October 23 - Everyone ready for the Friday Highlight? It's ready for you here.

Just put in toddlers already.

Comments

  • Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    They just need to put away the Netflix and Chill pack and work on what people actually want.

    Uh, some of us actually want Movie Hangout Stuff, so they are working on what people want, not what everyone wants because that's practically impossible.
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  • Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    @fullspiral Are you seriously implying that watching TV is more relevant/important to the sim life than an entire life stage? I'm sorry but if you are, then I have to disagree with you on that one.

    Yes TV's are sometimes used daily, but is that REALLY what we need? It's just funny to me because we already have TV's in the game, but we can't say the same thing about toddlers.

    I don't care about toddlers, but adding some stupid TV's is the last thing this community needs at this point of the game.

    It depends on the person, each Simmer chooses what's more relevant and/or more important to them, some thinks Toddlers are more relevant and important, some think watching TV with other Sims and having different reactions towards films is more important and relevant because people have differing opinions. Remember just as there are people who don't care about Movie Hangout Stuff, there are people who don't care about Toddlers.

    Well who chooses what we, people can only speak for themselves unless they're given permission by others to be spoken for. We have TVs sure but this Pack adds Movies(which were never available before), Popcorn and new animations whilst eating it(pretty new) as well as Sims interacting with other Sims about Movies and reacting to them with some exclusive interactions when watching specific movies with other Sims(which were never available before because we never got Movies before).

    Again, you can't speak for the entirety of the Community, each individual person of the Community has their own needs for the game, for some, adding TVs might be the last thing they need, for some adding Toddlers might be the last thing they need, it goes both ways.
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  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    fullspiral wrote: »
    And besides, this is the sims 4 forum. This is mostly where you will find those having fun with the game posting about it. I doubt you will find them in the sims 3 forum saying how bad that game is. Or interrupting threads bashing it.

    And this is way off topic so I will wrap it up with that.

    And back on topic, it would be nice to see toddlers come back to the game.

    You are missing something. This forum is for every customer. There should be no distinction between those who are happy or unhappy with the game according to @SimGuruDrake. This game is currently in development so people come here to voice what they want to see.

    Generally whether you like/dislike the game is irrelevant and shouldn't involve people being told to go away or being subject to comments to deter them from posting.

    TS3 is finished-there is no chance of further content or direction so it's a totally different situation. Going there to say what you want to see in the future would be pointless. Everyone knows that.
  • Prink34320Prink34320 Posts: 5,078 Member
    jackjack_k wrote: »
    jackjack_k wrote: »
    Astro wrote: »
    Toddlers aren't made in a day, they'll be put in (imo) eventually.

    If they put toddlers in the game from the beginning, this wouldn't be a problem. Don't even try to make excuses for their laziness. The developers originally even said that toddlers were gonna be included in the base game, but took them out pretty much at last minute because it was "too hard".

    Suggesting that "toddlers aren't made in a day" as a reason for them not being in the game is just a lazy excuse for them. The Sims 2 and Sims 3 had them in the base game from day one. There are no valid excuses for them not being in The Sims 4 other than the fact that the developers are just lazy and don't care.

    Wrong. Oh so ignorant and wrong.

    The original game that EA wanted them to develop was an online game with Young Adults, that meant you could hang out with people online and chat to them, via the Sims.

    When SimCity got a bad rep for being online, EA changed the development into The Sims 4, and gave devs a YEAR and two months to change it into a full Sims game. The devs wanted to add Toddlers, but didn't have time to add them before the deadline.

    The CEO of EA also said he would not green light any games unless they were online, and Maxis had no choice but to make an online social if they wanted the green light to start development.

    It's not laziness at all by the devs. It's EA giving them a year to turn a game into something it was never supposed to be in less than half the time that the Devs had to work on Sims 2 and Sims 3.

    And they do care. If you didn't know, EA decide the "concept" of what content they should add to the game, because Devs only develop what EA green lights. Which is why EA sends out the Survey's to fans of what they want to see in the game, not the Developers.

    ----

    These are the same (for the most part) devs who always took feedback and tried their best to please fans during the Sims 2 and Sims 3 (even if the Sims 3 was a technical mess). To even think they suddenly stopped caring is ignorance at best. Look at the full picture. We even know half of this information straight from people who worked on the game and are no longer working on it.

    Trust me, I know about the whole thing with EA deciding to make a spin off title into a main Sims game. They knew it would make a lot more money if they slapped "The Sims 4" on there instead. That's probably what they did with SimCity too. This is how EA works. I know this already.

    I disagree with your idea that the developers even wanted toddlers in the first place. If that was true, then how come we still haven't gotten them? You would think they'd be on their priority list if they truly "wanted to add toddlers" before the 'deadline'. I just think they wanted to completely skip that life stage all along. Rachel Franklin herself even admitted that removing them was "the best idea for the game yet". That certainly doesn't make it sound like they actually WANTED toddlers. I think that's enough proof that they probably purposely skipped toddlers.

    Also, Sims 3 wasn't a "technical mess" at all. It depends on your PC. But, that's not the point here, so I won't spend time to argue about that.

    You do understand gaming development right? Developers only develop what EA gives them the budget for. If EA decides one feature is worth more investing in than another, then guess what? Developers won't get to develop them. Even if they REALLY want to.
    EA has decided (and confirmed via Survey) that Toddlers would only be developed alongside a Generations EP (and probably patched in). EA pays their wages, and decides what concepts they go with. Devs work around these concepts and come up with ideas for them.

    And once again, someone misquotes Rachel;
    So absolutely, I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff.

    So she already says it was the best decision at the time, and she's not talking about future stuff. She also said;
    Toddlers are not simply small Sims, they are a completely separate Sim type, deserving of the same level of investment. We want to do it well

    Her argument is, it was the best decision not to include them, because they want to do them well, and rushing them for release date would have meant they could have ended up worse than babies.
    Not that they are happy the lifestage isn't in the game. It's all about quoting everything or not at all.

    ---

    And the Sims 3 IS a technical mess. It only works on a select few video cards, and nearly all new Mac's can't run the game, and nearly all new video cards are unrecognized by newer PC's and run terribly (even LifeSimmer who has a really good PC, just had to edit half her files just to get the game to RUN and even then it's on a lower setting). Because the game doesn't recognize hardware on nearly every card older than 2012.

    And trust me, EA would not release an emergency patch due to the recent backlash of the game not working on new PC's and Mac's, and advise to only select "a few packs at a time" if it ran like a IT dream. It just doesn't and only a few video cards still run the game properly.

    I'm not going to argue the point, because EA have admitted it themselves and are trying to do damage control so they can still sell it.

    Rachel Franklin's comments still heavily implied that she was very happy with excluding toddlers. Again, she's ruining the franchise. She also said that the closets are her favorite feature in 'Get Together'... I think that pretty much summarizes it. The closets were even being promoted as a key feature for the expansion pack. That's honestly just sad.

    Sims 3 isn't a mess at all. That's only your opinion. It's hilarious how I constantly get attacked for saying how terrible Sims 4 is, but you can sit there and tell me how much of a "mess" Sims 3 is. It's actually ironic. When I insult The Sims 4, it needs to be an opinion. But, if you all wanna attack Sims 3, it's suddenly "factual". Sims 3 is an amazing game. Get over it. It's a lot better than Sims 4 and probably always will be. Even after over a year of being released, Sims 4 is still horrible.

    It doesn't heavily imply it in my opinion, she doesn't state her personal opinion about Toddlers themselves, just the decision of removing them when they made that decision. That's all down to perspective again, she's bringing the franchise to life for many people as she's ruining it for some, it's impossible for everyone to be happy with where she takes the franchise, I don't envy her. Sad how? I recall The Sims 3: Generations having a Bachelor Party(a single Social Event) as one of it's key features, as well as The Sims 3: University Life having the Bonfire as one of it's key features. It's not the first time an Object has been highlighted as a key feature of an Expansion Pack and I doubt it will be the last.

    Well you know how some of us that enjoy The Sims 4 feel, getting attacked and accused of working for EA or being paid to say nice things as well as being name-called "Sheep", "Cheerleaders" to name a couple. Well insults are just opinions... saying anything bad about The Sims 3 is also based on opinion, as different perspectives see the game in different ways. I find it ironic how you glorify The Sims 3 and call The Sims 4 horrible without using a personal pronoun like Jack didn't when saying The Sims 3 is a mess, it makes it sound like what you're saying is what you think to be fact and not derived from your own opinion. For me The Sims 3 is an amazing game, I don't care whether people see it as a mess, I enjoyed it, and just cause I like The Sims 4 more doesn't mean I don't like The Sims 3(Not that you implied that). "Get over it" Would you like people saying that to you about Toddlers not being in the game? To me, all The Sims games are great, but The Sims 4 is my favorite and I love it more than almost any other PC game I've played, that's my opinion just as stating one game is better than the other or stating a game's quality is only an opinion.
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  • gmomasuegmomasue Posts: 647 Member
    Toddlers to me are a big missing link in Sims 4 that needs to be put in . Sims can be family oriented, but how can they be that when . Babies are chained to the crib and no toddlers . They need to add them and soon .
  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 2,903 Member
    edited January 2016
    This is what I've thought since the beginning. EA knows hows desperately some people want to see toddlers and although they make a point of saying they cannot talk about future content I think this is such a huge issue that they would talk if toddlers were going to return. If only to say they're being worked on. That they're not saying anything leads me to believe toddlers will not return in the Sims 4. As much as I'd love to see them return I'm not holding my breath.
    I'm probably going to kick myself later for mucking with people accepting that toddlers may never be in the game, but the intellectual honesty part of me has no bias for anything but intellectual honesty: The logic being used is incomplete and thus, poor.

    Let's look at what Stdlr9 said:
    1. If toddlers were coming, that would be a HUGE draw and EA would let people know since that would keep Simmers buying and buying.
    2. If toddlers are not coming, EA risks alienating a sizable portion of gamers and their wallets, so it would be better, business-wise, to say nothing.

    a) This whole thing assumes that EA knows if/when they will add toddlers. There is most likely the possibility of toddlers being added (see Rachel Franklin's comment in the interview "I feel like it’s the best decision for the game to date. I’m not talking about future stuff."). But to say for sure that they are coming at some point is obviously a bad idea, unless they can say that toddlers are deep into development and are on track to be released within a few months (even then, it may be too far off, due to the fickle nature of development); the intensity of opinion about them is why. If they were to confirm toddlers will be in the game at some point for sure, but it then took them two years more of updates to reach toddlers as a priority, people would be going berserk and saying that they lied to lead people on, for the next two years, and that they can never trust them again. That would be bad for PR and bad for the playerbase.

    b) Although the conclusion in point 2 is sound in a vacuum, there is no actual evidence to indicate that toddlers will never come (see A). Furthermore, saying that a certain type of content will never come is usually foolish, regardless of what it is. Priorities shift and evolve, data points change, and just about any feature idea could become the next one that seems like the best decision at the time. It's not just about alienation and wallets; it's game design and business. There is a difference, for example, between saying, "We have no plans for X at this time" and "X will never be in the game." To summarize: It's a better decision, business-wise, to never say never in this kind of situation, regardless of what the idea is. Short of ideas like "turn The Sims into an FPS" (I just pulled out the most absurd thing I could think of) most stuff is within the realm of possibility.

    In other words, I doubt you are ever going to hear a flat out "never in a million years" kind of answer about anything, unless it's something that changes the entirety of the game's foundations. But such ideas would probably just be ignored anyway.
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  • HIFreeBirdIHHIFreeBirdIH Posts: 1,410 Member
    For me, I think we'll know by the end of this year if toddlers are coming. If they're not in, I think we can assume that they aren't going to be here. If they're in, then that speaks for itself. And I think they would only announce toddlers when they're absolutely sure nothing bad's going to happen. You wouldn't want them to announce them and then, oops! Something happens and they can't add them in. That we would be a huge crushing blow to the fan base.
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  • SimGamer15SimGamer15 Posts: 2,019 Member
    I agree that the sims team is lazy.
  • mrln1975mrln1975 Posts: 176 Member
    I don't understand how they got rid of them anyway. Because a small margin of people did not want them. So they delete them entirely. There was a button to age them up instantly. Not any more you lost that control.Lifeless game. Lifeless game. All I have to say.
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  • HaidenHaiden Posts: 3,840 Member
    What confuses me is they mention telemetry. So did that info tell them people don't play with toddlers? Cause from what I remember Ts3 was offline, (well I never connected to the net when I played) So where did the information come from. I remember the Ts3 forums were full of pics/topics/legacies threads, mostly centered around family play. I mean I was on the Ts3 forums from the first day it went live. . . .am I missing something? People were always asking for more stuff for toddlers and children. The toddler store sets were also very popular.

    It confuses me as to where they actually pulled their telemetry from. Does anyone perhaps know?
  • AstroAstro Posts: 6,128 Member
    I agree that the sims team is lazy.

    The assumption that the sims team is 'lazy' as opposed to, oh I don't know, money and resource constraints makes you sound pretty ignorant.


  • luthienrisingluthienrising Posts: 33,252 Member
    mrln1975 wrote: »
    I don't understand how they got rid of them anyway. Because a small margin of people did not want them. So they delete them entirely. There was a button to age them up instantly. Not any more you lost that control.Lifeless game. Lifeless game. All I have to say.

    You can't get rid of something you didn't develop. And developing toddlers involves a lot more than ticking "yes" on a box. It's a very design-intensive, development-intensive, coding-intensive process. There are decisions to make, and those are time-consuming: What will be the size of the new character meshes needed, compared to the current ones? What abilities will this character group have? What traits, and how should those traits affect behaviour and animation changes? What things that they can do should they be able to do with multitasking? With which other characters and objects will they be able to interact, and how? Then all those design decisions have to developed and coded.

    Every project is going to have a design/development budget (that's a budget in person hours, in development resources, and a deadline as well); no such budget permits one to do everything. Every project requires choices be made, and those choices have to be made within the context of that budget, not only the context of desired gameplay and desires of potential purchasers. I agree that they might not have made the best choice, but I also don't know what I'd have wanted to give up that would be equally resource-intensive, all told.

    We don't know that a small margin of people did not want them, or didn't play with them before. You and I have no access to behind-the-scenes data. All we can know is anecdotal: lots of people motivated by toddlers' absence now are motivated enough to speak up. Is that a majority? Who knows! We don't.

    Anyway, to me, the game is full of life, just short one short life stage. I'm looking forward to adorable toddlers being added, making the game full of even more life. Then maybe the team can put their attention to bringing more vibrancy to Elders, who live lots longer in game and have always been neglected.
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  • PrincessSaturnPrincessSaturn Posts: 564 Member
    Astro wrote: »
    I agree that the sims team is lazy.

    The assumption that the sims team is 'lazy' as opposed to, oh I don't know, money and resource constraints makes you sound pretty ignorant.

    Then they need to prioritize. Instead of creating ice cream machines and hot tubs, they should make a lifestage that has been in the last 2 games.

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  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,392 Member
    edited January 2016
    I'm seriously expecting pigs flying gifs if they ever return. XD I'm not holding my breath. Sims 4 has treated life stages in general badly and that isn't even counting the lack of toddlers.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
  • AstroAstro Posts: 6,128 Member
    Astro wrote: »
    I agree that the sims team is lazy.

    The assumption that the sims team is 'lazy' as opposed to, oh I don't know, money and resource constraints makes you sound pretty ignorant.

    Then they need to prioritize. Instead of creating ice cream machines and hot tubs, they should make a lifestage that has been in the last 2 games.

    I don't think you'd want the same team that creates stuff packs to make toddlers. ;)

  • AlisonCuteSimsAlisonCuteSims Posts: 165 Member
    edited January 2016
    @Prink34320 I wasn't speaking on behalf of the entire community, you can go ahead and support EA because its YOUR money not mine. I was speaking on behalf of those that have wanted toddlers since the day TS4 released.

    As I've said before you can like it all you want. But in my honest opinion, I don't understand why EA adds these things to an unfinished game. It's like adding the icing to a cake that hasn't even been baked yet!

    You can support EA all you want, but I won't! :smile:
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  • KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,676 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I think it's perfectly fine to express opinions about the games, that's what we're here for isn't it? I just wonder why it's necessary to always use superlatives (horrible, terrible, a mess, a nightmare; or, the best ever, perfect, it blows the others out of the water; as if there's no in between) and to phrase that opinion as if it's a fact. And to state it even when the opinion isn't the topic. Some opinions seem to be so dominant, that they have to be let out on a regular basis, as if the owner of the opinion will explode when that doesn't happen. Like a dog that has to be walked a few times a day to do its business.
    I agree with this. I really don't like the extreme ends. My personal feelings are I don't think Sims 4 is the best, but I don't think it's the worst either. I think it's decent, and I do enjoy reading Sims 4 stories (mostly recently, I read Frenemies, and it inspired me to start a story of my own in the game).
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 32,163 Member
    SimFan298 wrote: »
    I don't want to anger people want now, but Maxis, just put toddlers back in. I'm getting sick of people begging for them constantly. (No offense to anyone. Not trying to start a fight.)

    I haven't seen a demand or a request for toddlers in months. There might be an old topic pop back up now and then, but family players haven't been writing any requests for them in months. I think they stick to the one big thread, so why do this when no one has been saying much about toddlers but discussing all the problems with this game that toddlers won't fix. I think they gotta fix the interactions and traits and emotions before they go adding a new life stage that will be a mini adult in shrink size.
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  • PrincessSaturnPrincessSaturn Posts: 564 Member
    Astro wrote: »
    Astro wrote: »
    I agree that the sims team is lazy.

    The assumption that the sims team is 'lazy' as opposed to, oh I don't know, money and resource constraints makes you sound pretty ignorant.

    Then they need to prioritize. Instead of creating ice cream machines and hot tubs, they should make a lifestage that has been in the last 2 games.

    I don't think you'd want the same team that creates stuff packs to make toddlers. ;)

    Don't address me in yours posts again, thanks.
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  • HIFreeBirdIHHIFreeBirdIH Posts: 1,410 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I'm seriously expecting pigs flying gifs if they ever return. XD I'm not holding my breath. Sims 4 has treated life stages in general badly and that isn't even counting the lack of toddlers.

    If/When they return, you can be positive that there will "I told you so's" all over the forum. Honestly I just hope this place doesn't implode. :tongue:
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  • KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,676 Member
    Scobre wrote: »
    I'm seriously expecting pigs flying gifs if they ever return. XD I'm not holding my breath. Sims 4 has treated life stages in general badly and that isn't even counting the lack of toddlers.

    If/When they return, you can be positive that there will "I told you so's" all over the forum. Honestly I just hope this place doesn't implode. :tongue:
    I'm pretty sure no matter what happens, whether toddlers come or they don't, this forum will be one fuse away from an explosion.
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  • AstroAstro Posts: 6,128 Member
    Astro wrote: »
    Astro wrote: »
    I agree that the sims team is lazy.

    The assumption that the sims team is 'lazy' as opposed to, oh I don't know, money and resource constraints makes you sound pretty ignorant.

    Then they need to prioritize. Instead of creating ice cream machines and hot tubs, they should make a lifestage that has been in the last 2 games.

    I don't think you'd want the same team that creates stuff packs to make toddlers. ;)

    Don't address me in yours posts again, thanks.

    I'm sorry, but I only 'adressed' you after you quoted me. /eyeroll

    Do me a favor and put me on ignore.

  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 2,903 Member
    edited January 2016
    Cinebar wrote: »
    SimFan298 wrote: »
    I don't want to anger people want now, but Maxis, just put toddlers back in. I'm getting sick of people begging for them constantly. (No offense to anyone. Not trying to start a fight.)

    I haven't seen a demand or a request for toddlers in months. There might be an old topic pop back up now and then, but family players haven't been writing any requests for them in months. I think they stick to the one big thread, so why do this when no one has been saying much about toddlers but discussing all the problems with this game that toddlers won't fix. I think they gotta fix the interactions and traits and emotions before they go adding a new life stage that will be a mini adult in shrink size.
    I guess you haven't been opening the same threads I have. I see mention of them all the time. I feel like it's on the level of Godwin's Law on this forum.

    "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving 🎃🎃🎃🎃 or 🎃🎃🎃🎃 approaches."

    Adjusting for here: "As a Sims 4 discussion grows longer, the probability of toddlers being mentioned approaches."

    Edit: Really? It censored those words? Come on man... anyway, people can look up Godwin's Law to understand what I'm referencing. Yeesh..
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  • TarruviTarruvi Posts: 1,227 Member
    Triplis wrote: »
    Cinebar wrote: »
    SimFan298 wrote: »
    I don't want to anger people want now, but Maxis, just put toddlers back in. I'm getting sick of people begging for them constantly. (No offense to anyone. Not trying to start a fight.)

    I haven't seen a demand or a request for toddlers in months. There might be an old topic pop back up now and then, but family players haven't been writing any requests for them in months. I think they stick to the one big thread, so why do this when no one has been saying much about toddlers but discussing all the problems with this game that toddlers won't fix. I think they gotta fix the interactions and traits and emotions before they go adding a new life stage that will be a mini adult in shrink size.
    I guess you haven't been opening the same threads I have. I see mention of them all the time. I feel like it's on the level of Godwin's Law on this forum.

    "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving 🎃🎃🎃🎃 or 🎃🎃🎃🎃 approaches."

    Adjusting for here: "As a Sims 4 discussion grows longer, the probability of toddlers being mentioned approaches."

    Edit: Really? It censored those words? Come on man... anyway, people can look up Godwin's Law to understand what I'm referencing. Yeesh..

    I've read up on Godwin's Law, and there is something I don't understand. Forgive me for not understanding, I'm open to enlightenment.

    Is it: As Time goes on, the mention of Toddlers in the Forums grow? :o
  • ScobreScobre Posts: 19,392 Member
    edited January 2016
    Scobre wrote: »
    I'm seriously expecting pigs flying gifs if they ever return. XD I'm not holding my breath. Sims 4 has treated life stages in general badly and that isn't even counting the lack of toddlers.

    If/When they return, you can be positive that there will "I told you so's" all over the forum. Honestly I just hope this place doesn't implode. :tongue:
    LOL that is true too. Yeah I think it might be like with pools or family trees. Forums will explode, then start going down to somewhat normal again. Forums and social media tend to go through different waves of emotions anyway depending on what patches and pack releases are mostly.
    “Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
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