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What's the Point of Buying This Game? What's the Hook?

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  • deszordeszor Posts: 9 New Member
    edited July 2014
    I've wondered myself and I don't get the appeal either. From TS to TS3 stuff has been added that have been major improvements/features. With the sims 4 it seems like a lot of those things that made the past sims games great, are now being taken away. I honestly don't see what the hook is for this new game. :?


    I honestly think they have been taking things away the whole time, it has just been a while and they were at least adding new things. Really there are a lot of smaller things that enriched the game that have been removed over the last two games. Restaurants, volleyball, basketball(it was terrible in 2) most importantly they had better object interactions (sims 1 picnics, bear rugs, date interactions (proposing at the table etc, if I actually went back and played them I am sure I would find a lot more things that have been removed that made the game more interactive. This is a tiny idea of what has been taken out and left me feeling like all interactions are the same and boring. Hoping it gets better.
  • tasmabeltasmabel Posts: 207 Member
    edited July 2014
    CappyStuck wrote:
    Oh emotions :roll:.

    Because the Sims have never had THOSE before.
    Well, No. Not quite. there were moodlets and a general mood bar that was effected by needs but not actual emotions and not as many.

    Please. We had emotions. They were just never called that.

    I'm still unsure about my feelings on TS4, to be honest. I've been around since TS1. I invested in every TS2 and TS3 expansions. While I am certainly impressed with the build tools and CAS, I am still looking for the hook. Emotions don't count for me. Sims have always been driven by emotions to me. Their emotions didn't affect their interactions too much, but I would not say that emotions are a new development for our sims.

    I'm actually OK with the closed world and loading screens. The open world caused lots of lag and bugs that might not have ruined gameplay, but certainly hindered it. I loved Story Progression and the open world as much as anyone else, but I'm not crushed about it being removed. The color wheel is a big disappointment for me, but it's also something I can overlook...

    You know, assuming there is something new being brought to the table.

    Toddlers, pools, whatever. But we've been kept in the dark about gameplay for entirely too long. I cannot in good faith buy TS4 until I've seen an ample amount of gameplay. I'll probably end up getting it eventually (perhaps when it's not so new, buggy, and expensive), but I just wish that they weren't rushing to get it sold. People will still buy it if it's delayed.
  • UtaDagdaUtaDagda Posts: 1,556 Member
    edited July 2014
    UtaDagda wrote:
    That example looks all most like a carbon copy of the mom....That's what I'm talking about. In real genetics you don't just have completely the shape of one parent with maybe the eyes being completely the shape of the other....It's unrealistic. In TS4 I see subtle variances that make them look related without just dumping out a copy of one parent or a copy of one and maybe MAYBE one color or exact feature of the other. It actually blends the parents. Sometimes yes you'll have one that looks mostly exactly like mom or dad ((But with enough differences to not be copies)) but in most other cases you have blended features without copy//paste.

    That nice blending especially noticeable when Graham was making Teen and Child offspring with the african american lady in the In-CAS genetics demo. It really looks like actual genetics you'd see happen in real world. And I do believe those traits an blends impact all future gen of TS4 Sims. Such as blond appearing after skipping a gen, or a certain face feature.
    No, this is almost a carbon copy:

    6124793_orig.png

    Her eyes are completely different and that makes her a different girl.
    Of course the genetics are primitive, it's always eyes, ears, mouth, nose and jawline that are copied and with some luck those mix.
    My only complaint is I think it should always mix, there are far too many copycats born in my game (Frances' elder brother and sister were real copycats of their mother for instance).
    It's Sims, not realitiy. If this was different in S2 I'd like to see.

    I've tried the genetic tool in the demo, I only see eyes made a bit smaller or larger, or a completely different mouth.
    And it's not mixing two parents what we can do yet, I 'm really curious how that will be handled.

    Both examples were carbon copies in the TS3 pics you showed. And you can see the better genetics blend if you watch the CAS demo video of TS4.
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  • mhoblermhobler Posts: 299 Member
    edited July 2014
    Simmerd80 wrote:
    I personally think these questions are useless. Why do people get so agitated by other people's personal choices? Some people are excited for Sims 4 and some are not. Accept it and move forward. I understand being curious, but the curiosity sounds like it stems from a personal issue. Those who are not interested in the game feel justified in their lack of interested feelings, but also feel the need to ponder why others would be interested as if there is some form of insecurity underlying their own uninterested emotions. Who cares. You either like it or you don't. And, if you don't like it, then don't worry about those that do. Just go about your merry way. People add unnecessary stress and drama to their lives over such trivial matters. I understand this is a community, but its also a split community in which some adapt and move forward and others chose not to. That is the nature of life. Electronic games do the same thing. After Sims 4, there maybe a Sims 5 and if not. Oh well. Play your old games or find a new one. Life moves on.

    This.

    And the point of buying the game is to have fun playing it, that's the point of buying any game.

    I think I will have fun playing, therefore I will buy it. You apparently don't think you will have fun playing it. That fine, just don't buy it.
  • DaletheSimDaletheSim Posts: 430 New Member
    edited July 2014
    First I'm not judging much on the play through footage we finally got to see. It was very scripted, still, and not what I was hoping to see. For me the hook is it's new. I know that might not sound like much to you but it's enough, for now. I love seeing each new Sims game and even if I'm not Wowed by it at first something draws me in and holds me there. I can look around the childish behavior of the Sim Gurus, really wanted straight up game play in that video, and see there is a lot of potential there.

    So yeah, for me, new is enough.
  • jennemm75jennemm75 Posts: 309 Member
    edited July 2014
    The possibility that I might actually be able to play the game. I buy all the packs I have to because my mother plays and it makes her happy. She can barely play it, but because she doesn't mind starting all over every generation it is good for her. I can't play one generation with out some major glitch happening, causing lag, or some other equally as annoying glitch.

    If Sims 4 is actually playable, it will be worth it. I would rather play with out features, than to not play at all.
  • gamekittengamekitten Posts: 2,606 Member
    edited July 2014
    GumPlyr123 wrote:
    In the sims 4 its all about emotions. Yeah we have always had them but they didn't really affect our sims that much. In the sims 4 it's more real and these emotions can last for days. For example you know that guy who fought with that old lady and got really mad? That didn't last for a few seconds like past sim games, but until he got cheered up. How come you guys not notice this and only say "we have always had them :roll: "

    I guess you haven't played Sims 2. They have emotions and they DO affect them.

    Sims 2 is far greater than Sims 4. I'll take less graphics for epic gameplay.
  • GreyWindGreyWind Posts: 489 Member
    edited July 2014
    Tactile and intuitive.
  • playeralyalyweklplayeralyalywekl Posts: 1,345 Member
    edited July 2014
    ebuchala wrote:
    @MsPhy (partially. A lot of this is directed at everyone).

    I can tell there are two different definitions of "hook" at play here. Neither is wrong, just different.

    Your personal "hook" is what is drawing you, as an individual, toward the game.

    My meaning of "hook", however, focuses on: "what's new?" I just don't see any "new" features in Sims 4 that are worth taking the plunge for. There doesn't seem to be some big improvement like Open World or Aging (think of how innovative those were in their time for the Sims series!).

    With Sims 4, all we get are "emotions" and a "tactile, innovative version of CAS!".

    Emotions have always existed. I'm sorry, they have. It might not have been spelled out in large letters across the screen that our Sims are feeling "Angry" or "Hysterical", but we've been able to tell. A lot of people say Sims 3 is soulless. Fine. What about Sims 2, though? Everyone rants and raves about how vibrant and quirky those Sims were!

    So then I guess the only "new" feature is CAS. But is this really "new"? Every Sims title thus far has improved on CAS. So I don't really see the new CAS as a "new" feature. I see it as an improvement of an old feature.

    So then what do we have? What's the new, never-before-seen "hook" that Sims 4 purports to offer?
    Now THIS I can respond to. If you'd started your OP out this way rather than by insulting people for feeling a certain way, you would've gotten a lot more responses.

    Emotions and interactions are the "hook" (as someone else mentioned). You can claim that we had them previously (it's been so long since I played TS2, I can't give much input about their emotions) but in TS3, at least, emotions consisted of usually 1 main animation followed by an icon moodlet telling you your sim is still feeling a certain way for x amount of time. TS4 is changing it so that your sims have more body language and facial expressions to show their emotions rather than just a moodlet icon. The animations will last, for the most part (as far as I've read and seen) as long as the sim feels that way. To me that's huge but that's because my main disappointment with previous sims games were how emotions were handled--we got moodlets and some short animations but 10 minutes later in sims time and my sim is chatting happily with Jane Sim while his moodlet shows that he's still sad for the next 6 hours over the loss of his first pet. I want to see my sim's emotions, not just read about them.

    As for interactions, your sims can now interact with some objects based on their moods. The can also multitask in ways we haven't seen before (teach or talk to someone while you're painting; sit and watch tv while you're eating).

    Those are the hooks. You may or may not like them but that's what they are. EA's biggest problem now is marketing them in a way that convinces past customers they're worth the trade off of the missing elements.

    Where's a "like" button when you need one? You put that very clearly and sensibly. :-)
  • tasmabeltasmabel Posts: 207 Member
    edited July 2014
    Stosh117 wrote:
    Tactile and intuitive.

    LOL
  • emma7863emma7863 Posts: 118 New Member
    edited July 2014
    The hook is that it can play on any computer, new or old.
  • halimali1980halimali1980 Posts: 8,246 Member
    edited July 2014
    The difference between this game and the previous Sims 2 and 3 is that emotions are being explicitly informed to you :D
    Sims in the past games always had emotions but you had to focus on their faces to know it

    Now you dont need to focus. You just read what EA decided to add as the best thing ever in the panel. Things like "Happy" "Sad" "Hystercial" etc. They just decided they want us to know the status of the sim.

    What I expect in Sims 5 as another revolutionary feature is "Sims Needs"
    They will add a new panel telling us what the sim is doing like:

    "Don Lothario is happily peeing"
    "Dina Cliente is sadly woohooing"
    "Mortimer Goth is hysterically dying"

    :)
    Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
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  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    edited July 2014
    GumPlyr123 wrote:
    In the sims 4 its all about emotions. Yeah we have always had them but they didn't really affect our sims that much. In the sims 4 it's more real and these emotions can last for days. For example you know that guy who fought with that old lady and got really mad? That didn't last for a few seconds like past sim games, but until he got cheered up. How come you guys not notice this and only say "we have always had them :roll: "

    Because we have had them in TS2. Sims were mad for days at particular Sims. They would see them and grimace, or go over and punch them. Or have thought bubbles in successions about things that happened 'remembering' what they did and why they were mad, or upset'.

    This changed a little later in a patch with Seasons or something to tone down how long the Sim stayed angry because of whiners saying it was too hard.

    I'm sorry but the only thing I think about these Emotions in TS4 are they add an RPG flavor. Now you have to do something to advance the Sim with the emotion to make it work in your favor. Where as before it was the essence of the Sim and many things flowed from those emotions. I don't know how people could have missed 'that' about TS2.
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited July 2014
    Cinebar wrote:
    GumPlyr123 wrote:
    In the sims 4 its all about emotions. Yeah we have always had them but they didn't really affect our sims that much. In the sims 4 it's more real and these emotions can last for days. For example you know that guy who fought with that old lady and got really mad? That didn't last for a few seconds like past sim games, but until he got cheered up. How come you guys not notice this and only say "we have always had them :roll: "

    Because we have had them in TS2. Sims were mad for days at particular Sims. They would see them and grimace, or go over and punch them. Or have thought bubbles in successions about things that happened 'remembering' what they did and why they were mad, or upset'.

    This changed a little later in a patch with Seasons or something to tone down how long the Sim stayed angry because of whiners saying it was too hard.

    I'm sorry but the only thing I think about these Emotions in TS4 are they add an RPG flavor. Now you have to do something to advance the Sim with the emotion to make it work in your favor. Where as before it was the essence of the Sim and many things flowed from those emotions. I don't know how people could have missed 'that' about TS2.
    I would have been one of those whiners. I don't like people who stay angry for days in real life - often even being proud about it too :? - and I don't like it in a game.

    My sims are sad for two days when someone dies, I always cheat that away. I know they're sad, granny died, I don't need to see it every two seconds when they burst into tears, interrupting everything they were doing. Completely spoiling every other gameplay there is.
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  • chickenowchickenow Posts: 458 Member
    edited July 2014
    I've been silently watching new information about Sims 4 trickle in for months now. When I first heard it was released, I think I was just about as excited as everyone else. Cynical? Maybe. But still excited. But now it seems that with each batch of information that's been released about this newest installment to my once beloved Sims franchise, my interest only wanes and wanes.

    I just don't get it. What is the APPEAL of buying this game??

    I'm genuinely asking this to all of you who squeal with delight at each new trinket of information that is released. I'm baffled by your excitement. I don't see the "hook" of this game.

    Each new Sims title, thus far, has brought us something new, something big.
    -Sims 2: Aging, new life stages. HUGE improvement
    -Sims 3: Open world, CASt
    -Sims 4:...prettier Sims?

    I don't get it. Yes, I think the graphics are improved. Big deal? There's no big STEP FORWARD in the Sims 4. No new innovative hook. CAS is
    improved...but so what? That's not enough for me to actually see the point of buying a 70 new game and 300 dollars worth of expansions and what have you. Shoot, more features are being TAKEN OUT of Sims 4 than are being added IN!
    So, to all you hopeless fan girls and boys, I ask you this: why in 7 h***s are you bothering to buy this shameless cash-grab of a game?

    As a fan of the Sims I Really want to argue on this....but I have to concede that as much as I want to buy the game I'm struggling to see what is ground breaking about the new franchise to make fans want to jump ship from Sims 3.

    I suppose to put up a bit of a fight you could argue that in CAS the boots can go over trousers instead of clipping? :wink:

    In all seriousness the main pull is getting "new things" whether you like the new franchise or loath it...you ain't going to get anything new by staying on Sims 3. If that suits you fine then fair enough.

    I must admit I'm on the fence and to be saying that still when there's just over a month before launch is super disheartening. I'm going to be careful this time, I'm going to wait and hear the reviews and read the forums before taking the plunge (I suppose there's the silver lining with being based in the UK) but I guess ultimately the "new stuff" will turn me to the dark side if it's appealing enough....
  • Jdavij20033Jdavij20033 Posts: 2,054 Member
    edited July 2014
    UtaDagda wrote:
    1 Emotions. No other Sims in other iterations never had them. If you think that you're quite obviously blind. Maybe you like playing with stale robotic barbie dolls. I'm frankly tired of doing so.

    It's been said over and over, but I'll say it again: TS2 Sims had emotions. Perhaps they weren't truly intuitive, but I fail to see the difference between coded interactions and coded interactions. AI is still coded into a game. In TS2, Sims reacted emotionally to various things based on their LTW and how their personality points were distributed.

    I will agree that TS3 Sims are stale robotic barbie dolls. The traits system was really appealing to me but fell completely flat. I felt that I had more diverse Sims with the personality points than with traits. If Maxis could combine the systems I think that we would see a crazy amount of emotional diversity among our sims - but I don't think that that's what we're getting. Instead we have (essentially) a moodlet in the corner of the screen that tells us what our Sim is feeling. I would think that that wouldn't be necessary if the Sims were truly demonstrative of their feelings.
    UtaDagda wrote:
    2 More interactions and things to do than any base game so far. If all the ways and interactions provided in that teenie tiny sample in the demo video is any indicator of just how many new interactions and details within interactions can go per object and Sim, you can bet this is the fullest//most alive base game we've ever gotten.

    I can't disagree with you because I have not been apprised of all these new interactions in the base game - but that makes me wonder how you can make this statement at all. I watched the whole video and didn't see anything but two guys having fun and laughing about their sims while showing pretty much what we already knew about - Bella Goth, Kim Jong-Un, cupcake machine, working out while angry, teleporting.....
    UtaDagda wrote:
    3 The graphics have a major improvement. As does routing. So many little things have been fixed and improved upon so that the game feels tons more cohesive and fun without the aggravation of a cold, dead empty world and glitchified game play in every corner.

    We have been told that the routing has been improved.
    UtaDagda wrote:
    4 Genetics. No TS3 did not have it. You either got carbon copies of the parents or something so alien you wonder how it even happened. The genetics are more true in TS4 and that's very obvious to anybody with eyes.

    TS3 had genetics but they were awful. A baby should not be born with purple hair because his rock star mom colored hers before giving birth. TS2 had pretty good genetics. It took me three generations to get rid of Benjamin Long's nose. It was awesome to see certain features from generation two show up in generation 7. TS3 sims take about 1-2 generations to look just like all the other pudding faced townies.

    That being said, how can we tell about the genetics in this game? They did show us some in a scripted CAS video, but I don't think that that's very telling about genetics during actual gameplay.
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  • gamekittengamekitten Posts: 2,606 Member
    edited July 2014
    UtaDagda wrote:
    1 Emotions. No other Sims in other iterations never had them. If you think that you're quite obviously blind. Maybe you like playing with stale robotic barbie dolls. I'm frankly tired of doing so.

    It's been said over and over, but I'll say it again: TS2 Sims had emotions. Perhaps they weren't truly intuitive, but I fail to see the difference between coded interactions and coded interactions. AI is still coded into a game. In TS2, Sims reacted emotionally to various things based on their LTW and how their personality points were distributed.

    I will agree that TS3 Sims are stale robotic barbie dolls. The traits system was really appealing to me but fell completely flat. I felt that I had more diverse Sims with the personality points than with traits. If Maxis could combine the systems I think that we would see a crazy amount of emotional diversity among our sims - but I don't think that that's what we're getting. Instead we have (essentially) a moodlet in the corner of the screen that tells us what our Sim is feeling. I would think that that wouldn't be necessary if the Sims were truly demonstrative of their feelings.
    UtaDagda wrote:
    2 More interactions and things to do than any base game so far. If all the ways and interactions provided in that teenie tiny sample in the demo video is any indicator of just how many new interactions and details within interactions can go per object and Sim, you can bet this is the fullest//most alive base game we've ever gotten.

    I can't disagree with you because I have not been apprised of all these new interactions in the base game - but that makes me wonder how you can make this statement at all. I watched the whole video and didn't see anything but two guys having fun and laughing about their sims while showing pretty much what we already knew about - Bella Goth, Kim Jong-Un, cupcake machine, working out while angry, teleporting.....
    UtaDagda wrote:
    3 The graphics have a major improvement. As does routing. So many little things have been fixed and improved upon so that the game feels tons more cohesive and fun without the aggravation of a cold, dead empty world and glitchified game play in every corner.

    We have been told that the routing has been improved.
    UtaDagda wrote:
    4 Genetics. No TS3 did not have it. You either got carbon copies of the parents or something so alien you wonder how it even happened. The genetics are more true in TS4 and that's very obvious to anybody with eyes.

    TS3 had genetics but they were awful. A baby should not be born with purple hair because his rock star mom colored hers before giving birth. TS2 had pretty good genetics. It took me three generations to get rid of Benjamin Long's nose. It was awesome to see certain features from generation two show up in generation 7. TS3 sims take about 1-2 generations to look just like all the other pudding faced townies.

    That being said, how can we tell about the genetics in this game? They did show us some in a scripted CAS video, but I don't think that that's very telling about genetics during actual gameplay.


    I have to agree with most of the Sims 2 things said by Jdavij20033.

    I am playing Sims 2 now and I would like to say the pathing issues in Sims 2 is almost non-existent. If there is pathing issues then it something the player caused. I have seen my sims step over objects, go around people, even wait for the person in the way to move. I have seen the person in the way move for the person that needed to get by. I have seen them go out their way (you know direct path) if someone was in their way.I have seen 1 that was a developers issue and it existed in one apartment. I have seen a toddler mad because his family was robbed and stayed mad even when they aged up into a child.

    I have seen a husband whistle at his wife well into the marriage. Kids run out to greet their parents when the parents got home from school. I have seen a sim that was robbed by a person 7 days later go up and slap the robber in a community lot. I could go on.

    So exactly what does Sims 4 (besides better graphics per say) have that I don't get in Sims 2? Remember I get epic play in Sims 2. Please tell me why I should move on and pay 70 dollars for this so called New Sims game.

  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited July 2014
    TS3 had genetics but they were awful. A baby should not be born with purple hair because his rock star mom colored hers before giving birth. TS2 had pretty good genetics. It took me three generations to get rid of Benjamin Long's nose. It was awesome to see certain features from generation two show up in generation 7. TS3 sims take about 1-2 generations to look just like all the other pudding faced townies.

    That being said, how can we tell about the genetics in this game? They did show us some in a scripted CAS video, but I don't think that that's very telling about genetics during actual gameplay.
    I agree with your last remark, we haven't seen how it works yet.
    But as for Sims 3: I played 20 generations now and never a pudding face. You must be doing something wrong?
    Must say I never mix romantically with townies, maybe that's the problem? One of my heirs was the son of a genie. Had to play his birth six or seven times till he came out the way I wanted (looking like his father, only with light blue skin and genie powers).

    For 13 generations my sims had the very same eyes (because I liked them). And a mouth I created in generation 12 was still there in generation 17 (not on purpose, it seemed to be rather dominant :roll: ).
    UtaDagda wrote:
    Both examples were carbon copies in the TS3 pics you showed. And you can see the better genetics blend if you watch the CAS demo video of TS4.
    You obviously don't know what a carbon copy is :? The first heir I showed may look like her mother (which isn't odd, it's her mother) but her eyes are different (they just are, that's how simple it works in the game).
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  • IvinoraIvinora Posts: 1,165 Member
    edited July 2014
    Can i ask a serious question here for a moment...
    I have seen people list as a hook that there will be more interactions between sims
    But when i looked at the "gameplay" video a few days ago, I really got the feeling that this wasn't fully the case... . It looked like a max of 6-7dif. options with a added "more options button" but it looked just the same as we got in Sims3 Could have been that it's just me though, and i know i can't ask if anybody has another video because there are no other video's sadly... but is there a list online or something to back this up??
    I mean i get that there's only so many options they can put on a menu, and i get that some options will change due to the emotion system, but at this point i don't believe it untill i see it :XD:
  • Oneice27Oneice27 Posts: 314 Member
    edited July 2014
    The hook for me is from more of a story teller/artistic perspective.

    For me, an artist, expressions and emotions are the law! So to see the sims that I love be able to interact with their environment and have them be effected by it is rather exciting! I also like that I can have more realistic body and face shapes. In sims 3 I couldn't get a lightly chubby girl without her looking just maybe a little thicker than most or be too fat just to give her some chub and curve. Or the fact that I am a fan of unusual noses, particularly ones with high arches! Tried to give a high arched nose to my sim in sims 3 and it went into his forehead... I could not for the life of me get that perfect arch that I wanted!

    Generational play was never something I got into. I've attempted it believe me! But I can't get past generation 2 without starting up some other sims. I've always kind of just enjoyed playing 1 or 2 sims. Play as a couple and have them have cute little romantic moments. Eventually getting to kids.

    The building tools is something I like because I am really really terrible at building houses... make the rooms to big or two small or just... I don't even know! I get frustrated way to fast XD
    Keep calm and sim on friend-os!

    **Icon image is of my character, drawn for my by fellow artist ^^ I always play out him and his gal's story in the sims, going to be exciting to bring it to the sims 4!**
  • Jdavij20033Jdavij20033 Posts: 2,054 Member
    edited July 2014
    TS3 had genetics but they were awful. A baby should not be born with purple hair because his rock star mom colored hers before giving birth. TS2 had pretty good genetics. It took me three generations to get rid of Benjamin Long's nose. It was awesome to see certain features from generation two show up in generation 7. TS3 sims take about 1-2 generations to look just like all the other pudding faced townies.

    That being said, how can we tell about the genetics in this game? They did show us some in a scripted CAS video, but I don't think that that's very telling about genetics during actual gameplay.
    I agree with your last remark, we haven't seen how it works yet.
    But as for Sims 3: I played 20 generations now and never a pudding face. You must be doing something wrong?
    Must say I never mix romantically with townies, maybe that's the problem? One of my heirs was the son of a genie. Had to play his birth six or seven times till he came out the way I wanted (looking like his father, only with light blue skin and genie powers).

    For 13 generations my sims had the very same eyes (because I liked them). And a mouth I created in generation 12 was still there in generation 17 (not on purpose, it seemed to be rather dominant :roll: ).

    I guess you're right. I should be saving right before birth and then quitting after I boolprop cheat to age up the baby to see what it will look like as an adult. :roll:

    I'm sorry but that just seems like an unnecessary waste of time to me. I love having Sims being born in game and then waiting to see what they'll turn out like. Additionally, if I'm playing a legacy (which I generally am), it's kind of cheating to save and quit until I get the perfect Sim born in-game.

    To each his own, I suppose. I happily play the game "wrong" - and the game's natural tendency is to push out pudding faced babies.
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