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From Sim culling to Relationships culling!! What is going on EA?

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  • ModerateOspreyModerateOsprey Posts: 4,875 Member
    Ha ha. Neurological condition where they sit on the pot thinking about the Sims they have forgotten?

    Yes, known to the local sim doctors as 'Groundhog Day Syndrome'

    I never heard it put more politely. :smiley: I won't expound further... or they will close the thread.

    I think I may have it :scream:
    Goldmoldar wrote: »
    I have no problems with mods that enhance the play, but why should players depend on third parties to fix the game when it should be EA/Maxis fixing their own game. Same thing was happening with SimCity 2013, people was waiting for the modders for their fixes.

    This new relationship culling is a "feature", not a bug. True, it seems to be a bit buggy and hopefully they will work on it, but maybe in general it's the best they can do with what they've got to work with. The game apparently can't handle so many sims and relationships, so to keep it functioning to the level they've targeted for low end PCs this is what they came up with.

    When you just flat out don't like certain game design decisions, to the point where you don't even want to play any more, there might be no other choice than to use a mod that changes it.

    I'm all for inclusiveness, but there comes a point where it is up the player to make sure they can meet the system requirements of a game that they want to play. That is assuming that this brutal nerf is related to performance.

    I can't lay my hands on any references, but someone mentioned in a thread that there was some dynamic performance tuning going on as well that was introduced with the patch, so if the game thinks your machine hasn't got the grunt, then certain things are toned down - I think the number of sims allowed on a lot was one of them. Someone else may know more.

    Personally, I would like these in some kind of options, so I can do my own tweaking.

    I wonder if that's related to the 64-bit option introduced in the patch -- if you're running 64-bit you'll have busier lots than if you're only on 32-bit. I haven't noticed any difference in lot population since the GT patch like some players have, other than being tuned to time of day (library emptying out at 9pm, nightclubs getting busier about 5pm or so).

    Possibly. I am not even sure what version I am running on - I haven't specifically selected anything, it patched, I played, but haven't noticed any drops in the number of sims either. Mind, I have been running a mod since Sunday that increases the number of sims on my lots, so my lots are really busy. I have relationship culling disabled and I have noticed no performance issues whatsoever and my machine is a fairly modest gaming PC.

    I first became aware of the relationship culling when I found that all the sims in my clubs had to reintroduce themselves to each other every time I had them gather. I genuinely thought something was badly broken with my save
    Awake.
    Shake dreams from your hair
    My pretty child, my sweet one.
    Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
    The day's divinity....
    The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
  • PHOEBESMOM601PHOEBESMOM601 Posts: 14,595 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    @ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
    I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.

    One thing that bugs me is when NPC Sims my Sim has met die, and their ghost portraits remain in the relationship panel for what seems like forever. If this relationship culling gets rid of the ghost Sims first, I'll be fine with it.

    A way to mark Sims in the relationship panel, short of getting to the Friend level, would be awesome. I've toned down the Friendship decay to 0 percent with MC Command Center, and hopefully that will help -- I'll just make sure my Sims have a few close friends instead of trying to get them to know the whole town.

    I'm glad that's fine with you but what about the players who have been upset with their ghosts being culled for almost a year now?
    "People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
  • Ceres_MeirionaCeres_Meiriona Posts: 5,006 Member
    bekkasan wrote: »
    I'm very sorry to hear that they have introduced new features that are making more people unhappy with the game. You would think at least one dev might stand up and say 'how are the fan's going to like this feature or change in the way it affects game play'. I do hope they at least listen to y'all and fix this particular 'feature'.

    I honestly don't think they intended for the feature to behave so dramatically. I'm curious to know if there is something causing the relationship culling (like the over spawning NPCs that were causing genealogy culling to trigger before the Dec 4 patch).

    It's frustrating, though, regardless of the cause. I hope they listen too!
    tumblr_oesik08PQO1vorh5do6_1280.jpg
  • applefeather2applefeather2 Posts: 4,003 Member
    I can't believe we are actually talking about an expansion pack that is geared to groups -- where the members of the group cannot remember each other!
    *boggled mind*
  • AyumapAyumap Posts: 3,425 Member
    edited December 2015
    Ayumap wrote: »
    It is a shame because I had actually heard positive things about GT from some players but this itself is another set back.

    Culling wouldn't work for me in TS3, I have around 500 Sims in one save including NPCs so any limit would be a serious no for me.

    But as for relationship culling, what is the actual purpose? I mean, if Sim culling is 'for performance' then what is the benefit of relationships being culled. If the game had no issues with relationships before then why now?

    Just another kick in the teeth really isn't it?

    :disappointed:

    I'd assume it's for performance improvement as well, similar to how having items in a sims inventory can increase load times. I'm guessing though idk for sure. I don't think this method should be "forced" on players though. We should really be able to pick and choose in the settings how we want the game to run with a recommended/default status that can be adjusted. This game is great for rotational play, but they keep doing things that (imo) hurt the rotational player.

    I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems :/

    I really don't know. The sims 4 is programmed differently, they seem to be trying to push optimization over all else even at the expense of fun game play (for some). I can't sit here and pretend like (some) people who played the Sims 3 didn't have issues handling all the sims and the open world. I personally have a pc that can handle the sims 3 just fine, but even I can tell it is poorly optimized.

    I think this is a programming issue though because I know I've mentioned this before (as have others) games like GTA run so well on my pc (max settings) that it feels to be preforming better than the Sims 4. I also play mmos just fine that have open worlds, thousands of monsters and players, as well as various (as well as huge) animations.

    Maybe the engine just doesn't handle these types of things well, I can't be sure. Hopefully though this was just an oversight because I seriously feel like who ever green-lit this doesn't actually play the game.
    2m60a6q.jpg
    *There's nothing wrong with loving the Sims 4, there's also nothing wrong with seeking improvements.
    A list of Mods I use.|My Sims 4 Mod and CC "Master" post. Helpful Links included.
  • rudy8292rudy8292 Posts: 3,410 Member
    I really get a feeling they're thinking everyone is playing this game on a VERY old system. They always use performance as an excuse for everything.

    Yet all the people with decent and high end gaming PC's suffer from this mess. This game will never progress when they keep using ''performance'' as an excuse. It's not like you'll never have to upgrade your PC's ever.........
  • SarahsShadySarahsShady Posts: 963 Member
    I can't believe we are actually talking about an expansion pack that is geared to groups -- where the members of the group cannot remember each other!
    *boggled mind*

    I've been thinking the same thing. How can sims "Get Together" when they are constantly being culled apart. Super annoying and way too hard to keep up with. I also cannot stand how they can only have 1 best friend.
    This game in general, just angers me 90% of the time...
    giphy.gif

    Please Bring Back Toddlers, Realistic Teenagers and Create a World.
    Make the Sims (4) Great Again<3

  • ModerateOspreyModerateOsprey Posts: 4,875 Member
    I can't believe we are actually talking about an expansion pack that is geared to groups -- where the members of the group cannot remember each other!
    *boggled mind*

    ^ This, so much this:

    642.gif

    Awake.
    Shake dreams from your hair
    My pretty child, my sweet one.
    Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
    The day's divinity....
    The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
  • AyumapAyumap Posts: 3,425 Member
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    @ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
    I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.

    This would be glorious! I'd like to be able to manually delete sims from my relationship panel. Especially NPCs that have aged and are now ghosts.

    @Ceres_Meiriona I think this should be possible with testingcheats true enabled. (I mean I think they should make that a reality, not that it exists already). That said you can do this with mc cmd center.
    2m60a6q.jpg
    *There's nothing wrong with loving the Sims 4, there's also nothing wrong with seeking improvements.
    A list of Mods I use.|My Sims 4 Mod and CC "Master" post. Helpful Links included.
  • rudy8292rudy8292 Posts: 3,410 Member
    The Sims 4 'Get Culled Together' They needed 3 words for the title. Get to Work - Get Culled Together.
  • jimmysnanjimmysnan Posts: 8,303 Member
    Ayumap wrote: »
    I really, really don't want to have to rely on mods. I'm not against mods, but I don't want to NEED them.

    This is how I feel too. In the beginning I had so many issues with this game and people would tell me "just use mods"... I hated that. I never wanted to use script mods because the game is unfinished and these mods can go unsupported and cause issues (loss of game play elements) when you have to remove them, temporarily or permanently.. I don't like that.

    Sadly I think that's just the way things are going to continue to be. There are going to be things we want or dislike and we'll have to rely on our mods. I'm really grateful for the modding community because I could not play (personally) without the mods I have.

    I had to use Twallen's mods all the time in TS3 in order for the game to play so I think that the modding community is an asset to all the sims games, and to share their expertise for free is mind-blowing great in my opinion!
  • LogisitcsLogisitcs Posts: 1,156 Member
    Ayumap wrote: »
    Ayumap wrote: »
    It is a shame because I had actually heard positive things about GT from some players but this itself is another set back.

    Culling wouldn't work for me in TS3, I have around 500 Sims in one save including NPCs so any limit would be a serious no for me.

    But as for relationship culling, what is the actual purpose? I mean, if Sim culling is 'for performance' then what is the benefit of relationships being culled. If the game had no issues with relationships before then why now?

    Just another kick in the teeth really isn't it?

    :disappointed:

    I'd assume it's for performance improvement as well, similar to how having items in a sims inventory can increase load times. I'm guessing though idk for sure. I don't think this method should be "forced" on players though. We should really be able to pick and choose in the settings how we want the game to run with a recommended/default status that can be adjusted. This game is great for rotational play, but they keep doing things that (imo) hurt the rotational player.

    I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems :/

    I really don't know. The sims 4 is programmed differently, they seem to be trying to push optimization over all else even at the expense of fun game play (for some). I can't sit here and pretend like (some) people who played the Sims 3 didn't have issues handling all the sims and the open world. I personally have a pc that can handle the sims 3 just fine, but even I can tell it is poorly optimized.

    I think this is a programming issue though because I know I've mentioned this before (as have others) games like GTA run so well on my pc (max settings) that it feels to be preforming better than the Sims 4. I also play mmos just fine that have open worlds, thousands of monsters and players, as well as various (as well as huge) animations.

    Maybe the engine just doesn't handle these types of things well, I can't be sure. Hopefully though this was just an oversight because I seriously feel like who ever green-lit this doesn't actually play the game.

    It's definitely a programming issue and they love to hide behind the "consider the low-end computers" excuse when it was shown that SKYRIM ran better than TS3 on a low spec computer! It's all about the coding and the programming, and the job being done over at Maxis is sloppy.

    Bethesda, Rockstar, Paradox, all have better programmers than the stable at Maxis! It truly sucks for us
  • ModerateOspreyModerateOsprey Posts: 4,875 Member
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    The Sims 4 'Get Culled Together' They needed 3 words for the title. Get to Work - Get Culled Together.

    *shares conspiracy theory* virtual soylent green, mate
    Awake.
    Shake dreams from your hair
    My pretty child, my sweet one.
    Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
    The day's divinity....
    The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
  • AyumapAyumap Posts: 3,425 Member
    jimmysnan wrote: »
    Ayumap wrote: »
    I really, really don't want to have to rely on mods. I'm not against mods, but I don't want to NEED them.

    This is how I feel too. In the beginning I had so many issues with this game and people would tell me "just use mods"... I hated that. I never wanted to use script mods because the game is unfinished and these mods can go unsupported and cause issues (loss of game play elements) when you have to remove them, temporarily or permanently.. I don't like that.

    Sadly I think that's just the way things are going to continue to be. There are going to be things we want or dislike and we'll have to rely on our mods. I'm really grateful for the modding community because I could not play (personally) without the mods I have.

    I had to use Twallen's mods all the time in TS3 in order for the game to play so I think that the modding community is an asset to all the sims games, and to share their expertise for free is mind-blowing great in my opinion!

    I agree with what you just said 100%. I just do not like having to use mods because the game is not yet finished (still getting updates) so it is very easy for mods the stop working (thus not allowing me to play as I like, which means I won't want to play) and if the modder one day decides they no longer wish to keep up with their modding... well I'm just SOL.
    2m60a6q.jpg
    *There's nothing wrong with loving the Sims 4, there's also nothing wrong with seeking improvements.
    A list of Mods I use.|My Sims 4 Mod and CC "Master" post. Helpful Links included.
  • Ceres_MeirionaCeres_Meiriona Posts: 5,006 Member
    Ayumap wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    @ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
    I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.

    This would be glorious! I'd like to be able to manually delete sims from my relationship panel. Especially NPCs that have aged and are now ghosts.

    @Ceres_Meiriona I think this should be possible with testingcheats true enabled. (I mean I think they should make that a reality, not that it exists already). That said you can do this with mc cmd center.

    I couldn't agree more! That would be a great way to implement the feature.
    I wanted to avoid mods, but I think at this point mc cmd is going to become a staple for me. (It has always been tempting for me anyway, since it offers so many wonderful features and options).
    tumblr_oesik08PQO1vorh5do6_1280.jpg
  • Ponder the SimPonder the Sim Posts: 3,054 Member
    rudy8292 wrote: »
    The Sims 4 'Get Culled Together' They needed 3 words for the title. Get to Work - Get Culled Together.

    giphy.gif
  • king_of_simcity7king_of_simcity7 Posts: 25,102 Member
    Ayumap wrote: »
    Ayumap wrote: »
    It is a shame because I had actually heard positive things about GT from some players but this itself is another set back.

    Culling wouldn't work for me in TS3, I have around 500 Sims in one save including NPCs so any limit would be a serious no for me.

    But as for relationship culling, what is the actual purpose? I mean, if Sim culling is 'for performance' then what is the benefit of relationships being culled. If the game had no issues with relationships before then why now?

    Just another kick in the teeth really isn't it?

    :disappointed:

    I'd assume it's for performance improvement as well, similar to how having items in a sims inventory can increase load times. I'm guessing though idk for sure. I don't think this method should be "forced" on players though. We should really be able to pick and choose in the settings how we want the game to run with a recommended/default status that can be adjusted. This game is great for rotational play, but they keep doing things that (imo) hurt the rotational player.

    I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems :/

    I really don't know. The sims 4 is programmed differently, they seem to be trying to push optimization over all else even at the expense of fun game play (for some). I can't sit here and pretend like (some) people who played the Sims 3 didn't have issues handling all the sims and the open world. I personally have a pc that can handle the sims 3 just fine, but even I can tell it is poorly optimized.

    I think this is a programming issue though because I know I've mentioned this before (as have others) games like GTA run so well on my pc (max settings) that it feels to be preforming better than the Sims 4. I also play mmos just fine that have open worlds, thousands of monsters and players, as well as various (as well as huge) animations.

    Maybe the engine just doesn't handle these types of things well, I can't be sure. Hopefully though this was just an oversight because I seriously feel like who ever green-lit this doesn't actually play the game.

    Fair points.

    I myself have limited issues with TS3 :smile:
    Simbourne
    screenshot_original.jpg
  • AyumapAyumap Posts: 3,425 Member
    Ayumap wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    @ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
    I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.

    This would be glorious! I'd like to be able to manually delete sims from my relationship panel. Especially NPCs that have aged and are now ghosts.

    @Ceres_Meiriona I think this should be possible with testingcheats true enabled. (I mean I think they should make that a reality, not that it exists already). That said you can do this with mc cmd center.

    I couldn't agree more! That would be a great way to implement the feature.
    I wanted to avoid mods, but I think at this point mc cmd is going to become a staple for me. (It has always been tempting for me anyway, since it offers so many wonderful features and options).

    If you ever get one mod for this game, honestly that's the one to get (imo) Every update just offers more and more customization and nothing in it is forced upon the player. You want more story progression? It will give it to you. You want less? It'll help. Also it fixes all kinds of issues. Honestly don't know how a rotational or family/generational player can play without it. I'd be terrified for my sims. :no_mouth:

    I know you're testing the games limits though, still can't wait to see your results.
    2m60a6q.jpg
    *There's nothing wrong with loving the Sims 4, there's also nothing wrong with seeking improvements.
    A list of Mods I use.|My Sims 4 Mod and CC "Master" post. Helpful Links included.
  • Stdlr9Stdlr9 Posts: 2,744 Member
    Stdlr9 wrote: »
    Reading these posts is so entertaining -- as others have said, just when you think the game can't get any worse or buggier, it does!

    If you want to relish in others misery, I guess.

    No, not at all. Don't put words in my mouth. If people are miserable with the game, that's too bad, but who forced them to buy it and who forces them to keep shoveling money at it in the vague hope that it's going to get better?
  • fullspiralfullspiral Posts: 14,717 Member
    I can't believe we are actually talking about an expansion pack that is geared to groups -- where the members of the group cannot remember each other!
    *boggled mind*

    This! It doesn't make any sense at all! If anything, those club relationships should be developing even better on their own and not being completely forgotten when not playing them.
  • DominicLaurenceDominicLaurence Posts: 3,398 Member
    Shame! Shame! *ring the bell* Shame! Shame! *ring the bell* Shame! Shame!...
    ID: StGerris
    Legacy Photomode
  • AyumapAyumap Posts: 3,425 Member
    edited December 2015
    fullspiral wrote: »
    I can't believe we are actually talking about an expansion pack that is geared to groups -- where the members of the group cannot remember each other!
    *boggled mind*

    This! It doesn't make any sense at all! If anything, those club relationships should be developing even better on their own and not being completely forgotten when not playing them.

    This kind of reminded me... the townie limit of sims they can know is 10 (I was thinking this was going to be an issue, but I didn't think much on it past that) Now I understand why (I think) club members are vanishing off the relationship panel. It's not just because of the sim amount your sim has, but it's also because they can only know 10 people, so that's just "doubling" the culling. Townies are constantly talking to each other.

    They couldn't have honestly expected us to add all our club members as "played" households... At least I hope not. I like organization. I personally like being friends with townies, but I'm fine with them living their own lives and doing npc careers. I mean if you want to be friends with the mailman you can only be friends with him as the mailman while he's not played.
    2m60a6q.jpg
    *There's nothing wrong with loving the Sims 4, there's also nothing wrong with seeking improvements.
    A list of Mods I use.|My Sims 4 Mod and CC "Master" post. Helpful Links included.
  • king_of_simcity7king_of_simcity7 Posts: 25,102 Member
    Ayumap wrote: »
    fullspiral wrote: »
    I can't believe we are actually talking about an expansion pack that is geared to groups -- where the members of the group cannot remember each other!
    *boggled mind*

    This! It doesn't make any sense at all! If anything, those club relationships should be developing even better on their own and not being completely forgotten when not playing them.

    This kind of reminded me... the townie limit of sims they can know is 10 (I was thinking this was going to be an issue, but I didn't think much on it past that) Now I understand why (I think) club members are vanishing off the relationship panel. It's not just because of the sim amount your sim has, but it's also because they can only know 10 people, so that's just "doubling" the culling. Townies are constantly talking to each other.

    They couldn't have honestly expected us to add all our club members as "played" households... At least I hope not. I like organization. I personally like being friends with townies, but I'm fine with them living their own lives and doing npc careers. I mean if you want to be friends with the mailman you can only be friends with him as the mailman while he's not played.

    So there is a limit on how many friends you can have now?

    Ridiculous

    :disappointed:
    Simbourne
    screenshot_original.jpg
  • Ceres_MeirionaCeres_Meiriona Posts: 5,006 Member
    edited December 2015
    Ayumap wrote: »
    Ayumap wrote: »
    Hermitgirl wrote: »
    @ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
    I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.

    This would be glorious! I'd like to be able to manually delete sims from my relationship panel. Especially NPCs that have aged and are now ghosts.

    @Ceres_Meiriona I think this should be possible with testingcheats true enabled. (I mean I think they should make that a reality, not that it exists already). That said you can do this with mc cmd center.

    I couldn't agree more! That would be a great way to implement the feature.
    I wanted to avoid mods, but I think at this point mc cmd is going to become a staple for me. (It has always been tempting for me anyway, since it offers so many wonderful features and options).

    If you ever get one mod for this game, honestly that's the one to get (imo) Every update just offers more and more customization and nothing in it is forced upon the player. You want more story progression? It will give it to you. You want less? It'll help. Also it fixes all kinds of issues. Honestly don't know how a rotational or family/generational player can play without it. I'd be terrified for my sims. :no_mouth:

    I know you're testing the games limits though, still can't wait to see your results.

    I finally hit culling, (though it wasn't where I expected it to be) so I'm done testing. In all truthfulness, I'm kind of weary of testing game limitations... it's time to get back to my real legacy family and enjoy myself. ;)

    Which unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it lol) means I'll need mc cmd. Excited to have access to the story progression and woohoo features that come with that mod, not gonna lie! lol I've wanted it for a long while!
    tumblr_oesik08PQO1vorh5do6_1280.jpg
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