Long thread and I came to "the party" late. My apologies if this has been discussed. Amazon allows people who don't own the game to review. There is a large contingent who "hate" the game without playing who "hate on" the game by slamming the game with 0 star reviews. Carl has an interesting post on the subject at his site.
I decided to seek out a site that would be less targeted by this form of hatred than Metacritic and Amazon, which are common go-tos for people who want to slander games. When you look at Best Buy, you can see a massive difference. Nearly everyone who has reviewed it is a verified owner. Amazon is a common target as the largest online retailer, and their practice of allowing people to review without owning games is faulty in my opinion. Metacritic can't do that, and you won't see these masses of 1-star reviews on games that are new franchises or meant to be singular titles. The difference in score is massive, to say the least, particularly in the 1-star review area. It is like the entire thing is flipped on its head.
I don't like that Amazon and other sites let people slam it with a 1/5 vote without purchasing, as requiring ownership would give a more accurate representation of how the game was received by people who have played it. As a consumer, if I see that type of thing, I look at the breakdown of votes. I like seeing the 3s/4s and know that plenty of people are enjoying it despite flaws. I know SOME of the 1s are real owners too, but not nearly as many of those compared to people who have given it more realistic scores.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
I think he's speaking about manhours in a development cycle both of which the Sims had and have.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
This has been known for a while, but it won't change the fact that people will believe everything they read and use it to back up their own arguments. Statistics are the same. The media is also guilty of misrepresentation. It's all about what sells. That's the business model.
I do think reviews should be restricted to verified purchasers though. It would trim down the excess garbage.
Personally, I really enjoy S4, but right now, I only give it a 3 out 5.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
To me, EPs are sequels
Exactly, the EP's are the sequals to the game, not the number after it.
Long thread and I came to "the party" late. My apologies if this has been discussed. Amazon allows people who don't own the game to review. There is a large contingent who "hate" the game without playing who "hate on" the game by slamming the game with 0 star reviews. Carl has an interesting post on the subject at his site.
I decided to seek out a site that would be less targeted by this form of hatred than Metacritic and Amazon, which are common go-tos for people who want to slander games. When you look at Best Buy, you can see a massive difference. Nearly everyone who has reviewed it is a verified owner. Amazon is a common target as the largest online retailer, and their practice of allowing people to review without owning games is faulty in my opinion. Metacritic can't do that, and you won't see these masses of 1-star reviews on games that are new franchises or meant to be singular titles. The difference in score is massive, to say the least, particularly in the 1-star review area. It is like the entire thing is flipped on its head.
I don't like that Amazon and other sites let people slam it with a 1/5 vote without purchasing, as requiring ownership would give a more accurate representation of how the game was received by people who have played it. As a consumer, if I see that type of thing, I look at the breakdown of votes. I like seeing the 3s/4s and know that plenty of people are enjoying it despite flaws. I know SOME of the 1s are real owners too, but not nearly as many of those compared to people who have given it more realistic scores.
Totally, a ton of people have an axe to grind and EA's neck is surprisingly accommodating, But that's why you gotta READ them reviews. "THE SIMS 4 ATE MY BAABYS!!!!1112" =Disregard
"The sims 4 has this, isn't so good with this" =Good review.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
Oh ok, I see what you're saying.
But that's Why the sequels have a number behind them, and expansions are called expansions.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
Oh ok, I see what you're saying.
But that's Why the sequels have a number behind them, and expansions are called expansions.
Tell that to Tomb Raider and Resident Evil. After a while. You just start to realize it's just another game with your favourite title. Yet they're still going strong, and you're scratching your head while refusing to get suckered in again.
Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
Or the Sims working life in 4, Disappearing Sims are a terrible mechanic. I'm glad you're outraged too. lol I had to. Sorry.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
What are you even saying? While my sim is eating at the "RABBIT HOLE" I can switch to my other sim and control her! What are you saying! What are you saying????
While my sim goes to WORK at this "RABBIT HOLE" I can explore the whole countryside like GOD MODE! What are you saying!>?? What are you saying???
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
What are you even saying? While my sim is eating at the "RABBIT HOLE" I can switch to my other sim and control her! What are you saying! What are you saying????
While my sim goes to WORK at this "RABBIT HOLE" I can explore the whole countryside like GOD MODE! What are you saying!>?? What are you saying???
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Take some advice, pay him no attention. Want to know why? Click his name and read the comments section. I skip over every single post he makes, without ever reading them, he'd be on my ignore except the ignore function on this forum is broken. So have to block him out the best way I can, and that's to pay attention to the name, and scroll past their post.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
Yeah, when I played Sims 1, loved it, but when I started playing Sims 2, I didn't approach the game as a sequal to continue my sims 1 family. It was a fresh original sim every time for me. Same with Sims 3. And even now in Sims 4, my sims in 4 are no where related to my sims 1, 2 or 3 families.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
This has been known for a while, but it won't change the fact that people will believe everything they read and use it to back up their own arguments. Statistics are the same. The media is also guilty of misrepresentation. It's all about what sells. That's the business model.
I do think reviews should be restricted to verified purchasers though. It would trim down the excess garbage.
Personally, I really enjoy S4, but right now, I only give it a 3 out 5.
Yeah the EPs are the sequels. By the time the first expansion comes, I will probably be in the second or third generation of my current family. Been playing casually, like 1-2 days a play session lol. So when the new ep comes in, it will make my sims stories different from their parents. Should be quite interesting what the future holds for TS4. As for my scoring, I actually give TS4 a 4 out of 5, because of the bugs. I don't hold the missing features against the base game
My current feelings about The Sims 4. Here is hoping The Sims 5 can restore The Sims franchise.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
This may be naive, but why can't we have both better sims and a better world? As I stated in my last post, sequels have done this before.
Which sequel did this?
You didn't read my post did you. Let me post again:
"So. You'd like them to spend over 10 years developing a game that is equal to, or better than, TS3 with all its expansions and then some, without any bugs. That makes sense. I'd wait over 10 years for a perfect game.
ETA: of course, I wouldn't be willing to spend more than $50 on it."
Who said it would take 10 years? Plenty of game companies do exactly what I just said in their sequels every day. This isn't something that's uncommon or rare.
If you'll excuse the genre-hopping, let me give you some examples. I want to emphasize that I'm not comparing these very different games to one another, but simply illustrating how a game can improve upon existing features while still being playable and not requiring "10 years" to do so.
Take a look, if you will, at the Metal Gear series. We went from a top-down 2d arcade stealth game to a 3D fully voiced gme with surprisingly deep mechanics, unbelievable attention to detail for such an old game, and a quirky, sometimes silly, yet surprisingly dark and engaging narrative.
It didn't take 10 years to do this, and yet they improved upon existing features without making their game glitchy or buggy. They didn't simply decide to remove things their predecessors did because they couldn't handle it.
Take a look at Grand Theft Auto (again, I know these are VASTLY different games, I'm just comparing how they improve upon their predecessors). We went from a top-down 2d arcade crime game with virtually no story to a 3D open world game sandbox with rpg elements and a silly, fun narrative. THEN we went from THAT to a state of the art, massive sandbox with a city, desert, countryside, various minigames, multiplayer free roam, sports games like tennis and triathalons inside the game, and a character-driven, surprisingly well made and superbly voice-acted comedy-drama about ambivalent criminals living in a city full of shallow, jaded sociopaths that satirize modern American life.
It didn't take 10 years to do this (GTA 2 to GTA 3 was less than 10 years, and GTA: San Andreas to GTA: IV and V was under 10 years), and yet they improved upon existing features without making their game glitchy or buggy. They didn't simply decide to remove things their predecessors did because they couldn't handle it.
Let's look at the evolution of Bioware's rpgs, which are vastly different story-wise, but have mostly followed the same formula and share similar mechanics. I hope you'll forgive me grouping them together this way.
We went from Baldur's Gate, which was a top down, old-school rpg reminiscent of classic DnD tabletop games, to Knights of the Old Republic, a well written rpg with real time combat, intriguing drama between each character, actual relationships and rivalries forming between you and the characters, and interesting choices to be made that can cause the story to branch off in different directions. Now look at the Dragon Age series, which took the best parts of Baldur's gate and Knights of the Old Republic to create an innovative and critically acclaimed experience.
Here, we see each game improving on what came before it, sometimes miss-stepping, but for the most part taking the best and most ambitious features of its predecessors, fixing the problems they had, and improving upon it, all while adding new stories, characters, and mechanics.
These may not be your type of games, but they're games that improved upon their predecessor's work without removing them, and received critical acclaim as a result. They used existing technology to improve upon what came before them, ironing out the kinks, and delivering a better experience as a result. They did this all while ALSO adding new features and stories to each game, and it didn't take an insane amount of time or an unheard of amount of resources.
So is it SO far-fetched to ask that the Sims improve upon features, and optimize them better for common computers? Is it so hard to imagine a sequel doing that? I'd say not.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
So. You'd like them to spend over 10 years developing a game that is equal to, or better than, TS3 with all its expansions and then some, without any bugs. That makes sense. I'd wait over 10 years for a perfect game.
ETA: of course, I wouldn't be willing to spend more than $50 on it.
Who said it would take 10 years? Plenty of game companies do exactly what I just said in their sequels every day. This isn't something that's uncommon or rare.
If you'll excuse the genre-hopping, let me give you some examples. I want to emphasize that I'm not comparing these very different games to one another, but simply illustrating how a game can improve upon existing features while still being playable and not requiring "10 years" to do so.
Take a look, if you will, at the Metal Gear series. We went from a top-down 2d arcade stealth game to a 3D fully voiced gme with surprisingly deep mechanics, unbelievable attention to detail for such an old game, and a quirky, sometimes silly, yet surprisingly dark and engaging narrative.
It didn't take 10 years to do this, and yet they improved upon existing features without making their game glitchy or buggy. They didn't simply decide to remove things their predecessors did because they couldn't handle it.
Take a look at Grand Theft Auto (again, I know these are VASTLY different games, I'm just comparing how they improve upon their predecessors). We went from a top-down 2d arcade crime game with virtually no story to a 3D open world game sandbox with rpg elements and a silly, fun narrative. THEN we went from THAT to a state of the art, massive sandbox with a city, desert, countryside, various minigames, multiplayer free roam, sports games like tennis and triathalons inside the game, and a character-driven, surprisingly well made and superbly voice-acted comedy-drama about ambivalent criminals living in a city full of shallow, jaded sociopaths that satirize modern American life.
It didn't take 10 years to do this (GTA 2 to GTA 3 was less than 10 years, and GTA: San Andreas to GTA: IV and V was under 10 years), and yet they improved upon existing features without making their game glitchy or buggy. They didn't simply decide to remove things their predecessors did because they couldn't handle it.
Let's look at the evolution of Bioware's rpgs, which are vastly different story-wise, but have mostly followed the same formula and share similar mechanics. I hope you'll forgive me grouping them together this way.
We went from Baldur's Gate, which was a top down, old-school rpg reminiscent of classic DnD tabletop games, to Knights of the Old Republic, a well written rpg with real time combat, intriguing drama between each character, actual relationships and rivalries forming between you and the characters, and interesting choices to be made that can cause the story to branch off in different directions. Now look at the Dragon Age series, which took the best parts of Baldur's gate and Knights of the Old Republic to create an innovative and critically acclaimed experience.
Here, we see each game improving on what came before it, sometimes miss-stepping, but for the most part taking the best and most ambitious features of its predecessors, fixing the problems they had, and improving upon it, all while adding new stories, characters, and mechanics.
These may not be your type of games, but they're games that improved upon their predecessor's work without removing them, and received critical acclaim as a result. They used existing technology to improve upon what came before them, ironing out the kinks, and delivering a better experience as a result. They did this all while ALSO adding new features and stories to each game, and it didn't take an insane amount of time or an unheard of amount of resources.
So is it SO far-fetched to ask that the Sims improve upon features, and optimize them better for common computers? Is it so hard to imagine a sequel doing that? I'd say not.
The problem with all those games in comparison is that they're linear in nature. .
No...no they're not.
No, they're not full sandboxes like the Sims, but they are anything but linear and need to be made to cater to many different playstyles and scenarios. Not only does every class need to be balanced, but every specialization within each class have to be balanced. Especially the bioware games, which branch off in entirely different ways. Not only that, but there needs to be different dialogue and narrative development that responds to every way the player behaves. Even if the main story only branches off in a few ways, there are hundreds of subtle differences and unique pieces of dialogue that need to be taken into account for every tiny way the player behaves in the game world. If anything, Bioware's rpgs are even more complicated, because of all the subtly different ways the story can play out, with different friends and enemies, different scenarios based on what the player did in the LAST game which carries over into the current one etc.
So I stick by my point that sequels can and HAVE improved upon existing features without removing them entirely, while still adding completely new features, and EA can do the same thing with the Sims as well.
As I've posted elsewhere - any feedback both negative (how else is the team going to know what you don't like?!) and positive are welcome - just no fights/flames/trolls and you're good thanks.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Take some advice, pay him no attention. Want to know why? Click his name and read the comments section. I skip over every single post he makes, without ever reading them, he'd be on my ignore except the ignore function on this forum is broken. So have to block him out the best way I can, and that's to pay attention to the name, and scroll past their post.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
Yeah, when I played Sims 1, loved it, but when I started playing Sims 2, I didn't approach the game as a sequal to continue my sims 1 family. It was a fresh original sim every time for me. Same with Sims 3. And even now in Sims 4, my sims in 4 are no where related to my sims 1, 2 or 3 families.
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
This has been known for a while, but it won't change the fact that people will believe everything they read and use it to back up their own arguments. Statistics are the same. The media is also guilty of misrepresentation. It's all about what sells. That's the business model.
I do think reviews should be restricted to verified purchasers though. It would trim down the excess garbage.
Personally, I really enjoy S4, but right now, I only give it a 3 out 5.
Yeah the EPs are the sequels. By the time the first expansion comes, I will probably be in the second or third generation of my current family. Been playing casually, like 1-2 days a play session lol. So when the new ep comes in, it will make my sims stories different from their parents. Should be quite interesting what the future holds for TS4. As for my scoring, I actually give TS4 a 4 out of 5, because of the bugs. I don't hold the missing features against the base game
EXACTLY! If it was a sequel, then you would continue exactly were you left off, for everything you played, this is not teh case!
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
Or the Sims working life in 4, Disappearing Sims are a terrible mechanic. I'm glad you're outraged too. lol I had to. Sorry.
The sims working in 3 did that too. They just had cars come pick them up. Sure, you could switch to them to look at the building they are working in, but you still didn't have much say in it. Unless you took an "ambitions" job.
It doesn't matter to me what anyone else says. Im playing it, and I'm loving it. I, for one, hope the devs don't cave to the site bombarders that are trying to make this in to TS3 all over again.
TS3 was the anomaly in to what the sims are about....and that's the sims themselves. TS3 let that go for the "open world". And that didn't work. that's my opinion. I prefer to have my sims back.
Exactly. I don't care what anyone says. I am heavily dissatisfied with the game. Personally, the stuff that was removed was more important to me than the stuff they added, and I hope the developers take the next game in a different direction.
I also think it's important to understand that not everyone who dislikes the game and reviews it poorly is a "hater" or a "troll". Just like those who love it aren't necessarily "fanboys".
We can both have different opinions without fighting over whose "right".
Exactly. If they feel pressured to make this 3 again then I have no need to buy EPs, right?
I try to steer away from the hater/troll threads.
Who said anything about hater or troll threads? If someone doesn't like the game, it doesn't make them a hater or a troll necessarily just like liking the game doesn't make you a "fanboy".
I feel like you missed the entire point of my post...
So here's a question. When do people who are disappointed, become haters and/or trolls? I've seen a number of people on this very forum who go out of their way to attack people who do like the game. Before the features were removed, some individuals when they disagreed with a positive review, hit the flag as abuse button because they think anyone that gives the game a perfect score in a category is a plant by EA. This resulted in the flag, agree and disagree buttons being removed.
And a these same people have been hating on the game even before it launched, constantly posting hate speech about EA, personal attacks on people who like the game. So then where is the line between disappointment, and outright hating and trolling?
I don't know how I'm supposed to answer this question. I don't speak for everyone who dislikes the game, just like you don't speak for everyone who likes it.
I may as well ask you, "When does liking the game become being a fanboy?"
But that would be a stupid question, because you have no way of knowing that, and it has nothing to do with the legitimate people who enjoy the game for genuine reasons and don't hate on people who disagree. In fact, if I asked you that question, it would simply be to derail the conversation and passive-aggressively label people who like the game as "fanboys".
But I wouldn't do that, because I understand that some people LOVE this game, and they're perfectly within their right to do so.
I just hope you understand that many people simply don't like it, for perfectly valid reasons.
I'm not trying to hate. I just really miss CASt, I REALLY miss the open world, I REALLY miss all the jobs available in TS3 in the base game. I hoped features like toddlers, story progression, CASt, the open world etc would be improved upon in the sequel instead of removed entirely. Maybe I'm asking too much for a sequel to improve the features of its predecessor, but that's honestly what I was looking forward to.
I know you disagree. I know those features likely don't matter to you, but can you possibly see how they could matter to someone else? Even a little?
Well I do want toddlers back for sure, and I never really got the whole story progression, never figured out how to actually access that. I simply had my sims live their own lives. As for Create-a-style and open world, I hope we never see those again. CASt in sims 3, had made the game a laggy, buggy mess. Just opening the wood, or even themed textures, took a good while for everything to load. And a few times, I've had CASt bug out and not appear, leaving me stuck staring at the paused screen with no way out.
And open world, also contributed a ton to Sims 3's lag. But what's even worse, parks and night clubs and other community lots in my games, were always deserted. Not long before I got Sims 4 create-a-sim demo and before launch, I had started up a new world, bridgeport with a male sim as an experiment. His goal: woohoo with 5 different sims in 5 different locations. I put him in an apartment, bought all 5 woohoo locations and put them in his apartment, and would go out to find a female sim. I was going to take that aspiration to the next level, instead of woohoo, I'd choose try for a baby. Had the genie wish, the traits, you name it I had it, so that he could produce twins and triplets.
Well out of all the pubs in bridgeport, only 1 ever had any other sims in it. Usually 2 or 3. I tried taking him to the parks, no luck, complete ghost towns. Tried going to the night clubs. Only ones there were the bouncers and the bartenders. I even tried the festival grounds. I lucked out 1 time there, and got a married woman to cheat on her husband and got pregnant. So Sims 3 felt like it was just Sims 2, only with a much much bigger lot all to yourself.
But here in Sims 4, the neighborhoods are open, and I'm constantly seeing tons of sims in the neighborhood. Some hanging around the park area of the neighborhood, some on a morning jog, others just passing through. So Sims 3 most definitely was an anomaly, and really did not continue Sims 1 or 2's legacy, which focused a lot on the sims themselves. And compared to sims 2, the sims in sims 3 felt almost emotionless. So it was pretty clear a lot was sacrificed for the game. And I am confident we wont ever see the 2 features that made Sims 3 laggy and buggy, make another appearance, in any incarnation of Sims 4. I wouldn't even hold my breath for it in sims 5. Technology has to grow more, for them to be able to make a game with those features, that wont bog down peoples computers.
Now as for your question, of when does someone become a fanboy. To me, that is a very easy question to answer. A fanboy see's no flaws at all in the game. Even with screenshots showing the flaws. They will defend the company to their dying breath, and attack any who dares go against their beloved game or company. They basically are the radicals of the side that like/love the game. Take a look at my review I had posted of Sims 4. Out of all the categories, gameplay by itself, was given a perfect score. The rest of the categories did not. And what contributed to the bad scores was bugs and annoying glitches. I did also state that there were features I'd like to see return to the game as well.
I try to be balance in how I look at the game, and both sides of the isle. I have even had friendly debates with people who did not like the game. But there are some, who aren't interested in friendly debate. The moment I say I love the game, I end up being hated as well. The question I asked you earlier, my view of the line between disappointed, and being an obsessed hate/troll, is someone that makes thread after thread every day to spout hatred for the game and/or company, and will attack anyone who disagrees with them. They also are the ones most likely to make tons of dummy accounts on fan review sites, like amazon, to make the negative score greater than the other scores then, make a post pointing at the negative reviews and saying "See, everyone hates the game". For me, that is the line. There's the moderate folks, who like/dislike the game, and then there's the radical sect that gives their respective side a bad image.
About the lag.
I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it.
I expected the Sims 4 to improve upon existing features and better optimize them, rather than removing them altogether. You're right: a lot of 3's more ambitious features made the game laggy and buggy, but I would rather EA have better optimized these features than remove them.
We've gotten to the point in the gaming industry when a buggy, empty shell of a game is par for the course. A point where we're expected to pay $60 for an incomplete game, then pay more money to get features that existed in the final version of the last game, and pay even more money to get completely new features. We Simmers are especially guilty of this. The amount of times I've heard "What do you expect? It's a base game!" in regards to Sims 4 (And Sims 3 when it first came out) is just plain sad.
I expect a "AAA" company like EA, which supposedly has near-unlimited resources and talent, to be able to properly code a video game. That is to say, I expect a multi-million dollar company to produce a quality, working product. Again, this goes for Sims 4 as well as Sims 3.
Why do I get so mad at 4 then, you ask?
Because it's 2014.
I expected EA to use 5 years worth of technology to deliver a playable game without stripping entire features. If a supposedly massive and talented company can't create a properly functioning game without removing features that existed in a game that's five years older, then maybe they shouldn't be working on such ambitious projects to begin with.
Sims 4 is made even more frustrating because the base game, to me, feels even more lacking than 3 did, simply because it's missing so many of the features I loved. I'm noticing all these problems more than I did when 3 came out because 4 doesn't have any of the stuff that hooked me in 3. I mean, how can I overlook all the missing careers? I can't be a doctor or a business man? Really? Glaring omissions make the other flaws seem more obvious.
So, to address what you said: YES, CASt, the open world, and story progression made 3 laggy.
But is it so strange for me to expect EA to properly code the sequel? To optimize it to work better? To improve upon the kinks and annoyances that the last game had? To use 5 years worth of advancement, and the lessons they learned from the last game, to improve upon features that already existed? Am I just expecting too much?
Then no need for 4. Just fix 3. Why didn't they, if they could have? In 3 it was about the world and not the sims. Now it's about the sims. I kept hoping for better sims in 3, but that was never the case. Ever. And no matter what world you put them in, it was the same. Don't get me wrong, I loved the worlds in 3. and maybe it was better that the sims were easy that way.
But so far, I like the sims in 4. And I like the worlds in 4. It may not be fully open like 3, but I like that the neighbourhoods are open to explore. and to me, that's a fair trade.
Imagine 4's Art style and upgrades with a full story progression, all the bells (Pools) and Whistles (Toddlers) etc.
Imagine IF 4 had, not all the EP content, but a good chunk of it from 3 and we didn't have to buy the same stuff we've already purchased at least once before.
Imagine if New Expansions actually meant NEW Expansions, New concepts.
Would you be happier with that product?
I sure would, I'd white knight the heck out of TS4. That's one of my major problems with buying 4 and all the same Expansions again (with few exceptions they will be the things we've bought before, at least once)
Imagine all you want. If they could have done it with 3 and that engine, they would have. The devs themselves have said they saw things they wanted to do but couldn't. 4 is allowing some of that for them. Like I said, I've played them all, and am quite willing to let them take us along for the ride. 3 has reached it's capabilities on it's engine. They can't/couldn't put s or s4 sims in s3.
and they can't/couldn't put S3 open world and cast in 4. To me it's quite simple as a consumer. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't buy it. I feel no need to complain 24/7 to make it so.
Have you ever worked retail? The customer is not always right. Not by a long shot.
LOL just because the Dev said their excuses about Open World that it cant be done doesnt mean they're telling the truth. Open world can be done. Ubisoft, Rockstar, and other game companies make their living out of OPEN WORLD games and they perfected it already! EA/MAXIS just run out of time because they rushed everything! Take the red pill and OPEN YOUR EYES. i can't believe you actually delude yourself to believe the Devs excuses so you can enjoy whats missing from the Sims 4. Is your Quality standard really that low? You make me laugh.
Look. I don't care if I make you laugh or not. I don't play any other game but the sims so I don't compare the sims to any other game. Why don't you try doing the same. Compare THIS sims iteration to pasts sims iterations. Forget about other companies and other games.
SIMS. This is the sims forum.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
What are you even saying? While my sim is eating at the "RABBIT HOLE" I can switch to my other sim and control her! What are you saying! What are you saying????
While my sim goes to WORK at this "RABBIT HOLE" I can explore the whole countryside like GOD MODE! What are you saying!>?? What are you saying???
Take some advice, pay him no attention. Want to know why? Click his name and read the comments section. I skip over every single post he makes, without ever reading them, he'd be on my ignore except the ignore function on this forum is broken. So have to block him out the best way I can, and that's to pay attention to the name, and scroll past their post.
oh! so thats why you arent answering! hahaha I thought you just always concede to defeat... hahaha silly me
I don't believe that every game is a sequel to another, I believe that they are all separate games, just because they have a number after them does not make the sequels. For example, are any of the Avengers movies sequels of each other (i.e. Iron man, Captain America) nope. They are all a movie with a similar concept and world they live in, its the same with Sims.
Oh ok, I see what you're saying.
But that's Why the sequels have a number behind them, and expansions are called expansions.
Tell that to Tomb Raider and Resident Evil. After a while. You just start to realize it's just another game with your favourite title. Yet they're still going strong, and you're scratching your head while refusing to get suckered in again.
I'd be pretty happy if that didn't happen with The Sims.
What's even more interesting is that the differing of opinions does less to actually encourage meaningful debate over what some people like verses what some people don't like and more with people who don't give the game a 10/10 and list their reasons why they don't like it and daring to compare it to earlier installments are being called haters and people who DO give the game a perfect rating are called kiss-🐸🐸🐸🐸. I feel like the focus is on the wrong thing here. It's a sign of immaturity because really, it encourages "hate" on both sides, but -- like someone else here mentioned -- it's the nature of the internet to have trolls and respect and meaningful discourse isn't the norm, especially on forums.
I haven't seen a lot of bad reviews for TS4 myself, save for the ratings from Game Informer, IGN, Game Spot, etc. Wikipedia lists and even those don't imply that the game is terrible. And even if they did, if there's a game I want to play, I'm not going to go to some article or blog to get reviews for it first. I've listed several times my issues with this game -- the number one being that it's really over priced for how little content it has -- never mind the glitches and bugs as well. You know, call me crazy, but I think that's a REAL problem. I think that's a really effed up way to treat your consumers. Especially those having played the base games for the previous installments and remember how much there was to do. With the exception of the excellent CAS and multi-tasking, there's no reason for me to pick up TS4 and play it for more than an hour a week. And I personally resent the prospect of having to buy expansion packs just to see dishwashers, pools, grocery stores and landlines again -- and there's no guarantee that the expansion packs will even have those things.
The frustration from the "haters", I think, has a lot more to do with the feeling of not being heard and people have been angry about that for a while, my friend. Long before Sims 4 even launched. And those 'haters', after forking up $70 for TS4 are left with a base that has less content than an expansion back. I mean, I think we're justified.
I'm not saying that what my family, friends and other fellow Simmers think about this game should be factored into an overall rating and goodness knows I don't have sources to back it up, but what I'm reading and hearing a lot is that this game has taken away something that affects a lot of people's different play styles. That, I bet, is where all the backlash is coming from. Yeah, some people are just being 🐸🐸🐸🐸, but you can be sure not all of us are.
Also, there's a certain irony in calling someone who disagrees with you "close-minded".
Comments
http://www.carls-sims-4-guide.com/good-or-bad.php
We now return you to your regularly scheduled TS4 debate!
I think he's speaking about manhours in a development cycle both of which the Sims had and have.
To me, EPs are sequels
@SINCERBOX
This has been known for a while, but it won't change the fact that people will believe everything they read and use it to back up their own arguments. Statistics are the same. The media is also guilty of misrepresentation. It's all about what sells. That's the business model.
I do think reviews should be restricted to verified purchasers though. It would trim down the excess garbage.
Personally, I really enjoy S4, but right now, I only give it a 3 out 5.
Exactly, the EP's are the sequals to the game, not the number after it.
Totally, a ton of people have an axe to grind and EA's neck is surprisingly accommodating, But that's why you gotta READ them reviews. "THE SIMS 4 ATE MY BAABYS!!!!1112" =Disregard
"The sims 4 has this, isn't so good with this" =Good review.
Ok lets do that. The thing that really grinds my gear is that they haven't included Open World and Story Progression in the Sims 4 coming off from the success of Sims 3. I dont buy the garbage excuse that these two features will be detrimental to the Sims game going forward! What are they saying? even when it comes to Sims 5 or Sims 6, we're forever stuck with endless loading screens? Are you PLUMMING KIDDING ME????
I love the Sims in Sims 4 but that's about it. WIth no Open World for them to enjoy I see no point in playing. Loading screen here loading screen there, loading screen when going to the neighbors lot. LOADING PLUMMING SCREEN!
Oh ok, I see what you're saying.
But that's Why the sequels have a number behind them, and expansions are called expansions.
Perfect. Yes. A loading screen. Compare that to a rabbit hole restaurant that can never fully load. Are you saying you had tons of fun staring at the bistro while your sims ate in their rabbit hole? So thats basically a 2 minute loading screen. lol.
Mind = Blown
Tell that to Tomb Raider and Resident Evil. After a while. You just start to realize it's just another game with your favourite title. Yet they're still going strong, and you're scratching your head while refusing to get suckered in again.
Or the Sims working life in 4, Disappearing Sims are a terrible mechanic. I'm glad you're outraged too. lol I had to. Sorry.
What are you even saying? While my sim is eating at the "RABBIT HOLE" I can switch to my other sim and control her! What are you saying! What are you saying????
While my sim goes to WORK at this "RABBIT HOLE" I can explore the whole countryside like GOD MODE! What are you saying!>?? What are you saying???
Y'all and your open world.
Take some advice, pay him no attention. Want to know why? Click his name and read the comments section. I skip over every single post he makes, without ever reading them, he'd be on my ignore except the ignore function on this forum is broken. So have to block him out the best way I can, and that's to pay attention to the name, and scroll past their post.
Yeah, when I played Sims 1, loved it, but when I started playing Sims 2, I didn't approach the game as a sequal to continue my sims 1 family. It was a fresh original sim every time for me. Same with Sims 3. And even now in Sims 4, my sims in 4 are no where related to my sims 1, 2 or 3 families.
Yeah the EPs are the sequels. By the time the first expansion comes, I will probably be in the second or third generation of my current family. Been playing casually, like 1-2 days a play session lol. So when the new ep comes in, it will make my sims stories different from their parents. Should be quite interesting what the future holds for TS4. As for my scoring, I actually give TS4 a 4 out of 5, because of the bugs. I don't hold the missing features against the base game
My current feelings about The Sims 4. Here is hoping The Sims 5 can restore The Sims franchise.
No...no they're not.
No, they're not full sandboxes like the Sims, but they are anything but linear and need to be made to cater to many different playstyles and scenarios. Not only does every class need to be balanced, but every specialization within each class have to be balanced. Especially the bioware games, which branch off in entirely different ways. Not only that, but there needs to be different dialogue and narrative development that responds to every way the player behaves. Even if the main story only branches off in a few ways, there are hundreds of subtle differences and unique pieces of dialogue that need to be taken into account for every tiny way the player behaves in the game world. If anything, Bioware's rpgs are even more complicated, because of all the subtly different ways the story can play out, with different friends and enemies, different scenarios based on what the player did in the LAST game which carries over into the current one etc.
So I stick by my point that sequels can and HAVE improved upon existing features without removing them entirely, while still adding completely new features, and EA can do the same thing with the Sims as well.
EXACTLY! If it was a sequel, then you would continue exactly were you left off, for everything you played, this is not teh case!
The sims working in 3 did that too. They just had cars come pick them up. Sure, you could switch to them to look at the building they are working in, but you still didn't have much say in it. Unless you took an "ambitions" job.
Me? Outraged? lol. You can't be serious.....
lol. really?
calm tf down.
oh! so thats why you arent answering! hahaha I thought you just always concede to defeat... hahaha silly me
I'd be pretty happy if that didn't happen with The Sims.
I haven't seen a lot of bad reviews for TS4 myself, save for the ratings from Game Informer, IGN, Game Spot, etc. Wikipedia lists and even those don't imply that the game is terrible. And even if they did, if there's a game I want to play, I'm not going to go to some article or blog to get reviews for it first. I've listed several times my issues with this game -- the number one being that it's really over priced for how little content it has -- never mind the glitches and bugs as well. You know, call me crazy, but I think that's a REAL problem. I think that's a really effed up way to treat your consumers. Especially those having played the base games for the previous installments and remember how much there was to do. With the exception of the excellent CAS and multi-tasking, there's no reason for me to pick up TS4 and play it for more than an hour a week. And I personally resent the prospect of having to buy expansion packs just to see dishwashers, pools, grocery stores and landlines again -- and there's no guarantee that the expansion packs will even have those things.
The frustration from the "haters", I think, has a lot more to do with the feeling of not being heard and people have been angry about that for a while, my friend. Long before Sims 4 even launched. And those 'haters', after forking up $70 for TS4 are left with a base that has less content than an expansion back. I mean, I think we're justified.
I'm not saying that what my family, friends and other fellow Simmers think about this game should be factored into an overall rating and goodness knows I don't have sources to back it up, but what I'm reading and hearing a lot is that this game has taken away something that affects a lot of people's different play styles. That, I bet, is where all the backlash is coming from. Yeah, some people are just being 🐸🐸🐸🐸, but you can be sure not all of us are.
Also, there's a certain irony in calling someone who disagrees with you "close-minded".
Although those shoes affect your step , don't forget whose legs you're on...