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Brainstorming how a Sims Subscription Model could work

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simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
Guiding principles
  • Opt-in only
  • You pay a low monthly fee and earn equivalent tokens each month worth what you pay
  • You can redeem these tokens for the packs you want
  • Some tiny, occasional Sims Delivery Express type of CAS or Build/Buy objects to encourage subscriptions

Example
You pay $5 each month and earn 5 tokens each month. Packs on paper cost:
EP: 40 tokens
GP: 20 tokens
SP: 10 tokens
Kits: 5 tokens

You earn these tokens from being a subscriber and can redeem them to buy packs, whichever ones you want. You are never forced to buy anything. But perhaps to reward you from giving EA a consistent subscription revenue stream, you can buy these back for less than their paper cost (i.e. on sale). Think buying an EP on release for 35 tokens instead of 40 dollars. You also happen to get a few new objects that month. You can only get those objects from being a subscriber in that month i.e. no retroactive obtainment of special objects.

Target Customers
  • Customers who buy most or all packs and would appreciate discounts
  • Customers who wouldn't mind a small fee because they are engaged with the Sims community and would appreciate regular accrual of credits with which to redeem packs

Thoughts? Personally, the only way I'm accepting a subscription model is if it offers me discounts and choice in redeeming which packs I want.

Comments

  • kaiwrysimskaiwrysims Posts: 1,487 Member
    That doesn't sound too bad but I wouldn't like if there was content exclusive to subscribers
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  • simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
    edited April 11
    kaiwrysims wrote: »
    That doesn't sound too bad but I wouldn't like if there was content exclusive to subscribers

    Yeah. Subscriber-exclusive items would certainly boost the number of subscriptions but also p*** off the fanbase.
  • Seera1024Seera1024 Posts: 3,585 Member
    The non-retro aspect would be a killer for me on a subscription model.

    Why should the player who just discovered Sims because they just turned the appropriate age be forbidden from having an item just because they weren't playing the game a month ago?

    Also means that a player doesn't feel pressured to keep a subscription up they can't afford and they aren't actively playing the game at the moment due to real life issues.

    My suggestions:

    Tokens are fine, but of the packs you can only buy kits with tokens (larger packs are enough work that they should be bought with real money outside of things earned from a subscription.

    Items start off being the free monthly item(s) - number/type dependent on sub type. The next month (or maybe a few months later), you can buy them with tokens. After a year or so, they can be bought with real money as a say "2022 Subscriber Items Kit" with the price being appropriate. Any price difference can be argued to be the early access fee like what should happen with CC.

  • simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
    edited April 12
    Seera1024 wrote: »
    The non-retro aspect would be a killer for me on a subscription model.

    Why should the player who just discovered Sims because they just turned the appropriate age be forbidden from having an item just because they weren't playing the game a month ago?

    Also means that a player doesn't feel pressured to keep a subscription up they can't afford and they aren't actively playing the game at the moment due to real life issues.

    My suggestions:

    Tokens are fine, but of the packs you can only buy kits with tokens (larger packs are enough work that they should be bought with real money outside of things earned from a subscription.

    Items start off being the free monthly item(s) - number/type dependent on sub type. The next month (or maybe a few months later), you can buy them with tokens. After a year or so, they can be bought with real money as a say "2022 Subscriber Items Kit" with the price being appropriate. Any price difference can be argued to be the early access fee like what should happen with CC.

    I agree with all of this except only being able to redeem tokens for kits. Because for me, the tokens ARE real money since they're just like a virtual currency akin to SimPoints. I would want to buy EPs and GPs because I like gameplay in general over CAS and Build/Buy. If I can only redeem for kits and have to pay even more money to buy packs separately, I would never subscribe to such a model.
  • crocobauracrocobaura Posts: 4,970 Member
    I am not sure what we're supposed to subscribe to here. You get more discount if you buy during sales, with subscription system you can get at most 60 dollars worth of discount, so assuming you've already subscribed for a year you can pay fully in tokens for an EP and GP. Last year we had one EP and one GP, and the year before that we had two EPs and one GP. Unless you buy every pack fully in tokens, there's not much else to spend your tokens on. They released monthly kit packs for the past year so almost like a subscription, except kits you can buy whenever you want to but you cannot get subscriber content retroactively. So you basically want to subscribe to 5 dollars worth of kits, and not everyone wants all the kits, and some exclusive content every month. We already have those Sim Delivery Express type additional content, why would you want to make it exclusive and retroactively unavailable?

  • spend4zenspend4zen Posts: 244 Member
    I am not so sure a subscription type game would work for Me. I would not be happy paying for tokens to redeem on unknown kits, unknown content, and Unknown EP's that are still to come in the future. What would happen if I paid for a full six months to a year and had all kinds of tokens and Maxis/EA does not release anything I am interested in purchasing? I prefer the way the game is set up now. I can purchase the packs I want when I feel I can afford it and I am interested in playing. Like another poster said, there has been a dry spell of content that I am not at all interested in and will probably never purchase so meanwhile I have been catching up on EP's and other content I passed on years ago. A subscription service really limits your freedom.
  • logionlogion Posts: 4,150 Member
    That would probably not be popular seeing that Maxis seems to release whatever they like and when they like, so imagine someone paying a subscription fee and then Maxis releases nothing but kits for half a year.
  • SheepilingSheepiling Posts: 412 Member
    Guiding principles
    • Opt-in only
    • You pay a low monthly fee and earn equivalent tokens each month worth what you pay
    • You can redeem these tokens for the packs you want
    • Some tiny, occasional Sims Delivery Express type of CAS or Build/Buy objects to encourage subscriptions

    Example
    You pay $5 each month and earn 5 tokens each month. Packs on paper cost:
    EP: 40 tokens
    GP: 20 tokens
    SP: 10 tokens
    Kits: 5 tokens

    You earn these tokens from being a subscriber and can redeem them to buy packs, whichever ones you want. You are never forced to buy anything. But perhaps to reward you from giving EA a consistent subscription revenue stream, you can buy these back for less than their paper cost (i.e. on sale). Think buying an EP on release for 35 tokens instead of 40 dollars. You also happen to get a few new objects that month. You can only get those objects from being a subscriber in that month i.e. no retroactive obtainment of special objects.

    Target Customers
    • Customers who buy most or all packs and would appreciate discounts
    • Customers who wouldn't mind a small fee because they are engaged with the Sims community and would appreciate regular accrual of credits with which to redeem packs

    Thoughts? Personally, the only way I'm accepting a subscription model is if it offers me discounts and choice in redeeming which packs I want.

    That sounds extremely nice and fair, so I'm pretty sure we won't get anything similar to that. This is EA we're talking about :neutral:

    It'll most likely be like playstation plus where you're paying a monthly subscription just to have access to online multiplayer mode. Then there will probably be lots of overpriced microtransactions for a small amount of content like they have in Sims Mobile right now.

    I've been an MMORPG player for a long time and have witnessed the decline in quality across multiple online games so far. If Sims 5 is going to be multiplayer and subscription-based, I have no hope for it. I don't trust EA to make something amazing like Stardew Valley. Greedy companies ruin their games.

    It would be nice if Maxis/EA actually proved me wrong, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
  • simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
    crocobaura wrote: »
    I am not sure what we're supposed to subscribe to here. You get more discount if you buy during sales, with subscription system you can get at most 60 dollars worth of discount, so assuming you've already subscribed for a year you can pay fully in tokens for an EP and GP. Last year we had one EP and one GP, and the year before that we had two EPs and one GP. Unless you buy every pack fully in tokens, there's not much else to spend your tokens on. They released monthly kit packs for the past year so almost like a subscription, except kits you can buy whenever you want to but you cannot get subscriber content retroactively. So you basically want to subscribe to 5 dollars worth of kits, and not everyone wants all the kits, and some exclusive content every month. We already have those Sim Delivery Express type additional content, why would you want to make it exclusive and retroactively unavailable?

    They are just example numbers. It's just a thought experiment. If this were a thing, it would be fine-tuned to make sense.
  • lisasc360lisasc360 Posts: 15,946 Member
    Yeah, no thanks. If they make TS5 like that, then I will continue to play TS2/3/4 as I already pay for a monthly subscription with World of Warcraft and have no desire to pay for other games that I don't play that often like I do with WoW. So I will refuse to buy a Sims game that makes their players pay a sub to be able to play their game unless they have the sub option like they do with Star Wars: The Old Republic.
  • StormkeepStormkeep Posts: 7,632 Member
    edited April 12
    I'd rather pay more to pay for exactly what I want, when I want then be tied into any kind of subscription service. Any game that has a subscription service, even if it is opt-in rather than required also pretty much always has some kind of content that is exclusively available to subscribers. Which ultimately makes me feel pressured to subscribe. My solution is to not play those games at all.

    So, I hope this is not the direction they go with the franchise.
    This post will be edited by StormKeep at some point.
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  • Seera1024Seera1024 Posts: 3,585 Member
    Seera1024 wrote: »
    The non-retro aspect would be a killer for me on a subscription model.

    Why should the player who just discovered Sims because they just turned the appropriate age be forbidden from having an item just because they weren't playing the game a month ago?

    Also means that a player doesn't feel pressured to keep a subscription up they can't afford and they aren't actively playing the game at the moment due to real life issues.

    My suggestions:

    Tokens are fine, but of the packs you can only buy kits with tokens (larger packs are enough work that they should be bought with real money outside of things earned from a subscription.

    Items start off being the free monthly item(s) - number/type dependent on sub type. The next month (or maybe a few months later), you can buy them with tokens. After a year or so, they can be bought with real money as a say "2022 Subscriber Items Kit" with the price being appropriate. Any price difference can be argued to be the early access fee like what should happen with CC.

    I agree with all of this except only being able to redeem tokens for kits. Because for me, the tokens ARE real money since they're just like a virtual currency akin to SimPoints. I would want to buy EPs and GPs because I like gameplay in general over CAS and Build/Buy. If I can only redeem for kits and have to pay even more money to buy packs separately, I would never subscribe to such a model.

    Because the tokens are from the subscription service.

    The GP's and EP's deserve money to be spent for that purpose only.

    EA deserves to know which packs are worth it to players. With tokens the token system complicates things: are they buying them because they want the pack or because they have nothing else they want to spend tokens on.

    The kits are basically exactly the type of stuff I would expect to see in the token system. Mostly clothes and build items with the occasional item that adds gameplay.

    It would also mean that anything else they put in wouldn't be bought with tokens most likely: because EA's just going to release and GP or EP that will take my tokens so I'll hold off and buy them with those.
  • simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
    Seera1024 wrote: »
    Seera1024 wrote: »
    The non-retro aspect would be a killer for me on a subscription model.

    Why should the player who just discovered Sims because they just turned the appropriate age be forbidden from having an item just because they weren't playing the game a month ago?

    Also means that a player doesn't feel pressured to keep a subscription up they can't afford and they aren't actively playing the game at the moment due to real life issues.

    My suggestions:

    Tokens are fine, but of the packs you can only buy kits with tokens (larger packs are enough work that they should be bought with real money outside of things earned from a subscription.

    Items start off being the free monthly item(s) - number/type dependent on sub type. The next month (or maybe a few months later), you can buy them with tokens. After a year or so, they can be bought with real money as a say "2022 Subscriber Items Kit" with the price being appropriate. Any price difference can be argued to be the early access fee like what should happen with CC.

    I agree with all of this except only being able to redeem tokens for kits. Because for me, the tokens ARE real money since they're just like a virtual currency akin to SimPoints. I would want to buy EPs and GPs because I like gameplay in general over CAS and Build/Buy. If I can only redeem for kits and have to pay even more money to buy packs separately, I would never subscribe to such a model.

    Because the tokens are from the subscription service.

    The GP's and EP's deserve money to be spent for that purpose only.

    EA deserves to know which packs are worth it to players. With tokens the token system complicates things: are they buying them because they want the pack or because they have nothing else they want to spend tokens on.

    The kits are basically exactly the type of stuff I would expect to see in the token system. Mostly clothes and build items with the occasional item that adds gameplay.

    It would also mean that anything else they put in wouldn't be bought with tokens most likely: because EA's just going to release and GP or EP that will take my tokens so I'll hold off and buy them with those.

    I wouldn't want it this way.
  • OldeseadoggeOldeseadogge Posts: 3,910 Member
    Am as excited about a subscription service as I am with paying taxes. The current 'system', flawed as it is, is better. Pay only for what you want, not a continual drain.
  • CororonCororon Posts: 4,011 Member
    No thanks. Subscription is a dealbreaker for me. For me to buy a game I want to pay once and be able to play it without being online.

    Subscription is fine for multiplayer online games, because you need to connect to a server to play, but not for single player games like The Sims.

    I play Sims 3, and I'm happy that I have it on physical discs and the super patch and all my saves, mods, CC and downloads on backup drives. The game and my sims are important to me, and I don't want to be dependent on companies and servers I have no control over when I have to re-install the game on this or on a new computer.
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  • LeGardePourpreLeGardePourpre Posts: 12,801 Member
    edited April 19
    In my case, it couldn't work.

    The only reason which could push me to subscribe would be the warranty of new content twice a month and new worlds like TS3 Store did.
  • LeGardePourpreLeGardePourpre Posts: 12,801 Member
    edited April 20
    Note : the monthly packs are a kind of $5 subscription.

    + $5 Stuff Pack (or $0 on sale)
    + $15 Game Pack (or $10 on sale)
    + $35 Expansion Pack (or $15 on sale)


    And $5 x 12 months = $60, it wouldn't be enough.

    2015 : 8 packs, $160
    2016 : 7 packs, $110
    2017 : 6 packs, $110
    2018 : 5 packs, $120
    2019 : 5 packs, $130
    2020 : 5 packs, $120
    2021 : 12 packs, $115
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,157 Member
    thats a terrible idea if i went to buy the game i went to pay once no fee or monthly amount and pay each packs ep and kits like the sims 4 seperatly no monthly fees or hidden fees attach so i fully disagree with this
    If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery



    Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :

    1923-2016 mamie :'(
  • Calico45Calico45 Posts: 1,811 Member
    edited April 21
    I want discounts a lot less than proper ownership. That is what usually burns me about them. Pay a sub for five years and the day you cancel you have nothing to show for it. There needs to be some sort of rent to own mechanic model.

    So, after so much time or on certain renewal dates, you need to be able to pick packs to own for good.

    And of course, optional. I don't like subs or deferred payments which end up costing more. However, I understand debt as a societal tool. I just don't like it's use for something as frivolous as entertainment, personally.
  • simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
    thats a terrible idea if i went to buy the game i went to pay once no fee or monthly amount and pay each packs ep and kits like the sims 4 seperatly no monthly fees or hidden fees attach so i fully disagree with this

    I don't think you understand what I'm saying. And please spare us the attitude. This is a hypothetical discussion.
  • JunkyPoemJunkyPoem Posts: 123 Member
    edited April 21
    Not sure if your idea would work. If Maxis/EA does something similar, then there goes the franchise. Appreciate your efforts, however.

    But this 20yr franchise is made up of an entirely different demographic. The Sims community is just as unique as the genre it ushered in. drastic/slight change is not usually handled well.

    All-access Content vs Tokens for Packs
    Entertaining Gameplay vs Easy Objectives, Stale Interactions, Boring Environment, No Story Progression
    Excellent Performance vs Err codes, Bugs, Glitches

    Then maybe a Sims 5 monthly sub is possible or could even be successful.
    Post edited by JunkyPoem on
  • friendlysimmersfriendlysimmers Posts: 7,157 Member
    thats a terrible idea if i went to buy the game i went to pay once no fee or monthly amount and pay each packs ep and kits like the sims 4 seperatly no monthly fees or hidden fees attach so i fully disagree with this

    I don't think you understand what I'm saying. And please spare us the attitude. This is a hypothetical discussion.

    i apoligize to say this but @simmerorigin but you need to realise not everyone can afford or went as a player to pay such a fee you also need no matter how diffrent opinions are learn to respect opinions of others thats what forums are made for so that players can post there opinion on the subject and as a player i am againts that idea 1000%
    If you went the sims5 to remain offline feel free to sign this petition http://chng.it/gtfHPhHK please note that it is also to keep the gallery



    Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :

    1923-2016 mamie :'(
  • simmeroriginsimmerorigin Posts: 288 Member
    edited April 21
    thats a terrible idea if i went to buy the game i went to pay once no fee or monthly amount and pay each packs ep and kits like the sims 4 seperatly no monthly fees or hidden fees attach so i fully disagree with this

    I don't think you understand what I'm saying. And please spare us the attitude. This is a hypothetical discussion.

    i apoligize to say this but @simmerorigin but you need to realise not everyone can afford or went as a player to pay such a fee you also need no matter how diffrent opinions are learn to respect opinions of others thats what forums are made for so that players can post there opinion on the subject and as a player i am againts that idea 1000%

    If you read my post it would be an opt-in system and this is all theoretical. I just made this post because I think there is a high likelihood that EA will implement a subscription service so I wanted to brainstorm. I am not against you voicing your opinions. I posted this knowing it would be controversial. I am against your harsh language. It's not a "terrible" idea. You can explain why it doesn't work for you without shooting it down. It's not a terrible idea. It's a controversial one. Maybe there is a language barrier or something but I hope that this is clear.
  • MoonCrossWarrior22MoonCrossWarrior22 Posts: 665 Member
    edited April 21
    If sims 5 got a MMO type of mode; I recommend that they make it possible to pay without needing to use your ID aka credit card or bank card for consoles, like we buy DLC's with playstation cards when we turn it into playstation cash which helps a lot so if we are going to do monthly subscription for MMO mode; I recommend allowing us to use playstation money to pay to play other than using our ID for it because I do not trust the internet when it comes to my ID due to hackers and what not... I wish Square Enix did this for FF14 btw, I don't play FF14 because I can't use PS cash to pay to play. D:

    I still think the game should have both single player mode and online mode as usual.
    Best option is to do it the Square enix way when it comes to the subscription model but to make it easy to pay to play which is what SE lacks atm.

    DLC's will work the same as usual, they will work for both MMO mode and single player mode once you buy it. :)
    There, I fixed all the typos.

    Edit: I should of said online mode and offline mode, but whatever. >.>
    Post edited by MoonCrossWarrior22 on
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  • Seera1024Seera1024 Posts: 3,585 Member
    thats a terrible idea if i went to buy the game i went to pay once no fee or monthly amount and pay each packs ep and kits like the sims 4 seperatly no monthly fees or hidden fees attach so i fully disagree with this

    I don't think you understand what I'm saying. And please spare us the attitude. This is a hypothetical discussion.

    i apoligize to say this but @simmerorigin but you need to realise not everyone can afford or went as a player to pay such a fee you also need no matter how diffrent opinions are learn to respect opinions of others thats what forums are made for so that players can post there opinion on the subject and as a player i am againts that idea 1000%

    If you read my post it would be an opt-in system and this is all theoretical. I just made this post because I think there is a high likelihood that EA will implement a subscription service so I wanted to brainstorm. I am not against you voicing your opinions. I posted this knowing it would be controversial. I am against your harsh language. It's not a "terrible" idea. You can explain why it doesn't work for you without shooting it down. It's not a terrible idea. It's a controversial one. Maybe there is a language barrier or something but I hope that this is clear.

    In your opinion it's not a terrible idea. But in friendlysimmers' mind it is a terrible idea. Neither of you are wrong.

    Just because this is a hypothetical discussion of what EA should do, doesn't mean that players can't come in and state that nothing would make a subscription service for the game something they would want - regardless of if it's optional or not.

    And let's not kid ourselves, EA are greedy. They will make it so that people are highly incentivized and rewarded for doing an optional subscription.
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