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We all know we want Open World back

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    LatinaBunnyLatinaBunny Posts: 4,666 Member
    edited November 2015
    Ok, I'll bite. I'm assuming I'm one of "those" people blueturtleotter's talking about?

    Here's the thing:

    I love open or open-like worlds.....

    ...In other games but the sims.

    The only experience with open world in a sims franchise was sims 3, so that is the only experience I have in seeing the programmers' attempt at an open world.

    Are these the same programmers for the meh/ok TS4? If so, then I don't have much hope for a well-programmed TS5, open world or not, lol.

    So if there's going to there's open world, it'd better be darned well-programmed (and there better be open restaruants and home businesses that sims 3 didn't properly provide, etc).

    I would love open world....but...

    I don't want to relive my bad sims 3 experiences. I realy don't.

    A game shouldn't break me down to tears in order to play, or have fun. Sims 3 (and now Sims 4, if the toddler thing doesn't get resolved next year) almost made me want to quit sims overall. I have installed and uninstalled that game several times, and I'm just not able to love it like other people can.

    And that's my opinion. Like how many simmers can't deal with sims 4's shortcomings, I can't deal with sims 3's. (I have uninstalled it again a few weeks ago. I'm tolerating ts4 and enjoying some aspects of it, and appreciating that I don't need too, too many mods for it.)

    (And I'm getting really, really tired of defending my various opinions about sims3/sims 4. I'm starting to feel why TS4 fans are so agitated with sims 3 fans, and vice-versa...Sheesh... )

    If the programmers can make open world work as smoothly as a AAA open/semi-open game world, then hats off to them, and I'll happily embrace the open world.

    Until then, I'm skeptical if the current devs/programmmers can handle it, lol.
    ~*~Occult Family Player player~*~
    (She/her)
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    blueturtleotterblueturtleotter Posts: 867 Member
    Ok, I'll bite. I'm assuming I'm one of "those" people blueturtleotter's talking about?

    Here's the thing:

    I love open or open-like worlds.....

    ...In other games but the sims.

    The only experience with open world in a sims franchise was sims 3, so that is the only experience I have in seeing the programmers' attempt at an open world.

    Are these the same programmers for the meh/ok TS4? If so, then I don't have much hope for a well-programmed TS5, open world or not, lol.

    So if there's going to there's open world, it'd better be darned well-programmed (and there better be open restaruants and home businesses that sims 3 didn't properly provide, etc).

    I would love open world....but...

    I don't want to relive my bad sims 3 experiences. I realy don't.

    A game shouldn't break me down to tears in order to play, or have fun. Sims 3 (and now Sims 4, if the toddler thing doesn't get resolved next year) almost made me want to quit sims overall. I have installed and uninstalled that game several times, and I'm just not able to love it like other people can.

    And that's my opinion. Like how many simmers can't deal with sims 4's shortcomings, I can't deal with sims 3's. (I have uninstalled it again a few weeks ago. I'm tolerating ts4 and enjoying some aspects of it, and appreciating that I don't need too, too many mods for it.)

    (And I'm getting really, really tired of defending my various opinions about sims3/sims 4. I'm starting to feel why TS4 fans are so agitated with sims 3 fans, and vice-versa...Sheesh... )

    If the programmers can make open world work as smoothly as a AAA open/semi-open game world, then hats off to them, and I'll happily embrace the open world.

    Until then, I'm skeptical if the current devs/programmmers can handle it, lol.

    Thank you for your detailed response. You've been very erudite and explained your position well.

    I agree with you, I don't want an open world to be like The Sims 3's either with regards to all the problems it had. But I do want an open world, just a better one.

    Like you, I'm not letting The Sims 3 100% color my opinion of an open world in The Sims. As you say, we've only The Sims 3 to go on, but I think they can do better. They can always hire experts to help them if they lack the specific skill-set to make an open world problem free.

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    azxcvbnm321azxcvbnm321 Posts: 532 Member
    I think the point being made is that, open world =/= lag, poor performance. A well optimized open world sims game WITHOUT any lag or issues should be possible now, thanks to advances in computing power and better programming know how. Look at GTA V, which is open world and huge, and there are no loading screens other than missions/jobs.

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    InsightCrazyInsightCrazy Posts: 69 Member
    I think the point being made is that, open world =/= lag, poor performance. A well optimized open world sims game WITHOUT any lag or issues should be possible now, thanks to advances in computing power and better programming know how. Look at GTA V, which is open world and huge, and there are no loading screens other than missions/jobs.

    If there were to be open world it would be great to have nice smooth performance like GTA5. TS3 performance was not great with the open world.
    Origin: InsightCrazy
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    Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,883 Member
    TS3 was 32bit. That makes all the difference in processing power and where your PC resources are coming from. And they crippled TS4 on PC by still only making it 32bit. I can't even think of why, knowing Microsoft was discontinuing support for WinXP, they would make a new game with an old standard. It's bizarre and shouldn't happen. I'd like to know how many people were actually playing the game (TS3) with 32bit computers and why they thought it was necessary to continue supporting 32bit os. Macs got a 64bit version, why not Windows?
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    HalloMolliHalloMolli Posts: 2,720 Member
    edited November 2015
    Mstybl95 wrote: »

    IGN hasn't been objective since the 90s. They get paid for their reviews. Just saying.

    What about wikipedia then? Would this be ok?

    "The Sims 4 is a life simulation video game developed by Maxis and The Sims Studio and published by Electronic Arts. [...] The Sims 4 is the first PC game to top all-format charts in two years. The game has received mixed reviews since its release.

    The game has the same concept as its predecessor, The Sims 3. Players control their Sims in various activities and can form relationships. The game, like the rest of the series, does not have a defined final goal; gameplay is nonlinear."

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_4

    ---

    >>Life simulation (or artificial life games) is a subgenre of simulation video games in which the player lives or controls one or more virtual lifeforms. A life simulation game can revolve around "individuals and relationships, or it could be a simulation of an ecosystem".<<

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_simulation_game

    Let's keep this "definition" in our mind since it sums up perfectly what the main difference is about TS4 and TS3 and why both games still have to be classified as simulation games.
    But besides the point, in a simulation, I'd actually expect some simulations to happen.

    Yes, and the simulation happens in TS3 and TS4. You (as a player) can in fact experience the simulation of everyday's life in both games. One does cover certain aspects better than the other. Nothing has changed here since TS1.
    So far I see filler Sims and a total lack of any data tracking that one would expect to see.

    What do you mean by filler sims? Townies?

    And nope, I'd expect it only to a certain point in a closed environment. Data tracking/story progression, however, makes totally sense in an open world sim game.
    The game doesn't track when kids should be in school

    It does. It simulates children going to and returning from school --> during those peak hours there are usually more kids on the streets.
    The last time I left my child at home he couldn't call his friend over to his house since he was not available for him(in school).
    that they shouldn't be in bars and clubs.

    Agree, luckily I have never experienced this bug in my game. But I read it happens occasionally.
    Doesn't track when Sims should be at work.

    It does. Yesterday I visited GF and planed to stay on vacation for 4 days with two of my families. Well, the very next day everybody of the not played family left the place due to obligations (work + school).
    Doesn't track who owns a business if you visit it with a different sim.

    Which is good in my opinion. Owning a business is no profession. Your sim can go to work AND own a business. This system allows your sim to be still available/accessable for your other played sims after you rotated to another family. I like that.
    Doesn't track who works at the hospital.

    Yes and no. It all comes down to how you deal with culling. Either you do it like me (--> My favourite co-workers or at least some I care for are living a happy life in their own houses) or you can use MC command center to prevent it from happening. Now culling is not a problem anymore.
    Doesn't have a natural reaction system.

    Why do you lie? Of course it does and since recently it even works almost always without any flaws. They are still working on it, though.
    Emotion system is about as basic as it gets, worse than both TS2 and TS3, which is a pretty hard feat.

    It seems you have no clue what the emotion system is about. It not only adds so many layers to the "liveliness" of our sims (since now they have several ways to perform an interaction) but it is also a great "story-telling" tool. It gives me the powers I need to control my environment and how my sims react to it. Finally I have control over the outcome of any conversation (and their autonomous interactions). After all "emotions" were the first attempt of Maxis to do justice to their "you rule" premise of the game.

    The simulation perspective/part shifted back to a "everyday's life"-simulation game (TS3 was a massive town simulation but lacks in delivering a properly "mundane things"-simulation, I mean those little repetetive nuisances of everyday life such as eating together etc.), hence both games don't need to compete with each other about this genre.

    Multi-tasking, emotions and the beautiful small sandbox create an absolutly mind-blowing level of immersion. Let me explain why:

    Having only one lot loaded at a time, allows a more efficient allocation of recources for this particular lot, it really is something what makes the game shine <--> immersion due to eye-candy (graphics, world, fx effects) + gameplay (multi-tasking, very alive sims) is the formula here.

    You see, I think this is the main reason why I love life simulation games. I enjoy getting myself immersed into the everyday life of my sims --> having a nice breakfast with your family, watching TV, sit at work behind the computer etc. . For some it may sound repetetive and boring and I can honestly see that.
    However, life in general has its boring and repetetive routines (everyday socializing, eating, use the bathroom etc.). Compared to any other iteration TS4 delivers here the best experience when it comes to simulating those "little" things.

    Maybe a video comparison will help you understand what I mean. Yes, I recorded a party. Why? Because I think parties are the best way to test the limits of an engine because the game is forced to handle more than just a handful of sims on one spot.

    (disclaimer: Sorry for the bad video quality. Both videos are only 30 seconds long but I still had to scale down the video quality since my internet is terribly slow)

    TS4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ecygYlsrAA&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;ab_channel=HalloMolli

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m21InkokF0w&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;ab_channel=HalloMolli


    This is a similar video I've found on youtube for TS3 (with similar conditions: nearly as many sims as in my video + smaller room): https://youtu.be/dWxluBb65mo?t=295


    Wanna see some more examples: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jZ9nU85YUlc&feature=youtu.be&t=895&ab_channel=BereghostGames or here: https://youtu.be/gannVEk2s0U?t=438 or this: https://youtu.be/FhZWLFEEtog?t=914 interesting as well: https://youtu.be/qRHGxEEFa0I?list=PL8OEz41l29gOkIU68AhokhwChtfkrOx7m&t=885

    I guess it all comes down to personal preferences. Just please - stop with your "TS4 is not a simulation"-nonsense. It certainly is.


    Post edited by HalloMolli on
    "[...] and everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end."


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    Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,883 Member
    And...if you are among the crowd that was trying to play TS3 with a 32bit system, then that's why you had lag. Your PC was not powerful enough to play the game with expansions. So blaming open world for the problems isn't accurate. Had the game been 64bit from the start, then it would not have had the amount of problems on the number of computers that it did. Shoddy programming, low specs, memory leaks, data hogging...all reasons the game didn't run well. It wasn't optimized. And guess what...they did the same thing with TS4. --Go download the mod for 5 times the amount of Sims on community lots and let me know if you don't have a crash to desktop. I'll give you a thousand simpoints if you have a medium spec'd PC and you don't.
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    Ceres_MeirionaCeres_Meiriona Posts: 5,006 Member
    @Mstybl95 I have always played on a 64 bit desktop... TS3 did lag and crash a lot for me. Wonderful mods like Overwatch and NRAAS in general helped with that as well as awesome community support like Crinrict who taught everyone and their dog how to maintenance your folders so you could squeeze the best performance possible out of the game and protect your saves. Even all those measures, didn't solve the problems, though. It was a poorly optimized game. It had a great concept, with a lot of amazing features, but the features are pointless if you can't play the game because you're crashing or lagging excessively.

    I had a computer that far exceeded the specs, and was playing in the beginning before they put a frame rate limiter into the options menu. If your computer had a high end graphics card, the game would run as many fps as the card's max would allow, and burn it up. This happened to me TWICE before I found out about the issue. I never in a million years thought a game would do that kind of damage, so I was chalking it up to faulty hardware. It's actually kind of funny in hindsight, because each time I bought a way better card thinking the previous card must not have been good quality, just to have it burn up faster (b/c the new card would allow for even more fps rofl). It wasn't funny then, but now it's kind of amusing. Anyway, I just happened to be venting one day on my TS3 wall and someone was like... "Hey Ceres, that's a known issue, you need to go to this thread and follow these steps to go into your graphics card and manually set an fps limiter for the game so it doesn't happen again." They eventually added an FPS limiter in the game's options menu (I think you could choose from 30 or 60... and 60 is all you need), but my POINT is... having trouble with TS3 does not = your gaming rig sucked. It just doesn't. It's rather insulting when people throw that out as a counter to simmers expressing dissatisfaction with the game's optimization/performance. In the end, there was a lot of agreeance among the community that PCs who met the specifications or barely exceeded them, seemed to run TS3 far better than PCs that dramatically over-exceeded them or did not come close to meeting them. In regard to TS3 it seemed the middle of the road gaming rig was the "just right" sweet spot for the game.

    I do agree that I wish they would upgrade The Sims in general to 64 bit client, but I don't think that will ever happen. They want to reach as many people as possible, and that means 32 bit... which is very frustrating for players seeking more. :/ I do believe they can make a 32 bit game run well even with tons of content if it's optimized correctly. They dropped the ball in TS3 and failed to optimize it like they should have, hopefully they don't do the same in TS4, but only time will tell in that regard. My personal opinion is that TS4 is going to do well in regard to lag and performance, but that's because of the advantage (for the developers) of having load screens to clean up everything in mini bursts of game maintenance. That's a disadvantage for player immersion, but it gives TS4 a leg up in the maintenance department from TS3 (at a cost to the player).

    In regard to downloading mods and tossing a million sims into one venue... of course the game is going to crash. LOL There are already a lot of sims on community lots, to fill them up 5X more than what they are... you'd be swimming through a rave. I'd crash in real life if that many people showed up at my house too. lol The mod reference seems rather irrelevant, unless you are using that example to prove TS4 can't support an open world? Which of course is rather obvious, since it wasn't designed with an open world in mind.
    tumblr_oesik08PQO1vorh5do6_1280.jpg
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    Mstybl95Mstybl95 Posts: 5,883 Member
    @Mstybl95 I have always played on a 64 bit desktop... TS3 did lag and crash a lot for me. Wonderful mods like Overwatch and NRAAS in general helped with that as well as awesome community support like Crinrict who taught everyone and their dog how to maintenance your folders so you could squeeze the best performance possible out of the game and protect your saves. Even all those measures, didn't solve the problems, though. It was a poorly optimized game. It had a great concept, with a lot of amazing features, but the features are pointless if you can't play the game because you're crashing or lagging excessively.

    I had a computer that far exceeded the specs, and was playing in the beginning before they put a frame rate limiter into the options menu. If your computer had a high end graphics card, the game would run as many fps as the card's max would allow, and burn it up. This happened to me TWICE before I found out about the issue. I never in a million years thought a game would do that kind of damage, so I was chalking it up to faulty hardware. It's actually kind of funny in hindsight, because each time I bought a way better card thinking the previous card must not have been good quality, just to have it burn up faster (b/c the new card would allow for even more fps rofl). It wasn't funny then, but now it's kind of amusing. Anyway, I just happened to be venting one day on my TS3 wall and someone was like... "Hey Ceres, that's a known issue, you need to go to this thread and follow these steps to go into your graphics card and manually set an fps limiter for the game so it doesn't happen again." They eventually added an FPS limiter in the game's options menu (I think you could choose from 30 or 60... and 60 is all you need), but my POINT is... having trouble with TS3 does not = your gaming rig sucked. It just doesn't. It's rather insulting when people throw that out as a counter to simmers expressing dissatisfaction with the game's optimization/performance. In the end, there was a lot of agreeance among the community that PCs who met the specifications or barely exceeded them, seemed to run TS3 far better than PCs that dramatically over-exceeded them or did not come close to meeting them. In regard to TS3 it seemed the middle of the road gaming rig was the "just right" sweet spot for the game.

    I do agree that I wish they would upgrade The Sims in general to 64 bit client, but I don't think that will ever happen. They want to reach as many people as possible, and that means 32 bit... which is very frustrating for players seeking more. :/ I do believe they can make a 32 bit game run well even with tons of content if it's optimized correctly. They dropped the ball in TS3 and failed to optimize it like they should have, hopefully they don't do the same in TS4, but only time will tell in that regard. My personal opinion is that TS4 is going to do well in regard to lag and performance, but that's because of the advantage (for the developers) of having load screens to clean up everything in mini bursts of game maintenance. That's a disadvantage for player immersion, but it gives TS4 a leg up in the maintenance department from TS3 (at a cost to the player).

    In regard to downloading mods and tossing a million sims into one venue... of course the game is going to crash. LOL There are already a lot of sims on community lots, to fill them up 5X more than what they are... you'd be swimming through a rave. I'd crash in real life if that many people showed up at my house too. lol The mod reference seems rather irrelevant, unless you are using that example to prove TS4 can't support an open world? Which of course is rather obvious, since it wasn't designed with an open world in mind.

    I was actually using it to reference culling and why they can't do much about it. The game generated x amount of Sims with each load screen...that's just something it does now. So you go to the park, Sims generated, go home, Sims generated, heaven forbid you go anywhere else in between and you could reach your 180 limit quickly. If your game gets to around 500 Sims in a save that you've been using for more than a few days, you'll get some lag and maybe a few crashes. This game is not designed or optimized just like TS3 wasn't. That's my point. The same company made this game. Just because they closed it down doesn't mean there aren't still problems. Actually, this game has way more bugs than we should see this early on. Some that have been there since release and still haven't been addressed. My hope in this team is blah...
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    Ceres_MeirionaCeres_Meiriona Posts: 5,006 Member
    @Mstybl95 Ah I gotcha. Thank you for the explanation. I know they are increasing the culling cap to reflect TS3's culling cap numbers (I never lost sims in TS3 to culling, so that is definitely something they did better in TS3), but that's still not a real fix (in my opinion) for culling in TS4. I would like to see some family tree protection initiated as well as protection for living sims you are friends with. I don't really mind if the friends are culled after they pass, but I definitely don't want to see it happening while they're alive. I do plan to test it out thoroughly, because it is definitely a major flaw in TS4 that needs a reliable fix. I've only crashed once, while operating TS4, though, (I usually have it running all day and do a little big of simming throughout the day in little bursts). I am curious to see what happens after we are loaded with EPs, though. It will certainly determine whether I continue with The Sims franchise (if there is a Sims 5).

    I empathize in regard to not trusting Maxis's commitment to keeping the game optimized and running smoothly. There certainly didn't seem to be much care for that commitment in TS3, and it was a shame because the game had a lot to offer. It does make me edgy, especially with how long culling has taken to fix and the silence on toddlers. Toddlers themselves aren't super important to me (though I'd still like them to be there for immersion), but it's the silence on a major life stage that was promised that is extremely disturbing to me. They do appear to be touching base with the community more in regard to technical difficulties, though, but to be honest I'm never quite sure about my comparison of that, because I didn't frequent the bugs and feedback threads when I was younger (Ts1, Ts2, and Ts3) unless I actually had an issue that needed solving. It wasn't until I got old (and burned up a few cards) that I started to be interested in what is posted there and attempted to keep up to date. So I only have the later days of TS3 to compare their responses to (and those were not favorable days lol).

    Anyway, I hope the cynical sides of us are proven wrong, and that things go well in TS4. Not because I think TS4 is the greatest thing since sliced bread (I have a great time in the game, but it's not without flaws), but because I want to see The Sims continue to grow and move forward in future installments. I hope they can figure out a happy medium between performance, functionality, and player demand.
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    Horrorgirl6Horrorgirl6 Posts: 3,396 Member
    edited November 2015
    Personal I miss open world,I prefer one loading screen . Than multiple lite ones,but hey that my preference. I agree I want ope world like sims 3,but n ot exactly like sims 3.As for lag it rely depend on your computer,and what town you were in.Becaiuse I noticed in Sims 3 some towns worked smother than others.Also it helps in Sims 3 to clean out Dccahced files.
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    zombii3zombii3 Posts: 388 Member
    Here's the thing:

    I love open or open-like worlds.....

    ...In other games but the sims.

    (And I'm getting really, really tired of defending my various opinions about sims3/sims 4. I'm starting to feel why TS4 fans are so agitated with sims 3 fans, and vice-versa...Sheesh... )

    If the programmers can make open world work as smoothly as a AAA open/semi-open game world, then hats off to them, and I'll happily embrace the open world.

    Until then, I'm skeptical if the current devs/programmmers can handle it, lol.

    100% Agree with you.
    It's really tiring to keep defending and reiterating our opinions in different posts on the forums..
    It's starting to feel like we're unable to win either way we look at it.
    • There's people who are 100% happy without open world and don't want it back at all.
    • Then there's the people who hate not having open world and want it back badly.
    • Then there's also us in the middle who would just prefer to have open neighborhoods to save a little on the lag, but also fewer loading screens
    However, having just open neighborhoods may fix the public lot problem they had in Sims 3 where it was like a ghost town.

    I'm just getting the feeling that no matter what they do with The Sims series no one is going to be 100% happy with anything they do.

    But I believe a happy medium would have been to be open neighborhoods, that way it's kind of partial closed, partial open world; and both parties could be happy since it's mostly open yet still closed; AND public lots would be filled with plenty of Sims.

    HOWEVER; this adds in the people who don't like how Sims are loaded into public lots; I'm starting to see people complain that the Sims that are loaded into the public lots or neighborhoods are just "filler". What do you want The Sims team to do? lol. They lose if they don't have enough Sims who show up (like TS3) but they also lose with loading in Sims (like TS4)..

    I completely agree with your view point. If they can get an open world to run very well; then I'll happily accept it; but if it'll be as bug ridden as TS3.. Then I'd rather just pass.
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    Doesn't have a natural reaction system.
    Why do you lie? Of course it does and since recently it even works almost always without any flaws. They are still working on it, though.
    Emotion system is about as basic as it gets, worse than both TS2 and TS3, which is a pretty hard feat.
    It seems you have no clue what the emotion system is about. It not only adds so many layers to the "liveliness" of our sims (since now they have several ways to perform an interaction) but it is also a great "story-telling" tool. It gives me the powers I need to control my environment and how my sims react to it. Finally I have control over the outcome of any conversation (and their autonomous interactions). After all "emotions" were the first attempt of Maxis to do justice to their "you rule" premise of the game.
    The simulation perspective/part shifted back to a "everyday's life"-simulation game (TS3 was a massive town simulation but lacks in delivering a properly "mundane things"-simulation, I mean those little repetetive nuisances of everyday life such as eating together etc.), hence both games don't need to compete with each other about this genre.
    Multi-tasking, emotions and the beautiful small sandbox create an absolutly mind-blowing level of immersion. Let me explain why:
    Having only one lot loaded at a time, allows a more efficient allocation of recources for this particular lot, it really is something what makes the game shine <--> immersion due to eye-candy (graphics, world, fx effects) + gameplay (multi-tasking, very alive sims) is the formula here.
    You see, I think this is the main reason why I love life simulation games. I enjoy getting myself immersed into the everyday life of my sims --> having a nice breakfast with your family, watching TV, sit at work behind the computer etc. . For some it may sound repetetive and boring and I can honestly see that.
    However, life in general has its boring and repetetive routines (everyday socializing, eating, use the bathroom etc.). Compared to any other iteration TS4 delivers here the best experience when it comes to simulating those "little" things.
    I guess it all comes down to personal preferences. Just please - stop with your "TS4 is not a simulation"-nonsense. It certainly is.
    You summed up a lot of my same feelings about this game.
    The multitasking has got to be one of the best features in this game; and also helps make it a more realistic simulation game.
    @Mstybl95 I have always played on a 64 bit desktop... TS3 did lag and crash a lot for me. Wonderful mods like Overwatch and NRAAS in general helped with that as well as awesome community support like Crinrict who taught everyone and their dog how to maintenance your folders so you could squeeze the best performance possible out of the game and protect your saves. Even all those measures, didn't solve the problems, though. It was a poorly optimized game. It had a great concept, with a lot of amazing features, but the features are pointless if you can't play the game because you're crashing or lagging excessively.
    Exactly, I agree.
    However...I shouldn't have to mod a game to be able to even try to enjoy it.
    With the Sims 4 I've needed no gameplay modifications to be able to play it and enjoy it; I haven't seen the need. The only mods I have are cc clothing/etc, and I have the increased household mod.
    I grew tired of the constant maintenance my TS3 game needed so I eventually uninstalled it..I reinstalled it a few days ago but I have yet to touch it.
    They dropped the ball in TS3 and failed to optimize it like they should have, hopefully they don't do the same in TS4, but only time will tell in that regard. My personal opinion is that TS4 is going to do well in regard to lag and performance, but that's because of the advantage (for the developers) of having load screens to clean up everything in mini bursts of game maintenance. That's a disadvantage for player immersion, but it gives TS4 a leg up in the maintenance department from TS3 (at a cost to the player).
    Mmm I honestly don't mind the loading screens if I can actually play the game. Even at that my loading screens are often 1-5 seconds long so it really doesn't break any immersion as compared to the 1-5 second "drive time" that we had if we drove to a lot in TS3.
    So in my personal opinion I don't find a lot wrong with the closed world loading screens.
    In regard to downloading mods and tossing a million sims into one venue... of course the game is going to crash. LOL There are already a lot of sims on community lots, to fill them up 5X more than what they are... you'd be swimming through a rave. I'd crash in real life if that many people showed up at my house too. lol The mod reference seems rather irrelevant, unless you are using that example to prove TS4 can't support an open world? Which of course is rather obvious, since it wasn't designed with an open world in mind.
    I haven't had any crashing problems in regards to the increased household. There's a few tiny glitches maybe; but that'll always be a problem when you mod a game.. I laughed at that comment though; I'd totally have a breakdown if I had that many people in my house or in a community lot. Also yes, I agree with the point that of course Sims 4 couldn't be run as open world, it obviously was never going to be from the start so why would they have added that in to be able to support it..? That point people make always confuses me..
    Mstybl95 wrote: »
    This game is not designed or optimized just like TS3 wasn't. That's my point. The same company made this game. Just because they closed it down doesn't mean there aren't still problems. Actually, this game has way more bugs than we should see this early on. Some that have been there since release and still haven't been addressed.
    I agree with this to an extent.. I've had far less crashes/bug problems than in TS3, not to say there aren't any. And even in TS3 there are still some bugs in it that were there since the beginning. There's just not really anyway to get away from them sometimes. However, with regards to the comment about the amount of bugs this early on.. I don't quite understand? Would you expect there to be more bugs later on..?
    Of course the game is going to have quite a few bugs in it's early stages and especially since this game was pretty much rushed to be finished and they actually ran out of time? Of course I understand that there will be and are bugs in the game. I won't call them out on it because it's really not fair to; they were rushed, ran out of time, and there are some bugs because of it..not really the teams fault as much as it is their bosses fault. Imo.
    I think the point being made is that, open world =/= lag, poor performance. A well optimized open world sims game WITHOUT any lag or issues should be possible now, thanks to advances in computing power and better programming know how. Look at GTA V, which is open world and huge, and there are no loading screens other than missions/jobs.
    GTA is a completely different game/program/software/engine all together; and even that game isn't perfect in comparison.
    Rockstar Games =/= SmartSim.
    The Sims 4: Game Engine & SmartSim Technology. During Sims Camp and the EA Press Conference, Maxis confirmed that The Sims 4 is being built on an all new Game Engine, and is coupled with the all new “SmartSim“ Technology.
    Sorry but of course a new engine may not be able to handle something as big as RAGE can (like GTAV, Max Payne, Red Dead, etc)
    Also we've seen The Sims try open world and totally fail at it.
    I highly doubt the team would have found the answers to open world between TS3 and TS4. The team starts working on the next Sims game while still working on the current one, so I just don't see any logic in that they should have been able to have TS4 be open world.

    Sure, if they started working on TS5 now and were planning on open world or semi-open world from the get go, they may be able to pull it off.
    Like you, I'm not letting The Sims 3 100% color my opinion of an open world in The Sims. As you say, we've only The Sims 3 to go on, but I think they can do better. They can always hire experts to help them if they lack the specific skill-set to make an open world problem free.
    I am trying to do the same and trying to not let TS3 problems affect my opinions about open world. But I have to say I am glad they didn't try to do it with TS4. It'll give them more of a break and see maybe where they went wrong with it in TS3 and maybe be able to fix something or find someway to make it a better open world for TS5.


    Anyway sorry for the long post and multiple quotes. I just wanted to respond to so many people that it just grew.
    However, I'd love to continue this discussion because I believe it's going places in this thread, and the fact that everyone has stayed pretty much on topic (and have been able to actually have intelligent conversations about this topic) has made me happy and want to discuss further with all of you. Love and hugs ♥♥
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    james64468james64468 Posts: 1,276 Member
    james64468 wrote: »
    My opinion is they should have options for people that don't want open world and people that want world. It be the best of two worlds.

    Perhaps but I think the world design is the foundation for the game so that "option" essentially would mean writing two games. Not going to happen ever. Design choices have to be made then lived with. They can never please everyone.

    It depends if they can make it where the world can be divided up. Like One part is where the sims live and grocery store area. You could have downtown to that world. (late night and etc.. and jobs) It would be hard to do that but it not impossible. Programming is about finding solutions to problems.
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    simsgal2227simsgal2227 Posts: 12,279 Member
    One of the main reasons I barely played sims 4 was due to the neighborhood being closed. I knew that from the start, though, when I bought it. The world was also tiny. You can't place your own lots either. When I play sims 3, I play in huge neighborhoods and completely customize it.

    When I made my one and only house in sims 4, the lack of options made me sad. Sure there are a few good things about building in sims 4, but the roof options and wall and room options aren't enough. I can make way cooler buildings with sims 3. I also way prefer sims 3's graphics, aside from the sims, but look great with CC skin.

    I really do hope that with sims 5, they make it a 64 bit game, so that it can handle more memory, and therefore be open world and work well. I prefer lag over hamster-cage playing.
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    TheMomminatorTheMomminator Posts: 4,215 Member
    I think their response to the claims of empty lots in TS3 led to some very poor design choices. We can debate the open v. closed world with good points on both sides but the addition of scads of homeless sims(The Trudgers) whose only purpose was to fill public areas was very poor. It has lead to the culling problem which is a huge issue that has proven very difficult for them to fix. My guess is that they will release more than one patch attempting to fix it before they get a handle on it. I also foresee that it is a problem they can make better but never truly fix.

    Personally, I never had empty lots in TS3. I usually had 5-6 sometimes more sims in lots. It was fine for me. They were all sims who lived someplace in town and contributed to the feel of community. The Trudgers are just filler to try to provide the illusion of a bustling community.
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    soccergirl0426soccergirl0426 Posts: 135 Member
    I definitely miss the open world. To me, (feel free to disagree) but the closed world seems disjointed and is very superficial to me. The open world (TS3) gave me a very long load time, but it was worth it. At this point, I think it would be impossible for EA to add in an open world to TS4.
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    debbo123debbo123 Posts: 13 New Member
    A lot of Sims fans are casual gamers so don’t own the high end computers and gaming laptops with built in graphic cards that the more hard core gamers have. If EA decide to make TS4 or even TS5 open world they will be alienating a huge chunk of their market.
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    KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    debbo123 wrote: »
    A lot of Sims fans are casual gamers so don’t own the high end computers and gaming laptops with built in graphic cards that the more hard core gamers have. If EA decide to make TS4 or even TS5 open world they will be alienating a huge chunk of their market.
    I highly, highly doubt that or Sims 3 would've bombed.

    Also, they're alienating a huge chunk of their market now, so I don't think that factors in.
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    debbo123debbo123 Posts: 13 New Member
    > @SweetieKaye said:
    > debbo123 wrote: »
    >
    > A lot of Sims fans are casual gamers so don’t own the high end computers and gaming laptops with built in graphic cards that the more hard core gamers have. If EA decide to make TS4 or even TS5 open world they will be alienating a huge chunk of their market.
    >
    >
    >
    > I highly, highly doubt that or Sims 3 would've bombed.
    >
    > Also, they're alienating a huge chunk of their market now, so I don't think that factors in.

    Who are they alienating then? Those who have higher end machines will still play TS4 even if they whinge about the lack of open world, whereas people with lower end machines wouldn't be able to play full stop. If people are that desperate for open word they can go back to TS3. Why do you think they cut out the open world? I recall their very words were they 'wanted to make the game more accessible for people with lower end machines'. Best decision they could have made.
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    KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    debbo123 wrote: »
    > @SweetieKaye said:
    > debbo123 wrote: »
    >
    > A lot of Sims fans are casual gamers so don’t own the high end computers and gaming laptops with built in graphic cards that the more hard core gamers have. If EA decide to make TS4 or even TS5 open world they will be alienating a huge chunk of their market.
    >
    >
    >
    > I highly, highly doubt that or Sims 3 would've bombed.
    >
    > Also, they're alienating a huge chunk of their market now, so I don't think that factors in.

    Who are they alienating then? Those who have higher end machines will still play TS4 even if they whinge about the lack of open world, whereas people with lower end machines wouldn't be able to play full stop. If people are that desperate for open word they can go back to TS3. Why do you think they cut out the open world? I recall their very words were they 'wanted to make the game more accessible for people with lower end machines'. Best decision they could have made.
    This is an opinion, not a fact.

    I could also say those who are so desperate not to have the open world can go back to TS2, but that's not exactly kind, is it?

    If you want to make that argument, there can be two games with open world and two games without it.

    As for who they're alienating, go talk to all who've dropped Sims 4 due to what its lacking.
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    debbo123debbo123 Posts: 13 New Member
    > @SweetieKaye said:
    > debbo123 wrote: »
    >
    >
    >
    > This is an opinion, not a fact.
    >
    > I could also say those who are so desperate not to have the open world can go back to TS2, but that's not exactly kind, is it?
    >
    > If you want to make that argument, there can be two games with open world and two games without it.
    >
    > As for who they're alienating, go talk to all who've dropped Sims 4 due to what its lacking.

    I never stated that it was a fact...it's my opinion

    Surely a two games with and two games without open world argument means TS4 would be no open world and TS5 with?

    Hardly seems like that many have dropped TS4. Looking through the forums it seems like majority are actually all for dropping the open world.
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    KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    debbo123 wrote: »
    > @SweetieKaye said:
    > debbo123 wrote: »
    >
    >
    >
    > This is an opinion, not a fact.
    >
    > I could also say those who are so desperate not to have the open world can go back to TS2, but that's not exactly kind, is it?
    >
    > If you want to make that argument, there can be two games with open world and two games without it.
    >
    > As for who they're alienating, go talk to all who've dropped Sims 4 due to what its lacking.

    I never stated that it was a fact...it's my opinion

    Surely a two games with and two games without open world argument means TS4 would be no open world and TS5 with?

    Hardly seems like that many have dropped TS4. Looking through the forums it seems like majority are actually all for dropping the open world.
    The majority are also all for keeping toddlers out of the game. Your point?

    You asked who they were alienating and I answered that. I'm not playing 20 questions here.
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    jimmysnanjimmysnan Posts: 8,303 Member




    All the drama is not worth it, in the long run it is all opinion. Not that I am specifically blaming anyone specifically for causing the drama. It is a game and we all play differently, we all want different things in the game. EA is silent and that causes speculation and strife with the simmers. We all need to try to allow each other to have an opinion without getting upset about it. It really is not worth it, in the end we will get what we get and we will either love it of not and will play the game or not.
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    debbo123debbo123 Posts: 13 New Member
    > @SweetieKaye said:
    > debbo123 wrote: »
    >
    >
    >
    > The majority are also all for keeping toddlers out of the game. Your point?
    >
    > You asked who they were alienating and I answered that. I'm not playing 20 questions here.

    Your last post does not make sense. Where in my posts did I mention anything about toddlers. Why does that even come into it! Your just replying for the sake of it now because you want the last word. No need to reply.
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    KayeStarKayeStar Posts: 6,715 Member
    debbo123 wrote: »
    > @SweetieKaye said:
    > debbo123 wrote: »
    >
    >
    >
    > The majority are also all for keeping toddlers out of the game. Your point?
    >
    > You asked who they were alienating and I answered that. I'm not playing 20 questions here.

    Your last post does not make sense. Where in my posts did I mention anything about toddlers. Why does that even come into it! Your just replying for the sake of it now because you want the last word. No need to reply.
    You don't need to reply either, but you did.

    That was meant to be an anology. If the majority likes/loves Sims 4, then duh they're in favor of the open world being dropped.

    If you don't want someone to reply, don't speak in a public space.
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