Logically it means that more people should be returning the game for a refund than the number of new sold copies. Something some of the haters probably would love
(Nevermind)
I think what makes me most annoyed with this comment besides the obvious flamebait is this: when disappointed fans complain about the game and say they are leaving or not buying TS4 or point out the game's flaws, what is the first argument hurled at them?
"Be patient."
Maxis says this. Fans say this.
And then a year later, out of the blue, in comes a fan who mocks those of us who didn't return the game day one.
Palm, meet Face.
Another thing i often heart:"If you don't like it, just don't buy it". It was the ultimate "As long as you're giving them money, your "whining" is not believable"-trolling.
Now we're doing exactly that (or some finally discover, other people have been doing it all along) and still members come in hear to troll us. Just shows they can't accept differing opinions.
Glad we're getting back on topic, folks Thank you!
Anyway, I posted something along the lines that we wouldn't put $1.50 in a vending machine again if the first time we did we got stale crisps and yet we'll put over $100 into an $80 stale game... each time acknowledging as we do so that all we got was more staleness. It's weird how that works.
Although, and I'd have to look this up to verify it because I'm not sure (so don't take my word for it!), I believe I've read something about how when consumers pay more for something they don't like their brain tries to convince them that they do. It's like this warring state of emotion, whereas if they don't pay a lot for it, then they have nothing to reconcile so they can just dismiss it. I'll have to look for this.
I think that not just money but also a lot of time was invested in the sims, so it's hard for some to walk away... hence the "I'll just buy one more pack and hope it's the one" mentality is easy to develop.
@nanashi-sims I think you are talking about some research that's been done on why people do things.
Other example is about why people spend a little money in the hope of making a lot (gambling). The answer is the cost is small and the potential reward is great.
The other thing is sunk costs. People have already spent a reasonable amount on the base game and they don't want to toss it out. That's probably why I still have it installed.
Although they have spent that money and don't like what they got they keep spending smaller amounts to try to make it better. But it isn't working. But they keep trying and hoping. The more they spend the harder it is going to be to acknowledge they are not getting value for money.
Then they tell themselves they are supporting the product to give it a chance to improve with time and more money. They think if everyone else supports it too then it will eventually be good and everyone will be happy.
For them to win with this strategy they are depending on lots of other people doing the same thing. They can't keep the company afloat on their own. So they try to encourage or shame others to see the benefit of their strategy.
Unfortunately, some people don't believe that strategy will work because they believe that strategy is simply rewarding a big corporation for providing a shoddy product. There is no reason for the product to improve if people keep buying it. Keeping on buying without complaint will simply encourage those making the product to rub their hands with glee and continue pushing out the same product.
The added problem with this particular product is the company in question has a target audience for the product that doesn't seem to include the existing, long term customers.
Of course, there are also a lot of people who love the game as it is and don't want it to change. Some of them would be delighted if those of us who don't enjoy the game would continue pumping money into it thereby ensuring continued availability of new content they can enjoy.
I think we should tweet about this pledge to IGN, Game Spot and the likes. It should get more publicity. Not just the sims community but the whole game industry should know that players are very upset and disappointed about this game. If EA would make nothing maybe another game company would do something one day about it. The most important now is to spread words about this pledge within the sims community and also to the game industry as a whole.
Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
Is lack of transparency is a good thing for Maxis / EA?
I would have to say no, it isn't. In fact it is this lack of transparency that has brought on the situation we have now. If EA had been up front and frank about what was going to be done for the game right from the beginning then the blow Rachel dealt would've been lessened. The trouble is EA have not only permitted but have encouraged people to keep believing in this false hope that sooner or later things like toddlers will be coming. If they had absolutely no intention of adding them which it does now sound as though that is the case then they should've nipped it in the bud back in September last year.
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this?
Yes, it is totally OK to boycott a product that you are unhappy with; however I feel as though it is very easy to be swept up in the moment especially when someone is feeling very passionate about what is happening. For example: I am someone who is presently boycotting the franchise, however I will not sign the pledge because I cannot predict what EA are going to do in the future and if future releases appeal to what I am looking for from the game and show a shift in their attitude towards myself and customers like myself then I am going to buy them. Because of this I don't feel like putting my name down on a dotted line and pledging something I may very well go back on later.
I personally believe talking about boycotting is absolutely acceptable, but at the end of the day we're in EA's playground and regardless of free speech and whatnot EA are quite within their rights to take the only ball and go home. If they choose to remove posts encouraging discontent then they're free to do so - it's up to us as individuals to decide whether we're OK with them doing that. If we're not then all the more reason to not give them more money.
And in regards to the current state of TS4 game, do you "get it"? If you do, what specifically about this game makes you keep playing? If you don't, why not?
I'm a gamer and no I don't "get it". I thought I did when the base game came out because despite what was missing I thought they'd set up something solid to be built upon in the future. I originally kept playing the base game because I was probably in that weird honeymoon period because I just never took to or even saw the point of what TS3 had accomplished like other people did.
Seeing a lot of my complaints about that game fixed was freaking great and for that reason I was able to really play and enjoy my game whilst overlooking it's obvious shortcomings. The rot set in after a little while of course and at that time the game was also not performing very well, so while I liked the sound of Get To Work I was hesitant to spend money on it in case EA pulled a Sim City. Since Get To Work (and heck, including Get To Work) we've had nothing but single-sim party-themed content so I'm actually glad I chose not to invest more into it. The only pack so far that actually has content that isn't just for adults is the camping GP and that's minimal.
I just don't get the direction at all. Why have we gone from a game that attempted to cater towards as many different playstyles as possible to a game that only seems to have one thing in mind? I'm not a family player, but I enjoy the generations and the generations are being wasted. Never mind talk of toddlers; children, teenagers and elders are not catered to in the slightest. Why did they even add them? Are they just accessories to further flesh out adult gameplay? Even TS3, a game I detested, catered more towards me and the way I liked to play than this game does. The fact Rachel herself doesn't see a problem with this is something else I don't understand. Why is she so happy that her game is so exclusionary? The way she talked about family simmers it was as though everything they'd been doing so far was for them and it was time somebody else got their time to shine - but nothing in TS4 has been made for them.
If Rachel wanted to make an adult party simulator then all the power to her, but why did she think such singular theming would fit with a main Sims title?
I think we should tweet about this pledge to IGN, Game Spot and the likes. It should get more publicity. Not just the sims community but the whole game industry should know that players are very upset and disappointed about this game. If EA would make nothing maybe another game company would do something one day about it. The most important now is to spread words about this pledge within the sims community and also to the game industry as a whole.
That's a bit beyond my scope as I'm going to get back to work and then in my down time crack open my TS2 game again and start poking around in the TS2 forums. That said, @halimali1980 you or others are welcome to do so. I'd totally support you guys
Is lack of transparency is a good thing for Maxis / EA? I can't really answer to what they've been doing. Not engaged enough.
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this? Yes, you exchange your money for goods and services. If they don't meet your expectations, you request a refund or a fix. If you can't get a refund or a fix, you voice your complaint and withhold doing business with them until you feel a satisfactory resolution has been reached. It is also natural to tell your friends to avoid the product to protect them from getting burned and disappointed. If they buy it anyway, then that's on them. But, usually friends tend to listen to their friends. That's how word of mouth works.
And in regards to the current state of TS4 game, do you "get it"? If you do, what specifically about this game makes you keep playing? If you don't, why not? I am not tied to the Sims or Sims 4. I only started playing The Sims a few months apart from each other last year (3, 4, and 2 in that order). 3 was pretty awesome and had lots of details that I enjoyed exploring as I bought all of the expansion packs over the course of last year. Sims 4 was lackluster and boring and "too shiny" (not as in new, but poor, boxy and blurry graphics that always looked like it was coated in a plastic film). Even the packaging was boring. Sims 2 UC was pretty neat with how things worked and very detailed. I can tell The Sims 2 had more varying animation than the others and that deserves some applause.
I haven't played 4 since before the business career was added. I haven't bought anything additional yet because all of it looked the same to me. All of the animation looks exactly the same despite choosing a different text option or using a different object.
Lol I started reading these forum topics again when I saw that last interview mentioned on Twitter. I am not sure how I even found the article. It showed up when I opened my newsfeed.
Anybody remember him? He's the guy that was instrumental in starting the United Farm Workers Union back in 1970. You can google him, but in short...Cesar Chavez led a boycott against the grape farmers from 1965-1970...basically he led farm workers in a strike and many people supported his efforts by pledging not to buy white grapes. This went on for five years, before the grape farmers caved and agreed to supply the better working conditions that the farm workers demanded. A union was born out of a simple grape boycott.
Now, many of you will say that this isn't the same thing, that the famous grape boycott that led to the creation of a union that helped improve working conditions for migrant workers isn't even on a par with boycotting a piece of software. (After all, it's JUST a game).
But the principle remains: If you want things to change, you have to be willing to take a stand. And in this case, it's the customer who has chosen not to buy a product. I think the thing that is disturbing so many TS4 defenders is that we're not doing it quietly. Oh, it's okay for us not to buy the product; we should just keep our mouth shut and go away while we're doing it. They shouldn't have to be confronted with our negativity. I'm sure the grape farmers of forty years ago felt the same way...that people should ignore the plight of the farm worker and continue to buy their excellent product and that the farm worker should be patient while the farmers got around to slowly making improvements (very slowly).
But, the fact remains that there is no valid reason to keep supporting this franchise by continuing to buy a product that many players find lacking and unsatisfactory, in hopes that added content will make the game "better". So far, it hasn't, at least in the opinion of quite a few players. And I seriously think that the reason so many players who love this game are frightened that EA will shut down the franchise, is that they know that boycotts work...and that there are people who will never post on these forums who are already not buying the game, or have pledged privately to themselves that they're not going to buy any expansion packs even if they do have the game. And also, I've read on these forums that their younger family members don't care for this game and prefer the older iterations.
Boycotts work...even if the players aren't openly vocal about it.
In the 1960's early 70's we protested the Vietnam War, we had sit ins and boycotts, and all kinds of things against it. Basically all we got was publicity and sometimes we were arrested. It did not change much. Basically it went on until it ended. The same with the sims 4 in my opinion, it will go on until it ends, whither we boycott or not. Stands are meant to be taken and take them all you want, that is your choice, but developers of the sims 4 can also boycott and take a stand, and I think they have. Not sure that we will make a difference.
You are mistaken. Those protests caused a sitting President to make the decision to not run for re-election, thereby changing the course of history, because as you know, the next President made a decision to withdraw prematurely, and that was *because* of the protests and the desire for national unity. And those very protests were why soldiers returning from 'Nam got treated like dirt when they got home by a lot of you "protesters."
Okay, back on topic now, but you just reinforced my point that protests *can* and *do* change things.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
Is lack of transparency is a good thing for Maxis / EA?
I would have to say no, it isn't. In fact it is this lack of transparency that has brought on the situation we have now. If EA had been up front and frank about what was going to be done for the game right from the beginning then the blow Rachel dealt would've been lessened. The trouble is EA have not only permitted but have encouraged people to keep believing in this false hope that sooner or later things like toddlers will be coming. If they had absolutely no intention of adding them which it does now sound as though that is the case then they should've nipped it in the bud back in September last year.
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this?
Yes, it is totally OK to boycott a product that you are unhappy with; however I feel as though it is very easy to be swept up in the moment especially when someone is feeling very passionate about what is happening. For example: I am someone who is presently boycotting the franchise, however I will not sign the pledge because I cannot predict what EA are going to do in the future and if future releases appeal to what I am looking for from the game and show a shift in their attitude towards myself and customers like myself then I am going to buy them. Because of this I don't feel like putting my name down on a dotted line and pledging something I may very well go back on later.
I personally believe talking about boycotting is absolutely acceptable, but at the end of the day we're in EA's playground and regardless of free speech and whatnot EA are quite within their rights to take the only ball and go home. If they choose to remove posts encouraging discontent then they're free to do so - it's up to us as individuals to decide whether we're OK with them doing that. If we're not then all the more reason to not give them more money.
And in regards to the current state of TS4 game, do you "get it"? If you do, what specifically about this game makes you keep playing? If you don't, why not?
I'm a gamer and no I don't "get it". I thought I did when the base game came out because despite what was missing I thought they'd set up something solid to be built upon in the future. I originally kept playing the base game because I was probably in that weird honeymoon period because I just never took to or even saw the point of what TS3 had accomplished like other people did.
Seeing a lot of my complaints about that game fixed was freaking great and for that reason I was able to really play and enjoy my game whilst overlooking it's obvious shortcomings. The rot set in after a little while of course and at that time the game was also not performing very well, so while I liked the sound of Get To Work I was hesitant to spend money on it in case EA pulled a Sim City. Since Get To Work (and heck, including Get To Work) we've had nothing but single-sim party-themed content so I'm actually glad I chose not to invest more into it. The only pack so far that actually has content that isn't just for adults is the camping GP and that's minimal.
I just don't get the direction at all. Why have we gone from a game that attempted to cater towards as many different playstyles as possible to a game that only seems to have one thing in mind? I'm not a family player, but I enjoy the generations and the generations are being wasted. Never mind talk of toddlers; children, teenagers and elders are not catered to in the slightest. Why did they even add them? Are they just accessories to further flesh out adult gameplay? Even TS3, a game I detested, catered more towards me and the way I liked to play than this game does. The fact Rachel herself doesn't see a problem with this is something else I don't understand. Why is she so happy that her game is so exclusionary? The way she talked about family simmers it was as though everything they'd been doing so far was for them and it was time somebody else got their time to shine - but nothing in TS4 has been made for them.
If Rachel wanted to make an adult party simulator then all the power to her, but why did she think such singular theming would fit with a main Sims title?
I totally agree with this - particularly the 3rd reply - as I agree this, Sims 4, is not a part of the series - it has nothing about it that is even akin to the series. If anything it should have been called Sims 4 Life stories - as just as Sims lIfe stories did not cater to all play styles, neither does this so called Sims 4. I personally never bought any of the Life stories - as my interest was strictly in the Sims series - especially from Sims 2 onward. I had issues playing families in Sims 1 as the poof babies that poofed into being then poofed into the child age - left me shuddering, and cold to the concept. It was a major turn off toward the game - I even mentioned that when I tested Sims 1 and that was before we had ever had a game such as this. But there was absolutely nothing else about the Sims 1 I found I didn't absolutely love. It was funny too as of course no one imagined the game would eventually have eps or anything else when we got it to test. It was just the base game with 10 little residental lots and it blew us all away. People were literally mesmerized. So there was no such thing of needing eps - as I said as far as we knew this was the game - just what ended up being the base game. Some people did suggest things they thought the game could have that would make it even more fun, and Will Wright seemed to love some of the ideas. He said once the game came out, if it sold decently that maybe they would add some of the content people were suggesting or maybe even patch in a few things. He did say he was not even very happy with the infant or the morph to child but explained he wanted to include families in the game and that was the idea they came up with for at least the time being.
As sims 1 grew and showed it was successful - Will Wright often still communicated and he seemed to like the idea players had about aging, generations, and even other life stages. There was even an experimental grow the child to teen in Sims 1 toward the end. Will did seem to credit the stages and all the generations to his team in making all that possible in the Sims 2 - he legitimately acted as if it went beyond his wildest dreams as if he had no part what so ever in all that - that made Sims 2 Simply amazing in regards to the family and all stages.
During a Arts and Entertainment Interview on tv sometime after Sims 2 was well out, along by then with several eps and a stuff pack or two, I recall him saying something on the order of ' there I was playing around with the Genie and giving him a voice and look over to see an entire family from newborn to grandpa on the screen' in the Sims. Only of course he said it in his quirky humor style.
But anyway - as you said - and as I agree - I also do not get it - how they even dare call this Sims 4 - because no matter what it is not to me really a part of the series -
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this?
Yes, it is totally OK to boycott a product that you are unhappy with; however I feel as though it is very easy to be swept up in the moment especially when someone is feeling very passionate about what is happening. For example: I am someone who is presently boycotting the franchise, however I will not sign the pledge because I cannot predict what EA are going to do in the future and if future releases appeal to what I am looking for from the game and show a shift in their attitude towards myself and customers like myself then I am going to buy them. Because of this I don't feel like putting my name down on a dotted line and pledging something I may very well go back on later.
I personally believe talking about boycotting is absolutely acceptable, but at the end of the day we're in EA's playground and regardless of free speech and whatnot EA are quite within their rights to take the only ball and go home. If they choose to remove posts encouraging discontent then they're free to do so - it's up to us as individuals to decide whether we're OK with them doing that. If we're not then all the more reason to not give them more money.
Isn't the point of a boycott to change the situation being protested so you can change your mind and re-engage with a company? Signing the pledge is just to give the OP some hard numbers as a showcase piece. It's more for the "shock value" than it is a binding contract or agreement. And who cares if you change your mind and Maxis/EA haven't changed their business practices? One, none of us would know if you did if you didn't say anything, and changing your mind is well within your human rights. Two, you're free to spend your cash however you please. I get that around here there's...how do I put it? Tension? There's the fear of having your face ripped off by one side or the other, and sometimes both at the same time! I get how the fear of the mob would keep one from coming around these parts. Do what you want to do, you have every right to do so even if people flip their lids over something, which, at the end of the day, is pretty insignificant. I mean, making a statement about abusive business practices isn't insignificant across all industries, but your personal choice to buy a video game or not isn't going to substantially affect your life, our ours, or anyone's really...
If the pledge was a binding contract, obviously you don't sign something like that without reading it over carefully; I'd say "Yeah, please don't". But, it's not...you can have your voice heard through the numbers, apparently the only language Maxis speaks anymore, or you can have your voice heard through withholding your cash, or both which is the decision I've made. I signed the pledge because I want Maxis to hear my voice a little bit louder, but I'm not breaking any law or social norms if I buy anything more for The Sims 4 in the absence of an operations changes at Maxis/EA. The end goal is to have our displeasure shown in a concrete way in the hopes that all of us who've signed can "go back on our word" as the game slides into a direction more in line with our play styles.
I don't know if my opinion counts as I never even purchased the Sims4 base game. I have loved the Sims series-1,2 and 3-from the beginning but Sims4 went to a place that I personally didn't agree with. It's been disappointing and frustrating for me as I was so excited to see what Sims4 would bring to the awesome Sims series. I thought I would wait to see what happened with Sims4, to see if things changed enough to where I would give in and purchase the base game as well as the EPs, GPs and any SPs that interested me, as I happily did with the other series. That change hasn't happened, in my opinion, so I haven't purchased anything Sims4 related. It makes me sad-I really wanted to love Sims4.
Generally my understanding of the whole point is the stand to ask for change and allow the game to be more inclusive so those left out would be able to enjoy the game. If they somehow performed a miracle and turned stuff around and changed the attitude towards family play and the way they address their customers (and apologise for the poor experience so far) I would likely reconsider my stance and consider buying again.
@WaterHornet Boycotts are never all or nothing. As it was explained before, it was specifically for this EP but people are tweaking their boycott for what suits them. Some are boycotting everything that is TS4, some are boycotting everything that is EA, etc. This is more of an individual design, but because those individuals have some kind of stand, regardless of how they tweaked it for themselves, they're just coming together and doing it all in "one place" so to speak. Some may get what they want while others might not, depending on the goal.
And since boycotts are in place to advocate a goal or terms, if the goal or terms are met, boycotts usually end and people will go ahead and buy or resume their regularly scheduled program. So this definitely isn't a "Never buy or lose your soul" situation.
I don't know if my opinion counts as I never even purchased the Sims4 base game. I have loved the Sims series-1,2 and 3-from the beginning but Sims4 went to a place that I personally didn't agree with. It's been disappointing and frustrating for me as I was so excited to see what Sims4 would bring to the awesome Sims series. I thought I would wait to see what happened with Sims4, to see if things changed enough to where I would give in and purchase the base game as well as the EPs, GPs and any SPs that interested me, as I happily did with the other series. That change hasn't happened, in my opinion, so I haven't purchased anything Sims4 related. It makes me sad-I really wanted to love Sims4.
You aren't alone and I'd say it counts given your love of the entire series before this. You are basically describing me but you had more sense initially
I've been unintentionally boycotting for a while now. I didn't buy anything before or after GTW. I bought that in the hopes there would be some stuff to do....I mean I had sunk money into the base so why not get some use out if it?.....but it didn't change anything. So I know that with the game play it has now more content isn't going to make a difference so why bother?
"People really love to explore 'failure states. In fact, the failure states are really much more interesting than the success states." ~ Will Wright
I don't know if my opinion counts as I never even purchased the Sims4 base game. I have loved the Sims series-1,2 and 3-from the beginning but Sims4 went to a place that I personally didn't agree with. It's been disappointing and frustrating for me as I was so excited to see what Sims4 would bring to the awesome Sims series. I thought I would wait to see what happened with Sims4, to see if things changed enough to where I would give in and purchase the base game as well as the EPs, GPs and any SPs that interested me, as I happily did with the other series. That change hasn't happened, in my opinion, so I haven't purchased anything Sims4 related. It makes me sad-I really wanted to love Sims4.
You aren't alone and I'd say it counts given your love of the entire series before this. You are basically describing me but you had more sense initially
I bought the base game even though I was disappointed in a lot of the news we got just before release. I didn't feel like I could really judge the game without playing it myself. There was a lot of negativity about TS3 too but I love that game. To each his own.
It was the world design and not the lack of toddlers that made me decide that I wouldn't spend any more money on the game. Outdoor retreat and Get to Work sounded like fun but I knew I would be stuck with the tiny, closed worlds that feel so claustrophobic. Neither of those packs addressed it. They didn't make my town bigger with more places to go or real townies (not Trudgers!) to meet. They just added more bits and pieces.
Nothing about Get Together appeals to me at all. I'm frustrated that they don't seem to "get it". I will continue to refuse to spend a dime on this game until they actually start acknowledging the problems and producing quality packs.
@nanashi-sims I think you are talking about some research that's been done on why people do things.
Other example is about why people spend a little money in the hope of making a lot (gambling). The answer is the cost is small and the potential reward is great.
The other thing is sunk costs. People have already spent a reasonable amount on the base game and they don't want to toss it out. That's probably why I still have it installed.
Although they have spent that money and don't like what they got they keep spending smaller amounts to try to make it better. But it isn't working. But they keep trying and hoping. The more they spend the harder it is going to be to acknowledge they are not getting value for money.
Then they tell themselves they are supporting the product to give it a chance to improve with time and more money. They think if everyone else supports it too then it will eventually be good and everyone will be happy.
For them to win with this strategy they are depending on lots of other people doing the same thing. They can't keep the company afloat on their own. So they try to encourage or shame others to see the benefit of their strategy.
Unfortunately, some people don't believe that strategy will work because they believe that strategy is simply rewarding a big corporation for providing a shoddy product. There is no reason for the product to improve if people keep buying it. Keeping on buying without complaint will simply encourage those making the product to rub their hands with glee and continue pushing out the same product.
The added problem with this particular product is the company in question has a target audience for the product that doesn't seem to include the existing, long term customers.
Of course, there are also a lot of people who love the game as it is and don't want it to change. Some of them would be delighted if those of us who don't enjoy the game would continue pumping money into it thereby ensuring continued availability of new content they can enjoy.
@nanashi-sims I think you are talking about some research that's been done on why people do things.
Other example is about why people spend a little money in the hope of making a lot (gambling). The answer is the cost is small and the potential reward is great.
The other thing is sunk costs. People have already spent a reasonable amount on the base game and they don't want to toss it out. That's probably why I still have it installed.
Although they have spent that money and don't like what they got they keep spending smaller amounts to try to make it better. But it isn't working. But they keep trying and hoping. The more they spend the harder it is going to be to acknowledge they are not getting value for money.
Then they tell themselves they are supporting the product to give it a chance to improve with time and more money. They think if everyone else supports it too then it will eventually be good and everyone will be happy.
For them to win with this strategy they are depending on lots of other people doing the same thing. They can't keep the company afloat on their own. So they try to encourage or shame others to see the benefit of their strategy.
Unfortunately, some people don't believe that strategy will work because they believe that strategy is simply rewarding a big corporation for providing a shoddy product. There is no reason for the product to improve if people keep buying it. Keeping on buying without complaint will simply encourage those making the product to rub their hands with glee and continue pushing out the same product.
The added problem with this particular product is the company in question has a target audience for the product that doesn't seem to include the existing, long term customers.
Of course, there are also a lot of people who love the game as it is and don't want it to change. Some of them would be delighted if those of us who don't enjoy the game would continue pumping money into it thereby ensuring continued availability of new content they can enjoy.
Boycotts actually can prove very effective actually. It is why things like unions work really well in the United States. Boycotting a company will either cause change or cause competition to come in. It was actually quite interesting seeing someone within a community make a competitor site for another site I was on. In the end, the site lost sales and customers with their poor treatment of customers and axing of games and features to cut costs. So either Maxis will start listening to their customers instead of relying on staring at their screen for telemetry figures or competition will come into the market and take some of their customers away. Either way it will help Maxis out. Competition is good for businesses. It helps them work harder.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this?
Yes, it is totally OK to boycott a product that you are unhappy with; however I feel as though it is very easy to be swept up in the moment especially when someone is feeling very passionate about what is happening. For example: I am someone who is presently boycotting the franchise, however I will not sign the pledge because I cannot predict what EA are going to do in the future and if future releases appeal to what I am looking for from the game and show a shift in their attitude towards myself and customers like myself then I am going to buy them. Because of this I don't feel like putting my name down on a dotted line and pledging something I may very well go back on later.
I personally believe talking about boycotting is absolutely acceptable, but at the end of the day we're in EA's playground and regardless of free speech and whatnot EA are quite within their rights to take the only ball and go home. If they choose to remove posts encouraging discontent then they're free to do so - it's up to us as individuals to decide whether we're OK with them doing that. If we're not then all the more reason to not give them more money.
Isn't the point of a boycott to change the situation being protested so you can change your mind and re-engage with a company? Signing the pledge is just to give the OP some hard numbers as a showcase piece. It's more for the "shock value" than it is a binding contract or agreement. And who cares if you change your mind and Maxis/EA haven't changed their business practices? One, none of us would know if you did if you didn't say anything, and changing your mind is well within your human rights. Two, you're free to spend your cash however you please. I get that around here there's...how do I put it? Tension? There's the fear of having your face ripped off by one side or the other, and sometimes both at the same time! I get how the fear of the mob would keep one from coming around these parts. Do what you want to do, you have every right to do so even if people flip their lids over something, which, at the end of the day, is pretty insignificant. I mean, making a statement about abusive business practices isn't insignificant across all industries, but your personal choice to buy a video game or not isn't going to substantially affect your life, our ours, or anyone's really...
If the pledge was a binding contract, obviously you don't sign something like that without reading it over carefully; I'd say "Yeah, please don't". But, it's not...you can have your voice heard through the numbers, apparently the only language Maxis speaks anymore, or you can have your voice heard through withholding your cash, or both which is the decision I've made. I signed the pledge because I want Maxis to hear my voice a little bit louder, but I'm not breaking any law or social norms if I buy anything more for The Sims 4 in the absence of an operations changes at Maxis/EA. The end goal is to have our displeasure shown in a concrete way in the hopes that all of us who've signed can "go back on our word" as the game slides into a direction more in line with our play styles.
It's more of a personal thing for me.
I know none of this is binding and I can spend my money however I want etc etc but it's regularly thrown around these forums that people can "cry" and "whine" all they like but they're still going to buy even when they say they're not going to. In that sense I don't want to encourage this sort of mindset by becoming one of those people who can later be accused of such things.
It pretty much is summed up as: I cannot be bothered dealing with the people who I KNOW are going to be that obsessive about getting to gloat or "win" that they'll search my posting history just to call me on some bull that happened X amount of months ago. I know this is a very weird way of looking at things, but hey at least it means somebody can't use me as a shining example to prove a so-called "point".
Comments
Another thing i often heart:"If you don't like it, just don't buy it". It was the ultimate "As long as you're giving them money, your "whining" is not believable"-trolling.
Now we're doing exactly that (or some finally discover, other people have been doing it all along) and still members come in hear to troll us. Just shows they can't accept differing opinions.
The Essence
How To Lose Your Ugliness in Ten Generations
Anyway, I posted something along the lines that we wouldn't put $1.50 in a vending machine again if the first time we did we got stale crisps and yet we'll put over $100 into an $80 stale game... each time acknowledging as we do so that all we got was more staleness. It's weird how that works.
Although, and I'd have to look this up to verify it because I'm not sure (so don't take my word for it!), I believe I've read something about how when consumers pay more for something they don't like their brain tries to convince them that they do. It's like this warring state of emotion, whereas if they don't pay a lot for it, then they have nothing to reconcile so they can just dismiss it. I'll have to look for this.
I think that not just money but also a lot of time was invested in the sims, so it's hard for some to walk away... hence the "I'll just buy one more pack and hope it's the one" mentality is easy to develop.
Other example is about why people spend a little money in the hope of making a lot (gambling). The answer is the cost is small and the potential reward is great.
The other thing is sunk costs. People have already spent a reasonable amount on the base game and they don't want to toss it out. That's probably why I still have it installed.
Although they have spent that money and don't like what they got they keep spending smaller amounts to try to make it better. But it isn't working. But they keep trying and hoping. The more they spend the harder it is going to be to acknowledge they are not getting value for money.
Then they tell themselves they are supporting the product to give it a chance to improve with time and more money. They think if everyone else supports it too then it will eventually be good and everyone will be happy.
For them to win with this strategy they are depending on lots of other people doing the same thing. They can't keep the company afloat on their own. So they try to encourage or shame others to see the benefit of their strategy.
Unfortunately, some people don't believe that strategy will work because they believe that strategy is simply rewarding a big corporation for providing a shoddy product. There is no reason for the product to improve if people keep buying it. Keeping on buying without complaint will simply encourage those making the product to rub their hands with glee and continue pushing out the same product.
The added problem with this particular product is the company in question has a target audience for the product that doesn't seem to include the existing, long term customers.
Of course, there are also a lot of people who love the game as it is and don't want it to change. Some of them would be delighted if those of us who don't enjoy the game would continue pumping money into it thereby ensuring continued availability of new content they can enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuW44b3uCMtCSaq4gwC8EZg
I would have to say no, it isn't. In fact it is this lack of transparency that has brought on the situation we have now. If EA had been up front and frank about what was going to be done for the game right from the beginning then the blow Rachel dealt would've been lessened. The trouble is EA have not only permitted but have encouraged people to keep believing in this false hope that sooner or later things like toddlers will be coming. If they had absolutely no intention of adding them which it does now sound as though that is the case then they should've nipped it in the bud back in September last year.
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this?
Yes, it is totally OK to boycott a product that you are unhappy with; however I feel as though it is very easy to be swept up in the moment especially when someone is feeling very passionate about what is happening. For example: I am someone who is presently boycotting the franchise, however I will not sign the pledge because I cannot predict what EA are going to do in the future and if future releases appeal to what I am looking for from the game and show a shift in their attitude towards myself and customers like myself then I am going to buy them. Because of this I don't feel like putting my name down on a dotted line and pledging something I may very well go back on later.
I personally believe talking about boycotting is absolutely acceptable, but at the end of the day we're in EA's playground and regardless of free speech and whatnot EA are quite within their rights to take the only ball and go home. If they choose to remove posts encouraging discontent then they're free to do so - it's up to us as individuals to decide whether we're OK with them doing that. If we're not then all the more reason to not give them more money.
And in regards to the current state of TS4 game, do you "get it"? If you do, what specifically about this game makes you keep playing? If you don't, why not?
I'm a gamer and no I don't "get it". I thought I did when the base game came out because despite what was missing I thought they'd set up something solid to be built upon in the future. I originally kept playing the base game because I was probably in that weird honeymoon period because I just never took to or even saw the point of what TS3 had accomplished like other people did.
Seeing a lot of my complaints about that game fixed was freaking great and for that reason I was able to really play and enjoy my game whilst overlooking it's obvious shortcomings. The rot set in after a little while of course and at that time the game was also not performing very well, so while I liked the sound of Get To Work I was hesitant to spend money on it in case EA pulled a Sim City. Since Get To Work (and heck, including Get To Work) we've had nothing but single-sim party-themed content so I'm actually glad I chose not to invest more into it. The only pack so far that actually has content that isn't just for adults is the camping GP and that's minimal.
I just don't get the direction at all. Why have we gone from a game that attempted to cater towards as many different playstyles as possible to a game that only seems to have one thing in mind? I'm not a family player, but I enjoy the generations and the generations are being wasted. Never mind talk of toddlers; children, teenagers and elders are not catered to in the slightest. Why did they even add them? Are they just accessories to further flesh out adult gameplay? Even TS3, a game I detested, catered more towards me and the way I liked to play than this game does. The fact Rachel herself doesn't see a problem with this is something else I don't understand. Why is she so happy that her game is so exclusionary? The way she talked about family simmers it was as though everything they'd been doing so far was for them and it was time somebody else got their time to shine - but nothing in TS4 has been made for them.
If Rachel wanted to make an adult party simulator then all the power to her, but why did she think such singular theming would fit with a main Sims title?
That's a bit beyond my scope as I'm going to get back to work and then in my down time crack open my TS2 game again and start poking around in the TS2 forums. That said, @halimali1980 you or others are welcome to do so. I'd totally support you guys
I can't really answer to what they've been doing. Not engaged enough.
Is it okay to boycott a product that you are unhappy with? If yes, is it okay to talk about this?
Yes, you exchange your money for goods and services. If they don't meet your expectations, you request a refund or a fix. If you can't get a refund or a fix, you voice your complaint and withhold doing business with them until you feel a satisfactory resolution has been reached. It is also natural to tell your friends to avoid the product to protect them from getting burned and disappointed. If they buy it anyway, then that's on them. But, usually friends tend to listen to their friends. That's how word of mouth works.
And in regards to the current state of TS4 game, do you "get it"? If you do, what specifically about this game makes you keep playing? If you don't, why not?
I am not tied to the Sims or Sims 4. I only started playing The Sims a few months apart from each other last year (3, 4, and 2 in that order). 3 was pretty awesome and had lots of details that I enjoyed exploring as I bought all of the expansion packs over the course of last year. Sims 4 was lackluster and boring and "too shiny" (not as in new, but poor, boxy and blurry graphics that always looked like it was coated in a plastic film). Even the packaging was boring. Sims 2 UC was pretty neat with how things worked and very detailed. I can tell The Sims 2 had more varying animation than the others and that deserves some applause.
I haven't played 4 since before the business career was added. I haven't bought anything additional yet because all of it looked the same to me. All of the animation looks exactly the same despite choosing a different text option or using a different object.
Lol I started reading these forum topics again when I saw that last interview mentioned on Twitter. I am not sure how I even found the article. It showed up when I opened my newsfeed.
You are mistaken. Those protests caused a sitting President to make the decision to not run for re-election, thereby changing the course of history, because as you know, the next President made a decision to withdraw prematurely, and that was *because* of the protests and the desire for national unity. And those very protests were why soldiers returning from 'Nam got treated like dirt when they got home by a lot of you "protesters."
Okay, back on topic now, but you just reinforced my point that protests *can* and *do* change things.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
Its nice to see people using thier voice and showing thier opinions, I give you all awesomes
I totally agree with this - particularly the 3rd reply - as I agree this, Sims 4, is not a part of the series - it has nothing about it that is even akin to the series. If anything it should have been called Sims 4 Life stories - as just as Sims lIfe stories did not cater to all play styles, neither does this so called Sims 4. I personally never bought any of the Life stories - as my interest was strictly in the Sims series - especially from Sims 2 onward. I had issues playing families in Sims 1 as the poof babies that poofed into being then poofed into the child age - left me shuddering, and cold to the concept. It was a major turn off toward the game - I even mentioned that when I tested Sims 1 and that was before we had ever had a game such as this. But there was absolutely nothing else about the Sims 1 I found I didn't absolutely love. It was funny too as of course no one imagined the game would eventually have eps or anything else when we got it to test. It was just the base game with 10 little residental lots and it blew us all away. People were literally mesmerized. So there was no such thing of needing eps - as I said as far as we knew this was the game - just what ended up being the base game. Some people did suggest things they thought the game could have that would make it even more fun, and Will Wright seemed to love some of the ideas. He said once the game came out, if it sold decently that maybe they would add some of the content people were suggesting or maybe even patch in a few things. He did say he was not even very happy with the infant or the morph to child but explained he wanted to include families in the game and that was the idea they came up with for at least the time being.
As sims 1 grew and showed it was successful - Will Wright often still communicated and he seemed to like the idea players had about aging, generations, and even other life stages. There was even an experimental grow the child to teen in Sims 1 toward the end. Will did seem to credit the stages and all the generations to his team in making all that possible in the Sims 2 - he legitimately acted as if it went beyond his wildest dreams as if he had no part what so ever in all that - that made Sims 2 Simply amazing in regards to the family and all stages.
During a Arts and Entertainment Interview on tv sometime after Sims 2 was well out, along by then with several eps and a stuff pack or two, I recall him saying something on the order of ' there I was playing around with the Genie and giving him a voice and look over to see an entire family from newborn to grandpa on the screen' in the Sims. Only of course he said it in his quirky humor style.
But anyway - as you said - and as I agree - I also do not get it - how they even dare call this Sims 4 - because no matter what it is not to me really a part of the series -
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Isn't the point of a boycott to change the situation being protested so you can change your mind and re-engage with a company? Signing the pledge is just to give the OP some hard numbers as a showcase piece. It's more for the "shock value" than it is a binding contract or agreement. And who cares if you change your mind and Maxis/EA haven't changed their business practices? One, none of us would know if you did if you didn't say anything, and changing your mind is well within your human rights. Two, you're free to spend your cash however you please. I get that around here there's...how do I put it? Tension? There's the fear of having your face ripped off by one side or the other, and sometimes both at the same time! I get how the fear of the mob would keep one from coming around these parts. Do what you want to do, you have every right to do so even if people flip their lids over something, which, at the end of the day, is pretty insignificant. I mean, making a statement about abusive business practices isn't insignificant across all industries, but your personal choice to buy a video game or not isn't going to substantially affect your life, our ours, or anyone's really...
If the pledge was a binding contract, obviously you don't sign something like that without reading it over carefully; I'd say "Yeah, please don't". But, it's not...you can have your voice heard through the numbers, apparently the only language Maxis speaks anymore, or you can have your voice heard through withholding your cash, or both which is the decision I've made. I signed the pledge because I want Maxis to hear my voice a little bit louder, but I'm not breaking any law or social norms if I buy anything more for The Sims 4 in the absence of an operations changes at Maxis/EA. The end goal is to have our displeasure shown in a concrete way in the hopes that all of us who've signed can "go back on our word" as the game slides into a direction more in line with our play styles.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
And since boycotts are in place to advocate a goal or terms, if the goal or terms are met, boycotts usually end and people will go ahead and buy or resume their regularly scheduled program. So this definitely isn't a "Never buy or lose your soul" situation.
You aren't alone and I'd say it counts given your love of the entire series before this. You are basically describing me but you had more sense initially
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I feel the same way.
It was the world design and not the lack of toddlers that made me decide that I wouldn't spend any more money on the game. Outdoor retreat and Get to Work sounded like fun but I knew I would be stuck with the tiny, closed worlds that feel so claustrophobic. Neither of those packs addressed it. They didn't make my town bigger with more places to go or real townies (not Trudgers!) to meet. They just added more bits and pieces.
Nothing about Get Together appeals to me at all. I'm frustrated that they don't seem to "get it". I will continue to refuse to spend a dime on this game until they actually start acknowledging the problems and producing quality packs.
Yes, I found it, it is the sunk cost fallacy
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/how-the-sunk-cost-fallacy-makes-you-act-stup+id.html
(remove the + in stup+id)
Unfortunately your link doesn't work because the last word turned into Plum. But I'll substitute the correct word now I see it in the quote.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuW44b3uCMtCSaq4gwC8EZg
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
It's more of a personal thing for me.
I know none of this is binding and I can spend my money however I want etc etc but it's regularly thrown around these forums that people can "cry" and "whine" all they like but they're still going to buy even when they say they're not going to. In that sense I don't want to encourage this sort of mindset by becoming one of those people who can later be accused of such things.
It pretty much is summed up as: I cannot be bothered dealing with the people who I KNOW are going to be that obsessive about getting to gloat or "win" that they'll search my posting history just to call me on some bull that happened X amount of months ago. I know this is a very weird way of looking at things, but hey at least it means somebody can't use me as a shining example to prove a so-called "point".