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I hope we don't get any false advertising

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Remember The Sims 2 official EA trailer…

Kids were causing chaos, the house was wrecked, curtains all screwed up, pictures hanging skewwhiff . Kids running around hitting furniture and Dad with bats. Swinging off the fan light. Swinging on the floor plant. Up on the counters, tipping over the couch.

Totally nothing like the game – you couldn’t do anything like this.

I know advertising ultimate purpose is to leave the consumers with a sense of curiosity, wanting more, but to portray a gaming experience which is totally impossible to achieve and irrelative to what you actually get is a major deception and rip off.

I hope The Sims 4 trailers and promotions inspire us in truth.

Comments

  • MadMan5126MadMan5126 Posts: 366 New Member
    edited July 2013
    Salem wrote:
    Remember The Sims 2 official EA trailer…

    Kids were causing chaos, the house was wrecked, curtains all screwed up, pictures hanging skewwhiff . Kids running around hitting furniture and Dad with bats. Swinging off the fan light. Swinging on the floor plant. Up on the counters, tipping over the couch.

    Totally nothing like the game – you couldn’t do anything like this.

    I know advertising ultimate purpose is to leave the consumers with a sense of curiosity, wanting more, but to portray a gaming experience which is totally impossible to achieve and irrelative to what you actually get is a major deception and rip off.

    I hope The Sims 4 trailers and promotions inspire us in truth.

    Because there was like a fire at EA and a lot of the sims 2 stuff was destroyed before they released it so alot of features like Weather and all that stuff had to be taken out so they could meet their deadlines.
  • TheGreenLionTheGreenLion Posts: 1,635 Member
    edited July 2013
    Well with any trailer it'll be stylized and edited like crazy. I'm sure you can do that stuff, but it won't be *quite* as dramatic as the trailer. It'll still be darn close I think. The Sims 3 trailer was just about on point.
  • lovcatlovcat Posts: 1,146 Member
    edited July 2013
    Most trailers for games don't even show actual gameplay. It's not false advertising exactly... just at the moment the industry standard. They need to make the game seem appealing so everything is staged or actually a cinematic representation of the game.


    Before people jump on me with exceptions. Please do note that I said "Most" not "All".
  • artlove1artlove1 Posts: 1,236 Member
    edited July 2013
    The sims 2 trailer... AWESOME

    If the sims 4 allowed children to do that.. I would be buying it in a heartbeat!
  • SalemSalem Posts: 316 New Member
    edited July 2013
    MadMan5126 wrote:
    Salem wrote:
    Remember The Sims 2 official EA trailer…

    Kids were causing chaos, the house was wrecked, curtains all screwed up, pictures hanging skewwhiff . Kids running around hitting furniture and Dad with bats. Swinging off the fan light. Swinging on the floor plant. Up on the counters, tipping over the couch.

    Totally nothing like the game – you couldn’t do anything like this.

    I know advertising ultimate purpose is to leave the consumers with a sense of curiosity, wanting more, but to portray a gaming experience which is totally impossible to achieve and irrelative to what you actually get is a major deception and rip off.

    I hope The Sims 4 trailers and promotions inspire us in truth.

    Because there was like a fire at EA and a lot of the sims 2 stuff was destroyed before they released it so alot of features like Weather and all that stuff had to be taken out so they could meet their deadlines.

    Yeah I know about the fire - but I'm sure the game was never going to be like the trailer! And why not make another trailer?

  • COOLGAME8013COOLGAME8013 Posts: 3,090 Member
    edited July 2013
    Salem wrote:
    Remember The Sims 2 official EA trailer…

    Kids were causing chaos, the house was wrecked, curtains all screwed up, pictures hanging skewwhiff . Kids running around hitting furniture and Dad with bats. Swinging off the fan light. Swinging on the floor plant. Up on the counters, tipping over the couch.

    Totally nothing like the game – you couldn’t do anything like this.

    I know advertising ultimate purpose is to leave the consumers with a sense of curiosity, wanting more, but to portray a gaming experience which is totally impossible to achieve and irrelative to what you actually get is a major deception and rip off.

    I hope The Sims 4 trailers and promotions inspire us in truth.

    Trailers go in many ways, they are sorta like speeches but visual/verbal.

    They can go from themes like -
    Informative

    Entertaining

    Realistic

    Fake

    Persuasive

    The path The Sims 2 trailer took was the Entertaining.
    Are you suggesting it was wrong of sixaM to take the entertaining route for their game trailer?
  • SalemSalem Posts: 316 New Member
    edited July 2013
    artlove1 wrote:
    The sims 2 trailer... AWESOME

    If the sims 4 allowed children to do that.. I would be buying it in a heartbeat!

    OH YEAH!!! wouldn't it be fab!

    (Don't get me wrong I think The Sims 2 is an AWESOME game altogether.)
  • SalemSalem Posts: 316 New Member
    edited July 2013
    Salem wrote:
    Remember The Sims 2 official EA trailer…

    Kids were causing chaos, the house was wrecked, curtains all screwed up, pictures hanging skewwhiff . Kids running around hitting furniture and Dad with bats. Swinging off the fan light. Swinging on the floor plant. Up on the counters, tipping over the couch.

    Totally nothing like the game – you couldn’t do anything like this.

    I know advertising ultimate purpose is to leave the consumers with a sense of curiosity, wanting more, but to portray a gaming experience which is totally impossible to achieve and irrelative to what you actually get is a major deception and rip off.

    I hope The Sims 4 trailers and promotions inspire us in truth.

    Trailers go in many ways, they are sorta like speeches but visual/verbal.

    They can go from themes like -
    Informative

    Entertaining

    Realistic

    Fake

    Persuasive

    The path The Sims 2 trailer took was the Entertaining.
    Are you suggesting it was wrong of sixaM to take the entertaining route for their game trailer?

    Yeah!

    Its advertising a game you could never play!

    An entertaining spin is one thing but for the actions to be so far from the truth and the inability to even get a margin of that type of chaos in game is taking the 'entertainment factor' too far
  • dreamsong1968dreamsong1968 Posts: 4,473 Member
    edited July 2013
    **Warning: I'm in a mood tonight! Proceed at your own risk.**


    First false advertising will be the system specs--especially if you want to run it on a Mac.

    Second false advertising--that it will be relatively bug-free and will be patched.


    **Don't say I didn't warn you!**
  • dreamsong1968dreamsong1968 Posts: 4,473 Member
    edited July 2013
    Well with any trailer it'll be stylized and edited like crazy. I'm sure you can do that stuff, but it won't be *quite* as dramatic as the trailer. It'll still be darn close I think. The Sims 3 trailer was just about on point.

    At best it will be a "movie" similar to the cutaways we had in TS2 or the start-up screen. At worst there will be blatant things like Grim (who you can't have in your game unless you like ISSUES) riding on a horse.
  • COOLGAME8013COOLGAME8013 Posts: 3,090 Member
    edited July 2013
    **Warning: I'm in a mood tonight! Proceed at your own risk.**


    First false advertising will be the system specs--especially if you want to run it on a Mac.

    Second false advertising--that it will be relatively bug-free and will be patched.


    **Don't say I didn't warn you!**

    ^^ This ^^
  • lovcatlovcat Posts: 1,146 Member
    edited July 2013
    Games will always have bugs. That's about it.

    If you'll buy a game based on the belief that there will be no bugs, I have a telephone that will let you talk to aliens.. and I'll give you a REALLY good deal on it.
  • IfreshyehIfreshyeh Posts: 1,403 Member
    edited July 2013
    I think 'false advertisement' is synonymous with 'game trailer'.
    But I also think that 'Did You Know' video on SimsVIP is going to be wielded like crazy for now on.
  • dreamsong1968dreamsong1968 Posts: 4,473 Member
    edited July 2013
    lovcat wrote:
    Games will always have bugs. That's about it.

    If you'll buy a game based on the belief that there will be no bugs, I have a telephone that will let you talk to aliens.. and I'll give you a REALLY good deal on it.

    Didn't say without bugs, but "relatively bug-free." Frankly, unless you want to give me that phone for free I can't afford it. I spent all of my money on this game!!!! :wink::wink::lol:
  • lovcatlovcat Posts: 1,146 Member
    edited July 2013

    Didn't say without bugs, but "relatively bug-free." Frankly, unless you want to give me that phone for free I can't afford it. I spent all of my money on this game!!!! :wink::wink::lol:

    I'm just saying the common misconception is that some games have no bugs. This isn't true. All games have bugs, it's just that not everyone who owns or plays the game will experience the same bugs. Things are dependent on hardware/drivers/state of the computer/or the combination of actions they're doing within the game.

    I have a bug in IP where I cannot get mermaid kelp from a mermaid. Does everyone have this bug? No. Why do I have this bug? I don't know. Just happens.
  • TheGreenLionTheGreenLion Posts: 1,635 Member
    edited July 2013
    Well with any trailer it'll be stylized and edited like crazy. I'm sure you can do that stuff, but it won't be *quite* as dramatic as the trailer. It'll still be darn close I think. The Sims 3 trailer was just about on point.

    At best it will be a "movie" similar to the cutaways we had in TS2 or the start-up screen. At worst there will be blatant things like Grim (who you can't have in your game unless you like ISSUES) riding on a horse.

    People keep going back after TS2 for their example, watch the Sims 3 launch trailer again. The only thing you couldn't do in there is set off car alarms (would have been nice). The rest was completely possible with some extra work on your part to make it happen.

    But sure, they're going to show you the highlights. They won't show you the bugs. I don't think their latest title had a bogus launch trailer, we'll see what their marketing department is up to in the next.
  • dreamsong1968dreamsong1968 Posts: 4,473 Member
    edited July 2013
    lovcat wrote:

    Didn't say without bugs, but "relatively bug-free." Frankly, unless you want to give me that phone for free I can't afford it. I spent all of my money on this game!!!! :wink::wink::lol:

    I'm just saying the common misconception is that some games have no bugs. This isn't true. All games have bugs, it's just that not everyone who owns or plays the game will experience the same bugs. Things are dependent on hardware/drivers/state of the computer/or the combination of actions they're doing within the game.

    I have a bug in IP where I cannot get mermaid kelp from a mermaid. Does everyone have this bug? No. Why do I have this bug? I don't know. Just happens.

    So you didn't want people to jump on you about the use of "most" vs. "all", but...OK...

    What I would like to know is why you can install IP--and I am playing a base game that hard crashes regularly--on a way beyond system specs computer. You missed my point entirely.

    The first misconception (false advertising) is that they are going to release a game that will work at minimum (or anything close) specs.

    Example: I play CivV. I start the game. It loads/updates. I open my save. I play. I save when I need to save. It doesn't crash. I don't have to spend half-a-day or more looking for work-arounds. I don't have to install mods in order for the features to work properly--or for the game to progress at normal speed. No glitches. No bugs that I have noticed (because they get patched before I even notice they are there).

    And I play on a PC. God forbid I should be a Mac user!!

    I don't expect a bug-free game. I expect a working game. Four years down the road none of us should still be dealing with this.
  • dreamsong1968dreamsong1968 Posts: 4,473 Member
    edited July 2013
    Well with any trailer it'll be stylized and edited like crazy. I'm sure you can do that stuff, but it won't be *quite* as dramatic as the trailer. It'll still be darn close I think. The Sims 3 trailer was just about on point.

    At best it will be a "movie" similar to the cutaways we had in TS2 or the start-up screen. At worst there will be blatant things like Grim (who you can't have in your game unless you like ISSUES) riding on a horse.

    People keep going back after TS2 for their example, watch the Sims 3 launch trailer again.

    I pointed to TS2 for an example of the kind of cutaways that were used there--and in the start up of this game. Not to say that the TS2 trailer contained false advertising.

    False advertising--btw--isn't just about trailers, commercials, and magazine ads. It includes the information on the box about game specs and performance. The assumption when you purchase a piece of software is that it will run at the specs advertised--without needing to upgrade to better than advertised hardware, purchase additional software or operating systems, or wait for a generous modder to save your sorry...game.
  • SalemSalem Posts: 316 New Member
    edited July 2013
    lovcat wrote:

    Didn't say without bugs, but "relatively bug-free." Frankly, unless you want to give me that phone for free I can't afford it. I spent all of my money on this game!!!! :wink::wink::lol:

    I'm just saying the common misconception is that some games have no bugs. This isn't true. All games have bugs, it's just that not everyone who owns or plays the game will experience the same bugs. Things are dependent on hardware/drivers/state of the computer/or the combination of actions they're doing within the game.

    I have a bug in IP where I cannot get mermaid kelp from a mermaid. Does everyone have this bug? No. Why do I have this bug? I don't know. Just happens.

    So you didn't want people to jump on you about the use of "most" vs. "all", but...OK...

    What I would like to know is why you can install IP--and I am playing a base game that hard crashes regularly--on a way beyond system specs computer. You missed my point entirely.

    The first misconception (false advertising) is that they are going to release a game that will work at minimum (or anything close) specs.

    Example: I play CivV. I start the game. It loads/updates. I open my save. I play. I save when I need to save. It doesn't crash. I don't have to spend half-a-day or more looking for work-arounds. I don't have to install mods in order for the features to work properly--or for the game to progress at normal speed. No glitches. No bugs that I have noticed (because they get patched before I even notice they are there).

    And I play on a PC. God forbid I should be a Mac user!!

    I don't expect a bug-free game. I expect a working game. Four years down the road none of us should still be dealing with this.

    I agree another form of deception.

    Because of a faulty bug ridden game I stopped playing months ago - gave up!

    There was no fixes and why should I be yelling at my desktop after it crashed AGAIN 'I paid money for you so work'

    Or playing away only to find I can't save anything!

    And my computer is way above minimum spec's and I too play many other games that continuously give the enjoyment without the frustrations - do I like them better than the Sims - No not really but unfortunately I have no choice to play my favourite.

  • KitKat383838KitKat383838 Posts: 1,405 New Member
    edited July 2013
    Wow I completely forgot about that Sims 2 trailer...not accurate at ALL! Are companies even ALLOWED to do that? There's a difference between exaggerating features (like in the Sims 3 trailer were the empress of evil had a bunch of rainbow people running on treadmills) and simply showing things that can't happen in a game. It'll be kind of frustrating if that's what happens with the Sims 4 trailer...but oh well, I guess :?.
  • SalemSalem Posts: 316 New Member
    edited July 2013
    Yeah I get that the Sims 3 have been closer to reality but I could point out heaps of scenario’s that you just can not do in that series as well.

    And who ever said it was 'right' that 'this industry' could falsely advertise a game - be it in a trailer - in the minimum specs - be it for entertainment - be it for just the fun of it!

    That information is a bid part of what the public goes on when deciding to pre-purchase.

    To over dramatize what you can actually achieve in game or sell a game on the pretence that your operating system can actually play it and fail to meet those expectation is leading us blind.

    I love looking for the small details and I am excited to get a game to create what I have seen - I get sold on the possibilities!

    I am a sucker :?

  • AlexRoz9AlexRoz9 Posts: 309 New Member
    edited July 2013
    In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, good grief! Are we really worried about the accuracy of the trailer? Seriously, trailers are almost always inaccurate regardless of whether they're for games, movies or something else entirely. Unless there's a disclaimer on the screen that says "actual gameplay footage," there's a good chance that what you're watching will be pre-rendered, and not indicative of gameplay whatsoever. When the material isn't pre-rendered, it's usually taken from early builds that aren't final, and may include concepts that are abandoned long before anyone ever sees the trailer.
    False advertising--btw--isn't just about trailers, commercials, and magazine ads. It includes the information on the box about game specs and performance. The assumption when you purchase a piece of software is that it will run at the specs advertised--without needing to upgrade to better than advertised hardware, purchase additional software or operating systems, or wait for a generous modder to save your sorry...game.

    Dreamsong1968, you're confusing false/misleading/deceptive advertising with what's known as "puffery." A pre-rendered trailer with no actual gameplay footage is pure-puffery. No average person could reasonably believe that they're looking at an actual game, so the trailer doesn't constitute false advertising, which is illegal. Inaccurate system specs and actual advertisements (regardless of whether they're in the form of print, video, or something else entirely,) on the other hand are another story entirely. Inaccurate system specs constitute deceptive advertising, because they directly influence a consumers decision to purchase a game. Advertisements can use puffery—a form of over-exaggeration—but they can't make false/misleading/deceptive statements that could reasonably be believed to be true. For example, now that EA has stated that The Sims 4 will be a "single-player offline experience," they can't just reverse course and decide to implement SimCity–style DRM the day the game launches; to do so would constitute deceptive advertising, and would swiftly lead to a lawsuit. This is also true of software with misleading or wildly inaccurate system specs.
    Wow I completely forgot about that Sims 2 trailer...not accurate at ALL! Are companies even ALLOWED to do that? There's a difference between exaggerating features (like in the Sims 3 trailer were the empress of evil had a bunch of rainbow people running on treadmills) and simply showing things that can't happen in a game. It'll be kind of frustrating if that's what happens with the Sims 4 trailer...but oh well, I guess :?.

    KitKat383838, to answer your question, yes, companies are allowed to have wildly inaccurate trailers for games. Trailers are generally created from material that isn't final, so it's largely believed that the average person would never purchase a game based solely on a trailer, nor would they purchase a movie ticket based solely on the initial teaser trailer. Without final material to work with, the people designing trailers are often left with a good deal of guesswork on their hands. See if you can find the first teaser trailer for Star Trek: First Contact. It was created before filming of the aforementioned movie had begun, and as a result, it doesn't contain a single frame of footage from that film. Instead, it's cobbled together from various space battle sequences spanning the previous films and TV shows, with some CGI inter–cut between the stock footage. (Subsequent trailers began incorporating actual footage from the film.) Given that The Sims 2's development was supposedly thrown off the rails as the result of a fire, it's quite possible that the trailer was indicative of the direction the game was originally heading in before features had to be cut to keep it on schedule. However, it's also possible that the trailer was developed before any code was finalized, and as a result, the trailer is wildly inaccurate. Also, just because footage was shot for a movie, or actual gameplay footage was recorded for a trailer, the fact that said footage makes it into the trailer doesn't necessarily mean it'll make it into the film or game. Sometimes films have major scenes that are reworked or just flat-out removed because something changes that causes them to no longer fit well with the film. (In some cases they're simply cut for time.) In the case of games, a change in play style, or difficulty implementing certain concepts can lead to features or entire levels being omitted.

    Early advertisements for The Sims 3 mentioned that your Sims could potentially die if they were struck by another Sim's automobile. There are a slew of reasons why this feature may not have made it into the final game though. The first that comes to mind is that it may have been too easy to abuse; people were already drowning their Sims by removing pool ladders or creating "door-less boxes of doom" that caused Sims to starve. (The Sims 3 put an end to the pool ladder shenanigans, but it's still possible to create the "door-less boxes of doom.") Now add vehicular homicide as an option into the game, and it's quite probable that someone would wipe out an entire town by having one Sim run everybody else over. Essentially, you've gone from The Sims 3 to Grand Theft Sims depending on how the feature functioned. (Granted, doing this with a Sim that has the "evil" and "insane" traits would probably be hilarious the first time around.) The second reason this might have been omitted is that it had to be dropped when EA decided to drop the possibility of car wrecks and allowed cars to magically drive through each other. The ability to run over Sims might have been tied to the ability to crash your Sim's car. A third reason might just be that Sim's made for bad drivers, (after all, they do drive through each others cars quite often,) and even when you tried to keep them from doing so, they wound up running each other over every time they got onto the road. It's also possible that the feature just took up too much memory and didn't add anything to the overall gameplay experience. For whatever reason though, the feature was dropped because something about it wasn't working out, even though EA mentioned it in an early magazine interview. (I honestly can't remember which magazine though, but I think it might have been "Computer Games Magazine.")
    And I play on a PC. God forbid I should be a Mac user!!

    I don't expect a bug-free game. I expect a working game. Four years down the road none of us should still be dealing with this.

    Dreamsong1968, I couldn't agree more with you. I honestly am quite disappointed with EA's handling of the "Mac version" of this game. The simple fact that it's a Windows game in a Cider wrapper is inexcusable, especially when that seems to be the cause of many Mac–related problems. Still, as a Mac user whose played the game on a Windows PC, I have to admit that it doesn't seem as if Windows users have had a much better experience with The Sims 3. You hit the nail on the head when you said that "I don't expect a bug–free game. I expect a working game." This is exactly how I feel, and it's flat–out ridiculous that this game perpetually causes my Mac Pro that far exceeds every minimum system spec to crash to its desktop. (And yes, I said Mac Pro, as in the tower, not the laptop.) My Mac Pro has no problem belting out giant files in Adobe After Effects, rendering large HD videos in mere minutes, or performing other processor–intensive tasks, but The Sims 3 causes it to go totally Titanic on me. It'd be one thing if this was July of '09 and the game was still pretty new, but as you said, it's been out for four years, and a laundry–list of game–breaking bugs is simply inexcusable at this point.

    I truly hope that The Sims 4 will benefit from the mistakes of TS3, rather than repeat them. A native Mac version is a must, as is a severe reduction in the quantity and severity of bugs. If EA wants to perpetually hit me up for expansion/stuff packs again, TS4 is going to need to be a lot more functional than TS3 was. Likewise, I'm not touching the game if it's going to use SecuROM; I have no problem buying a DVD–ROM copy if that's the workaround, but I'm not installing anything with SecuROM on my system, and I know I'm not the only person who feels this way. Personally, I'd rather EA focus on making TS4 an excellent game rather than giving it an accurate trailer if I have to choose between one or the other.
  • SalemSalem Posts: 316 New Member
    edited July 2013
    Sorry AlexRoz9 I really do not agree but your opinion is fine but not necessary correct - really movie trailers are always inaccurate? I have seen a fair few in my time and never could quote that.

    And I am a person who would buy the game after watching a trailer and expect it to be that way. I trust the company to be feeding me good accurate information that I am going to come close to experience.

    I am not afraid to admit I would know nothing about the false aspects some companies go about advertising/trailers. I would naively except to be protected from such practises.

    And if you notice NOW EA have a disclaimer on trailers 'Not all images representative of gameplay' which is the legal means to warn those who may not be as wise as some.

    And BTW a fire does not excuse the massive differences in what you saw and what you got 'just because they had to meet a release deadline' Delay the release date... that happened in TS3 just because they needed to add more polish - everyone would understand the reason and I'm sure it would have been worth the wait to get that sort of gameplay or even something close. And a fire caused them to lose years of work? Not likely.

    But my hope is... that we do not get any false advertising in the TS4 trailers. If I was going to buy it on-line that is what I would be base my purchase decision on.


  • LeGardePourpreLeGardePourpre Posts: 14,022 Member
    edited July 2013
    Salem wrote:
    Remember The Sims 2 official EA trailer…

    Kids were causing chaos, the house was wrecked, curtains all screwed up, pictures hanging skewwhiff . Kids running around hitting furniture and Dad with bats. Swinging off the fan light. Swinging on the floor plant. Up on the counters, tipping over the couch.

    Totally nothing like the game – you couldn’t do anything like this.

    I know advertising ultimate purpose is to leave the consumers with a sense of curiosity, wanting more, but to portray a gaming experience which is totally impossible to achieve and irrelative to what you actually get is a major deception and rip off.

    I hope The Sims 4 trailers and promotions inspire us in truth.

    Unlike the EP4 Generations trailer, it was very hot and funny !

  • EuanSimEuanSim Posts: 2,345 Member
    edited July 2013
    Loads of companies false advertise with trailers. Take the Dead Island trailer, for example. The game was NOTHING like it whatsoever.

    Sadly I bet EA will do it with TS4 too.
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