It is a shame because I had actually heard positive things about GT from some players but this itself is another set back.
Culling wouldn't work for me in TS3, I have around 500 Sims in one save including NPCs so any limit would be a serious no for me.
But as for relationship culling, what is the actual purpose? I mean, if Sim culling is 'for performance' then what is the benefit of relationships being culled. If the game had no issues with relationships before then why now?
Just another kick in the teeth really isn't it?
My guess? It's to preserve more genealogy in single-household games.
I'd be less unhappy with it if they'd just put this in the patch notes. Then I'd have known I needed to mod it out. Or give me a choice: do I want genealogy or relationship preservation outside the active household?
I agree, luthienrising. I think you're right in suspecting there is a correlation with family tree culling. With how dramatically improved the family tree genealogy has become, I was worried that something else might be suffering. I had so many households running in my "culling test" save that I honestly lost track of who they were supposed to be friends with. After seeing your posts on the activity feed I started trying to keep track, though, and noticed that my sims frequently had their relationships culled in between rotations.
Customization that would allow us some control over this would be so greatly appreciated, or perhaps a relationship culling system that has smarter programming. >.< ::sigh::
So that's what this is. I was wondering why my sims keep losing friends ( and even those in their groups) Glad the group keeps them together to make it easier to reintroduce them, but how can they all get to very good friends if the game keeps resetting them and making them not know each other.
Welp... it's almost Get Together, except for remembering who to get together with. I gotta ask, What's WRONG with this picture?!
I have no problems with mods that enhance the play, but why should players depend on third parties to fix the game when it should be EA/Maxis fixing their own game. Same thing was happening with SimCity 2013, people was waiting for the modders for their fixes.
This new relationship culling is a "feature", not a bug. True, it seems to be a bit buggy and hopefully they will work on it, but maybe in general it's the best they can do with what they've got to work with. The game apparently can't handle so many sims and relationships, so to keep it functioning to the level they've targeted for low end PCs this is what they came up with.
When you just flat out don't like certain game design decisions, to the point where you don't even want to play any more, there might be no other choice than to use a mod that changes it.
I'm all for inclusiveness, but there comes a point where it is up the player to make sure they can meet the system requirements of a game that they want to play. That is assuming that this brutal nerf is related to performance.
I can't lay my hands on any references, but someone mentioned in a thread that there was some dynamic performance tuning going on as well that was introduced with the patch, so if the game thinks your machine hasn't got the grunt, then certain things are toned down - I think the number of sims allowed on a lot was one of them. Someone else may know more.
Personally, I would like these in some kind of options, so I can do my own tweaking.
I completely agree. This is related to the customization options that we used to routinely have in Sims games, I think. They seem to be moving away from giving players customization choices and instead want to make decisions about the game themselves. I suppose it saves them the trouble of providing options.
Sometimes I wonder if they still plan on taking this game online at some point, and if that's the real reason for their low-end PC / one size fits all approach.
The Sims
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
So that's what this is. I was wondering why my sims keep losing friends ( and even those in their groups) Glad the group keeps them together to make it easier to reintroduce them, but how can they all get to very good friends if the game keeps resetting them and making them not know each other.
Welp... it's almost Get Together, except for remembering who to get together with. I gotta ask, What's WRONG with this picture?!
Something is really wrong with it because I set up my town to play the whole town and interweave their lives the way I want to. Now the game has stopped my ability to do that.
It is a shame because I had actually heard positive things about GT from some players but this itself is another set back.
Culling wouldn't work for me in TS3, I have around 500 Sims in one save including NPCs so any limit would be a serious no for me.
But as for relationship culling, what is the actual purpose? I mean, if Sim culling is 'for performance' then what is the benefit of relationships being culled. If the game had no issues with relationships before then why now?
Just another kick in the teeth really isn't it?
I'd assume it's for performance improvement as well, similar to how having items in a sims inventory can increase load times. I'm guessing though idk for sure. I don't think this method should be "forced" on players though. We should really be able to pick and choose in the settings how we want the game to run with a recommended/default status that can be adjusted. This game is great for rotational play, but they keep doing things that (imo) hurt the rotational player.
I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems
> @king_of_simcity7 said: > I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems :/
The game can't support long-term expansion. Remember, this engine was made for an MMO, they probably never intended for people to play it like a normal Sims game until the online concept was scrapped and they had to switch it around last minute.
Didn't they say they built this engine to avoid things like this and to support growth and do anything they wanted to do?
This happened to me and I found it very peculiar but now to find out it's a FEATURE?! It's intended! More and more were learning the foundation of this game is nothing but sand!
> @king_of_simcity7 said:
> I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems
The game can't support long-term expansion. Remember, this engine was made for an MMO, they probably never intended for people to play it like a normal Sims game until the online concept was scrapped and they had to switch it around last minute.
Didn't they say they built this engine to avoid things like this and to support growth and do anything they wanted to do?
This happened to me and I found it very peculiar but now to find out it's a FEATURE?! It's intended! More and more were learning the foundation of this game is nothing but sand!
When I got GT I deleted all save games and started fresh with stored sims in my library. I did have to renew the relationships I wanted. I put the sims I wanted to play in about 16 or so houses. They are clubbed together in various ways .. now mostly depending on a predominant trait they share. So far I haven't seen any issues but I admit I play tightly and I really don't like my sims to develop strong relationships I don't want them to have. If they do include an npc I don't like I use manage worlds to take care of that intruder.
So far I haven't seen any issues that affects my play. I also have some single player save games going on ..so nothing there.
I guess I've slipped under the net yet again about being affected because of my play styles.
I was wondering though are some relationships being lost, gained or distanced due to a type of story progression where the non-played and npcs are doing this on their own? Are some of these issues being lumped together.. someone had said they want no changes they aren't aware of for instance.. So when you see townies and npcs talking and doing their own thing. Is this not suppose to affect those sims relationships? When the relationship goes down to nothing is the sim simply removed from the relationship panel (requiring a reintroduction) or is it just some random overnight chop when the relationships are high?
@king_of_simcity7 There have been relationship issues in the past; I remember moving my family to a new home (within their existing town) and losing all my relationships in Ts3. Bugs and poor decisions happen, especially in sandbox games.
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it! That always seems like the best place to reach the gurus, imo.
When I got GT I deleted all save games and started fresh with stored sims in my library. I did have to renew the relationships I wanted. I put the sims I wanted to play in about 16 or so houses. They are clubbed together in various ways .. now mostly depending on a predominant trait they share. So far I haven't seen any issues but I admit I play tightly and I really don't like my sims to develop strong relationships I don't want them to have. If they do include an npc I don't like I use manage worlds to take care of that intruder.
So far I haven't seen any issues that affects my play. I also have some single player save games going on ..so nothing there.
I guess I've slipped under the net yet again about being affected because of my play styles.
I was wondering though are some relationships being lost, gained or distanced due to a type of story progression where the non-played and npcs are doing this on their own? Are some of these issues being lumped together.. someone had said they want no changes they aren't aware of for instance.. So when you see townies and npcs talking and doing their own thing. Is this not suppose to affect those sims relationships? When the relationship goes down to nothing is the sim simply removed from the relationship panel (requiring a reintroduction) or is it just some random overnight chop when the relationships are high?
If I play a sim that meets someone on a monday evening and I the player thinks, oo, i'll have my sim contact that sim sometime this week and he goes his merry way. I then rotate to another sim that meets a few other sims and then go back to the original sim 24+ hours later, he has forgotten that sim exists. The same happens to the other sim when I rotate back to that - unplayable, IMO.
The simple version is in order for him to remember that sim long term, he has to make a friend there and then, you can say goodbye to slowburn friendships for your sims.
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
Okay, this is truly sad. My sims should never just forget someone. I like to play my households in rotation, and once a sim meets someone, they shouldn't have to be introduced again. What's the point of taking my sims out to meet people if they're just going to forget they exist?
This reminds me of one time in Sims 3 when my sim's relationship with his ex-girlfriend decayed or something to the point where they were just acquaintances. They had parted on bad terms, with him discovering her cheating, and it really irritated me that their former relationship was no longer recognized because I felt like he was the person who would continue to be bitter about it for a long time afterward. Sims should never forget each other or what has happened between them, unless an alien wipes their mind or something. You would think that by now we'd have a memory system better than TS2.
@king_of_simcity7 There have been relationship issues in the past; I remember moving my family to a new home (within their existing town) and losing all my relationships in Ts3. Bugs and poor decisions happen, especially in sandbox games.
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it! That always seems like the best place to reach the gurus, imo.
I have never lost a relationship in TS3, at least not that I have noticed. I did see a few Sims who were formally married had somehow 'broke up' but this might have something to do with the fact that one Sim had the flirty trait and thus must have been caught flirting with another Sim on a community lot.
I also have a family where every Sim is mean spirited and they all hate each other lol
@king_of_simcity7 There have been relationship issues in the past; I remember moving my family to a new home (within their existing town) and losing all my relationships in Ts3. Bugs and poor decisions happen, especially in sandbox games.
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it! That always seems like the best place to reach the gurus, imo.
I have never lost a relationship in TS3, at least not that I have noticed. I did see a few Sims who were formally married had somehow 'broke up' but this might have something to do with the fact that one Sim had the flirty trait and thus must have been caught flirting with another Sim on a community lot.
I also have a family where every Sim is mean spirited and they all hate each other lol
Actually, unless you used a mod, in TS3 some sim families from time to time would just up and move out of the town and out of existence. But at least you would be notified if you read the newspaper.
TS2 that never happened. Further indication of a time long gone when Maxis had talent and skill.
@king_of_simcity7 There have been relationship issues in the past; I remember moving my family to a new home (within their existing town) and losing all my relationships in Ts3. Bugs and poor decisions happen, especially in sandbox games.
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it! That always seems like the best place to reach the gurus, imo.
I have never lost a relationship in TS3, at least not that I have noticed. I did see a few Sims who were formally married had somehow 'broke up' but this might have something to do with the fact that one Sim had the flirty trait and thus must have been caught flirting with another Sim on a community lot.
I also have a family where every Sim is mean spirited and they all hate each other lol
Actually, unless you used a mod, in TS3 some sim families from time to time would just up and move out of the town and out of existence. But at least you would be notified if you read the newspaper.
TS2 that never happened. Further indication of a time long gone when Maxis had talent and skill.
Oh yes that is Story Progression, I never played with SP so I have never had Sims move out of town
@king_of_simcity7 There have been relationship issues in the past; I remember moving my family to a new home (within their existing town) and losing all my relationships in Ts3. Bugs and poor decisions happen, especially in sandbox games.
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it! That always seems like the best place to reach the gurus, imo.
I have never lost a relationship in TS3, at least not that I have noticed. I did see a few Sims who were formally married had somehow 'broke up' but this might have something to do with the fact that one Sim had the flirty trait and thus must have been caught flirting with another Sim on a community lot.
I also have a family where every Sim is mean spirited and they all hate each other lol
Actually, unless you used a mod, in TS3 some sim families from time to time would just up and move out of the town and out of existence. But at least you would be notified if you read the newspaper.
TS2 that never happened. Further indication of a time long gone when Maxis had talent and skill.
Oh yes that is Story Progression, I never played with SP so I have never had Sims move out of town
Ah that's right. Well at least you got the option is TS3, here they're just forcing it on everyone. And the game is not even open world so the excuses they can use are paper thin.
@king_of_simcity7 There have been relationship issues in the past; I remember moving my family to a new home (within their existing town) and losing all my relationships in Ts3. Bugs and poor decisions happen, especially in sandbox games.
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it! That always seems like the best place to reach the gurus, imo.
I have never lost a relationship in TS3, at least not that I have noticed. I did see a few Sims who were formally married had somehow 'broke up' but this might have something to do with the fact that one Sim had the flirty trait and thus must have been caught flirting with another Sim on a community lot.
I also have a family where every Sim is mean spirited and they all hate each other lol
Actually, unless you used a mod, in TS3 some sim families from time to time would just up and move out of the town and out of existence. But at least you would be notified if you read the newspaper.
TS2 that never happened. Further indication of a time long gone when Maxis had talent and skill.
Oh yes that is Story Progression, I never played with SP so I have never had Sims move out of town
Ah that's right. Well at least you got the option is TS3, here they're just forcing it on everyone. And the game is not even open world so the excuses they can use are paper thin.
SP was very hit and miss in the early days, there was a minor issue where you couldn't turn it off without a work around before I patch came out. I questioned if that was deliberate to try and get players to use it as they strongly recommended it but I avoided it from the start. I was wary of it just like I was wary of 'Sims aging up' in TS2 so for a number of households I had to cheat to turn aging off.
In TS3, aging is off, SP is off and I am in control. If I wish to age Sims up, I do so with the cake
I have no problems with mods that enhance the play, but why should players depend on third parties to fix the game when it should be EA/Maxis fixing their own game. Same thing was happening with SimCity 2013, people was waiting for the modders for their fixes.
This new relationship culling is a "feature", not a bug. True, it seems to be a bit buggy and hopefully they will work on it, but maybe in general it's the best they can do with what they've got to work with. The game apparently can't handle so many sims and relationships, so to keep it functioning to the level they've targeted for low end PCs this is what they came up with.
When you just flat out don't like certain game design decisions, to the point where you don't even want to play any more, there might be no other choice than to use a mod that changes it.
I'm all for inclusiveness, but there comes a point where it is up the player to make sure they can meet the system requirements of a game that they want to play. That is assuming that this brutal nerf is related to performance.
I can't lay my hands on any references, but someone mentioned in a thread that there was some dynamic performance tuning going on as well that was introduced with the patch, so if the game thinks your machine hasn't got the grunt, then certain things are toned down - I think the number of sims allowed on a lot was one of them. Someone else may know more.
Personally, I would like these in some kind of options, so I can do my own tweaking.
I wonder if that's related to the 64-bit option introduced in the patch -- if you're running 64-bit you'll have busier lots than if you're only on 32-bit. I haven't noticed any difference in lot population since the GT patch like some players have, other than being tuned to time of day (library emptying out at 9pm, nightclubs getting busier about 5pm or so).
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
@ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.
@ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already. I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.
That would probably satisfy me
Awake.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity.... The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
@ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.
One thing that bugs me is when NPC Sims my Sim has met die, and their ghost portraits remain in the relationship panel for what seems like forever. If this relationship culling gets rid of the ghost Sims first, I'll be fine with it.
A way to mark Sims in the relationship panel, short of getting to the Friend level, would be awesome. I've toned down the Friendship decay to 0 percent with MC Command Center, and hopefully that will help -- I'll just make sure my Sims have a few close friends instead of trying to get them to know the whole town.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I'm very sorry to hear that they have introduced new features that are making more people unhappy with the game. You would think at least one dev might stand up and say 'how are the fan's going to like this feature or change in the way it affects game play'. I do hope they at least listen to y'all and fix this particular 'feature'.
I'm very sorry to hear that they have introduced new features that are making more people unhappy with the game. You would think at least one dev might stand up and say 'how are the fan's going to like this feature or change in the way it affects game play'. I do hope they at least listen to y'all and fix this particular 'feature'.
@ModerateOsprey Okay thanks, I was wondering and that does clear it up for me more. Yeah, I don't think that would affect my play style. I'm sorry it's bothering others though. Personally I don't want a glut of faces of sims I barely know.. or don't want my sims to know popping up in that relationship panel because it seems too full as it is too me already.
I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.
This would be glorious! I'd like to be able to manually delete sims from my relationship panel. Especially NPCs that have aged and are now ghosts.
Comments
I agree, luthienrising. I think you're right in suspecting there is a correlation with family tree culling. With how dramatically improved the family tree genealogy has become, I was worried that something else might be suffering. I had so many households running in my "culling test" save that I honestly lost track of who they were supposed to be friends with. After seeing your posts on the activity feed I started trying to keep track, though, and noticed that my sims frequently had their relationships culled in between rotations.
Customization that would allow us some control over this would be so greatly appreciated, or perhaps a relationship culling system that has smarter programming. >.< ::sigh::
Welp... it's almost Get Together, except for remembering who to get together with. I gotta ask, What's WRONG with this picture?!
I completely agree. This is related to the customization options that we used to routinely have in Sims games, I think. They seem to be moving away from giving players customization choices and instead want to make decisions about the game themselves. I suppose it saves them the trouble of providing options.
Sometimes I wonder if they still plan on taking this game online at some point, and if that's the real reason for their low-end PC / one size fits all approach.
Where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?!
Something is really wrong with it because I set up my town to play the whole town and interweave their lives the way I want to. Now the game has stopped my ability to do that.
I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems
That's exactly what I've been saying for over a year now.
> I still don't understand how relationships could be an issue though? I mean we have had relationships in The Sims for more than 15 years and never once have I heard of it causing problems :/
The game can't support long-term expansion. Remember, this engine was made for an MMO, they probably never intended for people to play it like a normal Sims game until the online concept was scrapped and they had to switch it around last minute.
This happened to me and I found it very peculiar but now to find out it's a FEATURE?! It's intended! More and more were learning the foundation of this game is nothing but sand!
Fair points
Worrying points, but again, fair points
So far I haven't seen any issues that affects my play. I also have some single player save games going on ..so nothing there.
I guess I've slipped under the net yet again about being affected because of my play styles.
I was wondering though are some relationships being lost, gained or distanced due to a type of story progression where the non-played and npcs are doing this on their own? Are some of these issues being lumped together.. someone had said they want no changes they aren't aware of for instance.. So when you see townies and npcs talking and doing their own thing. Is this not suppose to affect those sims relationships? When the relationship goes down to nothing is the sim simply removed from the relationship panel (requiring a reintroduction) or is it just some random overnight chop when the relationships are high?
The most important thing is to make sure the devs know about it, provide them with as much information as possible, and keep requesting that it gets fixed.
@luthienrising if you post anything on twitter I'll be sure to add my two cents to it!
If I play a sim that meets someone on a monday evening and I the player thinks, oo, i'll have my sim contact that sim sometime this week and he goes his merry way. I then rotate to another sim that meets a few other sims and then go back to the original sim 24+ hours later, he has forgotten that sim exists. The same happens to the other sim when I rotate back to that - unplayable, IMO.
The simple version is in order for him to remember that sim long term, he has to make a friend there and then, you can say goodbye to slowburn friendships for your sims.
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
This reminds me of one time in Sims 3 when my sim's relationship with his ex-girlfriend decayed or something to the point where they were just acquaintances. They had parted on bad terms, with him discovering her cheating, and it really irritated me that their former relationship was no longer recognized because I felt like he was the person who would continue to be bitter about it for a long time afterward. Sims should never forget each other or what has happened between them, unless an alien wipes their mind or something. You would think that by now we'd have a memory system better than TS2.
I have never lost a relationship in TS3, at least not that I have noticed. I did see a few Sims who were formally married had somehow 'broke up' but this might have something to do with the fact that one Sim had the flirty trait and thus must have been caught flirting with another Sim on a community lot.
I also have a family where every Sim is mean spirited and they all hate each other lol
Actually, unless you used a mod, in TS3 some sim families from time to time would just up and move out of the town and out of existence. But at least you would be notified if you read the newspaper.
TS2 that never happened. Further indication of a time long gone when Maxis had talent and skill.
Oh yes that is Story Progression, I never played with SP so I have never had Sims move out of town
Ah that's right. Well at least you got the option is TS3, here they're just forcing it on everyone. And the game is not even open world so the excuses they can use are paper thin.
SP was very hit and miss in the early days, there was a minor issue where you couldn't turn it off without a work around before I patch came out. I questioned if that was deliberate to try and get players to use it as they strongly recommended it but I avoided it from the start. I was wary of it just like I was wary of 'Sims aging up' in TS2 so for a number of households I had to cheat to turn aging off.
In TS3, aging is off, SP is off and I am in control. If I wish to age Sims up, I do so with the cake
I wonder if that's related to the 64-bit option introduced in the patch -- if you're running 64-bit you'll have busier lots than if you're only on 32-bit. I haven't noticed any difference in lot population since the GT patch like some players have, other than being tuned to time of day (library emptying out at 9pm, nightclubs getting busier about 5pm or so).
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I wish we had more tools to like put a check next to a sim we want to remain on our relationships panel.
That would probably satisfy me
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity....
The Ghost Song - Jim Morrison
One thing that bugs me is when NPC Sims my Sim has met die, and their ghost portraits remain in the relationship panel for what seems like forever. If this relationship culling gets rid of the ghost Sims first, I'll be fine with it.
A way to mark Sims in the relationship panel, short of getting to the Friend level, would be awesome. I've toned down the Friendship decay to 0 percent with MC Command Center, and hopefully that will help -- I'll just make sure my Sims have a few close friends instead of trying to get them to know the whole town.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
The Cowboy and the Mermaid
Well said
This would be glorious! I'd like to be able to manually delete sims from my relationship panel. Especially NPCs that have aged and are now ghosts.