I'm not an expert, far from it but common sense tells us that toddler intergration within the game is a very delicate process. As I said before, they will need to be put in the game for everyone or no one. Imagine all the bugs it would cause if some had them and some didn't? It would be insane. The only way to put them in everyone's game would be a free patch. The question is, are they going to put time and effort into toddlers when they know they can't make any money from them?
I think the only way they'd do that is if enough people swore off the game and all it's add-ons until they are put back in. Then it would be a case of actively losing money if they didn't. Right now, I doubt that's a big issue because enough people still believe they are coming. The more time that passes without word, the more that hope is lost in fans so they will start losing more and more of us in the coming months.
LOL if the Sims 4 isn't strong enough to handle toddlers, what makes you think it is strong enough to handle things like Seasons, Pets, Supernaturals, etc.? Only difference between a patch and an EP or GP is one is paid and the other two aren't. The way the EPs and GPs are set up are like content downloads, it's digital since it is tied to Origin. All the Sims 4 games are set up like DLC now. Don't believe me, look up the direction that EA is heading towards of making all games digital. But yeah it's just another let's blame Simmers for EA's decisions thread, just something to try to riles others up about. I'm not buying the excuses anymore. I didn't set my expectations high. I expect plum from each patch now, so no I wasn't disappointed even though I miss toddlers.
Anyway I'm happier the loading screens are redesigned for migraine sufferers. It wasn't nice Simmers suffered in physical pain while playing the game.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
1.) I didn't say you wouldn't get them in a patch.
2.) I didn't say you would ONLY get them in an expansion.
I meant that they would come with a patch at the time of the expansion's release.
It will patch the game for both base game players AND expansion users.
I'm saying that the development resources available would be spent on an expansion that adds things both in an expansion AND the base game.
It's just too big to be a free monthly patch.
They'd have to sell it as an expansion to the bean counters, and slide the basics of toddler features to us as a base game up date. Most of the good stuff would be in the expansion.
Also, I still feel that when a player assumes any update is Toddler oriented, they're setting themselves up for a let down.
LOL if the Sims 4 isn't strong enough to handle toddlers, what makes you think it is strong enough to handle things like Seasons, Pets, Supernaturals, etc.? Only difference between a patch and an EP or GP is one is paid and the other two aren't. The way the EPs and GPs are set up are like content downloads, it's digital since it is tied to Origin. All the Sims 4 games are set up like DLC now. Don't believe me, look up the direction that EA is heading towards of making all games digital. But yeah it's just another let's blame Simmers for EA's decisions thread, just something to try to riles others up about. I'm not buying the excuses anymore. I didn't set my expectations high. I expect plum from each patch now, so no I wasn't disappointed even though I miss toddlers.
Anyway I'm happier the loading screens are redesigned for migraine sufferers. It wasn't nice Simmers suffered in physical pain while playing the game.
The Sims 4 can handle them, making them might be the worst part, concept arts, modeling them, coding their "bodies" so that all the manipulation points can work well,give them animations, give the present lifestages animations to work with them, add a toddler button in the Cas UI, clothes, objects, making sure game runs smooth, etc.
If they can cram all patches for TS3 into one 1.6GB free patch for those of us who have only recently bought TS3, they can add toddlers in a free patch.
If they can cram all patches for TS3 into one 1.6GB free patch for those of us who have only recently bought TS3, they can add toddlers in a free patch.
Edited to add the word free since I left it out.
I'm not talking about file size. I was referring to development time and the amount of resources that would go into it.
If they can cram all patches for TS3 into one 1.6GB free patch for those of us who have only recently bought TS3, they can add toddlers in a free patch.
Edited to add the word free since I left it out.
I'm not talking about file size. I was referring to development time and the amount of resources that would go into it.
Then perhaps you should change the thread title to reflect what you mean.
The Sims 4 can handle them, making them might be the worst part, concept arts, modeling them, coding their "bodies" so that all the manipulation points can work well,give them animations, give the present lifestages animations to work with them, add a toddler button in the Cas UI, clothes, objects, making sure game runs smooth, etc.
Well it's up to EA if they want customers to keep buying their products or not. Toddlers is a highly demanded feature. If they aren't returning, I want to hear it directly from Maxis that it is not possible to have them return so that I and others can move on from the Sims 4. Nothing is easy in life and I don't expect games to be much different. But it is Maxis' job to make high quality games. It's just silly after 15 years of them making the Sims games, the Sims 4 is the first of the series to get the too hard and too expensive excuse. No I didn't expect them to return with this patch, but I think it's unfair that Simmers keep speaking on behalf of Maxis of what is and isn't possible for the game to do. All life stages were promised before the release of the Sims 4 to be included into the game. So were cars. But they were put in the backburner for features that are still having issues 8 months after the release. So yes I expect the best from Maxis to be able to fix bugs and put out highly requested content. I'm happy with the bug fixes, but yes I think it's understandable for Simmers to be upset when Star Wars costumes and gnomes are given priority for demanded features like toddlers, cars, family tree fixes, emotion fixes, AI fixes, musical cars, and locked doors among so many other things.
I do think the engine can handle them too but this thread made it seem like the engine being weak was an excuse. We have no idea what the engine can and cannot handle. We have no idea what the direction or vision of the game is either.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
Rachel told us the only reason they didnt ship in the base *on release day* was because they 'ran out of time'. On a self imposed time limit. I will not reward cuts to quality by investing further in this game, because you know what? Next time they make a budget for the sims if they 'get away with' selling us back staples like toddlers then they will cut further because they will know we are accepting being treated that way.
They barely announced no toddlers before release. What two months before release? Are sims fans supposed to expect to be let down so much by EA that we have to check exactly what is coming after fifteen years of supporting this game?!
The 'fault' is not with the players. Its with the service we are being given. And take note. This time its toddlers, but whats to say next time its not the features you love the most in the sims?!
It is appalling to think that they originally told us toddlers would be in the game and they got away with releasing it without them. And here we are, all this time down the road, still without them.
Well, I don't care any more. The whole situation is a total fiasco and it's time to leave it behind and get on with other things.
Disagree with OP.
I don't think toddlers are "too big" to be patched in.
I think EA is just trying to steer the game in a different direction,
which is definitely disappointing many sims fans.
I'm at a point where I just have my fingers crossed for toddlers in TS4
& playing TS2 & TS3 where I have the luxury of toddlers.
I don't think they're too 'big' to be put in a free patch. I think they'd make a song and dance of it if they were putting them in a patch, not let it go quietly by. I don't think they'll be in a patch, but a pack.
You might think we're entitled to them if we own the base game, and that's fair, but the truth of the matter is ... it's too much work to just give away.
Toddlers (plus clothing, interactions, and other age specific gameplay unique to that age) will most likely be added in a generations style expansion.
We may get basic toddler content, like their inclusion in the aging cycle, and a handful of CAS bits, but the bulk of content developed will be packaged with an expansion and other features that go along with a generational pack.
I'm sorry we didn't get them today.
But you kinda hyped yourself up over this. You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
I'd be ok with just the basics then buying the rest in an ep. At least we would have the life stage in game even if it was basic. The only reason I feel we should get them patched in is because of the fact we were told they would be in the base game initially. I know they wont patch them in tho.
I just understand that putting everything they have in the works on pause to go back and give us a freebie toddler patch is an unrealistic expectation.
I like to think they've learned enough from the Sims 4's launch to make different choices with content inclusion in the Sims 5, but at this point, we'll have to be patient.
I would, however, agree that releasing pets or any other expansion before a family centered generational expansion would be a bad choice on their part.
BUT
They have development schedules, and will most likely have to publish whatever they already have slated for release before they can get to the toddler stuff
I have a bad feeling you may be coming back to this thread a few times. It's going to be another one of those long ones where future posts are going to be longer than the original and everyone may attempt to counter everyone's point.
Including that one up there.
No, the one in this post. Don't g-NO! STOP! Right there, above the previous sentence.
In all seriousness, I'll agree with you on those points that releasing any EP before the family-centered one is potentially a bad choice and that it will be hyper-analyzed to see "Ok, they can't give us toddlers, but what can they give us in this pack?" I do hope they have something in the works at this point; if they can release them sooner rather than later, it'll at least be some time that they can save when they build content afterwards that toddlers can interact with.
Basic toddlers with basic skills... Potty training, talking, walking would be fine for me for free. Heck I don't even mind paying for them in an expansion considering I plan on getting all of the expansions this time around anyway. I would think toddlers could be worked on right along with working on pets.... Not some big labor intensive thing on their own. I believe like basements, toddlers will be given to us before an expansion, most likely before they release pets or generations. I hope when they are released we can take them on vacation with us. I could imagine some cute vacation ideas for them... Involving buckets of sand and water.... Lol.
I personally don't want toddlers in the game they will be a pain in the butt if they are put in. But I love how adorable they are in TS3 they would be so adorable in TS4.
I don't wanna see Mooriah on your siggy but I know that I can disable siggys if I want, the same way that you can age up toddlers.
Excuse me but disable siggys don't tell me I can just grow up toddlers I have my own opinion. FYI I have had this siggy longer then you have been on the forums.
It's probably just me, but this whole subject is just depressing. I'm still holding on and all that.. but my faith in the developers will end up dropping tremendously.. because the thought that toddlers will never be added (and it can happen) due to the fact that we already have an expansion pack and a game pack that has nothing to do with family.. except the outdoor Retreat.. is a bit family related..
Depending on what's next.. it'll just seem really weird to add them..and that is something I fear. I'm trying to stay positive, but it's hard when there's nothing but silence. Just wish we could get some reassurance. We haven't heard anything about toddlers in almost 9 months and that was only the "reason" they weren't added at launch.
I'm realllly hoping that the next game pack and expansion pack is family/generational play and adds toddlers. Because I just don't see it ever being added if it's not the second pack.
Feels like Sims 3 all over again when it came to proper open for business and being able to run a restaurant. We never truly got it. But with Get To Work... I'm still holding onto hope that toddlers will happen.
I still love the game.. but I feel it's so empty without the family aspects and play-style I enjoy and love.
Then they should give a $20 or is it $30 refund to everyone that bought the base Which was promised to have toddlers but then they got cut. They better do that work or they won't have much more funding coming in at this rate.
You might think we're entitled to them if we own the base game, and that's fair, but the truth of the matter is ... it's too much work to just give away.
Toddlers (plus clothing, interactions, and other age specific gameplay unique to that age) will most likely be added in a generations style expansion.
We may get basic toddler content, like their inclusion in the aging cycle, and a handful of CAS bits, but the bulk of content developed will be packaged with an expansion and other features that go along with a generational pack.
I'm sorry we didn't get them today.
But you kinda hyped yourself up over this. You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
EDIT: 1.) I didn't say you wouldn't get them in a patch.
2.) I didn't say you would ONLY get them in an expansion.
I meant that they would come with a patch at the time of the expansion's release.
It will patch the game for both base game players AND expansion users.
I'm saying that the development resources available would be spent on an expansion that adds things both in an expansion AND the base game.
It's just too big to be a free monthly patch.
They'd have to sell it as an expansion to the bean counters, and slide the basics of toddler features to us as a base game up date. Most of the good stuff would be in the expansion.
Also, I still feel that when a player assumes any update is Toddler oriented, they're setting themselves up for a let down.
EDIT 2: I'm not talking about file size. I was referring to development time and the amount of resources that would go into it.
Basically, we'll most likely have to wait for their development cycle to allow for it to coincide with an expansion. Then toddlers will be added, but a lot of the toddler assets will come in a generational expansion.
Well who gives a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 if it's too much work, the point is we ALL payed, so we ALL deserve to not have basic missing content. Right?
You might think we're entitled to them if we own the base game, and that's fair, but the truth of the matter is ... it's too much work to just give away.
Toddlers (plus clothing, interactions, and other age specific gameplay unique to that age) will most likely be added in a generations style expansion.
We may get basic toddler content, like their inclusion in the aging cycle, and a handful of CAS bits, but the bulk of content developed will be packaged with an expansion and other features that go along with a generational pack.
I'm sorry we didn't get them today.
But you kinda hyped yourself up over this. You kind of have yourself to blame for a portion of the disappointment.
EDIT: 1.) I didn't say you wouldn't get them in a patch.
2.) I didn't say you would ONLY get them in an expansion.
I meant that they would come with a patch at the time of the expansion's release.
It will patch the game for both base game players AND expansion users.
I'm saying that the development resources available would be spent on an expansion that adds things both in an expansion AND the base game.
It's just too big to be a free monthly patch.
They'd have to sell it as an expansion to the bean counters, and slide the basics of toddler features to us as a base game up date. Most of the good stuff would be in the expansion.
Also, I still feel that when a player assumes any update is Toddler oriented, they're setting themselves up for a let down.
EDIT 2: I'm not talking about file size. I was referring to development time and the amount of resources that would go into it.
Basically, we'll most likely have to wait for their development cycle to allow for it to coincide with an expansion. Then toddlers will be added, but a lot of the toddler assets will come in a generational expansion.
Well who gives a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 if it's too much work, the point is we ALL payed, so we ALL deserve to not have basic missing content. Right?
I'm starting to think of my $80 "investment" as more like a fee for Sims rehab... my addiction to the Sims franchise has been cured. -.-
Well who gives a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 if it's too much work, the point is we ALL payed, so we ALL deserve to not have basic missing content. Right?
OK great, everyone is sad, disappointed, angry, etc.... BUT we ALL payed for guess what? we ALL PAYED for a game that was WITHOUT toddlers, now, everyone that bought this game should have known this either from reviews etc, or from playing it, there IS the great game guarantee that if you don't like the game you can return it and get a refund after 24hrs, so you could have easily returned it once you found out there was no toddlers.
Am I disappointed? Yes, and would I like to have them in my game? Sure why not? But the thing is you bought a game that didn't have toddlers, YOU bought, no one forced you to do so and YOU made the choice to buy the game that didn't have toddlers or other "missing' content. Pools, great, ghosts too!
While they did say there would be these things at the release, there wasn't. Did they lie? YEPP! Wait... no not really, they didn't have all the time needed to add it, so instead they just broke the "promise" and release the game without all the stuff. The game that you still bought even though it didn't have all these things like toddlers.
You've gotta weigh out the pros and cons. I did this, sure no toddlers, open world, CAStyle, and cars and all that are cons. But then there are the pros like the new push and pull CAS and easier game play, it works amazing on my Mac compared to the Sims 3. So yeah I went ahead and bought the game, just like you did.
It's like going to McD's and getting mad that the burger isn't like the picture. You know what you're getting and you don't deserve "missing content" or missing meat LOL
It wasn't a case of false advertising. They didn't advertise that the toddlers were in game and then after buying it you go hmm... they lied there are no toddlers. NOPE no NOPE!
You knew there were no toddlers, you bought the game.
Enough said. So why not instead of saying, we DESERVE this and we are ENTITLED to this and FREE this and FREE that, instead use friendly less obnoxious words like, I would LIKE, and we'd LOVE to see this, or I can't wait for, wouldn't it be AMZING if they did this?
I never once said we DESERVE hair for aliens and we are ENTITLED to clothes for aliens, but instead I expressed my feelings and my desire for such features, it was included in today's patch.
If EA sticks toddlers behind a paywall there will be a riot on their hands.
It's bad enough they stay silent on whether or not toddlers can be added. They also pretend to listen to their fans. Who clamored for a luxury stuff pack to come up next in the pipeline? Are you freaking kidding me??
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I think the only way they'd do that is if enough people swore off the game and all it's add-ons until they are put back in. Then it would be a case of actively losing money if they didn't. Right now, I doubt that's a big issue because enough people still believe they are coming. The more time that passes without word, the more that hope is lost in fans so they will start losing more and more of us in the coming months.
No hard feelings!
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Anyway I'm happier the loading screens are redesigned for migraine sufferers. It wasn't nice Simmers suffered in physical pain while playing the game.
2.) I didn't say you would ONLY get them in an expansion.
I meant that they would come with a patch at the time of the expansion's release.
It will patch the game for both base game players AND expansion users.
I'm saying that the development resources available would be spent on an expansion that adds things both in an expansion AND the base game.
It's just too big to be a free monthly patch.
They'd have to sell it as an expansion to the bean counters, and slide the basics of toddler features to us as a base game up date. Most of the good stuff would be in the expansion.
Also, I still feel that when a player assumes any update is Toddler oriented, they're setting themselves up for a let down.
The Sims 4 can handle them, making them might be the worst part, concept arts, modeling them, coding their "bodies" so that all the manipulation points can work well,give them animations, give the present lifestages animations to work with them, add a toddler button in the Cas UI, clothes, objects, making sure game runs smooth, etc.
Edited to add the word free since I left it out.
This is the truth.
Mitakuye oyasin.
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Believe or you will not see.
I'm not talking about file size. I was referring to development time and the amount of resources that would go into it.
Then perhaps you should change the thread title to reflect what you mean.
This is the truth.
Mitakuye oyasin.
To all my relations, keep dancing.
Believe or you will not see.
I do think the engine can handle them too but this thread made it seem like the engine being weak was an excuse. We have no idea what the engine can and cannot handle. We have no idea what the direction or vision of the game is either.
Well, I don't care any more. The whole situation is a total fiasco and it's time to leave it behind and get on with other things.
I don't think toddlers are "too big" to be patched in.
I think EA is just trying to steer the game in a different direction,
which is definitely disappointing many sims fans.
I'm at a point where I just have my fingers crossed for toddlers in TS4
& playing TS2 & TS3 where I have the luxury of toddlers.
I'd be ok with just the basics then buying the rest in an ep. At least we would have the life stage in game even if it was basic. The only reason I feel we should get them patched in is because of the fact we were told they would be in the base game initially. I know they wont patch them in tho.
I like to think they've learned enough from the Sims 4's launch to make different choices with content inclusion in the Sims 5, but at this point, we'll have to be patient.
I would, however, agree that releasing pets or any other expansion before a family centered generational expansion would be a bad choice on their part.
BUT
They have development schedules, and will most likely have to publish whatever they already have slated for release before they can get to the toddler stuff
So ... that's all I have to say about that.
I have a bad feeling you may be coming back to this thread a few times. It's going to be another one of those long ones where future posts are going to be longer than the original and everyone may attempt to counter everyone's point.
Including that one up there.
No, the one in this post. Don't g-NO! STOP! Right there, above the previous sentence.
In all seriousness, I'll agree with you on those points that releasing any EP before the family-centered one is potentially a bad choice and that it will be hyper-analyzed to see "Ok, they can't give us toddlers, but what can they give us in this pack?" I do hope they have something in the works at this point; if they can release them sooner rather than later, it'll at least be some time that they can save when they build content afterwards that toddlers can interact with.
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Depending on what's next.. it'll just seem really weird to add them..and that is something I fear. I'm trying to stay positive, but it's hard when there's nothing but silence. Just wish we could get some reassurance. We haven't heard anything about toddlers in almost 9 months and that was only the "reason" they weren't added at launch.
I'm realllly hoping that the next game pack and expansion pack is family/generational play and adds toddlers. Because I just don't see it ever being added if it's not the second pack.
Feels like Sims 3 all over again when it came to proper open for business and being able to run a restaurant. We never truly got it. But with Get To Work... I'm still holding onto hope that toddlers will happen.
I still love the game.. but I feel it's so empty without the family aspects and play-style I enjoy and love.
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I don't believe we will ever get toddlers. I do believe we will probably get pets. I guess pets are easier.
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Well who gives a 🐸🐸🐸🐸 if it's too much work, the point is we ALL payed, so we ALL deserve to not have basic missing content. Right?
I'm starting to think of my $80 "investment" as more like a fee for Sims rehab... my addiction to the Sims franchise has been cured. -.-
OK great, everyone is sad, disappointed, angry, etc.... BUT we ALL payed for guess what? we ALL PAYED for a game that was WITHOUT toddlers, now, everyone that bought this game should have known this either from reviews etc, or from playing it, there IS the great game guarantee that if you don't like the game you can return it and get a refund after 24hrs, so you could have easily returned it once you found out there was no toddlers.
Am I disappointed? Yes, and would I like to have them in my game? Sure why not? But the thing is you bought a game that didn't have toddlers, YOU bought, no one forced you to do so and YOU made the choice to buy the game that didn't have toddlers or other "missing' content. Pools, great, ghosts too!
While they did say there would be these things at the release, there wasn't. Did they lie? YEPP! Wait... no not really, they didn't have all the time needed to add it, so instead they just broke the "promise" and release the game without all the stuff. The game that you still bought even though it didn't have all these things like toddlers.
You've gotta weigh out the pros and cons. I did this, sure no toddlers, open world, CAStyle, and cars and all that are cons. But then there are the pros like the new push and pull CAS and easier game play, it works amazing on my Mac compared to the Sims 3. So yeah I went ahead and bought the game, just like you did.
It's like going to McD's and getting mad that the burger isn't like the picture. You know what you're getting and you don't deserve "missing content" or missing meat LOL
It wasn't a case of false advertising. They didn't advertise that the toddlers were in game and then after buying it you go hmm... they lied there are no toddlers. NOPE no NOPE!
You knew there were no toddlers, you bought the game.
Enough said. So why not instead of saying, we DESERVE this and we are ENTITLED to this and FREE this and FREE that, instead use friendly less obnoxious words like, I would LIKE, and we'd LOVE to see this, or I can't wait for, wouldn't it be AMZING if they did this?
I never once said we DESERVE hair for aliens and we are ENTITLED to clothes for aliens, but instead I expressed my feelings and my desire for such features, it was included in today's patch.
It's bad enough they stay silent on whether or not toddlers can be added. They also pretend to listen to their fans. Who clamored for a luxury stuff pack to come up next in the pipeline? Are you freaking kidding me??
This era of The Sims is downright embarrassing.