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Are you guys sure that you really want toddlers?
king_of_simcity7
Posts: 25,102 Member
OK before everyone gets excited, I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone, however I am curious to why so many people are still speculating that EP3 might be about toddlers, when it won't be out for months yet and no announcement will be made for a long time either.
The thing is, I see across these forums players saying they will not be happy until toddlers are added like they are some sort of 'given right' in the game. Yet lets look forward, and say toddlers where actually added, would you really enjoy playing with them? I mean, what can you do with toddlers other than teach to walk, talk, potty train and ready books. Ok, they might play with toys, they might be able to play with other toddler and they will make cute pictures but what else?
Will these toddlers be able to get a job? Go on a date? Get married and have kids of their own? Not while they are toddlers of course so aside from being cute, and they would certainly be an improvement from being a baby growing straight into a child, I can't really see what value they would give to a Sims game other compared to other life stages.
Now lets look at weather or not they are considered 'base content' and weather people should pay for them. I don't actually have much to say on that, they have never officially been regarded as base content, only other than they appeared in two previous Sims games. One popular suggestion is that if they ever came back in a 'Generations EP' then they could come for free in a patch. Ok cool, but then what would be the point in a Generations EP if you get toddlers for free anyway? A few interactions, a new town to play in and some clothing? Sounds more like a GP to me?
One of popular suggestion is that pre teens could come in an EP, so you get toddlers for free but to get the pre teens you have to pay for the EP. Sounds good for those who want them but now you have two life stages being made, that is twice the amount of coding to make the animations, twice the amount of testing ad twice the amount of time that will be needed to make such an EP, and why should a never been seen before preteen life stage be used to be a 'pull factor' to get people to buy an EP that would compensate toddlers being given for free?
Am I getting at something here?
Now I have been speaking to a lot of Simmers, there are many who have different opinions, some where disappointed with TS4 for a number of reasons and have long since moved on while others enjoy TS4 and do not even want toddlers in the game, nor do they want a Generations P to be thrown out just to appease people. A lot of players want a strong and stable game and to see other issues to be addressed first. I said this a few times lately but it seems that there are much more important things that need to be dealt with people more content is thrown out. Culling is an issue I see mentioned a lot and if that is an issue, then how would that be improved when you start throwing toddlers into the mix?
A lot of players are concerned about the 'silence' over the situation and there are some very good threads about that, but to be honest, I can't blame the devs to keep quiet on things. At the end of their day if they cannot talk about future content, then that is the way things are going to be. If I was a dev and working on a game, the last thing I would want to see every single time I go online is floods of messages from disgruntled players about content they want while at the same time I am also seeing compliments from happy players.
The way I see it is this, if you don't like a game, don't play it, no one is forcing you to buy any more content for that game. I have been disappointed by games before as well, Tomb Raider 2013 being one big kick in the teeth to me, yet their was a popular following so I just shrugged it off as not being the game from me and I moved on from it, loading up TS3 and all was well again
So my purpose of this thread is not to debate with anyone, but I clearly have a few things I want to say for a while, toddlers are not the be all and end off of The Sims, they are a minor life stage and if you cannot enjoy other aspects of the game, then I don't think you will enjoy the much more with toddlers either. If you are happy with TS4 however, I do apologise for the hate you must have top see every day. I do not play TS4 myself for my own reasons and I have stated my reasons before but I respect other people's opinions as we are all Simmers at the end of the day
Thanks for reading and if you are going to respond then please do so respectfully and refrain from attacking others if their points of view differ from your.
Happy Simming!
Peace
The thing is, I see across these forums players saying they will not be happy until toddlers are added like they are some sort of 'given right' in the game. Yet lets look forward, and say toddlers where actually added, would you really enjoy playing with them? I mean, what can you do with toddlers other than teach to walk, talk, potty train and ready books. Ok, they might play with toys, they might be able to play with other toddler and they will make cute pictures but what else?
Will these toddlers be able to get a job? Go on a date? Get married and have kids of their own? Not while they are toddlers of course so aside from being cute, and they would certainly be an improvement from being a baby growing straight into a child, I can't really see what value they would give to a Sims game other compared to other life stages.
Now lets look at weather or not they are considered 'base content' and weather people should pay for them. I don't actually have much to say on that, they have never officially been regarded as base content, only other than they appeared in two previous Sims games. One popular suggestion is that if they ever came back in a 'Generations EP' then they could come for free in a patch. Ok cool, but then what would be the point in a Generations EP if you get toddlers for free anyway? A few interactions, a new town to play in and some clothing? Sounds more like a GP to me?
One of popular suggestion is that pre teens could come in an EP, so you get toddlers for free but to get the pre teens you have to pay for the EP. Sounds good for those who want them but now you have two life stages being made, that is twice the amount of coding to make the animations, twice the amount of testing ad twice the amount of time that will be needed to make such an EP, and why should a never been seen before preteen life stage be used to be a 'pull factor' to get people to buy an EP that would compensate toddlers being given for free?
Am I getting at something here?
Now I have been speaking to a lot of Simmers, there are many who have different opinions, some where disappointed with TS4 for a number of reasons and have long since moved on while others enjoy TS4 and do not even want toddlers in the game, nor do they want a Generations P to be thrown out just to appease people. A lot of players want a strong and stable game and to see other issues to be addressed first. I said this a few times lately but it seems that there are much more important things that need to be dealt with people more content is thrown out. Culling is an issue I see mentioned a lot and if that is an issue, then how would that be improved when you start throwing toddlers into the mix?
A lot of players are concerned about the 'silence' over the situation and there are some very good threads about that, but to be honest, I can't blame the devs to keep quiet on things. At the end of their day if they cannot talk about future content, then that is the way things are going to be. If I was a dev and working on a game, the last thing I would want to see every single time I go online is floods of messages from disgruntled players about content they want while at the same time I am also seeing compliments from happy players.
The way I see it is this, if you don't like a game, don't play it, no one is forcing you to buy any more content for that game. I have been disappointed by games before as well, Tomb Raider 2013 being one big kick in the teeth to me, yet their was a popular following so I just shrugged it off as not being the game from me and I moved on from it, loading up TS3 and all was well again
So my purpose of this thread is not to debate with anyone, but I clearly have a few things I want to say for a while, toddlers are not the be all and end off of The Sims, they are a minor life stage and if you cannot enjoy other aspects of the game, then I don't think you will enjoy the much more with toddlers either. If you are happy with TS4 however, I do apologise for the hate you must have top see every day. I do not play TS4 myself for my own reasons and I have stated my reasons before but I respect other people's opinions as we are all Simmers at the end of the day
Thanks for reading and if you are going to respond then please do so respectfully and refrain from attacking others if their points of view differ from your.
Happy Simming!
Peace
Simbourne
28
Comments
I personally really do not care whether toddlers are added into the game or not. As far as the age group goes it was always the one I played around with the least and for my own personal gameplay style they were more of an annoyance than anything else - sure, I had the odd toddler here and there for the novelty but for the most part it was an age group I skipped.
However; there really is no denying they were staple to the franchise at this point and there should have been no question that they were going to be included. TS2 and TS3 both released with toddlers included in the base game so they had most definitely become base game content by this point. Not to mention the blatant lie that was told to simmers before the game came out concerning toddlers; to me it feels as though they were indeed supposed to be in the game but for whatever reason they were pulled before the game actually launched.
With this in mind and the general silence that has since followed it is only understandable that the people who did enjoy the gameplay toddlers provided are upset. They were lied to in the beginning, they still went ahead and bought the game in good faith that EA were going to patch them in later on (like they did with ghosts and pools) and so far there still isn't any sign of them coming back. I personally feel as though people are a bit too eager to get their hopes up or that they are putting too much faith into EA ("It'll be the next pack, I know it!") - BUT I am generally quite a cynical person so my line of thinking completely contradicts this kind of mentality so of course I am going to disagree with it.
I personally do not think any age group should be added into a game pack or expansion pack. When EA does this we get the issue where that age group feels under developed and never really gets expanded upon with future content - i.e. the Young Adult life state from TS2 was confined to a single segment of gameplay and never, ever got another update to it. EA only assumes every player has the base game, we've seen evidence of this before such as the cross-over items from Late Night and Showtime as well as the fact players were given two vampire life states. People say toddlers need to be patched in because if they're not then there's no point having them in the game at all. Imagine toddlers unable to wear weather-appropriate clothing when Seasons comes out, imagine toddlers not being able to snuggle up with the family dog or do anything at all with them; I feel this is the reality if toddlers are not patched in.
In the end, people here who want toddlers feel passionate about it. Yeah, you and I may not enjoy the gameplay they added in but that doesn't make them any less important and it doesn't hurt players like us to just skip over it but it benefits other players so, so much more. This isn't like other so-called features that are forced onto players whether they want them there or not, this is a totally optional age group that could be skipped over entirely with a click of a button.
I usually don't care that much about what EA chooses to release (barring the exception of that Katy Perry abomination, but hey even that pack had a audience and the very, very poorly marketed Get Together which has actually turned out to be a great EP) but I really do feel as though this is one of those things that just has to happen to right the wrong that never should have happened in the first place.
I know that toddlers cannot do much, other than toddler stuff, but i feel that they are a great aid for the bonding process. This is the stage i would become attached to my sims and i would enjoy their subsequent progression through the age stages after becoming so fond of them. It would also help my sims to develop their relationships more with the extra life stage. Baby to child is very jarring and makes a big feeling of loss in the game. Similarly, child to adult is too big a leap, cos - let's face it - teens are basically adults in this game.
To me, the natural progression for a new sims game - which is all about playing with life - would be to add more life stages to it. Each new version should have additional life stages to make aging less jarring and more natural, with less gaps.
As far as a generations ep is concerned, I would expect this to contain lots of different activities centred around the different age stages of the game rather than adding the new life stages, which should be patched in. Things like family portraits, family gatherings, wedding and anniversary parties, funeral wakes, camcorder videos, proms, parent and toddler groups, sleepovers, family board games, charades, tag, hide and seek, holiday celebrations, family vacations and lots of new interactions between every age.
The key things for me is parent/child bonding and growth and development.
The toddler stage was the bonding stage for my sims and their children. Babies are too young and the child stage is where they start forming their personalities and should be the beginning of working towards independence. No toddlers has really turned me off of playing families in TS4. That along with really old looking teens.
Perhaps EA needs to take a deeper look at how they approach toddlers. It should not be a life stage that you want to skip. The age stage should have a bit of neediness and annoyance, but it should be endearing enough to be worth it. There should also be more relationship and growth rewards for going through it. I want the attention given to toddlers, or lack of it, to make a difference in their life. I would like to see EA focus more on that and less on making them tiresome and annoying.
Those who want to skip the toddler stage should not be penalized for doing so, i.e. getting a bad trait or not being able to choose one, but they will miss out on the extra benefits of raising a happy and healthy toddler.
One benefit I would like to see is a reward that will not let your sim die from extreme emotions.
A well cared for sim during the toddler stage is emotionally balanced. Extreme emotions is not a life risk.
The Sims 2 is a good touchstone for toddlers. There were a lot of good parent/toddler interactions. What I don't want is them waking up an screaming every time. Just let them scream when they have good reason to. The things that simmers find annoying in toddlers should happen when your sim is being a really poor parent and the child's development should suffer accordingly.
I like teaching them to walk and talk, but I don't want it to feel like a grind. There should also be some benefits for teaching them. skilling for charisma and athleticism should get a boost.
If something has been there on the base game in the two previous games, then it's considered base game content. How would you feel if they would remove teens from the game and add them in a EP? I mean they aren't base game content are they? They have just been there in the previous two games anyway. And if toddlers get added via a free patch, it will include only the essentials like one crib, one toy, etc. In a Generations EP they can add a lot more. In TS3 they added strollers, among other things, and they released other toddler and baby objects on the store too. Preteens could definitely be a selling point on a Generations EP just because it's something new and something many people have been wanting for some time. So I can definitely see that happening.
Well, that's the thing. People will always want different things. That's why EA releases these packs with varied themes, because they have to cater to a big fandom that wants different stuff. Just because something doesn't interest you, it doesn't mean that thing shouldn't be released because there are a lot of people that may like it, so they deserve to be catered to as much as you and other people do. So I really don't get the point of this thread. All I'm getting from it is, "I don't see the point of toddlers, so I don't understand why they should be added to the game". If you truly want to know why toddlers are so important to many simmers, you just need to go to all the family/toddler threads and read the comments.
I can say that I haven't played this game for over a year because I'm still waiting for a family based EP to come out (with toddlers obviously). Once it does, you can be sure I will buy it and maybe even get back to the game and buy previous packs too. What is making me not play the game at the moment is the lack of family play, so that can be resolved with a Generations EP. I have other issues with the game, sure, but they aren't game breaking to me. So yes, this game will be better for me once we get toddlers and family play. Unless EA totally messes up. But if the toddlers will be as cute as the toddler on that render, then you can be sure I will play a household full of them.
I am playing TS4 quite happily without toddlers, but I still dearly want them. I always played them in TS2 and never thought of aging those cute tiny sims up early. Also with the babies being how they are in TS4, it really needs some little ones to play with.
Where I notice the hole in the life stages the most (apart from the jumping out of the crib into a child business) is when a family has a few children. Having a baby, a toddler and a child is just more realistic, and gives you more time with the little ones before they become teens. The way it is now, you have a family with 2 children (one who really should still be a toddler) and you also have a baby that will also be a child in a few days, just doesn't seem right.
A baby that can't be taken one step away from the crib, then turning straight into a self-sufficient child. I miss that life stage that needed and depended on being cared for, the potty training, the feeding, the playtime, the tucking into bed, the bath time. It is a big chunk missing for those that played toddlers through.
However, if I didn't enjoy the rest of the game as it is now, I would easily walk away from it. I walked away from TS3, and went back to TS2 with no problems (and still play TS2 actually).
In fact the feedback is so good, this thread has now been moved to... feedback...
I have been in many of a discussion with you and if you still fail to see what toddlers will add to this game for many of us then I'm actually upset you don't seem to have taken in anything that the entire family play thread has said (on which I see you regularly post.
It's not as easy as 'don't like it, don't play it' (as you very well should know) and if you think toddlers really are a minor stage then you (in my opinion) clearly haven't listened to the feedback given over the last however many months by many of us.
Sorry, but this thread has annoyed me, more so that its you that has written it. I feel you should know better or that my impressions of you were totally off base.
I'm actually a little shocked. Lol
--T
ETA: although I do agree - toddlers are the tip of the iceberg in problems this game has but adding hem would be the start, for many, to hopefully liking this game.
Seriously, it's not only the missing game play it's the fact they think long time players can swallow this lack of attention to detail and be happy with it. It's the fact they 'knew' from their own forums this was a very important life stage to everyone. Yes, some people don't like toddlers (play them) but I bet they don't actually like that jarring BAM 'you are now a ten year old kid' effect, either. As long as they could age up shortly with a cheat or an option to age to birthday.
It's a matter of principle on what was said, what has since been said and what isn't happening. But the number one answer from me is LIFE SIMULTATOR>>>immersion!
To me, personally: I don't like babies and toddlers, but this is a life simulation game, and it was kind of expected, as TS2 had introduced them. And the point of having ages, in terms of game design, should also be that different ages have different game play. Toddlers have different gameplay from kids, which are different from teens, and so on. Do you remember the teens in TS2? They had some unique aspects to them like the zits and the sneaking out at night. Teens in TS4 are equal to adults, even in appearence, except they can't woohoo.
TS4 was poorly designed, in my opinion, from day one. It's gameplay is focused in YA/A stages, and that was not the (whole) point of the The Sims, which had this sandbox aspect. Everything is made out of goals now. The neighbourhoods are pre-made and allow zero customisation. We have less one life stage, and the teens are almost equal to YA (so this limits gameplay even more).
Everything is limited in this game, even the most basic aspect that made the franchise a masterpiece ten years ago: generational play (culling, argh) and life stages.
So, getting back to the question, do toddlers change anything? I my view, no, they don't; the game is still limited. But I think people count on that because, by addind toddlers, they feel like the game is not as "Fixed" and limited as it appears, and that other features can be done if the players really want them. People want to trust the company, that's why they are relying so heavily on toddlers.
As for preteens... I don't get the point. what could preteens do that teens and children would not be able to? For me, they would be useless and a waste of resources. We really need teens that look like teens, not like adults.
I think though for those who dislike the game but brought it believing that they would be added in later (that are still around), it's a matter of principle. They've had toddlers for two iterations now. They brought it truly on faith that EA would come good and add them in later. Having done that EA now needs to fulfill their end of the deal (even if one wasn't actually made). It's why they brought it after all.
My personal belief is IF they come back (and yes, it's still if) they'll come as a GP or EP that you'll have to pay for. Whether that comes true or not, time will tell. I do wish people would stop hyping themselves up on it being in the next pack btw, but there we are.
(I didn't read your post - I hope you will forgive me for that - and I have to say that I never played TS3).
Yesss. I want toddlers. Why? Because it's a fundamental "step" in real life......
Sorry -- read these two parts, actually snorted laughing, and then proceeded to not take any of this seriously.
SHOOT, guys! Why did no one tell me my toddler wouldn't be able to make kids of their own, date or get a job? I wish I had known sooner.
I apologise if I annoyed you and I am aware of why players want toddlers in the game but I feel that there needs to be other things addressed before they start adding more content. If players want toddlers just because they want them then that is understandable but my concern is would they really enhance the game beyond being another life stage.
I can pretty much imagine that seeing a baby grow straight into a child removes the natural progression through those stages, and I certainly wouldn't want that in my game even though I am not an avid 'toddlerite' how ever there are other things players dislike about TS4 from the culling right down to increased focus on goals and RPG elements. Adding toddlers into the game would not remove the features and I actually think that even if TS4 did come with toddlers, I still think the other issues will still hold players back so my question is, do players really want toddlers in TS4? Considering that it may well be TS4 which is the issue, rather tan simply the lack of toddlers.
Hope that makes sense?
OP is notorious for stirring the pot, and my only guess as to why they are in the 'family play' thread is because it's the one place where there's basically no drama.
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I actually get along with a lot of Simmers on this forum. I post in the family play thread as I like the Simmers who also post in there and I enjoy seeing their pictures. I agree with most things they talk about and if I do not agree with something, I keep my opinions myself. I also post a lot in the TS3 GD and CAW sections a lot and again, I like most of the Simmer and agree with them. If I don't agree with someone, I simply respect their opinions and post elsewhere.
You're forever creating threads and usually end them with --'oh, please discuss nicely!' Because you know everything you bring up is controversial in some way. You love to stir the pot -- I can skim through half of your discussion topics in your profile and pick out exactly where you like to bring up these types of conversations.
But don't mind me. Just 'speaking up, speaking out and simming on!'
That was a minor joke...
What threads are these exactly?
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/859735/when-will-young-adults-actually-be-yas-and-not-big-kids-as-they-are-sold-as-now#latest
- A thread started about GT, stating you want to see less 'outright' partying and more just socializing -- when explained your ideas can come to fruition with the GT EP, it was blown off with a 'well I can do that with TS3'. Also wanted to complain about bush woohoo in a game you don't even own or have ever played.. again. So why start the thread?
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/860137/will-neighbourhood-editing-ever-be-an-option/p1
- A thread starting and stating within it, the 'TS4 players get nothing.' And then further derogatory comments regarding the development team, pretty much every comment after.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/864035/was-the-sims-a-victim-of-its-own-success/p1
- A thread started about the expectations of players now compared to what we have come from (since TS1) - even though in the previous thread, you were just slamming the development team for not adding in specific features.
These are just a few of the ones I have access to.. it would seem they cut off after a specific date.
By all means -- despite not having ever even tried the game, give it a good bash. Try to set everyone against one another by starting these topics by saying one thing during this discussion, and then something different during another.. but at least own up to it.
Have you got anything better to do that to derail my thread and try and dig through my old threads to catch me out? I have reported you BTW and I will not respond to you any longer.
Um yes. I want toddlers. Clearly.
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