So because they got all creepy and followed what simmers used and saw that toddlers were used the least they were like "Lets get rid of them " and only expected a few loud voices? Oh, but our usage amount isn't only to blame. EA is so very out of touch with it's customers, the geniuses figured "Hey, let's be like everyone else and not actually stay true to the nature of this game and put this online," which the all so wonderful people realized was a bad idea too late. And then instead scraping the project they sold an app for $60-$80 that was made too be offline in a couple years max. -_-
Cinebar - technically speaking the only data they could have looked at was Sims 3 data because you did not even need the internet for Sims 2 period. Naturally if they went by Sims 3 and "toddler watch" - you would not see the same level of enjoyment and playing we had with Sims 2 toddlers - seeing the Sims 2 did toddlers right - like real, live toddlers compared to the robotic and needy Sims 3 toddlers. There was a constant outcry against Sims 3 toddlers compared to sims 2 ones - from even the fact the toddler in Sims 3 had a drawing table on which they could not even draw on, but sims 2 toddler could draw on the "DRAWING" table. Nothing about Sims 3 toddlers had the adorabl-ness of Sims 2 - but most of all none of that info was trackable or watched by anyone at EA. I was never online when I played Sims 2 - Never - ever. So that is a bunch of HOOEY.
-
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
That applies as well for the disappointed.
Why would anybody annoyed at a game be silent?
That is obvious here. People are annoyed by lack of certain features, and thus from what I've seen this is the most negative I've seen a game forum about the game itself.
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
That applies as well for the disappointed.
Why would anybody annoyed at a game be silent?
That is obvious here. People are annoyed by lack of certain features, and thus from what I've seen this is the most negative I've seen a game forum about the game itself.
I have been disappointed with lots of things before, but I am not a person who particularly likes to voice it out. I don't like it, I leave it.
I don't want to do that for The Sims 4, because even though I don't really enjoy it, I want to hope that it will get better.
I have a friend who played the sims 4, she didn't tell me "i don't like it" rather she didn't say anything about it all. It's only when I ask her that she'll express her opinion.
Not everyone that hates or dislikes something will go out and voice their opinion.
> @FireFlower29 said: > Okay. "Some" are happy with the game. > > That wasn't my point. My basic point was that not everyone is unhappy either. I guess it depends on how you see things. > > Regardless of everything, it is just a video game.
I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE SIMS FOR 13 YEARS IT IS NOT JUST A GAME LOL :D
I don't fault The Sims development team from making jokes, everyone does it as a means of stress reduction. The Sims team worked hard to bring us a good game and instead of hearing praise about all they did give us, they get people complaining about what they didn't do for us. I am willing to wager money that everyone of us has made fun of people who has challenged us either in our personal life or in our professional life. It is simply a way of making light of others criticizing our hard work, a way of coping. The Sims team is no different, they are not some mystical creatures that should be held above normal human standards. Should this individual have shared these developers inside jokes? Probably not. But lets not find yet another reason to hate on The Sims development team for doing something that we all do!
> @HeyYoDiscoNick said: > The fact that they are still rolling out content to flesh out the base game for FREE is something that I see getting a lot of flack for reasons I don't understand. So many people were screaming for the release to be pushed back and seemed so upset that they didn't listen and released an “unfinished" game. What is the difference between waiting an extra year or so for a game, and getting it on time and having content slowly added over a year or so at not cost to us? Why is that a bad thing? I genuinely am trying to wrap my head around that one. > Mind you, my support will dry up the second major features that were omitted for time are given back with a price tag... *pokes at EA* *pokes one more time for emphasis*
This, exactly. In a way I feel like the free content updates make the initial price tag worth it because they are things that *should* have been in the base game and weren't, so they gave them to us for free in a sort of mea culpa way. However, if they charge for adding toddlers, I'm not going to be happy. I'm sure I've said it before in other comments, but I would probably be willing to pay for them if there was a LOT of other stuff that came along with the game pack or update or whatever, like more hair/clothes/objects/game play that goes along with toddlers and all that, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay 20$ for it (like they're apparently expecting for a pretty sparse game pack next month, as far as I'm concerned).
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
The user reviews have spoken. This game is a failure. So believe what you want to believe but there are facts of this everywhere you just need to open your eyes
Basically! Boils down to: people want toddlers, not happy EA is calling them toddlers for wanting them. And then just general complaints about the game. And complaining about those who are complaining.
As far as toddlers, i think they will eventually make a come back, least i hope, but many are already saying if they are not free then EA shouldn't even waste their time....which makes me think they will come as a generational EP down the road when much of the dust has settled and the bitterness and smoke has cleared out that currently surrounds the topic.
I think the company knows many players will either hate it and walk away or love it and keep playing without ever posting about it on the web. It's pretty clear they are relying on game stats which gives them a far better overall picture of their player base as a whole and their play activity, opposed to just a sector of their player base on the web or through reviews.
I have always found that voicing my dislikes a couple of times and then going silent by not logging play time and closing my wallet speaks louder...that is if enough people in the player base as a whole do indeed feel the same way i do and outnumber those who don't. I am thinking the player base as a whole is not matching up on a verdict many want to think given the inaction and silence by the company. Gotta figure the game has been out for awhile, yet I still have not seen any indication that they have any plans to make any "major" shifts to their vision for the game...sure they are attempting to make some changes and adjustments, but nowhere near on the level some are demanding and threatening to leave over. When a company doesn't sweat it..it's usually an indication that enough of their player base is behind their vision per stat activity, and new player stats are doing well.
Oh well, what's gonna be is gonna be just my two cents. Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas
Wow its hard to believe this thread has created so much feedback and chatter. Its nice to see everybody has been rather civil and polite barring a few moments.
I hope if anything though, I was able to impart some knowledge about game development too!
Thats its not as simply or as straight forward as even EA/Maxis PR vetted posts would make you believe (when is anything ever?) lol
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
Tell that to the people who constantly defend the game whenever possible....
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
Tell that to the people who constantly defending the game whenever possible....
A lot? I don't think A lot are happy. This is the only sims forum to actually have a few people liking the game. Any other forum is full of negativity. A trip to MTS will show you just how many hate the game. The reviews speak for itself even. A 3.7 score hardly tells me that a lot of simmers are happy.
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
Tell that to the people who constantly defending the game whenever possible....
Thank you for posting what has been said by those over at Maxis. Which as I pointed out their reasons flies in the face of the 'telemetry theory', which I have already said that theory is pure hog wash. Concerning what Graham stated (which I have read many times) I can only walk away with the perception of total mismanagement. Concerning what Rachel Franklin said ( which I have read many times) that mismanagement is magnified ten times greater and their statements can only lead me to think Mismanagement with time and resources. But tend to believe them more that two guys from EA Sports and the OP theorizing it was simply the telemetry...and or cost effectiveness...yes, I'm sure the cost played a huge part in it, since they had already spent the entire budget on the TS4 Olympus but I doubt the telemetry (which I have already stated early on) had one iota to do with these decisions this time around.
Regardless of what is and isn't gossip within EA, Maxis employees have contradicted themselves in countless times in public - for example with pools. An impossible feat they managed within a month excluding QA weeks. Everything they say is meant for PR - doesn't make it 100% fact. Every software company is guilty of this.
There's certainly truths to what Maxis said (in a very over simplified way) AND COMPLETE truth to the fact that the Sims 4 was completely mismanaged with "too many chiefs" as quoted by a few disgruntled employees - but their posts are REALLY dumped down for the public and vetted by their PR department (and often their legal department - one of which is present in every interview).
Think of it this way, say you work in whatever industry you work in (be it your first job at Walmart, to a lumber mill or Microsoft and everything in between) and your boss stands up and oversimplifies the process of your business to an audience for whatever he's justifying or trying to "sell" your consumers. It sounds good but you also realize just how much he/she is leaving out. EVERY SINGLE industry does this. Most if not all of us that have experienced/witnessed this and know what I'm referring to. Its pure PR meant to justify managements decisions and pacify their audience in the most simplified way for public consumption.
Honestly if thats how they produce games at Maxis (in an almost simplified cookie cutter fashion) no wonder their such a mess though. No software team of any size would run a development cycle in such a disorganized fashion. Everything falls into a schedule based on your design documents and then its up to the producers to see it done (or) mismanaged.
I suggest some of you re-read my OP to understand where are conversation was coming from, about how all those things factor into the decisions in a software developments cycle including usage stats. They don't just decide randomly what to and not to include in games, they look at development overhead first and foremost and spread their resource as the numbers allow based on other factors and priorities.
One thing that is well known within the industry is how much EA loves their usage stats. Not only for consumer advertising (like how they've release stats about Simmer habits, touch downs and head shot) BUT is also very important for software development. These numbers matter in the business world as well and EA first is a business that is IN the business of publishing software for a profit.
It was never a conversation that simply stated that they cut toddlers soley because of one stat - that was never said - it was how those stats figure into game production and the relevance of those stats in this case toddlers at cost.
They clearly didn't have the ability to manage and implement toddlers into their development cycle but that decision was made very early on and is made by taking into account various factors WHICH include usage stats. Its not the only they take into account but its something game develops pay attention to when justifying content within their resource draw.
Wow its hard to believe this thread has created so much feedback and chatter. Its nice to see everybody has been rather civil and polite barring a few moments.
I hope if anything though, I was able to impart some knowledge about game development too!
Thats its not as simply or as straight forward as even EA/Maxis PR vetted posts would make you believe (when is anything ever?) lol
All you gave was misinformation that several people pointed out it did not stand to scrutiny. No need for the humble brag.
Comments
That wasn't my point. My basic point was that not everyone is unhappy either. I guess it depends on how you see things.
Regardless of everything, it is just a video game.
So because they got all creepy and followed what simmers used and saw that toddlers were used the least they were like "Lets get rid of them
-
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Um. The happy are more silent than the disappointed.
So in fact the happy are the vast majority.
I know people who are disappointed in the game that don't even go on the internet to express their disappointment.
So the the happy and the disappointed are both silent.
There is more disappointment in the forums.
The majority is unknown.
What about the happy who, in being content, have no true motivation to express that?
That is obvious almost anywhere.
That applies as well for the disappointed.
Why would anybody annoyed at a game be silent?
That is obvious here. People are annoyed by lack of certain features, and thus from what I've seen this is the most negative I've seen a game forum about the game itself.
I have been disappointed with lots of things before, but I am not a person who particularly likes to voice it out. I don't like it, I leave it.
I don't want to do that for The Sims 4, because even though I don't really enjoy it, I want to hope that it will get better.
I have a friend who played the sims 4, she didn't tell me "i don't like it" rather she didn't say anything about it all. It's only when I ask her that she'll express her opinion.
Not everyone that hates or dislikes something will go out and voice their opinion.
> Okay. "Some" are happy with the game.
>
> That wasn't my point. My basic point was that not everyone is unhappy either. I guess it depends on how you see things.
>
> Regardless of everything, it is just a video game.
I'VE BEEN PLAYING THE SIMS FOR 13 YEARS IT IS NOT JUST A GAME LOL :D
Gallery ID: RAINE78 or click HERE
[img][/img]
> The fact that they are still rolling out content to flesh out the base game for FREE is something that I see getting a lot of flack for reasons I don't understand. So many people were screaming for the release to be pushed back and seemed so upset that they didn't listen and released an “unfinished" game. What is the difference between waiting an extra year or so for a game, and getting it on time and having content slowly added over a year or so at not cost to us? Why is that a bad thing? I genuinely am trying to wrap my head around that one.
> Mind you, my support will dry up the second major features that were omitted for time are given back with a price tag... *pokes at EA* *pokes one more time for emphasis*
This, exactly. In a way I feel like the free content updates make the initial price tag worth it because they are things that *should* have been in the base game and weren't, so they gave them to us for free in a sort of mea culpa way. However, if they charge for adding toddlers, I'm not going to be happy. I'm sure I've said it before in other comments, but I would probably be willing to pay for them if there was a LOT of other stuff that came along with the game pack or update or whatever, like more hair/clothes/objects/game play that goes along with toddlers and all that, but I doubt I'd be willing to pay 20$ for it (like they're apparently expecting for a pretty sparse game pack next month, as far as I'm concerned).
The user reviews have spoken. This game is a failure. So believe what you want to believe but there are facts of this everywhere you just need to open your eyes
> TL-DR?
Basically! Boils down to: people want toddlers, not happy EA is calling them toddlers for wanting them. And then just general complaints about the game. And complaining about those who are complaining.
I think the company knows many players will either hate it and walk away or love it and keep playing without ever posting about it on the web. It's pretty clear they are relying on game stats which gives them a far better overall picture of their player base as a whole and their play activity, opposed to just a sector of their player base on the web or through reviews.
I have always found that voicing my dislikes a couple of times and then going silent by not logging play time and closing my wallet speaks louder...that is if enough people in the player base as a whole do indeed feel the same way i do and outnumber those who don't. I am thinking the player base as a whole is not matching up on a verdict many want to think given the inaction and silence by the company. Gotta figure the game has been out for awhile, yet I still have not seen any indication that they have any plans to make any "major" shifts to their vision for the game...sure they are attempting to make some changes and adjustments, but nowhere near on the level some are demanding and threatening to leave over. When a company doesn't sweat it..it's usually an indication that enough of their player base is behind their vision per stat activity, and new player stats are doing well.
Oh well, what's gonna be is gonna be just my two cents. Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas
I hope if anything though, I was able to impart some knowledge about game development too!
Thats its not as simply or as straight forward as even EA/Maxis PR vetted posts would make you believe (when is anything ever?) lol
A. Toddlers weren't really done that well in TS3.
B. (kind of relates to A.) Toddler stage in TS3 was a short ride to accomplish all a toddler could.
Like who? *shifty eyes*
Regardless of what is and isn't gossip within EA, Maxis employees have contradicted themselves in countless times in public - for example with pools. An impossible feat they managed within a month excluding QA weeks. Everything they say is meant for PR - doesn't make it 100% fact. Every software company is guilty of this.
There's certainly truths to what Maxis said (in a very over simplified way) AND COMPLETE truth to the fact that the Sims 4 was completely mismanaged with "too many chiefs" as quoted by a few disgruntled employees - but their posts are REALLY dumped down for the public and vetted by their PR department (and often their legal department - one of which is present in every interview).
Think of it this way, say you work in whatever industry you work in (be it your first job at Walmart, to a lumber mill or Microsoft and everything in between) and your boss stands up and oversimplifies the process of your business to an audience for whatever he's justifying or trying to "sell" your consumers. It sounds good but you also realize just how much he/she is leaving out. EVERY SINGLE industry does this. Most if not all of us that have experienced/witnessed this and know what I'm referring to. Its pure PR meant to justify managements decisions and pacify their audience in the most simplified way for public consumption.
Honestly if thats how they produce games at Maxis (in an almost simplified cookie cutter fashion) no wonder their such a mess though. No software team of any size would run a development cycle in such a disorganized fashion. Everything falls into a schedule based on your design documents and then its up to the producers to see it done (or) mismanaged.
I suggest some of you re-read my OP to understand where are conversation was coming from, about how all those things factor into the decisions in a software developments cycle including usage stats. They don't just decide randomly what to and not to include in games, they look at development overhead first and foremost and spread their resource as the numbers allow based on other factors and priorities.
One thing that is well known within the industry is how much EA loves their usage stats. Not only for consumer advertising (like how they've release stats about Simmer habits, touch downs and head shot) BUT is also very important for software development. These numbers matter in the business world as well and EA first is a business that is IN the business of publishing software for a profit.
It was never a conversation that simply stated that they cut toddlers soley because of one stat - that was never said - it was how those stats figure into game production and the relevance of those stats in this case toddlers at cost.
They clearly didn't have the ability to manage and implement toddlers into their development cycle but that decision was made very early on and is made by taking into account various factors WHICH include usage stats. Its not the only they take into account but its something game develops pay attention to when justifying content within their resource draw.
*edited for grammar
All you gave was misinformation that several people pointed out it did not stand to scrutiny. No need for the humble brag.