCity. And it doesn't matter if you call them out on it; end of the day, they still ended the studio that produced those games.
Yeah. And most people ignored it. EA continues to rake in the profits.
The community itself needs to be more cohesive in its stance. And needs to be a lot louder. So far, what I'm seeing are the standard complaint-style threads that went mostly ignored in the Sims 3 era. Not the massive flood of "oh plum no" to Sims 4 that followed the debut of SimCity and its failure, and which continued all the way up until Sims 4 was released to a degree.
TS4 is probably also in a bit of a holding pattern; they're stringing out the EPs and GPs because they need to make it last 5 years while they develop Sims 5. That could be why we get those so infrequently, and get a lot of SPs in the meantime. They only have so much content they can add, they know it, and they're trying to make it stretch. I've seen that happen too.
You won't find me arguing otherwise that Maxis caused the problems and that EA, now that Maxis is dead, has to fix them. But the success or failure of a game isn't just related to its problems. I've seen very, very good games die simply because no one wanted to play them, and crappy games become series because people bought them a lot for the gimmick they used. It is, to a degree, a two-way relationship. But a boycott takes it further than that.
I do see that. Just like I saw it with SimCity. And I'm seeing many of the same tactics that didn't work.
And a repeat of this headache of an argument. Here's the relevant posts on this thread, from him, about whether or not he was talking about boycotting:
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14612410/#Comment_14612410
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14614815/#Comment_14614815
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14614960/#Comment_14614960
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14615152/#Comment_14615152
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14615317/#Comment_14615317
His stance, as best as I can tell, is that what he's doing is not a real boycott, but actually is a boycott under the definition of the word "boycott." So whether or not he's talking about boycotting, as per his own words, literally comes down to how you define the word.
You are the one now saying that you meant that boycotting was pretty much not helping at all, but that you are ok with ppl not buying a game they don't want . I'm just saying the person you replied to literally said what he was doing wasnt boycotting, but simply not buying a game he doesn't want
Actually, I first said it in this post: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/14612562/#Comment_14612562
And, yeah, that person and I discussed it a bit. I'm saying to not even use the word, since I bet EA employees just skim most of the posts and would ignore any posts where someone says they're boycotting... meaning his concerns would not get heard.
You are more than welcome to bring something new to the table and ask for support. People will support you if they decide they agree with you and like the idea. But the way to get there is not to try to tear down everything and anything other people have tried first. People have done their best. That's all you can expect of them-and it's not fair to try to suggest otherwise. That's going to cause the opposite of community cohesion and sabotaging your own idea from the start.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :
1923-2016 mamie
Another important part is that I wouldn't be the one ultimately leading. Let's face facts: I'm terrible at it and I have some communication problems. I am exactly the person who shouldn't be leading.