February 3rd- It's time for our Friday Highlights! You can check them out here!

Then what DO you guys want?

Comments

  • MeeshaSimmerMeeshaSimmer Posts: 29
    edited August 2013
    Oh my gosh! Your SOOO right! Everyone is doing this, even though the Sims 4 looks good in my opinion. Plus, we couldnt "sculpt" the Sims if they didnt look like that! That would take the most expensive computer in the WORLD to handle that nicely. Just remember everyone......THE SIMS 4 IS A NEW GAME. Thank you :)
  • sparkles93sparkles93 Posts: 4 New Member
    edited August 2013
    Simmer999 wrote:
    After reading this thread, I have to get this out, everyone is going to think I'm absolutely crazy for saying this, but I really don't care.

    I like how Sims 4 is looking so far.

    I didn't expect a big, huge, revolutionary step forward. It just isn't something that is necessary at this point. I hear people bashing at Sims 4 for many reasons, especially could have better graphics. Also people saying "Please be no more bugs!" "I want something revolutionary!" There are several things here to be considered before bashing.

    1. EA is a company of people like us. Not magicians who can wipe away bugs with a simple touch. So yes, there will be bugs.
    2. Could have better graphics. THIS ONE JUST DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!! If you want to do something that looks identical to real life, do stuff in real life!!! Sims is not a series where you relive live in a realistic version. It's supposed to be cartoonish, fun, and lighthearted! If they made graphics anymore realistic than those in Sims 3, they would have to substitute the light fun for more serious stuff and the whole life package, because it would be like, say watching Looney Tunes but looks exactly realistic. That just wouldn't work, would it? The Sims series wouldn't make sense with realistic graphics.
    3. Revolutionary game. Eventually this just can't happen. You can't have improved graphics, improved CAS, improved build/buy mode, improved routing/path-finding, improved interactions, improved settings, the better things from the previous games, some, smaller new additions, AND a revolutionary factor. A game like Sims isn't free. It isn't cheap. It isn't moderate. It's probably quite expensive to produce all of that without the revolutionary factor.

    What I always expected from Sims 4 was tons of small additions and improvements, not something huge.

    Now, let's look at what we DO have that has been shown (that is worth mentioning):
    1. Emotions. THAT is something that has been missing in the Sims
    2. Voodoo dolls. Must I say anything else?
    3. Improved CAS. My opinion, it looks a lot easier to make the Sims you want will this than the previous ones.
    4. Improved build/buy mode: Again, building looks so much easier. And about curved walls? We saw IN THE VIDEO them making a curved railing, did we not? So it makes sense to believe that we can also make curved walls. And, moving whole rooms? SWEET!
    5. A FREAKING ROCKET!!!

    This is probably the tip of the iceberg for Sims 4. We saw probably an hour of Sims time and a little of CAS and Build mode. How can we truly judge a game with this little known?

    Now, I know that I'm going to be spammed with a ton of hateful replies to what I just said, but bring it. My opinion won't sway (unless they show us something terrible) and I don't care if your opinion doesn't sway. This is something I just needed to get out.

    #EndOfRant

    P.S: Comparing Sims 4 vanilla pudding to Sims 3's best custom content? Is that really the fairest base of comparison?
    P.P.S: OP, you are 1,000% correct in everything you said (at least in my opinion).
    P.P.P.S:
    Just wondering what you all think about this comparison? Picture 1 is from The Sims 3 with all graphic settings set to max.

    compare1.jpg

    gaming-the-sims-4-screenshot-11_zpsc33fcccf.jpg

    I agree with you completely. What I wanted to make a point on was the comparison between "Sims 4 vanilla pudding to Sims 3's best CC". No it's not really a fair comparison--for the Sims 3. If everyone ignores the Sims and stops complaining about the cartoony-ness and takes a glance at everything else, maybe they'll see how promising the new game looks. You can see every single brick in the Sims 3 back wall, while the Sims 4 brick wall looks more realistic by design. The sims in both pictures look remarkably similar in certain aspects (the flawless skin, angular faces, etc.). And if Sims 3 is on high, while Sims 4 is still being worked on and possibly not at the top of its game yet, I think we can expect greatness from the game.
  • sparkles93sparkles93 Posts: 4 New Member
    edited August 2013
    Arletta wrote:
    I've been watching from the sidelines sparodically for a time. I've not been well. I will admit to not having seen the live broadcast though I saw the announcement and first look trailers. I suspect I will look eventually, just not today.

    I do find simmers a hilarious and contradictory bunch of ppl. They give ppl seemingly what they've been asking for for years. In a short look it's immediately loved or hated with extreme viewpoints in betweeen and any excuse to pick a fight with the opposing party of your own opinion. At the same point in time, there is no way to bridge this gap of opposing view points, but us simmers will continue to fight it out.

    We'll all claim we're right as we've been simming for x amount of years and EA should categorically and undeniably listen to one of us, the person talking at the time, and no other person, otherwise we're all taking our toys and leaving, unless, of course, the base game has this feature, that feature or the other feature then we're not leaving. We might hate the look or this or that or the other, but we'll probably buy it anyway. Oh, yes, and it's doomed to failure, because a simmer said so.

    We're making this snap judgement on what amounts to nothing more than a few minutes of gameplay and CAS, plus some basic shots of the game which we all know is a work in progress. CAS, I think, looks amazing, from what little I saw of it. The art work isn't terrible. It's not great either, but it is in keeping with the eye shots they originally showed us. None of us at all had unrealistic expectations in all of this and all of us are expecting the dev's to conform to our expectations without exception.

    It has to be realistic, but it's not to be too unrealistic. It has to have wonderful gameplay, but not be too shallow. It has to have wishes, side quests online and not be too sandboxy while not having wishes, side quests, no online and being a complete sandbox game. It's also got to be in keeping with Will Wright's vision of the sims, though none of us simmers can agree on what that vision was.

    So in short, we don't really know what we want. It's pointless asking us because you'll end up with 50 different answers to the same question to 50 different simmers.

    Also since when is a TS2 sim without CC, a TS3 sim with huge amounts of CC and a TS4 sim a fair comparison and since when did TS3 suddenly encompass everything that's right with the game? Most of us simmers hate TS3, except for the past few weeks apparently.

    I like that you pointed out people who are complaining about this game will probably end up buying it anyway. It makes me angry when, like you mentioned, people say "I'm not buying this game unless..." and rant about the flaws of a game when it's unlikely they could do better on their own. They're putting a lot of hard work into this game and people tearing it down because it doesn't meet their expectations is unacceptable. Being rude and closed-minded while labeling the statements an "opinion" doesn't make it less insulting, and I think we all forget that while we're running our mouths. I figure that anyone who is a simmer should sim if they want to sim, no matter what Sim it is.
  • xSpoiledxxSpoiledx Posts: 228 Member
    edited August 2013
    I just want more realistic looking Sims and a lot fewer rabbit holes. That's all I ask. Looks like Im out of luck on the first count, second remains to be seen.
  • OilbasedoleanderOilbasedoleander Posts: 2,967 Member
    edited August 2013
    I just want this **** game to work. :lol:
    Both PC and Mac.
    I want it finished.
    I don't want 🤔🤔🤔🤔 apologies for an unpolished game and patches.

    You guys are all upset about the graphics. I almost feel EA did this on purpose to take everyone's focus away from the real problems... which I posted in another thread that was over-looked because there were too many arguments about graphics.
    I love that 'regressing' is just about graphics. It's not always about graphics...

    Let's talk about the things EA really IS regressing on...
    Like putting out finished games?
    Like ignoring the smaller demographics? (Mac users, other age groups BESIDES young adults and teens.. ect)
    Customer service and support?
    The poor excuses called 'patches' as apologies and fixes for these under-tested games?
    (Please don't misunderstand that last one, I do prefer that they fix their broken games, even through patches. But it has been for every single expansion so far... Not patches to really add content. They really do JUST fix what they have to after people spend a lot of money on a product that should work at least on par with other PC and Mac games).
    How about not taking their time with games? Deadlines are good, they do push them to work, but sometimes I'd rather wait for a complete game, then get stuck with a buggy 🤔🤔🤔🤔 purchase.

    Just to a name a few.
    Hopefully these get turned around with TS4. I have never played TS2 or 1. I came into the Sims when WA was released for TS3. I think half the time I was grabbing my hair in frustration and kicking a wall. There's possibly a dent there still.

    I will gladly sacrifice realism for a game that I don't know.... works?!
  • Allspice1232Allspice1232 Posts: 3,234 Member
    edited August 2013
    Funny how people bashed TS3 really hard, screaming "we want TS2 stuff back!" and "TS2 was so much better, TS3 sucks!" yet when they go back and use TS2 as a guild line because that's what people have been asking for...people are still angry. And all over a bare bones pre-alpha build of CAS and a handful of screenshots. The graphics will certainly be polished up, but they probably won't change a whole lot.

    That is not to say that I think people should either like it or shut up. I am all for telling them what you like and what you don't, especially at this stage when they can change it, just be civil about it. Is it really that hard not to insult the people who like it/don't like it and the Gurus themselves? I know it's difficult, but try to remember that behind the computer screen is a real person.
    34336_s.gif
  • iPatrickediPatricked Posts: 260 Member
    edited August 2013
    First of all, I want the EA fanboys/girls to realise that it's OK to criticise EA. Complaining about people complaining is pretty hypocritical. It's OK to not like something in the game, or not agree with a decision almighty EA has bestowed upon the coveted Sims 4. Most of the complaints are actually constructive criticisms.

    But back on topic: I, and probably most others, want PROGRESS. It's all well and good to say 'better pathfinding, new clothes and hair, swapping sliders for grabbing' and so on, but that isn't worth a new game. That's not worth a $80 or $90 investment, when we basically have all of those features in the Sims 3. If it was OK, as some on this forum would have us believe, to not make any progress, then we'd still be stuck on a little lot with no world outside, with nothing happening outside of our own household and with ten minute loading screens to go to a community lot. We'd still rely on the carpool. We'd still only be able to have two storey houses and no basements.

    PROGRESS is what we want. Progress is what's severely lacking in what we've seen. New clothes, hair, flooring and furniture don't justify a new game. A new bit of the UI telling us how a Sim is feeling isn't worth $80. Those things belong in expansion packs or updates. So far, we've not seen any signs of real progress. Things are different, not improved.

    I don't think a bit of progress is much to ask for.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited August 2013
    iPatricked wrote:
    First of all, I want the EA fanboys/girls to realise that it's OK to criticise EA. Complaining about people complaining is pretty hypocritical. It's OK to not like something in the game, or not agree with a decision almighty EA has bestowed upon the coveted Sims 4. Most of the complaints are actually constructive criticisms.

    But back on topic: I, and probably most others, want PROGRESS. It's all well and good to say 'better pathfinding, new clothes and hair, swapping sliders for grabbing' and so on, but that isn't worth a new game. That's not worth a $80 or $90 investment, when we basically have all of those features in the Sims 3. If it was OK, as some on this forum would have us believe, to not make any progress, then we'd still be stuck on a little lot with no world outside, with nothing happening outside of our own household and with ten minute loading screens to go to a community lot. We'd still rely on the carpool. We'd still only be able to have two storey houses and no basements.

    PROGRESS is what we want. Progress is what's severely lacking in what we've seen. New clothes, hair, flooring and furniture don't justify a new game. A new bit of the UI telling us how a Sim is feeling isn't worth $80. Those things belong in expansion packs or updates. So far, we've not seen any signs of real progress. Things are different, not improved.

    I don't think a bit of progress is much to ask for.

    *sighs* That's an insult on it's own. It's not ok to insult anybody, be they a big corporation or not. Most of the complaining is not constructive critisicm, most of it is complaining for complainings sake. Perhaps you and I grew up on two different planets but constructive critism is something akin to:

    "I don't like the art style they have, but so long as they include Create a style, I could live with it"

    You're offering something back on your critism. How you'd find it easier to cope with etc.

    Constructive critism is not:

    "This art style sucks. They'd better make it more realistic or I'm not buying it". There's nothing constructive in that at all.

    I've actually seen more of the latter than the former.

    Define progress. What's progress to you? What is worth $60 to $80 for a new base game, remembering that they can't program TS3's engine now without messing something else up?

    Something that is progress to you, could be stuck in a rut to somebody else.

    You seriously got all that from a showing of CAS and a trailer? You've got to be psychic to know that it has nothing new to offer at all.
  • SusiechanSusiechan Posts: 3,034 Member
    edited August 2013
    Is it really that hard not to insult the people who like it/don't like it and the Gurus themselves? I know it's difficult, but try to remember that behind the computer screen is a real person.

    I don't think it's really that hard. Some people just prefer "To fish in troubled waters" (I am not sure if it is the correct proverbs to describe that :-) )

    I read some comments in this forum and the other TS4 forum about "The people who are complaining about TS4 will end up buying it any way"

    That's totally true, because in my opinion, they are complaining not because they really hate TS4 but they have some "FEARS" they really want to avoid and some "WANTS" that need to fulfill :wink: . When they come around, then they will likely buy TS4. :D .

    In another hand, did we forget that the people who are praising TS4 now and have high expectations are most likely the ones who will end up "ranting/whining/complaining" after TS4 releases :wink: ?

    Well, that's probably because they don't expect the worse of it when they get their hand to it and start playing it. :P .

    That's a normal cycle in TS series, in every new game, EP/SP release. It's not something new. :-)
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 20,223 Member
    edited August 2013
    sparkles93 wrote:

    I agree with you completely. What I wanted to make a point on was the comparison between "Sims 4 vanilla pudding to Sims 3's best CC". No it's not really a fair comparison--for the Sims 3. If everyone ignores the Sims and stops complaining about the cartoony-ness and takes a glance at everything else, maybe they'll see how promising the new game looks. You can see every single brick in the Sims 3 back wall, while the Sims 4 brick wall looks more realistic by design. The sims in both pictures look remarkably similar in certain aspects (the flawless skin, angular faces, etc.). And if Sims 3 is on high, while Sims 4 is still being worked on and possibly not at the top of its game yet, I think we can expect greatness from the game.

    That's because the TS3 wall is an unpainted concrete block wall. You are supposed to see every block. The TS4 wall is a painted aged brick wall. It's about time EA started making more aged textures. You have to turn to CC to get some really good ones. Their floor textures have been spotty in variety and quality too. Most of their wood floors are narrow slats and the wide one is a rustic CAS pattern that is not consistent with the other flooring. It looks like it belongs in another game. If it wasn't for Create-A-Style I would probably have a lot of CC flooring.
    Hogwarts_siggies_copy.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds
  • iPatrickediPatricked Posts: 260 Member
    edited August 2013
    Arletta wrote:
    iPatricked wrote:
    First of all, I want the EA fanboys/girls to realise that it's OK to criticise EA. Complaining about people complaining is pretty hypocritical. It's OK to not like something in the game, or not agree with a decision almighty EA has bestowed upon the coveted Sims 4. Most of the complaints are actually constructive criticisms.

    But back on topic: I, and probably most others, want PROGRESS. It's all well and good to say 'better pathfinding, new clothes and hair, swapping sliders for grabbing' and so on, but that isn't worth a new game. That's not worth a $80 or $90 investment, when we basically have all of those features in the Sims 3. If it was OK, as some on this forum would have us believe, to not make any progress, then we'd still be stuck on a little lot with no world outside, with nothing happening outside of our own household and with ten minute loading screens to go to a community lot. We'd still rely on the carpool. We'd still only be able to have two storey houses and no basements.

    PROGRESS is what we want. Progress is what's severely lacking in what we've seen. New clothes, hair, flooring and furniture don't justify a new game. A new bit of the UI telling us how a Sim is feeling isn't worth $80. Those things belong in expansion packs or updates. So far, we've not seen any signs of real progress. Things are different, not improved.

    I don't think a bit of progress is much to ask for.

    *sighs* That's an insult on it's own. It's not ok to insult anybody, be they a big corporation or not. Most of the complaining is not constructive critisicm, most of it is complaining for complainings sake. Perhaps you and I grew up on two different planets but constructive critism is something akin to:

    "I don't like the art style they have, but so long as they include Create a style, I could live with it"

    You're offering something back on your critism. How you'd find it easier to cope with etc.

    Constructive critism is not:

    "This art style sucks. They'd better make it more realistic or I'm not buying it". There's nothing constructive in that at all.

    I've actually seen more of the latter than the former.

    Define progress. What's progress to you? What is worth $60 to $80 for a new base game, remembering that they can't program TS3's engine now without messing something else up?

    Something that is progress to you, could be stuck in a rut to somebody else.

    You seriously got all that from a showing of CAS and a trailer? You've got to be psychic to know that it has nothing new to offer at all.

    An insult? What, not liking the game? :roll:

    That IS constructive criticism. But there's no point in covering it up in a sweet little package anymore, because the message is clear: many people aren't satisfied with the graphics. Be it not realistic enough or just not of a high enough quality, there are many who are upset with the way the game looks. It's been four years since the Sims 3 was released, but many of us can't see four years' worth of graphical improvement.

    Progress? It's new. It's something different that improves the game dramatically. It's a combination of many such things. It's something that defines the games. Progress from the Sims to the Sims 2? Hugely increased graphics, proper relationships, age groups and the idea of aspiration and ambition. These were huge steps forward. From TS2 to TS3? The open world. Story progression. Traits. There's a huge difference, that everyone can notice, no matter which game you prefer.

    Difference between TS3 and TS4? So far, next to nothing. Less graphical improvement than we've ever seen, in the opinion of many. I guess it's 'emotion', but that's basically a few words to tell you something we could already figure out for ourselves. And yes, this can all be worked out. A game's launch is the opportunity to show off all of these new features. There has been a huge four (I think) day convention, which EA flew people half way across the world to attend, and they've hardly shown us any progress. Would they really go to all of that effort and expense to not show us the 'big thing'? Almost certainly not.

    I'm not saying there's not going to be any progress. I'm very careful not to do that. But it's fairly safe to say that we're not seeing any big jumps. There's no more giant leaps for simkind that has always justified the price of a new Sims game. They've shown us more of the same. Remember the Sims 3 launch, and how EA boasted the open world? There's none of that in the Sims 4. And that's pretty devastating.
  • Cyron43Cyron43 Posts: 8,055 Member
    edited August 2013
    MikeSneed wrote:
    Cyron43 wrote:
    Well Hannoie, I can tell you what I expected.
    At the beginning of 2013 I started to play GTA IV and I was amazed by the graphics quality, this huge city which is bigger than every Sims 3 map there is and the fact that this game has a physics engine.
    Then I thought, "wow, wouldn't it be great if Sims 4 comes with this?".
    FYI: GTA IV was released about one year before Sims 3 and it came with features and a quality we still don't see in TS4!
    Later the first screenshots of GTA V were published and I was even more amazed.
    Now that I have seen all the screens and videos of Sims 4 it's a major letdown for me.
    The graphics look cartoony, the Sims are ok but the game has still no physics engine, which is pretty much standard nowadays.
    So I will definitely get GTA V as soon as it's released for PC but I couldn't care less for TS4.

    I don't think many people's computers could handle those levels of graphics though...
    No look, that's my point. Computers were able to handle it even 5 years ago when GTA IV was released!
    Sims 4 is not more demanding than GTA IV or V.
    This space is for rent.
  • Cyron43Cyron43 Posts: 8,055 Member
    edited August 2013
    iPatricked wrote:
    First of all, I want the EA fanboys/girls to realise that it's OK to criticise EA. Complaining about people complaining is pretty hypocritical. It's OK to not like something in the game, or not agree with a decision almighty EA has bestowed upon the coveted Sims 4. Most of the complaints are actually constructive criticisms.

    But back on topic: I, and probably most others, want PROGRESS. It's all well and good to say 'better pathfinding, new clothes and hair, swapping sliders for grabbing' and so on, but that isn't worth a new game. That's not worth a $80 or $90 investment, when we basically have all of those features in the Sims 3. If it was OK, as some on this forum would have us believe, to not make any progress, then we'd still be stuck on a little lot with no world outside, with nothing happening outside of our own household and with ten minute loading screens to go to a community lot. We'd still rely on the carpool. We'd still only be able to have two storey houses and no basements.

    PROGRESS is what we want. Progress is what's severely lacking in what we've seen. New clothes, hair, flooring and furniture don't justify a new game. A new bit of the UI telling us how a Sim is feeling isn't worth $80. Those things belong in expansion packs or updates. So far, we've not seen any signs of real progress. Things are different, not improved.

    I don't think a bit of progress is much to ask for.
    :thumbup: MSN-Emoticon-applause-004.gif
    This space is for rent.
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited August 2013
    iPatricked wrote:
    Arletta wrote:
    iPatricked wrote:
    First of all, I want the EA fanboys/girls to realise that it's OK to criticise EA. Complaining about people complaining is pretty hypocritical. It's OK to not like something in the game, or not agree with a decision almighty EA has bestowed upon the coveted Sims 4. Most of the complaints are actually constructive criticisms.

    But back on topic: I, and probably most others, want PROGRESS. It's all well and good to say 'better pathfinding, new clothes and hair, swapping sliders for grabbing' and so on, but that isn't worth a new game. That's not worth a $80 or $90 investment, when we basically have all of those features in the Sims 3. If it was OK, as some on this forum would have us believe, to not make any progress, then we'd still be stuck on a little lot with no world outside, with nothing happening outside of our own household and with ten minute loading screens to go to a community lot. We'd still rely on the carpool. We'd still only be able to have two storey houses and no basements.

    PROGRESS is what we want. Progress is what's severely lacking in what we've seen. New clothes, hair, flooring and furniture don't justify a new game. A new bit of the UI telling us how a Sim is feeling isn't worth $80. Those things belong in expansion packs or updates. So far, we've not seen any signs of real progress. Things are different, not improved.

    I don't think a bit of progress is much to ask for.

    *sighs* That's an insult on it's own. It's not ok to insult anybody, be they a big corporation or not. Most of the complaining is not constructive critisicm, most of it is complaining for complainings sake. Perhaps you and I grew up on two different planets but constructive critism is something akin to:

    "I don't like the art style they have, but so long as they include Create a style, I could live with it"

    You're offering something back on your critism. How you'd find it easier to cope with etc.

    Constructive critism is not:

    "This art style sucks. They'd better make it more realistic or I'm not buying it". There's nothing constructive in that at all.

    I've actually seen more of the latter than the former.

    Define progress. What's progress to you? What is worth $60 to $80 for a new base game, remembering that they can't program TS3's engine now without messing something else up?

    Something that is progress to you, could be stuck in a rut to somebody else.

    You seriously got all that from a showing of CAS and a trailer? You've got to be psychic to know that it has nothing new to offer at all.

    An insult? What, not liking the game? :roll:

    That IS constructive criticism. But there's no point in covering it up in a sweet little package anymore, because the message is clear: many people aren't satisfied with the graphics. Be it not realistic enough or just not of a high enough quality, there are many who are upset with the way the game looks. It's been four years since the Sims 3 was released, but many of us can't see four years' worth of graphical improvement.

    Progress? It's new. It's something different that improves the game dramatically. It's a combination of many such things. It's something that defines the games. Progress from the Sims to the Sims 2? Hugely increased graphics, proper relationships, age groups and the idea of aspiration and ambition. These were huge steps forward. From TS2 to TS3? The open world. Story progression. Traits. There's a huge difference, that everyone can notice, no matter which game you prefer.

    Difference between TS3 and TS4? So far, next to nothing. Less graphical improvement than we've ever seen, in the opinion of many. I guess it's 'emotion', but that's basically a few words to tell you something we could already figure out for ourselves. And yes, this can all be worked out. A game's launch is the opportunity to show off all of these new features. There has been a huge four (I think) day convention, which EA flew people half way across the world to attend, and they've hardly shown us any progress. Would they really go to all of that effort and expense to not show us the 'big thing'? Almost certainly not.

    I'm not saying there's not going to be any progress. I'm very careful not to do that. But it's fairly safe to say that we're not seeing any big jumps. There's no more giant leaps for simkind that has always justified the price of a new Sims game. They've shown us more of the same. Remember the Sims 3 launch, and how EA boasted the open world? There's none of that in the Sims 4. And that's pretty devastating.

    Of course not liking the game isn't an insult. My family dislike the sims. Not an insult. Personal preference.

    I'm tempted to call you names in return but there we are. I'll behave. Calling ppl 'EA fanboys/girls' however is an insult. Want me to call you a hater, just cos?

    They were careful enough to emphasise pre alpha, which has to mean something, as in they're not finished. At Simscamp, they couldn't show any other age stages in CAS because they weren't completed yet. They make leaps and strides daily.

    Just because they haven't showed us something big doesn't mean something big doesn't exist. Time will tell.
  • almariandaalmarianda Posts: 55 Member
    edited August 2013

    "My Perfect Game"

    -Offline open world gameplay, with main neighbourhood and "specialized hoods" like a mix of Sims 1 and The Urbz - but still open!

    -Option to play other neighbourhoods online on main platform by EA or invites to CAW made worlds interacting with other players and their Sims.

    - CAS builder program where players can create their own clothes, hair and furnitures etc. To make this affordable to EA, you (creator) would buy it (like store) to be able to use in game, and have others "buy" your creations (but EA get the whole profit). This way, players will get what they want without EA loosing money.

    - Players will be able to set their "world or hood" to a certain genre, time or epoch. Making some objects, clothes, vehicles NA in that world. And being able to change it during gameplay, for those story tellers telling stories.

    - players would be able to choose weather, life stages and all that and even set different weather within the same hood. Snow capped mountains and sunny shores... Creepy haunted forest and modern living... "Zoning" for the differences within the hood.

    - Complete adjustable Sims in every single way possible (realistic of course).

    - houses on lots do not need to be moved to a bigger lot. there should be an option to buy "empty" land around the lot, making it bigger. even buy the house next to it, demolish it and join the two lots.

    - all sports, animals, vehicles that we currently have. being able to create a zoo from rescued animals, save species. Pro golf or hockey player? Play the saxophone? Yes My Dream Game got it all!

    - Join all previous games together to create the ultimate Sims Game. not to leave out any skill or feature!

    There are so much more, I can't cover it all, but it's all in my head. if only it would come in a game...
    Simmer since 2001
    Sims 3 still rules! <3
  • dhemlandhemlan Posts: 4 New Member
    edited August 2013
    I'm going to keep it short and sweet.

    Shorter loading time would be awesome.

    Also the ability to layer items of clothing myself rather than having to select already layered items. :)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • AlexRoz9AlexRoz9 Posts: 309 New Member
    edited August 2013
    What do I want? Besides slightly better graphics, (and it looks like we're getting those anyway, despite what some seem to think,) I can think of several things that would have immediately piqued my interest.

    1. The ability to pre–order the Mac version now. Seriously, I keep seeing articles saying that this is a PC/Mac title, but I've yet to see a way to pre–order the Mac version of the game. (I'm specifically after the physical copy for the Mac.) Origin, Amazon, and every other site is listing the game as PC Disc or PC Download, but the supposed Mac version isn't listed anywhere yet. Of course, I have mixed feelings about EA soliciting pre–orders for a game before announcing system requirements, but if they're going to solicit for one platform, they might as well solicit for the other.

    2. Speaking of the Mac version, I'd like to see a native Mac version, and not another half–baked Cider port as was the case with TS3. Specifically, I want native physical copies for the Mac that are on par with the PC versions of the game. That means a "Limited Edition" Mac version, a "Premium Pack" Mac physical copy, and while I realize this isn't a physical copy, a "Digital Deluxe" version for those who want it as well.

    3. I'd like for TS4 not to be riddled with bugs the way that TS3 was. This goes for both the Windows and Mac versions, both of which seemed to have an equal amount of problems that were never resolved. I'm not talking particularly about the crash–to–desktop, game–breaking bugs that suck the fun out of TS3 here; TS4 needs to be free of those very quickly, or it's going to wind up having a reputation on par with the new Sim City. TS3 sold well, but the bugs cut sales of the game in half compared to what TS2 was bringing in. Imagine how well TS3 would have sold if it wasn't still riddled with bugs five years after launch. TS4 needs to learn from this, and if that means delaying the game to fix major bugs before launch, I'm fine with it.

    4. Moving on to actual gameplay mechanics, I was hoping that EA would expand on the use of generations, and maybe the open world. Specifically, I think would have been interesting if your first generation of Sims began their life in "Sim Era 1900," with 1900–era objects and capabilities. By SE1920, your Sims would have electricity, primitive motor vehicles, and technology like radio. By SE1970, they'd have color TVs and Microwaves. Sims themselves would also have hair and clothing styles that would unlock after only a certain Sim decade had passed. For example, you could have something like bell bottoms show up in the Sim '70s, and mullets added to hairstyles in the Sim '80s. With regards to the open world itself, I was hoping for an optional mechanic similar to one depicted in the new Sim City. Let's say you decide to connect your game to the internet and check an option to share a specific world with Friends/Other Simmers. While I wouldn't want anything as advanced as what SC offers, I would like to be able to see different worlds off in the distance that would make the open world feel even more vast. Maybe you could even visit a friends world through an optional online component of the game. (The key word here is "optional," I can't stress that enough. I like single–player offline as much as everyone else.)

    5. Speaking off single–player offline mode, I'd like to never have to connect to Origin if I'm buying a physical copy of the game, even if it's only the first time I'm playing it. The day EA gets rid of that horrible platform is a day that we'll all be better off; EA will lose a cost center, and customers will lose a highly loathed platform.

    6. Seasons, Pets, and more than one world built into the base game. TS3 should have taught EA that these are things that people want on day one, not as part of an expansion pack. We know that weather was disabled in TS3's BG so that EA could put out a Seasons EP, and pets are so integral to many people's games that these are two things that should been in TS4 and all future Sims games at launch. Similarly, after the backlash TS3 received for not launching with more than one world, TS4 should have at least two or three of them in the BG. I honestly don't care if EA raises the price of the $76 US dollar "Premium Pack" to $120 if it means pulling this off from the get–go. Instead of selling us Seasons and Pets again, give us two new EPs and put Seasons and Pets in the BG from the get–go.

    7. While this is only a small wish, I'd kind of liked to see EA include another plumbob flash drive with TS4. I use the one from the TS3CE to back up all of the Sims and Lots I create. The drive that came with TS3 is a 2GB drive, and EA could easily throw an 8GB plumbob thumb drive in with TS4's Premium Pack to serve a similar purpose.

    Don't get me wrong, if there's a native Mac version available as physical copy, I'll buy TS4 as soon as it becomes available. However, there are definitely things that would have made me even more excited about this game than I already am.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,524 Member
    edited August 2013
    To those that are upset with some of us who expected much more than the little we have been shown, are you really saying what you have seen so far is really exactly what you dreamed about for TS4? really?

    You never dreamed the new game would just blow TS1, TS2 and TS3 out of the water? You dreamed for a game that you could play on a low end laptop?

    You never thought to yourself, my gosh, the graphics may be so intense and remarkable I might have to get a new PC?

    Are you telling us you agree with marketers that think the consumer doesn't know what they want until they are 'told' what they want? Really?

    You didn't know what you wanted and therefore you are really,really, thrilled with what has been shown. Are you not 'hoping' the hair isn't the final product? Are you not hoping they didn't leave out toddlers interactions this time?

    Are any that absolutely love it from the get go, saying yes this is worth $70 to $80 and none of it could have worked in TS3...set aside the bad AI in TS3..are you saying the 'emotioncons' couldn't have been added in a super new EP in TS3? That more animations of how a Sim may react couldn't have been reworked in TS3? really? That justifies all that money to get something that 'maybe' could have been added to TS3?

    Yes, new worlds and neighborhoods are great,...so many know that because they buy the Store worlds..but is it really not something that could have made it into TS3?

    Think about the giant leap TS2 took from TS1...no way would they have been able to do better graphics in that game..it was built on a 16bit design. No way would basements have been possible in that game due to the core game. Think of everything you can actually build in TS2..basements..deep, deep basements...foundations, ponds, lots above the clouds without foundations, 7 story buildings, let alone gameplay emotions, multitasking, interactions etc. and Gene mixing..and aging, and all the other things that just wouldn't have been possible in TS1.

    Then think about TS3's improvements..yes it does a have more than CASt. A game engine that must keep up with every Sim in a world..everyone of them..maybe not prosecuted so good as it could have been..but still a huge leap.

    Visual pleasing environments..even when it looks like shacks in TB that are down by a river etc...it is still very 'eye' pleasing and the grass moves in the breeze so do the trees...

    Then think about what we have seen so far in TS4..emotions are the selling point..are you saying they couldn't have made a more emotional Sim for TS3 and because they couldn't we need to buy a new game? really?
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/958714/cinebar-custom-content-clothes-updating-links/p1


  • pam4402003pam4402003 Posts: 998 Member
    edited August 2013
    Cinebar wrote:

    I have already experienced 'more advanced' building tools in TS2...not the modules..no those seem dumbed down to me..but ways to build that allowed me to build basements with windows, 7 story buildings, space stations hanging out in thin air, or treehouses in the actual trees in TS2 that allowed my Elves to live up in trees....split levels that allowed me to not have to use a stage or platform...no drag and drop necessary. I can see how some that don't like to build might like the new build feature..but what I don't see in that UI is a wall tool as in the past which means building is limited if you can't do what I just mentioned.

    Maybe building tools are improved (haven't seen enough to know) but still reminds me of a little kid's game..eye/hand coordination games.

    And may I add for $70.00 I can play TS2 which is paid for and have a smarter Sim, an emotional Sim, that does do a lot of multitasking in that game...and cares about the other Sims, and cheats to make them taller or short as a hobbit, and outlandish situations and gameplay.

    I'm sorry, but right now I don't see the 'revolunary' gameplay yet.



    I am a builder and I so agree with what you are saying here. If they are going to go this way with the building options in sims 4, well then I guess sims4 will not be for me. As I love building and creating new builds in my game It looks as though I will be very limited with doing so. Not to happy, :(
  • SchweighsrSchweighsr Posts: 3,342 Member
    edited August 2013
    I want Failure States!
  • ArlettaArletta Posts: 8,444 Member
    edited August 2013
    Cinebar wrote:
    To those that are upset with some of us who expected much more than the little we have been shown, are you really saying what you have seen so far is really exactly what you dreamed about for TS4? really?

    Not upset, Cinebar. You're all entitled to your own opinion but the negativity since the 'big' reveal is quite unreal, and this is from somebody who is used to negativity from simmers with the announcement of each pack (and has been known to contribute some negativity of their own). Dreamed, no. Where The Sims and EA are concerned, it's what I expected we would get at least so far.
    Cinebar wrote:
    You never dreamed the new game would just blow TS1, TS2 and TS3 out of the water? You dreamed for a game that you could play on a low end laptop?

    Shockingly, no, I didn't. It's EA. They're known to disappoint, especially their long term gamers. Why ppl have unrealistic expectations when it comes to these things, knowing how EA disappoints normally is quite quite beyond me. What in those eye shots said anything about uber realistic graphics, a physics engine, varying heights and no more rabbitholes? Absolutely nothing.

    Were you expecting any of those things, then you set yourself up for disappointment before you even began. It was fairly obvious from the blurb we got and the eye shots that what the majority of ppl were expecting was far from what we're getting. What I was expecting is pretty much what we're getting.

    The Sims is a long term series, they're not going to do something that alienates their demographic of players too much. Cartoony graphics more in line with TS2 along with more personable sims is about what I was expecting. It's what ppl have been asking for since TS3 began.
    Cinebar wrote:
    You never thought to yourself, my gosh, the graphics may be so intense and remarkable I might have to get a new PC?

    Yes. Those thoughts went out of the window when we were shown the Sims 4 eyes. Again, why ppl thought they were trolling us is quite quite beyond me.

    There again, you're talking to one of the few ppl who believe that ex Sims 4 worker that says that it was originally designed to be online but EA decided with the Simcity fiasco that it was a bad idea, scrapped most things and started over. I also believe that's why it's currently in pre-alpha.
    Cinebar wrote:
    Are you telling us you agree with marketers that think the consumer doesn't know what they want until they are 'told' what they want? Really?

    Again, no. I just know that we all function as individual beings, that we all expect different things from The Sims and we all expect EA to listen to us as individuals. It is impossible for them to please all of us. As a group, none of us can agree with what we want. Look how divided the site is just on the issue of graphics alone, never mind gameplay.
    Cinebar wrote:
    You didn't know what you wanted and therefore you are really,really, thrilled with what has been shown. Are you not 'hoping' the hair isn't the final product? Are you not hoping they didn't leave out toddlers interactions this time?

    I'm neither thrilled nor disappointed. I had my ideas of what would be fairly fixed in my mind. I am a realist and a cynic. What I want often isn't relevant to any discussion at any one time. As it goes, I'm fairly content with TS3. I have that. I expect that TS4 will be closer to TS2 than TS3 is. I expect most ppl sat here telling us that TS4 sucks will in about a years time, give or take, be playing TS4, regardless. The hair doesn't bother me. It fits in with the rest of the art style. I suspect they'll improve it. I don't think they'll leave out an age group again.
    Cinebar wrote:
    Are any that absolutely love it from the get go, saying yes this is worth $70 to $80 and none of it could have worked in TS3...set aside the bad AI in TS3..are you saying the 'emotioncons' couldn't have been added in a super new EP in TS3? That more animations of how a Sim may react couldn't have been reworked in TS3? really? That justifies all that money to get something that 'maybe' could have been added to TS3?

    Yes, new worlds and neighborhoods are great,...so many know that because they buy the Store worlds..but is it really not something that could have made it into TS3?

    Worth is subjective to the person involved. I may think it's 'worth' it when we know more. As the saying goes, one man's junk is another man's treasure. I live with a hoarder. My mum. She keeps things that I would've thrown out many years ago. To her those things are worth keeping, to me they're not.

    No, I don't think any of it could have been added in to an EP for TS3. It'd require base game recoding, which they're not going to do. Each time they try they bug it up more than it was originally, which is saying a lot. Even if you don't believe that then just assume that it can take so much and TS3 has about reached it's limit.
    Cinebar wrote:
    Think about the giant leap TS2 took from TS1...no way would they have been able to do better graphics in that game..it was built on a 16bit design. No way would basements have been possible in that game due to the core game. Think of everything you can actually build in TS2..basements..deep, deep basements...foundations, ponds, lots above the clouds without foundations, 7 story buildings, let alone gameplay emotions, multitasking, interactions etc. and Gene mixing..and aging, and all the other things that just wouldn't have been possible in TS1.

    Then think about TS3's improvements..yes it does a have more than CASt. A game engine that must keep up with every Sim in a world..everyone of them..maybe not prosecuted so good as it could have been..but still a huge leap.

    Visual pleasing environments..even when it looks like shacks in TB that are down by a river etc...it is still very 'eye' pleasing and the grass moves in the breeze so do the trees...

    Then think about what we have seen so far in TS4..emotions are the selling point..are you saying they couldn't have made a more emotional Sim for TS3 and because they couldn't we need to buy a new game? really?

    Nobody knows with any certainty if it has a new big thing or not. I'm sure it will have something. Perhaps it's a something you have to experience rather than something that can be explained. Perhaps they're keeping silent because they don't want to ruin sales of the remaining packs for TS3. I refuse to make a snap judgement until I can make that judgement in some fairly solid fact first. Half the negativity is due to the fact that others have made the snap judgements that I won't do. I do know that even if I wanted to enjoy TS4 for what it is I couldn't because everyone else is quite prepared to run it down before it's even left it's starting block.

    Of course they couldn't. Not without changing everything we think of TS3 and trying unsuccessfully to remarket it. It's far better to start anew with no preconceptions of the game other than it's the sims. At least that's how it's supposed to work. Yet here we are.
  • HannoieHannoie Posts: 752 Member
    edited August 2013
    I guess this sort of turned out to a fight about the graphics anyways... :lol:

    To those of you who feel offended when I say some people just whine and whine without coming with any better ideas, may I ask you why you feel offended? Some people do just whine. Nobody can say anything else. But if you really think you're not one of the whiners, then why do you take offence? If you don't think you are, then you're probably not.

    And if you don't want to explain what would make The Sims 4 worth it, then I won't force you. Just please don't leave some unnecessary comment about how offended you feel and what a stupid question this is because you don't have to answer it, and why can't I just let you dislike The Sims 4 and mind my own buissiness?

    If that really is how you feel, then move on to another thread. I really didn't ask for that kind of comments, I'm just curious about what really would make The Sims 4 worth your money.
  • SimEnterpriseSimEnterprise Posts: 73 Member
    edited August 2013
    Hannoie wrote:
    I have to say...better graphics, i know that graphics isn't a new thing (all games have graphics :s) but EA could improve a little this "old" thing in the sims 4, for exemple....the hair, it seems like a piece of plastic,i wanted a hair that really flows. And the thing that i really want in the game, some kind of online feature.... or at least something that if i'm in a pc and my husband in another we can play together in the same neighbourhood.

    And please, graphics really matters, or else everyone were still playing with the graphics that we had in the tomb raider 1.. lol (i love that game, but the graphics are creepy now)

    edit: for the people that says that the sims were made to be a parody of live, and has to be a cartoonish game, why is that? People can be silly too doesn't have to be a cartoon. And sims is a SIMULATOR OF REAL LIVE so why not have more realistic things? We can still have aliens and fairies and that kind of stuff and not have to be a "loony tune".
    Please, leave the complaining about graphics elsewhere. I don't say I like that blocky hair, but Pre-Alpha guys. That's all I'm gonna say. What huge, awesome, life changing feature is it that The Sims 4 is lacking in your opinion?


    This is what Pre-Alpha means for EA:

    Stage 3 - Pre-Alpha/ Alpha Testing: Pre-alpha is where they start to put the modules together and see if they work. This never works the 1st time, so they have to find out which parts of which Modules conflict, then reprogram the Modules, then try again... and again... and again. There is still a lot of programming to be done in this stage. When they can run some of those Modules together [say a interactions module and an emotions module and some animations modules] they usually start releasing videos and screenshots of the game. The reason we only see a certain amount of game-play over and over is because they are the only parts of the game that work without error.

    This is the phase the game is in now. 90% of the programming has been done, it is just a matter of making the separate pieces work together. All they are doing is tweaking the programming. Once they have tested the modules in groups, they will put the whole game together and test it. By the time it enters alpha-testing the game is essentially done - nothing more will be added or changed.

    So yes. For a game that will cost 60$ we are entitled to complain about the graphics.
  • JadedsinsJadedsins Posts: 233 Member
    edited August 2013
    -Shorter loading times
    -Not needing a Addon to fix the issues with the game.
    -Lan Co op or muti player support.
    -Offline mode if add the above.
    -Better pathing.
    -Random events.
    -Start out with at least Weather.
  • SimEnterpriseSimEnterprise Posts: 73 Member
    edited August 2013
    Arletta wrote:
    iPatricked wrote:
    Arletta wrote:
    iPatricked wrote:
    First of all, I want the EA fanboys/girls to realise that it's OK to criticise EA. Complaining about people complaining is pretty hypocritical. It's OK to not like something in the game, or not agree with a decision almighty EA has bestowed upon the coveted Sims 4. Most of the complaints are actually constructive criticisms.

    But back on topic: I, and probably most others, want PROGRESS. It's all well and good to say 'better pathfinding, new clothes and hair, swapping sliders for grabbing' and so on, but that isn't worth a new game. That's not worth a $80 or $90 investment, when we basically have all of those features in the Sims 3. If it was OK, as some on this forum would have us believe, to not make any progress, then we'd still be stuck on a little lot with no world outside, with nothing happening outside of our own household and with ten minute loading screens to go to a community lot. We'd still rely on the carpool. We'd still only be able to have two storey houses and no basements.

    PROGRESS is what we want. Progress is what's severely lacking in what we've seen. New clothes, hair, flooring and furniture don't justify a new game. A new bit of the UI telling us how a Sim is feeling isn't worth $80. Those things belong in expansion packs or updates. So far, we've not seen any signs of real progress. Things are different, not improved.

    I don't think a bit of progress is much to ask for.

    *sighs* That's an insult on it's own. It's not ok to insult anybody, be they a big corporation or not. Most of the complaining is not constructive critisicm, most of it is complaining for complainings sake. Perhaps you and I grew up on two different planets but constructive critism is something akin to:

    "I don't like the art style they have, but so long as they include Create a style, I could live with it"

    You're offering something back on your critism. How you'd find it easier to cope with etc.

    Constructive critism is not:

    "This art style sucks. They'd better make it more realistic or I'm not buying it". There's nothing constructive in that at all.

    I've actually seen more of the latter than the former.

    Define progress. What's progress to you? What is worth $60 to $80 for a new base game, remembering that they can't program TS3's engine now without messing something else up?

    Something that is progress to you, could be stuck in a rut to somebody else.

    You seriously got all that from a showing of CAS and a trailer? You've got to be psychic to know that it has nothing new to offer at all.

    An insult? What, not liking the game? :roll:

    That IS constructive criticism. But there's no point in covering it up in a sweet little package anymore, because the message is clear: many people aren't satisfied with the graphics. Be it not realistic enough or just not of a high enough quality, there are many who are upset with the way the game looks. It's been four years since the Sims 3 was released, but many of us can't see four years' worth of graphical improvement.

    Progress? It's new. It's something different that improves the game dramatically. It's a combination of many such things. It's something that defines the games. Progress from the Sims to the Sims 2? Hugely increased graphics, proper relationships, age groups and the idea of aspiration and ambition. These were huge steps forward. From TS2 to TS3? The open world. Story progression. Traits. There's a huge difference, that everyone can notice, no matter which game you prefer.

    Difference between TS3 and TS4? So far, next to nothing. Less graphical improvement than we've ever seen, in the opinion of many. I guess it's 'emotion', but that's basically a few words to tell you something we could already figure out for ourselves. And yes, this can all be worked out. A game's launch is the opportunity to show off all of these new features. There has been a huge four (I think) day convention, which EA flew people half way across the world to attend, and they've hardly shown us any progress. Would they really go to all of that effort and expense to not show us the 'big thing'? Almost certainly not.

    I'm not saying there's not going to be any progress. I'm very careful not to do that. But it's fairly safe to say that we're not seeing any big jumps. There's no more giant leaps for simkind that has always justified the price of a new Sims game. They've shown us more of the same. Remember the Sims 3 launch, and how EA boasted the open world? There's none of that in the Sims 4. And that's pretty devastating.

    Of course not liking the game isn't an insult. My family dislike the sims. Not an insult. Personal preference.

    I'm tempted to call you names in return but there we are. I'll behave. Calling ppl 'EA fanboys/girls' however is an insult. Want me to call you a hater, just cos?

    They were careful enough to emphasise pre alpha, which has to mean something, as in they're not finished. At Simscamp, they couldn't show any other age stages in CAS because they weren't completed yet. They make leaps and strides daily.

    Just because they haven't showed us something big doesn't mean something big doesn't exist. Time will tell.

    You can call disappointed simmers what you want. That is not important. The fact is that no major progress have been made between TS3 and TS4.

    Also please see how EA does game design.
    Here is how a game is designed [copied from a blog]

    Stage 1 - Planning: This is the stage where they decide what they want the game to do and look like. This stage can take anywhere from 3 months to 3 years. During this phase they decide what the game will be like - what will be included, what will be left to an EP, etc. They also have artists sketch out designs for objects, Sims, the neighborhood and so on.

    Stage 2 - Programming: Programming takes 3 months to several years depending on how complex the programming is [TS4 probably took over two years while an EP probably takes 6 to 9 months]. The game is built in Modules, each of which does a different thing. There will be one Module for emotions, another for meals and a even more for each NPC. Each Module is programmed by a separate team of programmers. The game consists of dozens, if not hundreds, or modules.

    By this time the way the game is played is set in stone. The decision whether to animate hair is made. The look of the Sims has been chosen. They are not going to change any of those things.

    Stage 3 - Pre-Alpha/ Alpha Testing: Pre-alpha is where they start to put the modules together and see if they work. This never works the 1st time, so they have to find out which parts of which Modules conflict, then reprogram the Modules, then try again... and again... and again. There is still a lot of programming to be done in this stage. When they can run some of those Modules together [say a interactions module and an emotions module and some animations modules] they usually start releasing videos and screenshots of the game. The reason we only see a certain amount of game-play over and over is because they are the only parts of the game that work without error.

    This is the phase the game is in now. 90% of the programming has been done, it is just a matter of making the separate pieces work together. All they are doing is tweaking the programming. Once they have tested the modules in groups, they will put the whole game together and test it. By the time it enters alpha-testing the game is essentially done - nothing more will be added or changed.

    Stage 4 - Beta-Testing: In this phase EA hunts for bugs. They have a group of people try it out on a variety of different computers with different specs and operating systems and see what happens. Each day the testers report the bugs back to The Sims Team, who correct the problems and send the fixes back to the testers to see if the fix causes problems. This takes a MINIMUM of 6 weeks and may take longer. It takes the same amount of time for a game as for an EP. [No, you can't be a Beta-Tester - you need a degree in Computer Science to do it right. It is more than just playing the unfinished game. ] EA is notorious for not doing this stage right. They should send it out to a reputable third party who specializes in game testing, instead they do it in-house.

    Stage 5 - Manufacturing: At this point the game is completely done. They take a copy of the completed, [mostly] debugged game and send it to be copied, get the boxes and the booklets printed and have everything put together. The day it is sent to the manufacturer the game is said to have 'gone gold' [way back in the old days they used to put the finished game on a gold-colored disk]. Then the disks have to be put in the boxes along with the instructions and everything has to be shipped to the retailers. Manufacturing takes a minimum of 3 to 6 weeks for games & EPs both.

    There is one exception to this whole thing - variations of objects can be added even during alpha- and beta-testing. Once they have finished programming a chair [and making it work] they can make as many different chairs as they want. Variations of objects will continue to be added right up until the game 'goes gold'. Yes, this includes hair-styles, too [which is what everyone is complaining about] but the new hairstyles will look and act just like the styles we have already seen. They won't be animated and they won't have much more shape than what we have already seen.
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