If you are a 'hater' and believe you will not be listened to why are you even here?
Minority? How original. Are you sure? Because I think you're wrong here.
But, well, what is the haters for you? Because I don't see any around here.
The haters is you, in fact. No? Look at that! You blame people who doesn't like Sims 4. You called them haters!
so true. it hurts my feelings when people call me a hater after my long years of supporting sims 2 and 3. i bought every freaking expansions and stuff pack and dlc.
it's my support that helped make the sims 4 possible... and that betrayal is just painful to bear. i wish people wouldn't try to derail threads with their nonsense. they should make their own threads if they want to vent their problem with those of us (longtime loyal customers) who are genuinely disappointed. i love the sims franchise. we should all be in this together.
This is really baffling. I haven't played DA: Inquisition yet but I believe it won Game of the Year and you can tell Bioware put a lot of time into it. Why didn't EA let Maxis do the same? Did they really think so lowly of us that they thought that we would accept an unfinished game without a fuss? We deserve a nice, quality game too.
There's a stigma in the gaming industry known as the 'Duke Nukem Effect'. It's a long story. But in short, the longer a developer takes to release a game, the worse it's reception will be; no matter how good the game is. Maxis lost several years of programming when they had to make a u-turn on the online elements of TS4. It basically came down to either getting the game out as is, where quite a few people still love it, or wait a few more years, where no matter how awesome it is, everyone would claim it was terrible and want to hate it.
Personally, I think TS4 was a perfectly normal release for a game despite the time Maxis lost in its making. I've played many, many games that had way more bugs and way less content for the same price, if not more. I come from an era where 30+ hours of gameplay was considered incredible. I'm at 315 hours in TS4 so far.
Taken from the article-
"It’s ready when it’s ready
So is this the EA maxim now: delay launching if necessary? Wilson says it is. “We decided that we couldn’t get an innovative Need For Speed title out this year so for the first time in 17 years we’re not launching one, we’re giving the team extra time. We moved Titanfall on Xbox One out of our fiscal year; we moved Dragon Age, we moved Hardline. These were difficult decisions. The business of what we do, as measured by the stock price and fiscal returns, has grown - to me that’s reassurance that we’re doing the right thing.”"
To be fair, they did delay TS4 by six months. It was suppose to be out in March 2014. At some point you have to ship, you can't keep delaying something or it will end up like Duke Nukem Forever.
EDIT: Ninja'd by RagingFurball. XD They mentioned the "Duke Nukem Effect" and it was because of Duke Forever. Duke Forever was in development h...limbo for something like fifteen years because of feature creep and an overall lack of direction. When it was released, it was a mess of a game, the lack of direction and focus really showed.
> @jcp011c2 said: > Probably but the people calling the shots are likely giving them gag orders - they can't say a word about anything bad for fear of losing their jobs. To be honest I feel bad for the Devs. I'm sure they wanted to make a better game than they did, and that would have required having more time than they did. I place the blame of the game's state squarely on the higher ups at EA.
Exactly this for me. Granted I can count the amount of developers I know on a personal level on one hand, but those I do ALL want to do the best job they can, whether they develop software, games, mobile apps or whatever. I'd put money on the devs being given a "hurry up" from management and not enough time/budget to do everything they wanted. We get the same where I work with our in-house software, management who know little about the intricacies wanting to push the end result and overlooking the finer details. And we get the same result as TS4 too, bugs and missing content just to hit a deadline, along with very stressed/upset developers that they've released something maybe even they weren't happy with and they know has issues. If they are reading, hang in there devs! We get it, and we're (most of us anyway) here to help you make it better.
Edited to add: I've posted about two of the major bugs I've come across on the EA answers site (and not my own threads), and both times I've been Pm'd and asked to send System specs and a copy of my save game, so they are listening!
Taken from the article-
"It’s ready when it’s ready
So is this the EA maxim now: delay launching if necessary? Wilson says it is. “We decided that we couldn’t get an innovative Need For Speed title out this year so for the first time in 17 years we’re not launching one, we’re giving the team extra time. We moved Titanfall on Xbox One out of our fiscal year; we moved Dragon Age, we moved Hardline. These were difficult decisions. The business of what we do, as measured by the stock price and fiscal returns, has grown - to me that’s reassurance that we’re doing the right thing.”"
To be fair, they did delay TS4 by six months. It was suppose to be out in March 2014. At some point you have to ship, you can't keep delaying something or it will end up like Duke Nukem Forever.
EDIT: Ninja'd by RagingFurball. XD They mentioned the "Duke Nukem Effect" and it was because of Duke Forever. Duke Forever was in development h...limbo for something like fifteen years because of feature creep and an overall lack of direction. When it was released, it was a mess of a game, the lack of direction and focus really showed.
Yes but clearly it wasn't finished on release. Six months delay clearly wasn't sufficient and is nowhere near 15 years. They should have dedicated enough staff and funding to get it done well by September if they were so intent on releasing then. I'm sorry but they've damaged the brand for many customers who have loyally bought everything for the past fifteen years and those others wherever they joined the sims series.
It costs companies more to repair damaged trust than it does to do a good job in the first place, not to mention damaging their reputation further. You would think that after winning those awards for worst company they would take their flagship titles and make sure they were incredible to turn their fortunes around. Especially after the sim city debacle! It's really confusing as to why they thought this situation would be a good idea?
I do hope that the devs knows that some of us are not disappointed by The Sims 4.
You can't honestly expect them to go come out and say "Sorry fans, sorry for failing and disappointing you all for not enjoying The Sims 4" because some people don't enjoy it. Everyone has a different taste, The Sims 4 just happened to not taste good for some people. Like a chef making a cake, some will enjoy it and some won't. Do you expect the chef to come out from the kitchen and say "Sorry for failing in creating this chocolate cake that you didn't like, but our other customers do"? Really? Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
I actually say stuff like that all the time.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
I do hope that the devs knows that some of us are not disappointed by The Sims 4.
You can't honestly expect them to go come out and say "Sorry fans, sorry for failing and disappointing you all for not enjoying The Sims 4" because some people don't enjoy it. Everyone has a different taste, The Sims 4 just happened to not taste good for some people. Like a chef making a cake, some will enjoy it and some won't. Do you expect the chef to come out from the kitchen and say "Sorry for failing in creating this chocolate cake that you didn't like, but our other customers do"? Really? Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
It's not an angry mob. Take it down a notch!
Not everyone is disappointed. But clearly they've upset a fair few people. Only a cursory look all over the internet will show you that-not just these forums. Even their Facebook has it...
If it was just an "angry mob" or a small number of vocal people, then why are the reviews so low across the board compared to previous base games? Why is the disappointment everywhere you look? Even many people who love the game have pet peeves with it or think it could have (or should have) been better. If the higher ups even bother to look at the game reviews (and it'd be pretty reckless if they didn't,) then they know.
Besides that, there are a lot of people who initially really liked it, but got bored/frustrated/bugged to the point where they no longer found it enjoyable. For the price of the game, even people who feel neutral about it are getting a bad taste in their mouths. None of this bodes well and I'm sure they know it's in their best interests to work on it, hence making sure to let us know they will be patching in more content.
And if you still think it's the same old vocal minority, then read threads/posts of people who did the 48 hour trial. These are new members, not people who have been posting forever - and a disproportionate number are either saying they don't like it, or that it isn't worth the asking price, or both.
It isn't going to help the game succeed to keep attacking the people who are trying to provide constructive feedback while waiting and hoping for improvement. If the game improves, we will gladly throw more money at it, and that *will* help the game you currently love become something we can all love. Why would that be a bad thing? Why on earth would anyone want to discourage that?
@SimGuruBChick has already stated in multiple threads that our feedback useful to them and that we should continue to provide it. It seems like the word of a Guru who has followed these forums and is totally aware of what she's saying with that statement should be final.
I do hope that the devs knows that some of us are not disappointed by The Sims 4.
You can't honestly expect them to go come out and say "Sorry fans, sorry for failing and disappointing you all for not enjoying The Sims 4" because some people don't enjoy it. Everyone has a different taste, The Sims 4 just happened to not taste good for some people. Like a chef making a cake, some will enjoy it and some won't. Do you expect the chef to come out from the kitchen and say "Sorry for failing in creating this chocolate cake that you didn't like, but our other customers do"? Really? Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
@Valandis Omg, I love you man. This is what I've been trying to tell people for months. The art gallery metaphor is dead on. Unfortunately it is indeed an angry mob mentality. No matter how you present it to them, they don't care. The standard response from the more common posters here that don't like the game just consists of them copy pasting what they've already said a bajillion times. And if anyone says anything remotely along the lines of 'Yes. We get it. Can you please talk about something else for once?' they'll go off on some free speech tangent like we're not allowed to be fed up with the rhetoric.
It really is the equivalent to them standing at an art gallery, making sure everyone there has heard their speech. Only some people have been keeping at it for months now...
I find it disappointing to hear the same old tired rhetoric about how awful it is to hear other people's opinions, no matter what they are or how articulate. I respect those who embrace everyone-tolerance is truly special in life. Plenty of people on this forum manage perfectly well to get on with people from all viewpoints. It's a shame others shut themselves off from that. They miss out on some wonderful relationships with wonderful people who share a love of the sims.
This forum would be very boring without a wealth of different opinions it currently has.
I do hope that the devs knows that some of us are not disappointed by The Sims 4.
You can't honestly expect them to go come out and say "Sorry fans, sorry for failing and disappointing you all for not enjoying The Sims 4" because some people don't enjoy it. Everyone has a different taste, The Sims 4 just happened to not taste good for some people. Like a chef making a cake, some will enjoy it and some won't. Do you expect the chef to come out from the kitchen and say "Sorry for failing in creating this chocolate cake that you didn't like, but our other customers do"? Really? Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
@Valandis Omg, I love you man. This is what I've been trying to tell people for months. The art gallery metaphor is dead on. Unfortunately it is indeed an angry mob mentality. No matter how you present it to them, they don't care. The standard response from the more common posters here that don't like the game just consists of them copy pasting what they've already said a bajillion times. And if anyone says anything remotely along the lines of 'Yes. We get it. Can you please talk about something else for once?' they'll go off on some free speech tangent like we're not allowed to be fed up with the rhetoric.
It really is the equivalent to them standing at an art gallery, making sure everyone there has heard their speech. Only some people have been keeping at it for months now...
No, it isn't. It's the equivalent of an art critic writing in an art magazine. If you don't like the critics, why read the magazine at all?
@Sparkfairy1 so very true, I think it's great that people on this forum can- for the most part - have civil conversations without necessarily having the same point of view. On the other hand, we all by default are going to think our opinion is the best one, and as such there are times we get over-passionate about defending it - you know I've been there myself from time to time even with you once! But if we can remain steadfast in our efforts to be a civil , it'll be easier to recognize that community and communicate come from the same base word for a reason.
It's kind of sad that I have to point out that anything I say is only just my opinion and may be a different one from someone else.
If you are a 'hater' and believe you will not be listened to why are you even here?
Those who are displeased with Sims 4 are too often called "haters," and frankly, I'm sick of this hate speech and name calling. It's inappropriate and offensive and needs to stop. Now. It's against the forum rules anyway.
@Sparkfairy1 so very true, I think it's great that people on this forum can- for the most part - have civil conversations without necessarily having the same point of view. On the other hand, we all by default are going to think our opinion is the best one, and as such there are times we get over-passionate about defending it - you know I've been there myself from time to time even with you once! But if we can remain steadfast in our efforts to be a civil , it'll be easier to recognize that community and communicate come from the same base word for a reason.
I don't actually think my opinion is the best one. There is no best one. Mine is just the one I understand best and it's how I feel... disagreement on some points doesn't make mine superior or more correct, they just express my feelings on the subject. I can understand where ither people are coming from without feeling the same way that they do. It stretches the brain to see things from other perspectives
Yes, yes they are. Most of us don't hate the game, we are just disappointed. I'd go so far as to say most of us even like the game, and are just disappointed it's not exactly what we were hoping for. I am often disappointed in my children's behavior but I most definitely don't hate them.
Why do people nowadays seem to view any dissension at all as hate??
If you are a 'hater' and believe you will not be listened to why are you even here?
Those who are displeased with Sims 4 are too often called "haters," and frankly, I'm sick of this hate speech and name calling. It's inappropriate and offensive and needs to stop. Now. It's against the forum rules anyway.
This is true. To me ia hater is someone who dislikes something, but refuses to move on simply to continue to be negative about it, yet cannot give any actual reason why they hate it so much. Sadly we do have a very small number of people like that. But being disappointed in a game and being able to, when asked what you don't like about it, give reasons why you feel that way doesn't make one a hater. It makes a disappointed customer, which is a completely different thing.
What's the saying? Hater's gonna hate? It's because that's all they do. They're fairly easy to spot if one makes an effort to look.
.
It's kind of sad that I have to point out that anything I say is only just my opinion and may be a different one from someone else.
@Sparkfairy1 so very true, I think it's great that people on this forum can- for the most part - have civil conversations without necessarily having the same point of view. On the other hand, we all by default are going to think our opinion is the best one, and as such there are times we get over-passionate about defending it - you know I've been there myself from time to time even with you once! But if we can remain steadfast in our efforts to be a civil , it'll be easier to recognize that community and communicate come from the same base word for a reason.
I don't actually think my opinion is the best one. There is no best one. Mine is just the one I understand best and it's how I feel... disagreement on some points doesn't make mine superior or more correct, they just express my feelings on the subject. I can understand where ither people are coming from without feeling the same way that they do. It stretches the brain to see things from other perspectives
I guess that's more what I meant, that we consider our own opinion the best one because it's the one we understand the most. And I completely agree with the rest of what you say.
It's kind of sad that I have to point out that anything I say is only just my opinion and may be a different one from someone else.
If you are a 'hater' and believe you will not be listened to why are you even here?
Nope not hate, I love the Sims I am just not happy with the latest game.
Why am I here? Even if they can not turn Sims flop around, I would like them to NOT FORGET what peoples issues with the game are. So if they were ever to make Sims 5, they won't repeat history. It is all for the future of my favorite franchise!
Now back to the topic of the thread...Do they know? Of course they know. It hasn't exactly been a well kept secret. There is a difference between knowing and being able to do something about it. Can they? I have my doubts about that, but I am watching, and waiting to see what happens.
I do hope that the devs knows that some of us are not disappointed by The Sims 4.
You can't honestly expect them to go come out and say "Sorry fans, sorry for failing and disappointing you all for not enjoying The Sims 4" because some people don't enjoy it. Everyone has a different taste, The Sims 4 just happened to not taste good for some people. Like a chef making a cake, some will enjoy it and some won't. Do you expect the chef to come out from the kitchen and say "Sorry for failing in creating this chocolate cake that you didn't like, but our other customers do"? Really? Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
Sometimes I get the feeling that those who think positively about this game; those who like it, don't get heard as much. I think it gets drowned out by a lot of the negativity within the forums and the community which worries me some. Not a whole lot, but some. I do want to see the things that people have been asking for the return to the game, but I also don't want them to change the game too much in their favor. Completely eliminating my play style for theirs (not that I really think that could happen, but it is something to think about).
Comments
Great words. Thanks for saying our feelings.
[img]http://www.🐸🐸🐸🐸.com/r/bst.gif[/img]
There's a stigma in the gaming industry known as the 'Duke Nukem Effect'. It's a long story. But in short, the longer a developer takes to release a game, the worse it's reception will be; no matter how good the game is. Maxis lost several years of programming when they had to make a u-turn on the online elements of TS4. It basically came down to either getting the game out as is, where quite a few people still love it, or wait a few more years, where no matter how awesome it is, everyone would claim it was terrible and want to hate it.
Personally, I think TS4 was a perfectly normal release for a game despite the time Maxis lost in its making. I've played many, many games that had way more bugs and way less content for the same price, if not more. I come from an era where 30+ hours of gameplay was considered incredible. I'm at 315 hours in TS4 so far.
Simblr: http://raging-furball.tumblr.com
To be fair, they did delay TS4 by six months. It was suppose to be out in March 2014. At some point you have to ship, you can't keep delaying something or it will end up like Duke Nukem Forever.
EDIT: Ninja'd by RagingFurball. XD They mentioned the "Duke Nukem Effect" and it was because of Duke Forever. Duke Forever was in development h...limbo for something like fifteen years because of feature creep and an overall lack of direction. When it was released, it was a mess of a game, the lack of direction and focus really showed.
I laughed so hard on this
> Probably but the people calling the shots are likely giving them gag orders - they can't say a word about anything bad for fear of losing their jobs. To be honest I feel bad for the Devs. I'm sure they wanted to make a better game than they did, and that would have required having more time than they did. I place the blame of the game's state squarely on the higher ups at EA.
Exactly this for me. Granted I can count the amount of developers I know on a personal level on one hand, but those I do ALL want to do the best job they can, whether they develop software, games, mobile apps or whatever. I'd put money on the devs being given a "hurry up" from management and not enough time/budget to do everything they wanted.
We get the same where I work with our in-house software, management who know little about the intricacies wanting to push the end result and overlooking the finer details. And we get the same result as TS4 too, bugs and missing content just to hit a deadline, along with very stressed/upset developers that they've released something maybe even they weren't happy with and they know has issues.
If they are reading, hang in there devs! We get it, and we're (most of us anyway) here to help you make it better.
Edited to add: I've posted about two of the major bugs I've come across on the EA answers site (and not my own threads), and both times I've been Pm'd and asked to send System specs and a copy of my save game, so they are listening!
Yes but clearly it wasn't finished on release. Six months delay clearly wasn't sufficient and is nowhere near 15 years. They should have dedicated enough staff and funding to get it done well by September if they were so intent on releasing then. I'm sorry but they've damaged the brand for many customers who have loyally bought everything for the past fifteen years and those others wherever they joined the sims series.
It costs companies more to repair damaged trust than it does to do a good job in the first place, not to mention damaging their reputation further. You would think that after winning those awards for worst company they would take their flagship titles and make sure they were incredible to turn their fortunes around. Especially after the sim city debacle! It's really confusing as to why they thought this situation would be a good idea?
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
You can't honestly expect them to go come out and say "Sorry fans, sorry for failing and disappointing you all for not enjoying The Sims 4" because some people don't enjoy it. Everyone has a different taste, The Sims 4 just happened to not taste good for some people. Like a chef making a cake, some will enjoy it and some won't. Do you expect the chef to come out from the kitchen and say "Sorry for failing in creating this chocolate cake that you didn't like, but our other customers do"? Really? Are you the type of people who says at an art gallery "This art looks terrible, why are people paying to see this?! Why are people even auctioning it when it looks this bad? His previous works were a lot better!" are you? I'm just saying. Why do I even try? You can't convince an angry mob of anything.
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/758083/petition-to-add-optional-co-op-feature-to-ts4-122-372-signatures/p1
I actually say stuff like that all the time.
It's not an angry mob. Take it down a notch!
Not everyone is disappointed. But clearly they've upset a fair few people. Only a cursory look all over the internet will show you that-not just these forums. Even their Facebook has it...
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
Besides that, there are a lot of people who initially really liked it, but got bored/frustrated/bugged to the point where they no longer found it enjoyable. For the price of the game, even people who feel neutral about it are getting a bad taste in their mouths. None of this bodes well and I'm sure they know it's in their best interests to work on it, hence making sure to let us know they will be patching in more content.
And if you still think it's the same old vocal minority, then read threads/posts of people who did the 48 hour trial. These are new members, not people who have been posting forever - and a disproportionate number are either saying they don't like it, or that it isn't worth the asking price, or both.
It isn't going to help the game succeed to keep attacking the people who are trying to provide constructive feedback while waiting and hoping for improvement. If the game improves, we will gladly throw more money at it, and that *will* help the game you currently love become something we can all love. Why would that be a bad thing? Why on earth would anyone want to discourage that?
@SimGuruBChick has already stated in multiple threads that our feedback useful to them and that we should continue to provide it. It seems like the word of a Guru who has followed these forums and is totally aware of what she's saying with that statement should be final.
@Valandis Omg, I love you man. This is what I've been trying to tell people for months. The art gallery metaphor is dead on. Unfortunately it is indeed an angry mob mentality. No matter how you present it to them, they don't care. The standard response from the more common posters here that don't like the game just consists of them copy pasting what they've already said a bajillion times. And if anyone says anything remotely along the lines of 'Yes. We get it. Can you please talk about something else for once?' they'll go off on some free speech tangent like we're not allowed to be fed up with the rhetoric.
It really is the equivalent to them standing at an art gallery, making sure everyone there has heard their speech. Only some people have been keeping at it for months now...
Simblr: http://raging-furball.tumblr.com
This forum would be very boring without a wealth of different opinions it currently has.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
No, it isn't. It's the equivalent of an art critic writing in an art magazine. If you don't like the critics, why read the magazine at all?
Those who are displeased with Sims 4 are too often called "haters," and frankly, I'm sick of this hate speech and name calling. It's inappropriate and offensive and needs to stop. Now. It's against the forum rules anyway.
I don't actually think my opinion is the best one. There is no best one. Mine is just the one I understand best and it's how I feel... disagreement on some points doesn't make mine superior or more correct, they just express my feelings on the subject. I can understand where ither people are coming from without feeling the same way that they do. It stretches the brain to see things from other perspectives
Yes, yes they are. Most of us don't hate the game, we are just disappointed. I'd go so far as to say most of us even like the game, and are just disappointed it's not exactly what we were hoping for. I am often disappointed in my children's behavior but I most definitely don't hate them.
Why do people nowadays seem to view any dissension at all as hate??
This is true. To me ia hater is someone who dislikes something, but refuses to move on simply to continue to be negative about it, yet cannot give any actual reason why they hate it so much. Sadly we do have a very small number of people like that. But being disappointed in a game and being able to, when asked what you don't like about it, give reasons why you feel that way doesn't make one a hater. It makes a disappointed customer, which is a completely different thing.
What's the saying? Hater's gonna hate? It's because that's all they do. They're fairly easy to spot if one makes an effort to look.
.
I guess that's more what I meant, that we consider our own opinion the best one because it's the one we understand the most. And I completely agree with the rest of what you say.
Nope not hate, I love the Sims
Why am I here? Even if they can not turn Sims flop around, I would like them to NOT FORGET what peoples issues with the game are. So if they were ever to make Sims 5, they won't repeat history. It is all for the future of my favorite franchise!
Now back to the topic of the thread...Do they know? Of course they know. It hasn't exactly been a well kept secret. There is a difference between knowing and being able to do something about it. Can they? I have my doubts about that, but I am watching, and waiting to see what happens.
Sometimes I get the feeling that those who think positively about this game; those who like it, don't get heard as much. I think it gets drowned out by a lot of the negativity within the forums and the community which worries me some. Not a whole lot, but some. I do want to see the things that people have been asking for the return to the game, but I also don't want them to change the game too much in their favor. Completely eliminating my play style for theirs (not that I really think that could happen, but it is something to think about).